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WELCOME EVERYBODY.[CALL TO ORDER]
UH, GOOD EVENING.WELCOME TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD.
YOU CAN JOIN THE MEETING IN PERSON, UH, AT 5 5 5 5 PERIMETER DRIVE, AND ALSO ACCESS THE MEETING VIA, VIA LIVE STREAM ON THE CITY'S CITY OF DUBLIN'S WEBSITE.
WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, INCLUDING PUBLIC COMMENT ON CASES.
THE MEETING PROCEDURE FOR EACH CASE THIS EVENING WILL BEGIN WITH A PRESENTATION GIVEN BY THE APPLICANT, FOLLOWED BY A STAFF PRESENTATION.
THE BOARD WILL THEN ASK CLARIFYING QUESTIONS OF BOTH THE APPLICANT AND STAFF, FOLLOWED BY PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE DELIBERATING ON EACH CASE.
ANYBODY WISHING TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE INVITED TO COME FORWARD TO THE PODIUM.
FOR EACH APPLICATION, PLEASE ENSURE THE GREEN LINE IS ON.
STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
AND WE RECCO WE, WE, WE REQUEST YOU KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES OR LESS.
AND AS WE DO, WE START WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I PLEDGE IN THE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE TWO, THE REPUBLIC OVER WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, LIBERTY, AND JUSTICE.
JAMIE, COULD YOU CALL THE ROLL? YES, MR. KOTTER.
I'LL MOVE TO ACCEPT THE DOCUMENTS INTO THE RECORD AND APPROVE THE MINUTES.
APPROVE THE, THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 24 MEETING.
IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, MS. PAT MCDANIEL? YES.
UH, AS A CASE PROCEDURE, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR REVIEW OF CONSTRUCTION AND MODIFICATIONS OR ALTERATIONS TO ANY SITE IN THE AREA SUBJECT TO ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW UNDER THE PROVISION OF THE ZONING CODE SECTION 1 53 0.170.
THE BOARD HAS THE DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY ON THESE CASES.
ANYBODY WHO INTENDS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON THESE CASES MUST BE SWORN IN.
SO ANYBODY WHO WILL BE, ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO ADDRESS, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
UM, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD? GREAT.
[Case #26-040ARB-MPR ]
FIRST CASE IS, UM, NUMBER 26 0 4 0 MPR.UM, IT'S A-H-D-H-R, THE, THE ADDRESS IN THE H IN THE HDHR 61 SOUTH RIVERVIEW CONKLIN RESIDENCE PROPOSAL FOR THE EXTERIOR MODIFICATION TO AN EXISTING BUILDING IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE POINT, UH, ZERO ONE OR THE 0.13 ACRE SITE IS ZONED HDHR, HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, AND IS LOCATED NORTHWEST OF EBERLY HILL AND SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET INTERSECTION.
SO WE'LL START WITH THE, THE STAFF PRESENTATION.
ANTHONY, IF YOU START AND JUST FROM THE BOARD, UH, CONGRATULATIONS ON PRO YOUR PROMOTION.
AND I KNOW THIS IS YOUR FIRST, UH, YOUR FIRST, UM, YOUR, YOUR FIRST TIME, UH, UH, BEING DOING THE STAFF PRESENTATION.
SO CONGRATULATIONS AND WELCOME.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIRMAN.
IT IS A PRIVILEGE AND AN HONOR.
AND GOOD EVENING BOARD MEMBERS, THIS REQUEST IS FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF A NEW EXTERIOR PAINT SCHEME AT 61 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET.
THE SITE IS 0.13 ACRES LOCATED NORTHWEST OF THE SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET AND EBERLY HILL INTERSECTION AND ZONE HDHR, HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
HERE'S SOME PHOTOS SHOWING THE EXISTING CONDITIONS IN THE EXISTING PAINT COLORS.
UH, THE EXISTING BODY PAINT COLOR IS GRAY AND THE TRIM WINDOW COLOR IS WHITE.
UH, THIS HOME WAS BUILT IN 1894 ACCORDING TO THE HISTORIC AND CULTURAL ASSESSMENT OF 2017 AND IS CLASSIFIED AS VERNACULAR STYLE.
IT'S A REVERSE SALT BOX FORM WITH ORLE WINDOWS.
THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS DOCUMENT WAS ADOPTED BY THE BOARD IN 2022.
THIS ALLOWS FOR ADMIN APPROVAL VIA AAS FOR PRESELECTED COLORS FROM THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS DOCUMENT, UM, OWNERS MAY SEEK OTHER COLORS VIA NPR AND THE BOARD HAS, UH, THE RIGHT TO APPROVE OTHER COLORS.
THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES MENTION THAT IN SECTION 4.6 A HISTORIC BUILDINGS SHOULD BE PAINTED BASED ON ORIGINAL COLORS.
SECTION 4.6 B STATES WHERE ORIGINAL COLORS NOT KNOWN USE THE CONSTRUCTION TIME.
THIS IS THE EXACT APPROACH TAKEN IN THE PRE-APPROVED COLORS DOCUMENT.
SO HERE IS SOME OF THE RENDERINGS OF THE PROPOSED PAINT SCHEME AND SOME HISTORY ON HOW WE ARRIVED HERE BEFORE THE BOARD TODAY.
UH, THE RENDERING IS OF THE HOLMES FRONT FACADE.
THE BODY PAINT IS TAVERN CHARCOAL WITH THE
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TRIM AND WINDOWS IN TRICO BLACK.IN MAY, 2026, THE APPLICANT FILED FOR AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL FOR A NEW PAINT COLOR SCHEME.
AS SHOWN HERE, STAFF WAS NOT SUPPORTIVE AND PROVIDED OUR FEEDBACK CONSISTENT WITH THE PRE-APPROVED UH, PAINT COLORS DOCUMENT.
THE APPLICANT THEN ELECTED TO SUBMIT THE NPR APPLICATION TO BE HEARD HERE BY THE BOARD TODAY.
HERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL RENDERING SHOWING THE DETACHED GARAGE, WHICH IS ALSO INTENDED TO BE PAINTED IN THE SAME TWO COLORS.
TAVERN, CHARCOAL AND TRICORN BLACK.
TO BE CLEAR, THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW CRITERIA STAFF FINDS ONE MET WITH CONDITION THREE NOT MET, AND FOUR NOT APPLICABLE.
STAFF APPRECIATES THE APPLICANT'S INTENT TO IMPROVE THE STREET SCAPE AND RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH CONDITION TO SELECT AN EARLY AIR PAINT COLOR AND APPROVAL VIA AN AA TO BE REVIEWED BY STAFF.
UM, AS A REMINDER, THE APPLICANT MAY ALSO REPAINT THE HOME AND DETACH GARAGE USING THE EXISTING COLORS UNDER ORDINARY MAINTENANCE.
AND THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
ANTHONY, ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING TO CLARIFY FROM, FROM STAFF? GOOD.
UH, THE APPLICANT, DO YOU WANNA COME UP AND, AND, UH, STATE YOUR NAME AND UM, GIVE US SOME, SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION? HI, UH, MY NAME'S BRAD CONKLIN.
I'M AT 61 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET.
I APPRECIATE YOU ALL COMING IN HERE AND MEETING WITH ME.
I'M GLAD TO SEE THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE WHO'S GONNA PRESENT AND YOU'RE NOT JUST HERE FOR ME.
SO I, I'D LIKE TO PAINT, OBVIOUSLY WANT TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS ON MY HOUSE AND CHANGE THE COLOR OF THE PAINT.
I'VE NEVER BEEN FOND OF IT SINCE I BOUGHT THE HOUSE IN 2018.
UM, I THOUGHT I WAS GOING ABOUT IT THE PROPER WAY.
I WENT AND LOOKED AT ALL THE PRE-APPROVED COLORS.
I CHOSE COLORS THAT WERE INDEED PRE-APPROVED FOR THIS TIME ERA.
AND THE STYLE OF HOUSE HONESTLY DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE WHATSOEVER.
I THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE A SIMPLE APPLICATION.
YES, YOU'VE CHECKED ALL THE BOXES AND IN RETURN I WAS DENIED.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE RECOMMENDED COLORS, BUT ALSO YOU HAVE PRE-APPROVED COLORS THAT ARE ON THE LIST.
AND I CHOSE THESE PRE-APPROVED COLORS.
I'M NOT HERE ASKING YOU TO USE A COLOR THAT IS NOT ON YOUR PRE-APPROVED LIST FOR THAT TIME AND THAT STYLE OF HOUSE.
SO, AND ANOTHER ISSUE I HAVE IS THAT THE BUILDING BEHIND ME AT 54 SOUTH HIGH STREET WAS BUILT SIX YEARS LATER THAN ME.
SAME STYLE, ACTUALLY HAD TO COME TO A MEETING.
THE COLORS WERE DEEMED TOO DARK, BUT WAS ALSO APPROVED.
THOSE COLORS ARE DARKER THAN THE COLORS I'M ASKING TO BE APPROVED.
SO THERE'S A PRECEDENT SET THAT YOU DO ALLOW THESE DARKER COLORS.
I EVEN ASKED CAN I, CAN I PAINT MY HOUSE THOSE EXACT COLORS AND WAS DENIED THERE? WHICH I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT COULD BE POSSIBLE.
I THINK THE RENDERINGS LOOK GREAT.
I SPOKE TO ALL OF MY SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS BEFORE I EVEN CHOSE THESE COLORS, BEFORE I EVEN SUBMITTED MY APPLICATION.
EVEN WHEN I SUBMITTED IT, I WAS ASKED, HEY, CAN YOU SEND ME THE, THE, THE DIALOGUE WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS? WHICH I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WAS EVEN NECESSARY, IF IT WAS JUST GOING TO BE DENIED BASED UPON RECOMMENDED COLORS.
SO AGAIN, JUST GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, THOUGHT I DID ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, CORRECT.
AND I'M KIND OF SHOCKED THAT I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS, THIS PROCESS RIGHT NOW.
UM, WELL FIRST THING, THANK YOU FOR UPKEEPING THE HOUSE.
SO CERTAINLY THAT'S ONE OF OUR GOALS AND CERTAINLY THE CITY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE, THE, THE, THE PROPERTIES UP UPDATED OR UPKEPT.
SO I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THE REVIEW TO, TO PAINT IT.
SO DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I DO FOR STAFF? YEAH.
COULD UH, YOU CLARIFY UM, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT'S APPROVED AND WHAT'S BEING DENIED? WHAT ARE APPROVED COLORS? OH, SO YES.
AND, AND WHAT'S BEING DENIED? DENIED.
THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
SO THE APPROVED COLORS, WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR THOSE TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE LANGUAGE OUTLINED, AND I THINK IT'S SECTION 5.2.
OF THE PRE-APPROVED COLORS DOCUMENT.
SO THE LANGUAGE IN THAT STATES THAT THE EARLY ERA COLORS, THE, THE ERA SPANS 49 YEARS AND IT STATES THE EARLY ERA COLORS ARE TO BE WHITE OFF WHITE AND SOFT PASTELS SUCH AS GRAYS AND YELLOWS.
AND IT NAMES A FEW OTHER SPECIFIC COLORS THAT ARE NOTHING LIKE WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED.
SO THAT WAS THE BASIS THAT WE REVIEWED THIS ON AND MADE OUR RECOMMENDATION.
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DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? MM-HMMYEAH, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR STAFF ALSO.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, I, I'M SORRY I WASN'T AWARE OF THE ADDRESS BEHIND THIS, UH, UNIT, THIS HOUSE AND THE COLOR OF THAT AND THAT HAD BEEN APPROVED.
COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT FIRST OF ALL? AND UM, SECOND OF ALL, IF WE HAVE AN APPLICANT IN THE FUTURE, WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE AS FAR AS WHERE EARLY IS AND WHERE LATE IS? YEP.
UH, HAPPY TO SPEAK TO THE FIRST PART.
I'M NOT, I A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE ON THE ADDRESS, BUT THAT APPLICATION WAS APPROVED PRIOR TO THE ADOPTION OF THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS DOCUMENT.
UM, AND THAT'S ACTUALLY PART OF THE REASON THAT DOCUMENT WAS PUT TOGETHER AND ADOPTED WAS TO KIND OF AVOID SOME SUBJECTIVITY AND BACK AND FORTH AND CREATE SOME MORE CLEAR STANDARDS AND AGAIN, TO PRESERVE SOME OF THOSE CHARACTERISTICS THAT THE DISTRICT HAS LOST OVER TIME.
SO GOING FORWARD, TO ANSWER THE SECOND PART OF YOUR QUESTION, WE WOULD REMAIN CONSISTENT WITH THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS DOCUMENT.
AND THAT IS WHAT STAFF WOULD, UH, MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON.
I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF TOO.
SO THE COLORS THAT WOULD BE, UH, PRE-APPROVED IN THE CODE, THEY'RE INDICATED WITH BODY, IS THAT CORRECT? AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE APPROVED IN THE FULL PALLET LIST, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? MM-HMM
I KNOW THAT THERE ARE A FEW THAT HAVE BODY LISTED IN PARENTHESES AFTER.
SO MY INTERPRETATION OF THAT IS WHERE IT SPECIFIES BODY OR TRIM THAT IS THE APPROVED COLOR FOR THAT ASPECT OF THE HOME WHERE IT IS NOT.
THEN MY UNDERSTANDING WOULD BE YOU COULD USE IT ON TRIM BODY AND THEN AGAIN, THE SUPPORTING LANGUAGE WOULD STILL NEED TO ALIGN WITH THAT.
RIGHT? SO EVEN IF IT'S NOT SPECIFIED AND THE LANGUAGE SAYS COLORS STILL NEED TO BE SOFT, PASTELS WHITE, AND THERE'S A DARK COLOR THAT DOESN'T SPECIFY BODY TRIM, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, SASHES, THEN YOU WOULD DEFER TO THE LANGUAGE IN ITS INTENT.
SO THE TAVERN CHARCOAL UNDER THE BENJAMIN MOORE COLORS, IT DOESN'T SAY BODY OR TREMOR, SO IT COULD BE USED FOR BODY, BUT THE ISSUE IS THAT IT'S A DARKER GRAY, MORE APPROPRIATE FOR LATER ON IN THE PERIOD.
ANYBODY GOOD? DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? NOT FOR STAFF.
I HAVE A, UNLESS YOU HAVE ONE FOR STAFF
I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION TOO, AND I'M SORRY I'M LOSING MY VOICE, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL PHOTO OR THE CURRENT PHOTO TO THE PROPOSED, IT APPEARS THAT THE ROOF AS WELL IS RECOMMENDED? NO, THAT IS STAYING THE SAME.
BECAUSE TO ME THIS WAS READING RED VERSUS A DARK GRAY, SO I WASN'T SURE.
YEAH, THE, THE ROOF ISN'T ALL.
UH, JUST REMEMBER I AM REMEMBERING, UH, FOR STAFF, UH, YOU, YOU GUYS CITE PREVIOUS CASE 24 1 0 4 NPR, UH, AS PRECEDENT IN THIS CASE.
UH, CAN YOU DISCUSS THAT? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
I BELIEVE THE BODY COLOR THAT WAS PROPOSED WAS ACTUALLY EXACTLY THE SAME, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THE TAVERN CHARCOAL.
UM, BUT IN, IN THE MINUTES, WHICH WE INCLUDED IN OUR HISTORY DOCUMENT TO THE BOARD, UM, YOU GUYS HAD DISCUSSED AMONGST YOURSELVES AND DELIBERATED THAT THAT COLOR WAS NOT CONSISTENT BASED ON THE ERROR OF THE BUILDING AND MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO SELECT ONE FROM THE APPROVED COLORS LIST CONSISTENT WITH THAT ERROR.
WE FELT THAT'S WHERE THAT PRECEDENT WAS SOMEWHAT SET AND KINDA REITERATED THE INTENT FOR THE ADOPTION OF THAT DOCUMENT.
AND WE WANT TO REMAIN CONSISTENT WITH THAT.
I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION OR COMMENT.
SO THE EARLY IN THE PERIOD IT SAYS, UH, SUCH AS GRAY, IT DOESN'T SAY IT DOES.
SUCH AS LIGHT GRAY, GRAY, IT SAYS GRAY.
NOW IN THE LATER IN THE PERIOD IT DOES SAY DARK GRAY.
I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
UM, I THINK THE CONTEXT AROUND THE SOFT PASTEL IS WHITES, OFF WHITES, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A COLOR PALETTE, GRAYS FITS INTO THAT SOFTER, IT FITS INTO CORRECT, LIKE YOUR TYPICAL GRAY.
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AND ACTUALLY I THINK THE MANUFACTURER DESCRIBES THE TAVERN CHARCOAL AS LIKE A BLACKISH GRAY.SO FROM OUR, OUR INTERPRETATION THAT WOULD NOT, I'M SORRY, WHAT, WHAT DID YOU SAY? DESCRIBES IT AS A, AS A BLACK BLACKISH GRAY, BUT NO, BUT WHAT WAS THE, THE, THE DESCRIPTION OF THE, OF THE ACTUAL PAINT CHIP OR SOMETHING SAYS THAT? CORRECT.
SO WHEN I RESEARCHED THE ACTUAL PAINT CODE, THEIR COLOR CODE AND NAME BY, I THINK IT'S BENJAMIN WILLIAMS, UM, THAT IS HOW THEY DESCRIBE IT ON THEIR OWN SITE.
SO IF YOU WERE SAYING RIGHT, LIKE DARKER GRAYS ARE SPECIFIED LATER IN THE ERA, IF THE MANUFACTURER CALLS IT BLACK AND GRAY, WE WOULD FEEL THAT WOULD BE A LATER, SORRY, A LATER ERA COLOR AND WOULD NOT BE GRAY AS, I MEAN, I, I STRUGGLE WITH THIS A BIT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY A, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, IT'S A PRECEDENT ISSUE.
I MEAN, I ACTUALLY PERSONALLY LIKE THE COLORS THAT YOU'VE CHOSEN, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY OUR JOB TO DECIDE WHETHER I LIKE THE COLOR OR NOT.
IT'S MORE OF WHAT DOES IT SAY IN THE CODE? AND AS VOLUNTEERS ON THIS BOARD, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW.
AND AND WE'LL DISCUSS THAT AFTER THE QUESTION.
UM, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT AND ALSO GIVE YOU A CHANCE, UH, EMPATHIZE WITH NOT REMEMBERING EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO SAY, BUT SOMEWHERE ALONG IN THE APPLICATION, I, I THINK I REMEMBER READING YOU SAID THE WORD CONTRAST.
UM, COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT AND ALSO, UM, COMMENT ON WHY YOU CHOSE THE COLOR YOU DID? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
SO THE CONTRAST WAS TO ADD TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I, I, I LOVE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, DISTRICT THAT WE LIVE IN.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE DON'T NEED A, A SEA OF SAMENESS, RIGHT? WE HAVE TWO HOUSES DIRECTLY NEXT TO ONE ANOTHER THAT ARE BOTH WHITE.
WE HAVE TOPES, WE HAVE TOE NEXT TO TOPE.
SO IF WE WANT TO SEE A SAMENESS, I'M TRYING TO ADD CHARACTER TO IT WHILE I'M, I'M TRYING TO ENHANCE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'M NOT TRYING TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE HISTORICAL VALUE WHATSOEVER.
AND I CHOSE THE COLORS BECAUSE I THINK THEY LOOK FANTASTIC.
I MEAN, I WAS ON CHAT GBT AND I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE THAT CAME FROM.
I TRIED ALL THE DIFFERENT COLORS.
I HATE THE COLOR OF MY HOUSE RIGHT NOW, HONESTLY.
AND AS I WENT THROUGH THEM, THIS IS, I MEAN, HE MENTIONED IT AND IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT YOUR JOB, BUT I THINK IT LOOKS FANTASTIC.
AND WHEN I SHOWED MY NEIGHBORS IT, IT WAS A RESOUNDING THAT LOOKS AMAZING.
AND THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY I WENT WITH THOSE COLORS.
AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO BUCK THE SYSTEM.
I WAS FOLLOWING THE RULES TO AN ABSOLUTE T SO MAYBE JUST FOR ME, JUST LIKE A CLARIFICATION, 'CAUSE CERTAINLY THE, THE LANGUAGE IN THE DOCUMENT TALKS ABOUT THE BODY BEING A LIGHTER COLOR.
I MEAN IT YEAH, BLACK IS IN THERE AND, AND IT'S MORE OF A, I'LL SAY IT'S BLACK IS NOT A LIGHTER COLOR.
SO, SO IN YOUR MIND, SO WHY DO YOU THINK THAT, I MEAN, 'CAUSE FOR ME, AS YOU LOOK AT KIND OF THE, FROM A GUIDELINE PRECEDENT OR FROM A GUIDELINE STANDPOINT, PLUS THE PAINT COLORS, IT'S CLEARLY, AT LEAST THE WAY I READ, IT'S CLEARLY NOT LIGHTER PASTELS THIS.
SO, AND I KNOW IN YOUR DOCUMENT YOU SAID, HEY, I'M FOLLOWING THE RECOMMENDATION, BUT HOW, I MEAN FOR ME, HOW DO YOU KIND OF IN YOUR MIND RECONCILE THAT THE BODY'S LIGHTER AND THE DARKER COMES IN THE WINDOWS AND THE SASHES IN THESE, IN THESE PLACES? YEAH, SO FOR ONE, I THINK THE PICTURE IS NOT DOING IT JUSTICE.
THE COLOR IS ACTUALLY LIGHTER THAN, THAN IT LOOKS.
UM, I'M NOT TRYING TO HAVE A BLACK HOUSE THAT'S, THAT WOULDN'T FIT IN WITH THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AT ALL.
AND HAVING THE CONTRASTING COLORS WILL ACTUALLY MAKE THE GRAY LOOK, LOOK LIGHTER.
UM, READING THE DOCUMENT, IT'S, IT IS A LITTLE AMBIGUOUS, RIGHT? LIKE IT'S GRAYS, IT'S, THEN YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED IT'S IF, IF YOU NEED THESE COLORS, IT NEEDS TO BE STATED A LOT CLEARER THAT THESE ARE THE COLORS YOU ARE ALLOWED TO USE.
BECAUSE I TOOK THIS TIME, I DID MY DUE DILIGENCE, WHY WASTE MY TIME? WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR, YOU'VE ALREADY MADE UP YOUR MIND.
WHY, WHY DO WE HAVE A, WHY DO WE HAVE PRE-APPROVED COLORS IF THEY'RE NOT PRE-APPROVED? I MEAN, WE'RE TAKING, WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE THIS SUBJECTIVITY OUT OF THIS WHOLE THING, BUT ALL I'M HEARING IS THAT WE'RE JUST ADDING TO IT AND WE'RE DECIDING IF, IF WE THINK THAT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN APPROVED IN THAT ERA, IT DIDN'T, IT'S SURE IT'S RECOMMENDED.
IT'S NOT THE, IF IT'S THE END ALL, THEN WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE RIGHT NOW.
I WOULDN'T HAVE WASTED MY TIME.
DON'T PUT, DON'T MAKE THEM PRE-APPROVED COLORS.
THAT'S JUST A WASTE OF EVERYONE'S TIME IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT.
UH, I THINK THE APP, ONE OF THE APPLICANT'S MAIN GOAL IS TO CREATE CONTRAST BETWEEN HIS HOUSE AND THE ONES NEXT DOOR.
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DOWN THE STREET AND, AND THERE ARE VERY SIMILAR COLORS THEY BLEND IN.DID YOU HAVE A SUGGESTION OF A COLOR FOR HIM THAT MIGHT ACHIEVE HIS GOAL THAT STILL FITS WITHIN THE RANGE OF WHAT YOU GUYS ARE THINKING? WE, WE, WE DID NOT MAKE AN EXACT RECOMMENDATION LIKE A COLOR CODE OR A SPECIFIC COLOR NAME.
UM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON OUR PURVIEW TO TELL THEM WHAT TO PAINT THEIR HOUSE.
UM, IT'S OUR JOB TO GUIDE THEM AND BE CONSISTENT WITH THE, OUR ADOPTED DOCUMENTS, WHICH, SO AGAIN, WE, DURING THE AA PROCESS, OUR FEEDBACK WAS PROVIDED CONSISTENT WITH THE PRE-APPROVED, UH, PAINT COLORS.
AND WE SUGGESTED THE, THE LIGHTER PASTELS AND REITERATED THAT WINDOWS TRIMS SASHES WERE TO BE WHITE AND OFF WHITE AND BODY COLORS TO BE, UH, SOFTER THAN WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED.
UM, SHOTTER COLORS WERE ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WERE APPROVED TO BE DARK OR BLACK, I BELIEVE.
BUT HE, THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE ON THIS HOME.
SO MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MIGHT INTERJECT A THOUGHT, UM, ONE OF THE GOALS OF THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLOR DOCUMENT IS TO RELY ON THE PAINT TECHNOLOGY AT THE TIME.
AND THAT BECOMES, UM, PART OF WHY THOSE COLORS ARE CHOSEN.
AND A LOT OF THESE PAINTS STARTED OUT AS BEING VERY MUCH HAND MIXED AND THERE WAS A SORT OF A LIMITED PALETTE.
AND MANY OF THE BUILDINGS IN THE DISTRICT ARE FROM A VERY CONSISTENT ERA, KIND OF A, A BULK OF TIME.
SO, UM, CONTRAST IS NOT NECESSARILY ONE OF THE GOALS.
IT IS MORE, UM, PRESERVING OR ENHANCING THE TIME OF THESE STRUCTURES AND RESOURCES.
ONLY BECAUSE I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO STOP HOME AND GRAB ALL OF MY NOTES AND STUFF.
BUT REMIND ME WHAT IS THE EXTENT OF THE ERA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EARLY ERA, LATE ERA, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THAT WAS BECAUSE I THINK I WAS TRYING TO LOOK AT THAT IT IS PARTICULAR.
YEAH, FOR THIS HOUSE, I THINK IT'S 18 90, 41 40.
SO IT DEFINITELY IS EARLY ERA.
THIS PARTICULAR ERA IS 1891 TO 1940.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT WE HAVE TWO SUBSECTIONS AS DESCRIBED IN THE TEXT.
AND ONE IS THAT EARLY ERA AND ONE IS THE LATER ERA, PROBABLY WHEN THAT PAINT TECHNOLOGY CHANGED.
THIS IS PRETTY RARELY IN THAT EARLY ERA.
SO I I, NO OFFENSE, I'M NOT BUYING THE PAINT TECHNOLOGY ERA.
YOU HAVE BLACK, YOU HAVE WHITE, YOU CAN MAKE THAT COLOR THAT, THAT'S THAT.
IT'S NOT A TECHNOLOGY THING WHATSOEVER.
I MEAN, THEY COULD MAKE ANY COLOR THAT THEY WANTED.
MAKING PAINT COLORS IS, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S NEW.
SO I I I I'M NOT BUYING THAT ARGUMENT.
AND AT THE SAME TIME ALSO WHERE, WHERE DOES LIGHT GRAY TURN TO DARK GRAY? AND ALSO IF YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ERAS WITHIN AN ERA, WHY, WHY DON'T YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SECTIONS? UH, THIS, THE WHOLE THING.
AND THEIR QUESTION IS AT 54 SOUTH DIRECTLY BEHIND ME IN 2022, YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU DIDN'T HAVE PAINT COLORS THEN? THERE WASN'T A CATALOG WHEN I MOVED INTO MY HOUSE IN 18 THAT HAD PRE-APPROVED COLORS.
THOSE COLORS WERE PRE-APPROVED.
NO, NO, THIS CAME LATER THAN THAT.
YEAH, WE APPROVED, I, WHEN I, WHEN I MOVED INTO THE HOUSE, I HAD THE BOOKLET THAT HAD PAINT COLORS ON IT.
I, IT WAS SITTING ON MY NIGHT, IT WAS SITTING ON MY TABLE.
I'M JUST TELL YOU THAT THIS COLOR PALETTE WAS APPROVED BY, I THINK YOU AND I WERE ON THE BOARD.
SO IT'S BEEN THREE, TWO OR THREE YEARS.
SO I, I, SO IT'S BEEN REVISED, BUT SO I THINK IT'S BEEN CODIFIED MORE HERE.
I MEAN, BEFORE THERE WERE MORE, IT WAS MORE, AND, AND ESSENTIALLY THIS COMES FROM THIS PARTICULAR THING WHERE WE HAD A LOT OF, UH, PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT COLOR PALETTE WAS CAPRICIOUS.
WE WE'RE MAKING IT 'CAUSE WE LIKED IT.
SO THIS REALLY KIND OF FLOWED FROM A INPUT FROM THIS, FROM THE PUBLIC TO SAY, CAN YOU PUT SOME GUARDRAIL, PUT SOME GUIDELINES AROUND THIS? SO IT WE'RE TRYING TO, WELL I SAY WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID THIS A LITTLE BIT.
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BUT I MEAN IT, I MEAN, AGAIN, IN, I'M NOT TRYING TO KNOCK THE SYSTEM, BUT IT'S, IT'S, I MEAN, WHEN I TELL YOU IT'S BEYOND BROAD, I MEAN, WE'RE WAY PAST BROAD ON THIS.I MEAN, I
WHAT'S THE POINT? YEAH, BUT I THINK THE ONE THING WE'RE SAYING IS THAT IT'S CLEAR WHAT THE BODY, THE WHAT, WHEN IN HERE, THE COLORS, THERE ARE SEVERAL COLORS AS, AS YOU GO THROUGH THERE, THERE, THERE ARE CONTRASTS IN THERE.
BUT I THINK CLEARLY IF YOU LOOK HERE, THE BODY COLOR IS A PALETTE, I THINK IS WHAT IT'S SAYING IN HERE.
UH, I AGREE THERE'S A LOT OF COLORS, BUT IT'S SORT OF FITS IN TRYING TO THE STAFF TRYING TO PUT IN HERE KIND OF WHAT'S THE BROAD PALETTE OF THAT WAS THE INTENT.
AND I DON'T WANNA PUT WORDS IN THE MOUTH OF STAFF HERE.
I, I, I GUESS I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT ALSO, I MEAN, YOU
I CAN'T EVEN USE THAT, THAT SAME COLOR.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, I WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT COLOR I COULD PICK WITHOUT COMING BACK HERE AND HAVING TO SIT IN FRONT OF YOU AGAIN.
I MEAN THE, THE WHOLE IDEAL RIGHT, WAS TO HAVE PRE-APPROVED COLORS.
SO WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO THAT TO PAINT THEIR HOUSE.
AND AGAIN, I GUESS I WOULD JUST, I MEAN, I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT COLORS I COULD PICK WITHOUT HAVING TO, TO COME HERE.
UH, COMMENT QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
I MEAN, IF THE APPLICANT ASKED STAFF TO CLARIFY, MAKE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR, WHAT ARE THE COLORS THAT COULD BE USED FOR THE BODY, WHAT ARE THE COLORS THAT COULD BE USED FOR THE TRIM? YOU COULD SUPPLY THAT TO HIM, NOT JUST REFER TO THE DOCUMENT.
YOU COULD MAKE THAT CLARIFICATION.
MAYBE WE WILL CHAT ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT AND THEN IF WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, THEN WE'LL CERTAINLY, OR IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER COMMENT, PLEASE, UH, COME BACK UP.
SO ANYBODY, FIRST, UH, FIRST THOUGHTS FROM THE BOARD? I'M MAYBE START DOWN, WHAT, WHAT ARE YOUR FIRST THOUGHTS? SO WE'LL JUST MAYBE JUST GO, I THINK MY FIRST THOUGHTS ARE WHAT I ALREADY SAID,
I DO LIKE THE COLORS, BUT IT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER I LIKE THEM OR NOT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY MORE ABOUT THE PRESIDENT.
BECAUSE THE NEXT PERSON THAT COULD COME IN WITH A SIMILAR SITUATION AND I MIGHT SAY, WELL, I DON'T LIKE THOSE COLORS, BUT IT'S NOT MY CHOICE TO DECIDE WHETHER I LIKE 'EM OR NOT.
SO THAT'S WHAT CONCERNS ME IS IF WE DON'T FOLLOW WHAT THE CODE SAYS, EVEN THOUGH MAYBE I MIGHT HAVE PERSONAL DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE CODE, I DIDN'T CREATE THE CODE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE CODE SAYS.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M, WHERE I'M AT.
LISA, YOU'RE, I'M SYMPATHETIC.
I'VE HAD TWO HISTORIC HOMES, OR I'VE BEEN IN TWO HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
MY CURRENT HOME IS NOT HISTORIC, BUT I UNDERSTAND
HOWEVER, UH, THE FIRST HISTORIC HOME I HAD, I KNEW IT WAS HISTORIC AND I KNEW I KNEW WHAT THOSE GUIDELINES WERE GONNA BE.
I'VE ALSO WORKED IN THAT AREA.
SO, UM, I, I AGREE THAT, UM, I MEAN THERE WAS A DATE AT WHICH THIS GOT CODIFIED AND THAT DATE GOING FORWARD MEANS THAT WE NEED TO FOLLOW THOSE GUIDELINES.
AND THAT'S NOT REALLY SOMETHING WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE UNLESS WE WENT BACK AND TRIED TO CHANGE THE CODE AT THIS POINT.
SO, WHILE I UNDERSTAND, AND I, I DO THINK THOSE COLORS ARE GREAT.
I THINK THERE ARE OTHER COLORS THAT ARE APPROVED THAT COULD LOOK GREAT AND I WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO GO AGAINST AND SET A PRECEDENT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, BECAUSE WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS MANY TIMES.
I KNOW WITH MY OWN HOUSE, I COULDN'T, I KNEW I COULD NOT PROPOSE A COLOR I WOULD'VE PREFERRED RATHER THAN THE WHITE THAT I HAVE
SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT.
MARK? YEAH, UH, BOY, I HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS ON THIS.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRECEDENTS AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE ALWAYS PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO.
'CAUSE WE WANT TO TREAT EVERYBODY FAIRLY.
AND, UM, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THE, OF THE HOUSE BEHIND IT.
AND THE HOUSE HAD AN EFFECT ON CREATING THESE COLOR APPROVALS.
[00:30:01]
THE STAFF'S SITES IS THAT 2024 RESIDENTS.AND, UH, I HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT BECAUSE THAT APPLICANT CAME FORWARD AND DID NOT CHOOSE COLORS THAT WERE ON THE APPROVED LIST FOR THAT HOUSE.
UM, I ALSO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE, THAT THIS PART OF THE RULE, IF YOU WILL, HAS A LOT OF IT.
UM, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY COMING IN AND SAYING, WELL, MY HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1910, SO THEREFORE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE A DARK COLOR.
AND I THINK THIS ERA DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT BECAUSE THERE'S A CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT'S APPROVED IN THE BEGINNING AND WHAT'S APPROVED IN THE END.
UM, SO I THINK THAT THE AMBIGUITY THERE IS A PROBLEM.
UM, THE APPLICANT HAS CHOSEN A COLOR THAT'S ON THE LIST, AND UNLESS WE CREATE BETTER DEFINITION OF WHERE THAT TIDE CHANGES, I, I DON'T FEEL, I, I FEEL WE'RE PUTTING TOO FINE A POINT ON THIS.
UM, AND I THINK THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF MY THOUGHTS RIGHT NOW.
JUST MAYBE CAN I JUST, JUST AS WE'RE DISCUSSING, JUST FOR ME, 'CAUSE IT'S COOLER, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY CLEARLY IF I LOOK IN THE TRIM PART, IT IT'S LIGHTER RATHER THAN DARKER.
UM, UM, YEAH, YOU'RE SAYING BROADLY AND YOUR THOUGHTS IS THAT YOU THINK JUST AS THE PAINT COLORS HERE, THAT THE BODY COULD BE ONE OF ANY OF THOSE COLORS? JUST, UH, JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR, UH, I'M NOT, UH, I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
SO FOR ME, IF THE BODY COLORS ARE, ARE MUCH, ARE LIGHTER, I MEAN THAT'S KIND OF THE STATEMENT THAT WE'RE GETTING HERE.
THEY'RE ON THE LIGHTER PASTEL, WHITER KIND OF SIDE.
EARLIER IN THE, IN THAT AREA, THEY MENTIONED PAST THE, THE CODE MENTIONS PASTELS LIGHTER COLORS.
AND I WAS CONFUSED WHEN I READ IT TOO, BECAUSE IT SAID GRAY.
AND I SEE GRAY TOO WHEN I SEE THIS HOUSE.
AND, AND COLORS ARE NOT PER PERFECTLY REPRESENTED, UH, UH, IN IMAGES THAT WE SEE HERE.
AND I, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ISSUE WAS.
UM, SO DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YEAH, THAT ANSWER MY QUESTION? ABSOLUTELY.
ONE QUICK CO BUT THE CHAIR WAS TALKING ABOUT NOT ONLY THE BODY COLOR, BUT THE TRIM AND THE OH, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I WAS TALKING ABOUT BODY SPECIFICALLY.
AND MY QUESTION HERE WAS ABOUT DOES THE TRIM IS SUPPOSED TO BE A LIGHTER COLOR AS WELL IN THIS PERIOD, RIGHT? I THINK IT CAN MOVE DARKER, BUT YEAH, BECAUSE THE, THE TRIM AS PROPOSED BY THE APPLICANT IS VERY DARK SHUTTERS.
THAT'S SHUTTERS, THAT'S NOT THE TRIM OF THE WINDOW.
SO YOU CAN MOVE A LITTLE DARKER AS YOU MOVE IN INTO THE WINDOWS THE WAY I READ IT.
IT IS VERY AMBIGUOUS AND I WAS ALSO CONFUSED AT FIRST, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ERA IS SO BIG
AND SO I, I, I AGREE WITH YOU AND IT IS A STRUGGLE.
SO IF IT JUST SAYS GRAY, THEN HOW DO WE DECIPHER WHAT TONE OF GRAY IS SELECTED? MY UNDERSTANDING IS BECAUSE THIS IS AN EARLY ERA, IT SHOULD BE A LIGHTER TONE OF GRAY.
SO THOUGH I ALSO DO LIKE THE LOOK FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION WE'RE BEING ASKED.
WE'RE BEING ASKED TO FOLLOW THE CODE.
SO, UM, BUT I ALSO THINK FROM THE STAFF SIDE, WE SHOULD HELP CLARIFY THE RANGE OF TONALITY THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO THE EARLY ERA AND THE LATE ERA.
BECAUSE BEING IN DESIGN, THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT TONES OF GRAY.
SO, UM, I'M ALSO ON THE FENCE AS WELL BECAUSE, UM, THE 54TH SOUTH HIGH STREET AS THE REFERENCE KIND OF CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD AS WELL.
SO ONCE WE START APPROVING, THEN THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BUILD UPON EACH OTHER.
SO I THINK HELPING TO CLARIFY THE GRAY TONALITY AND THEN ALSO IF THERE CAN BE A RANGE THAT CAN BE PROVIDED FROM STAFF TO APPLICANTS, I THINK THAT WILL HELP AS WELL.
[00:35:01]
THE RANGE AND TONE IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.UM, I GUESS MY THOUGHTS ARE, START KIND OF VERY BROADLY.
YOU GO THROUGH THE STREET, GO THROUGH THAT, AS YOU SAY.
UM, FOR ME IT'S CLEAR THAT THE WAY THAT THE STAFFING KIND OF THE INTENT OF THE, OF THE COLOR PALETTE WAS, WAS WRITTEN IS THESE ERA HOUSES SHOULD BE LIGHTER IN THE BODY, RIGHT? I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT FOR ME IS, AND AT LEAST IN MY OPINION IS, IS IS VERY CLEAR AND AS YOU SAY, LOOKING JUST DOWN THE STREET BEHIND, AGAIN, I JUST WENT DOWN THE STREET.
I MEAN THAT WOULD BE IT FOR ME ON THAT STREET WOULD BE QUITE A CONTRAST.
IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER HOUSES THAT THAT KIND OF GO DOWN THAT STREET.
I THINK THERE'S ONE ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT'S A GREENISH AND THERE'S A BROWNISH DOWN THE STREET.
SO THAT'S, SO I MEAN THEY'RE, I WOULD SAY THEY'RE STILL IN THE PAL.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ERA THEY'RE FROM EXACTLY, BUT THEY'RE STILL IN THAT PALETTE PALETTE ERA.
CERTAINLY THE INTENT OF THIS WAS TO NOT HAVE THIS, RIGHT.
THAT WAS OUR, CERTAINLY OUR INTENT AS THE BOARD AND AS A STAFF.
BUT AS I LOOK AT THE, AS I LOOK AT THE, UH, THE WAY WE WROTE THE GUIDELINE AND THEN HOW IT TRANSLATED TO THE COLOR PALETTE FOR ME, IT, THEY JUST DON'T COME TOGETHER, RIGHT? THE TRIM OR THE BODY IS SUPPOSED TO BE A LIGHTER COLOR IN GENERAL.
SO I SEE IT AS NOT BLACK, RIGHT? NOT THAT DARK, NOT THAT DARK.
UH, AND FOR ME, GRAY COULD BE DARKER, BUT I MEAN THE WHOLE PALETTE COLOR IN THAT, THAT AREA FOR ME IS, IS LIGHTER.
SO, SO FOR ME, AS WE HAVE TWO THINGS, I THINK IT, THE COLOR THAT YOU HAVE ON THERE, WHICH COULD LOOK PERFECTLY GOOD, UH, IT DOESN'T FIT KIND OF THE, FOR ME, THE INTENT OF WHAT THE PAL THE COLOR, UH, THE COLOR PALETTE THAT IS IN THE DOCUMENT.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE KIND OF, AND THEN WE HAVE THE PRECEDENT THAT SITS THERE THAT SAYS, HEY, WE, WE SAID, HEY, THAT COLOR DOESN'T MATCH WHAT, WHAT HISTORIC BUILDING AT THAT TIME PERIOD SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND IT'S THE SAME THING I LOOKED JUST TO SEE YOU KIND OF GOOGLE JUST IS BLACK AN APPROPRIATE BODY COLOR IN THAT TIME PERIOD.
AND IT JUST, A GOOGLE SEARCH WOULD SAY IT LIKELY WOULD NOT BE.
SO THE WAY I SEE IT IS TRYING TO KEEP THE INTENT OF WHAT THE ARROW SHOULD LOOK LIKE AND AS THE STAFF WENT THROUGH THIS LIGHTER RATHER THAN DARKER, UH, IS KIND OF THE WAY I HAVE IT IN MY MIND.
AND, AND FOR ME, I DON'T SEE THAT COLOR AS, AS FITTING IN THAT.
UM, YOU SAY CLEAR, I SAY IT'S CLEAR AS MUD.
UM, YEAH, THAT MEAN THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S OKAY.
I MEAN, I GUESS SARAH, DO YOU, DO YOU OR MS. HOL, DO YOU W WHAT IS EARLY AIR, EARLY ERA OF, AND WHAT'S LATE? WHAT'S THE DATE? WHEN, WHEN DOES IT, I DON'T, I, FOR ME, I'M JUST WONDERING WHEN DOES IT FLIP? UH, I THINK IT'S A CONTINUUM.
I DON'T WANT SPEAK, BUT, SO YOU CAN JUST GRADUALLY GET DARKER AS IT, AS YOU, AS THE HOUSE GETS NEWER.
IS THAT HOW I UNDERSTAND THAT THE GRAY CAN JUST GRADUALLY AS THE HOUSE GETS NEWER, GET DARKER? CERTAINLY I'M NOT AN, UH, HISTORIC, BUT I THINK THEY, THEY TENDED TO MOVE DARKER, RIGHT.
SO I COULD ADD A COMMENT TO THAT.
I MEAN, IF THE PERIOD IS 1891 TO 19 40, 18 94 TO ME IS PRETTY CLEARLY EARLY.
I DUNNO HOW YOU COULD NOT ARGUE.
SO WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT THE HOUSE BEHIND ME, THAT IT ACTUALLY WAS BROUGHT UP AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE, THE RULES CAME UP DUE TO THAT DECISION, WHICH I GUESS YOU'RE TELLING ME TWO YEARS LATER IT CAME UP.
SO DURING THAT DECISION, IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT THAT IS A DARKER COLOR, YET IT WAS STILL APPROVED.
IT WASN'T THAT IT WAS OVERLOOKED AND STAMPED, IT'S APPROVED 'CAUSE IT'S GRAY.
IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT IT WAS DARKER.
THERE WAS THOUGHT THAT WAS PUT INTO THAT THAT I HAVE TO ADMIT, I I DIDN'T GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE MINUTES THOUGH.
SO IF YOU READ THROUGH THAT, THERE WAS ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT WAS PUT INTO THAT, THAT IT WAS DARKER AND IT WAS STILL APPROVED.
AND, AND, AND, UM, AS WE GO FROM TIME PERIOD TO TIME PERIOD, NOW I'M TALKING, UH, MORE ZONING TIME PERIOD TO TIME PERIOD, WE'VE MOVED TO A, A DIFFERENT SPOT.
AND I, WHAT LISA'S SAYING, I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE TRANSITIONED SAYING, OKAY, THIS IS, WE WANT TO PUT THIS IN A CERTAIN, UH, CONTEXT TO ENSURE THAT WE MAINTAIN WHAT, UH, WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL SAID, WE WANT THE CHARACTER OF THOSE AREAS TO BE A CERTAIN WAY STAFF IS BUILDING, UH, BUILDING A LIBRARY OF WHAT THAT CAN LOOK LIKE.
THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S CERTAINLY, THAT'S THE REASON THAT IT, THAT IT MOVES THIS WAY.
IT CERTAINLY SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE MADE THOUGH.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF, UM, THAT ARE NOW OWNED BY, UH, ATCH, I MEAN THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT THEM THAT'S FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES.
THE BACK IS TALLER THAN THE FRONT.
THERE'S A LOT OF EXCEPTIONS THAT CAN SEEM TO BE MADE.
BUT WE, THE, THE COLORS ARE CONSISTENT, AS I RECALL.
SO IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CONSISTENCY OF THE COLORS, I THINK THEY WERE ALL APPROVED IN THE, IN THE SIMILAR TIME PERIOD.
[00:40:01]
THEY'RE A DIFFERENT ERA, I THINK SOME OF THEM, BUT OKAY.BUT, UH, BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT THERE.
I'M NOT AT ALL SAYING THAT THERE'S NOT THINGS IN HERE THAT ARE SLIGHT, SLIGHTLY MORE OR LESS IMBU.
UH, I, I GUESS I JUST STRUGGLE WITH THE FACT THAT IT'S, I'M READING IT RIGHT THERE, WHITE OFF WHITE GRAYS, YELLOWS, SOFTER, AND THEN IT'S THE INTERPRETATION THAT IT WAS LIGHTER.
SAY THAT AGAIN, I'M SORRY, I'M READING RIGHT THERE.
AND GRAYS JUST LIKE WHAT MARK SAID, THAT THEY'RE GRAYS, I PICKED GRAY.
SO THEN THERE'S THE INTERPRETATION THAT IT NEEDS TO BE LIGHTER GRAY BASED UPON THE FACT, AND WE'RE BASING THAT ON TECHNOLOGY, WHICH I'M NOT BUYING THAT WHATSOEVER.
SO I, THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S INCREDIBLY SUBJECTIVE.
AND AGAIN, I I, YEAH, I WOULD LOVE, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE EVERY SINGLE PAINT COLOR THAT I'M ALLOWED TO USE SENT TO ME BECAUSE THIS, I MEAN, THIS IS A GIANT WASTE OF ALL OF OUR TIME RIGHT NOW.
BUT I THINK THE STAFF WILL SAY, AND MY, MY OTHER QUESTION IS THEN WHY AFTER I SUBMITTED, WHY DID I NEED TO GO BACK AND GET APPROVAL FROM MY NEIGHBORS AND SHOW THAT I HAD APPROVAL FROM MY NEIGHBORS? WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT? JUST TO GIMME MORE WORK WASTED TIME WAS WHAT DID IT MATTER? I'M NOT HIS NEIGHBOR TOO DOWN.
WHY WAS, AM I OKAY TO CHIME IN? YEP, PLEASE.
WE JUST ASKED IF YOU HAD MADE NEIGHBORHOOD CONTACT AND THAT WASN'T REQUIRED.
SO I APOLOGIZE IF I SHOULDN'T HAVE REQUESTED THAT.
UM, BUT TO ME IT WAS NO HARM, NO FOUL.
DO WE HAVE SUPPORT AND WE'RE NEIGHBORS CONTACTED SIMILAR TO HOW WE SEND OUT NOTIFICATIONS FOR EVERY CASE THAT COMES THROUGH? SURE.
CAN I ASK ANOTHER POINT HERE JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOME, UM, VAGUENESS, IF YOU WILL WITH GRAY, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY VAGUENESS ON THE TRIM, RIGHT? THE TRIM EARLY IN THE PERIOD IS WHITE OR OFF WHITE WAS POPULAR LATER.
CREAM, BEIGE BROWNS, OLIVES, GREENS, AND DARK RED COLORS COULD BE USED.
SO THE TRIM THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED IS, UM, IT'S DARK, IT'S BLACK.
I FORGET WHAT EXACTLY THE COLOR, BUT THAT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY VAGUENESS THERE THAT WOULD NOT BE EVEN REMOTELY WITHIN THE CODE.
I THINK, I MEAN IN GENERAL, UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS, I MEAN, I THINK WE'VE CHATTED THROUGH THE THING.
I THINK IT'S PROBABLY TIME WE MAKE A MOTION AND, AND WE JUST KIND OF COME THROUGH, WE COME TO A CONCLUSION ABOUT WHICH WAY THE WHICH WAY THE BOARD WOULD, UH, WOULD, WOULD VOTE.
I, I THINK IT'S A BIT, UH, UH, OKAY.
I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW THE, HOW THE, HOW THE BOARD WILL VOTE HERE.
SO, UM, SO FOR ME, I MEAN WE HAVE THE, UH, MOTION, UM, HERE THAT TALKS ABOUT, UH, THE MINOR, THE MINOR PROJECT.
AND THE FIRST MOTION HAS IT WITH, UH, HAVING THE AIR FROM THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS.
UM, I DON'T HAVE THE BOARD FOR ME, I'M NOT SURE HOW EVERYBODY WILL VOTE, BUT IT COULD BE THAT WE JUST, WE APPROVE, WE, WE, WE MAKE IT A MOTION THAT I CAN THEN WE, WE CAN TALK THROUGH THIS, MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW AS IS.
AND WE VOTE EITHER WE, WE AGREE THAT THE, THE APPLICANT CAN CHOOSE OR THEN WE, IF IF WE, IF WE VOTE THAT DOWN, THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND MAKE A RE RECONVENING UH, MOTION.
NO, I, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BY THAT.
UM, ARE WE REQUIRED RIGHT NOW TO HAVE THE MOTION THAT STATE'S APPROVAL OF MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION, THE APPLICANT SHALL CHOOSE EARLY PAINT COLORS FROM THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS SECTION 5.0 LIST AND SECTION 5.2 DESCRIPTION? IS THAT THE MOTION? THAT HAS TO BE ME NOW.
ME, WE CAN MAKE A MOTION THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THAT CONDITION AND THEN WE CAN VOTE WHETHER, AND THEN IT'S KIND OF THE BOARD FOR US TO SAY WHETHER THEN IT'S THE KIND OF THE DEBATE WE HAD.
AND THEN IF, IF, IF IT, WHICHEVER WAY IT GOES, THEN IT'LL EITHER BE APPROVED OR IT WON'T BE.
AND THEN IF, IF IT'S NOT, THEN WE WOULD COME BACK WITH A DIFFERENT MOTION IF I'M SAYING THAT CORRECTLY.
UH, SARAH, JUST FROM A PROCEDURAL STANDPOINT, SO THAT THAT'S CORRECT.
STAFF HAS MADE THEIR RECOMMENDATION.
AND CERTAINLY ANY MOTION CAN BE MADE FROM THE BOARD.
SO I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW, WHICH IS TO PAINT THE HOUSE, UM, WITHOUT CONDITION.
AND JUST FOR CLARITY ON EVERYBODY, SO THE, JUST SO WE, JUST FOR CLEAR A YES, WOULD
[00:45:01]
APPROVE IT AS THE APPLICANT HAS A NO WOULD, WOULD PUT US IN, INTO A PLACE WHERE WE WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT STEP WOULD JUST FOR A, FOR A CLARITY STANDPOINT.SO I HAVE A MOTION AND MARKS IT.
SO CAN YOU CALL THE RULE? YES.
ARE WE ALLOWED TO HAVE JUST GENERAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS ISSUE, OR THAT'S NOT, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S, IT'S A PUBLIC REC, IT'S A PUBLIC RECORD VOTE.
SO YES, WE CAN, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT.
SO I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD FOR SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
I'VE NOT REALLY PREPARED, IF YOU WILL, TO EVEN WANT TO GO HERE.
BUT, UM, I GUESS WHAT I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IS YES, THESE COLORS MAY BE OUR BEST EFFORT TO REPRESENT WHAT WAS HISTORICALLY HERE, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY VALUABLE, BUT IT DOESN'T REPRESENT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ANY KIND OF EVOLUTION AT ALL IN, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORY ISN'T NECESSARILY COMPLETELY STATIC WHERE PEOPLE LIVE.
SO IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT.
UM, AND WONDER IF THAT ISN'T SOMETHING THAT SOMEHOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET THERE, UH, BUT THAT WE COULDN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IN THE FUTURE.
UM, 'CAUSE I THINK E YOU KNOW, PRESERVING HISTORY, IT'S THE REASON WE'RE ALL HERE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.
BUT I THINK THERE'S REALLY VALUE IN LETTING KIND OF HISTORY EVOLVE TOO.
AT THE SAME TIME, I RECOGNIZE THAT YOU GET INTO THAT THING WHERE IT'S WHAT YOU LIKE.
AND THAT'S THE HARD PART BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, IN THIS CASE, I LIKE THOSE COLORS, BUT THE NEXT PERSON THAT WALKS IN, I DON'T REALLY LIKE THOSE COLORS.
AND I, IT SHOULDN'T BE ME SAYING I DON'T LIKE YOUR COLORS
SO HOW DO YOU GET THERE? I DON'T KNOW.
I I WOULD SAY THAT WE, IT, IT, THAT, THAT MAKES IT A BIT CHALLENGING.
NOW WE HAVE TWO THINGS SITTING OUT THERE TO BE QUITE HONEST AS, BUT WE HAVE TWO, UH, THAT, THAT, UH, THAT, THAT'S MY OPINION.
I, I, I DIDN'T AGREE, DIDN'T CHOOSE THIS OPTION BECAUSE I LIKE THE COLORS.
BUT RATHER I WANTED THE APPLICANTS TO HAVE A FAIR CHOICE.
AND I FELT THERE WAS, THERE'S AMBIGUITY HERE BUILT INTO IT.
AND, AND, AND I WORRY MORE ABOUT THE PERSON WHO BUILT THEIR HOUSE IN 19 10, 19 15, 19 20, RIGHT IN THAT ZONE.
WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DRAW A LINE SOMEWHERE.
AND, UM, AND THE WAY THE CODE IS WRITTEN, I, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SET IN PRECEDENT AND SO I DIDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE PRECEDENT THAT WE'RE GONNA SET AND DECIDING IN THE FUTURE WHAT THAT VAGUE DATE WOULD BE.
SO I HAVE TO JUST COME BACK AT SOME POINT AND SARAH, JUST LOOK AT THAT COLOR.
CAN I COMMENT ABOUT THAT? I TOO THINK THERE IS VAGUENESS IN THERE, THIS, BUT I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS VAGUE AT ALL ABOUT THE DATE.
I MEAN, 1894 IS PRETTY DARN CLOSE TO 1891.
UM, I THINK AT THE END, I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE THIS AS A, MAYBE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THIS AS A WORKING SESSION.
MAYBE ONE OF OUR, MAYBE WE HAVE A LITTLE LESS, WHEN IT'S LESS PACKED TO KIND OF GO BACK AND SAY, HEY, WHERE DO WE SIT? IF WE THINK ABOUT, I'D SAY, SARAH, THIS IS PROBABLY THE FIRST TIME IT'S COME UP AS A, THE, THE AREA BEING GRAY SO TO SPEAK.
AND HERE WHERE IT WAS MORE MAYBE A LITTLE MORE CHALLENGING TO FIND WHAT THAT LINE LOOKED LIKE.
UH, 'CAUSE IT'S PROBABLY THE FIRST TIME WE'VE REALLY PRESSURE TESTED THIS, I THINK IS THE FIRST TIME.
SO IT'S PROBABLY WORTH, UH, TAKING A MOMENT TO DO THAT.
AND WHERE WOULD THAT WORK BE DONE? HERE? HERE? AMONGST US? YEAH.
AT A, AS A SEPARATE MEETING, I IMAGINE I WOULD SAY WE COULD PROBABLY HAVE IT AT, WE FIND A TIME WHERE WE COULD ADD IT ONTO THE AGENDA.
SAY, LET'S LOOK AT THE PAINT COLORS AGAIN AND ADD,
[00:50:01]
'CAUSE IT WOULD NEED, WOULD NEED TO BE IN AN OPEN, IT'D BE IN A NEED TO BE IN AN OPEN, AND I WOULD PROVIDE A RANGE TOO.I THINK THAT WILL REALLY HELP APPLICANTS TO UNDERSTAND, OKAY, HERE'S THE APPROVED.
AND THEN IF THERE ISN'T APPROVED, IF IT JUST SAYS A, A, A TOE OR GRAY.
OKAY, WHAT IS THE RANGE WITHIN THAT SO WE CAN HELP GUIDE THEM? WELL, AND I ALSO THINK IT WILL BE EASIER FOR STAFF BECAUSE IT'S BEING INTERPRETED AS STAFF IS MAKING A DECISION THAT THEY, THAT IT'S BEING INTERPRETED AS IT'S SOMETHING YOU JUST ALL LIKE, OR, AND, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT.
WE WANT IT TO BE, HE'S GOT A POINT, WE SHOULD MAKE IT VERY CLEAR.
AND TO ME, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO PRESERVE THE HOUSE, THE WAY THE HOUSE IS.
I THINK WE, WE, I MEAN WE NEED TO COME BACK AND TALK A BIT MORE.
'CAUSE ALSO WE DON'T WANT TO PUT EVERYTHING AS SO CLEAR THEN WE WILL BE IN THE SAME SPOT WE HAD, UH, A FEW YEARS AGO THAT WE'LL, WE WILL HAVE THE, WE'LL HAVE A VERY SIMILAR THING COME UP.
WE SHOULD MR. CHAIRMAN CHAIR, WE CAN.
JUST ONE LITTLE THING AS YOU, AS WE SET UP A FUTURE DISCUSSION JUST TO, UH, CLARIFY, THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLORS ARE NOT CODE.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CODE AND GUIDELINES.
I THINK WE, SO I THINK THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION.
IT'S IT'S FLOWING FROM THE GUIDELINE.
SO THEY, THEY WERE INTENDED TO PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE AND THERE THE LIMITS OF WHAT STAFF COULD APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVELY, THE BOARD IS EMPOWERED IF THEY, IF YOU FEEL THAT THE COLORS ARE APPROPRIATE TO THE HOUSE.
BUT THEN AGAIN, HOW YOU INTERPRET THAT, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME MEASURE.
SO, BUT JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY.
IT'S NOT A COULD REQUIREMENT, BUT IT DOES YES.
UH, PROVIDE GUIDANCE FOR YOUR DECISION.
AND, AND MAYBE WE, WE SAID CODE INTERCHANGE, IT COMES FROM THE GUIDELINE WHERE THE GUIDELINE SAYS TIME PERIODS IF THE ORIGINAL, AND THIS FLOWS FROM THE GUIDELINE TO HERES, I REMEMBER HOW WE TALKED ABOUT IT.
SO THAT FLOW IS HERE TO THE GUIDELINE.
THE CODE EMPOWERS THE GUIDELINE, THE GUIDELINES EMPOWERING THIS PALETTE COLOR.
SO WHAT WE WERE WORKING WITH THERE, WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING WERE THE GUIDELINES RATHER THAN THE CITY CODE N UH, NO, IT'S ACTUALLY OUTPUT OF THE GUIDELINE.
THE GUIDELINE SAYS YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE, I FORGET WHAT THE CO WHAT IT SAYS HERE, COLORS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE TIME PERIOD.
AND THIS IS, IS THIS FLOWS FROM THAT TO THIS DOCUMENT.
SO THOSE, THAT DOCUMENT YOU'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT THERE, THOSE ARE GUIDELINES.
THESE ARE THE GUIDELINES, NOT CODES.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
WE MAY HAVE BEEN INTERCHANGING THEM.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE WERE, BUT WE MAY HAVE BEEN INTERCHANGING THEM.
BUT THERE, BUT THE CODE, THE CODE ALLOWS FOR THE BOARD TO MAKE INDEPENDENT DECISIONS ABSOLUTELY.
SO I THINK MAYBE HERE WE JUST MAKE SURE, 'CAUSE IF THIS, IF IT COMES JUST TO MAKE SURE AS WE INTERPRET FROM HOW WE'VE DONE THIS, IF WE HAVE SOME, BUILD SOME CLARITY AROUND, OKAY.
IF WE THINK IT'S GRAY OR NOT, AND THAT'LL HELP US JUST MAYBE ONE MORE CLARIFYING MOMENT IF WE READ THROUGH THIS AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN ADAPT THAT CAN BE ADAPTED THROUGH, THROUGH YOU AND WE CAN APPROVE IT THROUGH HERE.
DOES THAT MEAN WE CLARIFY THE GUIDELINES? WE'RE CLARIFYING THE GUIDELINES? NO, NO.
WE'RE CLARIFYING THE COLOR TO GUIDE.
SO THE GUIDELINES, UH, TALK ABOUT WHAT COLORS YOU CAN USE.
THIS DOCUMENT FLOWS FROM THAT AND SAID, OKAY, THIS IS VERY VAGUE AND WE HAD SEVERAL, THE HOUSE THAT'S APPROVED COME AND SAY THAT YOU HAVE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF TIME, PERIOD GRAYS VERSUS BLACKS.
AND WE SAID, OKAY, WE SHOULD TRY TO STREAMLINE THAT BECAUSE WE HAD PUBLIC COMMENT THAT SAID IT'S TOO VAGUE AND IT FEELS CAPRICIOUS.
RIGHT? THE BOARD IS MAKING DIFFERENT DECISIONS AT THE TIME, MAYBE DEPENDING ON PER PERSONAL PREFERENCE AND WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
SO FROM THE GUIDELINES, THIS DOCUMENT FLOWED TO SAY, HEY, LET'S TRY TO PUT SOME DOCUMENTS, SAY, SAY HERE'S THE EIGHT OR 10 TIME PERIODS, ROUGHLY.
THIS IS WHAT THOSE TIME PERIOD COLOR PALETTES LOOK LIKE.
AND IN THAT WE CAN TAKE THAT AND SAY, UH, WE'LL IDENTIFY ACCEPTABLE COLORS.
AND THEN YOU CAN USE THE, THE HISTORIC PINK COLOR DOCUMENT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE GUIDELINE TO COME WITH SOMETHING THAT'S MORE, UH, UNIVERSAL ACROSS A APPLICANT TO APPLICANT.
I IF I MAY ADD IN THE GUIDELINES, THERE ARE SOME MORE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON ARCHITECTURAL STYLES.
SO WHEN YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT A CUTOFF LINE IN THE ERA, UM, AND THE NEED TO DEFINE THAT, THERE WERE NO CLEAR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE VERNACULAR STYLE.
SO OTHER STYLES THERE ARE, RIGHT? SO IF IT'S IN AN ERA AND IT'S THAT STYLE, WE HAVE A LITTLE MORE CLARITY VERNACULAR.
YOU PUT DESIGN PERIOD IN FOR YEAH.
JUST BECAUSE IT, I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT.
'CAUSE THAT'S, I, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE.
AND THEN ALSO JUST THE EXPANDED PALETTE, BECAUSE THE BODY COLORS AND TRIM WERE ALL LIGHT.
THEY WERE STILL PERMITTED OR RECOMMENDED THAT THEY COULD HAVE BLACK SHUTTERS.
[00:55:01]
A LIST FOR JUST EARLY ERA THAT'S BASED ON BODY COLORS, LIKE YOU CAN'T LEAVE OUT SOME OF THOSE DARK YEAH.AND, AND I THINK THAT'S THE APPLICANT COMES HERE AND WE GO THROUGH WHAT WE THINK IT IS.
AND I THINK THEN THE BOARD, WE DISCUSS AND DEBATE AND WE END UP WITH A, WITH A, WITH A RULING FOR THE COLOR.
SO I MEAN THE, I THINK THE PROCESS WORKED WELL.
MAYBE A LITTLE CUMBERSOME ON WHEN YOU GET TO A PLACE WHERE IT'S PROBABLY ON THE LINE OF WHETHER IT'S DARKER OR LIGHTER.
ONE, ONE WORD WOULD'VE HELPED HERE UNDER 5.2 MAYBE WOULDN'T RESOLVE THE ISSUE, BUT IF IT JUST SAID LIGHT GRAY, IT JUST SAYS GRAY, THAT YOU REFERRED BACK TO OTHER COLORS THAT WERE LIGHTER.
BUT THIS DOESN'T SAY, WELL, THE CONTEXT IT'S IN THOUGH IS SOFT PASTEL.
I MEAN,
AND, BUT IT IS WITHIN THE CONTEXT.
IT'S SAYING SOFT PASTELS IN GRAY, MEANING PROBABLY A SOFTER GRAY.
BUT IT, IT, YOU KNOW, FOR HOMEOWNERS WHO ARE NOT STEEPED IN THIS, BEING AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE IS IMPORTANT, I THINK.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, THE HOUSE I, THE COLOR I HAD TO PICK FOR A HOUSE IN DURHAM VILLAGE, I HATED IT.
BUT THAT WAS IN THE COLOR PALETTE
AND IT'S BECAUSE IT WAS VERY CLEAR TO ME.
WE HAD VERY CLEAR GUIDANCE ON WHAT WE COULD DO.
THAT'S PART OF LIVING IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO I GOT, THERE'S THE CODE THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF THIS BOOK.
THERE'S THE GUIDELINES AND THEN THERE'S, WHAT DO WE CALL THIS? THERE'S OTHER RESOURCES.
SO WHAT DOES IT CH TAKE TO CHANGE OTHER RESOURCES? JUST US TALKING AND WELL, IS THAT IF WE WANTED TO DO THAT, I'M NOT SAYING WE WOULD OR NEED TO, BUT IF WE WANTED TO, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE CAN DISCUSS WHEN WE TAKE THIS CONDUCT THE NEXT MEETING.
BUT THERE, THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN ADAPT IT CERTAINLY MM-HMM
I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO DO BECAUSE I THINK THAT'D BE HELPFUL FOR STAFF.
I THINK WE GONNA GET INTO A DIFFERENT ISSUE 'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN THROUGH IT.
SO I, SO I, I THINK IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW WE DO THAT.
'CAUSE IF WE DO OTHER THINGS, IT, IT BRINGS OTHER PROBLEMS. SO GOOD, GOOD FRUITFUL DEBATE THERE, SARAH.
[COMMUNICATIONS ]
COMMUNICATION.UM, NUMBER OF THINGS TO CATCH UP ON.
RATTI AND I ARE SUBMITTING FOR OHIO HERITAGE AND SHIPPO AWARDS, UM, THIS WEEK.
AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE THE CODE UPDATES THAT WE DID IN 2024 AND THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL DOCUMENTS.
WE HAD PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED THAT TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION AND PRESERVATION COMMISSIONS WE'RE NOT SUCCESSFUL, BUT WE'RE GONNA KIND OF REPACKAGE IT AND GO FOR THE SHIPPO AWARDS.
UM, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON AN APPENDIX G AND HISTORIC OBJECTS PROJECT THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT, OH GOSH, PROBABLY A YEAR AGO.
AND, UM, FOR THOSE THAT ARE NEW ON THE BOARD, THIS IS INVESTIGATING THINGS LIKE, UM, PRIS AND CORNER MARKERS AND UM, MOUNTING BLOCKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT, BUT ARE NOT CAPTURED ON OUR HCA FORMS. SO WE'RE NOW STUDYING THOSE, CAPTURING THEM.
AND WE'RE ALSO CREATING A SMALL LIST OF ADDITIONAL APPENDIX G PROPERTIES.
WE'RE CONCENTRATING ON CITY OWNED PROPERTIES SUCH AS THE, UM, BARNS AT THE CORNER OF POST AND, UM, HIGHLAND CROIX, THE, UM, THE NAMES JUST ESCAPED ME, GORDON, THE GORDON BARNES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO HOPEFULLY AT THE END OF THE YEAR WE WILL BRING THOSE THROUGH THE PROCESS.
WE'LL NEED YOUR RECOMMENDATION THEN PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION, AND THEN ADOPTION BY CITY COUNCIL TO GET THOSE FORMALLY ADDED INTO OUR LIST.
CAN I ASK, SO NONE OF THE PRIS IN, IN HISTORIC DOWNTOWN DUBLIN ARE PROTECTED HISTORIC STRUCTURES.
SOME OF THEM WERE MENTIONED IN THE HCA LIST, SOME OF THEM HAVE NOT BEEN MENTIONED.
SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR ARE WILLING OWNERS WHO STILL HAVE A PRIVY TO SORT OF GET AN ADDITIONAL SHEET FOR THAT LITTLE
[01:00:01]
STRUCTURE ADDED ON.ANOTHER PROJECT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON IS THE DOMINI MAP, AND IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE SINCE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
AND THIS IS A HAND, HAND-DRAWN MAP DONE BY MR. DOMINI IN THE 1950S THAT, UM, THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAS THE ORIGINAL COPY OF, WE HAVE TAKEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF IT, WE'VE DIGITIZED IT, AND WE'RE WORKING ON TURNING IT INTO A GIS TYPE OF RESOURCE THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY CLICK ON AND SEE THE HISTORY OF A CERTAIN PIECE OF PROPERTY IN THE DISTRICT.
SO WE'RE SLOWLY WORKING ON THAT.
WE JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE A, AN UPDATE FOR YOU.
WHAT'S THE EXTENT OF THAT MAP? I'M JUST CURIOUS.
IT IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE KNOW OF AS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO, UM, IT GOES, UM, IT CERTAINLY CAPTURES THE LIBRARY SITE, WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN THE OLD SCHOOL, UM, THE VETERAN CEMETERY AND THE DUBLIN CEMETERY, AND THEN DOWN SOUTH RIVERVIEW AND THE QUARRY.
AND I MEAN, IT, IT IS COMPLETE.
SO TO HAVE IT DIGITIZED AS, UM, WE'VE BEEN PARTNERING WITH OUR OWN GIS DEPARTMENT AND THEY'VE BEEN GRACIOUSLY HELPING US IN PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
AND THE FINAL THING I WANTED TO MENTION IS ON THE 1ST OF SEPTEMBER, WE HAVE ANOTHER JOINT WORK SESSION.
THIS IS ONE IS WITH, UH, CITY COUNCIL.
SO IT'S KIND OF THE ANNUAL BOARD COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION.
UM, WE WILL WANT TO BE READY WITH A QUICK SUMMARY OF KIND OF THE YEAR TO DATE ACTIVITIES, NUMBERS OF PROJECTS.
CERTAINLY STAFF CAN HELP WITH THAT.
UM, WE ALWAYS ASK FOR ANY CHALLENGES THAT MAYBE COUNCIL CAN HELP WITH THAT.
UM, WE TALK ABOUT, AND AGAIN, WE ARE HERE TO HELP WITH PUTTING THAT TOGETHER.
THE MAIN BODY OF THE DISCUSSION, IT'LL PROBABLY BE AN HOUR, HOUR AND A HALF IS GOING TO BE ON MIXED USE.
AND THIS HAS BEEN AN ENORMOUS QUESTION FOR US AS WE LOOK TO UPDATE THE CODES FOR THE ENTIRE CITY.
AND WE WANNA DEFINE WHAT DOES MIXED USE LOOK LIKE? WHAT MIXED USE AREAS DO WE CURRENTLY HAVE? AND YOU ALL ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE MIXED USE VILLAGE.
THIS IS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT YOU, YOU WORK IN ALL THE TIME.
SO WE WANNA ADD SOME OF THAT PERSPECTIVE TO THE DISCUSSION.
AND SHOULD YOU EVER, UH, MOVE TO A DIFFERENT BOARD OR COMMISSION, CERTAINLY THAT CONTINUITY OF DISCUSSION WOULD BE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
SO WE'RE ASKING THAT EVERYBODY BE READY TO TALK ABOUT MIXED USES.
WHAT TIME IS THAT MEETING? DO WE HAVE A JAMIE? DO YOU KNOW YET TIME? I DON'T THE FIRST KNOW THAT WE WORK CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSIONS TYPICALLY START AT SIX.
AND THEY ARE FAIRLY GOOD ABOUT KEEPING THEM SIX TO EIGHT.
BUT YOU'LL BE INVITED IN ONBOARD, SO YOU'LL SEE IT WHERE YOUR OTHER MEETINGS WILL BE.
UH, NEXT WE SAID, UM, MARK, YOU SAID YOU'RE OUT NEXT MONTH OR THIS, THE NEXT MEETING, RIGHT.
SO JUST TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY ELSE IS HERE THEORETICALLY.
UNLESS ANYBODY HAS OBJECTION MEETING ADJOURNED.