* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:03] GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. I'D LIKE TO, UH, CALL THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD MEETING TO ORDER. WELCOME TO THE DUBLIN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD. UM, YOU CAN JOIN THE MEETING IN PERSON AT 5 5 5 PERIMETER DRIVE AND ALSO ACCESS THE MEETING VIA LIVESTREAM ON THE CITY OF DUBLIN'S WEBSITE. WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, INCLUDING PUBLIC COMMENT ON ALL CASES. AND AS, UH, AS NORMAL, WE WILL START WITH THE PLEDGE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE BARR, ALL. JUDY, CAN YOU CALL THE RULE, MS. COOPER? OH, SHE HAS NOT ARRIVED YET. SHE HAS NOT ARRIVED. SHE'S EXPECTED THOUGH. OKAY, MR. COTTER HERE. MS. PAT MCDANIEL. HERE. DR. STETH SCHULTE. HERE. MR. SIDAL HERE. AND BEFORE [ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ] WE START, I'D LIKE TO ASK, UH, CONGRESSMAN CONGRESSWOMAN CRAMM TO COME UP AND ADMINISTER THE OATH TO OUR NEW BOARD MEMBER. IS THAT TO YOU? I, I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR. SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I MEMBER OF THE PROTECT CONSTITUTION. WELCOME, TERRY. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, THAT'S COUNCILWOMAN CRAM, NOT CONGRESSWOMAN CRAM. JUST . JUST, UH, JUST AS A, JUST AS A CLARITY ON, ON THAT PART. SO . GOOD. GOOD. JUDY, WE'RE ALL GOOD THERE. WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANKS. UH, [ADJOURNMENT TO EXECUTIVE SESSION ] FIRST, UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO A ADJOURN TO EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR THE DISCUSSION OF A PERS OF PERSONNEL MATTER, THE CONSIDERATION OF, UH, PUBLIC OFFICIAL APPOINTMENTS. SO, MOVED YOU SECOND. SECOND, YES. YES, MR. YES. YES. OKAY. SO AFTER, UH, LET'S SEE, HAVE TO, OKAY. AS WE RECONVENE, SO THIS, UH, WE'RE, UM, WANTED TO EXECUTIVE SESSION TALK ABOUT, UH, REPLACING THE VICE CHAIR OF THE BOARD. SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO, UH, FOR THAT MOVE, UH, LISA, OH, SORRY. I MOVED THAT LISA BE, UH, APPOINTED THE, UM, TO VOTE TO GO OUTTA EXECUTIVE. UH, OH GOSH. IT DOESN'T SAY VICE CHAIR. IT DOESN'T SAY. OKAY. DOESN'T, I DON'T HAVE TO VOTE TO GO OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION. IT DOESN'T SAY THAT. BEFORE WE DO THAT, I'M SORRY. THERE'S NO VOTE TO COME OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION, RIGHT? RIGHT. WE DON'T NEED TO VOTE TO COME OUT. WE DON'T NEED TO VOTE TO COME. ABSOLUTELY, WE DO. OKAY. YES. SORRY. YES. SO I WILL, I WILL, SORRY. AND THEN I WILL MOVE TO, UH, UH, UP, I WILL MOVE, UH, MR. CHAIR TO MOVE OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION. THEN I WILL SECOND OKAY. THEN MOVE. SO WE HAVE TO, I THINK WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO VOTE. YEP. YES. YES, MA'AM. YES, CORRECT. THEN WE'LL VOTE ON THAT. YES. YES, YES, YES. NOW, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO, FOR, FOR A VICE CHAIR, UH, I MOVE FOR LISA TO BE NAMED THE VICE CHAIR OF THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD. I'LL SECOND THAT. YES. [00:05:02] YES, YES, YES. GOOD. UM, I WILL MOVE TO ACCEPT THE [ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS AND APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES ] DOCUMENTS INTO THE RECORD AND APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE DECEMBER 17TH, 2025 MEETING. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, YES. YES, YES, YES. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO NOW WE'LL START INTO, [ Case #25-118MPR] UH, THE TWO CASES WE HAVE TONIGHT. SO, CASE NUMBER 25 DASH 18 MPR, UM, 20 NORTH STREET RENOVATIONS, A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW, THE REQUEST FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW FOR AN EXISTING BUILDING. THE SITE IS ZONED HD, HC, HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC CORE, AND IS LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF NORTH HIGH STREET AND NORTH STREET. THANK YOU, UH, TORI. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND GOOD EVENING. THE CASE BEFORE THE BOARD TONIGHT IS CASE NUMBER TWO FIVE DASH ONE 18. IT IS FOR A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW FOR RENOVATIONS TWO 20 NORTH STREET. THE SITE IS OUTLINED IN YELLOW WITH A YELLOW ASTERISK OVER THE BUILDING WE'LL BE FOCUSING ON TONIGHT. THE SITE IS ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC CORE, AND EXISTS AT THE NORTHERN END OF HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND IT IS BORDERED BY BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT DIRECTLY TO THE NORTH WITH THE PEARL RESTAURANT AND THE LIBRARY. AND THIS MINOR PROJECT REVIEW APPLIES ONLY TO 20 NORTH STREET. THIS BUILDING IS ONE BUILDING ON THREE GLOSS AND MAKES UP ABOUT 0.15 ACRES. THE BUILDING IS UN UNCLASSIFIED, BUT CONSIDERED TO BE A BACKGROUND BUILDING. A MINOR PROJECT WENT TO THE BOARD IN 2025, AND IT WAS GRANTED APPROVAL FOR A RENOVATION OF THREE EXISTING BUILDINGS AND SITE IMPROVEMENTS. WITH THAT APPLICATION. THERE WERE ALSO WAIVERS APPROVED, AND ONE PERTINENT TO THIS APPLICATION WAS APPROVAL FOR ALUMINUM WINDOWS AND STOREFRONT SYSTEM. AND THIS APPLICATION WILL CONSIST OF MINOR CHANGES FROM THIS PREVIOUS APPROVAL. THIS IS JUST SOME SURROUNDING CONTEXT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS SHOWING SOME OF THE MODERN AND HISTORIC BUILDINGS HERE. AND THEN THIS IS THE EXISTING BUILDING FROM THE SOUTHEASTERN CORNER, AND THEN FROM THE REAR OF THE BUILDING SHOWING THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THE BUILDING. AND PLEASE KEEP THESE IMAGES IN MIND AS THEY'LL BE APPLICABLE TO THE NEXT APPLICATION AS WELL. MOVING INTO OUR PROPOSALS FOR THIS, THERE ARE TWO REQUESTS FOR THIS SOUTHERN ELEVATION. THE FIRST REQUEST IS FOR A CENTRAL WINDOW TO BE REVISED FROM TWO STACKED WINDOWS TO ONE OVERSIZED DOUBLE HUNG WINDOW. THIS WINDOW WILL PROVIDE A APPRO, AN APPROPRIATE SENSE OF WHIMSICAL CHARACTER, AND IT'LL, IT WILL ACCOMMODATE A NEW INTERIOR STAIR LAYOUT. THIS LAYOUT WILL ADD LIGHT ACTIVITY AND VISIBILITY ONTO NORTH STREET. THE SECOND REQUEST IS FOR A NEW MAN DOOR AND SIDE LIGHT, REPLACING THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WINDOW. THIS WILL ALLOW DIRECT STREET ACCESSIBILITY FOR THIS SUITE AND ADD LIGHT ACTIVITY AND VISIBILITY ONTO THE STREET. STAFF SUPPORTS BOTH OF THESE REQUESTS AS WE BELIEVE THEY'RE RESPONSIVE TO THE DISTRICT GOALS AND WILL ENCOURAGE STREET ACTIVITY. OUR REQUEST FOR THE NORTH ELEVATION, WE ALSO HAVE TWO REQUESTS FOR THIS ELEVATION. THE FIRST REQUEST IS FOR THE WINDOWS TO BE SLIGHTLY CHANGED TO MATCH THE OTHER WINDOW SIZES. STAFF SUPPORTS THIS REQUEST TO MAINTAIN CONSISTENCY ON THE ELEVATION. THE SECOND REQUEST IS TO PERMIT AN OPTIONAL DOOR ON THE LOWER LEVEL. THE APPLICANT HERE IS LOOKING FOR FLEXIBILITY TO ADD A MAN DOOR AS TENANT SPACES ARE NOT YET FINALIZED, SO THIS DOOR MAY OR MAY NOT BE ADDED. THIS ENTIRE LOWER AREA IS A MODULAR STOREFRONT THAT ALLOWS INTERCHANGEABLE WINDOWS AND DOORS BASED ON TENANT. UPFITS STAFF SUPPORTS THIS REQUEST AS WELL. ON THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE BUILDING. TWO WALL LIGHTS ARE SHOWN. THESE ARE SIMPLY SHOWED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND SHOULD NOT BE A PART OF THIS APPROVAL AND DISCUSSION FOR THE MATERIALS, THE PROPOSED WINDOWS AND DOORS ARE TO MATCH ALL OF THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WINDOWS [00:10:01] AND DOORS USING THE CONNIE ALUMINUM MATERIAL. AND THIS WAS A PREVIOUSLY GRANTED WAIVER, AND NO ADDITIONAL WAIVER IS REQUIRED HERE. THIS IMAGE IS SIMPLY A REPRESENTATIVE PHOTO, AND THE COLOR WILL MATCH THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED AS WELL BEING THE IRON ORE. ALL CRITERIA FOR THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW HAVE EITHER BEEN MET OR NOT APPLICABLE HERE, AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WITH NO CONDITIONS. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, AND THE APPLICANT IS ALSO HERE AS WELL. THANK YOU. ANYBODY HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS? I JUST HAD ONE, JUST ON THE, ON THE MODULAR STOREFRONT, JUST FOR SOME CLARITY ON, UM, WHAT WILL THEY, IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE IT, WILL, WILL, DOES DO, DOES THE OWNER NEED TO COME BACK AND MAKE SURE THAT IT IS FIT FOR PURPOSE OR WERE WE ALLOWING THEM TO PUT WINDOWS VERSUS DOORS KIND OF AT THE DISCRETION OF, UH, WHEN A NEW TENANT MOVES IN? SO YES, THE, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO COME BACK WITH ANY OTHER MATERIALS. OKAY. SO THOUGH, AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THE MATERIAL KIND OF AS IT IS TODAY, YES. THEY CAN CHANGE AS NEEDED BY TENANT. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S CLEAR FOR ME. AND DOES ANYBODY FROM THE NEW WINDOW, THE DIFFERENT SIZE? ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? NO. OKAY. AND I THINK AS YOU'RE SAYING IN THERE, YOU CALL IT WHIMSY. COOL. I THINK IT, IT, UH, IT, IT CERTAINLY ADDS A FOCUS ON THAT. AND I THINK IT, WE CALL IT WHIMSY. COOL. IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE WOULD DO IN EVERY SPOT, BUT FOR ME, UH, IT'LL SHOW THE, IT'LL HIGHLIGHT THE STAIRS. AND SO FOR ME IT'S OKAY. SO NO, NO OTHER QUESTION. OKAY. GOOD. OKAY. SO ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS? THERE WAS NOT. OKAY. UH, DO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR THIS ONE? I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW, UM, FOR 20 NORTH STREET. I SECOND THAT. DR. ALDI? YES. MR. DALE? YES. MR. KOTTER? YES. MS. PAT MCDANIEL? YES. GOOD. OKAY. THE SECOND CASE [ Case #25-121MPR ] NUMBER, 25 1 21 MPR 72 AND 84 NORTH HIGH, UH, NORTH HIGH STREET AND 20 NORTH STREET MINOR PROJECT REVIEW, REQUEST FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF A MASTER SIGN PLAN AND MINOR PROJECT REVIEW FOR EXISTING BUILDINGS. THE SITE IS ZONED HDHC, HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC CORE, AND IS LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF NORTH HIGH STREET AND NORTH STREET. UM, SO WE HAVE, UH, BRUBECK, I'M SAYING THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THIS CASE BEFORE THE BOARD IS CASE NUMBER 25 DASH 1 21 MASTER SIGN PLAN AND MINOR PROJECT REVIEW FOR 72 84 NORTH HIGH STREET IN 20 NORTH STREET. THE MASTER SIGN PLAN WILL BE AN OVERALL SIGN PACKAGE FOR THE ENTIRE PROPERTY. AND THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WILL BE A BUILDING, WILL BE BUILDING AND SITE LIGHTING, INCLUDING PARKING LOT IN THE FRONT PLAZA. THIS IS THE SAME PROPERTY AS THE PREVIOUS CASE, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL THREE BUILDINGS HERE. AGAIN, THIS IS IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC CORE. IT IS AT THE VERY NORTHERN END OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND BORDERED BY BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT. THIS IS THREE BUILDINGS ON THREE LOTS MAKING UP THREE QUARTER ACRES. AND THIS BUILDING IS CLASSIFIED AS BACKGROUND. AGAIN. THERE WAS A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW THAT WENT TO THE BOARD IN 2025. THAT GRANT WAS RECEIVED APPROVAL FOR THE RENOVATION OF THE THREE EXISTING BUILDINGS IN HISTORIC DUBLIN. THERE WAS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL ON THIS APPLICATION STATING THAT NO SIGN SHALL BE REVIEWED WITHOUT APPROVAL OF A SEPARATE MASTER SIGN PLAN, AND THAT THIS MASTER SIGN PLAN SHALL INCLUDE ALL BUILDING, LIGHTING AND A PHOTOMETRIC PLAN THAT ACCOUNTS FOR ALL APPROVED AND PROPOSED LIGHTING. THIS WAS DUE TO THE COMPLEXITY AND SIZE OF THE SITE IN BUILDINGS AND TO ALLOW FAIR SIGNAGE FOR THE LARGE NUMBER OF POTENTIAL TENANTS. THIS CASE IS NOW HERE TO SATISFY THOSE REQUIREMENTS, AGAIN, JUST HISTORIC OR SURROUNDING CONTEXT OF THE HISTORIC AND MODERN BUILDINGS IN THIS DISTRICT. AND THEN WE HAVE IMAGES OF THE FRONT FACADE FACING NORTH HIGH STREET, AND THE REAR FACADE FROM THE EAST SIDE. THIS SIGN PLAN SHOWS DOTS INDICATING VARIOUS LOCATIONS OF THE SIGN. THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES [00:15:01] OF SIGNS PROPOSED ON THIS PLAN. ADDRESS SIGNS ARE PROPOSED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND AS THEY'RE REQUIRED BY BUILDING CODE. THESE ARE SHOWED IN SHOWN IN RED BUILDING MARKER. SIGNS ARE PROPOSED TO BE DIRECTIONAL AND FOR SECTIONS OF THE BUILDING WHERE THERE'S MORE THAN ONE TENANT, AND THESE ARE SHOWN IN BLUE. AND TENANT SIGNS ARE PROPOSED AS TRADITIONAL INDIVIDUAL SIGNS FOR TENANTS IN STOREFRONTS. AND THESE ARE SHOWN IN YELLOW. HERE WE SEE THE PROPOSED SIGN LOCATIONS ON THE WEST ELEVATION. THERE ARE TWO ADDRESS SIGNS AND FOUR TENANT SIGNS. PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE SIGNS ARE NOT TO SCALE AND ARE SIMPLY EMPHASIZED FOR VISIBILITY ONLY. AND YOU CAN REFERENCE PAGES 21 AND 22 IN THOSE PACKETS TO SEE THE SIGNS TO SCALE. ON THE EAST ELEVATION, THERE ARE TWO TENANT SIGNS PROPOSED AND TWO BUILDING MARKER SIGNS. AND ON 20 NORTH STREET, THERE'S ONE ADDRESS SIGN, ONE TENANT SIGN, AND ONE BUILDING MARKER SIGN ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION AND ONE BUILDING MARKER SIGN ON THE WEST ELEVATION. THAT IS NOT VISIBLE HERE. LASTLY, ON THE NORTH ELEVATION OF 20 NORTH STREET, THERE ARE TWO TENANT SIGNS AND ONE BUILDING MARKER SIGN. MOVING INTO MATERIALS, STAFF WORKED WITH THE APPLICANT TO TAKE DETAILS FROM SIGNATURE FEATURES ON THE BUILDING, SUCH AS THE BOX BAY WINDOW TRIM. THE APPLICANT APPLIED THIS TO THE SIGN FRAME, UM, SPECIFICALLY THE TOP CORNICE FEATURE OF THESE SIGNS THAT IS NOTED ON ALL PROPOSED SIGNS. AND THE ADDRESS SIGNS ARE PROPOSED TO BE A TWO INCH THICK HIGH DENSITY URETHANE MATERIAL. AND THIS IS A, AN APPROVED MATERIAL IN CODE STAFF DID PREVIOUSLY REQUEST SAMPLES OF THE LETTERING MATERIAL TO EVALUATE, BUT THIS HAS NOT YET BEEN PROVIDED. SO THIS HAS BEEN MET WITH A RECOMMENDED CON CONDITION OF APPROVAL. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE INDIVIDUAL BUILDING MARKER SIGNS, AND THESE ARE ALSO PROPOSED TO BE THE TWO INCH THICK HIGH DENSITY URETHANE MATERIAL. AND THESE SAME MATERIAL IS USED FOR THESE TENANT SIGNS. HERE WE CAN SEE THE COLORS. ALL THESE COLORS WERE APPROVED AT THE PREVIOUS MINOR PROJECT REVIEW CASE THAT WENT TO THE BOARD IN 2025. AND THIS JUST SHOWS THAT CONSISTENCY IS ACROSS ALL SIGNS. THE TOP COLORS ARE FOR THE 72 AND 84 NORTH HIGH STREET BUILDINGS AND THE BOTTOM FOR 20 NORTH STREET. AND THE CRITERIA FOR ALL CRITERIA FOR THE MASTER SIGN PLAN HAS EITHER BEEN MET OR MET WITH A CONDITION. AND I'LL GO AHEAD AND TALK ABOUT THE LIGHTING PORTION OF THE APPLICATION. TORI PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED THAT THE LIGHTING PLAN APPLIES TO BOTH THE SITE AND THE BUILDINGS, AND THERE ARE SOME CURRENTLY NON-CONFORMING LIGHT FIXTURES IN SOME LOCATIONS. THOSE ARE GOING TO BE REMOVED AS INDICATED ON THE ELEVATIONS, AND WE APPRECIATE THE APPLICANT DOING THAT. ALSO, UM, THE BOLLARD LIGHTING HERE, B ONE HAS BEEN CHOSEN TO MATCH THE CITY'S LIGHTING UP ALONG NORTH HIGH STREET. UM, SO WE SUPPORT AND APPRECIATE THAT THIS WILL BE AT THE BUILDING ENTRIES ALONG NORTH HIGH STREET, EVEN THOUGH IT'S VERY HARD TO SEE ON THE PLAN. UH, THE LIGHTING STYLES ARE GENERALLY SIMPLE AND CLASSIC EXCEPT WHERE THEY'RE MATCHING THE CITIES. AND SO WE GENERALLY SUPPORT THE FIXTURES AS SHOWN. UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THE INFORMATION IS INCOMPLETE AT THIS POINT AND THIS PREVENTS US FROM MAKING A FULL EVALUATION. ADDITIONALLY, MANY OF THE PROPOSED LAMPS DO NOT MEET CODE REQUIREMENTS. SECTION 1 53 0.173 J CONTAINS ALL LIGHTING REQUIREMENTS AND THEN GUIDELINES 6.7 B ALSO APPLY. THIS HAS BEEN NOTED DURING REVIEW, BUT AGAIN, NOT YET ADDRESSED. SO TO SUMMARIZE FROM THE REPORT, UH, THE PLAN APPEARS TO VARY FROM THE ULTIMATELY APPROVED SITE PLAN. THE RIGHT OF WAY IS NEEDED ON THE PHOTOMETRIC PLAN TO CLARIFY WHERE ENCROACHMENT PERMITS ARE GOING TO BE NEEDED. THE FIXTURES AND BULBS DON'T MEET UNIFORMITY OR MAXIMUM MINIMUM FOOT CANDLE LIGHTING LEVELS, FOR EXAMPLE, UP TO THREE FOOT CANDLES IS ALLOWED, BUT OVER 35 IS SHOWN IN CERTAIN [00:20:01] LOCATIONS. LIGHTING LEVELS ON DECKS AND UNDER SOME FEET FIXTURES ARE NOT SHOWN. UM, SO CAN'T BE EVALUATED. IT'S UNCLEAR IF BACKGROUND LIGHTING IS INCLUDED PER THE CODE REQUIREMENT. AND THE INGROUND UP LIGHTING LEVELS AT THE HISTORIC WALL IS BEYOND THAT PERMITTED BY CODE. THERE IS A MORE DETAILED LIST PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT THE APPLICANT CAN USE AS KIND OF A CHECKLIST. UH, WE ARE RECOMMENDING A CONDITION OF APPROVAL TO ADDRESS THIS ELEMENT OF THE REQUEST ADMINISTRATIVELY. IF THE BOARD FEELS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT APPROACH, THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW CRITERIA CAN BE MET WITH THE CONDITION AS RECOMMENDED. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE MASTER SIGN PLAN WITH THE CONDITION THAT PRIOR TO SUBMITTING A BUILDING PERMIT, THE APPLICANT SHALL SUPPLY STAFF WITH A SAMPLE OF THE MATERIAL PRO PROPOSED FOR THE LETTERING ON THE SIGNS FOR STAFF APPROVAL OR PROPOSE A MATERIAL THAT IS REGULARLY APPROVED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND WE'RE ALSO RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WITH THE CONDITION PRIOR TO INSTALLATION OF ANY LIGHTING. THE APPLICANT SHALL SUPPLY STAFF WITH COMPLETE AND APPROVABLE LIGHTING INFORMATION THAT MEETS ALL REQUIREMENTS UNDER CODE 1 53, 1 73 J LIGHTING AND GUIDELINES SECTION 6.7 LIGHTING. AND THIS LIGHTING SHALL BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY. AND UH, WITH THAT WE WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. SUN, ANYBODY HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF MR. CHAIR? I DO. I DO. MR. CHAIR, UH, COULD YOU GO BACK TO, UM, THE PLAN, THE, UH, SIGN PLAN FOR THE PART OF THE BUILDING THAT'S ON 20 NORTH? YEAH. RIGHT? OH, NOPE, I'M SORRY. THIS, YEAH. OKAY. THE ONE YOU HAVE NOW. SO, UH, THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE THE FLEXIBLE FRONTS. YES. YES. AND SO I ASSUME, AND I DON'T WANNA ASSUME THAT, UH, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF TENANTS, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO BE ADDITIONAL, AN ADDITIONAL SIGN. YES. OKAY. OKAY. AND SO WE'RE CONSIDERING THAT THERE, THERE WOULD ONLY BE MAXIMUM THREE TENANT SIGNS POTENTIALLY? YES. YES. OKAY. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. I GUESS MY SECOND QUESTION, WELL, NO, I DON'T HAVE A SECOND QUESTION RIGHT NOW. QUESTION FOR STAFF OUT HERE. SORRY. NO. IS THE APPLICANT, WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME UP AND, AND, UM, UH, GIVE A VIEW OF, AND IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS FOR YOU? YEAH, NO NEED TO SWEAR IN, BUT, UH, WE DID NOT SWEAR IN. OKAY. SOMEHOW, DID WE NOT, HOLD ON, JUST BEFORE WE GO FURTHER, SOMEHOW WE MISSED A PART OF, SO SOMEHOW WE MISSED, UH, SWEARING EVERYONE IN. IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ON HERE. WE HAVE A, I FORGET WHAT, WE DON'T HAVE, UH, THE SCRIPT FOR SWEARING PEOPLE IN. WE DIDN'T SWEAR IN THE, IN PEOPLE. UM, CAN I JUST KIND OF , I NEED TO SWEAR. YEAH. DO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE THE, UH, KIND OF THE SCRIPT FOR SWEARING PEOPLE IN? UH, OKAY. SO I'LL JUST SWEAR THEM EVERYBODY IN JUST BEST I CAN HERE. UH, SO, UH, IF, IF EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD TODAY, IF THEY COULD RAISE THEIR RIGHT HAND AND SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN THEIR TESTIMONY TO THIS BOARD. I DO. YES. GOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND NOW, AND NOW IF YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS, UH, FOR US. THANKS. BRUCE SUMMERFIELD, 5 2 7 WESTRIDGE STREET, COLUMBUS, UH, TIM BASS. OUR OFFICE IS 36 KING AVENUE, COLUMBUS, OHIO. GOOD. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY, UH, COMMENTS YOU HAVE FROM THE, FROM THE STAFF, UH, STAFF PRESENTATION OR HOW YOU SEE, UM, UH, THE COMMENTS THEY HAVE ON THE, ESPECIALLY ON THE, THE, I'LL SAY ON THE LIGHTING PART, I THINK THE SIGN LOOKED FAIRLY. I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR THE LIGHTING. YEAH. BUT I WILL SPEAK FOR THE SIGNAGE. YEAH. WE HAVE AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER THAT WE HAS AGREED TO WORK WITH STAFF WITH US AND, UH, GET THE CHANGES TAKEN CARE OF THAT WE OKAY. I MEAN, ON YOUR SIDE, YOU'RE CLEAR ON WHAT THE CODE SAYS [00:25:01] AND HOW THE CODE APPLIES TO THE, I MEAN, WITH YOU AND YOUR ENGINEER. YEAH, WE HAVE AN ENGINEER WHO I ASSUME WILL BE . OKAY, OKAY. FOR THE ARCHITECT. YEAH. GOOD. SO DO YOU WANT TO TALK TO THE MATERIAL QUESTION ON THE SIDE? UM, AS, AS STAFF APTLY POINTED OUT, AND THANK YOU FOR A GREAT REPORT AND BEEN VERY CONGENIAL TO WORK WITH, WE'VE GONE THROUGH MULTIPLE REV REVISIONS ON THIS TO TRY AND GET AN AMENABLE PACKAGE TO YOU. BUT IT IS A VERY COMPLEX SITE AND WAY FINDING IN DUBLIN IS ALWAYS A, ALWAYS, ALWAYS TRICKY AT BEST. AND WITH THIS SITE, WITH REAR PARKING AND VISUAL SIGHT LINES DO GET FUNCTIONAL UNCLUTTERED SIGNAGE HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE AT BEST. AND WITH STAFF'S INPUT AND WITH THE ARCHITECT'S INPUT AND SO FORTH, I THINK WE'VE GOT A, A, A FAIRLY ATTRACTIVE PACKAGE THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT MEETS THE POINT HERE. IN REGARDS TO MATERIALS FOR THE STAFF, WANTED A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL FOR, WE CAN REALLY, THE DIMENSIONALITY OF THE LETTERING THAT IS REQUIRED BY CODE FOR THE DIRECTORY SIGNS AS WE CALL THEM, OR THE 10 SIGNAGE AND SO FORTH, CAN BE THE SAME MATERIAL. THAT HIGH DENSITY URETHANE THAT IS THE BACKGROUND AND THE STANDS FOR ALL THESE SIGNS. IT CAN BE THE HALF INCH RELIEF OUT OF THAT MATERIAL OR WHATEVER ELSE OFFERS DIMENSIONALITY THAT STAFF WOULD APPROVE. SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT WOULD BE APPROVABLE AT TIME OF PERMITTING AND SO FORTH. SO I DIDN'T BRING THAT ALONG WITH ME AT THIS POINT, BUT IT CAME, WE CAN CERTAINLY AGREE TO THAT, THAT CONDITION, NO PROBLEM AT ALL. OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK WE TRY TO BE AS FUNCTIONAL AS WE CAN, AS MINIMALISTIC, BUT ALSO TO BE VISUALLY RECOGNIZABLE AND, AND DO THE JOB FOR, FOR BOTH WAYFINDING AND TENANT SIGNAGE. ON, ON, WE, WE'VE GOT A FEW WAIVERS IN THIS, WHICH I THINK THERE'S A FEW SIGNS WITH THE ELEVATIONS AND THE GRADE DROP ON THE BACKSIDE, WE MIGHT EXTEND OVER THE 15 FOOT REQUIREMENT. UM, WE, THE PROXIMITY TO ENTRANCES IS AN ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY IN THIS BECAUSE OF THE, THE ACCESS POINTS UP AND DOWN STAIRCASES AND ALONG CORRIDORS AND SO FORTH. BUT, UM, I THINK OVERALL IT'S, IT'S, IT'S FUNCTIONAL AND AS, AS BARE AS BARELY STATED AS WE CAN PUT IT, TO NOT FRUSTRATE PEOPLE WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND WHERE THEY'RE GOING, IT'S GOOD. NO, I THINK IT'S QUITE GOOD. BUT ON THE, ON THE HEIGHT THEN, I KNOW THERE'S SOME THINGS IN THERE. DO WE, IS THERE SOMEWHERE IN THE, WHERE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO A WAIVER FOR SOME OF THESE OR, I MEAN, THOSE ARE, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT A MASTER SIGN PLAN ACTUALLY SORT OF SETS ASIDE ALL OF THE SIGNAGE RULES THAT ARE TRADITIONALLY LOOKED AT FOR A SINGULAR SIGN MM-HMM . OR, UM, NOW DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY AND BECAUSE OF UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES, WE CAN LOOK AT THINGS AS A SINGLE PACKAGE AND NOT HAVE TO DO INDIVIDUAL WAIVERS. THAT'S KIND OF THE POINT OF IT, IS THAT WE CAN BREAK THE RULES WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DO SO. SO ESSENTIALLY WHEN, IF WE SAY YES TO THIS, UH, THEN WE'RE SAYING THAT INSIDE OF THE SCOPE, IF IT'S 15 FEET OR 15 FIVE, YOU'RE GONNA SAY, YEAH, IT'S INSIDE THE SPIRIT OF WHAT THE MASTER SIGN PLAN IS, IS TELLING US THAT WE CAN DO THAT. WE AGREE THAT THESE THINGS CAN WORK. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. THAT'S RIGHT. NOW I JUST HAD ONE OTHER ONE ABOUT THE PARKING LOT. SO THE PARK, SO I MEAN, INSIDE THE, THE PARKING LOT THERE WILL, THERE BE, THERE'S NO SIGNS FORESEEN. SO RIGHT NOW, I MEAN, I THINK WE, WE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT IT'S A PRIVATE PARKING, YOU KNOW, OR IS THERE GONNA BE A SIGN THAT SAYS THIS IS PRIVATE PARKING O OTHER THINGS THAT COULD BE NEEDED, JUST JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF PARKING THIS IS, IS REGULATORY SIGNS, I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT MAYBE REGULATORY SIGNS. SO IT'S WHATEVER THE CODE REQUIRES FOR THOSE THAT GO AWAY AND, UH, AND A HANDICAP AND YEAH. AND SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE PARKING FOR ADDRESSES. OKAY. BUT NOTHING BRANDED, NOTHING. OKAY. WILL JUST LITERALLY BE REGULATED REGULATORY. I'M SURE. SO ON THESE WHERE IT SAYS PRIVATE PARKING, THIS IS, IT'S A PRIVATE SPACE, SO THEY, THEY CAN PUT A, A MORE, THEY CAN UTILITARIAN SIGN IN THAT SPACE AND WE DON'T REVIEW THOSE. OKAY. AND AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HAVE, UM, BUSINESS NAMES ON THEM OR ARE SERVING AS ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE PROPERTY, THEN THEY ARE FREE TO PUT THOSE UP. OKAY. SO THAT WON'T BE ANY REVIEW NEEDED THERE ON THIS SIDE. OKAY. CORRECT. SO, PERFECT. SO THEN ON THE SIGN, ANYBODY HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS SIGN WISE? I DON'T, I, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES AND CONCERNS WITH EITHER OF THESE PROPOSALS. UM, JUST A GENERAL QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY IS ABLE TO ANSWER THIS, BUT THE QUESTION I HEAR FREQUENTLY IS, UH, IS, UH, IS ARE THERE PLANS FOR OSCARS OR THE RESTAURANT TO BECOME FUNCTIONAL, ACTIVE SOON? AND IF THERE, IF, UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT I, I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SPECULATE ONLY SAY WHAT THEY FEEL THEY CAN SAY. PERHAPS THE APPLICANT KNOWS. YEAH. YEAH. THAT THE KNOWS. YEAH. [00:30:01] I REALLY CAN'T SAY, I MEAN, THERE'S A, THERE'S LEASING ACTIVITY GOING ON AND I'M NOT PRIVY TO ALL OF IT, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE POINTING AT A RESTAURANT. I'M SORRY TO SAY. SO I DO HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON LIGHTS, JUST, UH, GENERIC, JUST SOME GENERIC QUESTIONS JUST FOR ME ON THE FRONT. WHEN I SAY THE FRONT, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WEST SIDE. UH, ON THE SOUTH SIDE, THE ONE SIGN ON THE NORTH SIDE, YOU HAVE GOOSENECKS WITH TWO LIGHTS. THE ONE THAT SIGN ON THE FAR SOUTH HAS THREE. AS I READ THIS, IF THAT'S CORRECT, AT LEAST FROM THE PICTURE IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. IS, IS THAT ON, IS THAT A REASON? 'CAUSE THE SIGN IS TOO BIG. I REALLY CAN'T ANSWER THAT. IS IT ON THE HIGH STREET FACADE? THAT'S ON THE HIGH STREET FACADE? I MEAN, IT LOOKS JUST FOR ME WHEN I LOOK AT, IT'S HARD TO SAY, BUT WHEN I LOOK AT THE DRAWING IT LOOKS LIKE THREE LIGHTS. I MIGHT BE WRONG, BUT YEAH, I DIDN'T SEE, I DIDN'T SEE THREE ON ANY OF 'EM. I THOUGHT IT WAS, THESE ARE GARY'S DRAWINGS. TWO, IT'S NOT SO EASY TO SEE IN THE DRAWING. SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TWO OR THREE, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD BENEFIT EVERYBODY IS GETTING A PHOTOMETRIC PLAN THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE READ, I THINK. AND THEN FOR ME WOULD BE GOOD. 'CAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SIT, IT LOOKS LIKE THREE. AND THE SAME SAYS ALL SOME OF THESE LIGHTS KIND OF RUN TOGETHER. YEAH. TWO, UH, THE SIGNS ARE ONLY I THINK THREE FEET. SO IT WOULD SPLIT THE LEVEL ONE'S BETTER NOT TO DO IT, BUT I THINK, UH, WE, WE DO NEED A PLAN THAT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IN A BETTER WAY. WOULDN'T HAVE ROOM, VERTICAL ROOM TO HAVE SIGHT LIGHTS ABOVE 'EM ANYWAY. OKAY. IT'S JUST WHERE THE SPACE WAS AVAILABLE AND WITH THE SETBACK IT WOULD HELP, DEPENDING IF THEY HAD AFTER HOUR BUSINESS, IT'S CERTAINLY ONE TO BE KIND OF SYMMETRIC THAT ONE OF 'EM, IT'S NOT ONE OF TWO OF 'EM OR THREE OF'EM OR TWO AND ONE OF THEM IS THREE. SO IT'S CERTAINLY TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE THREE ANYWAY. AND AS YOU SAY, IT'S HARD TO READ THAT DRAWING. I THINK THERE'S ONE ON THE BACK THAT THERE'S TWO ON THE BACK AS WELL. THAT RIGHT THERE. OH, THEY WENT AWAY. YEAH, THEY WENT AWAY. WE DON'T HAVE LIGHTS ON THIS ONE EITHER. IT'S GOOD YOU, I SAW IT ON HERE, BUT IT'S, YEAH, SO I MEAN IT'S SMALL. YEAH. SO, SO THAT WAS ONE POINT, UH, I HAD JUST MAKE SURE THEY'RE KIND OF CONSISTENT ACROSS, AT LEAST ACROSS THE FRONT. UM, AND THEN AS I KIND OF MOVE AROUND, UH, ON MY DRAWING HERE, UM, UH, AS WE MOVE AROUND TO THE BACK, THE, THE PARKING TODAY, THE, THERE'S LIGHTS FACING THE PARKING LOT AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S, IF I LOOK AT MY PICTURE, THERE'S LIKE FOUR LIGHTS FACING THE PARKING LOT KIND OF GOING ON THE FACING EAST AND THEN FACING NORTH ON 20. AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA GO TO TWO. AND I, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND FROM THE REASON THAT THERE'S FOUR, WE TRYING TO LIGHT THE PARKING LOT, BUT THEN WE HAVE THE HOW MANY LUMENS WE CAN HAVE. SO FOR ME IT WAS A LITTLE UNCLEAR WHAT, WHY YOU PICKED TWO VERSUS NOW I THINK THERE'S FOUR. THE FOUR WE, UH, IDENTIFIED THE FOUR AS SORT OF A VISUALLY NOT APPROPRIATE. OKAY. AND, AND ALSO FUNCTIONALLY, THERE'RE HOT SPOTS WHEN YOU LOOK, THEY'RE, THEY PRODUCE GLARE. AND SO, UH, WE KNEW THOSE WERE GOING AWAY. AND I ACTUALLY WAS SURPRISED BY THE TWO THAT CAME BACK. I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING IT WITH UNDER DECK LIGHTING, BUT UM, THE TWO THAT CAME BACK ARE ACTUALLY WALL LIGHTING FIXTURES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO THROW THAT LIGHT FOR A PARKING LOT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, SO THESE ARE THERE TO TRY TO GET ENOUGH LIGHT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE DON'T TRIP OVER WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE DOWN THERE. AND IT'S A, UH, THEY, THEY WILL, THEY'RE DESIGNED TO MEET THE MINIMUMS REQUIRED PARKING. SO YOU'LL HAVE THEM SUBMIT AND KIND OF AS THEY'RE STACKED ALONG THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE CLEAR AND THEY, NOW, NOW IT HAS TO FALL INSIDE OF THE LIGHTING PLAN. THAT'S THE CHALLENGE. AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE HIGHER ALSO THAN THE FORMER LIGHTS? YES. CORRECT. SO THEY SPREAD FARTHER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND HERE, JUST THERE, I GUESS YOU'LL TRY TO LOOK, I KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE SOME PHOTOMETRIC PLAN AROUND HOW MUCH THEY CAN BE OUT THERE, BUT I DUNNO IF YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE MORE TO, IT'S KIND OF UNCLEAR FOR ME HOW THE, HOW THE LIGHT'S GONNA LOOK ON THAT ON THE BACK AND ON THE SIDE. UM, AND THEN THE NEXT ONE WAS JUST AS WE LOOK ALONG ON, ON THE, NOW WE'RE GOING NORTH ON THE BACK FACING EAST, GOING NORTH, THAT YOU HAVE THE SAME W2 LIGHT THAT'S GOING UP THAT ONE STAIR, AND THEN IT KIND OF TRANSITIONS TO, UH, KIND OF THE CYLINDRICAL LIGHTS AND INTO A DIFFERENT KIND OF LIGHT. JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND FROM A, FROM A SYMMETRIC STANDPOINT, WHY YOU, WHY YOU HAVE DIFFERENT KINDA LIGHTS IN DIFFERENT SPOTS. I MEAN, SOME OF 'EM I KNOW ARE AROUND THE DOORS, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TWO OTHER ONES THAT ARE THIS, WHATEVER IT IS, THIS W2 LIGHT THAT ARE KIND OF STUCK IN THERE. I MEAN, IT LOOKS A LITTLE STRANGE. I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU PUT 'EM LIKE THAT. YEAH. ALL OF THE LIGHTING ON 20 IS CONCEALED IN THE DEPTH OF THE DECK. WELL, THESE WOULD BE ON SET. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'D BE SET. SO THIS IS GOING DOWN, THIS IS THE 80 BUILDING, RIGHT? YEAH. SO THOSE ARE THERE JUST SORT OF TO SIGNIFY THAT DOORWAY, THAT'S A, THAT'S A TENANT ENTRANCE. YEAH. AND UM, IT'S A, IT MAY BE A BUILDING ENTRANCE AT SOME POINT. IT'S ALSO THE ENTRY TO THE STAIRS. SO I THINK THAT IT'S MORE SO YOU'RE TRYING TO DIFFERENTIATE THE WALKWAY LIGHTING VERSUS THE DOORWAY LIGHTING? UH, SURE. OKAY. BECAUSE IT KIND OF LOOK NO, THEY GO HONESTLY, UH, BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE THREE DIFFERENT LIGHTS. YOU HAVE W2, YOU HAVE GOOSENECKS, YOU HAVE THESE OTHER ONES, AND PLUS YOU HAVE THESE THINGS THERE. SO, RIGHT. THE, UH, I, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, MY PARTICULAR FOCUS HAS BEEN 20 AND, UH, MR. ALEXANDER'S BEEN DOING THE OTHER RANGE, BUT, UH, I BELIEVE THEY'RE TO, UH, [00:35:01] SIGNIFY THE ENTRY TO THE BUILDING THERE. OKAY. BECAUSE IT JUST LOOKS, THERE'S A LOT OF THING. I MEAN, IT'S, UH, I'M SURE MR. ALEXANDER HAD A REASON WHY HE WAS DOING THAT IS JUST HARD TO VISUALIZE HOW, 'CAUSE THERE BE DIFFERENT LEVELS IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAT THEY LINE UP. SO FOR ME, WHEN I LOOKED AT IT, IT, IT, IT LOOKED A LITTLE JUST, IT LOOKED A LITTLE STRANGE FOR ME. SO YEAH, I'LL ASK HIM. OKAY. BRING THAT UP. OKAY. WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THE PLAN. I, I GET THAT. SO THOSE ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE TWO OR THERE'S THREE, FOR ME AT LEAST MAKES IT THAT IT'S KIND OF SYMMETRIC. AND THEN WHAT, WHAT IS IT, THE PARK, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE LIGHTS FACING THE PARKING LOT? WHAT ARE THEY KIND OF THERE FOR? SO HOW MUCH LIGHT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO THROW OUT AND ARE THEY THERE TO LIKE, MAKING SURE PEOPLE WILL TRIP OVER SOMETHING? ARE THEY REALLY THERE TO LIGHT THAT UP, UP UPPER, UPPER WALKWAY OR JUST KIND OF WHAT THEY'RE THERE FOR THE, THE PARKING LIGHTS? YEAH. WELL THEY SIT ABOVE THE, THE, THEY SIT, AS YOU SAY, THEY SIT KIND OF HIGH, SO, RIGHT. YEAH. ARE THEY THERE FOR THAT OR SOMETHING ELSE? SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO, THERE'S, THEY'RE REGULATED, THERE'S A REGULATED MINIMUM LEVEL OF LIGHTING AND A PARKING AREA. YEP. SO FOR NAVIGATING SAFETY. YES, EXACTLY. SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. OKAY. THOSE ARE MY ONLY QUESTIONS IN THERE. BUT I HAVE TO ADMIT ON THE LIGHTING SIDE, I'M, IT'S A LITTLE UNCLEAR FOR ME ON THE LIGHTING SIDE EXACTLY WHAT IT WILL, WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE AT THE END AND HOW THE LUMENS ARE GONNA, HOW, HOW IT'S GONNA LOOK, UH, THAT YOU MAY, 'CAUSE FOR ME, IF YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE THE, HOW MUCH LIGHT THEY PUT OUT, YOU'RE PROB YOU MAY HAVE TO CHANGE THE FIXTURES, RIGHT? POTENTIALLY. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE MM-HMM. DONE HERE. WE MAY END UP WITH MORE FIXTURES, WE MAY END UP WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF FIXTURES OKAY. TO MEET THE CODE CRITERIA TO TRY TO KEEP THE LIGHT IN THE RIGHT PLACE, BUT NOT OVERS SHINE IN CERTAIN AREAS. AREAS. THAT'S RIGHT. YEP. OKAY. NO, THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. ANYBODY? YEAH. OKAY. NO, UH, NO. I WOULD JUST AGREE. I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY CONFUSING. I, I COULDN'T SEE WHERE THE BOTHERED LIGHTS WERE EVEN MARKED ON HERE. SO I WOULD AGREE MORE DETAIL AS NEEDED. YEAH. SO JUST MAYBE I THINK INTERNALLY FROM A DISCUSSION, ANYBODY HAVE ANY FROM THE MASTER SIGN PLAN WITH THE CONDITION, ANYBODY HAVE AN ISSUE WITH WHAT WE'VE SEEN HERE OR THE CONDITION THAT WE HAVE? UH, FOR THAT? ANY, FOR ME, I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M GOOD. I THINK THE SIGNS LOOK GOOD. I THINK IN GENERAL IT'S A, IT'S A NICE WAY TO SEE AND FIND YOUR WAY IN A COMPLEX, IN A COMPLEX SPOT. RIGHT. UM, FOR THE SECOND ONE ON THE LIGHTS, I, I THINK THE LIGHTING IT WILL COME OUT THOUGH I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME, SO I, I HAVE TO ADMIT, THIS IS JUST ME. I HAVE A HARD TIME SAYING THE NEXT LIGHTING SHOULD BE ADMINISTRATIVE. UH, UH, FOR ME, I DON'T LIKE TO ADD MORE BURDEN ONTO THE, UH, PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THIS, BUT MY KIND OF PERSONAL THOUGHT IS SOMEHOW I THINK IT, IT FEELS LIKE IT COULD CHANGE FAIRLY SIGNIFICANTLY. I'M NOT SURE. BUT, UH, SO, WELL, I GUESS, I GUESS, UM, STAFF IS GONNA, IS GONNA DO A COMPLETE REVIEW OF WHAT'S PRESENTED AND STAFF IS WELL ADVISED OF THE CODE AND WHAT MEETS CODE. AND SO, I MEAN, I WOULD, I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE KNOWING THAT STAFF IS GONNA COMPLETELY APPROVE THIS ADMINISTRATIVELY AND THEY KNOW WHAT THE CODE IS AND WE TRUST THAT. I'M NOT SURE THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IT HAVING TO COME BACK, BUT IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING? I MEAN, FOR ME, I MEAN FOR ME, MY FIRST THOUGHT IS 'CAUSE IF IT, IF IT POTENTIALLY FOR ME COULD, IS GONNA CHANGE A LOT AND IF THERE'S SOME AREA WHERE THERE'S AN ISSUE, BETWE, IF YOU COME TO A SPOT HERE THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, THAT I, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WILL OR WON'T, BUT IT GIVES THE APPLICANT A CHANCE TO COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, I DIDN'T AGREE WHAT WE'RE, HOW WE WERE MOVING HERE AND HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE GET TO A FINAL RESOLUTION? SAY, OKAY, WE APPROVE IT AT ONCE. RIGHT. THAT, THAT'S KIND OF THE WAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT. SO WE NOW HAVE IN OUR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL CRITERIA AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUMP UP AN ADMINISTRATIVE REQUEST TO THE BOARD IF WE GET STUCK OKAY. BETWEEN STAFF AND THE APPLICANT. OR IF THE APPLICANT NEEDS A WAIVER FOR SOME REASON, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY CANNOT MEET THE CODE, IT WILL HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE YOU. OKAY. SO IF EITHER OF THOSE TWO CONDITIONS HAPPEN, WE WILL BE BACK BEFORE YOU. OKAY. THEN FOR ME, IF, IF, IF THERE'S, I MEAN, SAME THING. I GUESS THE, THE APPLICANT CAN ALSO SAY, I DON'T, I HAVE AN ISSUE. I'D LIKE TO GO BACK AND CHAT IT. SO IF THERE'S AN ISSUE COMES EITHER WAY AND IT CAN END UP BACK HERE. OKAY. IT CAN GO EITHER WAY. YES. YEP. THEN I'M, THEY CAN REQUEST TO COME BEFORE YOU MM-HMM . THEN I'M, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. MARK, YOU OKAY? YOU GOOD? OKAY. AND I THINK ANY FINAL OKAY, PERFECT. THEN I COULD, UH, I THINK WE HAVE TWO MOTIONS HERE. I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY HAVE TWO MOTIONS. YES, WE SHOULD. YEAH, I THINK SO. IF WE COULD, UM, WANNA DO THE MASTER PLAN FIRST? YEAH, LET'S DO THE MASTER SIGN PLAN FIRST. OKAY. WELL, UH, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MASTER SIGN PLAN WITH THE ONE CONDITION. [00:40:01] PRIOR TO SUBMITTING THE BUILDING PERMIT, THE APPLICANT SHALL SUPPLY STAFF WITH THE SAMPLE OF THE MATERIAL PROPOSED FOR THE LETTERING AND THE SIGNS FOR STAFF APPROVAL OR PROPOSED MATERIAL THAT IS REGULARLY APPROVED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. I SECOND MR. KOTTER? YES. MR. DEL? YES. DR. ULTI? YES. MS. PAT MCDANIEL? YES. AND THEN SIR, JUST BEFORE I GO TO THE NEXT ONE, IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS I FORGOT TO ASK BEFOREHAND? SORRY ABOUT THAT. THERE WEREN'T. OKAY, GOOD. THANK YOU. UH, SO NOW IF WE COULD MOVE ON TO THE, UH, WHAT DO WE CALL THIS? THE, UH, APPROVAL OF THE SECOND MINOR PROJECT REVIEW FOR THE YEAH. ON UH, CASE 25 DASH 1 21. I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WITH ONE CONDITION PRIOR TO INSTALLATION OF ANY LIGHTING, THE APPLICANT MAY, UH, SHALL SUPPLY STAFF WITH COMPLETE AND APPROVABLE LIGHTING INFORMATION THAT MEETS ALL REQUIREMENTS UNDER CODE 1 53 DASH 1 73 J LIGHTING AND GUIDELINES SECTION 6.7 LIGHTING. THIS LIGHTING SHALL BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY. SECOND. MR. KOTTER? YES. MR. SEL? YES. DR. ULTI? YES. MS. PAT MCDANIEL? YES. THANK COMMUNICATIONS. [COMMUNICATIONS] I THINK WE HAVE A FEW, I HAVE A NUMBER OF THEM TONIGHT SINCE WE HAVEN'T MET FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS. UH, FIRST OF ALL, YOU RECEIVED THE REVISED 2025 VERSION OF THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS DOCUMENT IN YOUR PACKET AND THIS IS, UM, A COMPENDIUM OF MATERIALS THAT HAVE BEEN GRANTED WAIVERS SINCE 2021. AND EACH YEAR WE UPDATE WITH MATERIAL WAIVERS THAT WERE PROVIDED IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR. SO YOU NOW HAVE THAT UPDATE IN YOUR ONBOARD PACKET. AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE A, UM, PRINTED COPY, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I'D BE HAPPY TO SUPPLY THAT. ON THAT SAME VEIN, TI SINGH AND I ARE APPLYING ON THE BOARD'S BEHALF TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PRESERVATION COMMISSIONS FOR TWO AWARDS. THE FIRST ONE IS FOR THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS DOCUMENT, AND THE SECOND ONE IS FOR THE CODE UPDATES THAT WE DID IN LATE 2024. SO KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED. WE SHOULD KNOW BY MAY IF WE RECEIVE ANY OF THOSE RECOGNITIONS. THE ANNUAL TOUR WAS ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FOR THE 8TH OF APRIL, WHICH SEEMS A LITTLE BIT EARLY. WE HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION OVER THIS WINTER, AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE. AND WE'D LOVE TO GET ANOTHER CONSTRUCTION SEASON IN AND ALSO GIVE SOME OF THE NEWER MEMBERS TIME TO BE MORE FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE MIGHT GO SEE. WE WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE, UH, SEPTEMBER 16TH AS AN ALTERNATE DATE. , I THINK THAT'S A TRADITION. IT MUST RAIN . IT WORKS WELL FOR ME. 16TH. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. 16TH. PERFECT. AND WE WILL, WE WILL SEND OUT AN AGENDA AND IT'S, IT'LL BE A, A BUS RIDE WITH A LITTLE BIT OF WALKING AND A MAP AND, UM, SOME SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. SAME THING. START AROUND SIX. YES. OKAY. SO THIS IS THE EVENING. YEAH, IT'S AN EVENING. OKAY. YEAH. AND IT'S JUST WE GO AROUND, LOOK AT SOME PAST STUFF AND SEE HOW, HOW ALL OF THE, WHAT WAS APPROVED. YEAH. RIGHT. HOW LOOKS AND HOW IS MOVING. OKAY. MM-HMM . YEAH. THAT, THAT WORKS FOR ME. IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN AND SEE YES. WHAT WE LIKE, WHAT WE MAYBE DON'T LIKE OR THINGS WE MIGHT HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY. RIGHT? YEP. ALL RIGHT. UM, I'VE GOTTEN SOME REQUESTS FOR UPDATES ON DONATOS PIZZA. WE HAD A LITTLE ALTERCATION WITH A STOLEN CAR BUILDING STANDARDS GOT INVOLVED IMMEDIATELY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BUILDING WAS SHORED UP SAFELY. WE HAVE HAD SOME, UM, PROFESSIONAL HISTORICAL MASONS INVOLVED WITH THE PROJECT AND [00:45:02] WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY THOUGHT TO REQUIRE CMU WITH A STONE FACE TO SUPPORT THE PROPERTY HAS NOW THANKFULLY BEEN DETERMINED THAT THEY CAN USE JUST THE ORIGINAL STONE. IT WILL BE STRONG ENOUGH THEY CAN, THEY CAN DO IT TO MEET ALL STRUCTURAL REQUESTS. SO THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. WOW. GREAT. YES. MM-HMM . YEAH. UM, AND THAT IS CONSIDERED MAINTENANCE, SO IT WILL NOT BE, BE COMING BEFORE YOU MAINTENANCE FROM AN UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT. , WHAT'S CMU CONCRETE MASONRY UNITS SO OFTEN CALLED CINDER BLOCK CONCRETE. YEP. AND THEN JUST A REMINDER FOR EVERYBODY, SECOND SUNDAYS AT DUBLIN HISTORICAL SOCIETY, OUR OWN DR. ST. SCHULTE IS GONNA BE PRESENTING ON THE 8TH OF MARCH AT FOUR O'CLOCK AT THE LIBRARY ON THE HISTORY OF MEDICINE IN DUBLIN. AND ACTUALLY IT APPLIES TO THE BUILDINGS. UH, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THE TERIYAKI MADNESS AND MM-HMM . THE VARIOUS BUILDINGS, DR. MCKITRICK BUILDING AND DR. CARR'S BUILDINGS. AND, UH, SO IT, IT ACTUALLY IS RELATABLE TO WHAT WE DO SO, AND PURPOSEFULLY. YEAH. IT SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING. AND THAT'S ALL THE ANNOUNCEMENTS I HAD, UNLESS THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS. I JUST HAD MAYBE ONE MORE QUESTION. SO ON NOW IN, UM, IN, NOW I CAN'T REMEMBER THE WHITE HOUSE. IT'S ON BRIDGE STREET THAT'S GONNA BE REDONE. I FORGET WHAT NUMBER IT IS ON NORTH BRIDGE. ON THE, ON NORTH RIVERVIEW. OH YES. BRIDGE THE WHITE. I SEE NOW THERE'S WINDOWS, BRO. I MEAN, THAT THING, IT START TO LOOK PRETTY ROUGH AROUND THE EDGES. YES. I DON'T KNOW WHERE, WHERE, WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BE ON THE BUILDING PERMIT, BUT I WALK BY THE OTHER AND I'M LIKE, OOF, THIS THING MIGHT, THANK YOU. FALL DOWN FOR REMINDING ME. YEAH. SO, UM, THE GENTLEMAN WHO WAS INVOLVED IN 17 AND 27 NORTH RIVERVIEW MM-HMM . HAS NOW TAKEN OVER CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT FOR THAT PROPERTY FOR WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY KNOWN AS 40. AND THEY ARE STARTING TO WORK ON IT. OH, GOOD. OKAY. THEY ARE AWARE THAT THERE ARE BROKEN WINDOWS, BUT THEY'VE BEEN DOING SOME, I'M, I'M NOT SURE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THERE. I THINK IT'S INITIAL DEMOLITION. SO THEY PROBABLY WANTED SOME VENTILATION AND SO THEY HAVEN'T OKAY. FORWARDED IT OUT. SO THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING ON THERE. 'CAUSE THEY, THEY ARE, IF IT STAYS LIKE THAT, THEY'RE, THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD. PERFECT. OKAY. THE INTENT IS THAT IT'S FINISHED PROBABLY BY SUMMER. OH, OKAY. WHICH WILL BE A BIG, SO IT'S STILL THE SAME OWNER, BUT A PROJECT, DIFFERENT PROJECT MANAGER IS TAKING IT OVER, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. YEP. THE, THE STONE WALL THAT'S AT THE WEST END IS, IS THAT OWNED BY THE CITY? I THOUGHT, THOUGHT I AT THE WEST THAT IT WAS, IT'S WHERE THE ALLEY, WHATEVER THE ALLEY STREET THERE IS YES. ACROSS FROM THE PIZZA SHOP THAT YES, IT'S LEANING AND I WONDER WHAT THE WE KNOW AND ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THAT. THAT IS WITHIN THE CITY'S HIGHWAY EASEMENT. AND I THINK WE DID DETERMINE THAT THE CITY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT. UM, BASSAM OR I CAN, YEAH, PROBABLY WEIGH IN PLEASE. I DIDN'T SWEAR IN, BUT, UH, THIS IS INFORMATION. UH, I'M, I'M GUESSING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE WHERE IT DROPS, UH, THE LIKE AN EIGHT FOOT DROP DOWN THE YES. THAT, THAT IS OWNED BY THE CITY. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE AWAY, BUT THERE'S A MAJOR, UH, PROJECT THAT THE CITY AND KATCH ARE DOING IN THAT VICINITY. SO THAT ENTIRE STRETCH OF BLACKSMITH, UH, LANE WILL BE REDONE AND THAT WALL IS GONNA BE THE, THERE'S GONNA BE A SIDEWALK CLOSE TO IT. AND THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL INVESTIGATIONS IN TERMS OF THE STABILITY OF THAT WALL. AND I THINK THE DETERMINATION WAS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S LEANING A LITTLE BIT, THAT IT'S STABLE AND IT'S, UH, BETTER TO LEAVE IT THAT WAY, THEN TRY TO MESS WITH IT. SO THERE WILL BE A GUARDRAIL THOUGH, BECAUSE THE SIDE, THERE WOULD BE A SIDEWALK INTRODUCED IN THAT LOCATION AND SO THERE WILL BE A GUARDRAIL TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS SAFE. AND THEN THE INTENT IS TO KEEP AN EYE ON IT, UH, DURING CONSTRUCTION AND AFTERWARDS TO SEE IF ANYTHING ELSE IS NEEDED AT THAT POINT. I WONDER, DO WE KNOW IF THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE WPA 1 61 BRIDGE WAS PUT IN THE I BELIEVE IT WAS, YES, BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL BRIDGE THAT, UH, WAS IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ALIGNMENT. SO WHEN THE, UH, WPA BRIDGE [00:50:01] WAS BUILT IN THE THIRTIES, UH, THAT WAS PART OF KINDA RAISING THE GRADE A LITTLE BIT. SO YES, IT WAS PART OF IT. GOOD. ANY FOLLOW UP? THE ONLY LAST ONE IS THANK YOU FOR VICE CHAIR. I'M NOT HERE NEXT MONTH. SO IT'S UH, JUST TO THROW, UH, THROW RIGHT INTO THE FIRE. ABSOLUTELY. AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FROM, I DO HAVE ONE OTHER GENERAL QUESTION. YES. IF I COULD, UM, ABOUT LIGHTING IN GENERAL. UM, THE BOLLARDS PERSONALLY, I'M NOT A HUGE FAN OF THOSE. MAYBE EVERYBODY ELSE IS, I DON'T KNOW. BUT DO, DO, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE CODE? AND IF THERE ISN'T, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS WHY, UH, THAT CAST LIGHT DOWN MORE THAN JUST OUT? YES, THERE IS. AND IT'S CALLED, UM, A DARK SKY PROVISION OR A FULL CUTOFF FIXTURE. AND WE HAVE CHECKED ALL OF THESE FIXTURES FOR THAT. BUT I MEAN, IS THAT AN OPTION FOR THOSE INSTEAD OF THOSE BOLLARDS? OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. MORE OF A, A DIFFERENT FIXTURE. YEAH. WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO WITH THOSE PARTICULAR BOLLARDS, SINCE THE LINE BETWEEN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY AND THE SIDEWALK AND THIS ENTRY PLAZA IS BLURRED, WE WERE TRYING TO MATCH THEM EXACTLY SO THAT IT FELT MORE PUBLIC AND WELCOMING. UM, I CAN CERTAINLY CHECK AND SEE IF, IF THE BOARD IS INTERESTED, IF LOOKING AT THAT. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I AM, I DON'T KNOW IF THE REST OF THE BOARD IS, I, YOU KNOW, IT'S A GOOD IDEA NOT TO HAVE THE LIGHT JUST SHINING UP. AND I JUST HAVE ALWAYS FOUND THAT THE BOLLARDS ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF GLARE THERE. OTHER ONES THAT ARE CROSSWALK LOCATIONS AND I JUST WONDER HOW WELL THEY FUNCTION. IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE THE CROSSWALK, DO YOU WANT THE LIGHT SHINING IN YOUR EYES OR DO YOU WANT THE LIGHT SHINING DOWN ON AGREED, THE CROSSWALK? AGREED. AGREED. WE CAN CERTAINLY SEE IF THE LUMENS CAN BE ADJUSTED SUCH THAT WE DON'T NEED THE, UM, FULL CUTOFF FIXTURE THAT IS AN ALLOWANCE IN THE CODE. WE CAN ALSO SEE IF WE CAN'T GET LIKE A FROSTED LENS FOR THAT TO HELP TEMPER THAT A LITTLE BIT. MM-HMM . AND WE CAN SEE IF THERE ARE ANY BAFFLES THAT COULD BE INSTALLED. OKAY. YEAH. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. YEAH, GOOD. IF EVERYBODY'S GOOD. SO THEN I SAY MOVE OR WE'RE ADJOURNED. OKAY. DID YOU, YOU SAID WE HAVE NOTHING ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT MONTH. NO. YEP. WE DON'T. SO YOU MIGHT GET, YOU MIGHT GET, YEAH. SO ADJOURNED. OKAY. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.