[00:00:01]
[CALL TO ORDER]
WELCOME TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.YOU CAN JOIN THE MEETING IN PERSON AT 55 55 PERIMETER DRIVE OR ACCESS VIA THE LIVE STREAM ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE.
WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN INCLUDING COMMENTS ON CASES AT THIS TIME.
IF YOU'LL PLEASE STAND AND JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR.
I'LL TURN TIME OVER TO YOU FOR OUR ROLL CALL.
UH, AT THIS TIME I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION
[ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS AND APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
TO ENTER THE, TO ACCEPT THE DOCUMENTS INTO THE RECORD.THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD TO CITY COUNCIL WHEN PLOTTING A PROPERTY AND REZONING ARE UNDER CONSIDERATIONS.
IN SUCH CASES, CITY COUNCIL RECEIVES A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMISSION.
IN OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE CASES, THE COMMISSION HAS THE FINAL DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY, THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION STATE THAT NO NEW AGENDA ITEMS ARE TO BE INTRODUCED AFTER 10:30 PM THE ORDER OF OPERATIONS FOR THIS EVENING, THE APPLICANT WILL FIRST PRESENT THEIR CASE, FOLLOWED BY STAFF ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATION.
THE COMMISSION WILL THEN HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS OF BOTH THE STAFF AND THE APPLICANT FOLLOWING THE QUESTIONS WE WILL HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC.
WHEN YOU COME UP TO THE PODIUM DURING EACH APPLICATION, PLEASE ENSURE THAT THE GREEN LIGHT ON THE MICROPHONE IS ILLUMINATED.
AS YOU SEE ON MY MICROPHONE, WE DO REQUEST THAT YOU KEEP PUBLIC COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES.
AT THIS TIME, ANYONE INTENDING TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON ANY OF THESE CASES THIS EVENING? IF YOU WILL PLEASE STAND, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT YOUR, BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THIS COMMISSION? THANK YOU.
[Consent Agenda]
ELIGIBLE FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA THIS EVENING, AND THAT IS FOR VISTA COMMUNITY CHURCH, AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN.DOES ANYONE FROM THE COMMISSION WISH TO HAVE THIS REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA? SEEING NONE, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.
THANK YOU, MR. WE DO, I HAVE SECOND.
THANK YOU TO THOSE IN ATTENDANCE FOR VISTA CHURCH.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE DIRECT THOSE TO STAFF, BUT WE CERTAINLY WELCOME THE, THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE VISTA CHURCH FOR THE FUTURE.
MOVING ON TO OUR NEXT CASE FOR THIS EVENING.
[Case #24-125CP]
CP TOWNS ON TUNNEL CONS.THIS IS A CONCEPT REVIEW AND FEEDBACK OF A DEVELOPMENT CONSISTING OF 148 SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED UNITS AND ASSOCIATED SITE IMPROVEMENTS.
THE NEARLY 22 ACRE SITE IS ZONED R ONE RES, UH, RESTRICTED SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, AND IS LOCATED SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF TUTTLE CROSSING BOULEVARD AND HEARTH ROAD.
AT THIS TIME, WE INVITE THE APPLICANT TO COME FORWARD TO THE MICROPHONE.
PLEASE ENSURE THAT THE MICROPHONE IS ON, THE GREEN LIGHT IS ILLUMINATED.
AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
MY NAME IS ANDY GOTTESMAN WITH MI HOMES 4 1 3 1 WORTH AVENUE, COLUMBUS, OHIO, 4 3 2 1 9.
WITH ME THIS EVENING IS AARON UNDERHILL, JOSH BARKIN, VICE PRESIDENT OF LAND AT MI HOMES AND MAX BLOCK LAND ANALYST AT MI HOMES.
I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.
LOOK FORWARD TO A PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION ON THE TOWNS AT TUTTLE.
AS YOU MAY RECALL, WE WERE HERE AT THE END OF JUNE TO DISCUSS OUR PLAN AND RECEIVED, UM, SOME VERY PRODUCTIVE FEEDBACK FROM YOU ALL.
FOLLOWING THAT MEETING, WE REALLY ROLLED UP OUR SLEEVES AND GOT TO WORK ON HOW WE COULD INCORPORATE YOUR FEEDBACK INTO OUR PLAN.
WE HAD A COUPLE MEETINGS WITH STAFF, AND THE RESULT OF ALL OF THE HARD WORK OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS IS THE PLAN THAT'S BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING.
WHAT I'D DO, I THOUGHT I'D START WITH THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES AND REALLY WHAT I SAW
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AS KIND OF LISTENING, UH, TO THE FEEDBACK THAT WE RECEIVED AND HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THOSE.SO THE FIRST ONE, AND YOU CAN HOLD YOUR APPLAUSE TILL THE END, IS THERE'S NO VISIBLE GARAGES FROM THE STREET AS YOU DRIVE THROUGH THE SITE.
SO WE KNEW THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS, WE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR, AND SO AS YOU, THE PLAN'S HARD TO CONCEPTUALIZE.
BUT WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE MAIN PURPLE ROAD, DOWN THE MIDDLE, FOR EXAMPLE, ALL OF THOSE ARE THE NICE BEAUTIFUL FRONT FACADES OF THE HIGH QUALITY ARCHITECTURE THAT WILL BE SEEN.
UH, THE SECOND ONE IS, AS WE'VE CHANGED THE TYPE OF UNIT THAN WHAT WE HAD BEFORE, IT RESULTED IN AN OPEN SPACE INCREASE.
WENT FROM 45% TO NOW 66% OF THE SITE IS OPEN SPACE, AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE PRESERVATION OF THE TREE STAND IN THE NATURAL FEATURES OF THE SITE CONTINUES TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO BOTH US AND TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.
OUR LAST CONVERSATION TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE DISJOINTED GREEN SPACES.
AND SO WHAT WE'VE DONE ON THIS NEW PLAN IS CENTRALIZED IT TO THAT ONE ELEMENT AT THE NORTHEAST NORTHWEST INTERSECTION OF THE TWO STREETS THERE, AND REALLY STARTED TO COMBINE IT TO MAKE IT SOMETHING OF SCALE OPPOSED TO HAVING 2, 3, 4 SMALLER SPACES.
ADDITIONALLY, WE NOW HAVE THE HOMES FACING THE TREES, AND SO WE'VE NOW GOT THE PATH ALONG THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY AND SOUTHERN BOUNDARY TO REALLY CREATE A CIRCULAR PATH NETWORK THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY AND EVERY SINGLE HOME.
AND YOU CAN SEE THERE'S PATHS ALL OVER THE ENTIRE SITE.
SO WE HEARD YOU LOUD AND CLEAR ON THAT ONE AND HAVE ADDED TONS OF PATH TO MAKE SURE THAT PEDESTRIANS ARE ABLE TO GET AROUND.
THE NEXT ONE WAS PARKING THAT WE HAD SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT.
THE PREVIOUS PLAN HAD 38 GUEST PARKING SPOTS THAT WERE REALLY FOCUSED IN THREE DIFFERENT AREAS.
THE NEW PLAN NOW HAS 122 GUEST PARKING SPOTS, BOTH BETWEEN ON STREET AND THOSE, UM, KIND OF OFF STREET HEAD IN AREAS.
AND WHAT WE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR ALSO WAS THAT THE PARKING AREAS WERE TOO FAR AWAY FROM SOME UNITS.
AND SO THE NEW PLAN NOW STARTS TO REALLY SPREAD THEM OUT AND DISPERSE THEM EVENLY.
SO IF YOU PICK ANY BUILDING, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S NOW PARKING WITHIN A VERY CONVENIENT WALK TO IT.
SO WE THINK THAT'S A VERY, UH, REASONABLE IMPROVEMENT THAT WE'VE MADE THERE.
AND NOW, MAYBE THE BIGGEST OF ALL IS THAT ALL OF THE ROADS HAVE BEEN TRANSITIONED FROM PRIVATE STREETS PREVIOUSLY TO ALL BEING PUBLIC STREETS.
UH, THE PUBLIC STREETS REALLY START TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS MATCH THE COMMUNITY PLANS FOR FUTURE THOROUGHFARE NETWORK.
AND ZACH, IF YOU WANNA FLIP TO SLIDE TWO, YOU CAN START TO SEE THE PICTURE THAT THIS IS ONE PIECE OF A MUCH BIGGER REGIONAL PUZZLE, BUT US NOW BEING ON PUBLIC STREETS RATHER THAN US BLOCKING FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, IS THAT IT'S ABLE TO UNLOCK FUTURE DEVELOPMENT IN MAJOR CONNECTIONS AND WE LEVERAGE THE STREET TYPOLOGIES THAT ARE DEMONSTRATED IN THE NEWLY APPROVED COMMUNITY PLAN.
SO ON THE SITE PLAN, IF YOU WANNA GO BACK, ZACH, YOU CAN THEN SEE THE DIFFERENT TYPOLOGIES THAT WE LEVERAGED STRAIGHT FROM THE PLAN.
UH, ALL IN ALL THE, THE, THE COMMUNITY PLAN CALLS FOR THIS AREA TO BE, UH, SOMEWHERE BETWEEN SIX AND 12 UNITS PER ACRE.
AND WE ARE COMING IN AT 6.8 UNITS PER ACRE.
AND IT'S PRETTY UNCOMMON FOR A DEVELOPER TO BE AT THE BOTTOM END OF A DENSITY SCALE WHEN THEY'RE PERMITTED UP TO A HIGHER NUMBER.
SO WE THINK THAT THAT 6.8 NUMBER IS REASONABLE GIVEN HOW WE HAVE SUCH A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF OPEN SPACE AND THE PRESERVATION OF THE STREAM CORRIDOR PROTECTION ZONE.
I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS OF OLD DUBLIN WOODS TO THE SOUTH AND HEARD THEM LOUD AND CLEAR AS IT RELATES TO THEIR CONCERNS OF THE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS IN THE AREA.
AND I DON'T WANNA SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S AS MUCH ABOUT THE LAND USE.
IT'S MORE ABOUT THAT THEY HAVE CURRENT CONDITIONS OF TRAFFIC THAT THEY ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH.
AND THE WHERE I LEFT IT WITH THEM, AND WHERE I'LL LEAVE IT WITH YOU IS THAT WE HAVEN'T CONDUCTED A TRAFFIC STUDY, BUT IF WE GET POSITIVE FEEDBACK FROM YOU THIS EVENING, THAT WILL BE PART OF OUR NEXT STEP AS WE MOVE INTO THE PRELIMINARY PLAN.
AND WE'LL HAVE THE DATA BE ABLE TO REALLY HELP INFORM US ON WHAT IMPROVEMENTS MAY BE NECESSARY FOR THIS AREA TO RELIEVE SOME OF THE TRAFFIC ISSUES.
UM, IN CONCLUSION, MY TALKING POINTS AS IT RELATES TO THE NEED FOR THIS PRODUCT IN THE CITY REMAINS CONSISTENT.
THE HOUSING STUDY OVER THE FIVE YEAR STUDY PERIOD 0.2%, TWO TENTHS OF A PERCENT OF THE HOUSES TRANSACTED OR TOWN HOMES.
AND SO THE STUDY VERY CLEARLY CALLS FOR A NEED FOR HOUSING, WE BELIEVE.
ZACH, IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE SLIDE THREE AND FOUR, THE EXTERIORS THAT WE'VE DEVELOPED ARE VERY ATTRACTIVE LOOKING HOUSING THAT ARE ARCHITECTURALLY, UH, CREATIVE WITH THE OFFSETS THAT THEY HAVE IN THE OTHER ELEMENTS, THE BRICK, AND THAT, UH, LOOK FORWARD TO A PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION THIS EVENING AND HEARING FROM EACH OF YOU ON HOW WE COULD HAVE A PATH FORWARD TOWARDS A POSITIVE PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL.
[00:10:01]
YOU, MR. GOTTMAN.WE'LL TURN SOME TIME OVER TO YOU FOR THE STAFF PRESENTATION.
SO THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT THIS APPLICATION HAS BEEN BEFORE THE COMMISSION.
UH, THE FIRST WAS BACK IN JUNE FOR AN INFORMAL REVIEW.
BUT THIS CONCEPT PLAN, UM, IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
THE MATERIAL AND, AND HOW IT'S REVIEWED IS, IS GENERALLY PRETTY SIMILAR, UM, AS WE'RE JUST LOOKING TO GAIN FEEDBACK AND GUIDANCE FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT SO THAT THE APPLICANT CAN DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO PURSUE THE PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND REZONING AS THEIR NEXT STEP.
UH, SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT THE GENERAL, UM, CONDITIONS OF THIS, THIS PROPOSAL, LOOKING AT THE GENERAL, UH, LAND USE AND DENSITIES, HOW THE SITE LAYS OUT WHERE OPEN SPACES ARE LOCATED, LOCATION OF PUBLIC STREETS, AND THEN ALSO JUST HOW THIS INTEGRATES WITH THE SURROUNDING AREAS, HOW IT ACCOMMODATES THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
UH, SO THIS SITE IS, UH, A LITTLE UNDER 2 21 0.8 ACRES IN SIZE AND CURRENTLY ZONED R ONE.
AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE LANDMARKS AROUND THIS WITH THE OLD DUBLIN WOODS LOCATED SOUTH OF THIS PROPERTY, UM, A LITTLE FURTHER SOUTH 'CAUSE THERE IS A PROPERTY BETWEEN IT.
UH, THIS DOES HAVE ACCESS OR DOES IT DOES HAVE FRONTAGE ON BOTH TUTTLE CROSSING AND HEARTH ROAD WITH HEARTH ROAD BEING THE PRIMARY, UH, FRONTAGE FOR THIS PROPERTY.
AND HERE YOU CAN SEE WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE, UH, THE PROPERTY AS FROM HEARTH ROAD, UH, AS THERE IS A LOT OF DENSE VEGETATION ALONG THE PERIMETER OF THE SITE.
BUT THERE IS ALSO A STREAM CORRIDOR, AND I'LL GO BACK, UH, STREAM CORRIDOR THAT'S PROTECTED BY A LOT OF DENSE VEGETATION THAT RUNS TO THE NORTHERN HALF OF THIS SITE, WHICH IS BEING PRESERVED, UH, WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT.
SO THIS IS JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU CAN, UH, AND CANNOT SEE CURRENTLY TODAY.
SO THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN IS A PART OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN THAT IS, UH, IT PROVIDES LAND USE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THE CITY.
UM, EACH, THERE ARE ABOUT 16 DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, AND THIS SITE CURRENTLY IS LISTED AS MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, THIS IS A VERY GENERAL, UM, OVERLAY FOR THIS SITE WHERE IT IS INTENDED FOR NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES LOCATED NEAR EXISTING AND FUTURE RESIDENTIAL.
UH, THIS TYPICALLY IS LOOKING AT COMMERCIAL USES WITH SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL AND MULTIFAMILY AS SUPPORTING USES.
HOWEVER, UH, THE SPECIAL AREA PLAN FOR THE SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN PROVIDES MORE OF A SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS AREA, UH, WHICH IS CALLING FOR MORE RESIDENTIAL SPECIFIC TO THIS SITE.
UM, SO THIS IS A SCHEMATIC THAT THE CITY, UH, HAS APPROVED AS PART OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
UH, THIS IS NOT TO SAY THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT'S GOING TO DEVELOP, UH, BUT IT'S TO GIVE A VISUAL OF OF HOW THE CITY COULD SEE THIS, UH, DEVELOPING IN THE FUTURE.
SO SOME OF THE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE SITE INCLUDE PRESERVING THAT STAND OF TREES TO THE NORTH AND SOUTH AND ALONG THE PERIMETER OF THE SITE, UH, INTEGRATING THE TREE STAND IN THE STREAM AS A PRIMARY, PRIMARY OPEN SPACE FEATURE FOR ANY DEVELOPMENT HERE.
UH, BUT ALSO PROVIDING CONNECTIONS OF PUBLIC STREETS THAT CAN ACCESS THE PROPERTIES TO THE SOUTH AND TO THE WEST.
UH, YOU'RE SEEING THAT IT DOES SHOW ACCESS OFF TO THE ROUNDABOUT ON HEARTH ROAD, HOWEVER, THIS PROPERTY THAT'S BEING BROUGHT FORWARD TONIGHT, UH, DOES NOT HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO THAT.
SO JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS AND HOW IT, UH, INTERACTS WITH HER THROAT.
I DID WANNA MENTION AS WELL, UH, AND I KNOW ANDY SPOKE TO THIS IN TERMS OF THE, UH, DENSITY, BUT WITH THE UPDATED COMMUNITY PLAN, WE DID UPDATE HOW, UH, DENSITY IS LOOKED AT WITHIN THE SOUTHWEST AREA.
AND WE DID IT BASED ON A COLOR SCHEME.
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BRIGHTER YELLOWS, THOSE ARE INTENDED TO BE IN THAT ONE TO THREE UNITS PER ACRE RANGE, AND THEN THE DARKER ORANGES CAN GET UP TO 12 ACRES.
SO FOR THIS SITE SPECIFICALLY, IT'S MEANT TO TRANSITION FROM TUTTLE CROSSING.
SO YOU'RE SEEING IT AS THAT THIRD COLOR DOWN, UP IN THE TOP RIGHT.
UH, SO IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, BUT IS LEANING TOWARDS A LITTLE BIT MORE DENSE.
AND THEN THE FURTHER SOUTH YOU GO CLOSER TO THE EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU'RE GETTING TO THAT ONE TO THREE UNITS PER ACRE.
SO I JUST WANTED TO CALL THAT OUT.
UH, AS AN UPDATE WITH THE SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN.
UH, AS STATED BEFORE, THE INFORMAL REVIEW WENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION BACK IN JUNE.
YOU CAN SEE THE SITE LAYOUT THAT WAS PROVIDED AT THAT TIME.
UH, GENERALLY THE COMMISSION WAS NOT SUPPORTIVE OF THE PROPOSED LAYOUT, UH, OR THE UNIT TYPE, WHICH WAS THAT FRONT LOADED, UH, ATTACHED TOWN HOME PRODUCT.
UH, THE APPLICANT WAS ALSO PROPOSING PRIVATE STREETS WAS, WHICH WAS NOT SUPPORTED, UH, AND WAS REALLY RECOMMENDING A PUBLIC STREET NETWORK THAT REPLICATED, UH, THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN, BUT ALSO STATING THAT THE PROPOSED OPEN SPACE FELT DISCONNECTED, UM, AND REALLY NEEDED TO INTEGRATE THE DEVELOPMENT, REALLY NEEDED TO INTEGRATE WITH THE EXISTING NATURAL FEATURES LOCATED ON THE SITE.
SO I WON'T DIVE TOO MUCH INTO THIS, AS ANDY DID A GREAT JOB OF, UH, EXPLAINING THE, THE
[00:15:01]
CHANGES FROM THE PREVIOUS PLAN.BUT I DID WANNA CALL OUT A FEW ITEMS HERE, UM, THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO US, TO US.
AND WE, UH, ALSO CALL THESE OUT IN THE STAFF REPORT.
UH, AGAIN, THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN PROPOSED UNITS FROM THE PREVIOUS PLAN, WHICH HAD 126 TO 148.
PART OF THAT IS DUE TO THE CHANGE IN PRODUCT, UH, AND THE CHANGE IN THE LOCATION, UH, AND LAYOUT OF THE SITE.
AGAIN, THERE'S FUTURE PUBLIC STREETS THAT ARE PROPOSED, UH, AS A SPINE FOR THIS, UH, BOTH NORTH, SOUTH AND EAST AND WEST.
UH, AND THEN THE CHANGE IN HEIGHT FOR THE UNITS HAS WENT FROM TWO STORY TO THREE STORY.
UM, A FEW OTHER IMPORTANT NOTES.
YOU ARE SEEING SOME PUBLIC SERVICE STREETS.
THOSE ARE CALLED OUT IN OUR COMMUNITY PLAN AS A NEW STREET TYPE.
UM, HOWEVER, THE TYPICAL CHARACTER FOR THOSE IS INTENDED TO BE ABOUT 16 FEET WIDE OF PAVEMENT, AND THEY ARE SHOWING 26 FEET.
UM, THIS IS LARGELY BECAUSE THE, THE UNITS THAT ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO THE SERVICE STREET, UH, THAT WIDTH WAS PROVIDED TO ACCOMMODATE FIRE ACCESS TO THOSE PROPERTIES AS THEY DON'T HAVE A PUBLIC, A TRUE PUBLIC STREET, UH, AS THE ACCESS TO THOSE SITES.
SO, UM, THAT'S WHY THAT WAS PROVIDED.
HOWEVER, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT AS STAFF, WE HAVEN'T HAD A FULL OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THIS, AND WE WOULD NEED TO CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH THAT AS TO SEE IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS, UH, APPROPRIATE FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.
SO I JUST WANTED TO CALL THAT OUT AS SOMETHING THAT WOULD NEED TO CONTINUE TO BE WORKED ON WITH, UH, THE TRANSPORTATION MOBILITY STAFF AND THEN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND PLANNING STAFF.
UH, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BE DISCUSSED.
AND THEN, UH, BECAUSE THIS IS SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED, THE NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN GUIDELINES WOULD BE APPLICABLE HERE.
SO, UH, A BETTER ASSESSMENT OF HOW THIS PROJECT WOULD ALIGN WITH THOSE PRINCIPLES AND, AND ALIGN WITH, ALIGN WITH THOSE GUIDELINES, UH, WOULD BE PROVIDED WITH ANY UPCOMING STEPS.
UH, SO WITH THAT, THERE ARE FOUR QUESTIONS TONIGHT.
UH, THIS WOULD BE A REZONING APPLICATION SHOULD IT MOVE FORWARD.
SO THE FIRST IS ADDRESSING THE REZONING OF THE PROPERTY, UH, TO PERMIT PROPOSED ATTACHED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
THE SECOND IS AROUND THE SITE LAYOUT.
THE THIRD IS AROUND OPEN SPACE, AND THEN THE FOURTH AROUND THE, UH, ARCHITECTURE AND MASSING OF THE ATTACHED TOWN HOMES.
WITH THAT, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU, MR. HEEL, WE'LL HANDLE QUESTIONS FOR BOTH STAFF AND THE APPLICANT TOGETHER, LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION FOR THOSE.
MR. GARVIN, DO YOU WANNA START US OFF WITH ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR STAFF OR THE APPLICANT? SURE.
I AM CURIOUS TO HEAR MORE FROM THE COMMISSION MEMBERS THAT HAVE SEEN THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL GO TO THIS, BUT ONE THING I DID NOTICE, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE THE, THE STREAM IS STILL KIND OF NOT INCLUDED IN THIS PLAN HERE.
I KNOW THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS RECOMMENDED.
WAS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION INTO THAT OR IS IT TOO FAR FROM THE PROPOSED AREA? WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE LIMITATION? SO OUR, WE THINK THAT WE'VE STARTED TO ACTIVATE IT BY ADDING THAT PATH ALONG THE TREE ROW, SINCE WE HAVEN'T DONE THE TREE STUDY YET, UNDERSTANDING WHERE AND HOW THAT'S GONNA BE INTEGRATED, IT'S DIFFICULT AT THIS STAGE.
AND THEN ALSO INCORPORATING THE PUBLIC PARK AT THAT SOUTH OR NORTHWEST CORNER OF THAT INTERSECTION.
THEN WE SEE AS KIND OF THE GATEWAY INTO THAT AS IT RELATES TO PROGRAMMING OF THAT.
IN OUR LAST MEETING, WE KIND OF WOBBLED ON HOW THAT WOULD LOOK AND WE'RE OPEN TO THOUGHTS AND FEEDBACK ON, ON HOW YOU SEE THAT.
AND THEN ON THE, UH, NORTH FUTURE STREET IN PARTICULAR, WHAT IS THE, UH, I GUESS WHAT WOULD BE THE TIMELINE ON THAT? WHAT WOULD YOU SEE? SO ONE CLARIFICATION ITEM, ZACH.
WE DO NOT HAVE FRONTAGE ON TUTTLE.
YOUR EXHIBIT WENT A LITTLE BIT TOO FAR NORTH.
SO WE DO NOT HAVE FRONTAGE ON TO TUTTLE.
SO OUR PROPERTY STOPS SHORT OF THAT.
AND SO THIS WOULD BE AN INSTANCE WHERE WE'D BE DEDICATING RIGHT OF AWAY TO THE CITY SO THAT IF THERE WERE TO BE A FUTURE IMPROVEMENT AT THAT, WHERE THERE'S THE FAKE LEFT TURN CURRENTLY ON TUTTLE, IF THERE WAS A REGIONAL IMPROVEMENT AS IT RELATED TO THE FUTURE EXTENSION OF TUTTLE WEST, A ROUNDABOUT AT WILCOX, A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT THERE'D BE RIGHT OF WAY THERE FOR THE CITY TO, TO HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY TO DO THAT.
SO FOR THE TIME BEING, YOU JUST HAVE THE ONE ENTRANCE AND EXIT ON HER? THAT'S CORRECT.
ZACH, AM I CORRECT THAT THIS PROPERTY, IF IT WAS TO MEET THE SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN GUIDELINES WOULD NEED TO BE REZONED ANYWAYS REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TONIGHT? CORRECT.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, IS THERE ANY REASON, BECAUSE THIS IS SORT OF A PRESERVE, WHY PATHS CAN'T BE DIRECTED INTO THAT AREA AND WHY THE EDGE OF THE STREAM CAN'T BE ACTIVATED? IS THERE ANY, UH, DO WE HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS? NOT AT THIS POINT, NO.
UM, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT IF THE COMMISSION WAS REQUESTING THAT, THAT WOULD BE LOOKED AT WITH THE APPLICANT AND STAFF AS TO IF THAT'S POSSIBLE OR NOT.
I ONLY ASK BECAUSE YOU BRING UP IN YOUR REPORT THE DESIRE TO SEE MORE ACTIVATION OF THAT AREA.
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FINE THAT THOSE ARE THE ONLY QUESTIONS I HAD.MS. ROUSH, CAN I HAVE YOU, I THINK ONE ADDITIONAL PIECE TO THAT, LIKE ZACH SAID, WE CAN DEFINITELY, UM, LOOK INTO THAT TREE REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT WOULD BE A, WOULD BE A COMPONENT OF THAT.
WE WOULD JUST WANNA BE MINDFUL OF IF, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHAT WOULD BE DESIRED WITHIN THAT AREA.
UM, ZACH, CAN YOU PUT UP THE PULL UP EITHER THE SPECIAL AREA PLAN, WELL, ACTUALLY I WANT TO TALK TO BOTH OF THEM.
THE SPECIAL AREA PLAN AND THEN THE DRAWING YOU SHOWED WITH THE NEW, SOME NEW ROADS CONNECTIONS.
SO THE SPECIAL AREA PLAN, UM, HAS THE PROPOSED ROUNDABOUT ON HEARTH ROAD, AND THEN IT HAS THIS E EAST WEST CONNECTOR KIND OF RUNNING ACROSS THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
IS THAT BASED THAT ON A OLDER, THINKING ABOUT THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN OR, I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S BASED ON, I MEAN, THOSE ARE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS, SO THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN WOULDN'T SPECIFICALLY CALL THOSE OUT.
I MEAN, THIS IS PRETTY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SHOWED BACK WITH THE 2013 COMMUNITY PLAN.
SO I THINK THERE WAS SOME, SOME UPDATES IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW PRE LOOKED AND, AND WHETHER THINGS MADE SENSE OR NOT.
AND THEN IF YOU, CAN YOU PULL UP THAT, THE PLAN THAT SHOWS THE, THE SITE, BUT THE LARGER CONTEXT, SO THE PUBLIC, THE FUTURE NEIGHBORHOOD BOULEVARD DOES, AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT WOULDN'T SHOW UP ON THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN EITHER, OR DOES THAT, IS THIS FROM THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN? NO, I, THE, THE ROAD CONNECTIONS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE SPECIAL AREA PLAN.
THIS WOULD NOT, IT, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THIS WOULDN'T SHOW UP ON THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN BECAUSE IT'S NOT A COMMUTER ARTERIAL OR, OR HIGHWAY.
SO I, I THINK THE STREET TYPE THAT'S BEING SHOWN IS MORE BASED ON CHARACTER.
UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S THE CORRECT, UH, STREET TYPE THAT WOULD BE PREFERABLE THERE.
YEAH, I, AGAIN, I I FIND IT A LITTLE, A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING BECAUSE ONE PLAN SHOWS THE ROAD IN ONE LOCATION, THIS PLAN SUGGESTS ANOTHER LOCATION AND IT'S KIND OF HARD TO EVALUATE, UM, WHAT IS THE PREFERENCE FOR THAT EAST WEST CONNECTIVITY.
AND, AND THERE'S A LOT MORE WORK TO BE DONE TO DETERMINE THE BEST LOCATIONS FOR THOSE AS WELL.
UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT IT'S THE APPLICANT'S, YOU KNOW, BEST JUDGMENT ABOUT WHERE THESE STREETS SHOULD LAY OUT.
UM, AND THEN SHOWING THAT NORTH CONNECTION, OBVIOUSLY THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE THE CURRENT OPPORTUNITY TO EXTENT TOT CROSSING, BUT THAT'S JUST THAT NORTH SOUTH LOCATION IS JUST TO ANTICIPATE THAT FOR, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE COMMISSION AND MORE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE AUDIENCE.
CAN YOU SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO, WE'VE MENTIONED THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN.
OBVIOUSLY WE'VE MENTIONED THE SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN, BUT CAN YOU TALK TO, UH, THE APPLICABILITY OF THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN? YOU KIND OF SKIRTED AROUND IT A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT DOES THE THOROUGH FAIR PLAN ADDRESS, DOES IT GO DOWN TO THIS LEVEL OF DESIGN AND HOW ANY APPLICATION THIS OR ANOTHER KIND OF FITS INTO THAT THOROUGHFARE PLAN? ABSOLUTELY.
UM, SO THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN IS INTENDED TO ADDRESS A LOT OF OUR MAJOR STREETS IN THE CITY AND HOW DO WE DISTRIBUTE TRAFFIC, DISTRIBUTE, UM, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
UH, SO THAT SPEAKS A LOT TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, WHAT SECTIONS OF, WE'LL SAY TUTTLE CROSSING NEEDS TO BE FOUR LANE, WHAT NEEDS TO BE A WIDER, UH, WIDTH TO ACCOMMODATE MORE TRAFFIC THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
SO THAT'S WHAT IT'S REALLY INTENDED TO DO, IS JUST ADDRESS THOSE HIGH TRAFFICKED AREAS.
UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS ARE THOSE THAT, AGAIN, ARE NOT TYPICALLY TAKING THE TYPE OF VOLUME THAT YOU WOULD SEE ON A MEREFIELD, UH, OR TUTTLE CROSSING.
THEY'RE DEFINITELY IMPORTANT, BUT THOSE ARE NOT QUITE THINGS THAT ARE ADDRESSED WITH THE, UH, THOROUGHFARE PLAN.
SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, FLEXIBILITY ON WHERE THOSE CAN BE LOCATED.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS STILL ADDRESSED WITH ANY REZONING VIA TRAFFIC STUDY.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERY APPLICANT, WHETHER IT'S MI DOING THIS PROJECT OR SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CITY, UH, THAT WOULD BE DETERMINED WITH THAT TRAFFIC STUDY.
AND, AND THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING BECAUSE THE THOROUGH FAIR PLAN DOESN'T ACTUALLY TALK TO ANY OF THOSE STREETS.
AND SO IT'S GETTING DOWN TO THAT SPECIAL AREA PLAN AND OTHER PLANS TO HELP PROVIDE SOME INSIGHT, GUIDANCE, WHATEVER.
BUT LIKE YOU SAID, NOTHING IS NECESSARILY FIXED.
CAN YOU PULL UP THE, THE SPECIAL AREA PLAN AGAIN? SO, UM, IN, IN SPIRIT OF THE COLOR GRADATION OF DENSITY IN THE, IN
[00:25:01]
THE PLAN, IT SHOWS A DARKER ORANGE ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PARCEL.IS THAT INTENDED TO SUGGEST THAT THERE COULD BE HIGHER DENSITY ON THE NORTH SIDE AND LOWER DENSITY ON THE SOUTH SIDE? IS THAT THE INTENTION OF THAT GRAPHIC OR IS IT MEANS SOMETHING ELSE? AND CAN YOU SPEAK TO, UH, ORIGINALLY THIS WAS MIXED USE, SO CAN YOU SPEAK TO DENSITY RELATIVE TO COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL WITH MR. W'S COMMENT? YEAH, SURE.
UM, WITH THE CURRENT COMMUNITY PLAN OR THE SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN, UM, THE RECOMMENDATION IS NOT FOR, IS NOT FOR COMMERCIAL ON THIS PROPERTY OR ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY.
UM, HOW THIS IS SHOWING IS MEANT TO SHOW AS A TRANSITION FROM TUTTLE CROSSING FURTHER SOUTH TO THE SOUTHERN BORDER OF THE CITY, WHICH IS THAT OLD, OLD DUBLIN WOODS.
UM, SO THIS IS INTENDED TO SHOW YOU HAVE THAT NORTH, UM, YOU HAVE THE EAST, WEST STREET, WHICH KIND OF OPERATES AS A DIVIDER.
AND I'M JUST SPEAKING TOWARDS WHAT THE CONCEPT IS CURRENTLY SHOWING AND WHAT THAT VISION WAS.
UH, IT'S DIVIDING THAT OPEN SPACE AND PRESERVING THAT, AND THEN YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DENSE, UM, RESIDENTIAL THAT IS FRONTING THAT STREET.
AND THEN THE FURTHER SOUTH YOU GO, YOU'RE CREATING THAT TRANSITION.
UM, SO THAT'S THE WAY THAT THIS WAS ENVISIONED.
UM, SO THAT YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DENSITY UP ALONG AND CLOSER TO TUTTLE, BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE ALSO PROVIDING THOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, FUTURE CONNECTIONS OUT TO WILCOX AND TUTTLE CROSSING TO HELP ALLEVIATE, UH, SOME OF THAT ADDED DENSITY.
SO, SO THE INTENT, AND THIS, THE AREA PLAN WAS THAT THERE WAS A TRANSITION OF DENSITY IN THIS CASE, RESIDENTIAL, BUT THE COMMUNITY PLAN NOW TALKS ABOUT IT BEING MIXED USE AND RESIDENTIAL IS A SECONDARY USE.
SO THE IDEA OF A MIX OF USES, AGAIN, IS, WAS EVEN CONSIDERED IN TERMS OF DENSITY OF RESIDENTIAL.
BUT, BUT NOW THE COMMUNITY PLAN SPEAKS TO A MUCH BROADER KIND OF IDEA FOR THIS SITE THAT IT IS SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST RESIDENTIAL, THAT IT'S COULD BE A MIX OF USES.
YEAH, AND, AND I WOULD GO, AND JENNY, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, I WOULD GO TO SAY, I THINK THAT DESIGNATION WAS INTENDED TO PROVIDE WHAT THAT CHARACTER WAS INTENDED TO BE.
UM, NOT HAVING, YOU KNOW, FOUR TO FIVE STORY APARTMENT BUILDINGS THAT COULD FIT IN THAT DENSITY.
THAT WAS NEVER THE INTENT WITH THIS, WHEN YOU THINK OF A MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU THINK OF TWO TO THREE STORIES MAX AT A NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE.
SO SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE MORE WALKABLE, UM, SOMETHING THAT IS STILL FITTING INTO THE AREA AND SERVING THAT, THOSE AREAS AROUND IT.
SO, UM, ALTHOUGH THE FUTURE LAND USE DOES CALL FOR THAT MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK THAT'S MORE INTENDED FOR THE CHARACTER.
WHEREAS THE SOUTHWEST AREA REALLY HONES IN ON WHAT ARE THE USES THAT, THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, PREFERABLE HERE, WHAT MAKES SENSE.
AND THEN AGAIN, SHOWING THAT TRANSITION FURTHER SOUTH WITH MOSTLY, I MEAN, IDEALLY RESIDENTIAL FOR THIS AREA.
THANK YOU MR. WE MS. HARDER CONCERNING SIDEWALKS.
DID YOU LEAVE ROOM FOR SIDEWALKS TO BE ON BOTH SIDES OR JUST ON ONE SIDE? AM I SEEING OR IT'S HARD TO SEE.
GO BACK TO THE SITE PLAN DECK.
SO THE, THE SIDEWALKS REALLY WOULD COME OUT YOUR FRONT DOOR AND THEN THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE IN THE DARKER ORANGE COLOR.
SO ON THE ALLEY SIDE WHERE YOU'D COME INTO YOUR DRIVEWAY, THERE'S NO SIDEWAY SIDEWALKS ON THAT, BUT YOU WALK OUTTA YOUR FRONT DOOR AND THEN YOU'RE ON THE SIDEWALKS TO EVERYWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND THEN AROUND THE POND, ARE YOU, YOU WERE, I THINK IN THE LAST NOTES THINKING ABOUT THAT HAVING SOME KIND OF A PATH OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, WE, WE'VE PULLED BACK FROM THAT LAST TIME.
IT WAS REALLY THE FOCAL POINT AS YOU DROVE INTO THE COMMUNITY.
AND THAT WAS REALLY THE REASON FOR ACTIVATING IT.
ON THIS ONE, WE'RE REALLY GONNA FOCUS OUR ENERGY ON THE WESTERN, UH, AMENITY.
HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE PATHS THAT THEN TAKE YOU OUT TO HEARTH ROAD THAT THEN ARE THERE FOR FUTURE, UH, REGIONAL PATHWAY CONNECTIONS, IF THOSE EVER FOLLOW ON THE ADJACENT PARCELS.
AND THEN LIKE THERE'S THAT EXTRA T TRELLIS ON, ON THE EXHIBIT OF WHAT THE HOUSING LOOKS LIKE.
THERE'S LIKE A, A TOP NOTCH EXTRA.
UM, DOES THAT GIVE THAT HEIGHT? I MEAN, HOW MUCH EXTRA HEIGHT DOES THAT GIVE THAT, UM, WHEN YOU PUT THAT THIRD? SO THE INTERESTING THING THAT WE'VE COME TO LEARN AS WE'VE GOTTEN INTO MORE OF THE TOWN HOMES IS THAT TYPICALLY MOST, I DON'T KNOW THE BUILDING CODE HERE SPECIFICALLY 35 FEET WOULD BE YOUR MAXIMUM HEIGHT.
IT'S JUST YOU'RE LIVING IN WHAT TYPICALLY ON A TWO STORY HOUSE WOULD BE YOUR ATTIC SPACE.
AND SO FROM A HEIGHT STANDPOINT, AS IT LITERALLY IS MEASURED, THESE AREN'T ANY HIGHER.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF YOU'RE LIVING IN ALL THREE SPACES OPPOSED TO HAVING AN EMPTY ATTIC.
BUT WHAT I'M LOOKING AT THAT'S NOT AN ATTIC IS IT, AND THEN MISS HARDER, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION FOR THE AUDIENCE AND FOR THE COMMISSION AT CONCEPT PLAN, WE ARE LOOKING KIND OF AT THAT CRAYON SURE.
FOR THE, THE MASSING AND THE STRUCTURE.
WHILE THE FEEDBACK IS GOOD TO PROVIDE DIRECTION TO THE APPLICANT THAT WOULD COME WITH PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW HIGH IT
[00:30:01]
IS AND IF THAT WAS, IF I WAS SEEING IT CORRECTLY ON THAT END.BUT I APPRECIATE THAT FOR SURE.
AND, UM, I THOUGHT I HAD ONE OTHER ONE.
UM, TRELLIS AND THEN, OH, MEETING WITH THE, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND.
UM, WAS THE CITY INVITED TO COME TO THOSE MEETINGS OR HOW, HOW, CAN YOU ELABORATE ON YOUR MEETING WITH THE ABSOLUTELY.
SO THE CITY ACTUALLY HAD AN INDEPENDENT MEETING WITHOUT MI PRESIDENT AT IT.
AND THEN I HAD A SEPARATE MEETING SPECIFIC WITH, UH, FOUR OF THE RESIDENTS.
SO THEY MET WITH THE HOA, UM, LEADERSHIP AND THEN DID YOU MEET WITH HOA LEADERSHIP? YES, I MET WITH SAME PEOPLE.
PEOPLE, BUT MAYBE NOT A WHOLE GROUP, IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? YEAH.
BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND THEY MAY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, BUT THAT THEY HAVE THE VOICE IN THE OVERALL SPIRIT OF THE QUESTIONS FROM THE TEAM.
SO THEY MAY HAVE GOTTEN THAT INFORMATION FROM THEM AND THEN RELAY IT TO YOU.
MR. CHINOOK, UM, I PREFACE THIS WITH, I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA BE FRUSTRATED BY THIS QUESTION BECAUSE WE ASKED YOU TO DO LAST TIME YOU'RE HERE, WE SAID, YOU KNOW,
YOU, YOU'VE DONE THAT HERE, BUT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD WAS OPPOSED TO THE PRIOR PLAN.
UM, AND I KNOW YOU MENTIONED YOU WENT FROM 45% TO 60% GREEN SPACE, BUT THIS PLAN JUST VISUALLY LOOKS LIKE IT'S A LOT LESS GREEN SPACE.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'VE PICKED UP THAT ADDITIONAL GREEN SPACE? 'CAUSE YOU'VE LOST SOME OF THAT, YOU HAD SOME OF THOSE BACKYARDS AND SOME OF THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT? AND THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, THAT THE PREVIOUS PLAN HAD, EACH PERSON HAD A PATIO ON THEIR BACKYARD AND THEY HAD LAND BEHIND THAT, THAT WOULD'VE BEEN PART OF THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL LOT.
WHERE THESE PEOPLE WITH EV ONCE YOU'RE OUTSIDE YOUR FRONT DOOR EFFECTIVELY, YOU'RE NOW ONTO COMMON AREA GREEN SPACE.
OKAY, SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE YOU PICKED UP THAT EXTRA 15% YEP.
IS IN THE FRONT AND THE BIGGER PARK.
SO IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT, IT'S GONNA BE A VERY DIFFERENT FEEL 'CAUSE IT'S MORE FRONT FACING AS OPPOSED TO HAVING THESE BACKYARDS.
AND THE SECOND QUESTION I HAD, SO I APPRECIATE THE, UM, YOUR SHARED STREET, UM, KIND OF THE, THE AXON VIEW, THE GRAPH THERE ABOUT TALKING ABOUT THE ZONES.
UM, IN THIS PLAN, AGAIN, I KNOW WE'RE PROBABLY GETTING A LITTLE MORE DETAIL, BUT TO ME IT HELPS KIND OF DEFINE THAT, UM, SHARED STREET SCAPE A BIT FURTHER.
UH, THAT THAT EIGHT FOOT SECTION THAT YOU'VE GOT IN THE, IN YOUR GRAPH THERE, UM, HAS, HAS THE, HAS THE STREET STREETSCAPE OR LANDSCAPING TREES ALONG THERE.
BUT WHAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE IN THIS PLAN DOESN'T REALLY REFLECT THAT.
DO YOU ENVISION YOU, I'M SORRY, I'M NOT FOLLOWING SO WHICH EXHIBIT YOU'RE LOOKING AT OR WHICH PART OF IT? YEAH, THIS AXON, SO YOU'VE GOT THIS THE EIGHT FOOT SECTION OF JUST, IT'S LIKE A OF THE TREES, THE, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE, AND THE ROAD.
UM, AND THEN IN THE, IN THE, IN THE SITE PLAN WE'RE LOOKING AT IT, THE TREES ARE KIND OF PUSHED BACK MORE.
I MEAN, ARE YOU, I GUESS CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE, I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING IS CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR VISION FOR THAT STREET SCAPE AND THAT THAT SHARED STREET WITH THE ZONES YOU HAVE THERE? AND TO CONFIRM, ARE YOU TALKING SPECIFICALLY ON THE NORTH SOUTH NEIGHBORHOOD BOULEVARD STREET? NO, THE EAST WEST SHARED STREET.
THE EAST WEST, EAST WEST STREET.
THIS DOESN'T HAVE ALL OF THE LANDSCAPING.
THIS IS KIND OF A 30,000 FOOT SURE.
AND SO, I MEAN, WE WOULD FOLLOW WHATEVER THE ORDINANCE IS GONNA BE AS IT RELATES TO THE SPACING OF STREET TREES AND THOSE ITEMS. OKAY.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? THAT YEAH.
SO THAT ZONE THERE THAT'S SHOWN WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE MORE, PROBABLY MORE TREES AND MORE, YEAH.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF EVEN IN THE TYPOLOGY EXAMPLE IF THAT MATCHES WHAT CODE IS.
I THINK IT'S REALLY MORE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE WIDTH HORIZONTALLY AS IT RELATE, NOT AS MUCH ABOUT, AND JENNY COULD AND ZACH COULD CORRECT ME IF THAT IS DRAWN EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD LOOK.
UM, YEAH, I MEAN THOSE, THOSE ARE MORE CHARACTER IMAGES OF, YOU KNOW, HOW WOULD YOU PROPORTION PAVEMENT VERSUS, AND MAKING SURE WE'RE AT PROVIDING ADEQUATE SIDEWALK, UM, OR MULTI-USE PATHS.
SO I MEAN THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR TRAFFIC MOBILITY WOULD HAVE A HEAVY HAND ON HOW THAT WOULD LAY OUT.
UM, AND THAT WOULD BE PROVIDED WITH A PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
'CAUSE THAT AGAIN, THAT TO ME, THAT THAT REALLY DEFINES, I MEAN IT'S A, A VERY LONG STREET AND THAT HELPS DEFINE THAT KIND OF, THAT LOOK AND FEEL AS YOU'RE GOING DOWN AT MAIN BOULEVARD.
SO, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE THOUGHT.
WE THINK THAT STREET WITH HOW THE FRONTAGE OF THOSE BUILDINGS AND THE LANDSCAPING AND THE TYPOLOGY PROVIDED THAT IT SHOULD FEEL LIKE A REALLY COOL STREET STAE WHEN YOU'RE WALKING ON IT.
UH, ONE QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.
UH, WITH THIS NEW PLAN, IS THERE ANY ENTERTAINMENT, DO YOU ENVISION THESE RESIDENTS HAVING ANY OPEN SPACE THAT IS PRIVATE? IS THAT PERMITTED IN DUBLIN
OH, THEY WOULD HAVE A PATIO ON THE, A DECK OFF THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSE ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
UH, SO ELEVATED ABOVE THE DRIVEWAY? CORRECT.
UH, AND THEN I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR STAFF.
DO WE HAVE A PUBLIC STREET THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE SIDEWALKS?
[00:35:03]
WE DO IN A LOT OF THE OLDER AREAS OF THE CITY.I'M SORRY, IN CODE, IS IT ALLOWABLE? OH, I'M SORRY.
TODAY A PUBLIC STREET WITHOUT SIDEWALKS.
I MEAN, IN OUR CO IN OUR, THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND THOSE IMAGES, THEY ALL DO SHOW SIDEWALK CURRENTLY.
UM, SO SPECIFICALLY TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE STREET THAT HAS NO SIDEWALK PROPOSED BY THE APPLICANT.
AND THAT'S, WOULD THAT MEAN PUBLIC STANDARD WITHOUT A SIDEWALK BASED ON HOW THAT, HOW THAT STREET SECTION IS INTENDED? IT'S INTENDED TO BE A MORE OF A SERVICE STREET THAT'S BUILT A PUBLIC STANDARD.
SO THOSE WOULDN'T TYPICALLY HAVE SIDEWALKS.
UM, YEAH, ANOTHER STREET QUESTION.
IT, IT TRULY IS DEPENDENT ON EACH INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPMENT AND THEN WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONCE OUR TRAFFIC AND MOBILITY HAVE A CHANCE TO, TO GET THEIR HANDS ON IT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD LEAN HEAVILY ON THEM.
AND THEN FINAL QUESTION, YOU MADE THE COMMENT ABOUT THE PUBLIC SERVICE STREET AND, UH, FIRE APPARATUS, THAT SORT OF THING.
IF THE PLAN HAD A PUBLIC STREET ON THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH ENDS SIMILAR TO THAT SHARED STREET IN THE MIDDLE, WOULD STAFF BE ACCEPTING OF A NARROWER PUBLIC SERVICE STREET THAT SERVED AS A PUBLIC SERVICE? STREET SANDS SIDEWALKS? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN, WITH, WITH FIRE WITH WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP'S DIRECTION, I MEAN THIS IS BEING SHOWN BASED ON A MEETING THAT THEY HAD WITH, WITH THE APPLICANT HAD WITH THE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE THAT ACCESS.
IF THERE WAS A PUBLIC STREET THAT WAS ABLE TO ACCESS THESE, IT WOULD BE MY, MY BEST GUESS THAT THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO SHRINK TO WHAT THE PLAN CURRENTLY OR WHAT THE COMMUNITY PLAN SHOWS FOR THAT SECTION.
THANK YOU, MR. HEL, ANY FINAL QUESTIONS? MR. ALEXANDER? I WANNA ASK A FOLLOW UP ON JAMIE'S QUESTION BECAUSE, UM, WHEN YOU SAID YOU HAD AN INCREASE, IS IT AN INCREASE IN OPEN SPACE OR AN INCREASE IN GREEN SPACE? I BELIEVE THOSE TO BE THE SAME THING.
SO DID YOU, WELL, DID YOU CALCULATE WHERE THE ROADS ARE AND HOW DID YOU CALCULATE THAT? DOES THAT CALCULATE INTO AN OPEN SPACE NUMBER OR HOW, WHAT, WHAT EXACTLY IS OPEN SPACE? OPEN SPACE IS GONNA BE THE AREA THAT'S NOT ROADS AND NOT THE HOUSE UNITS.
SO IT DOESN'T, OKAY, SO IT'S NO PAVE NO PAVEMENT IN THE CALCULATION? CORRECT.
CAN I JUST FOLLOW MR WAY ON THAT? SO, UM, OF THE, WHAT IS IT, 14.5 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE.
DO YOU HAVE A BREAKDOWN OF WHAT'S THE WOODED PRESERVE AND WHAT'S OTHER OPEN SPACE? I DO NOT HAVE THAT CALCULATION.
AND THESE UNITS ARE SMALLER IN TERMS OF THE BUILDING SIZE AND SO THAT'S THE OTHER DRIVER OF IT IS THAT THEY'RE JUST AS A BUILDING ITSELF IS NOT GONNA TAKE UP AS MUCH AREA AS THE PREVIOUS PLAN.
I, I THINK WE'RE, I THINK THE QUESTIONING THAT WE'RE ALL GETTING AT IS THE WOODS OR THE WOODS AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA TOUCH THOSE AND, AND SURE THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT THAT'S PART OF YOUR OPEN SPACE CALCULATION.
BUT WE'RE LOOKING FOR WHAT WOULD BE USABLE OPEN SPACE BY THE COMMUNITY.
AND YOU DO HAVE THE, THE PARK THAT YOU'RE SHOWING.
I JUST, I DUNNO HOW BIG THAT IS, BUT AS A PERCENTAGE OF, OF THE USABLE SITE AREA, I THINK WE WOULD WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT OF THAT AREA IS USABLE AS RECREATION, OPEN SPACE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN GO OUT AND ENJOY.
THE WOODS ARE, WOULD BE BEAUTIFUL TO WALK THROUGH, BUT PEOPLE ALSO WANT, YOU KNOW, O OPEN, OPEN SPACE TOO, BUT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER? I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER.
THAT'S REALLY WHY WE'VE PROVIDED THE SIDEWALK THAT YOU COULD LITERALLY WALK IT THROUGH OPEN SPACE AROUND THE ENTIRE PERIMETER.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT DENYING THAT THAT'S A WONDERFUL ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY.
I JUST WANNA, I JUST WANNA KNOW WHAT WE, WE WOULD DEFINE AS MORE USABLE OPEN SPACE AS OPPOSED TO ENJOYABLE OPEN SPACE.
UH, SORRY, ONE OTHER QUESTION JUST BY MY NAPKIN MATH HERE IN COUNTING THE, THE SPACES, WE TALKED ABOUT THE INCREASE FROM 38 TO 122 GUEST SPACES.
IS THAT ABOUT I I'M NOT LOOKING FOR, HEY, THAT'S EXACT CALCULATION, BUT IS THAT ABOUT WHAT THAT WAS? MY MATH WAS 74.
THOSE HEAD END SPOTS AND THEN APPROXIMATELY 48 STREET.
UH, THE, ONE OF THE EXHIBITS YOU HAVE MAY HAVE INCORRECT PARKING NUMBER 'CAUSE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ASKED US TO REMOVE PARKING FROM THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THE STREET TO MAKE THEIR, UH, APPARATUS BE ABLE TO MANEUVER BETTER.
ANY FINAL QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION BEFORE WE
[00:40:01]
OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT? THANK YOU.UH, WE DID HAVE PEOPLE SIGN UP, UH, FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, SO I'D LIKE TO INVITE MR. J TAYLOR TO THE MICROPHONE.
IF YOU COULD PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
ADDRESS IS 5 5 7 9 OLD DUBLIN WOODS DRIVE.
AND BY THE WAY, THANKS TO THE GROUP TONIGHT FOR HAVING, GIVING US THE CHANCE TO, UH, TO ONCE AGAIN, UH, DISCUSS AS A NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO, UH, I'M HEAD OF THE LOCAL CIVIC ASSOCIATION, SO I'M REPRESENTING SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS TONIGHT AND I'VE GOT SOME OTHERS HERE I KNOW THAT, THAT ARE HERE WITH US AND THEY'LL SPEAK AS WELL.
SO ONCE AGAIN, THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO YOU.
SO, UH, PER THE LAST MEETING WE HAD WITH YOU, AS ANDY MENTIONED SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, UH, WE HAD A CHANCE TO SIT DOWN WITH THE CITY OF DUBLIN, BOTH ZACH AS WELL AS THE TRAFFIC DEPARTMENT, HAVE SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.
WE ALSO TALKED TO ANDY FROM MI AND HAD SOME, HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.
BASICALLY BOTTOM LINE OUT OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE FELT WHERE THIS WAS GOING WAS, UM, THAT, UH, NEITHER PARTY, NEITHER DUBLIN NOR UH, MI WAS LOOKING TO PURCHASE.
ZACH, IF YOU CAN JUMP TO, TO SLIDE TWO THERE OF THE AERIAL VIEW WAS LOOKING TO PURCHASE ACCESS TO TUTTLE.
ONE MORE THAT SHOWED THE PLAN OF, UH, ZACH THAT SHOWED THE PLAN OF, UM, I'S LAYOUT ON THERE AS WELL WITH THAT AERIAL VIEW, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE.
SO NO ONE WAS LOOKING TO PURCHASE THE, THE BASICALLY THE RANCH HOME, UH, THAT EXISTS THERE OFF OF TUTTLE TO GIVE ACCESS TO BUILD OUT THE ROUNDABOUT THAT YOU HAD ALLUDED TO BEFORE.
WE DID NOT GET A, A WARM AND FUZZY FROM NEITHER DUBLIN NOR AM I, THAT THEY WERE LOOKING TO DO THAT.
UH, WHICH WOULD ALLOW ACCESS TO THE CONDOS FROM THE NORTH TO COME IN OFF OF TUTTLE, BOTH TO EXIT AND ENTER AND ELIMINATE THE ENTRANCE AND EXIT THAT IS BEING PROPOSED HERE, UH, OFF OF HEARTH ROAD.
TO OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT HOMEOWNER, WHO'S AN OLDER GENTLEMAN, UH, IS LOOKING TO SELL TO SELL HIS HOME, HE'S SURPRISED ACTUALLY THAT NO ONE HAS COME TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION WITH HIM, JUST TO ADD THAT, UH, ADD THAT ADDITIONAL DATA POINT.
SO COMING OUT OF THAT, WE FELT BASICALLY THAT THERE IS, WE WE ARE WHERE WE WERE SEVERAL WEEKS AGO.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED POST THE MEETING WITH DUBLIN POST THE MEETING WITH, WITH MI.
SO WITH THE POTENTIAL TO ADD 280 TO FIVE SIX TRAFFIC.
I APOLOGIZE, YOUR MICROPHONE JUST WENT OFF.
IF I COULD HAVE YOU PUSH THE
SO WITH THE POTENTIAL TO ADD 280 TO 560 TRAFFIC MOVEMENTS TO HEARTH ROAD EACH DAY CROSSING, UM, COMING OUTTA THESE CONDOS THERE AND UH, OBVIOUSLY THAT CREATES SERIOUS CONSTRAINTS, BOTTLENECKS AND SAFETY ISSUES TO BE ABLE TO EXIT AND ENTER OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
SAME THING WE SAID BEFORE, WHICH HAS SHOWN UP THERE ON THE RIGHT, WE STILL HAVE THE COMPLETE AND UNSAFE U-TURN AT, DEPENDING ON THE SPEED OF CARS FLYING DOWN THAT ROAD, GOING WESTBOUND CAN BE 30 MILES AN HOUR, CAN BE 55 MILES AN HOUR, UH, AS YOU GO TO MAKE THAT U-TURN TO COME BACK INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
THUS POSING A SAFETY ISSUE FOR US AS NEIGHBORS, AS WELL AS SCHOOL BUSES AND, AND, UH, AND, UH, SAFETY VEHICLES.
UM, WE ALSO CAN'T GO LEFT OR NORTH OUT OF BRITAIN PARKWAY ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AND IN FRONT OF WALMART.
SAME THING WE MENTIONED LAST TIME THAT THAT ISSUE STILL REMAINS.
UM, THERE'S ISSUES WITH THE INTERSECTION CONFIGURATION, TRAFFIC VOLUME, AND THEN TO TOP IT OFF, AS WE MENTIONED LAST TIME, THERE'S TWO CODA BUSES THAT PARK THERE BOTH ACROSS FROM EACH OTHER AND CREATE A BOTTLENECK RIGHT AT THAT INTERSECTION.
TRAFFIC ON TUTTLE BACKING UP, UH, PAST HEARTH, UH, AS THE THING CONTINUED TO GROW WEST, AND I KNOW THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION IN LOOKING AT ZACH'S PLAN THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO TAKE, UH, TUTTLE CROSSING OUT TO, TO AVERY ROAD.
IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN, THAT WOULD CREATE MORE TRAFFIC COMING DOWN, CREATE MORE OF A BOTTLENECK AND BACK UP THE TRAFFIC AT THE JUNCTION THERE AT BRITTON PARKWAY AND TUTTLE CAUSING US MORE CONSTRAINTS AND PROBLEMS TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF OUR, GET OUT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
SCHOOL BUSES UNABLE TO GET OUT.
SAME THING WE MENTIONED BEFORE.
TODAY, THE SCHOOL BUSES HAVE TO GUN IT OR FLOOR IT LITERALLY TO GET OUTTA THERE.
THEN CROSS THREE LANES OF TRAFFIC TO BE ABLE TO TURN LEFT TO GO BACK UP INTO DUBLIN.
I MEAN, BASICALLY WE'RE ON AN ISLAND.
WE HAVE TO CROSS, UH, UH, ANOTHER BODY OF LAND THAT IS NOT DUBLIN TO GET INTO DUBLIN.
THAT IS BASICALLY A MAJOR CHALLENGE AND SAFETY ISSUE FOR US TODAY.
OUR PROPOSED SOLUTION IS FOR MI AND OR DUBLIN TO ACQUIRE THE LAND NEEDED FOR THE CONDO ENTRANCE OR EXIT TO BE OFF OF TUTTLE INSTEAD OF OFF OF HEARTH AS IS BEING PROPOSED HERE, MEANING BUY OUT THE GENTLEMAN THAT'S THERE, BUY OUT HIS LAND.
SAME THING AS ZACH HAS GOT POINTED HERE ON THE, ON THE MAP THAT WOULD ALLOW THAT ROAD TO THEN GO NORTH.
THAT WOULD THEN BECOME THE ENTRANCE AND EXIT TO THESE CONDOS AND NOT GO ONTO HEARTH PAVING THE WAY FOR A ROUNDABOUT TO BE PLACED THERE AT SOME POINT IN TIME AS WELL.
THERE'S A HOTEL, AS YOU NOTICE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
THE HOTEL WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THAT ROUNDABOUT AS WELL.
A LOT OF TRAFFIC COMES OUTTA THERE.
[00:45:01]
THERE'S A HOTEL AND SOME RESTAURANTS AND THINGS IN THERE.OUR RECOMMENDATION IS A NEIGHBORHOOD SHORT OF OUR PROPOSED SOLUTION BEING IMPLEMENTED BY MI AND OR DUBLIN.
WE ARE ASKING AS DUBLIN AS A UNIFIED TAX PAYING NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THESE CONDOS THAT ARE, THAT THESE CONDOS NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE BUILT UNTIL SUCH NEEDED INFRASTRUCTURE CAN BE IMPLEMENTED.
UH, WE HAD NEXT MR. ROBERT A BRUCEY, ROBERT ABRUZZI 5 1 9 7 RED OAK LANE, BELMAN WOODS.
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
UH, SPEAKING WITH MI AND LOOKING OVER THEIR PLAN, I DON'T THINK THE NEIGHBORS REALLY HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROJECT.
HOWEVER, THE TRAFFIC IM IMPLICATIONS ARE SEVERE.
ONE OF THE WORST THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN IS SCHOOL BUSES.
EVERYBODY, ALL THE SCHOOL BUSES COME DOWN EMERALD HANG A RIGHT, DO A U-TURN ON TUTTLE AND THEN COME DOWN HERTH ROAD.
SOMEONE IS GONNA GET IN AN ACCIDENT, THERE'S GOING TO BE A FATAL A FATALITY SOONER OR LATER.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PURCHASING, ACQUIRING THE HOUSE IN ORDER TO EXTEND THE STREET.
BOB OLT OWNS THE PROPERTY TO THE RIGHT OF IT, THAT WOODED AREA.
WHY COULD, WHY COULDN'T WE SWERVE THE STREET A LITTLE BIT AND COME OUT OVER THERE RATHER THAN PURCHASING THE HOME? JUST GET ENOUGH RIGHT OF WAY TO, TO EXTEND THE STREET TO TUTTLE AND MAYBE DO SOME MODIFICATIONS IN THE MEDIAN STRIP TO ACCOMMODATE THAT.
THAT WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF ISSUE THAT WOULD REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC DUMPING ONTO HERTH ROAD.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S EVEN POSSIBLE TO DO AWAY WITH THE ROAD CONNECTING THE HEARTH BECAUSE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEY LIKE TO HAVE TWO MEANS OF ACCESS FOR FIRE TRUCKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
HOWEVER, RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE TO DO A CIRCULAR PATTERN.
WHEN YOU LEAVE THOSE APARTMENTS, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A LEFT, GO UP THE TUTTLE, MAKE A RIGHT, COMING HOME AT NIGHT, YOU HAVE TO TURN ON BRITAIN, GO DOWN HERTH TO THE ROUNDABOUT AND GO BACK UP TO THAT STREET, THE NEIGHBORHOOD BOULEVARD.
IT JUST SEEMS THAT THAT'S A VERY CUMBERSOME, CIRCULAR PATH THAT'S GONNA BE, THAT'S GONNA PRESENT ITSELF WHEN THESE GET BUILT.
SO AGAIN, TRAFFIC ON EARTH CONNECTION TO TUTTLE THE BOULEVARD CONCEPT IS NICE.
IT, IT, IT WORKS WITH THE CONDOS, HOWEVER, IT'S A RACETRACK.
HOW ARE WE GONNA CONTROL SPEED? I KNOW DUBLIN'S RIGHT NOW IS IN THE PROCESS OF PUTTING CAMERAS UP AND SPEED THINGS AND, AND TRYING TO CONTROL THE THOROUGHFARE.
SINCE THAT'S GONNA BE A CITY STREET.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT SPEED CONCERNS, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE RACING THAT'S GOING ON ON TUTTLE ROAD.
UM, THE SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN IN 2013 SHOWED A ROAD COMING FROM THE CUL-DE-SAC AND GOING UP TO TUTTLE, THE CURRENT SOUTHWEST AREA PLAN CHOSE THE SAME THING.
HOW DID WE DE DEVIATE FROM THE SOUTHWEST AREA SPECIAL PLAN TO A MORE HORIZONTAL, PERPENDICULAR PATH OF TRAFFIC GARBAGE COLLECTION SCHOOLS.
HOW DO YOU TURN AROUND IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ACCESS FOR LARGER VEHICLES? UM, REALLY, UH, I'M WITH JAY ON THE CONCEPT THAT WE NEED TO WORK OUT THIS, THIS WHOLE TRAFFIC PATTERN OR TRAFFIC STUDY, WHATEVER.
AND I UNDERSTAND WHEN WE, WE TALK WITH CITY THAT THERE ARE NO REAL PLANS BUDGETED FOR TUTTLE AND PUTTING A ROUNDABOUT IN RIGHT THERE.
BUT I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT FEATURE THAT DUBLIN NEEDS TO LOOK AT.
[00:50:01]
OLD DUBLIN WOODS DRIVE.UM, I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK TO THE TRAFFIC IMPLICATIONS OF, OF ADDING THE, UH, THE TOWN HOMES.
UM, TURNING, TURNING LEFT OFF OF TUTTLE ONTO BRITAIN PARKWAY.
I DUNNO IF YOU'VE EVER MADE THAT TURN BEFORE, BUT IF YOU'RE IN THE FAR RIGHT LANE, EVERYBODY THINKS YOU'RE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE.
AND SO WHEN YOU TURN IN, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF A RACE, YOU KNOW, THEY WANNA RACE YOU SO YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, PASS THEM UP AS YOU GET ON BRITTON PARKWAY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, FOR US IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WE'RE ABLE TO TURN ON THAT LANE INTO THAT LANE AND JUST MAKE A RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, AND, AND SO, UM, IF YOU ADD SIGNIFICANT TRAFFIC TO HEARTH ROAD, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE TURNING LEFT ONTO BRITAIN PARKWAY AND CROSSING ACROSS TWO LANES.
THEY'RE GONNA BE GOING NORTH ON BRITAIN.
THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT SAFETY ISSUE FOR, FOR DRIVERS FOR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COMING INTO ONTO BRITAIN AND OUT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, I DON'T, WE, I MEAN PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, I DON'T, WE DON'T REALLY TAKE THAT.
WE GO DOWN TO TUTTLE AND MAKE A RIGHT AS BEST WE CAN, BUT ONCE THAT GETS CONGESTED WITH THE OTHER CARS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TRY TO GET OUT RIGHT IN FRONT OF WALMART RIGHT THERE ONTO BRITAIN PARKWAY.
SO YOU REALLY CREATE A SIGNIFICANT SAFETY HAZARD AT THAT INTERSECTION.
AND SO I THINK WHAT JAY AND BOB HAVE, UH, HAVE RECOMMENDED MAKE, MAKE A LOT, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
I MEAN, IF YOU CAN HAVE A A DIFFERENT EGRESS INGRESS FOR, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD OFF OF TUTTLE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD SOLVE SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE CURRENT TURNAROUND ACROSS FROM THE HOTEL ON TUTTLE IS ALREADY A PROBLEM.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS COULD POTENTIALLY SOLVE THAT ISSUE TOO.
UH, WE HAVE DAN FOR, HI, MY NAME'S DAN FOREN, 5 2 4, 1 HEARTH ROAD, DUBLIN.
UM, JAY HIT A LOT OF IN THE BEGINNING WHAT I WANTED TO SAY.
UM, I'M MORE COMING AT YOU AS A DATA FOR KIDS UNDER, UH, 12.
UM, MY KIDS AND OTHER KIDS USE HEARTH ROAD AS A BIKING AREA, A WALKING AREA, WALKING OUR DOGS.
UM, THE LACK OF SIDEWALKS AND LIGHTING IN THAT AREA, ADDING THAT PLAN INTO IT, I WOULDN'T ALLOW 'EM TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD AT ALL.
UM, BASED ON THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT ARE THERE AND THE TRAFFIC HAZARD, THERE'S NO SIDEWALK TO CATCH DAKOTA BUS STOP FROM THAT ENTRANCE.
UM, SO HAVING SAID WHAT, HEARD WHAT JAY SAID AND ADDING IN, UM, MY, YOU KNOW, THE DAD FACTOR OF TAKING KIDS AREAS WHERE THEY EXERCISE AND RIDE BIKES AND WALK SEEMS LIKE A VERY BAD IDEA.
UM, IF IT CAN'T GET SOLVED, MAYBE LESS UNITS.
UM, BUT I'M WITH THE REST OF MY COMMUNITY ON USING TU AS AN EXIT, AN ENTRANCE BASED ON THAT FACTOR.
ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU MR. PORCELAIN.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING US HERE TODAY.
UH, MY NAME IS ERIC PARK, 5 1 7 7 RED OAK LANE, DUBLIN, OHIO, 47 YEAR RESIDENT OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN.
DUBLIN IS AN ATTRACTIVE PLACE TO LIVE.
THERE IS A RECOGNIZED NEED FOR MORE HOUSING STOCK, INCLUDING DIVERSE HOUSING OPTIONS LIKE THE PROPOSED IN THIS DEVELOPMENT.
WHILE IT'S IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS THE HOUSING SHORTAGE, THERE ARE SEVERAL CONCERNS THAT NEED ATTENTION FOR THE BENEFIT OF BOTH THE CURRENT COMMUNITY AND FUTURE RESIDENTS.
ONE OF THE PRIMARY CONCERNS IS DEVELOPMENT EMPTIES ONTO HER THROAT.
I THINK WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT POINT.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THE TRAFFIC STUDY HAS BEEN CONDUCTED, WHICH YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT.
IF THIS, IT, IT COULD GO ON AFTER THIS.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, THE, THE DESIGN APPEARS TO RELY ON PRIVATE CARRIAGE DRIVES WITH NO TURNAROUND, WHICH COMPLETE, WHICH COULD COMPLICATE EMERGENCY RESPONSE, PARTICULARLY
[00:55:01]
FOR UNITS 1 0 3 TO 1 14, 77 TO 86, 87 TO 96, 5 THROUGH 14 AND 15 THROUGH 24.UM, ALTERNATIVE TRAFFIC SOLUTIONS HAVE BEEN MENTIONED.
I HAVE A MAJOR CONCERN ABOUT THE DRAINAGE.
UM, THIS SITE IS OFTEN QUITE WET.
HILLARD OR, UH, HEARTH ROAD GETS, UM, FLOODED THREE, FOUR TIMES A YEAR IMPACT ON THE CURRENT RESIDENTS.
HOMEOWNERS IN THE OLD DUBLIN WOODS HAVE LIVED HERE FOR DECADES.
AND WHILE DEVELOPMENT IS INEVITABLE, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE RESPONSIBLY, WHICH INCLUDES, INCLUDES THE, THE CONSTRUCTION DOESN'T LIMIT ACCESS OR SIGNIFICANTLY DISRUPT THE LIVES OF THE CURRENT RESIDENTS.
THE DEVELOPMENT WILL LIKELY BRING SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC BENEFITS TO BOTH DUBLIN AND THE DEVELOPER.
THIS COULD BE A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED, BUT ONLY IF CONCERNS ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE AND SAFETY ARE ADDRESSED.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY SIDEWALKS, WE DON'T HAVE ANY BIKE PATHS.
AND, UH, THE ENTRANCE ON THE BRITON PARKWAY AND TUTTLE IS ATROCIOUS.
MY CONCLUSION, WHILE I AM NOT OPPOSED TO THE DEVELOPMENT, IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT THE CITY AND MI HOMES TAKE STEPS TO IMPROVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
CAREFULLY CONSIDER THE DENSITY AND PRIORITIZE SAFETY.
DUBLIN HAS A HISTORY OF THRIVING AND IMPROVING THROUGH DEVELOPMENT, AND I HOPE THIS AREA RECEIVE THE SAME CONSIDERATION BY ENSURING LONG-TERM RESIDENTS REMAIN SAFE WHILE IMPROVING INFRASTRUCTURE AND FUTURE GROWTH.
MS. ROUSH, HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT WHILE WE'VE BEEN IN MEETING THIS EVENING? THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN PUBLIC, FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THESE, ON THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION? OKAY.
BEFORE WE GO INTO DELIBERATION, I DO, UH, COULD I HAVE YOU BRING UP THE ORIGINAL, THE CONCEPT PLAN VERSUS, VERSUS UH, TONIGHT THIS IS A CONCEPT PLAN.
CONCEPT PLANS IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE CITY ARE VOTING IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
THIS IS NON-BINDING, NON-VOTING.
UH, THE NEXT STEP IN THE APPLICATION WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL FOR REZONING.
THE COMMISSION DOES NOT MAKE DECISIONS IN REZONING.
WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO CITY COUNCIL WHO THEN DOES REZONING.
UH, OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF THE FEEDBACK WAS ON TRAFFIC MITIGATION AND SOME ON STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND OTHER ENGINEERING ITEMS. THOSE ARE ALL PART OF THE PROCESS.
SO AS MR. HOUNSELL HAS HERE ON THE SCREEN, WE ARE IN THE CONCEPT PLAN.
THE NEXT WOULD BE THE PRELIM PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
THAT AGAIN WOULD BE THE PDP IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
THE REZONING THEN GOES TO CITY COUNCIL.
AND, AND THAT IS, I LIKE TO SAY AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE'RE CRAYONS ON PAPER, RIGHT? WE'RE, WE'RE, UH, COMING UP WITH IDEAS.
WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE, THAT IT ALIGNS WITH THE COMMUNITY PLAN, THAT IT ALIGNS WITH THE, THE AREA, THE SUB AREA PLANS.
AND THEN WHEN WE GO TO THAT PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN PHASE, WE ARE DOING MASSING.
WE'RE DOING THOSE DULO BLOCKS.
DO THE BUILDING FOOTPRINTS LOOK RIGHT? DOES THE OPEN SPACE QUANTITY LOOK RIGHT? AND THEN WHEN WE GET DOWN TO THE FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THAT'S WHEN WE'RE DOING THE LEGOS.
WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, OBVIOUSLY SOME OF THAT HAS CONSIDERATION FOR THOSE DUPLOS.
YOU CAN'T CHANGE A BUILDING FOOTPRINT WHEN YOU'RE ADDRESSING, FOR INSTANCE, THE, UH, PATIOS OFF THE BACK OVER THE, THE DRIVEWAY, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, WANTED TO PROVIDE CLARIFICATION BEFORE WE GO INTO COMMISSION DELIBERATION.
NOW IS THE TIME FOR THE COMMISSION TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON THIS NON-BINDING CONCEPT PLAN.
SO AGAIN, I THINK MR. GARVIN, I'M GONNA START OFF WITH YOU AND YOUR MICRO.
UM, I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC.
UM, APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION HERE.
UM, I THINK A LOT OF IMPORTANT POINTS ARE MADE.
I WILL, UH, KIND OF GO DOWN OUR LIST OF CONSIDERATIONS HERE.
JUST TO KIND OF GIVE A STAT OF, OF WHERE I'M AT.
UM, I DO, UH, I DO SUPPORT REZONING.
I THINK THAT THAT FITS THE, UH,
[01:00:01]
SOUTHWEST PLAN.UM, I GENERALLY SUPPORT THE SITE LAYOUT.
THE OPEN SPACES ARE AN ISSUE FOR ME.
UM, I THINK OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE, SORRY, COMMISSIONERS HAVE MENTIONED THEIR CONSENT, THEIR CONCERNS WITH THAT AS WELL.
BUT, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE NATURAL AREAS ACTIVATED MORE.
UM, I THINK MS. HARTER BROUGHT UP, UH, THE PATH AROUND THE LAKE, WHICH YOU GUYS SAID YOU'D KIND OF MOVED AWAY FROM.
I, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE RECONSIDERED.
UM, I THINK GARY, GARY'S IDEA FOR PATHWAYS TO THE STREAM WOULD ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE WITH IGNORING, UM, THE PLAN'S USE OF THE STREAM.
AND, AND REALLY IT SAYS AS A, AS A FOCAL POINT.
SO I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
UM, I ALSO, UH, TAKING THE FEEDBACK OF, UH, OF THE PUBLIC, WE, MY FIRST QUESTION WAS REGARDING THAT FUTURE CONNECTION.
I, I DO THINK IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO HAVE THAT CONNECTION THROUGH TUTTLE.
IF THERE'S A WAY, AS, AS THIS PLAN MOVES DOWN FOR THAT TO BE PRIORITIZED, I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY USEFUL FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED.
UM, AND, AND TO CLARIFY FOR MYSELF, I'D LIKE TO SEE BOTH ENTRANCES, UM, CONCEPTUAL MASSING.
UM, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THAT AS WELL.
UM, I THINK THAT, THAT THE DENSITY OF THE PROPOSED UNIT FITS IN THE PLAN.
SO, UM, WITH THE COMMENTS I'VE MADE, OTHERWISE, I AM GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE.
MR. ALEXANDER, I, I WANNA PREFACE THIS BECAUSE IT'LL, IT'LL SOUND LIKE I'M, I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, BUT ULTIMATELY, MY VOTE WILL DEPEND ON HOW THE TRAFFIC WORKS AND, AND, AND IF THE TRAFFIC IS SOLVED IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T, UM, CREATE PROBLEMS FOR THE RESIDENTS AND FOR THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK ULTIMATELY THAT WILL PROBABLY DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT I SUPPORT THIS.
I THINK THE, I THINK THAT IS, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE BIGGER CONTEXT OF HOW THIS TIES IN AND, AND NOT JUST THE PHYSICAL CONTEXT OF THE SITE.
UM, I, I AM SUPPORTIVE OF A DEVELOPMENT IF WE CAN SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS. UM, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE REZONING, THE SITE LAYOUT.
MY ONLY CONCERN, I, I HAVE SIMILAR CONCERNS WITH THE STAFF ABOUT THE TWO DIFFERENT STREET TYPES.
I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THE STREET IS SO WIDE, UM, BETWEEN THE GARAGES BECAUSE OF A ACCESS, BUT TYPICALLY THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN, IN, IN, IN THE WAY THE STREETS.
USUALLY THERE'S A MUSE OR A SMALLER STREET, UH, BEHIND UNITS WHERE GARAGES ARE LOCATED.
BUT WHEN I LOOK AT THE PLAN, THE SPACE APPEARS TO BE IDENTICAL, UM, ALONG THE BOULEVARD AS WELL AS THE STREET IN THE BACK.
NOW, MAYBE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S GONNA SAY YOU HAVE TO DO THAT, BUT I HOPE AS THIS HAS DEVELOPED, THE CHARACTER OF THOSE TWO STREETS IS VERY DIFFERENT.
'CAUSE SPATIALLY THEY LOOK VERY SIMILAR.
SO I HOPE THE CHARACTER IS VERY DIFFERENT.
UM, THE OPEN SPACE, I THINK THE STAFF'S COMMENTS ABOUT LINKAGES WITH THE NATURAL QUALITIES OF THE SITE ARE IMPORTANT.
AND I THINK IT'S EASY TO ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PLAN.
THE PARK IS RIGHT ON THE, YOUR PROPOSED POCKET PARK IS RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE GREEN SPACE.
SO THAT'S ALMOST LIKE THE GREEN SPACE IS GROWING OUT OF THAT.
AND THEN FURTHER TO THE RIGHT, IN YOUR PLAN, THERE'S AN AREA WHERE YOU HAVE GROUPED PARKING, WHICH IS A SMALLER LITTLE SPACE, WHICH ALSO COULD BE SEEN AS A, AS A PLACE THAT CONNECTS THE GREEN, UM, ALONG THAT BAND INTO YOUR DEVELOPMENT.
AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PATHS AND THINGS LINKING.
SO I, I DO THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
I THINK THE MASSING, WE SORT OF FORCED YOU INTO THAT MASSING, BECAUSE WE SAID WE DIDN'T LIKE THE GARAGES, SO YOU HAVE TO PUSH THE GARAGES UNDER THE UNIT TO GET THE SQUARE FOOTAGE YOU NEED.
SO, UM, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH, WITH THAT MASSING, UM, BECAUSE OF ACTUALLY WHAT YOU WERE DIRECTED TO DO.
UM, SO THOSE ARE MY, MY, MY GENERAL COMMENTS ABOUT IT.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE IDEA THAT THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS DESIGNATED, THIS IS A, A MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I THINK WE WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT THE USES THAT ARE SUGGESTED IN THAT CATEGORY PROBABLY DON'T WORK IN THIS PARTICULAR SITE BECAUSE OF LACK OF ACCESS TO STREETS AND ALL OF THAT.
BUT I THINK THE SPIRIT OF THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE OF IT, OF BEING MIXED USE, UM, I THINK THAT HAVING 148 UNITS, 30 BUILDINGS ALL THE SAME, DOESN'T REALLY CREATE A MIXED USE FEEL IN TERMS OF RESIDENTIAL.
AND I THINK, UM, THAT THE PLAN WOULD BENEFIT FROM HAVING THAT VARIETY OF RESIDENTIAL TYPES MIGHT EVEN BE COST POINTS.
AND YOU GET PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT INCOMES BEING ABLE TO LIVE, UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
BUT I THINK HAVING JUST ONE UNIT,
[01:05:01]
UM, ALL THE SAME THING, UM, IS NOT IN THE SPIRIT OF WHAT WE TYPICALLY, UM, LOOK FOR.SO AGAIN, I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT BEING THIS IDEA.
IT'S, IT'S A MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT IN THIS CASE, MAYBE A MIX OF RE MIXED RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND, AND A DIFFERENT TYPES OF ABUSES.
UM, I THINK EVEN FROM A SCALE STANDPOINT, HAVING ALL THE UNITS THE SAME HEIGHT, NOT ENOUGH VARIETY, YOU KNOW, IS THERE SOME TWO STORY UNITS, SOME THREE STORY? HOW CAN YOU MIX THINGS UP AND MAKE IT MORE INTERESTING? UM, I HAVE TO SAY THAT, UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE, DO I SUPPORT THE REZONING? YES.
UM, I, I GIVE YOU CREDIT FOR THE GARAGE UNITS AND RESPONDING TO WHAT WE HAD SUGGESTED.
I THINK YOU GOT IT 50%, RIGHT? AND THAT IS THE, THE SHARED STREET WORKS FROM THAT STANDPOINT.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE THIS ANOTHER OTHER LAYER OF UNITS THAT ARE NOT FRONTING TO ANOTHER STREET.
AND THE SPIRIT OF WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, AND I WAS GOING TO THE TOWN'S ON THE PARKWAY, I DUNNO IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT DEVELOPMENT, BUT THAT HAS REAR GARAGES REAR ACCESS, BUT ALL THE UNITS FRONT ONTO A STREET AND JUST HAVING ONE SHARED STREET, AND I MEAN, A STREET THAT YOU CAN ACCESS, RIGHT? UM, I, I JUST DON'T UN UNDERSTAND.
UM, AND MR. UNDERHILL UNDERSTANDS THIS FROM OTHER PROJECTS.
WE'VE, OTHER FEEDBACK WE'VE GIVEN OF HOW YOU PUT A SIDEWALK OUT ALONG AN OPEN SPACE AND, AND TOUT THAT AS A FRONT DOOR THAT NOBODY CAN REALLY GET TO UNLESS YOU WALK, YOU KNOW, QUITE FAR TO GET TO IT.
SO, UM, I THINK THE LAYOUT IS FLAWED IN THAT RESPECT.
UM, YOU COULD PROBABLY LOOK AT DOING SOME THINGS WHERE YOU ACTUALLY TURN THE UNITS PERPENDICULAR TO THE, WHERE THEY ARE NOW AND START TO CREATE, I THINK YOU MENTIONED AQUAS CREATING A SERIES OF COURTS, AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL.
BUT WE HAVE, WE HAVE REVIEWED, I DON'T KNOW, THREE OR FOUR APPLICATIONS THAT HAD A SIMILAR STRATEGY OF THESE UNITS THAT ARE FACING ONTO AN OPEN SPACE WITH A SIDEWALK, AND THEIR PARKING IS, YOU KNOW, 200 FEET AWAY.
AND, AND THAT'S NOT THE INTENTION OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN GUIDELINES.
IF YOU GO BACK TO THOSE, IT'S ALL OF THE UNITS FRONT ONTO A STREET.
AND THE IDEA IS YOU TUCK PARKING BEHIND HOWEVER YOU DO IT, WHETHER IT'S A SURFACE LOT OR IT'S A, IT'S A GARAGE, BUT IT'S THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE HIDING THE CARS AND CELEBRATING THE PUBLIC SPACE, IF YOU WILL, WITH THE UNITS.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, SO THAT'S NUMBER TWO LAYOUT.
YOU'VE GOT THAT FEEDBACK ON THE OPEN SPACE SIDE, AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT THIS WONDERFUL WOODED ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S HARD NOT TO SAY THAT'S A GREAT ASSET TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, YOU KNOW, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT, WALKING PATHS, BUT I STILL THINK YOU DO HAVE A, A SMALL PARK OR A, A, A PLAYGROUND OR WHATEVER IT IS.
IT SEEMS LIKE THERE COULD BE A MORE OF THAT.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOME SMALLER ONES THAT REALLY PROVIDE POCKETS OF ACTIVITY AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS OPPOSED TO JUST ONE SPACE LIKE THAT.
UM, AGAIN, I THINK I JUST COMMENTED ON THE ARCHITECTURAL MASSING.
AGAIN, THREE, THREE STORIES ACROSS THE BOARD TO ME, DOESN'T CREATE THE VARIETY THAT, UM, WE AS A COMMISSION TYPICALLY LOOK FOR IN A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS.
THANK YOU, MR. MU, MS. HARDER.
UM, THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT THIS EVENING.
THANKS FOR THE NEIGHBORS COMING OUT.
UM, I'M ALSO IN FAVOR OF THE REZONING, ONLY IF, UH, WE GET THE TRAFFIC ISSUE FIXED.
UM, WE NEED TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF HERTH ROAD, YOU KNOW, JUST DRIVING DOWN THERE, IT'S A, A WONDERFUL STREET, AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
UM, THIS IS MIXED RESIDENTIAL, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING THE COMMUNITY PLAN, BUT IT'S REALLY ASKING FOR MEDIUM AND, AND DENSITY, AND IT'S CALLED FOR THAT.
AND SO, SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT ISSUE, UM, I THINK BY INCREASING THE NUMBERS AND MAKING IT LOOK LONG AND NOT AS, UH, LIKE A VARIETY OF, OF, UH, SPACES, IT REALLY MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S A LARGE DENSITY AND FEELS VERY HEAVY.
UM, AGAIN, SAFETY CONCERNS ARE MY NUMBER ONE ISSUE TOO, OF TALKING ABOUT THIS.
AND IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEARTH ROAD, YOU KNOW, UPDATING IT, UH, WORKING WITH THE CITY ON SIDEWALKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO IT BECOMES SAFE FOR EVERYBODY.
UM, NUMBER TWO GETS US TO, UM, THE SUPPORT OF THE LAYOUT.
UH, AGAIN, I THINK, UM, IT HAS A HEAVINESS TO IT, UM, ADDING IN THE FUTURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS, IT'S HELPFUL, HELPFUL FOR RESIDENTS ON HERTH ROAD AND THE
[01:10:01]
NUMBER OF CARS WE'VE GOTTA, UH, PARTICIPATE WITH OR, UH, KEEP THAT IN LINE FOR SURE.UM, UH, TO ME, THE PUBLIC SPACES DON'T CONNECT AND WE NEED TO HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT BEING, UH, IMPORTANT.
YOU, WE, WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED THE, UH, THE BASINS, UH, RETENTION BASINS.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WE SPENT TIME ON THIS COMMITTEE TOO, UH, TALKING ABOUT THE CREATIVITY OF EACH SPACE.
AND, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT WAS DONE IN THAT AREA, AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO LOOK BACK ON.
AND THAT MAY BE, YOU KNOW, ADDING IN DIFFERENT PARK BENCHES OR, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO AND EXPECT TO DO ON THE PLACES THAT THEY LIVE.
I ALSO STUCK IN THAT AREA, SNOW REMOVAL.
SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE THE DRIVEWAYS AND THINGS LIKE, OR WHERE YOUR DRIVEWAY'S COMING OUT AND THOSE STREETS BACK THERE, HOW'S THAT GOING TO, UM, PERTAIN TO THAT AREA TOO? SO, UM, UH, NUMBER THREE GETS INTO, UM, UH, THE OPEN SPACE AGAIN.
AND, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT CREATIVITY.
THERE WERE DOG PARKS MENTIONED BEFORE.
YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT COULD, WHAT CAN YOU DO TO BRING, UH, THE NEIGHBORS THAT LIVE THERE AS WELL AS THE NEIGHBORS AROUND TOGETHER THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF CAN ALL LIVE AND, AND WORK TOGETHER IN THAT WAY? UM, THE NUMBER OF UNITS I AM CONCERNED ABOUT, I MENTIONED, AND, UM, UH, ALSO I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT WITH EACH UNIT.
IT LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO MY HOME.
I FEEL LIKE EACH UNIT DOOR LOOKS LIKE IT'S, IT, THERE'S NO CONNECTION TO THAT.
AND THAT MAY BE EVEN, UM, A DOOR WITH STEPS OR, UH, VARIATION TO THAT WOULD MUCH MORE WELCOMING THAT IT'S, THIS IS MY HOUSE, MY AREA.
AND, UH, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD, UM, BE SOME CREATIVITY THERE.
BUT, UM, LEMME MAKE SURE I GOT EVERYTHING.
MR. CHINOOK, UH, AGAIN, I'LL SAY THANK YOU TO THE, THE PUBLIC.
OBVIOUSLY, WE, WE TAKE THAT INTO, UH, YOUR COMMENTS INTO DEEP CONSIDERATION, SO WE APPRECIATE BEING HERE, AND YOUR THOUGHTS WERE EXCELLENT.
I'M NOT GONNA GO OVER IT AGAIN.
I, I GENERALLY, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE REZONING, BUT WE'VE GOT SOME INFRASTRUCTURE TRAFFIC ISSUES THAT YOU, WE KNOW WILL WORK YOU, YOU'LL WORK THROUGH WITH THE CITY TO, UH, TO MOVE FORWARD.
UM, I THINK WHAT EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO SAY, AND MS. HARD ALLUDED TO IT, WAS THE WHOLE CREATED CREATIVITY PIECE WHEN IT COMES TO THE SITE LAYOUT.
I THINK LAST TIME WE WERE HERE, WE MENTIONED TRYING A LITTLE HARDER, BEING A LITTLE MORE CREATIVE WITH IT, WHICH YOU LISTENED, BUT WE KIND OF JUST KIND OF CREATED ANOTHER PROBLEM, I GUESS, IF YOU WILL, LIKE TO, TO MR. WAY'S POINT OF, IT'S STILL VERY GRIDED, IT'S STILL VERY RIGID, IT'S JUST NOT, IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT APPEAL THAT, THAT, THAT UNIQUENESS TO IT THAT, THAT WE TYPICALLY LOOK FOR.
UM, IN A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS.
I THINK THE, THE GREEN SPACE IS A HUGE CONCERN.
UM, I APPRECIATE THE PARK, APPRECIATE SOME OF THE STUFF YOU'VE DONE, BUT AGAIN, WHEN WE THINK USABLE GREEN SPACE, THAT THAT JUST DOESN'T SEEM, SEEM THAT THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF IT.
UM, AND I THINK PART OF THE CREATIVITY WOULD COME WITH THINKING ABOUT THAT, BUT ALSO THE STREETS SCAPE.
UM, I THINK ALSO THE VARIATION HOUSING, WHETHER IT'S LIKE WE TALKED, YOU KNOW, MIXED, MIXED RESIDENTIAL, MIXED HOUSING, I THINK WE GO A LONG WAY HERE, BUT JUST AGAIN, REALLY THINKING ABOUT LESS GRIDED, LESS RIGID.
I THINK YOU CAN DO A LOT OF REALLY NEAT THINGS WITH THE SITE.
I JUST THINK WE NEED TO WORK A LITTLE BIT HARDER.
UM, AGAIN, GENERALLY, GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF IT, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT, A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
AND I ALSO THINK THE CREATIVITY WILL COME WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURE AND SOME OF THE MASSING VARIATION IN HEIGHTS.
I MEAN, VARIATION IN MATERIALS, SOME THINGS LIKE THAT.
AGAIN, VARIATION IN SIZES OF, OF RESIDENCES, UM, TYPES OF BUILDING, I, I THINK CAN GO A LONG WAY TO REALLY ACTIVATE IT AND, AND MAKE IT A REALLY NICE SPACE THAT, UM, WE'RE SUPER PROUD TO HAVE.
UH, I ALSO AM GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE REZONE.
UH, AGAIN, TURNING THIS INTO A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY IS WHAT THE CITY HAD ENVISIONED WITH THE ENVISION DUBLIN PLAN.
UH, I ALSO, UH, AGREE THAT THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE ON THE SITE LAYOUT.
UM, WE, WE TALK ABOUT DENSITY, BUT WE ALSO TALK ABOUT INTENSITY.
UH, THE INTENSITY SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED FROM THE LAST TIME THAT WE SAW THIS.
WE WENT VERTICAL AND EXTRA STORY, AND WE PUT ANOTHER 20 SOME ODD, UH, 22 UNITS IN THIS AREA.
SO WE INCREASED THE DENSITY AND WE INCREASED THE INTENSITY.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WAS WHERE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WAS, WAS GOING.
I DO APPRECIATE THE ALLEY LOAD, UH, GARAGES.
BUT, UH, WHILE THAT WORKS IN THE BELT AREA OF THE, THE PLAN ON THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH AREAS,
[01:15:01]
WE'VE TURNED FRONT DOORS INTO BACK DOORS.THERE'S NO DELIVERY ACCESS, THERE'S NO FRONT DOOR ACCESS.
WE, WE'VE ESSENTIALLY TURNED THAT FRONT DOOR INTO A BACK DOOR.
UH, AND, AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT TYPICALLY WE LOOK FOR.
IF WE WERE TO ADDRESS THE, UH, AND PUT A PUBLIC STREET ON THAT NORTH, NORTHERN, AND SOUTHERN END, THAT ALLEVIATES STAFF'S CONCERN ABOUT THE PRIVATE, WHAT DO WE CALL IT? PUBLIC SERVICE STREET WITH, UH, ALLEVIATES MY CONCERN ABOUT SIDEWALKS NOT ON PUBLIC STREETS, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE'VE DONE SINCE.
WE LEARNED OUR LESSONS ON A COUPLE OTHER PRIVATE STREETS THAT TURN PUBLIC.
UH, AND A LOT OF, SOME OF THOSE OTHER PRESSURES GO AWAY.
INTRODUCING A STREET DOES TAKE AWAY SOME OF SOMETHING ELSE.
AND I, I DARE SAY THAT GOES RIGHT IN HAND WITH THAT DENSITY INTENSITY.
UH, GOING BACK TOWARD THE COUNT OF UNITS WHERE WE SAW THIS THE LAST TIME, UH, OPEN SPACE, I, I APPRECIATE THE PARKLAND.
I ALSO PERSONALLY WOULD, WOULD PREFER SOME TYPE OF ACTIVATION IN THE GREEN AREA.
BUT, BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING, YOU KNOW, TAKING TREES OUT AND TURNING IT INTO PARKLAND.
THERE'S A TIME AND PLACE FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF OPEN SPACE, AND THERE IS THE NATURAL OPEN SPACE.
AND I THINK THIS IS A, A GREAT CANDIDATE FOR THAT TYPE OF ACTIVATION THAT IS MINIMALISTIC.
UH, FINALLY ON THE ARCHITECTURE AND THE MASSING, UH, I SPOKE ABOUT THE INTENSITY OF THE UNITS ALREADY, UH, BUT I ALSO ECHO SOME OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE, THE LACK OF VARIETY.
UH, I THINK IT WOULD BE A SHAME TO DRIVE INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD AND TRY TO COUNT HOUSES TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE WAS YOURS AS YOU WERE DRIVING DOWN THE STREET.
UH, I THINK THAT INTRODUCING A VARIETY CAN MITIGATE THAT CONCERN.
INTRODUCING THE DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPE, DIFFERENT HEIGHT WOULD MITIGATE THAT CONCERN.
IT COULD ALSO BE DONE THROUGH DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURAL DESIGNS, DIFFERENT COLORATIONS IN OUR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL UNITS THAT ARE DETACHED HOMES.
WE ALSO DON'T USUALLY SEE IN DEVELOPMENT TEXT THE SAME BUILDING TYPES ADJACENT TO ONE ANOTHER OR WITHIN TWO OR THREE HOUSES OF ONE ANOTHER.
SO THAT COULD BE A CONCEPT THAT COULD BE INTRODUCED INTO THIS PLAN.
ALL IN ALL, AGAIN, I, I HEAR FROM THE COMMISSION THAT WE'RE ALL GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE RESIDENTIAL RE REZONE.
UH, HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS MOSTLY IN TRAFFIC SAFETY AND THE ENGINEERING, WHICH WOULD COME LATER IN THE PROJECT, SOME OF WHICH IS THE ONUS OF THE APPLICANT, SOME OF WHICH IS THE ONUS OF THE CITY.
SO, UH, WE HEARD TONIGHT FROM RESIDENTS ABOUT ACQUISITION OF PROPERTIES AND THAT SORT OF THING THAT IS NOT, NOT IN THE COMMISSION'S PURVIEW, BUT WE DO APPRECIATE THE SENTIMENT AND THE ROOT CAUSE.
THE ROOT CAUSE IS THERE ARE SOME TRAFFIC CONCERNS THAT NEED TO BE MITIGATED WITH THE ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT.
SO WITH THAT, THIS IS A NON-BINDING, NON-ACTION ITEM.
I'D LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT IF THERE ARE ANY CLARIFICATIONS THAT YOU SEEK, AND IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR AD NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.
MI HOMES, SAME ADDRESS AS ANDY.
I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK AND I APPRECIATE GETTING KINDA INTO THE NITTY GRITTY.
YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT CAME UP, I WAS A LITTLE BIT SURPRISED.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS GONNA BE A REALLY UNIQUE ENVIRONMENT AND, AND I APOLOGIZE, WE DO NEED TO FOLLOW ORDER FOR THE MEETING.
SO IF THERE'S ANY CLARIFICATION YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FROM THE COMMISSION, THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR RIGHT NOW.
WHAT WE, WE DON'T WANNA JUST, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE COMMENTS.
UH, ARE YOU ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE COMMENTS OR ARE YOU TRYING TO ARTICULATE? WELL, I'D LIKE TO ARTICULATE MY POSITION, I GUESS, BUT ALSO GET SOME FEEDBACK ON, ON IT.
IS THAT, SO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS SPECIFIC TO THE COMMISSION'S COMMENTS, THEN WE WOULD WELCOME THOSE QUESTIONS.
HOWEVER, IF THERE'S, UH, ADDITIONAL DIALOGUE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE TO PROPOSE OR TO ADVOCATE FOR, THEN WE WOULD INVITE YOU TO WORK THROUGH STAFF ON THOSE.
SO CAN I GIVE AN EXAMPLE AND THEN ASK A QUESTION? YES.
SO IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH FOUNDERS PARK, THE FORMER BATEL SITE IN DOWNTOWN AND HARRISON WEST THAT MI BUILT, WE HAVE HOMES THAT FRONT ONTO A PARK, VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE PROPOSED HERE.
SPENT A LOT OF TIME, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THE PIZZA GUY GET THERE? AND SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, I, I, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
WE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF INSTANCES WHERE THAT, THAT WE HAVE BUILT THAT, AND IT'S A REALLY, IT IS A REALLY UNIQUE ENVIRONMENT.
SO IF I COULD GET JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE FEEDBACK ON THAT, BECAUSE WE, WE HAVE SEEN WHERE IT IS VERY SUCCESSFUL THAT, UH, THE AMAZON MAN FIGURES OUT HOW TO GET THERE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST A LITTLE CLARIFICATION ON THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
SO I, I'LL START AND THEN I'LL ASK MY COMMISSIONERS TO CHIME IN.
[01:20:01]
BIGGEST DIFFERENCES IS THESE ARE NON-ATTACHED PRODUCTS.YOU'RE NOT GOING FIVE UNITS UP TO TRY TO FIND WHICH HOUSE IS THE, THE HOUSE THAT YOU'RE DELIVERING TO.
SO THAT'S MY KNEE JERK VIEW ON THIS VERSUS AN ATTACHED PRODUCT THAT'S 5, 6, 7 UNITS LONG ON WHERE DO I PARK? HOW LONG IS MY DWELL TIME, AND HOW AM I GOING TO NAVIGATE TO THAT FRONT YARD? SO, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE FROM IAN WANTS TO ADD TO THAT.
UM, AGAIN, THE, THE PRO THE, THE IDEA OF CREATING COURTS IS NOT A BAD IDEA.
UM, AND, AND THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT, IT'S NOT A COURT, IT'S A VERY LONG LINEAR OPEN SPACE.
AND I CAN'T SPEAK TO HOW SUCCESSFUL IT IS, BUT THE IDEA IS SCALE.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SCALE OF THE UNITS THAT HAVE A SIDEWALK AND FACED, I MEAN, THAT'S A HUGE SCALE.
IF IT WAS FIVE UNITS OFF OF A STREET THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO CREATE SOMETHING, TO ME THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
SO IT'S, IT'S A, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE, WE'VE HEARD THIS, IT'S A MATTER OF SCALE.
THAT THE SCALE IS, IS QUITE VAST HERE TO ACHIEVE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE SHOWING ME A PICTURE OF SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS ABOUT.
IF IT WORKS, IT JUST, IT, I WOULD MAKE THE SAME CRITICISM ABOUT THAT.
IT'S, IT'S TOO LONG AND TOO DISCONNECTED.
AND THE, THE ONLY PIGGYBACK COMMENT THAT I WOULD HAVE TO, THAT IS E EVEN GIVEN THE SCALE, WE ALSO LOOK AT THE INLET.
WHILE THERE ARE BREAKS BETWEEN UNITS, YOU DON'T HAVE SIDEWALKS IN ALL OF THOSE BREAKS BETWEEN UNITS.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 10 UNITS.
AND SO THE AVERAGE IS FIVE UNITS I'M GONNA HAVE TO WALK TO AND DWELL.
TIME IS INCREASED BLOCKING OF DRIVEWAYS BE, BECAUSE THAT'S, THE AMAZON MAN DOESN'T GO FIND GUEST PARKING AND PARKING, GUEST PARKING, AND THEN GO, HE PARKS AS CLOSE TO THE DOOR AS HE CAN.
AND SO THOSE ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT COME WITH THE ATTACHED PRODUCTS, WITH THE PUBLIC SERVICE STREETS, WITH THE SIDEWALKS NOT ADJACENT TO PRI, EXCUSE ME, PUBLIC STREETS.
AND, AND THE OTHER DYNAMIC IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU SHOWED US IS YOU HAVE UNITS FACING UNITS.
SO YOU'RE CREATING, YOU'RE CREATING PLACE AS OPPOSED TO, UH, JUST A SINGLE EDGE THAT'S LOOKING INTO OPEN SPACE.
IT, IT, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S BACK TO THE SCALE THING, BUT THAT ALSO IN THIS CASE MAY BE HELPING IT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT UNITS FACING UNITS.
AND I, I DO WANNA MAKE SURE I DID PREFACE THAT BY SEEKING CLARIFICATION.
I THINK THAT, THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED, AT LEAST AT THIS SPACE, AT THIS STAGE OF THE CONCEPT PLAN, THAT THAT PARTICULAR CONCERN.
ARE THERE OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU'D LIKE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION TO CLARIFY FOR YOU THIS EVENING? YEAH, TALK, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MIXED USE HERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I BELIEVE TERMINOLOGY MAY BE, UH, A LITTLE CHALLENGING HERE.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT MIXED USE.
WE'RE LOOKING AT MIXED RESIDENTIAL TYPES.
SO WHETHER THAT'S THREE STORY UNITS WITH TWO STORY UNITS ATTACHED WITH DETACHED DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING IN THE SAME COMMUNITY AND LOOKING FOR HEAD NONS.
THAT'S WHAT I HEARD, KNOWING THE COMMISSION AND, AND HOW DO, SO FOR INSTANCE, TOWNS OF PARKWAY WAS MENTIONED.
I MEAN, THAT'S OVER 175 UNITS.
IT, TO ME, IT, THAT SPEAKS A LITTLE BIT MORE TO THE OVERALL AREA.
I KNOW WE'RE AT A MICRO LEVEL TALKING ABOUT OUR INDIVIDUAL PROJECT, BUT YOUR VISION PLAN DOESN'T TALK ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL PROJECT.
THIS IS CERTAINLY A TRANSITIONARY AREA FROM TUTTLE AND THE BIG BOX RETAIL OVER, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE, I MEAN, IT'S HARD.
I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE LESS THAN THAT TOWNS AT PARKWAY.
I MEAN, 30 UNITS LESS THAN THAT WITH ONE PRODUCT THAT IT, IT'S, I'M NOT SURE IT'S SUPER PRACTICAL TO HA I MEAN, I, I THINK IT SHOULD BE SEEN IN MORE OF AN OVERALL SETTING THAT THE, WHAT THE SURROUNDING WILL BE, WHAT THE HOUSING TO THE SOUTH WILL BE ABLE TO BE, AS OPPOSED TO THIS LITTLE ACREAGE SURROUNDED BY A STREAM TO, TO PACK TWO, MAYBE TWO THINGS IN THERE THAT DON'T PLAY NICELY TOGETHER.
SO, AGAIN, I'LL SPEAK FIRST AND THEN LOOK TO THE COMMISSION FOR ADDITIONS.
BUT I, I, MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE COMMISSION IS THAT THEY'RE REACTING TO THE OVERALL INTENSITY.
THE INTENSITY IS VERY INTENSE.
AND SO THEREFORE, ONE WAY TO MITIGATE THAT INTENSITY IS TO INTRODUCE A VARIETY OF HOUSING, BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T GO MORE THAN THREE STORIES.
SO BY NATURE OF IT NOT GOING MORE THAN THREE STORIES, IT STEPS DOWN, WHICH THEN DECREASES THE INTENSITY.
ADDITIONALLY, THE, THE VARIETY OF THE HOUSING LOOKING
[01:25:01]
IN AND SEEING A MONOLITH OF, OF A SINGLE PRODUCT TYPE, UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE AT CONCEPT PHASE, WE DON'T EXPECT YOU TO BRING EVERY HOUSING TYPE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD, BUT OUR PERSPECTIVE IS LIMITED TO THE MATERIALS THAT WE'RE PROVIDED AT THIS STAGE.AND THOSE TWO HOUSING TYPES WERE VERY, VERY SIMILAR TO ONE ANOTHER.
SO THE VISION FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE IS THAT WE HAVE THE 148 UNITS THAT ARE ALL EXACTLY THAT HOUSING TYPE, AND THAT, I BELIEVE IS WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING.
AND AGAIN, LOOKING AT HEAD NODS, DIDN'T SEE YOURS.
SO
AND AGAIN, IT'S THE WAY THAT, THAT IT, THEY'RE TWISTED AND TURNED AND THERE'S A CENTRAL OPEN SPACE, AND THERE'S ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURAL, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ELEMENTS TO THE BUILDINGS THAT REALLY BREAK THEM UP AND I THINK CREATE VARIETY AND, AND CHARACTER.
I'M JUST, WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT YET.
AND MAYBE YOU HAVE THAT INTENTION, BUT NO, NO, THAT, THAT'S, I APPRECIATE THAT, THAT'S FAIR FEEDBACK AS IT RELATES TO THE, THE ELEVATIONS.
ANY OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU SEEK CLARIFICATION FROM THE COMMISSION, ESPECIALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE, THOSE FOUR QUESTIONS, AND THEN OF COURSE, ANYTHING ELSE THAT THE COMMISSION BROUGHT UP, ZACH, IF YOU COULD PRESENT THOSE JUST SO HE HAS VISUAL TO THEM.
NO, I THINK THE TRAFFIC I, I, I CAN WORK WITH, WITH STAFF ON THAT.
I THINK THE TRAFFIC'S A LITTLE BIT CON CONFUSING.
UM, BUT I WILL NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE CITY'S POSITION ON WHY IT HASN'T, WHY IT DOESN'T THINK IT'S AN ISSUE NOW.
AND THEN MY THOUGHT IS, IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO FIX IT IS VIA DEVELOPMENT, OTHERWISE DUBLIN WOULD BE FIXING IT NOW.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL TRY TO COME UP WITH A CREATIVE SOLUTION FOR THAT.
WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR BEING HERE THIS EVENING, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO BEING PARTNERS WITH YOU IN THIS AND FUTURE PROJECTS IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN.
AND TO THE PUBLIC WHO CAME OUT FOR THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SPENDING THURSDAY EVENING WITH US.
YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO STAY.
WE HAVE ONE MORE, UM, APPLICATION FOR THIS EVENING, AND THEN WE WILL GO ON TO, UH, THE REST OF OUR MEETING.
[Case #24-110Z]
ALL RIGHT.OUR NEXT CASE IS 24 DASH 1 1 0 Z.
AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE EXITING, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION, WE DO ASK THE SOUND CARRIES.
SO WE DO ASK THAT YOU HEAD TOWARD THE EXIT.
YOU'RE WELCOME TO COLLECT DOWN THERE.
ALRIGHT, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OF A REZONING FROM HDHR, HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL, AND HDHP, HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC PUBLIC TWO HDHC, HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC CORE.
THE COMBINED 0.86 ACRE SITE IS LOCATED ON BOTH SIDES OF NORTH RIVERVIEW STREET, SOUTH OF NORTH STREET AND NORTH OF WING HILL LANE.
AND MR. SEL, COULD I HAVE YOU CLOSE THE FAR DOORS? THANK YOU.
I WILL TURN THE TIME OVER TO YOU.
GOOD EVENING COMMISSION MEMBERS.
WANTED TO START BY GIVING A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND ABOUT THE LOCATION AND THE, UH, UH, HOW WE GOT TO, UM, THE, UH, PROCESS AND WHERE WE ARE AT.
UH, AT THIS POINT, THE, UH, PROPERTIES OBVIOUSLY ARE WITHIN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, NEAR THE SCIO RIVER.
AND IT'S AN AREA WHERE THE CITY HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE CONDITION OF SOME OF THE, UH, PROPERTIES THERE, AND ALSO ABOUT THE SCALE OF SOME OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENTS THAT CAME IN BEFORE.
AND SO THE CITY MADE A CONCERTED EFFORT, UM, A FEW YEARS AGO TO ACQUIRE SEVERAL PARCELS IN THAT AREA WITH THE INTENT OF FACILITATING IMPROVEMENT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME MAINTAINING AN APPROPRIATE SCALE OF DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THAT AREA.
AND SO IN 2021, THERE WERE EIGHT PARCELS THAT WERE ACQUIRED BY THE CITY.
UH, SIX OF 'EM WERE ON THE, UH, WEST SIDE OF NORTH RIVERVIEW.
ALL INCLUDED, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT HAD BEEN VACANT OR CLOSE TO BEING VACANT.
AND THEN TWO PARCELS ON THE EAST SIDE, ONE INCLUDED A HOME, AND THE OTHER ONE, UH, WAS PRETTY MUCH, UH, IN ITS NATURAL STATE BACKING UP TO THE CELLULAR RIVER.
THE, AGAIN, THE INTENT WAS, UH, IN ADDITION TO FACILITATING DEVELOPMENT, WAS ALSO TO, UH, FACILITATE ACCESS TO THE RIVER.
SO GETTING THOSE PARCELS UNDER PUBLIC OWNERSHIP AND, UM, UH, ENCOURAGING THE, UH, EVENTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF A PARK ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE RIVER WAS PART OF THE, UH, INTENT AS WELL.
SO YOU CAN SEE IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL PARCELS THAT, UH, ARE
[01:30:01]
OUTLINED IN RED, UH, THE PARCELS ON THE EAST SIDE DO GO ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER'S EDGE.BUT THE PROJECT SITE, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE AS WE GET INTO THE ACTUAL REQUESTS HERE, UM, LIMITS THAT TO WHERE YOU SEE THE YELLOW BOUNDARY.
SO THERE'S A CONSCIOUS EFFORT TO MAINTAIN AS MUCH OF THAT LAND AS POSSIBLE FOR THE FUTURE, UH, PARKLAND.
SO WITH THAT, I MENTIONED THE CITY ACQUISITION IN TERMS OF A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A BACKGROUND, UH, ONCE THOSE WERE UNDER THE CITY'S OWNERSHIP IN, UH, 2021, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS ISSUED FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THAT SITE.
THERE WERE TWO RESPONSES, UH, ATCH PRESENTED.
ONE THAT, UH, UH, WAS, UH, APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, ENDED UP GOING FOR INFORMAL REVIEW.
AND, AND I'D REMIND YOU, DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARDS.
AND SO THEY WENT THROUGH AN INFORMAL REVIEW IN EARLY 2023, UM, AND PRESENTED CONCEPTS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT HERE, INCLUDING THE POTENTIAL REZONING TO THE HISTORIC CORE, WHICH IS A REQUEST TONIGHT.
UH, THOSE WERE VIEWED, UH, POSITIVELY.
SO EVENTUALLY THAT LED TO A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY AND KATCH, UH, FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE AREA.
UH, GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE RESPONSE TO THE REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS AND THE INFORMAL REVIEW BY THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD.
UM, PART OF THE AGREEMENT IS KATCH WOULD CREATE THEIR NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS AT THIS LOCATION, AND THERE WILL BE SIGNIFICANT JOB CREATION WHILE MAINTAINING THE, UH, SCALE OF DEVELOPMENT WITHIN, UH, THE SPIRIT OF THE ORIGINAL, UH, ACQUISITION INTENT SUB.
SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, THE, UH, APPLICANT PRESENTED A CONCEPT PLAN FOR REVIEW BY THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD IN, UH, MARCH OF 2024, THAT WAS RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL BY, UM, UH, TO CITY COUNCIL.
AGAIN, CONCEPT PLANS WITH A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT REQUIRE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL, WHICH TOOK PLACE IN APRIL.
AND THEN, UH, COUPLE WEEKS AGO, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD, UH, REVIEWED AND APPROVED THE PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN, UH, AND, UH, THAT INCLUDED THE PARKING PLAN AS WELL AND RE AND APPROVED THAT PLAN WITH SOME CONDITIONS AND WAIVERS, AND THEN RECOMMENDED THE REZONING TO THIS COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL.
SO WITH THAT AS A BACKGROUND, UM, THE, THE TIMELINE THAT YOU SEE HERE IS WHERE WE ARE AT.
SO THE, UH, REZONING IF RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL OR, UH, AFTER YOUR ACTION TO TONIGHT, WOULD MOVE ON TO CITY COUNCIL, AND ULTIMATELY, THE FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN WILL GO BACK TO THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
UH, SO CONSIDERATIONS FOR REZONING TONIGHT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATENESS, UH, WITHIN THE AREA, UH, BY REASON OF CHANGE OR CHANGING CONDITIONS, AND ALSO CONSISTENCY WITH APPLICABLE CITY PLANS.
AND THE ACTION IS RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.
SO BRIEFLY, THE, THE PROJECT AREA INCLUDES THE RENOVATION OF THE FOUR HOUSES THAT I MENTIONED.
THE THREE ON THE WEST SIDE WOULD BE USE, UH, DURING THE WEEK AS, UH, SMALL OFFICES AND ON WEEKENDS, THEY BECOME PART OF, UH, SOME ADDITIONAL ART MAKER SPACE, UH, ART MARKETS, THOSE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES.
THE, UH, EXISTING HOUSE ON THE EAST SIDE WOULD HAVE AN ADDITION ADDED TO THE NORTH SIDE OF IT, AND WOULD BE CONVERTED INTO A RESTAURANT, UH, THAT HAPPENS TO BE CLANGING TO THE TOP OF THE HILL.
AND SO IT, UM, IT HAS, UH, UH, IT WOULD HAVE ANOTHER COUPLE LEVELS BELOW THE STREET GRADE AND WITH, WITH DECKS AND VIEWS OF THE RIVER.
AND THEN A BRAND NEW BUILDING WOULD BE DEVELOPED JUST SOUTH OF THAT, UH, PARTICULAR HOUSE.
AND THAT WOULD BE ADDITIONAL OFFICES FOR COHES AS WELL AS AN EVENT SPACE.
SO THOSE USES ARE NOT PERMITTED IN THE CURRENT ZONING DISTRICTS, WHICH ARE, UH, LET ME, AND, AND THESE ARE JUST SOME IMAGES OF, UH, WHAT THAT DEVELOPMENT, UH, IS PROPOSED TO LOOK LIKE WITH SOME OF THE EXISTING HOMES AND THE NEW BUILDING.
THE BACKGROUND, THE CURRENT ZONING ON THE WEST SIDE IS HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL, WHICH, UH, AS THE NAME APPLIES, IT'S FOCUSING ON, UH, RESIDENTIAL USES.
THE EAST SIDE IS HISTORIC PUBLIC, WHICH COVERS, UH, UH, PUBLIC LAND.
COULD BE SCHOOLS, COULD BE PUBLIC FACILITIES, COULD BE, UH, PARKLAND.
AND NEITHER ONE OF THOSE DISTRICTS ALLOWS
[01:35:01]
THE MIX OF USES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED.HERE, YOU CAN SEE IMMEDIATELY TO THE WEST, UH, THE DARK RED AREAS ARE ALL HISTORIC CORE, WHICH ARE THE, UH, TYPES OF URBAN USES THAT ARE MIXED.
AND THAT'S THE PROPOSAL IS TO REASON ON THEM, TO HISTORIC CORE.
IN TERMS OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN, THE FUTURE LAND USE IS, UH, MIXED USE VILLAGE, WHICH IS VERY, UH, THE PROPOSED USES ARE VERY CONSISTENT WITH THE INTENT OF THAT, THE LAND USE DESIGNATION, OFFICE, RETAIL, COMMERCIAL, CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALKS, ONE TO THREE STORIES, SHARED PARKING SPACES, UH, INSTEAD OF INDIVIDUAL, UH, PARKING LOTS ON INDIVIDUAL SITES AND WALKABLE, UH, WALKABLE ENVIRONMENT.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, PROPOSED AREAS, UH, OF, UH, REZONING OUTLINED IN RED.
AND, UH, THEY ARE ALL, ALL PARCELS IN QUESTION ARE WITHIN THAT MISUSED VILLAGE DESIGNATION.
AND THEN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AREA PLAN ALSO OUTLINES THAT OR HIGHLIGHTS THAT AREA OF NORTH RIVERVIEW AS A SIGNIFICANT, UH, UH, AREA WHERE IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE DUBLIN RANK, UH, LINK BRIDGE, UH, PROVIDING POTENTIAL ACCESS TO CITY PARKS.
AND, UM, THE PARCELS AND QUESTIONS ARE WITHIN THE MIXED USE DESIGNATION WITHIN THE, UH, AREA PLANTS.
SO WITH THAT, UH, STAFF'S CONCLUSION IS THAT THE PROPOSED REZONING IS CONSISTENT WITH THE APPLICABLE CITY PLANS AND RECOMMENDS TO THIS COMMISSION A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL TO CITY COUNCIL WITH NO CONDITIONS.
LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ONE, MR. CHINOOK? WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAIL, YOU, YOU SAID THAT, UM, THERE'S RECOMMENDATION WITH 11 CONDITIONS.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU SPEAK JUST, UH, WE DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO GO TO EVERY ONE OF THEM.
AND CAN YOU TALK TO WHAT'S IN OUR PURVIEW VERSUS HISTORICAL? BECAUSE THAT'S HISTORICAL IN NATURE.
SO YOUR PURVIEW IN THIS CASE IS REALLY THE REZONING.
UH, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD, UH, WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR LOOKING AT TRAFFIC, PARKING, ARCHITECTURE, SITE PLAN, UH, BUT GENERALLY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE, UH, UM, CONDITIONS ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE, UH, DETAILS.
UM, ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS, UH, SOME FINAL REFINEMENTS AND SO FORTH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. GARVIN? THIS MAY ALSO BE A NEEDLESS ONE.
I'M SURE IT IS, BUT, UH, JUST TO CLARIFY, WE'RE NOT REZONING THOSE ENTIRE PARCELS, JUST THE HIGHLIGHTED SECTION.
THE REMAINDER WOULD BE HISTORIC DISTRICT PARK? THAT IS CORRECT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF MR. WAY? CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE ZONING SLIDE? I JUST WANT TO, JUST TO MAKE SURE THE RECORD'S CLEAR.
UM, I THINK YOU HAD HCP HISTORIC PUBLIC.
THE, THE, THE PROPOSED ZONING.
IS IT THE NEXT ONE? IT IT IS IT H OKAY.
HDHP, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE CALLING OUT? YEAH.
IS THAT THE RIGHT, IS THAT THE, IT'S HDHP OR IS IT SHOULD BE HC IS IT SAYS OVER HERE ON THE LEFT.
YOU, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT SHOULD BE.
AND ON THE AGENDA IT DOES HAVE IT CORRECT.
I JUST, BECAUSE THIS DOCUMENT'S IN THE RECORD, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, SORRY.
THAT WASN'T A COMMA, BUT I STILL WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MOVING ON TO DELIBERATION.
OUR PURVIEW HERE IS PRETTY SLIM CUT AND DRY, BUT LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY DELIBERATION ANYONE WANTS TO ARTICULATE, IT'S COOL PRODUCT.
SO LOOKING FORWARD TO ESPECIALLY THE, THE MIX OF USE THE BUSINESS DURING THE DAY AND, AND, UM, FO UH, FOSTERING PUBLIC ART DURING THE EVENINGS, WEEKENDS.
WITH THAT, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REZONING TO CITY COUNCIL.
UH, MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
[COMMUNICATIONS]
YOU HAVE ANY COMMUNICATIONS FOR THIS EVENING? I DO HAVE ONE TRAINING ITEM.UM, I JUST HAVE TWO RELATED TO YOUR SCHEDULE.
SO NEXT WEEK IS OUR JOINT WORK SESSION ON THE 16TH.
SO I THINK I MENTIONED LAST TIME DINNER AHEAD OF TIME FROM FIVE 30 TO SIX.
THE MEETING OFFICIALLY STARTS AT SIX, SO
[01:40:01]
IT'LL BE HERE.AND THEN OUR NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING IS THAT NOVEMBER 7TH.
AND FOR THE COMMISSION, I AM TRAVELING IN FROM NASHVILLE NEXT WEDNESDAY, SO I HAVE TO BE HERE.
I'M PRESENTING AT THAT JOINT MEETING.
BUT IF, IF YOU START TO GET NERVOUS, I WILL PROBABLY BE TEXTING YOU VOICE TO TEXT AS I'M DRIVING.
JUST MAKE SURE YOU'RE UPDATED WITH PROGRESS IN ETA.
UH, WE DISCUSSED IN OUR EXECUTIVE MEETING WITH CITY COUNCIL AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE, UH, ADDITIONAL MINOR TRAINING, UH, SHOULD TIME PERMIT.
AND SO I VOLUNTEERED TO GO FIRST AND ACTUALLY, UH, BASSAM, YOU HAD A SLIDE THAT'S THE SAME ONE THAT I HAVE IN MY TRAINING.
THAT IS THE, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD PLAN FOR THE MIXED USE VILLAGE.
COULD I HAVE YOU PRESENT THAT? BECAUSE I WAS GONNA SPEAK TO IT, BUT IF WE HAVE A VISUAL, ALL THE BETTER.
UH, AND, AND SO WHAT I DISCUSSED WITH CITY COUNCIL, OUR CITY COUNCIL LIAISON WAS TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, OBJECTIVE VERSUS SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS.
AND WE'RE NOT GONNA TALK SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS, WE'RE JUST GONNA TALK KIND OF THE DEFINITION OF THOSE TERMS AND THAT THEY APPLY IN ALL, THEY APPLY IN CONCEPT PLAN ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT.
AND SO I FOUND, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE ON OUR WEBSITE, WE SAY THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HEARS APPLICATIONS FOR LAND USE ZONING CLASSIFICATIONS OR DISTRICTS, AND AS MERITED TO SUBMIT WRITTEN RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION.
THAT'S OUR REZONING, UH, OR TO RENDER FINAL DETERMINATIONS FOR ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS.
INITIATES REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDS LEGISLATION.
AGAIN, RULES AND REGULATIONS ON ALL MATTERS OF MUNICIPAL PLANNING, LAND USE, ZONING CLASSIFICATIONS AND EXERCISES, SUCH OTHER POWERS AND DUTIES AND FUNCTIONS PROVIDED BY COUNCIL.
UH, I FOUND INTERESTING ON CALIFORNIA HAD THIS SENATE BILL PASSED A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO WHERE DIFFERENT CITIES WERE DENYING MULTIFAMILY, UM, HOUSING.
AND THE STATE FINALLY HAD TO STEP IN SAYING, HEY, THE WHOLE STATE HAS A, A HOUSING SHORTAGE.
SO INDIVIDUAL CITIES, YOU GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU'RE DENYING THESE APPLICATIONS, THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO PROVE IT.
SO CALL OUT THE OBJECTIVE AND THE SUBJECTIVE READING OF YOUR OWN CODE WHEN YOU MAKE THESE DETERMINATIONS.
AND SO I LIKED THE WAY THAT THEY DEFINED IT BECAUSE THEY SAID, UH, AND THIS ONE CAME FROM OAKLAND, BUT ALMOST ALL OF THE CITIES PASSED SOMETHING THAT SOUNDED JUST LIKE THIS.
DESIGN STANDARDS ARE OBJECTIVE.
IF THEY ARE MEASURABLE, VERIFIABLE.
AND I ESPECIALLY LIKE THIS PART KNOWABLE TO ALL PARTIES PRIOR TO PROJECT SUBMIT.
SO I PICKED THIS PARTICULAR FUTURE LAND USE MIXED USE VILLAGE BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME MEASURABLE, THERE ARE SOME VERIFIABLE, THERE ARE SOME KNOWN IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING, BUT THERE ARE ALSO SOME SUBJECTIVE.
SO IN THIS, OUR OBJECTIVE WOULD BE ONE TO ONE AND A HALF UNIT FAR FLOOR AREA RATIO.
HOW DO WE MEASURE IT? WE HAVE TO OF COURSE, ARTICULATE HOW WE MEASURE THAT, BUT HOW DO WE MEASURE IT? DOES THE APPLICATION FALL WITHIN THOSE BOUNDS THAT'S OBJECTIVE.
AND THEN IN STREETSCAPE WE SAY PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY WITH SMALLER BLOCKS AND SIDEWALKS SMALLER IS NOT REALLY MEASURABLE.
SMALLER SMALLER THAN WHAT? SMALLER THAN, UH, ANOTHER ZONE, SMALLER THAN ITS NEIGHBORS.
SMALLER THAN, THAT'S OUR SUBJECTIVE.
AND SO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HAS A LOT OF LATITUDE WHEN IT COMES TO THE SUBJECTIVE DETAILS WHEN IT COMES TO OBJECTIVITY.
AND THE CODE SAYS YOU NEED TO BE BETWEEN X AND Y.
AND EITHER WE SAY NO BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT, OR HEY, IT'S WITHIN THAT.
BUT I THINK THEN THAT IS WHERE WHAT WE KIND OF, UH, OPEN UP OPPORTUNITIES.
SO MR. BOGGS, THIS IS WHERE I WOULD ASK YOU TO CONTRIBUTE ON, UH, EITHER CLARIFYING OR, UH, ADDING COLOR TO OBJECTIVITY VERSUS SUBJECTIVITY WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING THAT MAY COME ACROSS YOUR DESK RATHER THAN OURS.
WELL, I THINK THAT I, I APPRECIATE THIS CONVERSATION.
UM, I THINK THAT THAT IS WHY WHEN WE DO TRAININGS, A LOT OF WHAT WE TALK ABOUT IS BEING CLEAR ABOUT THE CRITERIA THAT YOU'RE LINKING YOUR COMMENTS BACK TO.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, A COMMENT WHICH,
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WHICH HISTORICALLY HAS HAPPENED IS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS MEETS CODE, BUT WE WANT MORE.UM, YOU KNOW, IS, IS NOT A HELPFUL COMMENT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF DEFENDING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
UM, IT MAY BE THE CASE THAT A, AN APPLICATION MEETS CODE WITH RESPECT TO CERTAIN CRITERIA, WHETHER THAT BE A PARKING RATIO OR THIS OR FLOOR AREA RATIO IN THIS EXAMPLE.
UH, BUT THE REASON THAT APPLICATIONS COME BEFORE A BODY LIKE THIS IS BECAUSE THERE IS DISCRETION, UH, WITH RESPECT TO CERTAIN CRITERIA THAT DON'T LEND THEMSELVES TO, UM, BLACK AND WHITE OBJECTIVITY.
AND SO WHAT I ENCOURAGE AND, AND REITERATE, UH, FOR PURPOSES OF THIS TYPE OF CONVERSATION IS THAT WHEN THE COMMISSION IS, IS HEARING AN APPLICATION, AND IN DELIBERATION ESPECIALLY, UH, THAT ARTICULATING ON THE RECORD WHAT CRITERION IN THE CODE YOUR COMMENTS RELATE TO, REALLY HELPS US TO CONNECT THOSE DOTS BACK FOR A COURT IF WE NEED TO.
AND, AND MANY TIMES THAT INCORPORATES AN OBJECTIVE AND A SUBJECTIVE DETAIL.
SO FOR INSTANCE, IF WE SEE AN APPLICATION AND IT FALLS WITHIN THE DENSITY DENSITY SAYS ONE TO ONE AND A HALF UNITS PER ACRE, AND WE SAY, LET'S DO SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT'S MORE LIKE WHAT WE SEE.
LET'S SAY IT'S SAY THREE TO SIX UNITS PER ACRE AND THE APPLICATION COMES FORWARD AND THEY'RE SITTING AT FIVE AND A HALF, BUT THEY HAVE NO BENEFICIAL OPEN SPACE, THEY HAVE NO UTILIZATION OF EXISTING, YOU KNOW, UH, TREE STANDS OR ANYTHING THAT, THAT ARE COMMON WITHIN THE CITY OF DUBLIN.
UH, THEY HAVE, UH, STREETS THAT MEET THE MINIMUM, BUT NO MORE.
THEY HAVE, UH, PRIVATE AREAS, PUBLIC AREAS, WHATEVER WE WANNA CALL OUT.
THE DENSITY ITSELF COUPLED WITH HERE, UH, IF WE SAY, HEY, DENSITY IS FALLS WITHIN THAT 1.4, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THE APPLICATION IS SITTING AT 1.4, HOWEVER, THE STREET SCAPES DON'T INCORPORATE PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY.
THEY DON'T INCORPORATE SMALLER BLOCKS AND SIDEWALKS.
THE DENSITY WORKS, BUT THOSE SMALLER BLOCKS, IT'S, IT'S ONE HUGE BLOCK.
AND SO THE COUPLING OF THOSE TWO TOGETHER, IT'S NOT THAT EVERY OBJECTIVE DETAIL STANDS ON ITS OWN AND IS COMPLETELY EXCLUSIVE FROM ALL OF THE OTHER OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE DETAILS.
THE WHOLE, WE'RE NOT VOTING ON THE DENSITY OF AN APPLICATION, WE'RE VOTING ON AN APPLICATION.
AND SO IF WE ARTICULATE THAT ONE AREA MEETS, AND YET WE'RE SAYING NO TO THE APPLICATION, THE REQUEST THAT I HEARD MR. BOGG SAY IS ARTICULATE, TYING BACK TO THE CODE, TYING BACK TO THE AREA PLAN, TYING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY PLAN, WHY IT IS THAT IT CAN MEET X, Y, OR Z, BUT STILL NOT MEET A SUBJECTIVE OR OBJECTIVE DETAIL.
THAT WAS A LITTLE MORE PREACHY THAN I WANTED IT TO BE.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT WE DO, AND I, I THINK I ARTICULATED THIS, I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN IT COULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS MEETING, IT COULD HAVE BEEN IN A DIFFERENT MEETING, BUT IF EVERYTHING WERE OBJECTIVE AND EVERYTHING WERE BLACK AND WHITE AND EVERYTHING WAS JUST A MATRIX OF DOES IT MEET, DOES IT MEET, DOES IT MEET, WE WOULDN'T NEED TO SIT IN THESE CHAIRS.
IT IS BECAUSE THINGS GET GRAY.
IT IS BECAUSE OF THE COMPILATION OF ALL OF THE OBJECTIVE IN THE SUBJECTIVE DETAILS THAT IT REQUIRES BODIES IN THE SEATS AND NOT A COMPUTER ON A SCREEN.
THIS IS A LABOR OF LOVE, RIGHT? YOU GIVE UP A LOT OF TIME, A LOT OF TIME AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILIES, UH, YOUR OTHER ACTIVITIES.
I'M SURE THAT EVERYONE HAS HOBBIES THAT ARE MORE SCINTILLATING THAN, THAN SITTING IN A ROOM, ALTHOUGH WE LOVE BEING WITH YOU STAFF.
UH, BUT WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE TIME AND THE ENERGY AND THE SACRIFICE THAT YOU PUT IN MAKING DUBLIN THE, THE COMMUNITY THAT WE ALL CALL HOME.
AND I, I DON'T WANT TO OVERLY EXTEND OUR MEETING, BUT I DO WANT TO REITERATE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER FROM, YOU KNOW, LEGAL DEPARTMENT, UH, PERSPECTIVE, STAFF PERSPECTIVE, COUNSEL PERSPECTIVE, THE OBJECTIVE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU AS A COMMISSION AND AS INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONERS HAVE ALL THE TOOLS YOU NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS YOU, YOU MAKE AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS YOU MAKE, UM, AND THAT THEY CAN BE DEFENDED AT THE END OF THE DAY.
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UH, THAT'S NOT SO MUCH THE IMPORTANCE OF HOW YOU DEC DECIDE OF WHAT YOU DECIDE, BUT HOW IT'S DECIDED.AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ALL THOSE TOOLS AVAILABLE TO YOU.
SO IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT COMES TO MIND THAT, UH, IS, YOU KNOW, A NAGGING THOUGHT OF, WOW, I WISH I REALLY HAD THIS, OR I HAD THIS QUESTION AND IT WASN'T REALLY ANSWERED, PLEASE DO REACH OUT AND WE'LL ANSWER IT AND I APOLOGIZE.
I'LL, I'LL EXTEND JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE.
PLEASE KNOW, ESPECIALLY IF YOU SEE AN APPLICATION THAT JUST DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT OR ABSOLUTELY FEELS RIGHT, AND YET THE CODE, YOUR RESOURCES LEAD YOU TO NEED TO MAKE A DIFFERENT DECISION, PLEASE BRING THAT UP.
UM, A CASE IN POINT THAT WE AS A COMMISSION, I THINK IT WAS LIKE THREE YEARS AGO, SETBACKS, WE CONSTANTLY SAW THESE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES COMING IN AND THEY MET THE CODE, CODE SAID SIX FOOT SETBACK PERIOD.
AND WE KEPT SEEING THESE APPLICATIONS COME THROUGH.
THEY MET THE CODE, BUT THE BUILT PRODUCT WASN'T WHAT WE EXPECTED.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T PASS CODE, THAT'S A LEGISLATIVE ACTION THAT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL.
BUT THE COMMISSION MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL WHO ULTIMATELY, ULTIMATELY PASSED A CODE REVISION THAT SAID, HEY, A SIX FOOT SETBACK, BUT YOU MUST HAVE 14 BETWEEN HOUSES.
BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT EVERY SETBACK TO BE SIX FEET.
WE WANTED MORE THAN THAT, BUT SIX FEET WAS ACCEPTABLE IN SOME CASES.
AND SO THAT PASSED, IF YOU SEE THINGS THAT COME UP THAT, THAT, HEY, THE CODE SAYS IT MEETS CODE, BUT OH, IT REALLY FEELS LIKE IT SHOULDN'T, PLEASE BRING THAT UP TO THE COMMISSION OR TO STAFF OR TO LEGAL ONE AVENUE AND AND WE'LL GET IT TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO.
I HAVE A GRAY AREA OF QUESTION BECAUSE
THERE ARE SO MANY UNDERLYING ASSUMPTIONS THAT CODE DOESN'T SAY IT, BUT WHY CERTAIN BUILDING TYPES ARE RECOMMENDED IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS, THE CODE DOESN'T SAY IT, BUT IT'S A NATURE OF THE CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING TYPE THAT REINFORCES THE ACTIVITY, BUT THE CODE DOESN'T SAY IT.
SO IT'S BASED ON A QUASI PROFESSIONAL INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE INTENT IS.
SO HOW, HOW, AND, AND OUR CODE, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE DILEMMAS WITH THAT CODE IS THERE IS SO MUCH OF THAT AND IT'S FORM-BASED CODE.
IT'S, UM, AND THE BACKGROUND FOR THAT SHOULD BE HUGE WHEN YOU LOOK AT OTHER COMMUNITIES.
SO HOW, HOW DOES THAT WORK IF YOU MAKE A DECISION BASED ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE THE INTENT OF THE CODE IS, IS THAT CONSIDERED A CODE SUPPORTED? WELL, THE, THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT CODE HAS PRETTY EXTENSIVE LIST OF PURPOSES AND INTENTS AND LAYING OUT THE GOALS THAT IT'S TRYING TO ACHIEVE, BOTH, UH, WRIT LARGE AND ON A NEIGHBORHOOD BY NEIGHBORHOOD BASIS.
I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE WHERE, WHERE I, I WOULD DISAGREE SLIGHTLY, BUT, UM, BUT LET'S, LET'S NOT GO THERE, JUST MAKE IT SHORT.
SO YOU'RE SAYING IF IT'S NOT LITERALLY IN THE CODE, IF YOU'RE INTERPRETING FROM A PROFESSIONAL POINT OF VIEW, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
IT NEEDS TO BE LITERALLY IN THE CODE THERE.
YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO TIE IT BACK TO A CODE INTENTION, CODE INTENTION, OKAY? THAT THAT IS STATED.
YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE PURPOSES AND INTENSE LAID OUT, YOU KNOW, WALKABLE URBANISM.
NOW WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? YOU'RE COMING TO IT WITH A PERSPECTIVE.
YOU WERE APPOINTED BECAUSE OF A BACKGROUND THAT COUNCIL FELT DEEMED YOU A, A GOOD ASSET TO THIS COMMISSION.
AND SO WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO LEAVE YOUR, UM, PERSPECTIVE, YOUR KNOWLEDGE AT THE DOOR, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE APPLIED IN SERVICE OF THE VISION THAT IS LAID OUT IN THE CODE.
BECAUSE A RECENT CONVERSATION WE ALL HAD WAS A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF WHAT STREETSCAPE AND ENHANCING THE STREETSCAPE AND HOW THE BUILDING TYPE, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE CODE AND THE BUILDING TYPE THAT SPECIFIED ACTUALLY DOES IT BECAUSE THE NATURE OF THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING TYPE, BUT WE HAD DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF PEDESTRIAN ENVIRONMENT ADDRESSING THE STREETSCAPE.
UM, I I WOULD SAY THAT WHERE THERE IS GRAY AREA AND I, THERE IS PLENTY OF GRAY AREA, THAT'S WHY THERE'S SEVEN PEOPLE ON THIS COMMISSION WHERE THERE'S GRAY AREA, THERE IS ROOM FOR THAT INTERPRETATION BASED ON YOUR BACKGROUNDS, UM, TO BE ARTICULATED IN THE RECORD BECAUSE WE CAN PULL FROM THAT AND, AND USE THAT TO DEFEND THE DECISION THAT THE COMMISSION MAKES.
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UM, IF IT'S AN EXAMPLE WHERE THE CODE SAYS THAT THESE FOUR BUILDING TYPES ARE APPROPRIATE HERE, UH, BUT YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION SAYS, WELL, THIS FIFTH BUILDING TYPE WOULD BE MUCH BETTER TO SERVE THE PURPOSES SET FORTH FOR THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT WOULD BE A BRIDGE TOO FAR.YEAH, AND I GET THAT, AND YOU'VE SORT OF ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
ESSENTIALLY, DO WHAT YOU THINK'S, RIGHT? IF IT'S, IF IT'S, IF YOU CAN SUPPORT IT RELATIVE TO THE, WITHIN THE, AND IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, ASK STAFF, STAFF IS EXCELLENT AT GUIDING AND HELPING AND WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW, WE DON'T LIVE AND BREATHE THIS 40 HOURS A DAY, SORRY, 40 HOURS A WEEK.
SOMETIMES WE DO, DEPENDS ON THE, THE WEEK.
AND SO IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS, IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITY TO TIE SOMETHING BACK TO THE CODE, IF YOU KNOW A PD, WE DON'T SEE VERY MANY OF THOSE ANYMORE.
THOSE WE SAW MANY, MANY OF THEM.
BUT PUD, YOU'RE WRITING THE CODE, THAT'S WHAT A PUD IS.
AND SO THERE'S GREAT LATITUDE WHEN DRAFTING THAT DEVELOPMENT TEXT BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTUALLY WRITING THE STANDARDS BY WHICH THE FUTURE APPLICATION WILL NEED TO ABIDE.
BUT DIFFERENT STAGES HAVE DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES.
TONIGHT WE SAW A CONCEPT PLAN, YOU HEARD THE DISCUSSION, AND STAFF DOES A GREAT JOB AT PROVIDING KIND OF THOSE QUESTIONS, THOSE LAYOUTS, UM, UH, AND TAILOR US OR HEARD US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
SO FOR THAT, WE, WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR OBJECTIVITY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME.