[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:02]
GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, INCLUDING COMMENTS ON CASES.
AT THIS TIME, IF YOU WILL ALL PLEASE STAND AND JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
THANK YOU, MISS MAXWELL. WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? MR. ALEXANDER? HERE, MISS. CALL HERE. MR. CHINNOCK HERE.
MR. DESHLER HERE. MR. GARVIN. HERE. MISS HARTER HERE.
[ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS AND APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
THERE ARE NO MINUTES TO APPROVE FOR THIS WEEK.SO MOVED. THANK YOU. MR. WAY. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND? THANK YOU, MR. ALEXANDER. MISS MAXWELL, MR. CHINNOCK. YES. MR. WAY. YES, MISS HARTER. YES.
MISS KAUL. YES. MR. ALEXANDER. YES. MR. GARVIN.
YES. MR. DESHLER. YES. THANK YOU, MISS MAXWELL.
IN SUCH CASES, CITY COUNCIL RECEIVES RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMISSION.
IN OTHER CASES, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HAS THE FINAL DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY.
AFTER THE STAFF ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATION, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WILL BE FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF BOTH THE APPLICANT AND OF STAFF. FOLLOWING THOSE QUESTIONS, WE WILL ALLOW FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WILL DELIBERATE ON EACH CASE.
ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE INVITED TO COME FORWARD.
PRESENTLY, WE DO REQUEST THAT YOU KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES.
ANYONE INTENDING TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION MUST BE SWORN IN.
PLEASE, IF YOU INTEND TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION.
IF YOU WILL PLEASE STAND, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THIS COMMISSION? YOU MAY BE SEATED. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, WE WILL PROCEED WITH OUR FIRST CASE.
[Case #25-042CP]
CASE 25 042 CP. THIS IS A REQUEST FOR REVIEW AND NON-BINDING FEEDBACK FOR A FOUR STORY, 75 UNIT MULTIFAMILY BUILDING AND ASSOCIATED SITE IMPROVEMENTS. THE APPROXIMATELY ONE AND A HALF ACRE SITE IS ZONED BSD ESSEN.BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT SITE. SAWMILL CENTER NEIGHBORHOOD AND IS LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE, BETWEEN WEST DUBLIN-GRANVILLE ROAD AND BANKER DRIVE.
AND YOUR MICROPHONE IS NOT CURRENTLY ON. WONDERFUL.
JENNA KESSLER, SEVEN SEVEN, FIVE YARD STREET, COLUMBUS, 43212.
HELLO, MY NAME IS RUSS GARBER. I'M WITH MA DESIGN.
MY ADDRESS IS 775 YARD STREET, COLUMBUS, OHIO 43212.
AND I'M MARK DUNHAM, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ALL INCLUSIVE LIVING.
MY ADDRESS IS 1840 MINTWOOD PLACE, NORTHWEST WASHINGTON, DC.
OUR COLUMBUS ADDRESS FOR ALL IN IS 215 NORTH FIFTH STREET, SUITE 600.
JUST A QUICK INTRODUCTION. ABSOLUTELY. THANKS.
[00:05:02]
I DID WANT TO OFFER SOME OPENING COMMENTS. VERY BRIEF.ALL INCLUSIVE LIVING IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT SOME OF YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH.
ALL IN FOR SHORT. OUR MISSION IS TO EXPAND INCLUSIVE HOUSING OPTIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES, AND WE'RE VERY EXCITED THAT THE FIRST PROJECT, BASED ON OUR INCLUSIVE HOUSING CONCEPT, IS POTENTIALLY ON ITS PATH TO BEING DEVELOPED HERE IN IN DUBLIN. AFTER YEARS OF EFFORT, WE HAVE ASSEMBLED A GREAT CONCEPT THAT WILL SERVE FOLKS WITH DISABILITIES AND OLDER ADULTS AND ALLOW THEM TO LIVE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY ARE AMONG PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT AGES AND ABILITIES.
TFG HOUSING RESOURCES AND THE COLUMBUS METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY ARE OUR KEY PARTNERS ON THIS INITIATIVE, WHICH IS ALSO SUPPORTED BY A NUMBER OF OF FOLKS FROM DUBLIN, IN FACT, MEMBERS OF OUR BOARD AND OTHER OTHER SUPPORTERS, AND WE FEEL CONFIDENT THAT WE'VE GOT A WONDERFUL CONCEPT THAT WILL ADD TO YOUR ALREADY WONDERFUL CITY.
BUT WE DO LOOK FORWARD TO ENGAGING YOU AROUND THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT MATTER THIS EVENING.
OVER AT THIS SITE I DID WANT TO OFFER DAN AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY A QUICK WORD.
NO. YES. NOW, WE'RE JUST PLEASED TO BE HERE, AND I WORK AS A SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF DEVELOPMENT WITH THE PIZZUTI COMPANIES BY DAY. I VOLUNTEER MY TIME AND RESOURCES TO THE ALL INCLUSIVE LIVING BOARD WITH SEVERAL OTHERS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE THERE AS WELL. SO AS A RESIDENT, A FATHER, AN ADVOCATE WHO SERVES ON OTHER BOARDS FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH AUTISM AND OTHER DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES. I YOU KNOW, I REALLY GET BEHIND AND FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT OUR MISSION TO TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THE DISABLED COMMUNITY.
I THINK IT'S A REALLY UNDERSERVED SEGMENT OF OUR POPULATION.
SO THE SITE PLAN THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE, THIS IS OUR PROPOSED BUILDING ON THE SITE.
JUST TO ORIENT YOU NORTH IS PLAN, RIGHT? SO CURRENTLY NORTH OR UP ON THE SCREEN IS TO THE WEST TOWARDS BRIDGE PARK. THE SITE WE ARE LOOKING AT, DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE AND THE INTERSECTION WITH 161.
WE'VE ORIENTED THE BUILDING HERE ALONG THOSE TWO MAIN STREET FRONTAGES.
I'M GOING TO CLICK THROUGH THESE. VERY QUICKLY.
SO THIS IS LOOKING FROM THE INTERSECTION AT 161 AND DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE.
SO THAT MAIN FEATURE THIS CORNER, WE'VE OPENED IT UP.
THE MAIN GOAL HERE IS REALLY TO ACCENTUATE THAT GATEWAY FEATURE.
REALLY ACTIVATE THE CORNER. YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE A LOT OF STOREFRONT AT THE STREET LEVEL.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S TO JUST INCREASE ENGAGEMENT ALONG THE STREETSCAPE ELEMENTS.
YOU CAN SEE HERE WE'RE STARTING TO SHOW LANDSCAPING.
SO AGAIN, JUST REALLY ACTIVATING THIS WHOLE AREA FOR THE FACADE, YOU'LL SEE WE'RE SHOWING A LOT OF BRICK MAINLY BRICK WITH SOME FIBER CEMENT SIDING UP ON THAT FOURTH LEVEL. AND HERE'S A BIRD'S EYE VIEW TO GIVE YOU A LARGER PICTURE.
SO IN THIS VIEW PLAN SOUTH, IF YOU WILL. THAT'S 161 TO THE LEFT OF THE BUILDING.
THAT'S DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE, THE BUILDING THAT YOU CAN SEE BEHIND US.
THAT'S THE FIFTH THIRD BANK OFF TOWARDS THE BACK.
SO AGAIN, REALLY ACTIVATING THAT CORNER USING THOSE STREET FRONTAGES UP OFF BANKER DRIVE, THAT IS WHERE THE VEHICULAR ENTRANCE IS. SO TUCKED AWAY TOWARDS THE BACK SIDE OF THE SITE TO GET INTO THE PARKING LOT.
AND THAT IS AN OVERVIEW. I WANT TO GO OVER THE SECOND.
SURE. I WILL JUMP BACK TO THE SITE PLAN IF I CAN.
SO HERE WE'RE LOOKING AT THE LANDSCAPE PLAN. SO AGAIN NORTH ON THIS PAGE IS TO THE RIGHT.
[00:10:02]
WE HAVE A NICE CIRCULAR PARKING LOT THAT WAY.SO THAT IS THAT OPEN CORNER ELEMENT WE HAVE. YOU CAN SEE AGAIN, STARTING TO LOOK AT LANDSCAPE FEATURES AND WAYS THAT WE CAN ACTIVATE THE CORNER TOWARDS THE RIGHT OF THE PAGE WHERE IT SAYS SEATING AREA.
WE'RE STARTING TO LOOK AT THAT BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A GREEN AREA, A LITTLE BIT OF A QUIETER SIDE OF THE SITE, BUT STILL PROGRAMING THAT WITH A PLACE THAT YOU COULD SIT AND ENJOY THE OUTDOORS.
YEAH. IS THAT THE CONCLUSION OF YOUR PRESENTATION THIS EVENING? THANK YOU. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MR. GUITAR. I'LL TURN THE TIME OVER TO YOU FOR STAFF ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATION.
A FEW NOTES ABOUT THE APPLICABLE CODE REQUIREMENTS AND PLANS FOR THIS AREA, AND THEN FRAME A FEW QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES AND BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AFTER THAT.
SO THIS IS AT THE VERY EARLY STAGES. IT'S A CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW.
AND THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT THAT IS A STEP WHERE IT'S NON EXCUSE ME, NON-BINDING FEEDBACK.
ONE IS A PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN. ONE IS THE FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
SO AT THIS POINT, THE INTENT IS TO LOOK GENERALLY AT LAND USE AND DENSITIES, GENERAL SITE LAYOUT, ACCESS AND CIRCULATION, OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK AND THOSE TYPES OF GENERAL DETAILS.
THE SITE IS JUST WEST OF SAWMILL ROAD, SO IT IS AT THE EASTERN EDGE OF THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT.
SO YOU'LL SEE THAT RIGHT NOW IT'S UNDEVELOPED, EXCEPT FOR A PARKING LOT THAT PREVIOUSLY SERVED THE FIFTH THIRD BANK SITE, AND THAT DOES INCLUDE A CURB CUT ALONG DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE.
SO THE THIS LOT HAS NOT BEEN USED FOR A LONG TIME.
IT IS WITHIN THE MIXED USE URBAN FUTURE LAND USE AS IDENTIFIED IN THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
AS YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN, THE PRINCIPAL USES IN THERE ARE INTENDED TO PROVIDE A STRONG MIX OF DIFFERENT URBAN ORIENTED USES WITH ORIENTATION TOWARDS THE STREET GENERALLY BUILDINGS 3 TO 6 STORIES IN HEIGHT, URBAN OPEN TYPE SPACES AND STREETSCAPE THAT PROMOTES GRIDDED STREET NETWORKS, SO THE INTENT THERE IS TO TRANSFORM THE AREA FROM MORE OF AN AUTO ORIENTED SUBURBAN ENVIRONMENT TO A MORE WALKABLE, HIGHER DENSITY ENVIRONMENT.
ENVIRONMENTS, SO PARKING IS ENCOURAGED TO BE EITHER IN STRUCTURED PARKING OR BEHIND BUILDINGS.
IT'S ALSO WITHIN THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT SPECIAL AREA PLAN AND SPECIFICALLY WITHIN SUBAREA B.
AGAIN, THIS IS THE FAR EAST SIDE OF THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT, AND ONE OF THE KEY ELEMENTS THERE IS BRIDGE STREET OR DUBLIN-GRANVILLE ROAD IN THIS INSTANCE IS A FUTURE BUS RAPID TRANSIT ROUTE.
AND SO SOME OF THE CONSIDERATIONS THERE ALSO REVOLVE AROUND PUBLIC TRANSIT, WHICH PROVIDES ALSO FOR SOME BREAKS FROM SOME OF THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN THIS THIS DISTRICT WITHIN THAT AREA PLAN.
AGAIN RESIDENTIAL USES ARE LISTED AS COMPLEMENTARY ONES TO OFFICE AND HOTEL USES.
SO THEY ARE ENVISIONED IN THIS DISTRICT AS WELL.
AND THEN WITHIN THE CODE, THE BRIDGE STREET CODE, IT IS.
THE SITE IS WITHIN THE SAWMILL CENTER NEIGHBORHOOD THAT INCLUDES A VARIETY OF USES.
AGAIN, THE INTENT IS FOR A STRONG MIX OF USES AND PHYSICAL, PHYSICAL, AND VISUAL CONNECTIONS BACK TO THE SURROUNDING AREAS, SO IMPROVED ACCESS AND ACCESSIBILITY FROM SAWMILL ROAD LINKS TO ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOODS AND OPEN SPACES, AND A VARIETY OF BUILDING TYPES AND OPEN SPACES.
EXCUSE ME, OPEN SPACE TYPES WITHIN THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT.
[00:15:03]
THERE'S ALSO A VERY SPECIFIC STREET NETWORK PLAN, AND YOU'LL SEE HOPEFULLY THIS SITE HERE OUTLINED IN BLUE AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THIS DISTRICT, THE DOTTED LINES ARE ENVISIONED FUTURE STREETS.SO YOU COULD SEE THAT TO THE EAST THERE IS A POTENTIAL FUTURE NEIGHBORHOOD STREET.
BANKER DRIVE IS LISTED AS A NEIGHBORHOOD STREET, AND ALL OF THOSE HAVE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF WHAT FRANCE ON A ON A MAJOR OR PRINCIPAL FRONTAGE STREETS. SO WILL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS THEY COME UP.
TECHNICALLY, THE SITE REQUIRES A FEW MORE, BUT WE THINK THAT WE CAN WORK THROUGH SOME ADJUSTMENTS THERE BECAUSE SOME OF THE DRIVE AISLES ARE WIDER THAN THEY NECESSARILY NEED TO BE IN THE CODE, AND THERE MAY BE SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO ALSO LOOK AT WHAT THE ACTUAL NEEDS FOR PARKING AT THIS LOCATION ARE.
BUT THE BUILDING GENERALLY IS FRONTING ON THE TWO STREETS AS REQUIRED WITHIN THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT, WHICH IDENTIFIES A REQUIRED BUILDING ZONE BETWEEN 5 AND 20FT, AND THE BUILDING IS WITHIN THAT.
THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT REQUIRES A MINIMUM FRONTLINE COVERAGE IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH OF THE BUILDING FRONTS ON A ON THE MAJOR STREETS, AND FOR THE MOST PART, THE MEETING. THE BUILDING MEETS IT, EXCEPT FOR SOME OF THE CORNERS THAT BUMP BACK A LITTLE BIT TO PROVIDE FOR SOME VARIETY.
SO IT'S TECHNICALLY LESS THAN THE 75% REQUIREMENT ON DUBLIN GRANVILLE AND DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE.
AND THEN OBVIOUSLY WITH BANKER DRIVE IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN THAT THERE'S THE OPEN SPACE AT THE CORNER AND THEN THE PARKING ON THE NORTH SIDE, WHICH MAKES SENSE FROM A SITE LAYOUT. AGAIN, IF THIS PROJECT PROGRESSES, THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS FOR SCREENING WHEN PARKING IS CLOSE TO THE STREET THAT WE WOULD WORK WITH THEM ON SIMILARLY ANY UTILITIES, STORMWATER, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT A LITTLE MORE CLOSELY IN TERMS OF ACCESS AS PROPOSED.
RIGHT NOW THERE ARE TWO ACCESS POINTS. ONE IS OFF OF BANKER DRIVE THAT YOU SEE HERE WITH THE RED ARROW, AND THAT ONE STAFF HAS CONCERNS ABOUT ITS PROXIMITY TO DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE.
THERE IS ANOTHER ACCESS POINT THROUGH THE PARKING LOT OF FIFTH THIRD BANK, WHERE THERE IS A CROSS ACCESS EASEMENT, AND THE APPLICANT HAS INDICATED WILLINGNESS TO USE THAT AS THE ACCESS POINT TO THIS SITE AND AND NOT USE ONE OFF OF BANKER DRIVE. WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT, OTHER THAN POINTING OUT THAT EVENTUALLY, IF THIS ROAD THAT YOU SEE IN GREEN DOES GET BUILT, THAT'S THE FUTURE NEIGHBORHOOD STREET.
AND SO WE EXPECT BUILDINGS TO FRONT ON BANKER DRIVE AND THAT NEW NORTH SOUTH STREETS.
SO WE JUST WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH THEM ON WHAT THAT MEANS IN THE FUTURE, IN TERMS OF HOW THAT ACCESS POINT COULD WORK WITHOUT COMPROMISING LOCATIONS OF FUTURE BUILDINGS. ONE OTHER OPTION MIGHT BE WHERE THIS WHITE ARROW IS SHOWN.
IT ENVISIONS POTENTIALLY ALLEYS, IF YOU WILL, MID-BLOCK ALLEYS.
AND THAT'S GENERALLY THE LOCATION OF WHERE THAT COULD TAKE PLACE.
AND THEN THE OPEN SPACE PLAN. THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED THE BRIDGE STREET CODE IS VERY PRESCRIPTIVE IN TERMS OF WHAT OPEN SPACE TYPES ARE PERMITTED AND HOW THEY ARE DEFINED. SO IN THIS CASE, THEY ARE PROPOSING A POCKET PLAZA.
AS I MENTIONED, TO TRY TO CREATE THE GATEWAY THAT'S ENVISIONED IN THE IN THE CODE AT THAT LOCATION.
THE SITE TO THE NORTH IS ALSO ENVISIONED AS AN OPEN SPACE, AND I BELIEVE BOTH ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, AS REQUIRED BY TO QUALIFY AS AN OPEN SPACE TYPE.
[00:20:04]
THEY'RE SHOWING ONE INTERNAL TO THE SITE THAT WOULD SERVE SOME OF THE LANDSCAPING AND SOME OF THE INTERNAL FUNCTIONS, BUT WOULD NOT QUALIFY BECAUSE IT'S NOT OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.THAT OPEN SPACE TYPE IS PERMITTED IN THIS DISTRICT, EXCEPT THAT IT DOESN'T MEET THE.
WIDTH OF THOSE GREENWAYS THAT DO NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS.
SO AS THIS PROJECT PROGRESSES. IN TERMS OF THEM ADDRESSING THE MINIMUM AMOUNT, WHICH IS 15,000FT² OF OPEN SPACE BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING, WE WOULD LOOK AT OTHER WAYS TO ACTIVATE THOSE SPACES TO SEE IF WAIVERS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
SIMILARLY, WITH THE PARKING BEING LOCATED CLOSE TO BANKER DRIVE, THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR A STREET WALL AND SOME ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING THAT WE COULD LOOK AT AT THAT TIME. IN TERMS OF THE ARCHITECTURE AS INDICATED, IT IS A FOUR STORY BUILDING WITH BRICK AND CEMENT SIDING. THE CODE FOR IT FITS UNDER THE APARTMENT BUILDING TYPE.
THAT'S ONE OF THE BUILDING TYPES PERMITTED IN THIS DISTRICT AND IN THE CITY CODE.
THE HEIGHT VARIES FROM A MINIMUM OF TWO STORIES TO A MAXIMUM OF FOUR AND A HALF STORIES.
SO THE FOUR STORIES THEY'RE PROPOSING FITS WITHIN THAT HEIGHT RESTRICTION.
THE AREA PLAN ENVISIONS 3 TO 6 STORY BUILDINGS, SO IT ALSO FITS WITHIN THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
SOME OF THE WINDOWS HAVE MORE HORIZONTAL PROPORTIONS.
THE CODE REQUIRES MORE VERTICAL ONES, AND WE THINK THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES IN TERMS OF EITHER SOME ADDITIONAL DESIGN ELEMENTS OR DISTRIBUTION OF MATERIALS AT THE CORNER TO ACCENTUATE THAT GATEWAY ELEMENT, ALONG WITH THE LANDSCAPING AND THE PATIO.
SO AGAIN, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT COULD BE RESOLVED IN THE FUTURE.
AND SO WITH THAT, WE'RE PROPOSING A FEW DISCUSSION QUESTIONS TO GET THE COMMISSION'S OPINION.
ONE IS THE PROPOSED USE. AND IF THE COMMISSION IS SUPPORTIVE OF THAT, USE THE GENERAL SITE LAYOUT, THE ACCESS POINTS, THE OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK, THE ARCHITECTURAL APPROACH, AND ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THE COMMISSION MAY HAVE.
WITH THAT, I'D BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. PORTER. WE WILL HANDLE QUESTIONS FOR BOTH STAFF AND APPLICANT IN TURN.
SO MR. CHINNOCK, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU THIS EVENING. I GUESS ONE OF THE GLARING QUESTIONS ON THIS, I GUESS FOR APPLICANT CAN YOU I MEAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
CAN YOU CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE VISION BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S CLEAR IN THIS ON THE SIDE OF THE SIDE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, DESIGNED FOR, YOU KNOW, WALKABLE, STRONG MIX OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF USES.
THE CONNECTION, THE VISUAL CONNECTION TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES, THE CONNECTION, JUST, YOU KNOW, THE JUST GENERAL CONNECT CONNECTIVITY IS VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS, THIS AREA.
CAN YOU KIND OF TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT PIECE OF THIS? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT IT'S NOT A NOT A MIXED USE HERE.
AND WHERE YOU ARE ON THAT STANDPOINT ABOUT JUST THE GENERALLY THE CONNECTIVITY IN THE AREA.
ARE WE ON? THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, AS, AS YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND IT THIS BEING YOU KNOW, THIS BEING RESIDENTIAL IN THAT AREA, THIS IS ONE OF THE, I THINK FIRST RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS GOING IN THERE.
I THINK, AS JENNA POINTED OUT, LOOKING AT CREATING THE THE GATEWAY FEATURES AT THE CORNERS BEING HAVING THEM BEING OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S A RELATIVELY SMALL SITE AND A RELATIVELY LARGE GEOGRAPHIC AREA.
[00:25:01]
OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THEN I GUESS THIS IS A QUESTION MAYBE FOR, FOR STAFF, THE THE CONNECTION WITH FIFTH THIRD.I KNOW WE DON'T KNOW. IT'S ALL SO SPECULATIVE, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE FIFTH THIRD SPOT? BUT I FEEL LIKE WE'RE KIND OF CREATING A LITTLE BIT OF A SEA OF PARKING BEHIND THERE AS THEY'RE CONNECTED. AND THEN SO I GUESS, CAN WE TALK TO WHAT THAT THE GOAL THERE IS AND THEN ALSO ALONG BANKER DRIVE DOES THAT REQUIRE FRONTAGE AS WELL? BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF AS THIS AS YOU LOOK AT THE, THE LONG TERM HERE AND AS WE'RE KIND OF DEVELOPING THIS, THIS NETWORK, DO WE NEED TO CONSIDER AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION THE FRONTAGE ON BAKER DRIVE? AS MUCH AS WE CONSIDER THE FRONTAGE ON THE OTHER TWO STREETS.
YEAH. SO TECHNICALLY FRONTAGE IS REQUIRED ON ALL STREETS, BUT IT'S IN CASES LIKE THIS WHERE YOU HAVE A SITE OF THIS LAYOUT. GENERALLY THE INTENT HAS BEEN TO FOCUS ON AT LEAST A COUPLE FRONTAGES BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE PARKING AND ACCESS AND SOME CAPACITY. SO WE'VE HAD OTHER PROJECTS ELSEWHERE WITHIN THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT THAT HAD SIMILAR CONDITIONS WHERE THE FOCUS WAS ON THE PRIMARY STREETS.
AND SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, THIS FOR THE MOST PART ADDRESSES THAT.
AGAIN, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE CERTAIN TREATMENTS ALONG BANKER DRIVE TO FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE FOR A PEDESTRIAN RATHER THAN HAVING THE PARKING BEING THE FIRST THING YOU SEE IN TERMS OF THE REST OF THE PARKING.
AT THIS POINT, THE THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF PARKING ALREADY THERE, BUT BECAUSE THIS SITE IS ITS OWN SITE, ITS OWN, IT WILL BE OWNED SEPARATELY. THE WE DON'T KNOW YET WHAT MAY HAPPEN TO THE REST OF THE PARKING ON THE FIFTH THIRD BANK SITE UNTIL THERE IS A PROPOSAL FOR DEVELOPMENT. SO WE THINK IT'S REASONABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE NEEDED PARKING HERE.
AGAIN, AS WE MOVE INTO THE MORE FORMAL STAGES, WE'LL HAVE TO ALL UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH PARKING IS REALLY NEEDED GIVEN THE TRANSIT AND THE FUNCTIONS OF THE BUILDING, AND THEN YOU'RE LEANING TOWARDS THE SINGLE CURB CURB CUT THROUGH THAT.
THAT'S THE PREFERRED FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE.
THAT'S THE PREFERRED SOLUTION AT THIS POINT. WE THINK THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY IS IF THEY CAN MAKE THE CIRCULATION WORK TO USE THE ONE WITH THE THAT STRADDLES THE PROPERTY LINE, BECAUSE IT LEAVES LESS TO WORRY ABOUT IN THE FUTURE IF THAT SITE IS REDEVELOPED.
ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I THAT'S GOOD FOR NOW. THANKS.
THANK YOU, MR. CHINNOCK. MISS HARTER. I JUST HAD A FEW QUESTIONS.
HAVE YOU HAD CONTACT WITH, LIKE, FIFTH THIRD AND SITTING DOWN AND TALKING THROUGH SOME THINGS, OR IS THAT TO BE PROPOSED DOWN THE ROAD? I PERSONALLY HAVE AND I BELIEVE I BELIEVE THAT THE, THE OWNER TEAM HAS THESE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING AND THINGS THAT ARE BEING ENTERTAINED, BUT I PERSONALLY HAVE NOT. THAT MAY HELP OUT A LITTLE OF THE SITUATION.
OKAY. AND THEN HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT, LIKE, BRINGING IN SOME DIFFERENT ARTWORK OR THINGS OF THAT SORT THAT THAT MAY BE INTERESTING TO THAT POINT. SORRY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT ON YOUR LAST QUESTION THAT, YES, WE HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THEM THROUGH, YOU KNOW, CONTINUOUS CONVERSATION REALLY IS PART OF THE PURCHASE AND SALE OF THE PROPERTY.
SO THEY'RE AWARE OF SOME OF THESE REQUESTS AND WE'RE WORKING THROUGH SOME OF THE DETAILS WITH THEM, BUT WANTED TO UNDERSTAND YOUR FEEDBACK AS WE GO BACK TO THEM AND TRY TO WORK THINGS OUT.
THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT'S INTERESTING. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? I KNOW WE'RE IN VERY, VERY EARLY STAGES, BUT SOMETHING TO KIND OF KEEP UP WITH THAT.
I THINK THAT'S A GREAT COMMENT. AND WE'LL DEFINITELY TAKE THAT TO HEART AND TRY TO FIND A WAY TO ACTIVATE THOSE PLACES, YOU KNOW. AND THEN TALKING ABOUT THE TRANSPORTATION IS THERE A BUS LOCATION AT THE, AT THE SITE RIGHT NOW AND OR DO YOU PROPOSE IT NEEDING TO BE MOVED CLOSER? I GUESS THAT MAYBE IS A CITY QUESTION. AND AND WE CAN TALK STAFF, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT AT WHAT POINT MOBILITY AND TRANSPORTATION GETS INVOLVED IN THE APPLICATION, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE HELPFUL FOR THE COMMISSION.
SO EVENTUALLY THERE WILL BE A ROUTE THROUGH THIS CORRIDOR.
IT MAY BE MANY YEARS AS IT MAKES ITS WAY UP TO DUBLIN, BUT THERE ARE ALREADY SOME QUOTA STOPS ON SAWMILL ROAD AND I BELIEVE ON DUBLIN-GRANVILLE ROAD AS WELL. SO THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A CODE OF PARK AND RIDE CLOSER WITHIN BRIDGE PARK.
[00:30:04]
SO IT IS A TRANSIT CORRIDOR ALREADY. OKAY. AND THEN JUST WITH OPEN SPACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT OTHER AMENITIES? MAYBE IT'S DOG PARK OR SOMETHING OF THAT SORT.
ANY THOUGHTS OF THAT AND BRINGING THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER? YEAH, CERTAINLY. WE'RE LOOKING AT LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES.
YOU KNOW, WE ARE, AS RUSS MENTIONED, WE'RE WE'RE THIS IS A SMALLER SITE.
AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WAYS THAT WE CAN REALLY USE THE SPACE THAT WE HAVE FOR MULTIPLE FUNCTIONS.
SO LOOKING AT OUTDOOR SEATING AREAS, WHETHER THAT'S A GARDEN OR LIKE YOU SAID, A DOG PARK OR MAYBE AN AREA WHERE PEOPLE CAN GATHER WITH A FIRE PIT OR A FIREPLACE. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL THOSE THINGS AS WE CONTINUE ON IN THE PROCESS.
SUCH A FLUID AREA TO HAVE WE TALKED ABOUT LIKE STREET PARKING, IS THAT EVEN IN THE EQUATION COMING DOWN, YOU KNOW. YOU KNOW, OFF STREET PARKING AND SO FORTH.
OFF STREET OR ON STREET? ON STREET, ON STREET.
THE THERE WILL BE A PRESENTATION TO COUNCIL, I BELIEVE, COMING UP SHORTLY ABOUT THE EAST BRIDGE STREET CORRIDOR THAT'S BEEN HAS BEEN STUDIED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. I DON'T REMEMBER WITH THIS BEING SO CLOSE TO SUMMER ROAD, IF THERE WOULD BE A PROPOSAL FOR ON STREET PARKING HERE, I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE AGAIN THE BUS RAPID TRANSIT.
CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT? I'M BANKER, I BELIEVE.
THERE'S A STREET WALL. IT'S AN ACTUAL WALL THAT GOES ALONG WITH LANDSCAPING AND OTHER ELEMENTS, SO THAT IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE NOT WALKING OR LOOKING AT THE PARKING LOT.
SO, AND LAST QUESTION YOU DON'T PROPOSE THE SPEED TO CHANGE.
I THINK IT'S 35 NOW WHERE WE ARE WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT ON DUBLIN-GRANVILLE ROAD.
I THINK THAT WILL EVENTUALLY CHANGE. WILL CHANGE.
THANK YOU, MR. WEI. THANK YOU, MISS CARTER. THANK YOU.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE. I'M GOING TO START WITH STAFF FIRST.
AS YOU KNOW, THIS SITE IS KIND OF RAISED UP ABOVE ONE 60 ONE, PROBABLY 3 OR 4FT.
WHAT IS THE GRADE THAT WOULD BE THAT WOULD REFER TO? IS IT THE EXISTING GRADE OR IS IT A GRADE THAT'S ESTABLISHED BY THE STREET ELEVATION.
SO THE LANGUAGE AND THE CODE SAYS SIDEWALK. SO I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS AS WE LOOK AT THE GRADING AND DETAILS, WE'LL HAVE TO UNDERSTAND SO THAT THAT GRADE ALONG 161 WOULD BE BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, CUT OUT AND YOU JUST BRING THE BUILDING DOWN TO THE STREET LEVEL AROUND AT LEAST THE STREET EDGES.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS BEHIND, BUT IS THAT RIGHT? I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE'LL WE DON'T HAVE YET THE GRADING DETAILS TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHERE THE BUILDING IS.
AND SO IF THE BUILDING IS ELEVATED ABOVE THE SIDEWALK LEVEL, GIVEN THE EXISTING GRADE, THAT MAY FACTOR INTO THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY'D BE HELD TO. THE 2.5FT WOULD BE FROM STREET LEVEL ACCESS FROM THE SIDEWALK LEVEL.
YES. STORMWATER MANAGEMENT. I DIDN'T SEE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THAT.
WOULD THAT BE REQUIRED FOR THIS SITE? AND IT WOULD BE REQUIRED.
SO THAT WILL COME ALONG WITH SOME OF THE FUTURE STAGES.
AND THE QUESTION BACK THEN WAS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT SITE DEVELOPS IT? DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE SITE HAS TO ABSORB THEIR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, OR DOES THE BANK ALL OF A SUDDEN HAVE TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM? SO I KNOW THEIR ENGINEERS HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE CITY ENGINEER'S OFFICE, SO WE'LL I DON'T HAVE THAT ANSWER FOR YOU AT THIS POINT, BUT THAT'S DEFINITELY BEEN LOOKED AT. OKAY. THANKS.
BACK TO MR. KINNOCK'S QUESTION ABOUT THE I THINK IT WAS THE CURB CUT WHERE YOU'RE THE CITY IS SUGGESTING THAT THE WHITE ARROW WOULD BE A GOOD COMPROMISE, I GUESS. WOULD THAT STILL WOULD THAT BE A FULL MOVEMENT INTERSECTION? BUT BECAUSE OF THE DISTANCE BETWEEN DOUBLE AND CENTER DRIVE AND THE YELLOW ARROW, WHICH IS THE HYPOTHETICAL NEW STREET?
[00:35:07]
YEAH. I MEAN, AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT COMPLETELY STUDIED THE DETAILS, BUT BASED ON INITIAL REVIEW, WE WOULD EXPECT THAT TO BE SUFFICIENT FOR FULL OKAY, FULL TURN MOVEMENTS.GREAT. THANK YOU. NOW I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT.
I'M INTERESTED IN THE THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS THAT ARE ON THE STREET LEVEL.
AND YOUR DECISION TO DO THAT. AGAIN, IT'S PUTTING PEOPLE VERY CLOSE TO CARS AND YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH ONE 60 1ST MAY GO DOWN IN SPEED, IT'S 45 NOW, IF IT GOES DOWN TO IT'S STILL A FAIRLY HIGH SPEED ROAD.
DID YOU GUYS ALL DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES OF, YOU KNOW, PUTTING PEOPLE AT GRADE WITH FAST MOVING CARS? OKAY. YEAH, I THINK I THINK THE FIRST THING WITH THIS SITE WAS KNOWING WE REALLY NEEDED TO MAXIMIZE UNITS IN ORDER TO GET THE AMOUNT OF UNITS WE WERE LOOKING AT IN THE BUILDING. AND SO ULTIMATELY WE DID TRY OUR BEST TO MAXIMIZE THE COMMON AREA BEING ON THAT FIRST FLOOR SO THAT THERE ARE LESS UNITS. AND THEN ALSO WITH THE STRATEGY OF PUTTING THE PARKING LOT TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE SITE, KNOWING THAT ANY SORT OF IN AND OUT OF VEHICLES DROPPING OFF, THAT WOULD HAPPEN ON THE PROTECTED SIDE OF THE SITE.
I THINK THAT NATURALLY THE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS AND THE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS ALL ALONG THE RB'S THEY HELP THAT JUST TO CREATE THAT BUFFER BETWEEN YOUR PRIVATE HOME AND THE PUBLIC STREET. YOU CAN SEE WE WE AREN'T LOOKING AT BALCONIES ON THIS BUILDING.
WE ARE LOOKING AT WAYS THAT YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU USE SOME SLIDING DOORS WITH JULIET BALCONIES JUST TO INCREASE THE CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE RESIDENTS, BUT WITHOUT HAVING A DEDICATED PATIO OR BALCONY.
THAT, AGAIN, WOULDN'T CREATE ANY SORT OF SAFETY HAZARD WITH RESIDENTS BEING CLOSE TO VEHICLES.
SO DEFINITELY IN CONSIDERATION. YEAH. IF I COULD JUST ADD TO THAT, AMPLIFY THAT A LITTLE BIT, IS THAT I THINK THE INTENT OF THE 2.5FT REQUIREMENT IS FOR THAT VERY REASON, SO THAT THE UNITS ARE ELEVATED UP OFF THE PEDESTRIAN LEVEL.
AND I DO THINK I AGREE WITH YOU, THERE IS SOME GRADE THERE.
AND WE HAVEN'T DONE A GRADING STUDY AT THIS POINT.
AND THE RENDERING DOESN'T IT MAY REFLECT IT SOME, BUT THERE IS A LITTLE MORE GRADE THERE.
AND SO I DO THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THAT AND ELEVATE THE BUILDING.
ALSO, WE DID YOU KNOW, WE IN EVERY BUILDING THERE'S A FINITE AMOUNT OF PROGRAM, RIGHT.
SO WE KIND OF WE WERE WE DID STUDY HAVING, YOU KNOW, WHERE DOES THAT COMMON SPACE GO? DOES IT GO AT YOU KNOW, THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING OR DO WE PUSH IT ALONG? 161 AND SO WHEN YOU START MAKING THESE SORT OF DESIGN TRADEOFFS AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE OF BEGINNING TO ACTIVATE THE SITE AND CREATING THESE PUBLIC ZONES, YOU KNOW, DO YOU WANT TO CREATE A PUBLIC ZONE RIGHT IN FRONT OF A UNIT OR RESIDENTS UNIT? SO WE THOUGHT THE BEST STRATEGY HERE WAS TO PUT THE PUBLIC SPACES OR THE COMMON SPACES, RATHER IN THE IN THE ELBOW OF THE BUILDING.
SO WE FELT THAT WAS THE THE GREATER STRATEGY.
ALSO YOU KNOW, THIS THIS BEING ALONG 161 AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THERE'S FUTURE USES AND THERE'S OTHER CONSIDERATIONS GOING BUT THERE'S ONLY A COUPLE OF UNITS AT, AT THIS FAR END OF THE BUILDING HERE.
AND THE MAJORITY OF THE UNITS ARE OBVIOUSLY ELEVATED OR ARE ALONG THE BACK SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
DID YOU ACTUALLY EXPLORE AN OPTION THAT LIFTED ALL THE RESIDENTIAL UP AND KEPT THE GROUND FLOOR? YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF PUBLIC USES? YOU KNOW, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY THERE'S LOBBY, THERE'S COMMUNITY ROOMS, THERE'S FITNESS ROOMS. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF THINGS IN A IN A RESIDENTIAL ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU COULD INSTILL.
IT COULD EVEN BE SOME KIND OF A COFFEE SHOP OR SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW.
YEAH. I MEAN, I GUESS THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT THE ARCHITECT CAN ANSWER.
[00:40:06]
COMMON SPACE ON THIS BUILDING. AND SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION DIRECTLY, YES, WE DID LOOK AT OTHER AREAS AND OTHER PLACEMENTS, BUT THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH OWNER PROGRAM AT THIS POINT TO, TO TO LOOK AT LIKE A TRUE SORT OF ELEVATED RESIDENTIAL BUILDING WITH ANOTHER USE BELOW.I THINK WE'VE DONE A NICE JOB OF, OF, OF DOING WHAT WE, WHAT WE TO ACTIVATE THAT CORNER AND, AND PUT THE COMMON AREA PROGRAM WHERE WE FEEL IT'S NEEDED.
THANK YOU. YEP. THANK YOU, MR. MAY. MR. ALEXANDER.
JUST JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS. YOU HAVE SOME LARGER UNITS, SOME THREE BEDROOM UNITS.
YEAH. IN TERMS OF THE POPULATION THAT'S SERVED, DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY CHILDREN BEING IN ANY OF THESE UNITS? SO THE POPULATION MIX IS BEFORE YOU ANSWER, MR. BOGGS, CAN YOU ADDRESS THE AGE IF THAT'S SOMETHING WITHIN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S PURVIEW OF THE AGE OF THE RESIDENTS WITHIN THE UNIT? YEAH, THE THE AGE OF RESIDENTS WITHIN A UNIT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE WITHIN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S PURVIEW.
WHY? I'M ASKING THE QUESTION. BECAUSE IF THERE IF THERE WERE GOING TO BE CHILDREN.
THEN YOU MIGHT MODIFY THE BUILDING AND THE SITE CERTAIN WAYS AND MAKE THERE MAY BE CERTAIN CONSIDERATIONS IN THE DESIGN THAT'S THAT RESULTS. SO THAT'S THAT'S WHY I ASK THE QUESTION.
I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER. I JUST WANT TO KNOW. UNDERSTOOD.
COMMISSIONER, THE PROJECT IS REALLY DRIVEN VERY MUCH DRIVEN BY THE NEED TO ADDRESS THE UNMET HOUSING NEEDS OF ADULTS WITH DISABILITIES. SO WE HAVE THAT 25% SET ASIDE OF DEEPLY AFFORDABLE UNITS FOR THAT POPULATION.
WE ALSO ARE. DEVELOPING A PREFERENCE FOR OLDER ADULTS, WHICH WE HOPE WILL ALLOW FOR 40% OF THESE UNITS TO BE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL FOR OLDER ADULTS BECAUSE WE SEE THEM PROGRAMMATICALLY REALLY INTEGRAL TO THE TO THE MISSION.
THE REMAINING UNITS WILL BE WORKFORCE HOUSING FOR INDIVIDUALS AND POTENTIALLY FAMILIES.
CERTAINLY FAIR HOUSING WOULD NOT WOULD ALLOW US TO PROHIBIT THEM, AND WE WOULDN'T WANT TO.
OKAY. THANK YOU. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE WILL BE SIMPLER FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW.
AND AND YET YOU'VE ESSENTIALLY WRAPPED THE BUILDING AROUND.
THERE'S A LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE ELEVATION, BUT YOU REALLY HAVEN'T LOOKED AT HOW YOU DIFFERENTIATE THE BUILDING MASS BASED ON THE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. SO DID YOU THINK ABOUT MAYBE DIFFERENT HEIGHT ON DUBLIN GRANVILLE VERSUS THE SIDE STREET YOU THINK ABOUT.
SO TELL ME ABOUT THAT. I THINK FROM, FROM AN OVERALL MASSING STUDY, WE, WE, WE FEEL GOOD GOOD ABOUT THE MASSING AND IN TERMS OF AGAIN, GETTING THE PROGRAMMATIC REQUIREMENT AND GETTING THE PARKING REQUIREMENT, OPEN SPACES IT DID NECESSITATE A THE FOUR STOREY BUILDING. WE DID LOOK AT MAYBE DOING SOME OF THAT VARYING, VARYING BUILDING HEIGHTS.
MAYBE ONE SECTION GOES UP TO FIVE, THEN WE'RE WE'RE EXCEEDING THE ZONING HEIGHT REQUIREMENT.
I WILL SAY THAT I WOULD AGREE ON SOME REGARDS.
I THINK THAT ON THE ELEVATIONS, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT IN THESE INITIAL SUBMISSIONS, YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS, HEIGHT MASSING WINDOW, FENESTRATIONS MEETING THE MATERIAL REQUIREMENT.
CERTAINLY TAKE INTO ADVISEMENT, YOU KNOW, AS YOU MOVE THROUGH THE NORMAL STAGES OF ARCHITECTURE HOW YOU HOW EACH ELEVATION DEVELOPS UNIQUELY FOR ITS STREET FACADE. SO GREAT COMMENT. CERTAINLY. TAKE IT UNDER ADVISEMENT.
ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. ALEXANDER.
MR. DESHLER. THANKS FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS.
[00:45:02]
HAS THERE BEEN CONSIDERATION FOR ANY TYPE OF UNDERGROUND PORTION FOR PARKING TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE SURFACE LEVEL TO MAYBE CREATE MORE GREEN SPACE? NO, WE DIDN'T WE DIDN'T LOOK AT IT. DO YOU THINK THAT'S A POSSIBILITY? I'M NOT SAYING THE ENTIRETY, BUT I KNOW THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ELEVATION, AND I'M NOT SURE THE SITE STRUCTURE, WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD SUPPORT IT, BUT JUST CURIOUS IF THAT'S IF THAT WAS A POSSIBILITY TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THAT SURFACE LEVEL.I, I THINK THERE BECOMES, YOU KNOW, PRACTICAL CONSTRUCTION CHALLENGES WITH A VERY FLAT SITE LIKE THIS AND ALSO JUST QUITE FRANKLY, ECONOMIC CHALLENGES WITH A WITH A TYPE OF BUDGET AND THE TYPE OF BUILDING IT IS AND, AND, AND A BUSINESS PROFORMA. AND SO I THINK THOSE TYPES OF CONSIDERATIONS PROBABLY ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE ON, ON OUR SIDE OF THE TABLE. I TO BE QUITE, QUITE HONEST, THIS CONSTRUCTION IS VERY EXPENSIVE.
AND. YEAH, GO AHEAD AND FINISH THAT OFF. YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE TRIED TO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH DUBLIN AND THE STAFF TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, AND MEET THE CODE AS WE UNDERSTAND IT AND AS BEST WE UNDERSTAND IT.
AND THAT HASN'T REALLY BEEN BROUGHT UP OR DISCUSSED, DISCUSSED AS SOMETHING YOU KNOW, THAT WE WOULD, WOULD NEED TO LOOK AT IN THIS CASE. SO YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE REASONS, WE DIDN'T REALLY TAKE IT TOO CLOSELY INTO CONSIDERATION, BUT I'LL COME BACK TO THAT. SO, BASSEM, HAS THERE BEEN I KNOW THAT HE SAID THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY DISCUSSION, BUT WHAT'S THE CITY'S POSITION POTENTIALLY ON HAVING SOME KIND OF UNDERGROUND PORTION FOR PARKING, TOO? BECAUSE, AS YOU NOTE IN THE CITY'S REPORT, THERE'S WITH REGARD TO THE GREEN SPACE, THERE'S SOMEWHAT INADEQUATE.
SO I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE CITY'S POSITION ON THAT IS.
YEAH. WE HAVE NOT DISCUSSED UNDERGROUND PARKING.
I THINK THERE ARE SOME CONSIDERATIONS FOR, EXCUSE ME FIRE DEPARTMENT ACCESS AND OTHER THINGS.
SO THAT HAS NOT BEEN SOMETHING WE'VE DISCUSSED AT THIS POINT.
THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THE FIRST PROJECTS IS THAT.
IS THAT FAIR? YES. SORRY. YOU GOT TO COME UP TO THE MIC.
THE FIRST PROJECT FOR ALL INCLUSIVE LIVING. YES.
IT WOULD BE THE CONCEPT THAT WE HAVE DEVELOPED OVER THE COURSE OF SEVERAL YEARS IS ONE THAT'S INFORMED BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT SUCCESSFUL SUPPORTIVE HOUSING MODELS AROUND THE COUNTRY. THERE ARE A COUPLE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE ARE GOING TO BE DEVELOPING IN OTHER PLACES, BUT THIS ONE WILL BE CERTAINLY UNIQUE TO OHIO AND, AND UNIQUE TO CENTRAL OHIO.
AND JUST I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD IT.
YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE GOAL WOULD BE TO HAVE DISABLED ADULTS TO TAKE 25% OF THE THE SPOT.
THAT'S CORRECT. IS THERE HOW IS THAT GOVERNED FROM AN APPLICATION STANDPOINT? SO 25% OF THE UNITS WOULD BE A HARD SET ASIDE OF THOSE UNITS FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.
SO YOU WOULD NEED TO MEET THE CRITERIA FOR THOSE VOUCHERS.
AND ONLY PEOPLE AT WITH QUALIFYING DISABILITIES, ALL DISABILITIES, REALLY, WHO WOULD MEET THE INCOME CRITERIA WOULD BE ALLOWED TO UTILIZE THOSE UNITS. AND WE'RE CONFIDENT I SHOULD SAY AND THIS WON'T COME TO ANY SURPRISE TO THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW THIS, THE DEMAND FOR THOSE UNITS WILL BE VERY HIGH. THIS IS A THIS IS A TERRIBLE CHALLENGE WE'RE DEALING WITH.
I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND SO WITH IS I GUESS LET ME ASK THIS FROM A AND MAYBE YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS FROM A MANAGEMENT ASPECT IS ALL INCLUSIVE LIVING GOING TO BE THEN THE PROPERTY MANAGER AND THEN MAKING THE DECISIONS RELATIVE TO WHO'S APPLICATION IS GOING TO BE ACCEPTED.
OUR PARTNER TFG HOUSING RESOURCES HERE TONIGHT AS WELL.
WILL BE THE DRIVER OF THAT PROCESS, ALONG WITH THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT FIRM THAT WILL BE ENGAGED TO SUPPORT THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, THAT WILL NOT BE ALL INCLUSIVE ROLE, BUT WE WILL HIRE A WELL, TFG WILL HIRE A VERY QUALIFIED PROPERTY MANAGEMENT FIRM WITH REALLY GOOD EXPERIENCE IN THIS PARTICULAR SPACE. THEN I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING ELSE.
YOU SAID YOU WERE SAYING THAT ONCE THE 25% WAS FILLED FOR THE DISABLED ADULTS, THERE WOULD BE THEN A PREFERENCE FOR ANOTHER 40% TO FOR SENIORS. WE'RE WE'RE PURSUING A 40% PREFERENCE FOR OLDER ADULTS.
[00:50:03]
SO THEY WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL TO THOSE UNITS IF THEY'RE NOT RENTED OR LEASED BY OLDER ADULTS WITHIN THE FIRST SIX MONTHS, THEY WOULD GO BACK TO THE GENERAL POPULATION.BUT WE'RE CONFIDENT, GIVEN THE DEMOGRAPHIC AND THE NEED, WE KNOW FROM ALL OF OUR ALL OF OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE CENTRAL OHIO AREA AGENCY ON AGING THAT THERE WILL BE A HIGH DEMAND AMONGST OLDER ADULTS FOR THOSE FOR THOSE UNITS AS WELL, AND THOSE WILL BE AT A HIGHER INCOME LEVEL THAN THE THAN THE DISABILITY UNIT.
WILL THE SAME THEN TYPE OF APPLICATION PROCESS BE FOR THE SENIORS AND FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION? IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, BUT TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, WE'VE SEEN SOME OTHER PROJECTS AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS, A SIMILAR PROCESS AND HAVING A UNIFIED APPLICATION WITH SOME OBVIOUSLY SOME DIFFERENT CRITERIA FOR THOSE POPULATIONS SEEMS TO BE A GOOD WAY TO DO IT EFFICIENTLY, BUT THAT WILL BE REMAIN TO BE REMAIN TO BE SEEN.
OKAY. AND THEN I TAKE IT OBVIOUSLY FROM I WOULD ASSUME FOR MOST OF THIS FUNDING, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME TAX CREDITS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT TO BE ABLE TO PULL SOME OF THE FUNDING FOR THIS PROJECT. THAT'S CORRECT. ARE THERE AND I ASSUME THERE ARE ALSO GOVERNANCE DOCUMENTS THAT GOVERN THE LIMITATIONS ON THE TYPE OF BECAUSE I THINK YOU KIND OF MENTIONED IT THAT YOU HAVE TO. WHO MAKES THE DECISION ON THE 25% AND 40%? IS THERE A GOVERNING BODY THAT YOU HAVE TO APPLY TO TO GET THAT STANDARD SET FOR THE TYPE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING? YOU KNOW, I SINCE WE WERE NOT ENVISIONING THESE QUESTIONS FOR THIS, WE WELCOME THESE.
I'M SORRY. AND THAT'S OKAY IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT. NO, NO. WE ACTUALLY I WANT TO MENTION I'D PREFER TO BRING OUR OUR DEVELOPMENT PARTNER UP, BUT HE'S NOT SWORN IN. DOES HE NEED TO BE TO RESPOND? I DON'T THINK SO. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT AT A VOTING MEETING.
SO I THINK HE'S OKAY. BUT I WANT TO DEFER TO THE CHAIR ON THAT.
I WOULD RECOMMEND IT JUST BECAUSE THEN WE HAVE IT ON THE RECORD.
EVERYONE ELSE WAS SWORN IN. WE'RE TREATING ALL THINGS EQUAL.
THANK YOU. THANKS. AND IF YOU COULD PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
YEAH. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. MY NAME IS BRAD CARMAN.
I'M THE PRESIDENT OF TFG HOUSING RESOURCES. SO WE'RE LOCATED AT 685 SOUTH FRONT STREET, COLUMBUS, OHIO. BUT YOUR QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SET ASIDE FOR SENIORS.
SO WE'RE EXPLORING THAT. WE WOULD HAVE TO GET A LEGAL OPINION TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT COULD HAPPEN.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WITH THE INTENT OF THIS PROJECT AND THE INTENDED NEIGHBORING WITH THE DISABILITY POPULATION THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO NOW, WE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE TO GET A LEGAL OPINION THAT WE CAN DO THAT.
IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU MONITOR THE OTHER UNITS? SO THERE ARE CERTAIN INCOME BANDS THAT ARE SET ASIDE WHEN YOU GET A TAX CREDIT AWARD.
SO WE HAVE 30% UNITS, 4,030% UNITS, 60% UNITS AND 80% UNITS.
IN COLUMBUS, METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY WILL BE IN THE PROJECT LONG TERM FOR 15 YEARS, PROVIDING GUARANTEES. WE'LL WORK WITH THE TAX CREDIT INVESTOR THAT WILL OVERSEE THE OPERATIONS AS WELL.
SO AND MR. DESHLER DOES THAT. SO YOUR LINES OF QUESTIONING, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS ALL GOOD INFORMATION TO KNOW, BUT ARE THERE DETAILS AT THE CONCEPT PLAN FOR THE PROGRAMING, THE FORMAT OR THE BUILDING BLOCKS THAT WOULD AFFECT.
YEAH, I DO HAVE A COUPLE ON THAT. HAS HAS TFG DONE ANY OTHER PROJECTS AROUND CENTRAL OHIO THAT WE COULD TAKE A LOOK AT TO SEE JUST KIND OF COMPARE TO FROM THE MASSING AND THE BUILDING LOCATION AND PARKING? SURE. SO JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY OF OUR COMPANY.
SO TFG HOUSING RESOURCES WAS STARTED ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO, WE ACTUALLY PARTNERED WITH WEST FINCH, WHICH WAS PART OF THE FINCH GROUP, SO HE DID.
HE'S BEEN IN THE INDUSTRY FOR OVER 40 YEARS, AND HE'S DONE OVER $1 BILLION OF DEVELOPMENT.
BUT IN TERMS OF CENTRAL OHIO, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A PROJECT IN NEWARK, OHIO.
IT WASN'T A NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECT, BUT IT WAS A RENOVATION $125,000 A UNIT.
WE COMPLETELY REDID ALL OF THE UNITS, UPGRADED INTERIORS, FLOORING, APPLIANCES.
AND SO WE WOULD DO THE SAME HERE AS WELL. AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE MA AS PART OF THE TEAM. SO.
[00:55:07]
I'M GOOD FOR NOW. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. DESHLER.MR. GARVIN. THANK YOU. REBECCA. I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION.
I BELIEVE THAT KATHY ASKED ABOUT THE BUS STOP.
IS THAT THERE NOW, OR IS THIS SOMETHING WE'RE ENVISIONING IN THE FUTURE? IS THE LOCATION SET? YEAH, THERE IS ALREADY EXISTING BUS STOPS, SO THERE WILL BE DEFINITELY MORE IN THE FUTURE, BUT IT'S WITHIN THE DISTANCE THAT'S PRESCRIBED IN THE CODE FOR THE REDUCTION.
OKAY. AND I ALSO NOTED THAT THERE COULD POTENTIALLY BE AN ISSUE WITH THE 70% IMPERVIOUS LOT LIMIT.
BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE ALSO UP AGAINST ON THE OTHER SIDE, NOT ENOUGH SPOTS.
HOW TO HOW TO PROJECTS LIKE THIS TYPICALLY DEAL WITH THAT INTERACTION.
YEAH. AND IT'S AGAIN, IT'S AT THE PRELIMINARY STAGE.
AND IF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS OKAY WITH THE CIRCULATION.
SO THERE MAY BE OTHER WAYS TO GET BACK TO THE 70% OR IF IT'S OFF BY A REASONABLE MARGIN, THERE'S ALWAYS A WAIVER PROCESS FOR THAT TO TO LOOK AT, AS WE ALSO CONSIDER THE STORMWATER AND ALL THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS.
DOES THAT INCLUDE THAT POCKET PLAZA THAT WAS IDENTIFIED? THAT'S FINE. OKAY. OOPS. EXCUSE ME. LET ME GET BACK TO.
SO ON ON THIS SLIDE, THE AREAS THAT ARE FACING OUTWARDS AND COULD BE PROGRAMED TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE VERY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS IN THE OPEN SPACE TYPES, OR SOME OTHER ACTIVATION THAT WOULD QUALIFY FOR A WAIVER.
THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE LIKELY TO BE COUNTED, THE ONES THAT ARE COMPLETELY INTERNAL TO THE SITE, THAT ARE NOT OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, WOULD NOT COUNT TOWARDS THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE CODE.
OKAY. I'D ASK YOU TO KEEP THIS UP JUST FOR A MOMENT.
WILL A TRAFFIC STUDY BE REQUIRED AT SOME POINT, OR WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO RECOMMEND AT SOME POINT? SO WITH THE ZONING TO THE BRIDGE STREET ZONING, THERE WAS A COMPREHENSIVE TRAFFIC STUDY THAT WAS DONE AT THAT TIME.
AND SO THEY WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A FULL BLOWN TRAFFIC STUDY.
THERE MAY BE SOME TRIP GENERATION QUESTIONS OR THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT ARE TRANSPORTATION MOBILITY STAFF WOULD BE LOOKING AT, BUT NOT A FULL BLOWN TRAFFIC STUDY. SO WOULD THAT AFFECT THE OR BE STUDIED FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF VARIOUS CURB CUT OPTIONS.
PROBABLY NOT IN A MAJOR WAY, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY, AGAIN, THE SPECIFIC LOCATION.
THAT'S OUR SUGGESTION. AT THIS POINT, WE WOULD HAVE TO GET INTO MORE DETAIL TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WORKS, BECAUSE THAT HAS TO ALSO WORK WITH THE INTERNAL CIRCULATION THROUGH THE SITE.
GREAT. THANK YOU, BASIM. AND THEN ONE FOR THE APPLICANT.
SO GIVEN THE FACT THAT THAT INTERNAL OPEN SPACE WOULD BE UNLIKELY TO COUNT TOWARDS YOUR OPEN SPACE NEEDS, HAS THERE BEEN ANY THOUGHT TOWARDS REORIENTING THE BUILDING IN A WAY THAT MIGHT ONE CREATE MORE SPACE FROM 131 OR 161 AND DUBLIN CENTER DRIVE, AND THEN TWO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO PUSH SOME OF THAT OPEN SPACE OUTWARD WHERE IT WOULD COUNT.
YEAH, I MEAN, ALL THE ABOVE. I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S OBVIOUSLY THINGS THAT ALL INTERPLAY, RIGHT.
SO WE'VE HEARD COMMENTS ON BUILDING ACCESS. WE'VE HEARD SUGGESTIONS ON ISLEWORTH.
AND OTHER OTHER COMMENTS THAT CAME HERE TODAY.
SO AS WE, AS WE LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE AND CONSIDER THEM, ALL OTHER OPTIONS BECOME AVAILABLE.
CAN I ANSWER IT RIGHT NOW? NO. BUT WITH ALL OF THE DISCUSSION PRESENTED I THINK THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE WE COULD CERTAINLY EXPLORE TRYING TO CAPTURE MOST OF IT BACK OR ALL OF IT BACK, IF WE CAN.
GREAT. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT FOR NOW.
THANK YOU, MR. GARVIN. JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
[01:00:02]
I'M GOING TO START WITH THE APPLICANT, ACTUALLY.YOU'VE MADE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT ESSENTIALLY GETTING THINGS TO PENCIL.
AND SO THE MAXIMIZING THE QUANTITY OF UNITS. ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT YOU HEARD SOME COVERED PARKING DISCUSSIONS, SOME UNDERGROUND PARKING DISCUSSION. AND THAT WAS NEGATED.
AND THE OPEN SPACE, THE ADDITIONAL PARKING, BY MY COUNT I THINK IT WAS 88 ARE REQUIRED WITH THE REDUCTION, 81 ARE PROVIDED WITH ALL OF THOSE COMPOUNDING REQUIREMENTS.
FROM A CODE PERSPECTIVE, ARE YOU CONFIDENT YOU CAN MEET THOSE? DO WE ARE WE CONFIDENT THAT WE MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS? IS THAT WHAT YOU ASKED THAT YOU COULD MEET THOSE? WE'RE GOING TO CERTAINLY LOOK AT IT. I MEAN, REALLY, IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THE NEIGHBOR ON ACCESS SITE ACCESS, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE SOME A FEW PARKING SPACES? YES. DOES THE DOES THE SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS BROUGHT UP HERE GIVE US OPPORTUNITIES TO MEET THE OPEN SPACE? YES. I MEAN, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT IT. IT'S IT'S IT'S TOUGH.
I MEAN, TO BE HONEST. BUT THE OTHER THING IS, WITH THIS PROPOSED POPULATION YOU KNOW, WE'RE AT 1 TO 1 AND WITH THE, WITH THE SET ASIDES FOR FOLKS WITH DISABILITIES, WE JUST DON'T WE AND ALSO FOR POTENTIALLY FOR SENIORS, WE JUST HONESTLY DON'T HAVE THE AUTOMOBILE TRAFFIC THAT JUST A STRAIGHT MARKET RATE MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING PROJECT WOULD HAVE. SO WHEN WE MADE THIS PROPOSAL, WE MADE THIS PROPOSAL FEELING CONFIDENT THAT THE PARKING WE SUGGESTED MET THE NEEDS OF THE POPULATION FOR THE BUILDING.
SO GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE KIND OF A SPECIAL USE CASE, YOU KNOW, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BUILDING AS A MULTI-USE RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.
HAVE YOU ENGAGED OR HAS SOMEONE FROM YOUR TEAM ENGAGED FOR SHARED USE PARKING AGREEMENT.
UNDERSTANDING THAT YOUR USE CASE IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN A STANDARD MIXED USE.
I CAN'T, I HAVE NOT I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE OWNERS.
THEY'VE BEEN THEY'VE BEEN TALKING BACK AND FORTH WITH THE NEIGHBORS.
I SUSPECT WE WILL BE OKAY. YEAH. SO THIS THIS WAS MENTIONED BEFORE, BUT YOU KNOW, THE THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY BESIDE US, THEY WANTED TO SEE THE OUTCOME OF TODAY.
THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. AND GOING TO STAFF THEN STAFF WITH A RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL USE IN THIS DENSE OF AN AREA WITH THOSE TYPES OF STREETS ADJACENT TO IT HISTORICALLY WITH SAME SIMILAR TYPES OF USES. HAVE WE ALLOWED FOR JUST A SINGLE POINT OF ACCESS? OR HAS THERE BEEN A REQUIREMENT FOR REDUNDANT VEHICULAR ACCESS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY PURPOSES? IN TERMS OF VEHICULAR ACCESS, CORRECT. I BELIEVE THE.
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS LOOKED AT THIS, AND AGAIN, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO MORE STUDY.
BUT THE INITIAL INDICATION IS THEY MAY NOT NEED TO HAVE THEIR APPARATUS ON THE SITE.
THEY MAY BE ABLE TO SERVICE IT FROM THE SURROUNDING STREETS.
SO AT THIS PRELIMINARY LEVEL, I THINK WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH WHERE THIS IS GOING.
WE'LL HAVE TO STUDY IT FURTHER. PERFECT. ARE YOU ABLE TO PUT UP THE MIXED USE DOCUMENT THAT WAS IN THE PRESENTATION? I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT WITH THE MIXED USE.
YES, THERE WE ARE. SO WE HAVE HORIZONTAL MIXED USE AND VERTICAL MIXED USE.
CAN YOU DO WE HAVE A DEFINITION FOR WHAT WE CLASSIFY AS HORIZONTAL VERSUS VERTICAL MIXED USE.
IS IT ON A SINGLE PARCEL. IS IT ACROSS MULTIPLE PARCELS.
I THINK THE INTENT AND THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT IS TO LOOK AT IT AS A, AS A WHOLE.
AND SO THIS IS WITHIN THAT EAST SUBAREA IF YOU WILL.
AND SO I BELIEVE THE INTENT THERE WAS TO TRY TO INTRODUCE USES THAT WILL HELP DENSIFY THE, THE AREA THAT DO NOT EXIST RIGHT NOW. AND SO THE THERE'S EXCUSE ME, THERE'S NO SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT THAT IT HAS TO BE A VERTICAL MIX OF USES. AND WE DO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS INTRODUCING ONE OF THOSE USES THAT ARE LISTED AS A PRINCIPAL USE IN AN AREA THAT THIS USE DOES NOT EXIST NOW. AGAIN, THIS IS THE FIRST ONE.
[01:05:05]
WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE. THAT'S A DISCUSSION WE MAY NEED TO HAVE.BUT AT THIS POINT WE FEEL COMFORTABLE THAT THIS IS MEETING THE SPIRIT.
THANK YOU. AND THEN ONE OTHER QUESTION ON THIS SAME ITEM, WE TALK ABOUT MID-RISE BUILDINGS LOCATED ALONG PUBLIC STREETSCAPES WITH GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATION. CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT WE MEAN BY GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATION? AND IF THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, INCLUDING AND EXCLUDING THAT CENTER PLAZA, QUALIFIES FOR WHAT THE CITY WOULD SAY IS GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATION? YEAH. I THINK PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS WITH THAT TERMINOLOGY BEING USED HAVE BEEN TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT INTERACTS WITH THE STREETS. SO WE DO FEEL THAT THE WAY THEY'VE DESIGNED THAT CORNER NOT JUST THE PLAZA, BUT THE STOREFRONT TREATMENT OF THAT COMMON OPEN SPACE ON THE INTERIOR THAT SHOWS ACTIVITY AS YOU'RE GOING BY THAT THAT IS A COMPONENT OF THAT ACTIVATION FOR AN OTHERWISE SINGLE USE BUILDING LIKE THIS.
OKAY. THANK YOU. LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION, ARE THERE ANY FINAL QUESTIONS FOR EITHER STAFF OR THE APPLICANT? MR. DESHLER? I HAVE ONE MORE FOR STAFF. SOMETHING THAT REBECCA SAID SPARKED A QUESTION.
DO WE HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE IN DUBLIN? A BUILDING WITH THIS TYPE OF DENSITY ON THIS TYPE OF LOT? IF YOU'RE AWARE. THE I THINK THERE AGAIN WITHIN THE RICH PARK, LET'S USE BIRCH PARK AS AN EXAMPLE.
THERE'S A LOT OF BUILDINGS OF THAT NATURE. AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOUR QUESTION IS IN GENERAL OR SPECIFIC TO, I'M TALKING JUST IN GENERAL OF OF THE CITY'S LIMITS, NOT NECESSARILY BRIDGE PARK DISTRICT.
SO I'M NOT SURE THAT WE NECESSARILY HAVE THAT IN THAT SPECIFIC AREA, BUT THE INTENT OF THE PLAN IS TO TRY TO DENSIFY IT AND CREATE MORE VOLUME AND MORE DENSITY. SO AND AS A AS A REFERENCE, THERE WAS A PREVIOUS PROPOSAL FOR THIS SITE A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO FOR A HOSPITAL USE THAT WAS GOING TO BE A TWO STORY BUILDING, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF COMMENTARY FROM THE COMMISSION AT THE TIME THAT IT NEEDED TO BE MORE SUBSTANTIAL AT THAT CORNER TO ADDRESS THE CORNER. AND SO WE BELIEVE WITH THE INTENT TO CREATE A GATEWAY THERE WITH THE INTENT OF HELPING DENSIFY WITH THE INTENT OF SUPPORTING SOME OF THE OTHER USES WITHIN THE AREA, INCLUDING THE TRANSIT THAT THE SCALE IS APPROPRIATE AND IT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT TO MEETS THE FRONTAGE REQUIREMENTS ALONG THE FRONTAGES. OKAY. THANKS. ANY FINAL QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? THANK YOU. WE WOULD INVITE YOU TO TAKE YOUR SEATS AT THIS TIME.
WE WILL OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. ANYONE WHO WISHES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, WE WOULD INVITE YOU TO COME FORWARD. MISS ROUSH, HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE COURSE OF THE MEETING? WE DID RECEIVE ONE, WHICH I FORWARDED TO ALL OF YOU.
SO THANK YOU. I WILL GIVE A MOMENT TO THE COMMISSION TO REVIEW THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT.
IT IS QUITE SHORT. MR. ALEXANDER.
WERE YOU ABLE TO REVIEW THE PUBLIC COMMENT? SORRY, I DON'T SEE YOUR.
MR. CHINNOCK. WERE YOU ABLE TO REVIEW IT? I DON'T SEE YOUR IPAD OUT, SO.
ALL RIGHT. ANYONE ELSE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH, WISH TO MAKE COMMENT ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE? OKAY. WITH THAT, I WILL CLOSE CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND WE WILL MOVE ON INTO DELIBERATION.
THIS IS A CONCEPT PLAN. SO THE COMMISSION KNOWS THIS.
BUT FOR THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE, THIS IS WHAT I LIKE TO CALL THE CRAYON STAGE.
OF COURSE, ONE IS VERY RELATED TO THE OTHER, HENCE THE QUESTIONS YOU HEARD FROM THE COMMISSION ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND PARKING AND THAT SORT OF THING. AND THEN FINALLY WE GET TO THE LEGO BLOCKS, THE DETAIL ORIENTED.
SO, MR. CHINNOCK, WE'LL START WITH YOU THIS EVENING.
YES. SO JUST SOME GENERAL COMMENTS. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. AND I WANT TO SEPARATE THE.
OBVIOUSLY YOUR MISSION IS VERY IMPORTANT WHAT YOU ALL ARE DOING. BUT FROM A PLANT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE. SO MY COMMENTS ARE IN JEST OF JUST FOCUSED ON ON THAT.
[01:10:05]
NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU KNOW OBVIOUSLY WHAT YOU WHAT YOU ALL ARE DOING THE, THE THE CONCERN I HAVE AND I THINK IT'S KIND OF BROUGHT UP IN THE GENERAL COMMENTARY WAS BEING ON DUBLIN-GRANVILLE ROAD. THIS THIS SITE HAS SOME IMPORTANCE.IT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT ARTERY TO THE, TO THE CITY.
SO I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES HERE.
AS WE LOOK AT WHAT ONE 60 ONE FUTURE IS GOING TO BECOME, IT'S GOING TO BECOME JUST A VERY, VERY UNIQUE, WELL, WELL THOUGHT OUT CORRIDOR FOR US.
I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT YOU KNOW, KIND OF GOING IN THAT DIRECTION TOO.
BUT I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP, IS HOW THAT HAVING THAT RESIDENTIAL THAT CLOSE TO TO THAT, THAT CORRIDOR, I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER OTHER OPTIONS.
I'D BE FINE IF THE BUILDING WAS TALLER, TO BE HONEST.
I THINK THERE'S LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES THERE. SO GENERALLY, I THINK IT'S OKAY, BUT I FEEL THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR IMPROVEMENT, A LOT OF A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER.
AS WE LOOK AT THE OVERALL HOW THIS FITS IN THE OVERALL LONG TERM PLANNED PERSPECTIVE.
WE WANT TO CREATE A REALLY NICE FACILITY DIFFERENT AMENITIES THINGS THAT WE CAN WE CAN BE PROUD OF.
I DO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH A LOT OF SURFACE PARKING.
SO I THINK IF WE CAN ADDRESS THAT, WE CAN ADD SOME MORE LANDSCAPING, SOME SOME MORE GREEN SPACE, EVERYTHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, BROUGHT UP HERE, HERE, HERE TONIGHT. AND I CAN'T EMPHASIZE THE WE HEAR A LOT FROM THIS GROUP IS STREETSCAPE AND ACTIVATION OF STREETSCAPE AND CREATING A VIBRANT STREETSCAPE IS, IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO THIS AREA SPECIFICALLY.
AGAIN, BUILDING HEIGHT INCREASE, BUILDING HEIGHT, MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE SIGNIFICANT.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THERE'S AGAIN, A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES HERE, BUT THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, MR. CHINNOCK. MISS CARTER. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
I THINK THE PURPOSE USE. I THINK THAT'S GOOD.
THE THING IS, IS THAT WE'VE GOT TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THE WALKABILITY.
THE AREA THAT YOU'RE IN. BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS SUCH A SUCH AN IMPORTANT AREA.
AND HOW YOU CAN GET TO BRIDGE PARK AND, AND, AND PARTICIPATE IN THOSE AMENITIES.
BUT IT'S GOT TO BE SAFE AND LIGHTING. THAT SHOULD BE A CONVERSATION WITHIN NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND YOU SHOULD BE PART OF THAT. IT SHOULD BE SUSTAINABLE ALSO AS WELL TOO.
IT'S IN THE HOUSING PURPOSE AND SO FORTH. THIS IS FINE.
BUT IT'S GOT TO BE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY. AND LIKE WE SAID THIS IS A BUSY, BUSY CORNER.
AND HOW CAN YOU LOWER IT DOWN SO THAT IT HAS THAT FEEL OF THAT AS WELL, TOO? THE LAYOUT I DO SEE IT AS A SEA OF PARK PARKING LOT AND SO FORTH, BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE BANK ON ONE SIDE AND THEN YOU'RE FLOWING RIGHT INTO THAT.
SO LANDSCAPING IS GOING TO BE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
AND MOUNDING AND SO FORTH. JUST SO LIKE YOU BROUGHT IT ALL TOGETHER, IT'S NOT ONE.
AND THAT MAY BE THE ENTRANCE TO AS TO WHICH ONE YOU PICK OUT.
SO LIKE RIGHT NOW IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S ANY PARTICULAR LIKE LANDSCAPING IN FRONT OF IT NOW, BUT YOU MIGHT WANT TO WORK TOGETHER AND THEN MAYBE USE, USE THAT LAND AS AROUND THAT AREA AS WELL TOO.
TOGETHER IF THAT. OTHERWISE I AM FINE WITH THE WHITE PART THAT'S BEEN MENTIONED AS WELL TOO.
I GUESS WITH NUMBER THREE, YOU KNOW, THE ACCESS I JUST TALKED ABOUT AND SO FORTH, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S IT I GUESS I'M MORE IN FAVOR OF THE OF THE ARROW WITH IT, WITH THE WHITE.
I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE OPEN SPACE AND HOW FAST THAT TRAFFIC IS.
IF YOU HAVE YOU KNOW, LIVING SPACES DOWN ON THE GROUND I STILL THINK YOU'RE MISSING THE BOAT BY NOT HAVING SOMETHING THAT IS EITHER SOME TYPE OF BUSINESS. WE'VE TALKED ON SEVERAL DIFFERENT OCCASIONS HERE.
[01:15:02]
IT MAY BE A POP UP IF YOU GO INTO SOME CITIES.THEY JUST HAVE A LITTLE SPACE FOR INTERESTING POP UPS OF BUSINESSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT BRING PEOPLE SLOW DOWN THE, THE TRAFFIC AND SO FORTH. SO AND I GUESS THAT'S, YOU KNOW, NEXT TIME I'D LIKE TO SEE WITH THE, WITH THE LANDSCAPING AND SO FORTH. SO LET'S SEE AND I'M, I LIKE ALL THE WINDOWS GOING THE ONE DIRECTION.
AND I DO THINK THAT LIGHTING IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO MEANING WITH TRAFFIC GOING BY.
AND IF PEOPLE ARE, ARE THEY'RE, THEY'RE THEY'RE LIVING LOWER AND SO FORTH.
SO ALL THAT THAT MATTERS AS WELL TOO I THINK THAT'S IT.
THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, MR. CARTER.
MR. WADE, THANK YOU. THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING CASE FOR ME.
YOU KNOW, THE CITY HAS LOTS OF PLANS AND CODES AND GUIDELINES THAT GUIDE DEVELOPMENT IN THIS AREA.
BUT HERE WE HAVE THE 161 CORRIDOR WHERE NONE OF THAT'S HAPPENED YET.
SO YOU ARE THE PIONEERS, AND I THINK YOU'RE STARTING TO HEAR THE COMMISSION IS A LITTLE BIT UNEASY, BECAUSE THERE'S NO CONTEXT FOR THIS BUILDING YET TO REALLY LATCH ON TO.
SO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIT OF A JOURNEY FOR ALL OF US.
I, I REALLY AT THIS POINT AM AGAIN, WITH THIS TERM OF WALKABILITY AND STREET LEVEL CONNECTIVITY.
I'M STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT WITH RESIDENTIAL AT GRADE.
AND AND I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT THAT. I DROVE THROUGH BRIDGE PARK THIS MORNING AND THERE'S A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL AT GRADE, BUT IT'S ALL IN THE SIDE STREETS. IT'S ALL IN THE BACK STREETS.
IT'S ALL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS. THE MAJOR THOROUGHFARES AREN'T THAT.
AND I THINK AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH BECAUSE ONE 60 ONE IS A BUSY CORRIDOR.
FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT. THE SPEED MAY GO DOWN OKAY, BUT IT'S THAT'S GOING TO SET A WHOLE NEW KIND OF URBAN CONTEXT FOR DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE STREET. WE HAVE ALREADY REVIEWED SOME CASES, BUT IT WAS LOW DENSITY COMMERCIAL AND AND DRIVEN BY OTHER FACTORS THAT WE WERE OUT OF OUR CONTROL. SO THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST PROJECT WHERE WE REALLY GET TO TEST ALL THE CODES AND GUIDES, GUIDELINES AND PLANS. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT AGAIN.
SO IN TERMS OF THE PROPOSED USE, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE PROPOSED USE.
I JUST HAVE THE GROUND LEVEL USES WHERE I'M STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW.
THE SITE LAYOUT, I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS.
AND YOU, YOU KNOW, AN L-SHAPED BUILDING CAPTURING THE CORNER OF THE GATEWAY CORNER.
I THINK YOU'VE DONE AS BEST YOU CAN WITH KIND OF THE CONFIGURATION OF THE BUILDING SITE ACCESS.
IT'S GOING TO BE WHAT IT IS. THAT'S GOING TO BE DRIVEN BY TRANSPORTATION.
THE OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK. AGAIN, I'M BACK TO THE CODES AND GUIDELINES.
I THINK YOU'RE THROWING A LOT OF NAMES OUT THERE OF THINGS THAT IT COULD BE FOR OPEN SPACE, YOU KNOW, THE POCKET PARK, POCKET PLAZA, THE GREENWAY.
SO AGAIN, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING HOW THAT GETS EVOLVED.
THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S I THINK IT'S WAY TOO EARLY TO REALLY COMMENT ON THAT.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE TOO REGULAR PLAIN KIND OF.
I THINK THERE COULD BE A AGAIN, THIS IS A GATEWAY CORNER.
AND THEN I THINK MR. ALEXANDER TALKED ABOUT. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ONE 60 ONE EDGE AND THE OTHER EDGE? AND I THINK, YES, THERE'S SOMETHING IN THAT THAT WHY CAN'T WE MAKE THESE TWO EDGES LOOK DIFFERENT? MAYBE THEY'RE DIFFERENT HEIGHTS, MAYBE THEY'RE WHATEVER. BUT I THINK THAT'S GOING TO DRIVE THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN. SO AGAIN THANKS FOR COMING IN.
TOTALLY SUPPORTIVE OF OF THE PROJECT. I THINK THERE'S SOME THINGS WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH, AND I THINK WE CAN GET THERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. MR. ALEXANDER. THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF GOOD COMMENTS BY FELLOW MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, AND I'M NOT GOING TO RESTATE THOSE, BUT I GENERALLY AGREE WITH MOST OF THEM.
[01:20:07]
WHICH IS WHAT ALL OF OUR GUIDELINES ARE RECOMMENDING.SO IN TERMS OF BEING IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR ZONING AND PLANNING, THE PROJECT MEETS THAT VERY, VERY WELL. AND I THINK IT'S CLOSE TO BEING ABLE TO TO CONFORM TO OUR CURRENT ZONING CODES.
CLOSE, BUT I THINK SOME ADJUSTMENTS ARE GOING GOING TO NEED TO BE MADE.
SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE PROJECT.
I DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH KIM, THE SITE LAYOUT, YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY OPTIONS.
YOU'VE GOT TO PUT THE PARKING IN THE BACK NOW HOW YOU TREAT THAT PARKING, I THINK.
OTHER COMMISSIONERS COMMENTS I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
YOU KNOW, A LOT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON HOW THAT LARGE SEA OF PARKING IS MINIMIZED.
I THINK STAFF'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE SITE ACCESS.
I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS THE STAFF MADE AND THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS.
THIS DOESN'T QUITE MEET THAT STANDARD, BUT I LIKE WHERE YOU'RE MAKING THE SPACES.
HOWEVER, THE ONE THING I REALLY THINK IS LACKING IN WHILE.
GRANTED, IT MAY BE A LITTLE EARLY TO TALK ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURE, BUT IT IS ON THE LIST HERE.
THE ARCHITECTURE REALLY DOESN'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CORNER AND THAT THAT CORNER, IT JUST WRAPS AROUND.
AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE MAY COME FROM THE BACK, LIKE I LOOK AT THE WARREN BUILDING AND THE WARREN BUILDING IN BRIDGE PARK, WHAT'S REALLY SMART ABOUT THAT IS EVEN THOUGH MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY PARK IN THE BACK, ENTER FROM THE BACK, THERE'S AN ENTRY FEATURE THERE THAT ACKNOWLEDGES THE LOCATION ON THE PARK AND THE OFFICE BUILDING THAT'S ADJACENT TO THAT.
AND I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR DOING THAT. SO THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS.
THANK YOU, MR. ALEXANDER. MR. DESHLER. THANKS FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AND I'LL TRY TO RUN THROUGH THESE, BUT I DO SHARE A LOT OF THE SAME COMMENTS IN MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HERE.
I THINK THERE'S WHILE I'M GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE USE, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SIGNIFICANT WORK DONE RELATIVE TO THE PARKING, THE THE THE OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK. AGAIN, I'M IN FAVOR OF TRYING TO REMOVE SOME OF THAT PARKING AND DOING SOME KIND OF UNDERGROUND PIECE.
I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF MAYBE RAISING THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING, POTENTIALLY WITH A.
LIKE WAS DISCUSSED A MORE ENTRANCE INTO THE THAT AREA.
SO NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST ANYTHING ON THAT. THE, THE PIECE RELATIVE TO THE THAT OPEN SPACE.
THERE'S REALLY NOT AN AREA FOR KIDS TO GO OUTSIDE.
I THINK GARY BROUGHT UP A GREAT POINT ON THAT.
SO THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMETHING CONSIDERED AS WELL.
I ALSO SHARE KIM'S POINT. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO.
I KNOW THAT FROM A MIXED USE STANDPOINT, COULD THERE BE SOMETHING ADDITIONAL ON THAT BASE FLOOR? I'M IN AGREEMENT. I DON'T THINK IT MAKES SENSE. ON THE FRONTAGE ON 161 AND DUBLIN VILLAGE TO HAVE RESIDENTIAL UNITS.
I THINK THERE COULD BE SOMETHING ELSE DONE IN THAT AREA.
SO BEYOND THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. TESZLER.
MR. GARVIN. THANK YOU. YEAH. AT THIS POINT, A LOT OF MY COMMENTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ECHOED, SO I'LL RUN THROUGH THE QUESTIONS IN ORDER HERE.
SUPPORTIVE OF THE PROPOSED USE? I WOULD SAY PARTIALLY.
SAME COMMENT YOU'VE HEARD. I THINK THE GOAL OF THE BSD HERE WAS TO PROMOTE WALKABILITY.
I THINK THAT HAVING MORE GROUND FLOOR MIX OF USES DOES THAT BETTER? THE SITE LAYOUT. YEAH. I SUPPORT KEEPING THE PARKING OFF OF DUBLIN CENTER ROAD.
I THINK YOU'VE DONE THE BEST POSSIBLE LOCATION FOR PARKING THERE.
I WOULD ECHO MR. DESHLER'S COMMENTS ABOUT MAYBE FINDING A WAY TO VARY THAT PARKING MAKE IT MORE VISUALLY APPEALING FROM THE STREET, AS THIS IS INTENDED TO BE A WALKABLE AREA. I THINK RIGHT NOW WE TALK ABOUT IT BEING THE FIRST BUILDING OF ITS TYPE IN THIS AREA.
SO YOU DO SEE THE BIG PARKING LOTS NEXT TO IT, AND IT KIND OF FITS IN THAT SENSE.
BUT IF IT'S GOING TO BE STREET LEVEL WALKING OR AKIN TO BRIDGE PARK, AS BASSIM MENTIONED, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE IT APPEALING FROM AS MANY ANGLES AS POSSIBLE AND USE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS THAT MAYBE WERE USED IN BRIDGE PARK TO TO SHIELD
[01:25:07]
OR MINIMIZE THE EFFECT OF THOSE PARKING SPOTS.SUPPORTIVE OF THE SITE ACCESS? I WOULD SAY YES.
PARTICULARLY OF THE I GUESS THIRD OPTION, THE WHITE ARROW.
AS WE LOOKED AT I'M A LITTLE BIT SKEPTICAL OF THE IDEA OF SHARING AN ACCESS POINT THROUGH THE OTHER PARKING LOT. IT JUST SEEMS CLUNKY AS PEOPLE COME IN AND OUT OF THEIR WORKPLACE THERE.
BUT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAYBE MOVE THAT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER FROM THAT INTERSECTION TO GIVE A LITTLE RELIEF TO THE TRAFFIC. THE OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK IS PROBABLY THE THING I'M LEAST SUPPORTIVE OF. I DON'T THINK IN ITS CURRENT ITERATION THAT IT PROVIDES MUCH USEFUL OPEN SPACE.
I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO FIND A WAY TO MASK SOME OF THAT SO THAT IT CAN TRULY BE A FEATURE.
AND THAT, IN MY MIND, IS A WAY THAT YOU CAN HIT THE KIND OF GATEWAY GOAL THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED WHERE YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT ENTRANCE TO PROBABLY THE DENSEST PART OF THE CITY AS WE MOVE ALONG.
AND SO I THINK YOU REALLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE AN AMENITY THAT IS VISUALLY APPEALING AND ACTUALLY USEFUL TO THE COMMUNITY OR EVENTUAL COMMUNITY THERE. AND I THINK THAT ADDRESSES EVERYTHING I'VE GOT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. GARVIN. SO I'LL WRAP US UP, AND I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF.
I ECHO WHAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID ABOUT THE THE PROPOSED USE.
IT'S IT'S A GOOD USE. IT'S SUPPORTED IN IN THE DOCUMENTATION IN THE CODE THAT WE GO BY.
HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME CONFLICTING ITEMS. AND MR. WEI TOUCHED ON THIS. YOU'RE THE FIRST OF THE NEW AND NOT THE LAST OF THE OLD.
SO WE PAST ENVISION DUBLIN BACK IN WENT INTO EFFECT MAYBE AUGUST OF LAST YEAR.
SO WE'RE A YEAR INTO THE APPROXIMATELY DECADE.
YOU KNOW, WE EVERY DECADE WE LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY PLAN AGAIN.
AND SO IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT YOU'RE SOMEWHAT THE GUINEA PIG IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
I SUPPORT THE RESIDENTIAL USE. HOWEVER, WE HAVE TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THE ADJACENCY TO A HIGHER SPEED, HIGHER TRAFFIC CORRIDORS. AND SO WITH THAT, WE NEED TO BALANCE SOMETHING.
AND SO SAFETY HAS TO BE PARAMOUNT. AND THE CODE REQUIRES GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATION.
EITHER ONE OF THOSE IS NOT CURRENTLY, TO MY SATISFACTION, MET IN THE PROPOSAL.
YOU DID A MARVELOUS JOB AT THE CORNER. BUT THE LEGS OF THE PROPOSAL ARE RESIDENTIAL USE, ESSENTIALLY ADJACENT TO SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT STREET CORRIDORS. SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE SOME WORK WORK TO DO THERE ON THE LAYOUT.
SO THE SUM OF THE PARTS IS NOT EQUAL TO THE WHOLE.
IF WE LOOK AT WHY WE DO OPEN SPACE, WE DO OPEN SPACE FOR USE OF THE COMMUNITY AND A GREENWAY THAT'S ADJACENT TO A PARKING LOT OR A SIDEWALK. TIMES THREE IS NOT EQUAL TO A POCKET PARK.
AND SO I WOULD I WOULD ASK YOU TO LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES AS YOU COME BACK WITH THIS PROPOSAL.
PARKING IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST THING THAT I STRUGGLE WITH.
STRUCTURED PARKING ON STREET PARKING GARAGES SCREENED FROM MAJOR CORRIDORS WITH LINER BUILDINGS.
THINGS, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMAS IN OUR CODE.
AND SOMETIMES I CAN PICK AND CHOOSE ONE OF THE CLAUSES, AND I CAN'T GET YOURS TO MATCH ANY OF THE CLAUSES ON THE PARKING IN THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES THERE, WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING LIKE MISS HARTER TALKED ABOUT WITH SCREENING OR MORE MR. DESHLER TALKING ABOUT UNDERGROUND PARKING OR SOMETHING CREATIVE IN BETWEEN, BUT I THINK WE'RE NOT THERE YET ON THE PARKING SIDE ACCESS. I ALSO AGREE THAT THE EASTERN ACCESS, AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF IS IS MY MY PREFERENCE, THE OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK. I'VE ALREADY TOUCHED ON THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN.
I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S A LOVELY DESIGN. I THINK THE BUILDING IS NICE.
WE'RE NOT YET AT LEGOS AND SO WE'RE NOT AT FIT FINISH DIFFERENT TYPES OF MATERIALS.
[01:30:02]
AND SO I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THAT AGAIN. AND THEN THE PROBABLY THE FINAL ONE FOR ME IS THE SIDEWALK. WE SAY HIGHLY WALKABLE AND WE FORGOT ABOUT A SIDE.AND SO WHERE WE HAVE THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE PARKING LOT, THE ACCESS, ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE FIFTH THIRD BUILDING ON THAT EASTERN SIDE, WE DON'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION FOR THAT OTHER TYPE OF MOBILITY, MEANING YOUR PEDESTRIANS.
AND SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER THAT IN THE FUTURE ITERATIONS.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S THAT'S A LEGO BLOCK, RIGHT? THAT'S SMALL. WE DON'T NEED TO CARVE OUT BUILDING OR ANYTHING ELSE TO GET THERE.
I THINK YOU'LL HEAR FROM THE COMMISSION THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DETAILS.
WE'RE GOING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT MEETING THE CODE.
WE MOST OF THE TIME IT'S OUR NEIGHBORS WHO ARE COMING TO SEE US.
AND OF COURSE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE BEING PLEASING TO THE COMMUNITY.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HOW WE DO THAT IS WE MAKE SURE THAT WE TREAT ALL THINGS EQUAL.
SO WE CERTAINLY LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU, TO CONTINUING TO WORK WITH YOU, TO ITERATE ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT AND TO BUILD SOMETHING ELSE IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN THAT WE CAN ALL BE PROUD OF AND LOOK FORWARD TO LIVING NEXT TO FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO ASK. THERE'S NO ACTION TAKEN BY THE COMMISSION TONIGHT, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THE COMMISSION WAS WAS PRETTY CLEAR ON WHAT THEY WHAT THEIR PERSPECTIVES ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO FUTURE. ARE THERE ANY AMBIGUITIES OR ANY CLARIFICATION THAT YOU WOULD LIKE FROM THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING? WE APPRECIATE THE INPUT AND WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUED CONVERSATION.
OKAY. THANK YOU. FOR OUR RECORDER PURPOSES, WE HEARD A NO FROM THE APPLICANT.
WITH APPRECIATION EXPRESSED TO THE COMMISSION AND FUTURE OPPORTUNITY.
SO WITH WITH THAT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US THIS EVENING.
WE CERTAINLY LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU BACK NEXT TIME. AND THE SOUND FOR THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO ARE EXITING THE SOUND. WONDERFUL ACOUSTICS IN THE BUILDING. HOWEVER, SOUND CARRIES VERY, VERY WELL THROUGH THOSE DOORS.
SO IF WHEN YOU EXIT, IF YOU NEED TO HAVE ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION, WHICH I IMAGINE YOU PROBABLY WOULD IF YOU COULD EXIT PAST THE KITCHEN, YOU CAN. THERE ARE SOME SEATING AREAS THERE AT THE VERY END OF THE HALLWAY.
ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON TO OUR DISCUSSION FOR THIS EVENING.
WE DO HAVE OUR BUILDING MATERIALS ON THE DOCKET.
SO, MR. FORD. I'LL DO A QUICK INTRODUCTION. THEN MR. FORD HAS A PRESENTATION FOR SOME OF THIS DISCUSSION ITEMS. AND THEN WE HAVE SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT YOU SUGGESTED WE LOOK AT AT LAST WEEK'S MEETING THAT WILL TOUCH ON ALSO AFTER MR. FORD'S PRESENTATION IS COMPLETED. SO WE'LL BE TAG TEAMING, I'LL LET HIM GET STARTED WITH THE OVERALL PRESENTATION AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK AND TOUCH ON AGAIN SOME OF THE SPECIFIC ITEMS. THANK YOU, MR. GUITAR. YOU'RE ON. YOU'RE UP. WELCOME, WELCOME.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME BACK.
WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH BASIM AND HIS TEAM ON DISCUSSIONS ON MULTIPLE PROJECTS OVER THE PAST SIX MONTHS WHERE HE HAS PRESENTED. OR HIS TEAM HAS PRESENTED DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND ASKED SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT PRODUCTS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED FOR THOSE BUILDINGS. AND I WANTED TO TRY TO AT LEAST EXPLAIN WHAT MY PROCESS HAS BEEN IN LOOKING AT THOSE AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS OR OR EVALUATIONS OF THOSE OF THOSE PRODUCTS. AND ONE OF THE, YOU KNOW, I MADE SOME NOTES.
I'M REALLY NOT GOOD AT READING FROM NOTES, BUT I'M GOING TO TRY TONIGHT TO TRY TO KEEP ON TOPIC.
I REALLY LOOK AT THIS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WE EVALUATE WHAT IS GOOD DESIGN.
AND I THINK THE TWO THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT IS THE SELECTIONS OF MATERIALS.
[01:35:09]
AND I'VE A FEW EXAMPLES OF THAT. THE OTHER NIGHT I WAS ACTUALLY IN DOWNTOWN DUBLIN, AND I PARKED AT THE PARKING GARAGE BY THE LIBRARY, AND I WAS WALKING ACROSS THE STREET OR GOING TO GO WALK ACROSS THE STREET.BEAUTIFUL PLAZA, BRICK PAVERS AND ABOUT FELL ON MY REAR END BECAUSE IT WAS RAINING.
AND THOSE BRICK PAVERS BECAME VERY SLICK, BEAUTIFUL MATERIAL, GREAT QUALITY MATERIAL.
PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT APPLICATION OF THE MATERIAL.
I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS IS WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF WHAT IS THE KEY ELEMENTS OF GOOD DESIGN? AND, YOU KNOW, GARY AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR A LONG TIME.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, ARE THE MATERIALS REALLY BEING USED APPROPRIATELY? ARE THEY BEING DETAILED APPROPRIATELY AND ARE THEY BEING INSTALLED INAPPROPRIATELY.
SO I THINK YOU HAVE TO KIND OF CHECK ALL THOSE BOXES.
AND SO WHEN I'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT MATERIALS, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I'VE DONE IS, YOU KNOW, TRY TO GIVE IT AN OBJECTIVE. THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE.
DO I LIKE THIS? WHY DO WE PICK CERTAIN THINGS? YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN PREFERENCES. I PERSONALLY LIKE BRICK.
OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT LIKE STONE. I LIKE CERTAIN COLORS OF BRICK.
OTHER PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE WITH MY SELECTIONS OF BRICK.
BUT I THINK IN SO YOU HAVE THIS OBJECTIVE, THE SUBJECTIVE AND NOW THE OBJECTIVE.
AND THERE'S ALWAYS THERE'S A COST TO EVERY DECISION.
AND SO YOU LOOK AT THE COST OF THE MATERIALS.
AND IT'S NOT ONLY IN THE PRODUCTION OF MATERIALS AND HOW IT AFFECTS THE OVERALL COST OF THE PROJECT, BUT THERE'S COST OF PRODUCTION, COST OF TRANSPORTATION.
AND ALL THOSE THINGS ALSO PLAY INTO THE IDEA OF SUSTAINABILITY AND INNOVATION.
I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF REGARDING SOME OF THE NEWER PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SYNTHETIC MATERIALS AND THEY'RE MUCH LIGHTER TO INSTALL.
THEY IMPACT THE STRUCTURAL REQUIREMENTS FOR A BUILDING.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE ALL THE STEEL TO SUPPORT IT.
AND IT ALL COMES BACK TO AGAIN THE APPLICATION OF THOSE MATERIALS.
YOU MAY HAVE SOMETHING NEW TO LOOK AT. I REMEMBER BACK IN THE 80S WHEN I WORKED FOR ANOTHER FIRM, AND WE USED TO DO A LOT OF MULTIFAMILY, AND ONE OF THE BIG CONVERSATIONS, THE VINYL SIDING, WHICH WAS OUT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE HOT BIG THING, NEW VINYL SIDING.
AND WHAT'S THE GAUGE OF IT? IS IT AN OLD OIL CAN? AND, YOU KNOW, THEY GO BACK AND LOOK AT THOSE CONVERSATIONS OR RETRACE THOSE CONVERSATIONS IS YOU KNOW.
YEAH. YES. YOU ARE SAVING MONEY. YOU'RE LOWERING MAINTENANCE COSTS.
BUT WAS IT REALLY THE RIGHT PRODUCT TO USE ON THIS SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS? I THINK YOU KNOW, A LOT OF, A LOT OF PROJECTS PROBABLY USE LESSER QUALITY MATERIALS TO MEET THAT FINANCIAL GOAL AND HAVE CREATED LONG TERM MAINTENANCE ISSUES BECAUSE OF IT.
SO I LOOK AT THE COST. IS IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE INNOVATION? I KNOW INNOVATION IS A FOCUS OF OF OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN.
IS IT SUSTAINABLE? IT'S RIGHT THERE ON YOUR LOGO ABOUT BEING SUSTAINABLE AS WELL.
AND THEN I ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THE MATERIAL ITSELF.
AND SO WHAT I TRY TO DO IS I, I REACH, I REACH INTO THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF DIFFERENT TESTING STANDARDS FOR DIFFERENT MATERIALS, WHAT THE MANUFACTURER PRODUCT LITERATURE PROVIDES.
AND ONE OF THE WAYS OF DOING THAT IS TO TRY TO FIND A PROJECT IN WHICH THE PRODUCT'S BEEN USED AND, YOU KNOW, GO AND KICK THE TIRES, SO TO SPEAK.
AND I'VE HAD SOME SUCCESS WITH THAT. SOME OF THESE NEWER PRODUCTS, I REACH OUT TO THE REGIONAL SALES REPS OR THE MANUFACTURERS THEMSELVES AND SAY, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU GIVE ME A PROJECT IN CENTRAL OHIO THAT THIS HAS BEEN USED?
[01:40:02]
I KNOW THAT SYNTHETIC BRICK THAT I LOOKED AT A MONTH OR SO AGO.I ALSO REACH OUT TO MANUFACTURERS AND ASK THEM IF THEY'LL SEND ME SAMPLES OF THE PRODUCT.
SO I'VE BEEN COLLECTING THOSE AS WELL. AND SO I CAN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AGAIN, KICK THE TIRES AND SEE, SEE HOW THESE, THESE MATERIALS REALLY LOOK AND WHAT'S THE SHEEN ON THEM.
WE HAD A SYNTHETIC PLASTIC ROOF THAT WAS SUBMITTED ON ONE OF THE PROJECTS.
AND YOU KNOW, JUST HOW PLASTICKY DOES THIS LOOK IN REALITY.
AND AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE MANUFACTURER'S LITERATURE FOR IMPACT RESISTANCE, YOU KNOW, WHERE IS THIS MATERIAL GOING TO BE LOCATED? IS IT GOING TO BE IN AN AREA THAT IS IN POTENTIAL IN HARM'S WAY BECAUSE OF HUMAN CONTACT, TRAFFIC CONTACT, THAT KIND OF THING? I MENTIONED SUSTAINABILITY, BUT ALSO LOOKING AT WHEN HOW THE PRODUCTS ARE MANUFACTURED, WHAT CONTENT IS RECYCLED MATERIALS AND WHAT ARE THOSE RECYCLED MATERIALS.
SO TRYING TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN, ALMOST LIKE A SCORECARD OF THESE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS, MANUFACTURERS LITERATURE, AS I MENTIONED, IS CAN BE SELF-SERVING, BUT THERE'S THE TESTING DATA, THE DATA THAT THEY PROVIDE, THE WARRANTY, OFTEN THE WARRANTIES ARE LIMITED.
YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THAT? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? EXAMPLE I'VE USED I THINK WITH THIS BOARD I KNOW WITH STAFF IS YEARS AGO I WAS WORKING ON DOUBLE VILLAGE CENTER AND THERE WAS THIS WONDERFUL NEW PRODUCT CALLED IT A TURN IT.
WHAT A WONDERFUL NAME, A TURN IT. IT'S GOING TO LAST FOREVER.
AND IT HAD A 50 YEAR LIMITED GUARANTEE. SO IT WAS USED ON WELLA CENTER.
WE ALSO USED IT ON THE KROGER CENTER ON WHICH IS NOW AVERY MERRIFIELD DRIVE AND ALSO USED ON A PROJECT OVER IN GAHANNA, ALL WITHIN A PERIOD OF ABOUT FIVE YEARS. WELL, THE PROJECT IN GAHANNA, THEY'VE HAD TO REROOF BECAUSE IT FAILED.
I'M, I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING THIS FOR 50 YEARS, SO I KNOW IT DIDN'T MEET THE 50 YEARS LIMIT.
BUT AGAIN, THE, YOU KNOW, THE COMPANY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS AND OF COURSE, THERE'S NO RECOURSE, RIGHT. EXCEPT FOR THE REROOF. SO THERE'S THAT THAT INFORMATION I ALWAYS TAKE WITH SOMEWHAT SKEPTICISM.
I LOOK AT THEIR, THEIR PUBLISHED INSTALLATION DETAILS.
HOW IS THE PRODUCT ACTUALLY INSTALLED? EXPOSED FASTENERS.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN SEEING A LOT OF THE SCREEN WALL MATERIALS.
THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, LAMINATED, VERY THIN, LIGHTWEIGHT MATERIALS.
AND HOW ARE THEY ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING? WHAT ARE THEIR INSTALLATION DETAILS? ARE THEY EXPOSED FASTENERS? MOST OF THEM ARE.
NO I MY RECOMMENDATION IS NOT TO USE IT OR NOT TO USE THAT INSTALLATION METHOD.
AND THEN THE LAST THING I NOTED IS I ALWAYS TRY TO FIND OUT WHO IS A CERTIFIED INSTALLER REQUIRED TO GET THE WARRANTY. AND I GET REALLY VAGUE ANSWERS ON THAT SOMETIMES.
OH, YEAH. WE TRAIN THE GUYS. WELL, WHAT DOES YOUR TRAINING INVOLVE? IS THAT AN AFTERNOON WITH, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE PIZZAS OR IS THIS, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY TECHNICAL TRAINING. SO I DO PROBE AND TRY TO, YOU KNOW, EVALUATE IT AND IN IN THE TIME FRAME THAT WE HAVE AND PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION TESTING DATA, YOU KNOW, AND THOSE OF YOU THAT DEAL IN THIS INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ASTM STANDARDS, WHICH ARE STANDARDIZED TESTS FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING UNDER THE SUN IN TERMS OF ITS WATER ABSORPTION, ITS THERMAL STABILITY, ITS IT'S, YOU KNOW, BRITTLENESS.
IT'S THERE'S A WHOLE RANGE OF THINGS THAT THEY TEST PRODUCTS FOR.
SO I LOOK AT THAT AND SEE WHAT STANDARDS THIS NEW PRODUCT MEETS OR PROPOSES OR PRESENTS ITSELF TO MEET VERSUS, YOU KNOW, TRIED TRUE PRODUCTS SUCH AS A TRUE BRICK.
DOES A FAKE BRICK HAVE THE SAME, YOU KNOW, MEET THE SAME STANDARDS AS A A REAL BRICK? AND NOT ALL BRICKS ARE MADE THE SAME EITHER, AS WE'VE I'VE LEARNED THROUGH MY EXPERIENCES AS WELL THAT I'VE HAD SOME BRICKS THAT HAVE FAILED. YOU KNOW, THE FACING STARTS TO COME OFF, THEY START TO DISCOLOR THAT KIND OF THING.
FACTORY MUTUAL ON CERTAIN ASSEMBLIES. NOW, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT PRODUCTS, IS SOME PRODUCTS ARE TESTED AS AN INDIVIDUAL PRODUCT AND OTHER PRODUCTS ARE TESTED AS AN ASSEMBLY.
AND SOME OF THAT IS RELATED TO CODE IN TERMS OF FIRE CODES AND WALL ASSEMBLIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO I HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THE MATERIAL IS BEING TESTED.
IF THEY LIST A UL OR A FACTORY MUTUAL TYPE APPROVAL.
[01:45:09]
MEETING SUSTAINABILITY OR, OR YOU KNOW, JUST IMPACT RESISTANCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.WEATHER ABILITY. ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE FOUND ON A COUPLE OF THE PRODUCTS HAS BEEN, HAVE BEEN PRESENTED OR PROPOSED IS THEY'RE NOT MADE IN THE UNITED STATES.
AND SO THEY'RE TESTING STANDARDS ARE DIFFERENT.
YOU KNOW, HAVE SOME, YOU KNOW, FINISH OR YOU ARE EUROPEAN STANDARD THAT IT'S BEEN TESTED TO.
BUT HOW DOES THAT EQUATE TO WHAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH AS AN AMERICAN, YOU KNOW, THE ASTM STANDARDS? AGAIN, I, I ALWAYS ASK ABOUT LOCAL INSTALLATIONS SO I CAN GO AND VISIT THOSE.
SO WE, YOU KNOW, HAS THIS BEEN APPROVED BEFORE AND IF SO, WHERE YOU COULD ALMOST CREATE A SCORECARD OUT OF THIS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, LONGEVITY INSTALLATION, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENTS, ETC.
AND JUST YOU CAN ALMOST SCORE AND CREATE A 1 TO 5, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF, IN A SCALE OF 1 TO 5, DOES THIS PRODUCT MEET YOU KNOW, COLOR RETENTION OR FADING OR CHALKING.
IF YOU GET A 4 OR 5, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER.
NOT SUBJECTIVE, BUT OBJECTIVE. SO THAT'S PART ONE OF WHAT I DO.
AND THEN PART TWO AND THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF FUN CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF.
IS IS THIS THE APPROPRIATE APPLICATION OF THAT MATERIAL.
IF WE SAY THIS MATERIAL IS GOOD TO GO, BUT NOW IS IT BEING USED APPROPRIATELY, WHERE IS IT BEING USED IN THE BUILDING? HOW WILL IT REACT WITH OTHER MATERIALS ADJACENT TO IT? HOW WILL WE DETAIL ADJACENT TO THOSE? YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF FLASHINGS IS ARE REQUIRED AT WINDOW OPENINGS OR DOOR OPENINGS? THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE OF THE THINGS ON THIS. A LOT OF THESE SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS THAT YOU DON'T SEE IN THEIR LITERATURE UNTIL YOU GO INTO THEIR INSTALLATION DETAILS, IS THEY REQUIRE A LOT OF FLASHINGS TO MAKE THEM WEATHER TIGHT.
AND YOU KNOW, FROM A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE FROM ACROSS THE STREET, YOU REALLY DON'T SEE THOSE LITTLE FLASHINGS, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR MARKETING MATERIALS. SO YOU NEED TO TAKE A DEEPER DIVE INTO HOW THEY HOW THEY REALLY APPLY.
YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WHERE THEY'RE USED, ARE THEY ON VERTICAL SURFACES, HORIZONTAL SURFACES, YOU KNOW, ON ROOFS OR EAVES? HOW DO THEY CONTACT THE GROUND? YOU KNOW, GREAT.
FAIL ON MY PART WAS YEARS AGO I WORKED ON THE, THE, THE SHOPS AT LANE AVENUE RENOVATION.
AND I'M LIKE, GREAT, LET'S USE REAL LIMESTONE. SO WE PUT IT ALL ALONG THE BOTTOM OF THE BUILDING AND ON SOME OF THE ARCHES AND THINGS. I WENT BACK FIVE YEARS LATER AND ALL THAT REAL LIMESTONE WAS ALL PITTED AND GROUTED OUT FROM ALL THE SALT THAT THEY THREW ON THE SIDEWALK.
SO I THINK WE SAW THAT WHEN WE WALKED BRIDGE STREET SOME LAST YEAR AS WELL.
SO, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THIS MATERIAL REACT TO OTHER CHEMICALS AND MAINTENANCE? MAINTENANCE AS WELL? HOW LARGE OF AN AREA ARE WE USING IT? BASSEM AND I HAD THIS CONVERSATION, AND JENNIFER THE OTHER DAY WAS.
IF IT'S A NEW MATERIAL, WHAT'S THE LIMITED RISK THAT WE'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT? IS IT GOING TO BE A MAJOR FAIL OR A SMALL FAIL IF THIS REALLY DOESN'T MEET OUR EXPECTATIONS? IN THE BROADER PICTURE OF THE LIFESPAN OF THE PROJECT, THE OF THE PROJECT OR THE BUILDING.
AND AGAIN, I MENTIONED HOW IT INTERFACES WITH OTHER MATERIALS.
IT'S THE FIRST PLACE THAT DIRT AND WATER IS GOING TO RUN DOWN THE FACE OF THE BUILDING AND YOU START GETTING THOSE NICE, BEAUTIFUL BLACK STREAKS ON YOUR BUILDING. SO I'LL MAKE COMMENTS ON THAT.
YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF ON ON THE REVIEWS AS WELL, HOW DOES IT HOW IS THIS MATERIAL? WHAT IS IT? EXPOSURE NOT ONLY TO THE SOIL OR TO THE GROUND, BUT TO SUNLIGHT.
ARE WE USING IT IN A PLACE WHERE IT'S GOING TO PUT IT IN HARM'S WAY IN TERMS OF ITS AGAIN FADING AND CHALKING UP FROM THE SUNLIGHT? AND THEN LASTLY, WHAT'S ITS EXPOSURE TO PEOPLE? YOU KNOW, ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE ABLE TO KICK THIS AND BANG IT AND, AND AND, YOU KNOW, PUT IT IN HARM'S WAY? SO THAT'S KIND OF THE FIRST CRITERIA. WHERE IS IT USED AND HOW IS IT USED.
[01:50:04]
AND THEN NUMBER TWO, IT KIND OF GOES INTO HOW IS IT USED.IS IS IT BEING PROPERLY DETAILED. AND I MENTIONED THIS EARLIER.
YOU KNOW, HOW HOW DOES IT HOW IS IT DETAIL WINDOW OPENINGS, DOOR OPENINGS SOFFITS AND EAVES.
WHAT TYPE OF EDGE TRIMS ARE YOU GOING TO SEE? BECAUSE A LOT OF AGAIN THESE THINNER MATERIALS, ELSE EITHER YOU HAVE TO HIT ANOTHER MATERIAL AT 90 DEGREES, BUT IF YOU DON'T. AND IT HAS THE EXPOSED FACE, WHAT'S THAT EXPOSED FACE GOING TO PRESENT TO THE PUBLIC? HOW IS IT INTERFACE WITH PARAPETS AND RAILINGS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, LEDGES? I KNOW, PARTICULARLY ON SOME OF THESE SYNTHETIC STONE MATERIALS WHERE YOU WANT TO CORBEL OUT AND CREATE THAT DEPTH IN THE WALL PLANE.
BUT WHAT TYPE OF FLASHINGS MAY OR MAY NOT BE REQUIRED TO MAKE THAT WEATHERTIGHT, WHICH YOU TYPICALLY WOULDN'T HAVE NECESSARILY IN A IN A TRUE MASONRY PRODUCT? THE THIRD CATEGORY IS THE PROPER INSTALLATION OF MATERIAL.
SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW IT'S USED, THE PROPER DETAILING.
THIS IS PROBABLY JUST AS EQUALLY, IF NOT MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE AGAIN A BEAUTIFUL MATERIAL CAN BE DESIGNED AND USED, BUT IF IT'S NOT INSTALLED CORRECTLY, IT YOU KNOW, IT'S A FAIL ON MY PART.
AND I THINK IN EVERYONE'S, EVERYONE'S THINGS, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE SYNTHETIC MATERIALS REQUIRE SPECIAL SAWS AND, AND TOOLS TO INSTALL THEM. DOES THE IS THE CONTRACTOR REALLY GOING TO BE USING THESE THINGS.
AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHEN WE WALKED BRIDGE STREET THERE WAS A CONVERSATION. WAS THIS THEN IS THIS THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY? BUILDING DEPARTMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY IS REALLY LIFE SAFETY.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT YOU KNOW, HEY, THAT FLASHING LOOKS LOOKS BAD.
I THINK YOU NEED TO REDO IT. THEY'RE ONLY REVIEW.
SHOULD BE. IS THE FLASHING INSTALLED CORRECTLY? YOU KNOW IT'S SO THAT IS. THAT'S THE REAL RUB, I THINK, IS IN TERMS OF THE LEVEL OF DETAIL THAT DUBLIN WANTS, AN OVERSIGHT THAT THEY WANT TO PROVIDE ON THESE IS, IS HOW ARE HOW WHAT MECHANISMS ARE IN PLACE TO CREATE THAT.
GUARANTEE OR ASSURANCE THAT THESE MATERIALS WILL BE INSTALLED PROPERLY.
YOU KNOW, THEY CAN BE THE ARCHITECT COULD DO HIS BEST TO DESIGN IT AND DETAIL IT.
WE COULD HAVE CHECKED THE BOX. IT'S A GREAT MATERIAL TO USE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF IT'S NOT INSTALLED PROPERLY, IT'S IT'S THE FIRST TWO STEPS ARE ARE MEANINGLESS IN MY MIND.
SO THAT'S REALLY THE PROCESS THAT I USE. AND IT'S NOT GREAT SCIENCE AS YOU PROBABLY SEE.
IT'S JUST MORE LOGIC AND EXPERIENCE AND MY OWN FAILURES.
WHICH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HOW YOU LEARN, RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO SHOW SOME OF THE I DID.
OH, BOY. I HAVE TO USE TECHNOLOGY THAT WAY. NO ONE EXPLAINED THAT.
OKAY, SO WHERE DO I POINT IT? AT YOU. HEY, MARK, CAN I JUST ADD ONE ONE MORE THING TO YOUR LIST? ABSOLUTELY. IT'S ME. YEAH. THERE'S ALSO THIS THING OF THE MATERIALS RELATIONSHIP TO ANOTHER MATERIAL THAT'S BEING APPLIED TO IT, NOT NECESSARILY BY THE SAME TRADE. AND AND SO HOW DOES THIS MATERIAL REACT TO OTHER MATERIALS THAT IT'S COMING IN CONTACT WITH.
AND I THINK YOU SEE A LOT OF METAL ISSUES RIGHT.
LIGHTS, LIGHT FIXTURES, RAILINGS THAT NOBODY THOUGHT ABOUT.
HOW DOES IT RELATE TO. WHAT'S IT GOING TO DO.
WHAT'S THE YOU KNOW ANYWAY? YEAH. NUMBER ONE.
YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND IT'S IT'S AN AGE OLD PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, AND YOU KNOW, PROBABLY NUMBER ONE CULPRIT ARE STEEL RAILINGS IN A CONCRETE SIDEWALK OR RETAINING WALL. RIGHT. IT'S GOING TO RUST.
YOU KNOW, I USED TO ALWAYS JOKE. YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO THINGS ABOUT CONCRETE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO CRACK. CONCRETE WILL ALWAYS CRACK.
AND, YOU KNOW, METAL IS GOING TO RUST IF IT'S NOT PROTECTED.
SO YEAH. AND WE SAW SOME OF THAT AT BRIDGE STREET.
I KNOW WHEN WE WERE WALKING AROUND THAT NIGHT, YOU KNOW, YOU STARTED SEEING THE RUST STAINS ON THE, ON THE, ON THE THING. THAT'S ONE OF MY PET PEEVES.
AND THEN THE OTHER ONE IS THE PARAPET COPINGS, WHICH IF YOU HAVE AN EIGHT FOOT LONG PARAPET, USE AN EIGHT FOOT LONG PIECE OF METAL. DON'T USE TWO FOURS BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET A DRIP LINE AND IT'S SOIL LINE RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE.
WHAT'S EVEN WORSE, WHEN THEY USE A SEVEN AND A ONE AND YOU GET TO DRIP OFF THE ONE EDGE OF THE BUILDING AND THAT. NO, BUT THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, AS ARCHITECTS, YOU GO BACK AND YOU JUST KIND OF WINCE AT LIKE,
[01:55:02]
OH, I THINK I JUST WOULD HAVE TAKEN TEN MORE MINUTES AND MEASURED SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. BUT THAT GOES TO THE POLICE.THE POLICE PART. RIGHT. SO I'M GOING TO TRY THIS.
SO I SENT SOME PHOTOGRAPHS. THEY'RE SOMEWHAT HUMOROUS, ACTUALLY.
YEAH. SO I LOVE BRIC. I MENTIONED THAT EARLIER.
THIS IS A BUILDING DOWNTOWN. I DID NOT DO IT.
IT'S JUST A PHOTO I HAPPENED TO FIND. BUT IF YOU TALK ABOUT COMPLEXITY OF BRIC DETAILING THIS, THIS LITTLE SNAPSHOT PROBABLY HAS IT ALL. SO NOW IF WE LOOK AT A REALLY NICE EXAMPLE OF BRICK, AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE AND THIS IS SO THIS IS BY MY OFFICE.
I DID NOT DO THIS. I GET TO DRIVE BY THIS EVERY MORNING AND JUST KIND OF CRINGE.
IT'S CRINGE WORTHY. THIS IS REAL, BRICK. SO AGAIN, CHECKS THE BOX.
IT'S A REAL BRICK, BUT IT'S A HORRIBLE APPLICATION OF REAL BRICK.
YOU KNOW, GARY, YOU PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, SPENDING SPENDING YOUR HEAD.
IT'S JUST. HOW DO YOU NOT EVEN LAY IT OUT ON BRICK DIMENSIONS AND YOU END UP WITH A THREE INCH LITTLE BRICK DETAIL ON THE ONE JAMB, AND THEY CARRY IN THE STACK BOND. IT ONLY MAKES ME DIZZY.
YOU KNOW, MY BROTHER AND I COULD HAVE DONE BETTER THAN THIS.
LAYING IT UP ON A WEEKEND, I THINK. SO YEAH, THIS.
SO. BUT MY POINT IS HERE NOT TO IS REALLY IT'S NOT JUST THE MATERIALS.
IT'S YOU'VE GOT TO CHECK. YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT ALL THREE.
ARE YOU USING IT APPROPRIATELY. AND IS IT BEING INSTALLED CORRECTLY.
SO YOU KNOW ON THIS ONE. SO THIS IS I THREW THIS IN THIS IS LANE AVENUE.
THIS IS ACTUALLY THE BACK AND I THREW THIS IN.
SO IT'S ALMOST A QUIZ. AND IT'S PROBABLY NOT THAT HARD OF A QUIZ, BUT PART OF THIS IS ACTUALLY REAL BRICK AND PART OF IT'S NOT. AND IT GOES BACK TO THE IDEA OF COST. AND WE WERE WORKING WITH EXISTING CONDITIONS THE WHOLE BACK OF FLOYD AVENUE. IF YOU EVER PARK BEHIND IT, YOU KNOW THERE IS PARKING BEHIND IT.
IS THIN BRICK. AND SO THE PART TO THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE DOWNSPOUT IS THAT WE LAMINATED.
AND THE REASON I PUT PUT THIS UP IS THIS IS 2005.
SO IT'S 20 YEARS OLD NOW. AND BUT IT IS TRUE THIN BRICK.
IT IS A CLAY PRODUCT. AND WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SEEING HAVE BEEN SOME CLAY PRODUCTS.
YOU'VE BEEN SEEING SOME ACRYLIC PRODUCTS. AND NOW A MIXTURE DRIVE.
IT HAS A MIXTURE OF THE TWO WHICH WAS THE LAST ONE WE SAW WHERE THEY'RE TAKING THE POLYMERS AND THEY'RE ADDING CLAY INTO IT TO GIVE IT MORE OF A BRICK FINISH, I GUESS IS PROBABLY THE BEST WORD.
OR TOOTH. YOU KNOW MR. FORD, CAN YOU CLARIFY? NEW BRICK VERSUS THIN BRICK. AND IF THERE ARE CLASSIFICATIONS OF THIN BRICK.
IF THIN BRICK CAN BE CLAY VERSUS SO CAN YOU CLARIFY THE LABELS? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. SO IN MY MIND, THIN BRICK IS A IT'S A BRICK IS IT'S BAKED.
IT'S A CLAY PRODUCT. AND WHAT THEY DO IS THEY WILL MAKE A FULL BRICK JUST LIKE YOU'D HAVE ON YOUR HOUSE, BUT THEY SLICE THE FRONT OF IT OFF THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE THREE AND 5 OR 3 EIGHTHS OF AN INCH OR 5/8 OF AN INCH, DEPENDING ON THE MANUFACTURER AND THE BACK OF IT ON THIS BUILDING, WHAT THEY DID.
SO THEN THOSE GET APPLIED TO THE FACE OF THE BUILDING.
SO TO ME THIN BRICK IS A BRICK. IT'S STILL A MASONRY PRODUCT.
AND IT'S SET. THIS WAS THE THAT THIS MANUFACTURER ACTUALLY HAD A METAL GRID SYSTEM, THAT THE BRICKS ACTUALLY SNAPPED INTO THEIR LIKE TABS, AND THAT THOSE GOT ATTACHED TO THE WALL BECAUSE THERE USED TO BE A PAINTED BLOCK WALL, CMU BLOCK WALL, AND THEN THEY ACTUALLY COME IN AND THEY GROUT THE JOINTS JUST LIKE YOU WOULD A TRUE BRICK.
SO THAT'S ALL. IT'S ALL MASONRY AND IT'S ACTUALLY WEATHERED PRETTY WELL.
THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY ISSUES OF DELAMINATION OR ANYTHING BECAUSE IT HAS BOTH A MECHANICAL FASTENING AND THEN THE GROUT THAT BETWEEN THE, BETWEEN THE UNITS. AND IT'S SO THE NICE THING ABOUT IT IS YOU ACTUALLY CAN MATCH WHATEVER BRICK YOU'RE USING IN THE BALANCE OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE YOU SAY, OH, I WANT TO USE BELDEN 530 FOR MY TOWER FEATURES, BUT I HAVE THIS OTHER CONDITION WHERE I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR STEEL OR I WANT TO ARCH OVER SOMETHING.
I CAN USE THIN BRICK. I DON'T HAVE TO USE ALL THE STEEL, BUT IT'S THE SAME BRICK.
[02:00:03]
IT'S JUST ONE. HAPPENS TO BE THIN AND MECHANICALLY ATTACHED TO THE WALL.THERE ARE OTHER BRICKS. SO ABOUT, I'M TRYING TO SAY 12 YEARS AGO DRIVE IT, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE GENERIC NAME FOR EIFS. DRYVIT MANUFACTURER CAME OUT WITH WHERE THEY CREATED STYROFOAM PANELS THAT WERE SCORED TO LOOK LIKE BRICK.
AND THEN THEY APPLIED DIFFERENT ACRYLIC AND POLYMERS TO CREATE DIFFERENT BRICK COLORS ON IT.
BUT THE GROUT LINES, IN FACT, IF YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT PHOTO, I OH, THAT'S JUST THE BACK.
THAT'S THAT'S LANE AVENUE AGAIN. THAT'S LANE AVENUE AGAIN.
SORRY. OKAY. HERE WE GO. SO NOW THIS IS A PROJECT THAT IS WE HAD EXISTING BRICK.
IT IS A RENOVATION AND THIS IS THAT DRIVE IT PRODUCT.
SO WHERE IT SAYS CASEY AT THE AT THE TOP, THAT PEDIMENT IN THAT SECTION IN THERE, THAT'S ALL STYROFOAM AND IT HAS ALL THE JOINTS. IT CAME OUT IN PANELS AND IT WAS GLUED TO THE WALL.
AND THE REASON IT WAS USED IS THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO STRUCTURE TO SUPPORT ANYTHING WITH ANY WEIGHT, YOU KNOW, ANY MASS TO IT. AND SO THIS IS A, THIS IS AT KINGSDALE.
AND SO IT WAS A COMBINATION OF TRYING TO BLEND SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS TO REAL PRODUCTS.
AND THEN WE PAINTED THE REAL BRICK, YOU KNOW, AS CLOSE TO THE COLOR THERE WERE, THERE WERE SOME WINS AND THERE WERE SOME LOSSES ON THIS PROJECT. AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE FIRST ONE TO ADMIT IT THERE WERE THINGS THAT I GO BACK, I LIVE LIKE A MILE FROM HERE, AND I CRINGE SOMETIMES WHEN I GO UP THERE. MR. HELD UP. HOW HAS IT HELD UP? WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE PARTS OF IT HAVE HELD UP REALLY WELL.
THIS HAS ACTUALLY HELD UP REALLY WELL WHERE IT HASN'T HELD UP WELL.
AND I BROUGHT A SLIDE OF THAT IN IS IT'S PROBABLY A COUPLE SLIDES AHEAD.
BUT KEEP GOING. THERE'S I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PICTURES I USE.
SO AGAIN IT WAS USED MIXED WITH REAL BRICK FOR THE VERTICAL LOADS.
AND THE HORIZONTAL LOADS WERE ALL YOU CAN DO.
PULLED DETAILS. THIS IS ALL SYNTHETIC BRICK OR THIS IS ALL MADE OUT OF STYROFOAM.
IT HAS A ACRYLIC COATING BUT EVENTUALLY I'M GOING TO GET A PHOTO.
THERE YOU GO. THIS IS WHERE YOU HAVE PROBLEMS. HOW'S IT HELD UP? IT'S WHEREVER THEY'VE PENETRATED IT WITH ANY KIND OF MECHANICAL FASTENER.
IT'S BLISTERED. IT'S GOT WATER BEHIND IT AND IT STARTS TO FAIL.
I THINK THERE WAS ONE. THERE MIGHT BE ONE MORE THAT WAS.
JUST GIVES YOU A LITTLE GEOLOCATION. THERE YOU GO.
SO THIS IS AFTER A TENANT LEFT, AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GOT TO DEAL WITH NOW.
SO NOT A BIG FAN OF THIS WAS DIRECTED TO USE IT.
WE TRIED TO USE IT AS YOU KNOW AS BEST WE CAN.
YOU CAN SEE WE'VE GOT NICE LITTLE BRICK PATTERN THERE.
THEY CREATED THE DIFFERENT PATTERNS, HOW WE DREW THEM, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, HEADER COURSES AND STRETCHER COURSES AND THINGS MIXED TOGETHER. WE WERE ABLE TO GET SOME, SOME RELIEF IN THE IN THE FACE OF IT, BUT IT'S ALL STYROFOAM AND IT'S COATED WITH ACRYLIC POLYMERS AND YOU COULD PICK THE COLORS.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT AS PERMITTED RIGHT NOW IN DUBLIN OR IS USED ANYWHERE? I DON'T KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN USED. I KNOW WHAT WAS PRESENTED TID WAS AND I DON'T HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT WAS WHAT THE NEWER VERSION OF THIS IS. SO THE NEWER VERSION OF THIS IS DRIVE IT AGAIN.
THE COMPANY HAS TAKEN THIS AND THEY'RE NO LONGER DOING IT WITH JUST ACRYLICS.
THEY'RE STARTING TO MODIFY IT WITH REAL, REAL CLAY.
THANK YOU. AND THEY'RE NOT DOING THE FAKE GROUT JOINTS.
THEY'RE DOING IT ALMOST LIKE THE THIN BRICK WHERE YOU GET THE BRICK UNITS.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO COME BACK AND AND TROWEL IN REAL MORTAR.
SO IT'S IT'S EVOLVING WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO COMPETE WITH THE THIN BRICK IN TERMS OF THE APPEARANCE AND THE DURABILITY OF IT, BUT ALSO KEEP IT LIGHTWEIGHT. I KNOW OF NO PLACES WHERE THIS IS A PERMITTED MATERIAL IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN.
STAFF CAN CORRECT ME IF THAT'S INCORRECT, BUT I KNOW OF NO ZONES.
JONES. YEAH. RATHI HAD PUT TOGETHER AN INVENTORY THAT WE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET.
MATERIALS OF ALL. OR EXCUSE ME? ALL THE MATERIALS THAT WERE USED OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS.
[02:05:02]
AND SHE'S SHAKING HER HEAD? NO. SO. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BEEN USED IN DUBLIN.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT IT'S IN ANY, LIKE, DEVELOPMENT TEXT LIKE INDIVIDUAL.
WHAT'S IT, WHAT'S IT CALLED? IS THERE A TERM FOR THIS? FOR THE COMPLETELY. EITHER ONE I GUESS. FOR THE.
IS IT JUST US OR IS IT. YEAH. I MEAN IT'S DRIVE IT, BUT IS THERE A TERM FOR THIS.
SO WHEN WE HEAR IT I CAN'T REMEMBER THE ACTUAL PRODUCT NAME, WHAT THEY CALLED IT.
I'M NOT PROMOTING THIS. WE UNDERSTAND. YEAH. NO, THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IT IN.
IT WAS AN EDUCATIONAL QUESTION FOR US. SO WE KNOW WHEN THIS TERM.
YEAH, WHATEVER. BUT WHEN I THINK OF THIN BRICK, I'M STILL THINKING OF BRICK THAT'S BEEN CUT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S FIRED NOW. AND IT ACTUALLY COSTS MORE THAN REAL BRICK BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO CUT IT.
THERE'S MORE COST INVOLVED IN THE MANUFACTURING OF IT.
THEY HAVE TO CUT THE BRICK AND. AND YOU'RE PAYING FOR A FULL BRICK, BUT YOU'RE ONLY GETTING YOU'RE PAYING FOR A WHOLE SANDWICH, BUT YOU'RE ONLY GETTING THE TWO SLICES OF BREAD. EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE GETS THROWN OUT, BUT THEY SAVE ON STRUCTURE AND THEY SAVE ON STRUCTURE. ABSOLUTELY. AND TRUCKING COSTS.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS THE NEWER DRIVE IT PRODUCT HAS IN THEIR LITERATURE IS THEY ARE NOW PROMOTING WHERE YOU CAN GET IT. PANELIZED.
AND I THINK THERE WERE ABOUT 5 OR 6 COURSES, HIGH COURSES OF BRICK AND MAYBE ABOUT 32IN LONG THAT COME PRE SO YOU CAN FIT TOGETHER LIKE, YOU KNOW, GRANDMA'S KITCHEN AND ONE PERSON CAN LIFT IT INTO PLACE, ONE PERSON CAN LIFT IT. AND THERE'S A LABOR ISSUE, OF COURSE.
IT'S LESS TRUCKING COSTS. IT'S LESS LABOR TO INSTALL.
SO AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF PAGE ONE COST.
RIGHT. IT'S WE SEE THE SAME THING IN THE ROOFING INDUSTRY.
EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO CUT COSTS. YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE YEARS AGO WE'D DO MEMBRANE ROOFS AND YOU COULDN'T GO WIDER THAN AN EIGHT FOOT SHEET, AND YOU HAD TO HAVE TWO FASTENERS ON SO MANY INCHES ON CENTER TO MEET CERTAIN UPLIFT REQUIREMENTS AND TO GET WARRANTIES.
AMAZINGLY, THE TESTING HAS PROVED, OH, NOW YOU CAN GO THE TEN FOOT SHEETS AND THEN YOU CAN GO THE 12 FOOT SHEETS. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU HAVE 100,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING AND YOU'RE PUTTING EIGHT FOOT SHEETS VERSUS 12 FOOT SHEETS, YOU NOW HAVE HALF THE NUMBER OF SEAMS AND THE HALF THE NUMBER OF LABOR.
TIME TO GO IN AND WELD ALL THOSE SEAMS AND DO THE FASTENERS.
IT'S STILL THE SAME PRODUCT, BUT THEY'VE CHANGED THE RULES TO SAVE COST.
SO A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS PRODUCTS ARE SIMPLY ABOUT THAT.
I MEAN, THEY'RE TRYING TO THEY'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, QUICKER TO THE MARKET AND SAVE COSTS.
YOU CAN YOU COULD PROBABLY BRING TO AN APARTMENT COMPLEX ONE SEMI TRAILER WITH THE FAUX BRICK THAT FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR SEMIS WOULD NEED IF YOU DID IT IN REAL BRICK.
SO YOU'VE GOT ALL THOSE TRUCKING COSTS YOU'RE SAVING. SO AGAIN THAT'S NOT I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S GOOD OR BAD, IT'S JUST WHAT IT IS. SO NOW FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE COMMISSION, WE HAVE MR. FORD HERE. AND WE'VE HAD SOME KIND OF CONTINUAL QUESTIONS.
SO WHEN WE HAVE NEW MATERIAL THAT WE HAVE NOT USED BEFORE THAT WE SEND OUT FOR AN OPINION, YOU'VE TALKED TO US HOW YOU EVALUATE THAT, BUT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT MAYBE PERMITTING A MATERIAL, MY NATURAL PREDISPOSITION IS, HEY, LET'S USE IT ON A SMALL SCALE, MAYBE A SECONDARY MATERIAL, AND THEN LET'S CONSIDER ITS PLACEMENT. SO IF IT MAY BE A NATURAL MATERIAL THAT COULD BE SUBJECT TO MOISTURE ISSUES, MAYBE WE SHELTER IT A LITTLE BIT. MAYBE IF IT'S THE OPPOSITE, WE USE IT WHERE IT SITS IN THE SUN.
DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER GUIDELINES? DO YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN THAT? KIND OF NATURAL. I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS, BUT BUT YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I DO.
THERE WAS ONE THAT CAME UP A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO OF WHERE THE THE APPLICANT, THE APPLICATION HAD THE, THE THE FAUX WOOD. WOULD MATERIAL. AND IT WAS A, YOU KNOW, HIGH DENSITY PLASTIC MATERIAL.
LIGHTWEIGHT. THEY WERE, THEY WERE USING ON THE UNDERSIDE OF A SOFFIT.
I THINK THAT'S ALL RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE OUT OF THE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE HIDDEN BY RAIN.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE DIRECT SUNLIGHT. SO THE LONGEVITY OF THAT PROJECT IS SOMEWHAT PROTECTED.
[02:10:03]
SO YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A BIG PART OF YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S NOT THE PRODUCT.IT'S HOW THAT'S PART ONE. PART TWO IS HOW IS IT BEING USED.
YOU KNOW, WHERE IS IT BEING USED. ABSOLUTELY.
I TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. OKAY. THEN LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION, OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WE MAY HAVE FOR MR. FORD WHILE HE'S HERE, MR. GARVIN? YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE HOW WE'RE ORGANIZING IT.
I'VE GOT SOME KIND OF COMMENTS RELEVANT TO WHAT HE SAID.
ARE WE GOING TO SAVE THAT FOR LATER OR KIND OF MIX IT TOGETHER AS A DISCUSSION? WELL, I THINK WE'LL HANDLE QUESTIONS. AND THEN ANY KIND OF SUM UP, BECAUSE THE QUESTIONS MAY ACTUALLY REITERATE THE COMMENTS THAT YOU HAVE JOTTED DOWN.
AND JUST JUST FOR CLARITY, WE HAVE ALSO SOME IMAGES BASED ON SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS BEFORE.
AND AND SO WE HAVE SOME PICTURES OF THOSE THAT MAY BE HELPFUL TO ALSO GET MR. FORD'S FEEDBACK ON. AND WE'D LIKE TO ALSO GET SOME FEEDBACK ON SOME ROOFS.
BUT SO WHETHER YOU WANT TO OPEN IT UP TO SOME PICTURES HERE, THAT MAY HELP GUIDE THE QUESTION OR WHETHER THERE ARE SOME. WHY DON'T WE PAGE THROUGH THE PICTURES? WE'VE WE'VE DONE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PICTURES.
LET'S CONTINUE ON THROUGH. AND THEN IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS, WE'LL TREAT THIS SOMEWHAT INFORMALLY.
BUT WE DO WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL OF EVERYONE'S TIME, ESPECIALLY WITH BACK TO BACK WEEK MEETINGS.
SO SO I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO YOUR YOUR YOUR WOOD.
SYNTHETIC WOOD EXAMPLE. YEAH. AS WE'RE LOOKING THROUGH THE PICTURES SO CAN YOU.
WHAT'S YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THE USE OF SYNTHETIC WOOD? AS A, AS A DURABLE MATERIAL, LIKE FOR. A GREAT EXAMPLE IS THE NORTH POOL, WHICH I SEE EVERY DAY THAT THEY USE REAL WOOD.
IT LOOKS GREAT, BUT AS IT WEATHERS, IT DOESN'T LOOK SO GREAT, ESPECIALLY NEXT TO THE SPRINKLERS, ESPECIALLY NEXT TO SPRINKLERS. SO IN GENERAL, THOUGH, THERE'S CASE BY CASE EXAMPLES OF FORCING THEM TO USE NATURAL WOOD AND THEN IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MAINTAIN IT OR WHATNOT. RIGHT.
AND IT NATURALLY, YOU KNOW WEATHERS WHAT WHAT IS YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THAT PIECE OF IT I GUESS.
COULD WE HAVE USED A SYNTHETIC WOOD THERE AND THEN IT LOOKS GREAT.
YEAH. SO IN TERMS OF SYNTHETIC WOOD, IN MY MIND THERE'S KIND OF TWO PARTS.
THERE'S THE I'LL CALL IT THE JAMES HARDIE TYPE OF WOOD THAT YOU CAN THAT IS PAINTABLE SO YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAINTAIN IT THROUGH THE PAINT FINISH. I JUST HAD I HAD CEDAR ON MY HOUSE.
I HAVE A 100 YEAR OLD HOUSE AND I, THE CARPENTER BEES WERE JUST TEARING IT APART.
SO THERE'S A PLACE, A TIME AND A PLACE FOR THAT.
THE SYNTHETIC WOODS THAT, LIKE, ARE ON THE SCREEN, WHERE YOU ARE REALLY RELYING ON THE WOOD FINISH TO BE THE ESTHETIC INSTEAD OF A PAINTED FINISH. I THINK YOU HAVE TO TAKE A REALLY HARD LOOK AT IT.
THE LITTLE STATE BANK BUILDING WE DID ON 161, WE USED REAL CEDAR.
WE USE REAL CEDAR ON THE WHOLE FOODS DOWN ON LANE AVENUE, AND IT TAKES A BEATING.
REAL CEDAR. YOU HAVE TO KEEP AFTER IT, YOU KNOW, RESEAL IT AND RESEAL IT.
I THINK IT'S FINLAND WHERE THEY BASICALLY I DON'T WANT TO SAY FREEZE DRIED, BUT THEY BASICALLY BAKE THE MOISTURE OUT OF THE WOOD AND IT MAKES IT MUCH MORE THERMALLY OR EXCUSE ME, DIMENSIONALLY STABLE AND MAKES IT INSECT RESISTANT, MAKES IT ROT RESISTANT, AND YOU CAN STILL STAIN IT. IT'S REAL. IT'S REAL WOOD.
BUT THERE THERE'S A HEATING PROCESS AND A COOLING PROCESS THAT THEY USE.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY THE NEXT GENERATION OF WHAT I WOULD SEE, YOU KNOW, IN SOME OF THESE APPLICATIONS WHERE YOU WANT REAL WOOD ON THE OUTSIDE OF A BUILDING. THEY'VE HAD REALLY GOOD SUCCESS WITH IT IN EUROPE.
SO I GUESS MAYBE ANOTHER FOLLOW UP TO THAT TO, TO IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION, I THINK WE WE SEE TRESPA, WE SEE HIGH PRESSURE LAMINATE, WE SEE THESE AND EVERYBODY KIND OF OH NO.
BUT IN YOUR OPINION, CAN WE START TO SHOULD WE BE AND CAN WE START TO CONSIDER THOSE MORE FOR THE EXAMPLE THAT'S UP ON THE SCREEN NOW AS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE THAT WOULD LOOK AND ACCOMPLISH THE WOULD LOOK THAT THEY'RE AFTER AND BE, CAN WE BE OKAY? CAN WE COMFORTABLY OKAY WITH THAT, IN YOUR OPINION, I GUESS IS I THINK SO YOUR MICROPHONE JUST WENT OFF.
YES. GONE OVER THREE MINUTES. I THINK YEAH. IF IT HAS THE RIGHT FASTENER TYPES, THE RIGHT FLASHING TYPES THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME, BUT YEAH, I THINK SO.
[02:15:03]
BECAUSE YOU GET THE DURABILITY OUT OF IT, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY YOU GET THAT, YOU GET THE INSTANT GRATIFICATION OF BEAUTIFUL FINISH AND IT'S GOING TO STAY THAT WAY FOR, WELL, ACCORDING TO LITERATURE, 20 YEARS. SO WHERE CEDAR YOU KNOW, AGAIN THE INSECTS AND EVERYTHING.GET AT IT. SO MR.. WAIT, SO THIS IMAGE ON THE RIGHT, DID WE APPROVE THAT? THAT'S. YEAH, THAT ONE WE APPROVED RECENTLY. YES.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST USED UNDERNEATH. I THOUGHT WHAT WAS UNDERNEATH ON THAT PROJECT? NO, MAYBE I WASN'T AROUND THAT TIME. MR. ALEXANDER, THAT LOOKS TERRIBLE.
YEAH. YEAH. WE DIDN'T. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, THAT LOOKS TERRIBLE TO ME.
THAT DOES NOT LOOK. THAT LOOKS SO FAKE. BUT MY POINT WAS THAT LOOKED GREAT ON DAY ONE.
YOU THINK? YEAH, SURE. YEAH. AND IT'S JUST WEATHERED, THOUGH.
NO, THE RIGHT SIDE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RIGHT SIDE. RIGHT? HE'S TALKING ABOUT PENZONE ON THE RIGHT. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LEFT SIDE. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE RIGHT SIDE. OKAY. AND AND I BUT I WANT TO MAKE THE POINT IS THAT. AND YOU SAID IT EARLIER ABOUT, LIKE, A SOFFIT OR SOMETHING.
HERE'S A MAJOR ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE THAT WE'RE USING, A NOT REAL PRODUCT.
AND IT JUST IT'S LIKE IT'S COMPOUNDING TO ME.
DON'T BLAME US DOWN HERE. NO, NO. MR. ALEXANDER, DID YOU WANT TO.
YEAH. I HAVE A QUESTION THAT GOES ALONG WITH YOUR TWO QUESTIONS FOR MARK REMARK BECAUSE WE SAW THAT ONE APPLICANT HAD A HIGH PRESSURE LAMINATE, AND HE TALKED ABOUT SOME BLUE MATERIAL, AND IT WAS REALLY VAGUE ABOUT WHAT THE PRODUCT WAS, IS THERE. NOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM SOME OF OUR CONVERSATIONS, JAMIE'S HAD GOOD LUCK WITH THIS.
THIS TRESPA. IS THERE A HIERARCHY IN THESE HIGH PRESSURE LAMINATES THAT SOME YOU YOU FEEL LIKE ARE SUCCESSFUL AND SOME ARE NOT? WELL, TRUST IS PROBABLY THE TRUST IS PROBABLY THE MOST NOTABLE RIGHT NOW IN THE MARKET. BUT THERE WAS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX DOWN IN GRANDVIEW ON NORTON AVENUE OR HOLLY AVENUE.
AND SO THE FIRST COUPLE SECTIONS LOOKED REALLY GOOD.
SO AGAIN, IT'S IT'S HARD TO BLAME THE PRODUCT WHEN IT'S NOT BEING USED CORRECTLY.
THIS THE THE OBJECTION I HAVE TO WHAT I SEE THERE IS THERE'S NO EDGE TRIM.
IT'S THAT'S NOT HOW YOU WOULD LAY UP OR USE REAL WOOD.
RIGHT. IT JUST LOOKS LIKE WALLPAPER. SO I THINK AGAIN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IS IT BEING USED APPROPRIATELY? I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BLAME THAT ON THE PRODUCT.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S THE DETAILING OF THE AND THEY ALSO KIND OF LAID THIS OUT WITH IN A PLANK FORM, WHICH WOULD'VE LOOKED A LOT BETTER TOO. YEAH. I MEAN, IT SAYS IT HAS THE SEAMS IN IT THAT LOOK LIKE LIKE LITERALLY CUT OUT THE WALLPAPER LIKE YOU SAID. YEAH, WELL, I'M SORRY YOU SAID BLUE PRODUCT, I DIDN'T.
YEAH. IS THERE IS ARE THERE SOME PRODUCTS. BECAUSE HERE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS THEY PROBABLY INSTALLED IT CORRECTLY BECAUSE THESE PLASTIC MATERIALS HAVE A COEFFICIENT OF EXPANSION THAT YOU HAVE TO THAT YOU HAVE TO ANTICIPATE SO THAT THOSE SEAMS ARE PROBABLY A REQUIREMENT OF THE MATERIAL.
YEAH, BUT THESE THESE MATERIALS ARE PRETTY NEW, AND THEY'RE MORE COMING OUT.
AND SO IS THERE A POINT? ARE THERE SOME OF THESE THAT ARE RELIABLE AND SOME ARE NOT? OR WE JUST SEND THE REQUEST TO YOU AND YOU DO THE RESEARCH AND YOU LET US KNOW.
WELL, THAT'S KIND OF BEEN THE PROCESS. AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY'RE ALL SO NEW IT'S HARD TO GO OUT AND LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR 15, 20 YEARS AND SEE HOW IT'S PERFORMED. THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IN SOME OF THE EXAMPLES OF MY FAILS WHERE, YOU KNOW, 25 YEARS AGO, USING ETERNIT SOUNDED LIKE A GREAT PRODUCT, AND IT TURNED OUT NOT TO BE A GREAT PRODUCT.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME HIT AND MISSES THE, YOU KNOW, THE BEST I ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, IS MY I FEEL LIKE AS A CLIENT, AS A CONSULTANT, NOT ONLY TO YOU BUT TO MY OTHER CLIENTS IS IT'S MY JOB TO PRESENT THE INFORMATION. IT'S FOR THE CLIENT TO MAKE DECISIONS.
AND I TRY TO TRY TO PROVIDE THE MOST ACCURATE INFORMATION I CAN TO BASE THAT DECISION.
BUT IT'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, TIME IS THE TEST THAT'S UNFORTUNATE IS ON ALL THESE PRODUCTS.
TIME IS GOING TO BE THE TEST ON HOW THEY WHETHER HOW THEY, YOU KNOW, HOW THE SUN'S GOING TO LIKE YOU SAY, THE PLASTICS. THAT'S THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WORRY ME, THE PLASTICS BECAUSE OF THE UV.
AND YOU KNOW, THEY MAY SAY, OH, IT HAS A 20 YEAR GUARANTEE.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF IT FAILS IN 12 YEARS? WHERE'S THE GUARANTEE?
[02:20:02]
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? IS IT MATERIALS ONLY? AND ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT WAS WHAT'S THE ENFORCEMENT.AND WHAT RECOURSE DO YOU HAVE ON THAT NEW OWNER.
SO YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S THE CHALLENGE IS THE TIME ELEMENT.
GARY. I JUST THEY HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE MARKET LONG ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, AND THEY SAY WELL THEY'VE BEEN USING THEM IN EUROPE FOR, YOU KNOW, 40 YEARS BY THE WAY, WE CAN FAULT EVERYONE ON THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE.
VOTED YES ON THAT. OH, YOU WENT BACK. YEAH. 2023, MARCH 16TH.
CAN WE REDO THAT? BUT I, I THINK I DID THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE I REVIEWED.
LIKE IF THEY WOULD HAVE PUT THE TRIM UP, IF THEY WOULD HAVE INSTALLED IT LIKE IT WAS MEANT TO BE INSTALLED IN THE PLATFORM TO MAKE IT LOOK, IT WOULD LOOK NOT LIKE WOOD, BUT IT LOOKED INFINITELY BETTER. YEAH. AND THAT'S A, THAT'S YOU KNOW, I EVEN I THE LAST ONE WHERE I GOT THERE WAS THE APPLICATION.
IT WAS THE WHAT'S THE CAR. THE CROWN. THEY HAD THE BIG IMPLIED THE BIG RED STRUCTURE.
RIGHT. SO MERCEDES, WAS IT? YEAH. WHAT WAS THE GRANT? GRANT OR WHATEVER. I GRENADIER? YEAH. THANK YOU.
I THAT ONE. YEAH. I WAS REALLY CAUTIOUS ON HOW I THOUGHT MY ROLE WAS TO BE ON THAT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK I SAID SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THE BIG RED A IT'S IT'S THEIR LOGO, WHICH I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL I GOOGLED IT, BUT IT IS VERY.
BUT IT'S VERY SUBTLE. IT'S IT'S VERY SUBTLE AND YOU KNOW, BUT IT WAS AT AN APPROPRIATE USE OF IT.
SO I TRIED TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT ELBOW AND NUDGE TO AT LEAST THINK ABOUT THAT, BUT I DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS MY ROLE TO SAY A, I LIKE IT OR I DON'T LIKE IT. YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S YOUR ROLE.
AND SO I DIDN'T WANT TO OVERSTEP MY BOUNDS. BUT THAT ONE, I DID MAKE A POINT.
THEY WERE THEY WERE VARYING METAL PANELS THAT THEY WANTED TO USE ON THE BUILDING, AND ONE WAS THE ALUCOBOND, WHICH WE USE QUITE A BIT, AND IT'S A THICKER PRODUCT.
YEAH. YOU KNOW, AND IT'S IT DETAILS OUT NICELY.
IT INSTALLS NICELY. IT'S DIMENSIONALLY STABLE.
AND I THINK I VOICED MY OPINION ON THAT, THAT IF THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT TYPE OF LEVEL OF RENOVATION, THEY SHOULD USE THE HIGHER QUALITY PRODUCT EVERYWHERE. SO I HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE WHAT'S THE WORD? I DON'T WANT TO SAY AGGRESSIVE, BUT I'VE BEEN A LITTLE MORE FORTHCOMING, IN MY OPINION, ON STEP TWO OF THE PROCESS.
AND MY CHEAT SHEET HERE IS, IS IT THE IS THE PRODUCT? OKAY. AND NOW I'M STARTING TO WEIGH IN A LITTLE BIT MORE.
IS IT BEING USED APPROPRIATELY? AND IF YOU WANT THAT, I'M GLAD TO DO IT.
IF YOU DON'T WANT THAT, I WON'T DO IT. SO BUT TO YOUR YOUR POINT, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHERE IS IT BEING USED, HOW MUCH ARE THEY USING IT. AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE DOWNSIDE IF, IF, IF IT DOESN'T PERFORM, YOU KNOW, AND WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION I SKIMMED THE MEETING MINUTES.
AND ESSENTIALLY THAT PARTICULAR USE CASE WAS THIS IS UNPROVEN.
WE'RE NOT WE'VE DENIED IT IN THE PAST. CONSULTANT SAYS YES, WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON LONGEVITY, QUALITY, ETC.. THE APPLICANT IS AWARE THAT HE MAY IT MAY FAIL.
HE MAY NEED TO REMOVE IT AND REPLACE IT. SO SO WE COUCHED IT QUITE A BIT.
BUT THIS IS ONE OF THOSE HEY, LET'S LET'S TRY IT OUT.
SO FOR THE SAKE OF EVERYONE'S TIME, WE'RE COMING UP ON 9:00 THIS EVENING.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE RESPECTFUL OF MR. FORD'S TIME. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS A VALUABLE EXERCISE FOR THE COMMISSION.
SO LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION, DO WE HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS? DO WE HAVE DIALOG THAT WE WANT TO HAVE WITH THE APPLICANT? SORRY. WITH THE CONSULTANT. SO MR. GARVIN, DO YOU WANT TO START? THANK YOU. YEAH, I JUST HAD A COUPLE OF POINTS.
FIRST OF ALL, MARK, YOU'VE GOT A REALLY DIFFICULT RESPONSIBILITY HERE.
I CAN APPRECIATE THAT. I GUESS WHAT KIND OF CAUGHT ME EARLY ON IN YOUR STANDARDS FOR TESTING THESE? YOU MENTIONED COST AND SUSTAINABILITY FIRST. AND I WOULD SAY OUR PROBABLY FIRST THOUGHT ON MATERIALS IS ESTHETICS AND DURABILITY AND LONGEVITY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO SEE YOUR PROCESS ORIENTED MORE AROUND THAT SIDE THAN THE COST, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY IMPORTANT BUT MORE IMPORTANT TO DEVELOPERS AND BUILDERS.
[02:25:01]
I'M NOT. NO I'M NOT. THOSE ARE I THINK THAT WAS UNDER THE CATEGORY OF WHY DO WE CHOOSE WHAT WE CHOOSE? RIGHT? FROM A DESIGNER STANDPOINT, THAT'S NOT HOW I'M EVALUATING THE PRODUCTS.YEAH, OKAY. THAT MAKES SENSE. I'M NOT I'M COST AGNOSTIC IN TERMS OF I'M JUST I'M SAYING, HOW DO YOU GET THESE THINGS PROPOSED TO YOU? AND A LOT OF THE DRIVERS ARE COST. YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE.
I JUST THINK OUR RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE TO KIND OF BE A LOT MORE RESERVED ON NEW MATERIALS, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE SO MUCH GOING UP RIGHT NOW.
KIND OF MY SAME POINT ABOUT DEVELOPERS AND, AND BUILDERS MIGHT HAVE ONE PERSPECTIVE, BUT IF YOU GET CONTRACTORS OPINIONS ON DIFFERENT MATERIALS THEY'VE WORKED WITH, YOU MIGHT GET A PERSPECTIVE THAT'S INDEPENDENT OF COST AND MORE ALIGNS WITH OUR GOALS.
SO THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS. THANK YOU, MR. GARVIN.
SO MR. DESHLER. NOT TOO MUCH. JUST A QUESTION, MR. FORD. SO YOU SAID SOMETHING AND IT WAS ABOUT YOUR.
WHEN YOU'RE CONSULTED, DO YOU PROVIDE SOMETHING IN A WRITTEN FORM BACK TO THE CITY, OR IS IT MORE VERBAL? DO WE GET COPIES OF THOSE? SO FOR INSTANCE, HERE'S THE ONE ON THE TRESPA MATERIAL ON THAT PENCIL.
SO IT'S HEY, I'VE EVALUATED THIS. THIS IS WHAT MY FINDINGS ARE.
WE GET THOSE BACK FROM MR. FORD WHEN STAFF SUBMITS TO MR. FORD. BUT, LIKE SO WE. SORRY. THAT'S A GREAT.
THAT'S MY QUESTION. WE GET THAT REPORT BECAUSE WE DO.
SO LIKE WHEN WE HAVE IF WE HAD AN APPLICATION THIS EVENING AND THERE WAS MATERIAL INCLUDED AND IT WAS NEWER MATERIAL, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE SENT OFF A REQUEST. IT COMES BACK.
BUT THIS IS OPPORTUNITY. SO STAFF, ESPECIALLY AS WE HAVE NEW COMMISSIONERS, IF WE CAN INCLUDE PREVIOUS OPINIONS ON THE SAME MATERIAL, BECAUSE USUALLY WE DON'T SEND OFF TO MR. FORD FOR EVERY USE OF EVERY MATERIAL.
BUT THIS IS A GOOD POINT. THANK YOU. MR.. I WANT TO GO BACK. WELL, HE SAID HE HAD GAVE AN OPINION RELATIVE TO THE PRODUCTS USED IN THE APPLICATION THAT WE HAD LAST WEEK, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE WAS AN OPINION IN THE MATERIALS FROM LAST WEEK RELATIVE TO THE THE DIFFERENTIAL OF THE.
OKAY, WE CAN WE CAN BUMP THAT AND DIRECT. OKAY.
I'M JUST CURIOUS. WELL THANK YOU. THAT'S FINE UP TO THAT POINT REAL QUICK EVEN EVEN AFTER THE FACT THOUGH, IF SOMETHING COMES UP THAT YOU'RE REVIEWING THAT WE MIGHT NOT EVEN SEE, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SOMEHOW HAVE ACCESS TO JUST FOR OUR KNOWLEDGE, OR AT LEAST FOR ME.
SO I'M SAYING BEYOND BEYOND THIS, THIS OUR PURVIEW HERE.
WHEN WE WHEN HE DOES EVALUATIONS, IT'D BE GREAT IF IT WAS JUST OUT THERE FOR US TO GO REFERENCE.
AND DOES RODDY, WHEN SHE COMPILED ALL OF THE USE, DID SHE PUT MR. FORD'S OPINIONS IN THERE WITH THEM? THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE IN ONE CONSOLIDATED LOCATION? I DON'T KNOW IF THERE THERE'S A RESOURCE FOLDER IN ON BOARD, SO IF THIS ISN'T ALREADY IN THERE, I THINK WE COULD DEFINITELY INCLUDE THAT FOR FUTURE, YOU KNOW, FOR FUTURE CONSOLIDATION OF THIS FOR SURE.
BUT IT WAS SEPARATE FROM THE STAFF REPORT. IT WAS ANOTHER DOCUMENT.
YEAH. USUALLY THERE'S A CONSULTANT REVIEW IS HOW IT'S LINKED IN THIS PARTICULAR ONE.
SO YES, WE'LL DO A BETTER JOB IT'S REALLY JUST TWO QUICK QUESTIONS, MR. FORD. SO IS IT IS IT FAIR TO ASSUME AND I GUESS FROM YOUR ANALYSIS STANDPOINT, THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUTABLE PRODUCT MAKERS ON THE MARKET FOR A VARIETY OF PRODUCTS. WHEN THEY RELEASE A NEW PRODUCT. DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE YOUR REVIEW FROM THOSE WELL-SETTLED COMPANIES COMPARED TO NEW COMPANIES BRINGING SOMETHING OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME? AND YOUR YOUR MICROPHONE IS OFF AGAIN. IF IT'S A COMPANY I'M FAMILIAR WITH, YOU KNOW, THE THE BIG BOYS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. I WILL REACH OUT TO THEIR MANUFACTURERS REPS BECAUSE I PROBABLY HAVE MORE DIRECT, YOU KNOW, HAVE WORKED WITH THEM BEFORE. IF IT'S A NEWER PRODUCT.
THE FIRST THING I ALWAYS LOOK AT ARE THE TESTING STANDARDS.
[02:30:04]
ON THE MARKET FOR 5 OR 6 YEARS. SO I DO I DO TRY TO BE FAIR AND, YOU KNOW, GIVING THE NEW PRODUCT AN EVALUATION AGAINST SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN OUT ON THE MARKET LONGER. SO, YEAH, I, YOU KNOW, I TRY NOT TO LET THE NAME OF THE PRODUCT TAINT MY OR, YOU KNOW, GUIDE MY RECOMMENDATION.DO YOU FIND THAT THERE'S DIFFERENT. I KNOW THAT WHAT IS IT? ASTM AND THERE'S MULTIPLE DIFFERENT TESTING STANDARDS THAT FOR ALL THESE PRODUCTS.
BUT IF HAVE YOU FOUND THAT THE LIKE A NEW PRODUCT BY A NEW MANUFACTURER, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE TRUE LONGEVITY OF THAT IF IT HASN'T BEEN USED AND TESTED FOR MULTIPLE YEARS? WELL, THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING EARLIER THAT TIME IS GOING TO BE THE REAL JUDGE, RIGHT? AND THE WAY THEY TEST SOME OF THESE PRODUCTS, SAY, FOR UV RESISTANCE OR FADING OR WHAT THEY CALL FADING AND CHALKING ON COLORS AND FINISHES IS THEY WILL RUN THROUGH MECHANICALLY, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL SET UP A TEST WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST BLASTING IT FOR, YOU KNOW, HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS TRYING TO SIMULATE.
THEY DO SIMULATIONS OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, SAME THING THEY DO IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY, RIGHT.
HOW DO THEY TEST TIRES AND WARRANT THEM FOR 35,000 MILES? THEY RUN THEM THROUGH THEIR PACES. SO THEY DO THAT SAME TYPE OF TESTING.
AND SO WE HAVE TO RELY ON THAT. SO I'M LOOKING AT WHAT TEST STANDARDS ARE THEY REALLY USING.
OKAY. YEAH. APPRECIATE IT. THANKS. YEAH. GOOD.
MR. ALEXANDER. JUST TWO QUESTIONS. ONE'S A COMMENT MARK YOU YOU ASKED HOW MUCH INPUT DO WE WANT FROM YOU? I THINK WE WANT YOUR OPINION ON ON ALL OF THESE ISSUES.
I THINK WE WOULD ALL BENEFIT FROM YOUR OPINION.
AND SO PLEASE DO THAT. THE SECOND QUESTION YOU MENTIONED THE MATERIALS DETAILING INSTALLATION, INSTALLATION. WE CAN'T CONTROL DETAILING. DO YOU GET ENOUGH INFORMATION IN IN THE DOCUMENTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE FINISHED CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS? SO LIKE THE APPLICATION FOR THE AUTO DEALERSHIP WAS JUST SORT OF ONE WALL SECTION ABOUT HOW THEY MIGHT, MIGHT FASTEN IT. DO YOU GET ENOUGH INFORMATION TO EVALUATE THE DETAILING.
SO THAT'S THAT'S A GREAT I WAS GOING TO ACTUALLY BRING THAT UP.
SO IT'S A GREAT SEGUE TO MY POINT I WANTED TO MAKE IS ON THAT APPLICATION, A LOT OF TIMES WHAT I'M IF AND I'M BECOMING MORE. DILIGENT ABOUT THIS IS WHEN WE IF SOMETHING'S PRESENTED TO ME, I'LL ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF FOR THEM TO ASK THE APPLICANT. I'LL SAY AGAIN ON THE BIG RED THING.
HOW IS THIS MEETING THE GROUND? THE RENDERING SHOWS IT ABUTTING THE SOFFIT, BUT SHOWS NO CONNECTION.
HOW IS THAT BEING DETAILED? AND TO ME, I'M TRYING TO LEAD STAFF TO ASK THE APPLICANT FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ON THAT SO THAT YOU CAN REALLY, YOU KNOW, JUDGE AGAIN. IS IT BEING USED APPROPRIATELY? SO THE ANSWER IS NO BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY'RE TYPICALLY VERY, YOU KNOW, CONCEPTUAL DRAWINGS.
AND THAT'S NO FAULT OF THE APPLICANT. THEY'RE JUST WHERE THEY'RE AT IN THEIR PROCESS.
BUT I IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT, I'VE BEEN ASKING STAFF OR I'LL, YOU KNOW, EMAIL WHOEVER'S, YOU KNOW, ASKED ME TO LOOK AT THIS OR I'LL SEND BACK IF YOU NOTICE THAT ONE.
THE THE THAT MEMO WAS ACTUALLY REVISED. I WROTE IT I THINK READY.
AND STAFF, YOU KNOW, SAID, HEY, CAN YOU ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT X, Y AND Z? SO I MODIFIED IT, BUT IT WAS ALL KIND OF A DIALOG BACK WITH THEM SAYING, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH HERE FOR THE REALLY PROVIDE AN OPINION IF THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE USE OF IT. AND WE GOT, YOU KNOW, SOME A VAGUE ANSWER BACK FROM THE APPLICANT.
WELL, WE'RE GOING TO PUT A SCUTCHEON OVER IT LIKE, WELL, WHAT'S THE ESCUTCHEON LOOK LIKE? HOW FAR ABOVE GRADE IS IT? SO I ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS BACK AND HOPEFULLY TRYING TO GUIDE STAFF TO ASK THE QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE DIRECT CONVERSATIONS WITH THE APPLICANT.
SO IF YOUR REPORT SAYS THERE'S NOT ADEQUATE INFORMATION TO EVALUATE THIS, OR THERE'S MORE INFORMATION NEEDED TO EVALUATE THIS, CAN WE MAKE THAT A CONDITION OF HOW WE REVIEW THE PROJECT.
AGAIN, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO JUST LOOK AT THE PRODUCTS.
[02:35:02]
AND, YOU KNOW, I'M STARTING TO BROADEN TO LOOK AT MORE HOLISTICALLY.BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO OVERSTEP MY BOUNDS. YOU KNOW, I JUST SAID, HEY, THIS IS NEW PRODUCT. WHAT WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT IT? YOU KNOW, IS THIS IS, YOU KNOW, WILL THIS HOLD UP? AND SO I THINK THE ASK OF ME IS GETTING A LITTLE BROADER, WHICH I'M FINE WITH. ARCHITECTS HAVE LOTS OF OPINIONS, SO BUT THERE'S NOT OFTEN ENOUGH INFORMATION TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY GET INTO THAT GRANULAR OF A OF A OF A REVIEW.
MR. WAY I THIS MAY BE A VERY UNFAIR QUESTION, BUT OUR PACKETS ALWAYS CONTAIN RENDERINGS OF THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE PIECES OF BUILDINGS THAT WE'RE APPROVING.
AND AND THOSE RENDERINGS ARE WHAT WE ARE JUDGING A LOT OF WHAT WE THINK IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
DO YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THOSE RENDERINGS AND HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT.
YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S CLOSE OR THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
DO YOU, DO YOU DO YOU PUT THAT INTO YOUR EVALUATION OF ARE THEY DEPICTING THIS MATERIAL CORRECTLY AND PRESENTING IT TO THE THE COMMISSION? I HAVE YES. AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY ON AGAIN BACK TO THAT OTHER THE CAR DEALERSHIP.
OKAY. I ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS BECAUSE IT JUST LOOKED TO MAKE BELIEVE.
IN TERMS OF HOW THINGS WERE BEING CONNECTED TO EACH OTHER, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU AREN'T YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE A PIECE OF STEEL AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S HOLDING IT UP AND HOW WHAT'S CONNECTED TO THE GROUND.
SO I ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRETTY PICTURES BECAUSE LIKE, THAT ONE IMAGE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE, I SWEAR THE RENDERING LOOKED SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE OUTCOME, YOU KNOW. AND THAT SWAYED ME, RIGHT? TO THINK, OH, THIS THIS IS GOING TO BE OKAY.
WELL, BUT IT'S KIND OF FICTITIOUS. THESE RENDERINGS ARE RENDERINGS, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT REAL. AND AGAIN, USING A VERY RECENT THE CAR DEALERSHIP, THE FIRST OPTION ILLUSTRATES PAINTING THE EXISTING BRICK VENEER TO ALL EXISTING EXTERIOR WALLS. THE SECOND ONE IS LIMITED TO THE SHOWROOM.
IT IS MY OPINION THAT THE FIRST OPTION OF PAINTING THE ENTIRETY OF THE EXTERIOR BRICK PRESENTS A MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH TO THE ALTERATIONS, WHILE THE SECOND OPTION SIMPLY APPEARS TO BE INCOMPLETE.
SO THAT WAS FROM LAST WEEK. AND IT'S CONTEXTUAL, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THIS CASE TALKING ABOUT A NEW MATERIAL.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT APPLICATION OF PAINT TO AN EXISTING MATERIAL, BUT CONTEXT MATTERS.
SO I THINK MR. WEIL WILL AGREE WITH ME. BUT WE LIKE THE CONTEXT.
PRINTERS PRINT THINGS DIFFERENTLY. THE COLOR MAY NOT BE ACCURATE.
SO WE'RE HAVING REAL LIFE, YOU KNOW, IMAGERY OF THE MATERIAL IN A IN THE CONTEXT OF A WHOLE BUILDING, NOT JUST A SNIPPET THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE CONTEXT.
WE'RE WE'RE BLURRING THE LINES OF CONCEPT AND CONSTRUCTION.
RIGHT. AND I THINK WE AND I ALWAYS DEFER TO YEAH, IT LOOKS GOOD IN A RENDERING.
BUT THEN HOW IT WAS INSTALLED, THE INSTALLATION DETAILS, WHICH AREN'T, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, ARE IN OUR PURVIEW TO SAY HOW IT'S GOING TO BE DETAILED OUT.
THAT'S THAT I THINK THAT'S THAT GAP THAT WE'RE MAYBE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT.
YEAH. HOW DO WE BRIDGE THE GAP? WE THINK IT LOOKS GREAT IN A RENDERING, BUT IT'S A CONCEPT RENDERING THAT IT GOES TO BEYOND US FOR THE FOR THE DETAILED INSTALLATION THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT. YEAH.
YOU KNOW YOU CAN TAKE A BAD DESIGN AND DO A FLY THROUGH.
AND YOU HAVE HAD CLIENTS. THEY JUST OOH. THAT'S SO WONDERFUL HOW YOU COULD DO THAT.
BUT THEY'RE REALLY NOT LOOKING AT WHAT THE DESIGN IS.
THEY'RE MORE ENAMORED WITH THE TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU'RE SHOWING THEM THAN THE ACTUAL BUILDING DESIGN.
AND THAT'S A THAT'S A TRAP THAT IS EASY TO FALL INTO.
SO BUT ALL RIGHT, WE'LL WE'LL MISS HARKER. JUST QUICKLY, FIRST OF ALL, THE DATABASE.
THANK YOU. STAFF. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR TIME PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER.
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE WAY ABOVE WHAT WE'RE ALL NEEDING, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
I KEEP GOING TO INSTALLATION AND FIRST NIGHT.
FIRST TIME I'VE HEARD OF, LIKE, THERE'S A CERTIFIED INSULATOR.
GREAT. SO DO PEOPLE EVER JUST WAIT UNTIL THAT PERSON IS AVAILABLE? THE PROJECTS ON HOLD. IS THAT WHERE STAFF CAN BECOME INVOLVED? THAT'S MONEY. IT'S BECAUSE IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE JUST THE TIME PERIOD ON HERE.
[02:40:07]
THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG FACTORS OF WHAT HAPPENS IS HOW IT'S INSTALLED.YEAH. YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE MANUFACTURERS LITERATURE OR EVEN THE FOLKS I TALKED TO ON THAT, THE THE I'LL CALL IT THE FAUX BRICK. YOU KNOW, THE SYNTHETIC BRICK IS IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, INSTALLED BY OUR CERTIFIED TECHNICIANS. WELL, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS OR INSTALLED BY, YOU KNOW, APPROVED SUBCONTRACTORS.
SO YOU HAVE AN IDEA OF THAT. SO THAT REALLY IS INCUMBENT TO ME ON THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL WHEN HE WRITES HIS SPECIFICATIONS, HIS PROJECT SPECIFICATIONS, AND WE AND WE DO THAT WHEN, IF THERE'S A, THERE'S ANY VARIETY OF THINGS, IT WILL LIST INSTALLER QUALIFICATIONS. IT'S UNDER THE QUALITY ASSURANCE SECTION OF THE SPECIFICATIONS.
I THINK THAT'S THAT. AND AGAIN, THAT HAS THIS BOARD HAS REALLY NO CONTROL OVER THAT.
I DID HAVE I WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION THOUGH, MR. SHERLOCK, ABOUT THAT MATERIAL AGAIN, THE ONE THAT GOT USED AND ON THE THE BEAUTY SALON.
DO YOU ALL STILL REQUIRE PHYSICAL MATERIALS IN YOUR PRESENTATIONS? NO. IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE PRESENTED UP HERE. NO, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED. THEY'RE REQUESTED, BUT NOT REQUIRED.
YES, BECAUSE I REMEMBER YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, I WAS, YOU KNOW, SCHLEPPING UP THE BRICKS AND THE THE ETERNITY SLATE AND, YOU KNOW, AND PRESENTING THAT WITH THE REAL COLORS AND THE REAL HERE FOR THE COMMISSION ARE NOT ALWAYS REMEMBER WE I MEAN, I PRESENTED IN WESTERVILLE A NUMBER OF TIMES WITH, YOU KNOW, REAL SAMPLES WHERE YOU ALL GOT THE, YOU KNOW, TOUCH AND FEEL WHAT THIS STUFF IS. AND WE HAD A MATERIALS BOARD LAST, LAST WEEK.
CORRECT. I REMEMBER DURING COVID THAT WE USED TO HAVE TO COME OVER TO.
I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE IT'S A MAJORITY OF THEM. I SUPPOSE IF IT'S ONE THAT WE'VE NOT USED OR IT'S A DIGITAL VERSION, IT'S A NEWER MATERIAL MAYBE. YEAH, BUT NOT REUSED MATERIALS.
WE DON'T GET A BOARD FOR EVERYONE. YEAH. MY THOUGHT ON THAT, AND I'M SORRY IF I'M AGAIN OVERSTEPPING, IS IF THERE'S SOMETHING NEW. THAT'S WHY I SAY I REACHED OUT.
I KNOW STAFF HAS AS WELL BECAUSE I'LL SAY, HEY, I'VE CALLED THE MANUFACTURER, I'VE ORDERED, YOU KNOW, SAMPLE OF THIS PRODUCT SO I CAN TOUCH AND FEEL IT IS.
THEY'LL SAY, OH, WE'VE ALSO RECEIVED WE HAVE ONE AS WELL BECAUSE I'LL SAY, DO YOU WANT ME TO DROP IT OFF? OR SO I KNOW STAFF IS DOING THAT. YOU KNOW ON, ON SOME OF THESE NEWER PRODUCTS, I MY RECOMMENDATION IS NOT ONLY GETTING A MEMO FROM ME, BUT ACTUALLY SAYING TO THE APPLICANT, WE WANT TO SEE THIS, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO TOUCH AND FEEL IT, AND WE WANT TO KNOW SPECIFICALLY HOW YOU INTEND TO USE IT.
AND AS AN APPLICANT, I WOULD NOT BE OFFENDED BY THOSE TYPE OF QUESTIONS.
YEAH, WE DO THAT WITH NEW MATERIALS. WE DO THAT FOR EXCEPTION MATERIALS.
SO HEY, I THE CODE DOES NOT PERMIT ME TO USE THIS, BUT IT'S VERY STANDARD FOR US TO REQUEST THAT.
EVERY TIME THEY CHANGED WHICH MANUFACTURER AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
MISS HARTER, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY.
MR. CHINNOCK ONE ONE QUICK POINT TO MAKE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A VERY VALID.
SO WE RUN INTO THIS ALL THE TIME, CONSTANTLY WHEN IT COMES TO RENDERINGS.
SO AS A COMMISSION, WE NEED TO START SEEING, EVEN THOUGH IT'S PHOTOREAL AND IT LOOKS GREAT, IT'S STILL A SKETCH. AND I THINK WE FAIL. SOMETIMES WE FAIL TO THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOSH, IT'S REALITY. IT LOOKS SO GREAT. SO I THINK IF WE CAN KIND OF GET THAT IN OUR HEADS THAT IT'S STILL A SKETCH, IT'S STILL A CONCEPT AND WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE APPROVING SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
THE SECOND THING I'LL SAY IS I THINK YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE AND SHAME ON ME FOR MISSING SOME OF THE DOCUMENTATION THAT'S IN THERE, BUT SOME OF THE ATTORNEYS MISSED IT IN THE ROOM, TOO, SO I DON'T FEEL IT WAS BAD. BUT I THINK THAT HOWEVER WE CAN GET THAT INFORMATION.
I MEAN, AGAIN, WE ALL HAVE A LOT GOING ON. THERE'S A LOT OF DOCUMENTS IN THERE.
[02:45:03]
AND AGAIN, I'M GUILTY. AS FOR THIS, BUT HOW WE CAN GET THAT INFORMATION ON THESE APPLICATIONS IN SUCH A WAY? MAYBE WE JUST NEED TO CONSIDER THAT OR I JUST NEED TO PAY MORE ATTENTION.BUT AGAIN, I THINK YOUR OPINION IS VALID. SO I WOULD JUST NOT HOLD BACK.
WELL I APPRECIATE I THINK THE REVISITING THE STORYBOARD, THE MATERIAL BOARD FOR EVERY APPLICATION, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MUCH TURNOVER ON THE BOARD.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT SLIPPED MY MIND, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE VALUABLE.
ALL RIGHT. LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR EITHER STAFF OR MR. FORD? WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. WE TREMENDOUSLY APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
SO THANK YOU FOR CONTINUING TO PARTNER WITH THE CITY OF DUBLIN.
WE LOOK FORWARD TO, WELL, READING THE MEMOS THAT YOU PRODUCE.
ANY FINAL DISCUSSION ITEMS? JUST A HEADS UP ON THIS.
[COMMUNICATIONS]
WE RAN OUT OF TIME HERE, BUT JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU A HEADS UP.ROOFS, ESPECIALLY THE OLDER CEDAR SHAKE ROOFS.
SO WE'LL. YEAH. AND I DO WANT CITY COUNCIL ASKED ME TO PUT A BUG IN YOUR EAR ON WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT NEW MATERIALS, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT REDEVELOPMENT OF NEW MATERIALS.
THE HOW, HOW WE INCORPORATE NEW MATERIALS INTO EXISTING DEVELOPMENTS, WHETHER THAT'S, HEY, WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS ALL CEDAR SHAKE ROOFS.
AND NOW, HEY, CEDAR SHAKE DOESN'T HOLD UP LIKE WE THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO THE NEWER CEDAR SHAKE AREN'T THE 40 YEARS AGO CEDAR SHAKE? SO DO WE PERMIT A NEW MATERIAL, AND IF SO, HOW? AND SO JUST BE THINKING ABOUT THAT. I IMAGINE WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER FIELD TRIP COMING UP IN THE LATE SUMMER OR EARLY FALL, LIKE WE'VE DONE HISTORICALLY. PERHAPS THAT COULD BE ONE OF THE DISCUSSION TOPICS WE REVISIT.
MR. ALEXANDER. CONTACT. MARK. YES, YES. ALL RIGHT.
YES. IF YOU WANT MORE OPINIONS OR I'M MORE THAN HAPPY, LIKE I SAID.
BUT IF IT GETS TOO GRANULAR OR YOU DON'T WANT TO READ ABOUT ASTM NUMBERS, THAT'S FINE TOO.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M TARGETING. I'M HITTING THE WHAT YOU ALL NEED TO MAKE YOUR DECISIONS.
I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL PROBABLY BRING THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC BACK TO THE BOARD ON ONE OF THE VERY NEXT MEETINGS TO TALK ABOUT, HEY, NOW THAT YOU'VE HAD TIME TO KIND OF GO AWAY AND THINK ABOUT THIS, REFLECT ON, PULL SOME OF THE MEMOS, THEN DO WE HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL REQUESTS AND WE'LL ROUTE THAT COMMUNICATION THROUGH STAFF.
OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT IS VERY APPRECIATED.
ANY FINAL COMMENTS? OKAY. MR. WAY. MEETING ADJOURNED.
THANK YOU. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, HAVE A GREAT REST OF YOUR NIGHT.
THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT OF IT, BUT WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.