* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] OKAY. YEP. ALRIGHT. GOOD [CALL TO ORDER] EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD MEETING, UM, FOR ANYONE LIVE STREAMING. THIS MEETING'S BEING HELD AT 5 5 5 5 PERIMETER DRIVE IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN. COUNCIL CHAMBERS. THE MEETING CAN BE ACCESSED THROUGH THE LIVE VIA LIVE LIVESTREAM THROUGH THE CITY'S WEBSITE. UM, WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THE CASES. UH, THE MEETING PROCEDURE FOR OUR ONLY CASE THIS EVENING WILL BEGIN WITH A STAFF REPORT, UH, FOLLOWED BY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO MAKE A PRESENTATION. THE BOARD WILL THEN ASK CLARIFYING COMMENTS FIRST TO THE STAFF, THEN THE APPLICANT. UM, WE WILL THEN SEE IF THERE ARE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED EITHER FROM THE PODIUM OR ELECTRONICALLY. UM, EACH SPEAKER BEFORE YOU ADDRESS THE BOARD NEEDS TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF AT THE PODIUM, YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, UM, FOLLOWING PUBLIC COMMENTS. WE'LL DELIBERATE ON THE CASE AND RENDER DECISION. UH, WE BEGIN OUR MEETINGS WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. SO IF EVERYONE WOULD STAND, JUDY, WOULD YOU CALL THE ROLL PLEASE? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? HERE. MS. COOPER? HERE. MR. JEWEL? HERE. MS. DAMER HERE. AND MR. KOTTER IS EXCUSED. OKAY, THANK YOU. IS THERE A MOTION [ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS and APPROVAL OF MINUTES] TO ACCEPT THE DOCUMENTS INTO THE RECORD AND APPROVE THE, OUR MEETING MINUTES FROM THE DECEMBER 13TH MEETING OF LAST YEAR? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE DOCUMENTS. OKAY. SECOND? SURE. MARTY. OKAY. I'M SORRY. MS. DAMER? YES. MR. JEWEL? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. MS. COOPER? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. OKAY. OUR BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE REVIEW OF CONSTRUCTION MODIFICATIONS OR ALTERATIONS TO ANY SITE IN THE AREA SUBJECT TO ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW UNDER PROVISIONS OF THE ZONING CODE SECTION 1 5 3 0.170. THIS BOARD HAS A DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY ON THESE CASES, SO ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO ADDRESS US THIS EVENING MUST BE SWORN IN. SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADDRESS US, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY THIS EVENING? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THERE WERE, UM, JUST SO IT'S ON THE RECORD, UH, THERE ARE TWO CASES, CASE 23, 1, 31, AND 1 32. RIVERVIEW VILLAGE. WERE POSTPONED AT THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT. THEY WILL NOT BE HEARD TONIGHT. UM, SO WE'RE [Case #23-129ARB-INF & Case #23-130ARB-INF] LOOKING AT CASE NUMBER 23, UM, 1 29 A RB 17 NORTH RIVERVIEW STREET, INFORMAL REVIEW. AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE GONNA, UM, ALSO CONSIDER, UH, THE CASE FOR 27 NORTH RIVERVIEW STREET. WHENEVER YOU'RE READY. THANK YOU MR. ALEXANDER AND GOOD EVENING BOARD MEMBERS. UH, WE ARE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT BOTH ADDRESSES TOGETHER TONIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE SO CLOSELY RELATED. AND OF COURSE AT MINOR PROJECT THEY'LL BE SPLIT APART FOR YOU. SO THE PROJECT LOCATION IS NORTH OF BRIDGE STREET. IT'S BETWEEN NORTH BLACKSMITH LANE AND NORTH RIVERVIEW. AND IT'S OUTLINED IN YELLOW HERE ON THE MAP. THE, IT IS ADJACENT TO THE ATCH OR THE RIVERVIEW VILLAGE PROJECT, WHICH WAS JUST RECENTLY POSTPONED. WE UNDERSTAND, ALTHOUGH WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS YET, THAT THEY ARE LOOKING TO SCALE BACK THE ADDITIONS TO SOME OF THE HOUSES. UM, IT'S ALSO, THIS PROJECT IS ALSO NEARBY THE 1622 NORTH HIGH STREET PROJECT, WHICH IS ALSO WORKING ON ADDRESSING THE BOARD'S COMMENTS AND WORKING WITH SCALE AND MASSING FROM LAST TIME THEY WERE HERE. THIS SLIDE HERE SHOWS SOME OF THE EXISTING CONTEXT, AND AGAIN, THE PROJECT SITE IS IN YELLOW. THE HOUSES ARE SOUTH OF WING HILL AND THESE WERE AUCTIONED OFF LAST YEAR. THE INDIVIDUAL OWNERS, IT WAS NO LONGER DESIRED FOR THE RIVERVIEW VILLAGE PROJECT THAT KATCH IS DOING TO THE NORTH OF WING HILL. SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A NUMBER OF THINGS [00:05:01] THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT TONIGHT. UH, THE FIRST IS THAT THE OUTBUILDINGS PICTURED AS ONE AND TWO WOULD BE DEMOLISHED. THESE ARE BACKGROUND BUILDINGS USING OUR NEW TERMINOLOGY AND HOUSES THREE AND FOUR HERE ARE PROVIDED FOR CONTEXT. NUMBER THREE IS WITHIN RIVERVIEW VILLAGE AND FOUR IS UNDER SEPARATE PRIVATE OWNERSHIP. TAKING A LOOK AT THESE PARTICULAR PROPERTIES IN MORE DETAIL. NUMBER 17 IS SHOWN ON THE LEFT. IT'S A CRAFTSMAN STYLE COTTAGE, VERY TYPICAL OF THE 1920S. AND IT HAS LANDMARK STATUS. NUMBER 27 IS SHOWN ON THE RIGHT. IT'S A GABLE L IT'S A BIT OF A PRINCESS ANN, IF YOU WILL, WITH A SPINDLED PORCH. DETAILS SLIGHTLY GD WINDOW LENTILS. AND IT IS TYPICAL OF ITS ERA ABOUT 1890. AND IT IS ALSO A LANDMARK BUILDING. THESE ARE VIEWS ALONG NORTH RIVERVIEW, UH, BOTH LOOKING NORTH AND SOUTH. AND THIS SHOWS THE SCALE, THE SETBACKS IN THE OVERALL CHARACTER OF THIS AREA. AND THEN LOOKING TO THE REAR OF THE BUILDINGS ALONG NORTH BLACKSMITH. UM, THIS IS A VERY TYPICAL VIEW AND AGAIN, SHOWS THE TWO OUTBUILDINGS THAT WE WILL ASK ABOUT. DEMOLITION OF THIS VIEW SHOWS AERIAL MASSING OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT. UH, NORTH IS TO THE RIGHT IN THIS VIEW. THE PROJECT AREA IS OUTLINED IN ORANGE FOR YOU AND THE HISTORIC HOMES ARE SHOWN IN WHITE WITH THE PROPOSED ADDITIONS IN GRAY. THIS HONES IN A LITTLE BIT CLOSER AND, UM, THIS IS A MORE SPECIFIC SITE LAYOUT THIS TIME WITH NORTH FACING UP. THE ORIGINAL HOUSES ARE IN YELLOW AND THE ADDITIONS ARE IN WHITE. SOME ITEMS THAT I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT INCLUDE THE LOCATIONS OF THE OUTBUILDINGS, AND THE BOARD IS ASKED TO COMMENT ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR DEMOLITION OF THOSE STRUCTURES. HERE WE SEE THE 15 FOOT HIGHWAY EASEMENT THAT'S, UH, MEANT FOR SIDEWALKS, ROAD IMPROVEMENTS, THAT SORT OF THING. UM, NO IMPROVEMENTS OR PRIVATE PARKING ARE PERMITTED WITHIN THAT EASEMENT. HERE WE SEE THE POTENTIAL RELOCATION OF NUMBER 27. IT HAS A SLIGHT ENCROACHMENT ON THE SOUTH SIDE SETBACK, WHICH IS A LEGAL NON-CONFORMING ISSUE RIGHT NOW. SO IT IS PERFECTLY FINE TO STAY. THE APPLICANT IS THINKING OF REALIGNING THE HOUSE AND BUILDING A NEW FOUNDATION UNDERNEATH IT. UM, SO THE BOARD IS ASKED TO COMMENT ON THAT STAFF NOTES THAT THE HOUSES REALLY KIND OF FOLLOW THAT GENTLE CURVE OF NORTH RIVERVIEW RIGHT NOW. SO THAT IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. STAFF HAS PROVIDED DRIVEWAY REQUIREMENTS TO THE APPLICANT, UH, THAT WILL NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AT THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW. RIGHT NOW, THE DRIVEWAYS AS SHOWN ARE NON-COMPLIANT. AND IF WE CAN REMOVE THE, UM, THE CASE IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SLIDE PLEASE. I WANNA GO OVER THE SYNOPSIS OF THE WAIVER AND VARIANCE REQUESTS THAT ARE, UM, A PART OF THESE TWO APPLICATIONS. RIGHT NOW. THE LOT SIZE INFORMATION VARIES, HENCE THE RANGE THAT'S GIVEN IN THIS TABLE. THE APPLICANT WILL NEED TO PROVIDE A SURVEY AT THE NEXT STAGE AND BEFORE GOING TO BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS SO THAT WE HAVE ACTUAL INFORMATION. UM, AND AGAIN, IF WE CAN, UM, REMOVE THAT CASE NUMBER INFORMATION SO THAT THIS TABLE IS FULLY VISIBLE, I'M REQUESTING OUR SWAG AT FRIENDS TO DO THAT. THIS IS COLOR CODED TO INDICATE IN GREEN, UH, THOSE, OR THAT ONE INSTANCE IS WITHIN THE BOARD'S PURVIEW OF A 20% WAIVER. THE AREAS IN RED ARE WITHIN THE B Z'S PURVIEW FOR A VARIANCE. SO THAT'S A SEPARATE APPLICATION [00:10:01] PROCESS BEFORE A SEPARATE BOARD NUMBER 20 SEVEN'S LOT COVERAGE DOESN'T NEED EITHER. SO GOING THROUGH THESE INDIVIDUAL REQUESTS, NUMBER 17 IS LOOKING FOR THE LOT COVERAGE WAIVER, THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT VARIANCE, AND A REAR SETBACK VARIANCE. NUMBER 27 IS REQUESTING A BUILDING FOOTPRINT VARIANCE AND A REAR SETBACK VARIANCE. IN TALKING WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE A RB HAS OBVIOUSLY THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY FOR APPROVAL OF THE MINOR PROJECT REQUEST. THE BZA REQUIREMENTS FOR THE VARIANCES WILL NEED TO BE MET AND WILL NEED TO STAND ON THEIR OWN MERITS ACCORDING TO THOSE CRITERIA. UH, THAT APPROVAL SHOULD COME PRIOR TO SUBMITTAL OF THE MINOR PROJECTS. SO YOU AS A BOARD WOULD KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WORKING WITH RELATIVE TO THESE VARIANCE REQUESTS OUTLINED IN THE, IN THE RED OR THE PINK. UM, AND WE'RE ASKING YOUR THOUGHTS TONIGHT SO THAT YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT WAIVERS AND VARIANCES CAN BE ON THE RECORD THAT WOULD BE SUPPLIED TO THE BZA IN THEIR BACKGROUND MATERIALS. WE'VE RECEIVED NUMEROUS LETTERS IN SUPPORT OF THE PROPOSALS, UM, INCLUDING THE SIZE AND THE MASSING OF THE, THE HOUSES THERE WERE SIX AND ALL. I BELIEVE THOSE WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKETS. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT IN 2021 CITY COUNCIL DID APPROVE CHANGES TO THE CODE THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY USING, UM, THAT ADDRESS THE OVERLY LARGE HOUSES THAT WERE STARTING TO APPEAR IN VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOODS WITHIN THE DISTRICT. SO THAT CODE APPLIES TONIGHT. ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO SOME OF THE MASSING AND THE, UH, MODELING THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT. THIS SHOWS THE MASSING FOR 17 NORTH RIVER VIEW ALONG THE FRONT AND SIDE FACADES. AND IT AS IN THE PLAN VIEW, THE YELLOW IS EXISTING AND THE WHITE AND THE GRAY ARE PROPOSED. AND AGAIN, THE BOARDS REQUESTED TO COMMENT ON SIZE, MASSING AND NEIGHBORHOOD CONTEXT. THIS IS THE MASSING FOR NUMBER 17 AT THE REAR. AND THE SIDE, UH, STAFF DOES HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE VIEW AND THE STREET CHARACTER ALONG NORTH BLACKSMITH AND THE CONTINUAL GARAGE SCAPE AND HOW THAT CAN BE MITIGATED. THIS IS NUMBER 27, AGAIN WITH THE YELLOW EXISTING AND THE GRAY AND WHITE AS NEW AND THE REAR OF NUMBER 27, LOOKING BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH. AND THEN TAKING A BROADER VIEW, THIS IS A AXONOMETRIC VIEW FROM NORTH HIGH STREET LOOKING EAST. THE PROPOSED BUILDINGS ARE DARK GRAY AT THE REAR, AND THEN THE NEARBY PROJECTS ARE CALLED OUT FOR REFERENCE. AND THEN THIS IS THE SIMILAR VIEW JUST LOOKING FROM THE WEST OR PERHAPS IF YOU WERE, UM, ABOVE THE RIVER. UM, AGAIN, EXISTING BUILDINGS IN YELLOW, ADDITIONS IN GRAY AND WHITE. SO FOR YOUR COMMENTS TONIGHT, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE COMMENT ON EACH PROJECT INDIVIDUALLY IF YOU HAVE DIFFERING COMMENTS. UM, BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT THE BOARD SUPPORTS THE DEMOLITION OF THE OUTBUILDINGS AND OR THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT CHARACTER ALONG BLACKSMITH LANE. LOOKING AT SUPPORT FOR THE WAIVERS, COVERAGE BUILDING FOOTPRINT AND REAR SETBACKS, INCLUDING THOSE GREATER THAN 20%, MEANING THOSE THAT GO TO THE BZA. UH, NUMBER THREE IS DOES THE BOARD SUPPORT THE MASS AND SCALE OF THE ADDITIONS AND THEIR RESPONSE TO THE GUIDELINES? AND DOES THE BOARD WISH TO COMMENT ON MOVING NUMBER 27? AND THEN ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS BY THE BOARD? AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. UH, THE APPLICANT IS HERE TONIGHT AND HAS A PRESENTATION AS, AS WELL. I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THIS TIME. GOOD FOR NOW. I I HAVE JUST, UM, [00:15:01] TWO CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY PLANS TO WORK IN THE AREA THAT'S CURRENTLY PART OF THE EASEMENT IN THE ALLEY? BECAUSE THAT EASEMENT THE BUILDINGS, THE EXISTING BUILDING'S ENCROACHED INTO THAT EASEMENT. AND SO I'M WONDERING, WITH ALL THE WORK THAT'S GOING ON, IS THERE UTILITY WORK OR OTHER THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO OCCUR IN THAT EASEMENT? WE CAN EXPECT THINGS LIKE UTILITIES, SIDEWALKS, PERHAPS CURB AND GUTTER. UM, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THE TRANS, THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY RIGHT NOW WHERE THAT ENTIRE, UM, TRAFFIC SYSTEM INCLUDING PEDESTRIAN ACCESS IS BEING LOOKED AT. SO YES, WE ARE ABSOLUTELY WANTING TO RESERVE THAT AREA FOR IMPROVEMENTS. SO, SO POTENTIALLY IT MAY NEED TO BE VACATED OF BUILDING SO THAT WORK CAN BE DONE. I'M SORRY. WELL, MY QUESTION WAS IF THOSE BUILDINGS ARE ENCROACHING INTO THE EASEMENT, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS IS THE POTENTIAL FOR DEMOLITION, WOULD THAT DEMOLITION NEED TO OCCUR REGARDLESS BECAUSE OF THE WORK THAT THE CITY'S DOING IN THE EASEMENT? IT'S VERY POSSIBLE. OKAY. AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION WAS THE, YOU MENTIONED THE NON-COMPLIANCE OF THE DRIVEWAYS. NOW YOU'D SAID WE, WE WOULD ADDRESS THAT DEPENDING ON WHAT THE PROPOSAL LOOKS LIKE. IF IT COMES BACK TO US, WE WOULD ADDRESS THAT IN THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW. IS THAT NONCOMPLIANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES OR WITH THE ZONING PROVISION? IT IS NONCOMPLIANCE WITH ENGINEERING STANDARDS. OKAY. SO THIS IS A VERY, UM, OKAY. YEAH, IT'S, IT'S A NON-NEGOTIABLE STANDARD THAT ENGINEERING APPLIES TO ALL. NO, THAT, THAT'S RESIDENTIAL. THAT, THAT'S HELPFUL. OKAY. YEAH. THANKS. UM, MR. TAYLOR, WOULD YOU LIKE TO OR, OR YOUR CLIENTS, WHOEVER'S GONNA MAKE THE PRESENTATION THIS EVENING? OH, YOU NEED TO, THERE'S A BUTTON THERE AND IT'LL, THERE YOU GO. WORKING NOW. OKAY, GREAT. UH, MY NAME IS ANTHONY SARU. I'M A PART OWNER OF 17 AND 27 NORTH RIVERVIEW. UH, FIRST LEMME JUST SAY WE LOVE EXCUSE, EXCUSE ME. THE ONE OTHER THING WE NEED FOR YOUR RECORD, FOR THE RECORD IS YOUR ADDRESS. ADDRESS, EITHER YOUR YEAH. AN ADDRESS. UH, 17 NORTH RIVERVIEW, DUBLIN, OHIO. IS THAT WHERE YOU RESIDE? NO. UH, OKAY. BUSINESS OR PERSONAL? PERSONAL BUSINESS OR PERSONAL. OKAY. 1 0 3 2 9 SAMA ROAD, PAOLO, OHIO. OKAY. 4 3 0 6 5. OKAY, THANKS. OKAY, GREAT. UM, LET ME FIRST SAY BY SAYING WE LOVE TO BE A VERY SMALL PART OF RIVERVIEW VILLAGE AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS NEIGHBORS, FREQUENT VISITORS, AND WOULD BE HONORED TO CONTRIBUTE THROUGH THE RESTORATION OF THOSE TWO HOUSES. UM, WE'RE ALL VERY EXCITED TO SEE THE AREA THRIVE AND GROW RAPIDLY. UH, THIS PART OF THE DISTRICT, UH, HOLDS HISTORY THAT NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED. AND WE WOULD LIKE TO COLLABORATE WITH THE BOARD AND RICH, UH, TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY IN DESIGNING AND RESTORING THOSE TWO HOUSES, UH, WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CRAFTSMANSHIP AND ATTENTION TO DETAIL. UH, WE BELIEVE THAT PRESERVING THE HISTORY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD STARTS BY KEEPING THOSE TWO PLOTS OF LAND AS SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES WHILE BRINGING BEAUTY AND CHARACTER TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND FITTING IN WITH THE SURROUNDINGS. UH, IN THIS CORNER OF THE DISTRICT, UH, OUR GOAL IS TO RESTORE THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, UM, TWO OF THEM AND DELIVER TWO ONE OF A KIND HOUSES THAT FIT TODAY'S STANDARDS AND EXPECTATIONS. UM, AND WITH YOUR HELP AND COLLABORATION AND PASSION, UM, WE HOPE TO CREATE RESULTS THAT WILL BE STRATEGICALLY FITTING IN THE SURROUNDINGS. OUR, OUR HOPE IS TO DO THE JOB RIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL, UH, SO THAT TWO FAMILIES MOVE IN AND BRING THEIR LOVE TO THE AREA FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS TO COME. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COLLABORATION IN ADVANCE. UM, I'LL BE HEADING HANDING THIS OVER TO RICH SO THAT HE CAN GO MORE INTO DETAILS, UH, WITH WHAT WE THINK IS FIT, UM, AND REASONABLE FOR OUR PROJECTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. RICHARD TAYLOR. RICHARD TAYLOR, ARCHITECTS 48 SOUTH HIGH STREET, DUBLIN. UM, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY [00:20:01] FOR THIS INFORMAL REVIEW. THESE ARE ALWAYS A GREAT WAY TO START A PROJECT OFF. UM, WE KNOW WE HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF WORK TO DO ON THIS PROJECT YET, BUT TONIGHT WE HOPE TO HAVE YOUR BLESSING ON THE OVERALL CONCEPT SO THAT WE CAN QUICKLY BRING YOU MORE FULLY DEVELOPED DESIGNS. THIS QUADRANT OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF BRIDGE AND HIGH IS SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL. IT'S GONE THROUGH MORE CHANGE IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THAN ANY OTHER AREA OF THE DISTRICT. THERE ARE MORE COMPLETELY NEW BUILDINGS HERE THAN IN ANY OTHER AREA. MORE BUILDINGS REMOVED AND REPLACED THAN IN ANY OTHER AREA. AND THERE'S MORE CONSTRUCTION GOING ON RIGHT NOW THAN IN ANY OTHER AREA OF THE DISTRICT. ALTHOUGH THESE CHANGES HAVE REDEFINED THIS QUADRANT INTO SOMETHING THAT ISN'T NECESSARILY REFLECTED IN THE CURRENT ZONING CLASSIFICATIONS. THE PARCELS IN BOTH QUADRANTS JUST NORTH OF BRIDGE STREET, ARE ALL ZONED HISTORIC CORE, EXCEPT FOR THE TWO SMALL BLOCKS ALONG NORTH RIVERVIEW STREET. WHEN KATCH RESUMES THEIR, UH, NORTHERN OF THE TWO BLOCKS TO HISTORIC CORE, IT WILL LEAVE THE THREE LOTS TO THE SOUTH AS THE ONLY PROPERTIES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, ZONED HISTORIC CORE. UM, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL USE IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA, BUT IT'S ALL PART OF LARGER MIXED USE OR MULTI-FAMILY PROJECTS AND MORE RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS ARE COMING, INCLUDING THE ONE UNDER CONSTRUCTION AT 38, 36, NO HIGH, JUST NORTHWEST OF OUR LOTS. AND THE ONE THAT'S BEEN PROPOSED, AND AS I UNDERSTAND BEING REWORKED DIRECTLY BEHIND OUR LOTS AT 1622 NORTH HIGH, NO ONE'S SURPRISED THAT MORE HOUSING IS BEING BUILT IN THIS INCREASINGLY VIBRANT, ACTIVE AND DENSELY BUILT AREA OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY WANT TO LIVE HERE, BUT NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO LIVE IN A MULTI-FAMILY PROJECT. WE ARE PROPOSING TO RESTORE AND EXPAND THESE TWO LANDMARK HOMES TO OFFER ANOTHER APPROPRIATE HIGHLY DESIRABLE HOUSING TYPE NOT AVAILABLE ON THIS SIDE OF BRIDGE STREET TO COMPLIMENT THE MULTIFAMILY PROJECTS ALREADY HERE. THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL ZONING, HOWEVER, DON'T ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THOSE RESTRICTIONS WERE WRITTEN FOR USE IN AREAS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WHERE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND YARDS ARE THE NORM, NOT THE EXCEPTION AS THEY ARE HERE. WE SEE TWO WAYS TO GET AROUND THOSE RESTRICTIONS. WE COULD REZONE TO HISTORIC CORE OR WE COULD KEEP THE HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL ZONING AND ACQUIRE SEVERAL VARIANCES FROM THE A RB AND THE BZA. WE DON'T THINK REZONING THE HISTORIC CORE IS A GOOD OPTION FOR SEVERAL REASONS. REZONING IS A TIME CONSUMING AND A PROCESS, IT'S EXPENSIVE. MORE IMPORTANTLY, REZONING THE HISTORIC CORE OPENS THE DOOR TO FUTURE UNDESIRABLE DEVELOPMENT OF THESE PROPERTIES BY OTHERS. STAYING HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL AND ACQUIRING VARIANCES IS A BETTER OPTION BECAUSE VARIANCE REQUESTS ARE SPECIFIC. WE'LL ONLY ASK FOR WHAT WE NEED. THE ZONING STAYS STRICTLY RESIDENTIAL AND THE PROCESS IS FAR LESS TIME CONSUMING. SO WE'RE EVENTUALLY GOING TO BE ASKING FOR VARIANCES TO LOT COVERAGE, FOOTPRINT COVERAGE AND REAR YARD SETBACK, ALL WHILE KEEPING THOSE COVERAGES COMPATIBLE WITH THE LOT COVERAGES OF THE NEARBY PROPERTIES. BOTH LOTS, AS YOU'RE AWARE, ARE IMPACTED BY HIGHWAY EASEMENTS. AS OF OUR LAST COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, THE FINAL USE OF THESE HIGHWAY EASEMENTS HASN'T BEEN DETERMINED, BUT WE'RE DOING OUR BEST TO WORK WITH THEM NOW. FINALLY, WE'RE GONNA BE ASKING PERMISSION TO REMOVE BOTH EXISTING OUTBUILDINGS AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTIES. THE A RB DISCUSSED THIS AT THE FEBRUARY, 2023 MEETING IN THE CONTEXT OF CO HATCH'S ORIGINAL RIVERVIEW VILLAGE PROPOSAL AND WAS IN FAVOR OF THEIR REMOVAL. SINCE BOTH OUTBUILDINGS SIT LARGELY WITHIN THE CITY'S HIGHWAY EASEMENTS, THEY'LL HAVE TO BE REMOVED ANYWAY, AS MR. ALEXANDER POINTED OUT, AS I'M SURE YOU CAN TELL FROM OUR SUBMISSION, WE'RE VERY EARLY IN THE DESIGN PROCESS AND WE EXPECT BOTH HOUSE DESIGNS TO EVOLVE AS WE CONTINUE WORKING ON THEM. AT THE TIME, WE PREPARED THIS PROPOSAL SIX WEEKS AGO. WE DID NOT YET HAVE A COMPLETE SURVEY. SO THE LOCATIONS OF THE EXISTING HOUSES AND THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LOTS ON THESE DRAWINGS ARE ESTIMATES. WE'VE SINCE RECEIVED THE SURVEY AND IT SHOWS THAT THE HEIGHT DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN THE EXISTING HOUSES AND BLACKSMITH LANE IS LESS THAN WE THOUGHT. SO THE ADDITIONS WILL BE LOWERED SOMEWHAT IN THE NEXT DESIGN. OUR GOAL WITH BOTH H BOTH HOUSES IS COMPLETE RESTORATION, NEW SIDING, TRIM WINDOWS AND ROOFS ON THE EXTERIOR AND NEW EVERYTHING ON THE INTERIOR. WE'RE KEEPING THE ORIGINAL FORMS OF THE HOUSES INTACT AND ARE ADDING ON MOSTLY TO THE REAR. THE ADDITIONS IN BOTH CASES ARE SUBORDINATE TO THE ORIGINAL HOMES, MEANING THAT THE ORIGINAL HOUSE IS GIVEN PRECEDENCE IN THE OVERALL DESIGN. WE'RE DOING THAT BY BREAKING THE ADDITIONS INTO SEVERAL SMALL MASSES, VARYING THE ROOF HEIGHTS AND PINCHING THE ADDITIONS SO THAT THE CORNERS OF THE ORIGINAL MASSES ARE MAINTAINED IN BOTH HOMES. WE'RE CONCENTRATING A LARGE PART OF THE MASSING AT THE VERY BACK OF THE PAR PROPERTY AS FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL HOMES AS POSSIBLE. THOSE LARGER MASSES ARE DESIGNED TO MIMIC OUT BUILDINGS NORMALLY FOUND IN URBAN ALLEYS, MUCH LIKE THE DILAPIDATED BARNS ON THE LOTS. NOW, OUR SUBMISSION INCLUDES [00:25:01] SEVERAL VIEWS OF THE MASSING OF MOST OF THE BUILDINGS IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA, SHOWING HOW WELL THESE REMODELED HOMES FIT INTO THE OVERALL CONTEXT. THE ONLY MASSING MODEL MISSING IN OUR PRESENTATION, UH, ARE THE ATCH BUILDINGS AND THE PROPOSED BUILDING FOR 1622 NORTH HIGH, DIRECTLY BEHIND OUR PROPERTIES. BLACKSMITH LANE IS AN ALLEY ALLEYS AND URBAN AREAS ARE USED FOR VEHICULAR ACCESS. I'VE MARKED UP THIS AERIAL PHOTO. DO I NEED TO DO THE CLICKER THING NOW? UH, I THINK WE CAN, WE CAN HAVE SWAG. IT CHANGE TO THE, UM, POWERPOINT. IT WAS THERE A MINUTE AGO. THERE. IT'S THERE. IT'S OKAY. UM, I'VE MARKED UP THIS AERIAL PHOTO THAT SHOWED THE EXIST, THE LOCATION OF EXISTING BUILDINGS IN RED AND PROPOSED OR UNDER CONSTRUCTION BUILDINGS IN YELLOW RELATIVE TO THE ALLEY, SHOWING HOW THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED BUILDINGS DEFINE THE ALLEY, INCLUDING THE TWO DETACHED BUILDINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON OUR SITES, WHICH ARE USED AS, OR WERE USED AS GARAGES AND THEY ALMOST TOUCH THE STREET PAVEMENT. I'M ALSO SHOWING. ALRIGHT, DO I CLICK TO MAKE IT GO NOW? ? SORRY. LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS. YES, THERE IT GOES. I'M ALSO SHOWING THE APPROVED SITE PLAN AND BLACKSMITH LANE ELEVATION OF 36 38 NORTH HIGH, WHICH IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW ACROSS THE INTERSECTION BEHIND US SITE PLAN AND THE PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED SITE PLAN AND BLACKSMITH LANE ELEVATION OF 1622 NORTH HIGH, WHICH IS BEING REWORKED, BUT I'M ASSUMING IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING SIMILAR IN TERMS OF SCALE AND LOCATION. NEEDS A LOT OF WORK. OBVIOUSLY BOTH BUILDINGS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE MATH MASSIVE THAN OUR PROPOSED ATTACHED GARAGES AND ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE ALLEY. THE MOST RECENT PROPOSAL FROM ATCH SHOWS PROPOSED BUILDINGS WITH A SIMILAR RELATIONSHIP TO THE ALLEY. OUR GARAGES CONTRIBUTE TO THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED STREET SCAPE, INCLUDING HAVING THREE GARAGE DOORS, WHICH IS ENTIRELY IN KEEPING WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE ALLEY. WE'RE ALSO PLANNING ON MAKING THE WEST SIDES OF THE GARAGES PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY, ALMOST LIKE THE FRONT OF A HOUSE. THOSE DON'T SHOW WELL ON THESE EARLY SKETCHES, BUT IT'S A GOAL OF OURS AS WE DEVELOP THE DESIGN FURTHER, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH BLACKSMITH LANE AND WITH WING HILL, BUT WE DO EXPECT BLACKSMITH LANE TO BE WIDENED EITHER FOR VEHICLES, PEDESTRIANS, OR BOTH, ASSUMING IT'S WIDENED TOWARD THE EAST. TO AVOID THE HISTORIC STONE WALL ON THE WEST SIDE OF BRIDGE STREET OR AT BRIDGE STREET. IT WILL REDUCE THE LENGTH OF THE ACCESS BETWEEN THE GARAGES AND THE ALLEY. BY THE TIME THE ALLEY'S WIDENED AND AMENITIES LIKE A TREE, LAWN AND A SIDEWALK ARE ADDED, AS IS, AS IS SUGGESTED IN THE STREET SCAPE CHARACTER GUIDELINES, THE DRIVEWAYS WILL BE VERY SHORT. IN FACT, WE ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO USE AS MUCH OF THE HIGHWAY EASEMENT TO THE EAST AS POSSIBLE TO SHORTEN THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE ALLEY AND OUR GARAGES. WE'RE FACED WITH DIFFERENT DESIGN CHALLENGES ON EACH HOUSE. ON THE 17 HOUSE, THE CEILING HEIGHTS ARE LESS THAN EIGHT FEET, SO THE ROOMS AREN'T USABLE AS MAIN LIVING SPACES. INSTEAD WE'RE USING THE FIRST FLOOR FOR SECONDARY BEDROOMS. AND THEN OFFICE. THE MAIN LIVING SPACES WITH HIGHER CEILINGS ARE ALL PUSHED BEHIND THE HOUSE WITH THE PRIMARY BEDROOM SUITE OVER THE GARAGE. THE DESIGN OF THE 27 HOUSE IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION. THE HOME IS IN A RELATIVELY TERRIBLE CONDITION WITH NO USABLE FOUNDATION BELOW IT. THE HOUSE WILL HAVE TO BE LIFTED TO CONSTRUCT THE NEW FOUNDATION UNDER IT. AND WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT, WE'RE PROPOSING TO MOVE THE ENTIRE HOUSE, ALIGNING IT WITH THE SIDE PROPERTY LINES AND MOVING IT FURTHER NORTH ON THE LOT. AS YOU CAN SEE FROM OUR NEW SURVEY, WHICH WE DID GET, THE HOUSE SITS AT AN AWKWARD ANGLE TO THE STREET, UH, OUT OF ALIGNMENT WITH THE ADJACENT HOMES AND LITERALLY 1.2 INCHES FROM THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE. IT'S THE ONLY HOUSE ON NORTH RIVERVIEW STREET THAT IS NOT MORE OR LESS PARALLEL TO THE SIDE LOT LINES. THE HIGHER CEILINGS IN THE 27 HOUSE WILL ALLOW US TO USE THE FIRST FLOOR SPACES FOR THE PRIMARY BEDROOM SUITE, A DINING ROOM, AND A KITCHEN. OTHER LIVING SPACES WILL BE BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND THE GARAGE WITH SOME USABLE SPACE OVER THE GARAGE. WHEN COMPLETED, THESE TWO HOMES WILL BE APPROPRIATE AND DESIRABLE ADDITIONS TO THE HOUSING MIX, TO THE IMMEDIATE AREA AND TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS A WHOLE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE COMMISSION AND WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO BRING THESE HOMES BACK TO LIFE. THANK YOU. ANY INITIAL QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT, UH, IF YOU'LL GO BACK TO THAT, UM, DRAWING PLEASE. WHEN YOU MOVE THE HOUSE ON, IF YOU MOVE THE HOUSE ON 27, HOW DOES THE FOUND, WHAT DOES THE FOUNDATION CONSIST OF UNDERNEATH AND ARE YOU PLANNING TO LIKE, REUSE WHAT'S THERE OR JUST ALL NEW? THERE'S LITERALLY NOTHING UNDER THE HOUSE. UM, THE SIDING OF THE HOUSE COMES DOWN TO THE GROUND AND IS THE CASE WITH A LOT OF HOUSES THESE [00:30:01] AGE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN WELL MAINTAINED. IT'S CRUMBLED TO DUST. UM, SO THERE'S, I MEAN I'VE DONE A LOT OF PROJECTS WHERE WE CAN REPAIR THE FOUNDATION. THERE'S NOTHING THERE TO REPAIR. SO IF THE HOUSE STAYS THERE, IT'S GONNA BE LIFTED UP. NEW FOUNDATION WILL BE DUG UNDERNEATH. WE WANNA LIFT IT UP, BUILD A NEW FOUNDATION NEXT TO IT, AND THEN PUT IT ON THAT NEW FOUNDATION. SO THERE IS NO CELLAR OR CRAWLSPACE OR EXISTING. THERE IS A CRAWLSPACE. UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S COMPLETELY UNUSABLE. I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THE KIND OF CRAWLSPACE THAT YOU'RE GONNA STORE YOUR CHRISTMAS DECORATIONS IN. IT'S A NASTY, AWFUL THING. AND THE, THE FOUNDATION HAS HOLES IN THE OUTSIDE. IT'S, UH, THERE'S AND HOW ABOUT HOW DEEP IS THAT CRAWL SPACE? UH, IT VARIES FROM ONE POINT TO ANOTHER. SO IT'S, UH, IT'S PROBABLY AT, AT THE MOST, A COUPLE OF FEET. I'LL BE PERFECTLY HONEST. I DID NOT GO DOWN IN THAT CRAWL SPACE. . OKAY. THANK YOU. WERE ANY OTHER USES OF THESE STRUCTURES EXPLORED? NOT FOR MY CLIENTS, NO. OKAY. ALRIGHT. CARRIE, DO YOU MEAN THE HOUSE STRUCTURES OR THE OUTBUILDING STRUCTURES? WELL, I'M LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE SITE. OKAY. THERE WERE OTHER, THERE WERE OTHER THOUGHTS. THE REASON I BRING THAT UP, THERE ARE OTHER THOUGHTS THAT HADN'T BEEN DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY ABOUT THE WAY THESE SITES COULD BE DEVELOPED. YEAH. THAT WOULDN'T REQUIRE THE VARIANCES THAT WE'RE SEEING. SO THAT'S WHAT GENERATED THE QUESTION. THAT'S ALL. I I I'M SORRY, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU, I UNDERSTAND. IS THERE SOME REASON THAT YOU DESIRE TO HAVE NOT YOU PERSONALLY, YOUR CLIENTS HAVE THE, I THINK IT'S 27 REALIGNED WITH THE SIDE OF THE LOT LINES AS OPPOSED TO THE STREET ITSELF? WELL, YEAH. IT'S, AS I SAID BEFORE, AND IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS, YOU'LL SEE THAT THAT HOUSE IS ANGLED MORE THAN THE OTHERS. NO HOUSE THERE IS PERFECTLY PARALLEL TO THE SIDE YARD LINES, BUT THIS ONE'S MUCH MORE CATTYWAMPUS THAN THE REST OF THEM. UM, AND BECAUSE IT TOUCHES, THE PROP ALMOST LITERALLY TOUCHES THE PROPERTY LINE. WE HAVE TWO ISSUES. THE FIRST IS IF I ADD ONTO THE BACK, I CAN'T BECAUSE IT, THERE'S NO ROOM TO GO STRAIGHT BACK. I'M OFF THE PROPERTY. UM, WHICH MEANS THAT ADDITION WOULD HAVE TO BE AT AN ODD ANGLE TO THE REST OF THE HOUSE OR DISCONNECTED. AND THE SECOND ISSUE IS, ANYTHING THAT I BUILD THAT'S WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINE HAS TO BE FIRE RATED. SO THAT MEANS I CAN'T DO PORCHES, I CAN'T DO WINDOWS, I CAN'T DO DOORS. EVERYTHING'S GOTTA BE, UH, TRUE EXTERIOR SIDING AND FIREPROOF AND ALL THAT STUFF. SO MOVING IT NORTH ALLOWS US TO KEEP ALL THE CONSTRUCTION FIVE FEET AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. WHAT IS TO GRANITE VARIANCE? AS YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY HARDSHIP 'CAUSE YOU'RE ASKING FOR SIGNIFICANT OVERAGES, PARTICULARLY FOR THE ONE PROPERTY. SO YOU'VE SAID CEILING HEIGHT, BUT, BUT THEN WHAT ELSE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BZA CRITERIA? WELL, EVEN FOR US, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER WE SUPPORT THE VARIANCE REQUEST. AND SO I'M ASKING YOU, THEY'RE GONNA ASK YOU, UM, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT IN YOUR APPLICATION. SO WHAT, WHAT ARE THE HARDSHIPS? WHY, WHY ONE SHOULD SUPPORT THE VARIANCE? WELL, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ABOUT A RB, UM, I, I DON'T THINK THERE IS A HARDSHIP THAT REQUIRES US. I THINK THAT THE, THE QUESTION HERE IS ARE THESE PROPERTIES GONNA BE DEVELOPED TO A LEVEL THAT BRINGS THEM UP TO THE, WHAT THE MARKET EXPECTS IN THAT AREA? AND, UM, THESE LITTLE TINY HOUSES, UM, THE REASON THAT THEY'RE FALLING APART AND THEY'VE BEEN SITTING THERE FOREVER AND THAT THEY WERE RENTED BY UH, JACK BUELER FOR SO MANY YEARS IS BECAUSE NOBODY WANTED TO RESTORE THEM OR FIX THEM UP. WE'RE PROPOSING TO TURN THEM INTO SHOWCASE HOMES, UM, THAT'LL FIT THIS AREA. UM, SO, UH, THE ONLY REASON I MENTIONED THE LOW CEILING HEIGHT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE ALLOCATED THE SPACE SO THAT WE CAN GET TALLER CEILING SPACES AND MORE OPEN SPACES IN THE NEW PARTS AND PUT THAT MORE UTILITARIAN FUNCTIONS IN THE EXISTING HOUSE. THE 27 HOUSE HAS HIGHER CEILINGS, SO WE CAN PUT, UH, WE CAN PUT UM, MASTER BEDROOMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THERE. I'M SORRY, WOULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? YOUR LAST STATEMENT THERE. 27 HOUSES. YOU'VE SEEN THIS? I'M SORRY. UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT PART NO, THE 27 HOUSE, 27 NORTH RIVERVIEW, OR WHATEVER IT IS HAS THE 27 HOUSE. SORRY. HOW THE APPROPRIATE YEAH, THE 27 HOUSE HAS HIGHER CEILINGS SO WE CAN USE THOSE SPACES FOR DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE CAN'T ON THE OTHER HOUSE. I MEAN, I CAN, I CAN TOUCH THE CEILINGS WITHOUT STRAIGHTENING MY ELBOW ON THE, ON THE SOUTHERN HOUSE. IT'S NOT THAT HE'S DEALING WITH 27 HOUSES RIGHT NOW. YEAH. SORRY. SEEN THIS IN 27. YEAH, THAT'S A DIFFERENT PROPOSAL. WE'RE PUTTING 27 HOUSES THERE, . THAT'S WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN. [00:35:06] ANY OTHER INITIAL QUESTIONS? IT'S, I'LL GO BACK TO OUR LIST HERE. OKAY. WELL WE WANNA SEE IF THERE'S BEEN PUBLIC COMMENT. UM, SO THE DESIRE TO HAVE THREE CAR GARAGES CLEARLY DRIVES UP YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE AND YOUR COVERAGE ON A LOT. SO WHAT LED TO THE DESIRE FOR THREE CAR GARAGES? WELL, UH, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THREE HOMES. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE THREE HOMES ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BRIDGE STREET. WE HAVE THREE CAR GARAGES AND THAT, AND THOSE HOUSES. UM, THE CODE'S CHANGED SINCE THOSE THREE HOUSES, OBVIOUSLY. UM, AND IF THIS WERE AN AREA THAT WAS DOMINATED BY HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL LIKE IT IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE, WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE PROPOSING THIS AT THIS POINT. BUT, UM, THIS AREA REALLY, AS I SAID EARLIER, EVEN THOUGH IT'S TECHNICALLY HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL BY THE TIME CO HATCH RE ZONES AND ALL THE OTHER CONSTRUCTION GOES AROUND THERE, THIS IS A LITTLE POCKET OF RESIDENTIAL SURROUNDED BY COMMERCIAL EVERYWHERE ELSE. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET THE CLEARANCES THAT WE NEED FOR THIS HOUSE THROUGH THE VARIANCE PROCESS, UM, AS OPPOSED TO REZONING. UM, BUT, BUT WE THINK THAT THE THREE CAR GARAGE, UH, IS NECESSARY TO, UH, TO MAKE THESE HOMES ATTRACTIVE TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE THINK ARE GONNA BE INTERESTED IN BUYING THEM. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, SARAH, PUBLIC COMMENT, JUST THE SIX LETTERS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET. OKAY. YEP. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, SO NOTHING ELECTRONICALLY HAS COME IN SINCE THE MEETING STARTED. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, LET'S, LET'S GO THROUGH THE ITEMS. SO HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF THOSE NOW? THIS IS ASSUMING, UM, THAT THEY CAN MEET THE CRITERIA. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE CONVERSATION, UM, AND IF WE'RE IN FAVOR IT HAS TO BE BASED ON MEETING THE CRITERIA, WHICH WILL COME LATER. THEY'RE NOT PRESENTING THE CRITERIA TONIGHT. OKAY. WHO WANTS TO START? MIKE? GO AHEAD. YEAH, JUST IN REGARDS TO LOOKING AT THE DRIVE-THROUGH VIEW THAT WE COULD DO AND LOOK AT WHAT'S THERE. AND AGAIN, WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE MADE ON BLACKSMITH AT SOME POINT IN TIME. I SEE THOSE BUILDINGS COMING DOWN, THOSE TWO SHEDS COMING DOWN ANYWAY AT SOME POINT IN TIME. SO I THINK, UH, I THINK IT'S A, IN MY OPINION, AS LONG AS THEY'RE MEETING THE CRITERIA FOR THE DEMOLITION, BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A MATTER OF THE, HOW BLACKSMITH IS REDONE AND, AND HOW THEY HAVE TO DO THAT TO INCREASE THE PEDESTRIAN WAYS AND THE TRAFFIC WAYS. SO, UH, I'M, I POSITIVE THAT I WOULD SUPPORT IT IF WE HAD THE RIGHT CRITERIA MET TO US FOR THE DEMOLITION. YEAH, I DO AS WELL. I THINK THE BUILDINGS DO ADD CHARACTER WHEN I WAS WALKING THROUGH, I REALLY, I LIKE THEM, BUT WITH WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE EAST, NO, EXCUSE ME, WEST SIDE OF BLACKSMITH LANE, I, I AM BEGINNING TO THINK THEY'RE NOT GONNA FIT IN ANYWAY. SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS THEY MEET THE CRITERIA, THE EVIDENTIARY CRITERIA. OKAY. SO SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE IN SUPPORT OF THE DEMOLITION SUBJECT TO MEETING THE CRITERIA. ALRIGHT, THE, UM, ONE POTENTIALLY WE HAVE THE MOST COMMENTS ABOUT WILL BE THE VARIANCES. SO THERE ARE THREE VARIANCES REQUESTED, TWO, THREE FOR 17, TWO FOR 27. UM, SO 17 IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE FOR FOOTPRINT LOT COVERAGE IN THE REAR YARD. NOW THE FOOTPRINT, WE CAN, AS YOU KNOW, FROM PAST PROJECTS, WE CAN APPROVE A 20% INCREASE ON A WAIVER THROUGH THIS, THIS BOARD, WHICH WOULD, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO APPROVE ESSENTIALLY A 392 SQUARE FEET PLUS OR MINUS DEPENDING ON HOW YOU DO THE CALCULATIONS TO THE ALLOWABLE. UM, BUT THEY'RE ASKING TO INCREASE CLOSE TO 800 SQUARE FEET. SO THAT'S, THAT'S A PRETTY BIG INCREASE. YEP. AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST A PRELIMINARY, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION. YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S LIKE TO SEE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THAT DOWN WHERE I'D FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE [00:40:01] WITH IT SAYING, NO, I'M GOOD TO GO. I THINK WE'RE EARLY ENOUGH IN THIS STAGE FOR PLANNING TO, UM, SEE IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THAT BACK DOWN, THAT SOMETHING'S MORE MANAGEABLE FOR US. I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THOSE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS AT THIS POINT. MARK HILLARY? YEAH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, I AGREE. I I JUST, AND WE'LL GET INTO MASS IN A MINUTE, BUT IT'S JUST A LOT OF COVERAGE ON THE SMALL PROPERTIES. UH, I DON'T, I CAN'T RECALL BEING, SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD THAT WE HAVE HAVE APPROVED SUCH A INCREASE SUCH A, OH, TURN, TURN YOUR, I CAN'T RECALL A SITE SINCE I'VE BEEN A PARTICIPANT OF THIS BOARD WHERE WE HAVE APPROVED THAT, A QUANTITY OF A VARIANCE. SO YEAH. AND I, I WENT BACK AND WE'RE AT, I'M JUST GONNA SAY WE'RE AT THE SUCH A BEGINNING STAGE OF THE PROJECT. IT'S NOT, UM, PARTICULARLY, WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF DESIGN INTEREST TO BE REVIEWED AND THERE'S TIME TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO BRING IT BACK DOWN WITHIN OUR, WHAT IS OUR AUTHORITY FOR VARIANCE. TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE CONTEXT, I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT, AND I, I KNOW MR. TAYLOR'S FAMILIAR WITH THIS 'CAUSE IT'S HIS PROJECT 83 SOUTH HIGH STREET, AND WE DID GRANT, UM, A 20% WAIVER ON THAT PROPERTY. AND THAT PROPERTY ESSENTIALLY INCLUDES, AND THAT'S A SMALLER LOT THAT, THAT THAT LOT SIZE IS 6,332 SQUARE FEET. SO IT'S, IT IS CONSIDERABLY SMALLER LOT AND THEY HAVE A TWO AND A HALF CAR. THE, THE EXISTING GARAGE THAT HAS AN OFFICE IS MORE OR LESS A ONE AND A HALF CAR IN THE ADDITION HAD A FULL CAR. SO THEY WERE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE TWO AND A HALF CAR GARAGE ON A, A SMALLER LOT. AND WE, WE GRANTED THAT THAT INCREASE. UM, THERE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE A LOT OF POSITIVE THINGS ABOUT THE MASSING AND WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT. I, I, I, I STRUGGLE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE DECISION TO SPREAD ALL THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OUT AT THE GROUND FLOOR AND I KNOW IT CHANGES THE MASSING, BUT, AND, AND THERE'S AN APPROACH YOU SEE IN GERMAN VILLAGE BECAUSE THEY'RE MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN WE ARE IN TERMS OF BUILDING IN THE REAR SETBACK. AND SO MANY OF THOSE STORY AND A HALFS HAVE TWO STORY ADDITIONS IN THE BACK BECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO COVER THE QUARTER, THE REAR 25% OF THE LOT. UM, AND SO TO GET THE AREA THAT PEOPLE NEED, THE MASSING AT THE BACK GETS TALLER. UM, HOW THAT LOOKS, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. BUT THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN A DECISION TO SPREAD OUT SO MUCH THE, OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. I I, I COULD SEE SUPPORTING A VARIANCE TO GO OVER THE 20% AND, AND IN A MINUTE I MIGHT, I I MIGHT MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT WHAT I COULD SUPPORT, BUT, BUT THERE'S BEEN A DECISION AND IT, IT IS GOOD IN TERMS OF THE DESIGN, BUT SPREADING OUT THE, THE THREE CAR GARAGE AND THEN SPREADING OUT SO MUCH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE GROUND FLOOR GIVES YOU THE BIG FOOTPRINT. SO I'M JUST A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE PERSONALLY WITH THAT, THAT MYSELF. UM, AND, AND WE, AND I WANNA SAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT 27. UM, SO WOULD WE BE COMFORTABLE INCREASING NOW THE INCREASE FOR THE LOT COVERAGE, YOU KNOW, IS AROUND 240 SQUARE FEET, TWO 50 SQUARE FEET. SO THAT'S, THAT'S PAVEMENT AND THE BUILDINGS AND THE BUILDING. GREAT. SO HOW, HOW, HOW DO YOU FEEL BOARD MEMBERS ABOUT THAT? I MEAN, JUST IN MY GUT OR JUST HOW I FEEL ABOUT THAT PIECE OF IT? I THINK THAT ONE'S OKAY. I MEAN WE'RE GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT OVER OUR 20%, BUT UH, I THINK THE, THAT ONE WOULD BE OKAY WITH ME. I'M SORRY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 27 AND LOT COVERAGE? NO, I'M STILL TALKING ABOUT 17 ON, ON. I WAS GONNA COVER ALL THREE ON 17. OKAY. I LOST. SO I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE LOT COVERAGE ON 17 WE'RE WE'RE, IT'S PERMITTED TO BE OH RIGHT, 35 28 AND THEY WANT TO GO TO 37 78. YEAH, I DUNNO. I THINK THAT'S FINE. SO I THINK THERE'S SOME LATITUDE ON THE OVERALL COVERAGE. OKAY. HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THE REAR YARD ENCROACHMENT? UM, I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT, GET THAT REWORKED, UH, JUST ESPECIALLY THAT'S FACING BLACKSMITH. CORRECT. AND WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT HOLE. I THINK WE'VE KIND OF DISCUSSED THAT ALREADY. I THINK WE'RE EARLY ENOUGH IN THE STAGE. [00:45:01] I THINK WE'RE GIVEN A VARIANCE ON THE LOT COVERAGE. BUT AGAIN, CAN WE, CAN THAT BE REWORKED IN THE BACKSIDE? I THINK THAT'S THE WHOLE WEST SIDE. IT SEEMS TO BE THE ONE THAT'S CHALLENGING FOR ME TO LOOK AT WHERE THE GARAGE PLACEMENTS MM-HMM. AND WHAT'S PROPOSED DOWN BLACKSMITH LANE. I THINK THAT ONE, THAT ONE AT THIS POINT I THINK NEEDS TO JUST BE RE-LOOKED AT. YEAH. YEAH. I AGREE. IF WITH THE FLAT LINES AND EVERYTHING, IT'S GONNA START TO FEEL CANAL ISH OR NOT CANAL CAVERN ISH. SAY THAT CABBAGE CAVERN ISH, NOT CABBAGE, , CAVERN ISH. UM, AND ESPECIALLY IF IT'S, IT'S CLOSE UP ON THE SETBACKS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IT'S GONNA BE TOUGH. YEAH. I THINK TUNNEL IS, TUNNEL IS A BETTER WORD. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO, SO TWO OF YOU HAVE CONCERN ABOUT, IS IT THE EXTENT GOING THAT FAR INTO THE REAR? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE WEST SIDE SETBACK, RIGHT? RIGHT. YEAH. YES. YEP. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE SIDE. WELL, IT'S COMBINED WITH THE THREE CAR GARAGE ISSUE, BUT WE'RE NOT THERE YET. SO, OKAY. SO THE COMMENT THAT I'M HEARING IS, UM, IT'S, IT'S THAT IN ADDITION TO THE LENGTH MM-HMM. , SO IT'S THE WALL THAT THEY PRESENT. YES. THAT, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TWO OF THEM. SO IT'S THAT, THAT WALL, RIGHT MARTY, HOW DO YOU YES, I THINK IT CREATES BASICALLY A, A WALL OR A VISUAL TUNNEL FROM THE, FROM THE BACK OF THAT PROPERTY AND THEN ACROSS THE STREET, THAT WHOLE AREA. I JUST, I THINK THAT'LL DETRACT QUITE A BIT FROM THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE. AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CITY IS ENVISIONING BLACKSMITH LANE IS GOING TO BECOME. THAT MAKES IT HARDER TOO. IF IT'S JUST GONNA BE A BACK ALLEY THEN I GUESS MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER. BUT IF THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN SIDEWALKS, THEY'RE ENVISIONING SOME KIND OF PEDESTRIAN WALKING AND THAT CLOSEUP BUILDING THAT ARE TALL AND BIG ARE GONNA BE NOT DESIRABLE. THE ONE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH AND ON THE WEST OF, OF BLACK HILL IS GONNA OPEN TO THAT SIDE. MM-HMM. . SO RIGHT. IT FRONTS ON IT. NOW. NOW I THINK THAT UM, BECAUSE THEIR, THEIR PLACEMENT OF THAT THESE GARAGES IS MORE LIKE A TRADITIONAL BUILDING ALLEY RELATIONSHIP. SO I I THINK SOME OF THE, THE WALL CONSIDERATION WOULD BE MODIFIED IF THE GARAGES WEREN'T AS BIG. EXACTLY. YOU KNOW, IF THE GARAGE OR, OR YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE OF 'EM WASN'T AS BIG OR ONE OR SO OR THEY DIDN'T LINE UP IS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE, THE STRUCTURES ARE OUT EVEN FURTHER THAN WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN THAT EASEMENT. SO THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT MOVING THESE BACK SO, UM, FROM WHERE THE STRUCTURES ARE NOW. SO THEY WOULD BE BACK. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. THEY WOULD BE BACK FURTHER. RIGHT. UM, BUT YEAH, AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD CALL OUT TOO BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL SO LINEAR RIGHT THERE. YEAH, I AGREE. IT DOES CREATE THAT LINEAR EFFECT WHEN YOU'RE GOING DOWN BLACKSMITH, YOU KNOW, IF THERE COULD BE SOME OFFSET THERE EVEN ON THE GARAGES TO GIVE A LITTLE CHARACTER OF LIKE DIFFERENCE OF UM, 'CAUSE WHAT I'M THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY THERE, RIGHT? AND IN WHICH CASE, YEAH, MAYBE THE SETBACK WOULDN'T BE SUCH A PROBLEM IF THE GARAGES WERE BROKEN UP A LITTLE BIT OR, OR SMALLER WOULD BE NOT MAKE IT AS LINEAR DOWN OR, OR MORE MORE SPACE BETWEEN THEM OR, SO IT'S, IT'S NOT WHAT, WHAT I'M HEARING IS IT, IT'S NOT SO MUCH IT THE ENCROACHMENT IN BUT THE RESULT OF MAYBE THE ALIGNMENT AND, AND THE SIZE AND MAYBE THE ONE OF THEM HAS A VERY DIFFERENT SHAPE. IT HAS A GABLE THAT'S TURNED OR SOMETHING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO BREAK THAT. BUT IT, BUT IT SOUNDS, IS THERE, AM I HEARING THAT THERE'S SOME, UM, FLEXIBILITY WITH ENCROACHMENT INTO THE REAR? OH YEAH. I WOULD THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY FLEXIBILITY. UH, IT'S NOT A DEFINITE NO. OKAY. SO DE DE DEPENDING ON THE WAY THE PROJECTS DEVELOP MM-HMM. THAT WE COULD SUPPORT ENCROACHMENT INTO, INTO THE REAR. YEAH. I THINK IF WE JUST LOOK AT HOW YOU LAY THAT WHOLE BACKSIDE OUT SO IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE AN ALLEY OR A TUNNEL. OH, OKAY. UM, ALRIGHT. THE, UH, THE, NOW IF WE TALK ABOUT 27 [00:50:02] NOW, NOW 27, UM, NEEDS, NEED, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT GOING VERY FAR BEYOND WHAT WE CAN APPROVE WITH THE WAIVER BECAUSE AT 27 WITH THE WAIVER, AND HERE I'M GOING BACK TO BUILDING FOOTPRINT. SO WE'RE STARTING THIS ONE OVER. SO AT 27, IF WE LOOK AT BUILDING FOOTPRINT, ROUGHLY WE CAN APPROVE 27 5, UH, 2,753 SQUARE FEET AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR, UM, 2,967. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR, WELL THEY'RE ASKING FOR ABOUT ANOTHER 200 SQUARE FEET FROM WHAT WE CAN APPROVE THE SIZE OF A GARAGE. MM-HMM. . SO HOW FEELINGS ABOUT, ABOUT THAT ONE? UH, I STILL THINK THAT'S SOMEWHAT SIGNIFICANT AT THIS POINT WITHOUT JUST PRELIMINARY, WITHOUT YOU HAVING TAKEN A LOOK AT HOW THAT'S DESIGNED OUT A LITTLE BIT BETTER. BUT YEAH, I'M LOOKING AT LIKE, IT'S SHOWING ME WHAT 32% IT, IT, IT'S MORE THAN THE 20 THAT WE CAN YEAH, EXACTLY. 32.4 ACCORDING TO THE CALCULATION. OKAY. UM, AND AGAIN, IF, IF THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITY ON THAT BACKSIDE WITH THE GARAGES AND TAKING SOME OF THAT UH, FOOTPRINT OFF A LITTLE BIT, THAT WOULD HELP. IF I BRING IT DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT'S MORE MANAGEABLE FOR US OR FOR MYSELF, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, I'M IF, AND HERE I'M GONNA GO BACK TO, I'M GONNA GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN 17 AND 27 'CAUSE I, I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THESE TOGETHER AND I THINK 17 HAS MORE RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE THE CEILING HEIGHT THAT YOU MENTIONED. I, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU'RE TUNED, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE GROUP WANTS 27 TO BE CLOSER TO THE WAIVER NUMBER. ARE YOU OKAY IF IT GOES OVER THE 20% WAIVER THAT WE CAN APPROVE? YEAH, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. I JUST THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY WE'RE THIS IS THE FIRST LOOK AT IT TO SEE WHAT'S, WHAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY. BUT I THINK IF IT WORKS RIGHT AND WORKS WELL WITH THE FLOW, I'M YEAH. 'CAUSE OKAY WITH THAT, BECAUSE WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THESE, I I WAS THINKING, WELL IF THE SQUARE FOOT, IF THE COVER, IF THE UM, IF FOOTPRINTS WERE ABOUT THE SAME, EVEN IF WE GOT 27 DOWN TO THE 20% AND THEN ALLOWING 17 OR, OR SUPPORTING, NOT ALLOWING, BUT SUPPORTING A VARIANCE TO GO UP TO THE 27 53, UM, WHICH IS ABOUT HALFWAY WHERE YOU WANTED TO GO. I MEAN THAT, THAT GETS IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT. BUT WE'RE STILL RECOGNIZING THE DIFFICULTY OF WORKING WITH THAT LOT AND UM, AND SUPPORTING A VARIANCE FOR THAT. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU COULD STILL DO A LOT, IN NO PUN, YOU, YOU COULD STILL MAKE CONSIDERABLE CHANGES TO THE HOUSE WITH, UM, 400 BEYOND, BEYOND WHAT WE CAN APPROVE. OKAY. OKAY. SO TO SUMMARIZE, , UM, I THINK THE, THE EASY, WELL THE REAR YARD WE'RE, WE WOULD SUPPORT A VARIANCE, BUT WE'RE NOT SURE TO WHAT EXTENT WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT VARIANCE. AND IT'S SOMEWHAT DEPENDENT ON, DEPENDENT ON THE DESIGN. SO I KNOW THAT'S HARD TO GO, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GO TO TO BZA WITH THAT, UM, AND WHETHER THEY EXPECT SOMETHING MORE CONCRETE FROM US, BUT IT'S PROBABLY TO YOUR BENEFIT THAT WE WAIT TO SEE WHAT YOU COME UP WITH BEFORE WE SAY, YEAH, WE, WE REALLY LIKE THIS WE'LL, WE'LL, UM, APPROVE A PARTICULAR ENCROACHMENT. SO I THINK WE'RE WE'RE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT DEPENDING ON THE DESIGN. UH, THE LOT COVERAGE FOR 17 DOESN'T, THE, THE VARIANCE FOR THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR ANYBODY. UM, UNLESS THINGS CHANGE THE LOT COVERAGE BEYOND WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING TODAY. UM, ONE SEC. UM, 27 DOESN'T NEED THE VARIANCE FOR THE, FOR THE LOT COVERAGE. I'M, I'M TALKING ABOUT LOT COVERAGE. YEAH. SO 17 LOT COVERAGE SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE UNLESS FOR SOME REASON IT COME BACK, COMES BACK AND IT, IT BECOMES GREATER. BUT I THINK, UM, BOTH OF THEM [00:55:02] WE'RE NOT QUITE COMFORTABLE. WELL, 27 WE'RE NOT QUITE COMFORTABLE. THAT'S THE ONE WHERE YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE LEAST, YOU'RE ASKING FOR MORE THAN THE 20%, YOU'RE ASKING FOR 32%. AND SO THAT ONE WE MIGHT APPROVE SOME, WE MIGHT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF SOMETHING BEYOND OUR 20%, BUT NOT WHERE WE, NOT WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. AND THEN I THINK THE, UM, I JUST THREW OUT A NUMBER FOR 17 AND THERE WAS NODDING HERE. I THINK WE'D SUPPORT, I, I WOULD SUPPORT ANOTHER 400 SQUARE FEET BEYOND WHAT WE CAN APPROVE. UM, SO THAT GETS YOU UP TO 27 50. UM, SO THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY ON THAT NUMBER TOO. SO WE WOULD SUPPORT A VARIANCE BUT NOT QUITE TO WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. AND THOSE ARE SUBJECT TO THE DESIGN. UM, AND HOW AND HOW WE SEE COULD BE LESS, COULD BE MORE DE DEPENDING ON THE DESIGN. SO I THINK WE'VE ADDRESSED THE VARIANCE ISSUE. UM, LET'S TALK NOW WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MASSING WHEN WE DISCUSSED THE ALLEY, BUT IT WASN'T SO MUCH THE HEIGHT THAT I'M HEARING THE THREE OF YOU REACT TO OF THE GARAGE STRUCTURE. IT WAS MORE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE LINED UP MM-HMM. AND THAT THEY CREATED A KIND OF CANYON THERE SO GETS RIGHT MARTIN, MARTY, YOU SHOULD SAY IT THE WORD I WAS LOOKING CANYON OR WALL EFFECT OR MARTY SAID WALL. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SO IT'S NOT, NO ONE'S REACTING TO THE SECOND STORY ABOVE THE GARAGE OR THAT, UM, IT'S JUST THE WAY THEY ARE RELATIVE TO ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE I DO THINK WHAT'S GONNA BE ON THE OTHER SIDE IS GONNA BE TALLER. SO, AND, AND IF YOU NEED TO PUT MORE OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON A SECOND FLOOR, LOADING IT BACK THERE MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. NOW THE ONE PROJECT YOU QUOTE YOU, YOU QUOTED, IS COMING BACK TO US, HEY, SHOULD THEY BETTER COME BACK TO US WITH SOMETHING LOWER? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE TOLD. UM, SO, UM, UM, BUT, BUT ANYWAYS, YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE'RE REACTING TO THE, THE SECOND FLOOR THERE. SO I THINK WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH, WITH THE MASSING THERE. YEAH, I THINK THE, OBVIOUSLY THE CHALLENGE AND MOST OF THE OTHER PROJECTS WE'VE BEEN DOING IS BASED ON THAT ELEVATION CHANGE THAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH AND THESE ARE GOING ON THE HIGHER SIDE OF THE ELEVATION COMING DOWN TO AN EXISTING HOUSE THAT'S LOWER. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT. I THINK IF WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ROOF HEIGHTS ARE END UP GOING TO BE, I THINK THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT IS THAT ULTIMATE HEIGHT GOING TO BE FROM ONE ROOF TO THE OTHER? I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE STORY BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ADDING ON A HIGHER SIDE OF THE ELEVATION THAT'S COMING DOWNHILL AND IT GIVES THAT PERCEPTION OF MAYBE BEING TALLER. THEY ARE, BUT THE PROJECTS BEHIND THEM ARE GOING BECAUSE THEY'RE UPHILL. THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA BE EVEN TALLER. YEAH. SO I I I THINK WHILE THE CONCERN ABOUT THE LINEAR NATURE ON THE ALLEY IS, IS I THINK IS A GOOD CONCERN, I DON'T THINK THERE ARE GONNA BE ANY ISSUES WITH THE, THESE RELATIVE TO WHAT'S GOING ON ACROSS, ACROSS THE ALLEY. IN FACT, YOU COULD ARGUE THIS IS A BETTER NEIGHBOR THAN TO THE, TO THE SCALE OF AN ALLEY THAN SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED OVER THERE. SO YEAH, JUST WEST OF THAT, SO, SO, UM, OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THE MASSING OR SCALE? YOU OKAY WITH LIKE A PORCH ON THE SIDE OR, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THEM THEY HAVE YEAH, I LIKE, I MEAN YEAH, THAT ALL FIT WELL, SO, OKAY. OKAY. SO, UM, THE ONLY, UM, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S REAL, IT'S REALLY EARLY. UM, AND, AND YOU'LL WORK THIS OUT I'M SURE WHEN THE DESIGN'S WORKED OUT, BUT WE'VE KIND OF EMPHASIZED OUR CODE EMPHASIZES NOT MAKING THINGS LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THE STRUCTURE THEY'RE ATTACHED TO AND SORT OF IN THE MASSING IT, IT, SOME OF THE MASSING LOOKS LIKE IT'S AN EXTENSION OF THE EARLIER HOUSE AND, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO, WE WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHERE THE EXISTING HOUSE WAS AND THEN WHERE THE ADDITION ADDITIONS ARE. SO I MEAN THAT THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT THE SHED DORMERS REPEATED FROM FRONT TO BACK. AND YOU KNOW, SOME OF THOSE THINGS, THE PORCH LOOKS A LITTLE SIMILAR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU WANNA ABSTRACT IT OR SOMEHOW JUST, I, I'M SURE WHEN YOU COME BACK THAT'LL ALL BE WORKED OUT. AND I THINK WITH THE CHANGE, I GUESS WE HAVEN'T REALLY DISCUSSED IT, THE CHANGE OF THE ANGLE OF 27, THAT'S, THAT'S THE NEXT ONE. YEAH. SO WE KIND OF TIES INTO WHAT YOU'RE [01:00:01] ALSO TALKING ABOUT HERE. SO I GUESS I CAN GO ON . YEAH, GO AHEAD. UH, YEAH, WHAT THAT'S ULTIMATELY GONNA LOOK LIKE, 'CAUSE IT IS GONNA CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE BACKSIDE OF THE PROPERTY. I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW IS NOT THAT CHANGE IN ON THE DRAWINGS THAT WE HAVE WITH THE PROPERTY OR WITH THE ADD-ONS IN THE BACK. DOES THAT CURRENTLY TAKE IN EFFECT THAT, THAT UH, FOUNDATION CHANGE OR IS THAT AS IT IS CURRENTLY? IF WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE, UM, SITE LAYOUT HERE, YOU CAN SEE, UM, LET ME SCROLL THROUGH THERE. SO THE BLUE OUTLINE FOR 27 IS HOW THE EXISTING HOUSE SITS AND THEN THE PROPOSED RELOCATION IS WITH THE YELLOW. OKAY. SHADE. 'CAUSE I'M, I MEAN THAT MAKES IT CLEAR FOR ME. I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN OUR ORIGINAL PACKET THAT SWITCH, BUT THAT, THAT DOES MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE THERE. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? YEAH. THAT SWITCH. HILLARY, MARTY, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE, ON THE SWITCH? NO, I THINK IT'LL BE FINE. YEAH. YEAH, IT'S, YEAH, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO LEAVE THAT UP THOUGH. THAT DRAWING FOR DISCUSSION ON THE MASSING LEAVE. WHAT UP THE LAST, UH, FIGURE THAT YOU JUST HAD UP WITH THE, THE SITE LAYOUT? MM-HMM. SURE. YEAH, THERE WE GO. THANK YOU. I, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. SO I, I NOW TALK ABOUT GETTING ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE WHEN YOU WHEN YOU, YOU YOU DO THIS AND NOW YOU BUILD THIS NEW BIG LOWER LEVEL ON THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE LOSING A LITTLE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE FOOTPRINT, BUT OUR APPROVAL OF THIS GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO HAVE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE AT THE, AT THE LOWER LEVEL. SO, UM, BUT I THINK, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA AND, AND I I AND UM, YEAH, YOU COULD MAKE THE POINT ABOUT BOTH ORIENTATIONS BEING LEGITIMATE, THE ORIENTATION TO THE CURVE AND THE FRONT STREET OR THE ORIENTATION TO THE SIDE STREET AND WHICH ONE DO YOU, BUT, BUT THE PROXIMITY, I THINK IT'S SO MUCH BETTER FOR THE NEIGHBOR TOO. I MEAN MM-HMM , YOU KNOW, WE, WE HEAR FROM NEIGHBORS FOR THINGS THAT WE APPROVE. SO I THINK THIS IS A LOT BETTER FOR THE, THE PERSON IN THAT NEIGHBORING HOUSE. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS OR COMMENTS BOARD MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO MAKE? JUST LIKE I SAID, IT'D BE NICE TO, WHEN WE GET INTO THE MORE PLANTS AND SEEING THOSE ROOF HEIGHTS AND, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER TOO AND HAVING THOSE 3D IMAGES REALLY HELPS US LOOKING AT THAT MASS EITHER FROM, YOU KNOW, NORTH RIVER RIVERVIEW LOOKING WEST OR IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO GET A 3D FROM BLACKSMITH LOOKING THAT DIRECTION 'CAUSE IT'S SO TIGHT. BUT YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T GET THAT FEEL FROM NORTH OR FROM BRIDGE OR THE MAIN DRAG, THE MAIN NORTH HIGH STREET LOOKING DOWN IT'S 'CAUSE IT'S SUCH AN ELEVATION CHANGE. BUT MR. TAYLOR, YOUR CLIENTS, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, UM, ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR US? HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN ME NOT TO HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS? , WELL SARAH, COULD YOU PUT UP THAT SITE PLAN AGAIN THAT, UH, MR. MASTER ASKED FOR YOU BET OR MR. COOPER ASKED FOR? SO, UM, UH, REALLY APPRECIATE THE COMMENTARY. UM, NOT MUCH UNEXPECTED THAT WE HEARD, SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. UM, PHILOSOPHICALLY I SUPPOSE THE WAY THAT I LOOK AT THIS IS HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL VIS VERSUS HISTORIC CORE. UM, EVERYTHING AROUND HERE IS GOING TO BE HISTORIC CORE EXCEPT FOR THESE THREE PROPERTIES. UM, AND IT ISOLATES THESE THREE AND TO ME IT'S ODD THAT WE WOULD HAVE THIS, WHAT WE STAGED STRICTLY WITH NO VARIANCES OR OVER DESERT ANYTHING. ESSENTIALLY THIS SUBURBAN BLOCK INSIDE OF THE CITY THING. IT'S, IT'S AN ODD JUXTAPOSITION IN MY MIND AND IT'S REALLY JUST ALMOST A SEMANTIC THING. IF WE JUST CHANGE THE ZONING FROM HR TO HC, WE HAVE UNLIMITED FOOTPRINT AND 85% LOT COVERAGE JUST BY MAKING THAT ONE ZONING CHANGE. IT SEEMS UNUSUAL TO ME OR CHALLENGING TO ME TO, TO HOLD SO TIGHTLY TO THE HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL RESTRICTIONS JUST BECAUSE IT'S HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL. IF THIS WERE SOUTH OF BRIDGE STREET, A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE. WELL, I WON'T SAY A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE, I DIDN'T LIKE THE NEW CODE, BUT IT'S THERE. A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE THAT IT'S THERE AND YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS TO DEAL WITH IT. [01:05:01] THIS IS A STANDARD THAT PERHAPS WE'RE BEING HELD TO THAT NONE OF THE PROPERTIES AROUND US ARE HELD TO. AND IT'S A ZONING DIFFERENCE IS THE REASON FOR THAT. BUT THAT WOULD BE PART OF MY ARGUMENT OR DISCUSSION WITH THE BZA IS THAT IT'S A, IT'S A DIFFERENT STANDARD. UM, SO THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR US, OTHER THAN GETTING AS MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE OF MUCH FOOTPRINT AS WE'RE ALLOWED, AND, AND I'LL SAY THE OTHER THING THAT I, I THOUGHT WAS UNUSUAL AND CHALLENGING ABOUT THE NEW CODE IS THAT THE LOT COVERAGE PERCENTAGE OF 45% AND THE FOOTPRINT COVERAGE OF 25%, TO ME YOU'RE VERY OUTTA WHACK. IT'S DIFFICULT TO SATISFY BOTH OF THOSE THINGS UNLESS YOU HAVE A VERY SMALL BUILDING AND A LOT OF PATIO. UM, WE HAVE VERY LITTLE DRIVEWAY IN THE BACKS OF THESE THAT'S GOING, THAT FITS INSIDE THE PROPERTY. SO WE'RE NOT USING THE SPACE FOR THOSE THINGS. WE'RE USING IT FOR, FOR THE BUILDING. UM, BUT THE UM, UH, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO US, OTHER THAN THE AREA IS TO BE AS, IS TO BE RIGHT ON THAT HIGHWAY EASEMENT LINE. NOW, RIGHT NOW, CAN WE SEE THAT SITE PLAN SWAG? IT CAN PUT IT UP FOR US. OKAY. IS THAT HANDLED REMOTELY SOMEWHERE REALLY? YEP. OKAY. SO, UH, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE TWO BARNS. DOES THIS HAVE A LASER POINTER IN IT? IT WON'T MATTER ANYWHERE, WILL IT? YOU CAN SEE THE OUTLINES OF THE TWO BARNS, UH, EXISTING BARNS ON THOSE DRAWINGS. IT'S KIND OF FAINT, BUT IT'S ON THERE. THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU. UM, THOSE ARE ALMOST ON THE EXISTING BLACKSMITH LANE. THE NEW SURVEY THAT WE HAVE, UM, WHERE I HAVE THE GARAGES RIGHT NOW, SITTING RIGHT UP TO THE HIGHWAY EASEMENT LINE, WHICH OTHER THAN THE SETBACK WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO. THE FRONT OF THOSE GARAGES ARE 19 FEET AWAY FROM THE PAVEMENT, WHICH MAKES THEM ABOUT 17 FEET, UH, FURTHER AWAY FROM THE PAVEMENT THAN THE CURRENT BARNS ARE RIGHT NOW. SO TO THE ISSUE OF IT BEING A CAVERN OR A, OR A TUNNEL, IT'S MUCH LESS THAT BECAUSE OF THE SETBACK. I AGREE WITH THE NOTION OF WE CAN CHANGE THE MASSING A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH OF THOSE BUILDINGS AND ADJUST THE PLACE FOR THEM SLIGHTLY TO REDUCE THAT IMPACT. UM, BUT, BUT BEING AS CLOSE TO THAT LINE IS, IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. THE OTHER THING IS, AND AGAIN, AS, AS EVERYONE HERE'S ALREADY DISCUSSED, WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE CITY'S GONNA DO WITH BLACKSMITH LANE THERE, BUT GIVEN THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN 15 FEET OFF OF BOTH OF THESE PROPERTIES, THE ASSUMPTION IS THEY'RE GONNA USE A LOT OF THAT. SO THE MORE, THE CLOSER THAT THEY MOVE BLACKSMITH LANE TO THE GARAGES, UM, WITH TREE LAWNS, WITH SIDEWALKS, THINGS LIKE THAT, UM, THE SHORTER THOSE DRIVEWAYS BECOME AND, UH, THE, THE LESS OF THE, UH, PAVEMENT THAT WE HAVE ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT MAKES IT, YOU KNOW, EVEN MORE CRITICAL FOR US TO NOT BE PUSHED ANY FURTHER EAST ON THESE PROPERTIES. UM, I UNDERSTAND THE COMMENT ABOUT POSSIBLY SHIFTING SOME OF THE SPACE FROM THE FIRST FLOOR TO THE SECOND FLOOR, UM, THAT THAT CAN WORK, UH, FOR SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE SPACES IN THESE HOUSES. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT HAVE TO STAY ON THE FIRST FLOOR TO MAKE A FUNCTIONAL HOME. UM, BUT I I, I'M A LITTLE WITH THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE BUILDINGS ACROSS THE ALLEY FROM US, WHICH ARE GONNA BE THREE AND FOUR STORY BUILDINGS AT THAT LEVEL. UM, I ASSUME YOU DON'T WANT THESE TO BE THAT TALL. I WOULD STILL BE HELD TO THE 24 FOOT BUILDING HEIGHT, UH, FROM BLACK BLACKSMITH LANE BACK THERE. UM, ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE OKAY TO HAVE THE BACKS OF THESE BUILDINGS BE MORE MASSIVE AND TALLER AND THAT'S PREFERABLE TO MORE LOT AREA COVERAGE? AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT CORRECTLY? WELL, I THINK WE'D WANT TO SEE THE DESIGN, BUT WE'RE, WE HAVE GRANTED VARIANCES FOR HEIGHT IN OTHER SITUATIONS. OKAY. SO IT'S NOT AS IF I, I'M GONNA RESPOND WHEN YOU'RE FINISHED. I'M GONNA RESPOND TO YOUR COMMENTS, BUT, UM, I'LL ANSWER THIS ONE RIGHT NOW. BUT WE'VE, WE'VE GRANTED VARIANCES FOR HEIGHT. IF, IF SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE DIFFERENTLY WITH A ROOF AT A SLOPE, THAT'S NOT AS STEEP AS WHAT WE WOULD APPROVE. I MEAN, THAT'S AN OPTION. I MEAN, SO THERE ARE OTHER VARIANCES THAT WE COULD GRANT, BUT I THINK THAT COVERAGE IS, THE COVERAGES ARE ONES THAT WERE ADOPTED, UM, PRETTY RECENTLY BECAUSE FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTS, WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THESE ISSUES. DO YOU WANT ME TO RESPOND TO YOUR OTHER COMMENTS, YOUR EARLIER COMMENTS? UM, IT, I RESPOND TO YOURS FIRST. THE, UM, THE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY BECAUSE I WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED WITH ALL OF THAT. UM, I KNOW THAT A LOT OF THEIR RESPONSE, THE NEW CODE IS IN, CAME ABOUT IN PART BECAUSE OF THE PROJECTS I WAS INVOLVED WITH. THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT SITUATION, IS MY POINT. SO WELL, BUT IT, [01:10:01] BUT IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE. AND THE OTHER THING IS, ONE OF THE THINGS THESE PROJECTS DON'T ADDRESS IS THE HISTORIC FABRIC THAT EXISTS. AND I HAVEN'T BROUGHT THAT UP AT ALL, BUT THERE'S SO MUCH OPEN SPACE ON THE LOTS AND PROJECTS LIKE THIS ARE DESTROYING, MAYBE THAT'S TOO STRONG A WORD, BUT THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIVE TO THE SPATIAL FABRIC. TOO OFTEN, ARCHITECTS, PLANNERS, THEY DON'T THINK ABOUT THE SPACE. SCULPTORS AND ARTISTS DO. THEY THINK ABOUT THE OBJECT AND THEY THINK ABOUT THE MASS, BUT THE SPACE IS HOW WE SEE THE OBJECTS. THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE REACTING TO, YES, THOSE TWO GARAGES ARE OUT FURTHER, BUT LOOK AT ALL THE OPEN SPACE THAT'S AROUND THEM. AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HEARING THE REACTIONS. IT'S BECAUSE THE SPACE IS GONE. AND SO I THINK FROM A PRESERVATION POINT OF VIEW, THESE PROJECTS ARE PROBABLY GONNA BE THOUGHTFULLY DESIGNED. I WILL BE THOUGHTFULLY DESIGNED AND WILL ADDRESS THE PHYSICAL CHARACTER. BUT IN TERMS OF THE SPATIAL CHARACTER OF WHAT'S OCCURRING DOWN THERE AND THE RECENT THINGS WE'VE SEEN FROM KATCH WHERE THEY'RE SCALING BACK, THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE POTENTIALLY AS MASSIVE AS THIS. SO THAT SPATIAL CHARACTER THAT EXISTS IS POTENTIALLY GONNA WIND CONTINUE THROUGH THOSE STRUCTURES AND BE BLOCKED HERE. OKAY. SO OUR RESPONSE TO COVERAGE IS ALSO ABOUT PRESERVATION OF SPACE AND PRESERVATION OF THE CHARACTER AND THE FABRIC THAT EXISTS. SO THAT'S WHY I THINK I UNDERSTAND YOUR ZONING ISSUE, BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS TOO. WITH THAT ZONING, YOU WON'T REZONE TO GET THOSE OTHER STANDARDS. SO YOU WANT US TO THEN GIVE YOU VARIANCES FOR THE STANDARDS THAT EXIST, BUT THERE'S STILL PRESERVATION OF SPACE ISSUES AND YET ATCH IS GONNA REZONE THEIR PROPERTY, WHETHER THEY ADD ONTO TO 'EM OR NOT. THEY WILL NOW HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO 85% LOT COVERAGE ON THOSE PROPERTIES JUST NORTH OF US. WHETHER THEY DO IT NOW OR THEY DO IT LATER. RIGHT NOW, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IN THEIR ONE THAT YOU HAVEN'T SEEN YET IS THEY'RE SHIFTING SPACE FROM THOSE BUILDINGS INTO THEIR ONE LARGE BUILDING. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS FOR THAT, BUT THEY'RE NOT PRECLUDING SOME FUTURE MASSIVE DEVELOPMENT ON THOSE PROPERTIES THERE, WHICH AGAIN, AS I SAID, IN TERMS OF ZONING, IT ISOLATES THESE THREE PROJECTS COMPLETELY. SO, UM, SO, UH, UM, UH, WHAT ELSE DID I HAVE HERE? UM, IT'S JUST AS FAR AS THE BZA AND A RB PROCESS, WHAT, WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR, AND AGAIN, WE'VE GOT A LONG WAY TO GO HERE. UM, THE NUMBERS, I SHOULD BRING UP ALL THE NUMBERS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 20% IN THE 400 SQUARE FEET AND ALL THAT. THOSE ARE ALL VERY PRELIMINARY. THE NEXT ROUND WE'LL HAVE EXACT NUMBERS FOR YOU. SO WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT, UM, MUCH MORE DETAIL. BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO HAVE IS THE A RB, UH, IN FAVOR OF AS MUCH WAIVER AS YOU CAN GIVE THE 20% ON ALL THE ISSUES WHERE WE NEED THAT. AND THEN A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS FOR THE ADDITIONAL SPACE THAT WE WOULD NEED. NOW THE PROCESS IS PLANNING DEPARTMENT GIVES A RECOMMENDATION TO BE YOU, DON'T YOU, YOU DON'T UNFORTUNATELY HAVE A FORMAL ROLE IN THE PROCESS, BUT PLANNING, UH, DEPARTMENT GIVES A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION TO THE B, THE BZA, AND THEN WE WOULD GET THE, THE, UH, FINAL FROM THEM. BUT I, BUT TO MAKE THAT WORK, I THINK WE WOULD NEED YOUR 20% PLUS YOUR, UM, BLESSING FOR THE, THE REST OF THAT. BUT YOU'RE ASKING, ARE YOU ASKING THAT FOR THAT TONIGHT? NO, NO, NO. I, YEAH, AND I THINK WE'D BE, I THINK WE'D BE WILLING, I I THINK WE WANNA SETTLE ON A NUMBER 'CAUSE WE'VE DONE THIS BEFORE, SO WE WANT TO SETTLE ON A NUMBER AND WE WOULD SETTLE ON A DISTANCE. WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE THIS WISHY-WASHY WHEN YOU COME BACK, . OH. SO I MEAN, MY STUFF'S WISHY-WASHY AT THIS POINT. I'M WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT. SO, SO NO, WE, WE WILL GIVE YOU NUMBERS AND I JUST THREW SOME, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE ALL AGREE ON THE PROCESS IS ALL I'M TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. AND I JUST THREW SOME OUT TO SEE HOW OTHER BOARD MEMBERS REACTED. SO JUST TO START THE CONVERSATION SO YOU HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A STARTING POINT, RIGHT? YEAH, NO, GOT SOME GOOD NOTES HERE AND, AND, UM, I THINK WE HAVE A REAL GOOD STARTING POINT. SO GENTLEMEN, ANYTHING FROM YOU? ALRIGHT, THANKS. OKAY. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. APPRECIATE YOU COMING OUT FOR ONE CASE. THANK YOU . ALRIGHT, THANK YOU ALL. ALRIGHT, SARAH, [COMMUNICATIONS] ANY COMMUNICATIONS? OKAY, THANKS. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE JEVON HENDERSON, [01:15:02] JAY IS WITH US. HE'S A, A PLANNING TECHNICIAN IN OUR OFFICE. AND HE IS GOING TO BE WORKING NOT ONLY ON PROJECTS BEFORE YOU, BUT ALSO WORKING ON THE MODELING THAT WILL BE PART OF OUR, OUR GIS URBAN. I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN EAGERLY AWAITING THAT. WE, WE NOW HAVE A PLAN AS TO WHO'S GONNA DO IT. NOW WE, WE HAVE TO GET THE CORRECT EQUIPMENT, BUT, UM, JAY HAS GRACIOUSLY OFFERED TO, UM, TAKE THAT ON FOR US. SO JUST WANTED YOU TO SEE WHO HE WAS. AND, UM, I BELIEVE IS IT NEXT MONTH THAT YOU'RE COMING BACK WITH A PROJECT NEXT MONTH? SO HE'LL BE PRESENTING OKAY. FOR A SEPARATE PROJECT. ARE ARE YOU NEW TO THE STAFF? UH, STARTED IN MAY. OKAY. MM-HMM, . OKAY. WELL, WELCOME. YEAH. UH, LET'S [2023 ARB Annual Report] SEE. SO THE SECOND ITEM IS YOUR ANNUAL REPORT WAS PROVIDED IN ELECTRONIC FORM IN YOUR PACKET AND YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU THE GLOSSY PRINT VERSION. UM, IT'S ALSO ON OUR WEBSITE AND WE TOOK A NUMBER OF COPIES WITH US AT THE OFFICE HOURS AT ATCH TODAY AND HANDED OUT TO SOME RESIDENTS WHO CAME TO VISIT. UM, AS YOU HAVE SEEN, THE, THE CODE UPDATES HAVE ALSO BEEN PROVIDED. THOSE ARE OFFICIAL NOW. SO, UM, THIS IS THE LANDMARK VERSUS BACKGROUND STUFF. SO YES, YOU, YOU HAVE NEW HARD COPIES FOR YOUR BINDERS AT HOME AND, UH, WE ARE STARTING PHASE TWO OF THE CODE AND GUIDELINE UPDATE WORK AND WE'RE PLANNING TO HAVE GREG DALE COME AND TALK IN MARCH TO KIND OF KICK THAT OFF, GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM YOU ALL, SOME REACTIONS AND UM, YOU KNOW, CONFIRM OUR DIRECTION. UM, AND THIS INCLUDES LANGUAGE FOR BACKGROUND, BUILDINGS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WITHIN THE GUIDELINES. NOTHING, NOTHING TOO DRAMATIC, BUT JUST SOME REFERENCES. UM, THE EXPANSION OF ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVALS, APPENDIX G UPDATES, SOME SCRIVENER'S ERRORS AND SOME MAYBE SOME OTHER LITTLE GOODIES THAT WE CAN INCLUDE IN THERE. AND THEN JUST A FINAL REMINDER, YOUR MANDATORY CYBER SECURITY TRAINING IS DUE WITHIN 30 DAYS. SO IF YOU CAN PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT ON CORNERSTONE AND GET THAT, GET THAT ADDRESSED PLEASE. CAN YOU OR JUDY OR SOMEBODY SEND THE LINKS AGAIN FOR THAT? YES, I DO NOT HAVE. OKAY. AND I HAVE OTHER IT ISSUES THAT I'LL SPEAK WITH YOU AFTER . OKAY. YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE. OKAY. WELL, EXACTLY. OH, IS IT ALL OF US? WELL, I HAVEN'T HAD ANY EMAILS SINCE JANUARY 11TH. THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT. YEAH. AND THEY'VE, I GUESS EVERYBODY IS HAVING TROUBLES ACCESSING, SO. OH, OKAY. YEAH, I COULDN'T GET INTO THE, UM, OH, THEY, THEY SENT ME A LINK TODAY, WHICH DIDN'T WORK. OH, GREAT. SO YEAH, I, I I COULD ONLY GET ON THE, GET THE PACKETS ON THE WEB. I COULDN'T GET IT ON THE ONE, WHATEVER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WELL WE KNOW WE'VE GOT SOME WORK TO DO. OKAY. YEAH, I SAID MINE'S WORKING JUST FINE. THANK YOU. . WELL THANK YOU MIKE . ALRIGHT. I TOOK A PICTURE, A SCREENSHOT OF THE, UM, EMAIL ABOUT THE TRAINING BECAUSE ON IT, IT HAS THE PHONE NUMBERS OF THE PEOPLE TO CALL ABOUT IF YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE BECAUSE THERE'S, I CAN'T MAKE IT WORK AND I ALSO CAN'T SEE ANY EMAIL AFTER, UH, JANUARY 11TH. YEAH. OKAY. UM, WE WILL GET THAT ADDRESSED. AND THAT'S ALL THE COMMUNICATIONS I HAD. ALRIGHT, GREAT. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? NO. ALL RIGHT. HERE NEXT MONTH. YEAH, US BOTH OF US WILL BE HERE NEXT MONTH AND SEAN WILL BE BACK. YOU'LL BE HERE. SO WE WILL HAVE THREE. YOU WILL HAVE THREE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. OKAY. THAT IS A QUORUM. IF I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE WHAT, A CONCEPTUAL REVIEW, MAYBE A COUPLE CONCEPTUAL REVIEWS. YES. WE'RE AIMING. WELL, LET'S SEE. WELL, WHAT, WHAT I WAS GONNA SUGGEST, IF WE HAVE CONCEPTUAL REVIEWS AND YOU WANNA REVIEW, SINCE IT'S NOT A VOTING, [01:20:01] BUT IF YOU WANNA REVIEW THINGS BEFORE OR REMOTELY AND AT LEAST LET US KNOW YOUR COMMENTS, WE CAN READ, LET THE APPLICANT KNOW. 'CAUSE YOUR CHANCES ARE YOU'LL BE BACK WHEN IT COMES TIME. WHEN IT COMES TIME TO VOTE. GOOD CALL. SO, LIKE I SAY, I'LL HAVE MY LAPTOP WITH ME, SO WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T VOTE REMOTELY. BUT UM, I MEAN I THINK THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. YOU REVIEW REVIEWING THE DOCUMENTS, WE'RE RELAYING YOUR COMMENTS TO US AND WE CAN LET LET THE APPLICANTS KNOW. AND WE ALSO TUNED INTO THE, UM, MEETING. MM-HMM. AS IF WE WERE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC. THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. RIGHT. YOU JUST CAN'T, YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE. YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE. YEAH. YOU SHOULDN'T, SORRY. YOU SHOULDN'T BE. I UNDERSTAND. ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE? OH, SARAH, DID YOU WANT TO ADD SOMETHING YOU WERE RESEARCHING? UM, I WAS JUST LOOKING TO SEE WHAT WE HAVE ON THE DOCKET FOR NEXT MONTH. TENTATIVELY WE'VE GOT 1622 CONCEPT PLAN AND DEMOLITION AND THEN 83 SOUTH RIVERVIEW, WHICH IS UM, A GARAGE DOOR PL REPLACEMENT. AND THEN ONE 19 SOUTH HIGH, WHICH IS THE DEMOLITION OF THE CHICKEN COOP SLASH WELL HOUSE. OKAY. YES. SO, OKAY. SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE'D BE VOTING ON, NEVER ENDING. WE ALSO WANT TO SEND TO YOU, OUR PLAN IS TO SEND TO YOU THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS AND DELIVER THAT TO YOU WITH THE IDEA THAT A VOTE WOULD OCCUR IN MARCH. SO THAT GIVES YOU A MONTH TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND RESPOND BACK TO US. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ARE WE ADJOURNED? MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. ALRIGHT. YEAH. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.