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[CALL TO ORDER]
AND WELCOME TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN'S ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD MEETING BEING HELD AT 5 5 5 5 PERIMETER DRIVE.THE MEETING CAN BE ACCESSED VIA LIVESTREAM ON VIDEO RECORDED, UM, AT THE CITY'S WEBSITE.
UH, YOU CAN ALSO ACCESS, UM, PRIOR MEETINGS ON THAT WEBSITE AS WELL.
UH, WE, WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN OUR CASES THIS EVENING.
UH, THE PROCEDURE FOR, UH, THIS EVENING FOR EACH CASE WILL BEGIN WITH A STAFF PRESENTATION, UH, FOLLOWED BY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO MAKE A PRESENTATION.
THE BOARD WILL THEN ASK CLARIFYING QUESTIONS OF THE STAFF AND THE APPLICANT.
UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL THEN BE, UH, REQUESTED, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS FIRST FROM THE PODIUM.
IF YOU DO CHOOSE TO ADDRESS THIS, YOU, WE WILL ASK YOU TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND YOUR ADDRESS.
UH, WE'LL ALSO THEN SEE IF THERE ARE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED BY EMAIL FOLLOWING THE PUBLIC COMMENTS.
THEN THE BOARD WILL DELIBERATE AND, UH, RENDER DECISIONS.
UH, WE BEGIN OUR MEETINGS WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, SO IF EVERYONE PRESENT WOULD STAND AND FACE THE FLAG.
JAMIE, WELCOME TO OUR MEETING.
WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL MR. ALEXANDER? HERE.
[ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS and APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
TO ACCEPT THE DOCUMENTS INTO THE RECORD AND APPROVE THE ARB MEETING MINUTES FROM OCTOBER 25TH? I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION TO APPROVE THE DOCUMENTS IN THE MINUTES.OUR, OUR BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE REVIEW OF CONSTRUCTION MODIFICATIONS OR ALTERATIONS TO ANY SITE IN THE AREA SUBJECT TO ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW UNDER THE PROVISION OF ZONING CODE SECTION 1 5 3 0.170.
UH, THE BOARD HAS THE DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY ON THESE CASES.
ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO ADDRESS US THIS EVENING MUST BE SWORN IN.
SO IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO ADDRESS US, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
DID YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THIS BOARD? THANK YOU.
ALRIGHT, OUR FIRST CASE IS CASE NUMBER
[Case #23-102ARB-INF]
23 DASH 1 0 2.THIS IS THE KNEE RESIDENCE AT 55 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET.
UM, THIS APPLICATION'S REQUEST FOR AN INFORMAL REVIEW AND FEEDBACK ON THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION OF A CON.
THE REPORT SAYS CONTRIBUTING DETACHED GARAGE AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN ATTACHED GARAGE WITH LIVING SPACE.
THE 0.3 ACRE SITE IS OWNED HDHR, HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AND IS LOCATED SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF SPRING HILL LANE AND SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET.
THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN AND THANK YOU FOR THAT INTRODUCTION.
UM, I'M JUST WAITING FOR THE SLIDES TO COME UP.
THIS IS INDEED 55 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET.
THE SITE IS AT THE CORNER OF SOUTH RIVERVIEW, SPRING HILL AND SOUTH BLACKSMITH AND IT IS ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL AND IT'S ALSO ADJACENT TO HISTORIC SOUTH AND HISTORIC CORE.
THIS IS A LARGE LOT OF OVER ONE THIRD OF AN ACRE AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE OUTLINE HERE, TAKING A LOOK AT SOME CONTEXT.
UH, BUILDINGS ONE, TWO, AND THREE ARE LOCATED ACROSS THE STREET ON THE WEST, NORTH AND EAST SIDES RESPECTIVELY.
BUILDING FOUR IS DIRECTLY SOUTH TO THE SUBJECT PARCEL.
THIS IS THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION.
IT'S A VERNACULAR STYLE HOUSE BUILT AROUND 1900 AND IT HAD AN ADDITION IN 2008.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT HAND PHOTO, THIS IS ANOTHER VIEW OF THE LOT FROM SPRING HILL AND
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YOU CAN SEE THE SIZE OF THE LOT.THE IRON FENCE AROUND THE PERIMETER AND THE HISTORIC AND CULTURAL ASSESSMENT INDICATES A STONE WALL ON THE SITE.
UH, THE OWNER DOES NOT, IS NOT AWARE OF A STONE WALL.
WE WILL, UM, CHECK INTO THAT MORE WITH MINOR PROJECT.
THIS IS THE EXISTING GARAGE THAT FACES SOUTH BLACKSMITH LANE AND IT IS CURRENTLY LISTED AS CONTRIBUTING IN THE HCA AND ON THE ACCOMPANYING MAP.
STAFF FEELS THAT THIS IS LIKELY A MISCLASSIFICATION FOR THE REASONS EXPLAINED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
THE APPLICANT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REQUEST A WAIVER TO RECLASSIFY THIS STRUCTURE AND THAT WOULD HAPPEN APPROPRIATELY AT THE MINOR PROJECT.
BUT WE DO HAVE A DISCUSSION QUESTION FOR YOU ON THAT TONIGHT.
UH, THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO DEMOLISH THE GARAGE TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE PROPOSED EDITION.
AND YOU'LL SEE THIS ON OUR NEXT SLIDE HERE.
THIS IS THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN SHOWING THE PROGRESSION OF ADDITIONS.
THE HISTORIC HOUSES ON THE RIGHT IN THE LIGHT BLUE.
THE 2008 EDITION IS IN THE MIDDLE, IN THE DARKER BLUE.
AND THEN THE 2023 REQUEST IS ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.
THE GARAGE BUILDING IS SHOWN IN YELLOW.
AND JUST TO NOTE THAT ALL SETBACKS AND LOT COVERAGE REQUIREMENTS ARE MET AT THIS STAGE WITH OF THE PROJECT GETTING INTO THE ELEVATIONS TO JUST CALL TO YOUR ATTENTION SOME HIGHLIGHTS ON THE NORTH ELEVATION.
YOU'LL SEE A DEEP HYPHEN REVEAL HERE, THE GABLE FORMS. UM, ON THE ADDITION, MEET THE CODE FOR PITCH THE WINDOW LOCATIONS, MEET THE GUIDELINES FOLLOWING HISTORIC PLACEMENT.
THERE IS A GABLE DECORATION OUT OF PON LOCATED HERE THAT WOULD REQUIRE A WAIVER AS DESCRIBED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
AND THE BOARD IS ALSO ASKED TO COMMENT ON THAT PARTICULAR ELEMENT.
IT DOES MATCH THE ELEMENTS THAT ARE ON THE FRONT PORCH EXISTING RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN ALSO OF NOTE ARE STANDING SEAM ROOFS ON THE HYPHEN AND THE EXISTING BAY WINDOW.
THIS ELEVATION IS, UH, THE ACCESS POINT FROM SOUTH BLACKSMITH LANE.
THERE ARE TWO GARAGE DOORS SHOWN AND THE CROSS GABLE HAS FOUR WINDOWS AND ALL LIGHTING AND MATERIALS WILL BE ADDRESSED AT THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW.
THE SOUTH ELEVATION INCLUDES THAT SAME CROSS GABLE FORM AND THE HYPHEN IS EMPHASIZED WITH A CHANGE IN MATERIALS.
THE STONE VENEER, ALTHOUGH NOT INSET AS MUCH AS ON THE NORTH ELEVATION, THE HYPHEN HAS HIGH HORIZONTAL WINDOWS FOR INTERIOR LIGHT IN THE DROP ZONE.
AND THEN THE MAIN WINDOWS, AGAIN, MEET THE GUIDELINES FOR THE HISTORIC PATTERNS.
AND WE HAVE THE FI POND GABLE DECORATION SHOWN AGAIN.
SO WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR TONIGHT.
DOES THE BOARD SUPPORT THE DEMOLITION OF THE GARAGE? DOES THE BOARD SUPPORT THE PROPOSED MASS AND SCALE OF THE ADDITION AND ITS RESPONSE TO THE GUIDELINES? DOES THE BOARD SUPPORT THE ADDITION OF DECORATIVE ELEMENTS TO THE HOUSE? AND THEN ANY OTHER COMMENTS THAT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO OFFER? AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
WILL THE, UM, THE ROOF PITCH REQUIRE A WAIVER? UM, ONE OF THE ROOF PITCH OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A DORMER FACING THE ALLEY IS A PRETTY LOW PITCH WILL THAT IT'S A LOW PITCH, BUT IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A WAIVER AT THIS POINT.
AS THE APPLICANT HERE, WOULD, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A PRESENTATION? RESIDENTIAL? GOTTA HIT YOUR BUTTON.
YOUR, YOUR MICROPHONES NOT ON.
DOMINIC LAPINO RESIDENTIAL DESIGN SOLUTIONS.
I'M THE ONE OF THE DESIGNERS FOR THIS PROJECT.
UM, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY NEW COMMENTS.
I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAD, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE, UM, WAIVER WE'RE ASKING FOR ON THE, UH, EXISTING GARAGE.
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SO YEAH, I HAD SOME QUESTIONS.SO OBVIOUSLY I DID NOT SEE A WEST WALL EITHER A STONEWALL, SO I KNOW THERE'S ONE THAT RUNS ON THE SOUTH SIDE ADJACENT TO THE FLOWERBED.
MAYBE THAT'S GOT TWISTED IN THE FACT, BUT I KNOW THAT'S WHERE THE EXISTING STONE WALL RUNS ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
ANGIE KNEE 55 SOUTH RIVERVIEW.
SO THERE IS, I ALSO SAID THE SAME THING TO STAFF THAT IT'S PROBABLY MAYBE JUST FLIPPED.
UM, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S HISTORIC TO MY KNOWLEDGE, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO TALK ABOUT IT IF IT IS.
'CAUSE PEOPLE PARK ON IT AND ALWAYS KNOCK AND DESTROY AND DAMAGE IT.
SO IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE COULD DO TO PROTECT IT, IF IT'S HISTORIC, THAT'D BE GREAT.
YEAH, I THINK THERE WAS A CONTINUATION OF THAT WALL ALONG BLACKSMITH ROAD THAT WENT TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY AND THEN CAME ACROSS SPRING MILL STOPPED, AND THEN IT CONTINUES ON ANOTHER TWO PROPERTIES DOWN.
SO AT SOME POINT IN TIME THERE WAS AN EXISTING, UH, WALL ON THAT WEST SIDE, BUT IT'S NO LONGER VISIBLE OR NOT.
MAYBE THAT'S WHERE THOSE STONES CAME FROM, FROM THE, UH, SOUTH SIDE FLOWER BEDS.
AND IT DOES, EVEN FROM OUR NEIGHBORS, IT IS A DIFFERENT DESIGN OF THE STONE.
SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY CONTINUOUS, BUT RIGHT.
YEAH, WE, WE LIKE THAT FEATURE.
IF ANYTHING, WE WANNA CONTINUE IT ON.
I THINK FROM SPRING PEOPLE JUST DRIVE OVER IT AND IT'S NOW RUBBLE ON THAT CORNER, SO.
BUT YES, MIKE AND I ARE HERE TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND LOOK FORWARD TO THE DIALOGUE AND YOUR FEEDBACK.
AND I KNOW THERE'S A LARGE TREE IN BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THAT FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT'S GONNA BE PROTECTED YES.
I JUST COULDN'T TELL FROM THE PHOTOS WHEN I WAS THERE THAT THAT WAS ON THERE.
AND THEN I KNOW BECK AND SOME OLD NOTES I WAS READING ON OCTOBER 16TH OF 9 20 19, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION THAT THE HOUSE ROOF WOULD PROBABLY NEED REPLACED IN ABOUT FIVE YEARS.
SO WE'RE GOING ON FOUR OR FIVE.
WILL THAT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE ROOFING WITH THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE OR, YES.
WHAT'S GONNA BE DONE THERE? YEAH, SO WE'LL, WE'LL REPLACE THE ENTIRE ROOF MINUS THE SEAM LINE WITH THE MUDROOM AREA AND THE BAY WINDOW JUST TO BREAK UP THE MASS.
BUT WE DO WANT THE SHINGLES TO BE CONSISTENT THROUGH THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.
SEAN? JUST, WELL, I MEAN JUST A COUPLE MAYBE FOR THE DESIGN.
I DON'T KNOW IF FOR SECOND, BUT I HAD A QUESTION.
JUST TWO THINGS THAT I GUESS WE CAN COME BACK TO THE FI TO THE DESIGN, BUT THE WINDOWS ON THE FACING THE SOUTH SIDE IN THE HYPHEN, 'CAUSE YOU HAVE THE ONE, IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND.
YOU HAVE THE FOUR, I THINK IT'S FOUR, FOUR OR FIVE ALONG THE TOP RIGHT THERE.
IS IT, IT'S A DOOR TO ACCESS AN EXISTING PATIO, SMALL PATIO THAT'S ON THAT SIDE.
THE, THE OWNERS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BENCH LOCKERS CONFIGURATION ALONG THAT WALL.
AND SO THAT'S WHY THE WINDOWS ARE UP HIGH.
FOR THE INTERIOR FINISH THE WINDOW BESIDE THE LONG WINDOW, THAT'S A WINDOW BESIDE THAT'S A DOOR.
AND THEN MAYBE I'LL ASK THE QUE ON THE, UH, DECORATIVE ELEMENT.
SO IF MATT, YOU'RE TRYING TO, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S THE PER, I MEAN, I KNOW YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN THE FRONT.
WELL, THERE, THERE ISN'T A, A GABLE, UM, DEC DECORATION ON THE EXISTING.
WE WOULD WANT TO TRY TO, ON THE PORCH, ON THE VICTORIAN PORCH THAT WAS ADDED IN THE NINETIES.
IT HAS NICE MILLWORK DETAILING.
SO WE WOULD KIND OF MIMIC THAT JUST IN THE GABLE.
YOU'RE TRYING TO MIMIC THE PORCH DETAILS THERE.
THERE'S A VICTORIAN TYPE SPINDLING AND, AND UH, UH, COLUMN WORK WITH SMALL BRACKETS ON THE NEW FRONT, UH, ON THE FRONT PORCH.
SO WE WANT TO MIMIC THAT AT THE NEW HYPHEN ENTRY THAT'S, UH, ON THE, UH, NORTH SIDE.
UM, BUT THE HOMEOWNERS WERE REQUESTING IF THEY COULD ASK, ALSO ADD TO ADD THIS ADDITIONAL DECORATION TO THE GABLE.
IF WE CAN HAVE THE UH, SLIDE UP PLEASE.
THEN, THEN THE BOARD CAN SEE OH, THAT'S WHERE YOU YES, THAT'D BE PERFECT.
SO THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY, THERE WE GO.
ADDITION TO THAT GABLE ON THE OLD PORTION OF THE HOUSE.
JUST THE AR LIKE JUST WHAT WAS ON THE PORCH.
SO WE WANNA THAT AT THE HEIGHT NEW EDITION.
SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT YEAH, THAT.
BUT IF WE COULD GO BACK TO THE, TO THE PIC JUST SO THAT I DON'T, DON'T KNOW WHICH PIC, THE, UH, THE WHICH YOU HAVE THAT, THAT DESIGN WILL BE ON THE HYPHEN PART.
IT'LL BE OUTTA THE GARAGE EDITION.
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I SEE THAT.WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT LAST, HERE IT COMES.
IT IS, YOU'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THERE'S NOT ANOTHER ONE ON THE HYPHEN THAT YOU WERE I WAS TRYING TO, YOU SAID THERE WAS ANOTHER WE PROPOSING THAT ON.
NOT ON THE, UH, BUT THE PORCH, THIS, THIS, THE HYPHEN HARD TO SEE ON THE SKETCH.
I KNOW, BUT I TRIED TO PORCH DETAIL AT, AT THE, AT THE, AT THE SPINDLES AT THE TOP.
AND THE, BUT THE, ON THE SOUTH SIDE, ON THE, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS HYPHEN, THE, THE OTHER GLASS THAT'S NOT A DOOR.
SO WE DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH HERE.
WE HAVE A, THE DEEPER THE, THE DOOR IS RECESSED BACK FROM THAT MORE THAN THREE FEET.
WELL I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO THAT PICTURE AS WELL.
IT'S READY TO LOOK AT, HERE WE GO.
SO THAT'S THE SOUTH ELEVATION.
CAN WE LOOK AT THE NORTH? I'M SORRY, WE WERE LOOKING AT THE NORTH.
SO I SEE IT THERE ON THE NORTH ELEVATION AND ON THE, AND ALSO ON THE SOUTH ACTUALLY ON THE GABLE OF THE NEW ADDITION.
BUT THERE WAS LANGUAGE THAT SAID YOU WANTED TO ALSO ADD IT TO THE PORCH OR I, MAYBE I MISINTERPRETED THAT IT WAS GONNA SOME ADDITIONAL DECORATIVE ACT, UH, DECORATIVE FIXTURES TO THE PORCH OR FRONT AREA.
WAS THAT CORRECT? SO I WANTED TO TALK WITH THE BOARD ON, WE DIDN'T HAVE IT, BUT THERE IS NO US.
BUT THINGS LIKE DECORATIVE ELEMENTS ON, WE'VE PUT THAT JUST HIGHLIGHT THE HOME A BIT MORE.
UM, FEEL OUR HOME BEING HISTORIC SHOULD BE ONE OF THOSE GEMS THAT NOW IT SEEMS IT'S KIND OF CROWN OF SOME OF THE NEWER HOMES AND OTHER THAT HAVE BEEN.
AND SO I'M JUST CURIOUS OF WHERE'S POSITION ON ALLOWING HISTORIC ANY CHARACTER OR IT NEEDS TO BE MOMENT IN TIME AND EVIDENCE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
AND TO FOLLOW UP, YOU, I BELIEVE STATED THAT THE, UH, PORCH ITSELF WAS AN ADD-ON, BUT WHEN WAS THAT ADDED ON? DO YOU KNOW? IT WAS PROBABLY, AND I GUESS THAT WAS MY POINT.
I KNOW THAT WOULDN'T GET APPROVED.
NOW IS THIS BOARD A NICE TEACHER IN THE HOME? AND IT DEFINITELY LOOKS NICE TO OTHERS THAT ARE WALKING BY.
SO YOU, I WOULD LOVE TO PULL IN SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS, STAFF SHARE THAT ADDITION MORE FLEXIBILITY TOGETHER, BUT PUSH BACK ON THAT AS WELL.
SO JUST WANTED TO OPEN THE DIALOGUE TO SEE WHAT YOU GUYS OPEN AND WHO I CAN WORK WITH TO SUPPORT MENTOR DUBLIN SOCIETY.
I WANNA BE MINDFUL ON WHAT WE, WE WE'LL ADDRESS THAT WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE POINTS OF, OF DELIBERATION.
BUT I WANNA SEE, I UNDERSTAND.
SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THAT.
ESPECIALLY SINCE I HAD HEARD YOU SAY IT WAS AN ADD-ON AND I WAS TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT PART.
WHAT, WHAT CONSIDERATION WAS GIVEN TO THE IMPACT OF THIS ON YOUR NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK HIM.
SO I HAVE, AND, AND I SUBMITTED THE LETTER, BUT HE IS AWARE THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO ADD TO THE HOME AND THE GARAGE AND I THINK HE WANTS TO DO THE SAME.
SO HE IS LIKE, TELL ME HOW IT GOES.
'CAUSE I ALSO WANNA LOOK AT THAT PROCESS AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
UM, SINCE HE ALSO HAS A DETACHED ONE CAR GARAGE, WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY UP
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TO TODAY'S LIVING STANDARDS.WHY DID YOU PLACE, YOU HAVE SO MUCH LAND, WHY DID YOU PLACE THE ADDITION DIRECTLY BEHIND WHICH BLOCKS LIGHT THAT'S CURRENTLY COMING INTO THAT, THAT ROOM AT THE BACK OF THE HOUSE AS OPPOSED TO OFFSETTING THE ADDITION? BECAUSE YOU HAVE, AS THE STAFF REPORT SAYS YOU HAVE ESSENTIALLY A LOT AND A HALF AND YOU HAVE ALL THAT SPACE OFF TO THE SIDE.
WELL SARAH, YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY A REQUIREMENT IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT THE, THE ADDITION BE FULLY BEHIND.
BUT WE'VE APPROVED OTHERS THAT ARE NOT.
AND SO IF YOU LOOK ON RIVERVIEW, WE HAVE APPROVED OTHERS THAT ARE TO THE SIDE.
SO, AND, AND I WE'VE TRIED THAT BELIEVE I BUT I BELIEVE YOU WERE ALSO VERY WANTING, WANTING TO KEEP AS MUCH YARD SPACE FOR YOUR CHILDREN AS POSSIBLE.
SO WE DID TALK WITH STAFF ON KEEPING THE ORIGINAL FOOTPRINT OF WHERE THE EXISTING GARAGE IS, WHICH IS TOWARDS THE SOUTH AND PUSHING IT MORE THERE TO JUST KEEP OUR YARD SPACE.
UM, AND TO MY UNDERSTANDING, WE HAVE TO STAY IN THE FOOTPRINT OF THE HOME EVEN THOUGH IT HAS BEEN APPROVED ELSEWHERE.
BUT I GUESS IF YOU'RE TELLING ME WE HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY, UNLESS YOU'RE SAYING IT HAS TO BE A DETACHED 'CAUSE WE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE CONNECTED TO THE HOME.
WELL, WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT, ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT WHEN WE GO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE OPTIONS.
BUT I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT YOUR THINKING WAS AND WHY YOU LOCATED WHERE YOU DID.
WE'LL, WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT IN A MOMENT.
UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT, 'CAUSE NOW THE, I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER, THE ONE BETWEEN THE TWO, THE ONE WAS YOUR NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH CERTAINLY ENDS UP IN A, I DON'T WANNA USE THE WORD A BIT OF A CANYON I GUESS YOU MIGHT SAY.
'CAUSE THAT BACKYARD REALLY ENDS UP, UH, BETWEEN TWO MM-HMM.
SO CERTAINLY A CON I DON'T KNOW A CONCERN, BUT CERTAINLY HOW, HOW DO YOU, YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T WANT YOUR NEIGHBOR TO BE, UM, END UP IN A, IN, IN A PLACE WHERE THEY'RE KINDA LOCKED IN.
AND WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT THAT AT THE LAST MEETING WE DID THE LAST MEETING.
WELL, I, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE THAT IN PREVIOUS DESIGNS WE DID HAVE THE ADDITION MORE NORTHWARD AND IT WAS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF THAT WE GO TO THIS DESIGN.
UM, ANY OTHER CLARIFYING QUESTIONS? OKAY.
DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? IS, IS THERE ANYBODY HERE WHO WANTS TO SPEAK TO THIS? OKAY.
WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT.
ALRIGHT, WE'LL WE'LL START OUR DISCUSSION.
UM, SO THE FIRST QUESTION THAT WAS UP IS ABOUT THE YEAH.
SO HOW DO BOARD MEMBERS FEEL ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF THE GARAGE? I'M OKAY WITH IT.
AND WE, SARAH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT WE WOULD, YOU HAD STATED THAT WE'D HAVE TO APPROVE A WAIVER TO CHANGE IT FROM CONTRIBUTING OR WHATEVER IT'S YES.
AND THAT'S A SIMPLE PROCESS THAT CAN BE FOLDED INTO THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW AND THERE IS THAT MECHANISM TO DO THAT IN OUR, UM, CODE RIGHT NOW.
SO THAT'S THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO DO IT.
'CAUSE I DON'T, I'M SEE IT'S SIGNIFICANT.
ARE, ARE WE, IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT.
ARE WE PRETTY CONFIDENT IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING? 'CAUSE THE ONE DOCUMENT SAID IT WAS BILLED IN 2007, THEN THERE'S OTHER DOCUMENTATION THAT SAYS IT EXISTED BEFORE THAT DATE.
WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANY BUILDING PERMITS FOR THAT GARAGE.
UM, 2007 IT SHOWS UP ON GOOGLE MAPS.
IS THE FRAMING EXPOSED IN YOUR GARAGE? YOU'RE PROBABLY REFERRING TO, IN MY NARRATIVE I GAVE AN APPROXIMATION OF WHEN I THOUGHT IT WAS BUILT AND THAT WAS BASED ON ME EXAMINING EXISTING CONSTRUCTION MATERIAL.
SO I LOOKED AT THE, UH, ROOF FRAMING TO BE SPECIFIC AND THE FOUNDATION.
UM, ALL OF THOSE THINGS INDICATED TO ME THAT IT WAS BUILT AFTER THE DEPRESSION PRIOR TO WHEN ROOF TRUSSES STARTED TO BE USED ON STRUCTURES LIKE THIS.
SO IT WAS SOMEPLACE BEFORE THE SIXTIES? JUST BEFORE THE SIXTIES I GUESSED.
AND I DID AN EXTENSIVE SEARCH AS WELL TRYING TO FIND, UM, YOU KNOW,
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WHEN IT WOULD SHOW UP ON SURVEYS WHEN IT WOULD, OR WHEN IT DIDN'T SHOW UP ON SURVEYS.AND THERE'S JUST A LARGE GAP INT BETWEEN IN BETWEEN.
SO SO YOU THINK IT WAS BUILT BEFORE 2007? I DO.
JUST BASED ON THE TYPE OF FOUNDATION THAT WAS USED.
SO WE DON'T KNOW REALLY WHETHER IT'S CONTRIBUTOR OR NOT
SO, UM, BUT IF WE CAN DEF IF WE CAN BE SURE THAT IT'S NOT DOES THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAVE ANYTHING? UH, WE DID NOT.
AND I DON'T KNOW OF ANY CONCERNS ON OUR SIDE AS WELL.
MAYBE I'M MISUNDER 'CAUSE IT 'CAUSE I LOOKED AT IT.
I MEAN, OUTSIDE LOOKS RELATIVELY NEW, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHEN.
IT COULD BE SOMETIME, AS YOU SAY, FROM THE THIRTIES TO THE SIXTIES.
SOME, OH, I, I I WOULD SAY FROM, FROM THE LATE FORTIES TO THE SIXTIES TO, TO 1960.
SO I THINK IF, IF WE CAN, IF WE'RE CLEAR IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING, THEN WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.
NONE OF US UP HERE HAVE A PROBLEM DEMOLISHING THE GARAGE.
SO THE, SO THE NEXT ONE IS, IS THE ONE WE PROBABLY SPENT THE MOST QUESTIONING YOU ABOUT IS THE SCALE AND MASSING OF THE SCALE MASSING LOCATION AND HOW BOARD MEMBERS FEEL ABOUT THAT.
NO, I MEAN, I THINK I, WE'VE SEEN SEVERAL BUILDINGS THAT WE'VE APPROVED THAT LOOK VERY SIMILAR TO THIS ONE.
SO I THINK FROM A SCALE OF I'M NOT, THE MASS AND THE SCALE ARE NOT AS CONCERNING TO ME AS THE NEIGHBOR.
AND JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SEE THE IMPACT THERE.
IT'S GONNA REALLY MAKE THAT A VERY, UH, LONG AND IT'S GONNA BE A CONFINED LOT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE, UH, ANYTHING FROM THE NEIGHBOR JUST, UH, GIVING ANY INDICATION ON WHAT, WHAT THAT COULD, WHAT THAT COULD LOOK LIKE.
UM, AS YOU SAY, COULD IT BE SLID OVER A LITTLE BIT? I MEAN, WE'D HAVE TO THINK THROUGH IF IT COULD BE SLID OVER A LITTLE BIT.
BUT EVEN THERE, I THINK EVEN WITH I, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT CHANGES A, EVEN IF YOU SLIDE IT OVER 10, 12 FEET, IT, IT STILL MAKES THE, THE, THE LOT IN A, IN A, IN A MIDDLE LOT, IN A STRANGE, LEAVES IT IN A BIT OF A SPOT WHERE, UH, IT COULD BE DARK INSIDE OF THERE.
IF IT'S SLID OVER THOUGH, THERE'S MORE EXPOSURE BETWEEN THAT LOT IN THE SPACE TO THE NORTHWEST.
SO YEAH, SO FOR THAT, THAT LOT, AND, AND THE REASON I ASKED THE QUESTIONS EARLIER ABOUT IT IS THE SAME POINT THAT SEAN'S MAKING, THAT IT CREATES A TUNNEL.
UM, AND THAT'S HOUSE, THAT'S TO YOUR SOUTH IS REALLY A VERY SMALL SCALE.
UM, AND, AND IT PUTS THEM IN THIS CHANNEL AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING, WE'RE GETTING RESPONSES TO, AND THAT THAT WALL IS STRAIGHT THAT'S BEEN CREATED ALONG THERE.
AND THAT'S WHAT THAT COMMENT, THE, THE LENGTHY DISCUSSION WE HAD LAST MONTH FROM THE ONE NEIGHBOR WHO WAS REACTING TO, HE SAID, SIMILAR APPROACH, YOU NEED TO KEEP THE REAR PART BEHIND.
IT WAS A NEW HOUSE, BUT IT'S A LONG WALL.
SO, UM, I I I, I HAVE LITTLE RESERVATION ABOUT THAT WHEN I THINK A LOT OF OUR CHALLENGES TOO, WITH ALL THOSE LOTS, THEY'RE LONG AND SKINNY SO THEY'RE NOT CONDUCIVE TO EXPANDING OUT.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT HAS ALSO PUT US IN CHALLENGE TOO.
AND I ALREADY BROUGHT UP TOO, IF WE MOVE THAT OVER, WHAT'S THE IMPACT GOING TO BE? LIKE THAT TREE THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL TREE IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, ARE WE GONNA LOSE? OKAY, SO YOU'RE GONNA GO, WE'RE MOVING IT THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.
YEAH, BUT I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S A CHALLENGE WITH THOSE LOTS.
LIKE YOU SAY, WHEN YOU GO DOWN THROUGH THERE, THEY'RE ALL LIKE TUNNEL VISION.
SO IF WE CAN REPROVE THAT, THAT'D BE A GREAT THOUGHT.
THIS IS LIKE, BECAUSE IT'S ALONG THE STREET AND YEP.
IT'S, WELL IT'S ALONG TWO STREETS, SO IT'S LIKE ALMOST TWO LOTS.
RIGHT? SO THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO SPREAD IT, TO MOVE IT OVER A LITTLE BIT.
PART OF IT IS THE, IT'S IT'S A BIT DECEIVING BECAUSE THE FENCE ON THE SOUTH SIDE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
THE FENCE, THE FENCE IS OFF THE PROPERTY LINE BY ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE, FOUR FEET.
I'VE GOT IT SHOWN THERE WHERE THE FENCE IS AND WHERE THE EXISTING TREE IS.
SO IT'S A, IT'S A LITTLE, UM, DECEIVING IF YOU ASSUME THAT THE TREE IS, IS, UM, ON THEIR PROPERTY AND HOW CLOSE WE ARE.
AND JUST TO NOTE THAT THE EXISTING GARAGE YOU CAN SEE IS MUCH CLOSER TO THE PROPERTY LINE THAN THE ADDITION.
SEE THE EXISTING GARAGE APPROXIMATE.
I JUST, THE SPACIAL PATTERN JUST WANTED, THAT'S IN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
[00:30:01]
YOU LOOK AT IT IN PERSON, IT'S DECEIVING BECAUSE OF WHERE YOU ASSUME THE PROPERTY LINE IS, WHERE THE DIVISION BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES ARE.BECAUSE THE OTHER OPTION IN A, IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, I WOULD'VE, I WOULD SUPPORT A VARIANCE FOR YOU TO HAVE A TWO STORY DETACHED GARAGE BECAUSE I, AND, AND PUT THAT BONUS ROOM OVER THE GARAGE, BUT DETACHED IT BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE, IT'S MORE A PATTERN THAT IS WHAT YOU SEE IN A TRADITIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH A DETACHED STRUCTURE.
NOW WE NEED VARIANCES FOR THAT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE MORE IN CHARACTER WITH A HISTORIC DISTRICT THAN THESE THINGS THAT WE'RE CREATING HERE.
I JUST SAID, I KNOW THAT, UH, WE CAME UP HERE IN 2019 AND GOT A A, A DETACHED APPROVED SINCE THEN.
UM, THERE'S ABOUT, WE HAD A, A TRAFFIC SURVEY ON THAT BACK ALLEY AND IT'S 1100 CARS A DAY GO BACK AND FORTH THROUGH THERE.
AND SO THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE DIDN'T MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
WE'VE GOT TWO SMALL CHILDREN YOU CAN SEE RIGHT NOW WHERE YOU GUYS TOOK THAT PICTURE AT.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO ROOM.
UH, WE'RE VERY, WE WANTED TO MOVE IT CLOSER JUST TO GIVE US SOME LIFE SPACE AND SOME, UH, UH, AWAY FROM TRAFFIC AS WELL.
SO THAT, THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOTIVATING FACTORS OF MOVING IT CLOSER TO THE HOUSE, GIVING US A LITTLE BIT OF AREA FOR, FOR THE CHILDREN TO PLAY AND JUST, I MEAN, THOSE CARS WHIZZING OUT.
SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS A BIG MOTIVATING FACTOR.
AND SO I KNOW ON, ON ALSO ON THAT, UM, THAT UH, UH, SLIDE, IF YOU LOOK THAT, UM, THAT BACK VIEW, AND I KNOW IT'S A, IT'S ALREADY KIND OF A TUNNEL RIGHT NOW OF WHERE OUR GARAGE CURRENTLY IS LIKE THAT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT PICTURE FROM THE BACK, THAT UH, THAT TRAILER, THAT REAR TIRE OF THAT TRAILER IS STILL OUR PROPERTY OVER THERE TOO, JUST FOR REFERENCE.
THAT, CAN I INTERRUPT FOR A MOMENT? EXCUSE ME, MR. CHAIR, WOULD YOU MIND STATING YOUR NAME? YEAH, MIKE KNEE.
YEAH, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THAT RIGHT, THAT, UM, WHEEL RIGHT THERE, UH, WE'RE GOOD FRIENDS WITH BRAD, BUT THAT WHEEL RIGHT THERE ON THAT TRAILER IS STILL OUR PROPERTY.
SO YEAH, IT'S ALSO A GOOFY ANGLE, BUT JUST, JUST FOR REFERENCE.
MARTY, ANY FEELINGS ABOUT THE LOCATION, SCALE, MASSING? WELL, I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DID PROPOSE IT IN A LINEAR FASHION BASED ON HOW OUR CURRENT RULES ARE AND, AND MANY OF OUR PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROCESSES.
I ALSO APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THEY DO HAVE A LARGER LOT.
SO I'M NOT TRYING TO DICTATE HOW THE DESIGN IS DONE, BUT PERHAPS IT WOULD BE A MORE INTERESTING OR VARIED LOOK IF IT WERE OFFSET.
SO THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT I WOULDN'T SUPPORT THE LINEAR DESIGN AS SUBMITTED.
IT'S JUST TO SAY THAT IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UH, THE, AT LEAST A FEW OF US ON THE BOARD WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF AS WELL.
MY ONLY THOUGHT WITH THAT, AND I ACTUALLY ASK THIS OF THE BOARD MEMBERS NOT THE
THEY'VE ALREADY GOT AN OUTBUILDING THERE.
AND IF IT'S HYPHENATED SOMEHOW, THAT'S A WORD WE USE IN ARCHITECTURE.
UM, IF IT'S HYPHENATED TO THE HOUSE SOMEHOW SO THAT YOU DON'T SEE THE HYPHEN OR SOMETHING, THEN IT WOULD JUST LOOK LIKE THE HISTORIC OUTBUILDINGS FROM THE FRONT, WHICH MAYBE ISN'T SO BAD.
AND I AGREE WITH THE LARGER LOT GIVES YOU THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT.
UM, SO THE HYPHEN, SO BASICALLY THE HYPHEN WOULD RUN BACK, BUT THEN THE ADDITION WOULD BE, THE OFFSET WOULD BE, I'M JUST IMAGINING IT JUST SO THAT IT FROM THE FRONT AGAIN, DOESN'T LOOK, I, I THINK IT'S SO FAR IT WOULD, IF IT'S DONE AND WE'RE NOT, WE MAKE SUGGESTIONS, THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS FOLLOWED.
BUT IF, IF IT IS OFFSET, THE WAY I'VE SUGGESTED IT'S SET SO FAR BACK THAT THE FRONT IS STILL GOING TO DOMINATE AND THIS HOUSE ALREADY HAS AN ADDITION, HAS THE HOUSE, THEN AN ADDITION, AND THEN THIS.
SO I, I DON'T THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, IT, IT WOULD IMPACT THE FRONT AT ALL.
'CAUSE IT'S STILL SO DEEP, SO DEEP IN THE LOT.
UM, AND I'M NOT SAYING THE WHOLE, I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT THE ENTIRE DISH HAS MOVED, YOU KNOW, TIGHT
[00:35:01]
TO THE SIDE ALLEY.NO, JUST, JUST OVER A LITTLE BIT MORE.
SO THERE'S MORE SPACE AND THAT OTHER HOUSE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE, UM, I MEAN IT, LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE CREATING A TUNNEL THERE AND, AND WE'RE ALSO CREATING, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR CODE, SOME CODES HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A LONG WALL PROVISION AND THEY IN FACT DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR CODE TO DISSUADE APPLICANTS FROM MAKING LONG CONTINUOUS WALLS BECAUSE IT DOES CREATE A WALL ON THE NE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF, WELL JUST THROUGH A LOT, LOT ISSUES.
YEAH, NO, I, AND I, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I'M ACTUALLY FINE WITH THAT IDEA.
UM, AGAIN, BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD LOOK LIKE A HISTORIC OUTBUILDING OR NOT A HISTORIC OUTBUILDING, BUT ALONG THOSE IDEAS OF, UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT A HOUSE AND YOU SEE THE OUTBUILDING THERE, THAT'S, IT'S COMMON IN THAT AREA.
UM, I ALSO DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE GETTING DOWN.
THERE WAS A BUNCH OF TUNNELS WITH THE LONG HOUSES.
UM, AND I LIKE MARTY, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHY YOU BUILT OR WHY YOU DESIGNED IT IN LINE.
THAT'S WHAT THE CODE REQUIRES OR SUGGESTS.
UM, SO IN SUMMARY, I WOULD BE OPEN TO OTHER OPTIONS.
SOUNDS NO, I MEAN JUST WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT MAYBE WHERE, WHICH WAY ARE YOU GONNA MOVE? SORRY, TALK ABOUT THE DECORATION.
I WAS JUST GONNA MAKE, I JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL OKAY WITH THE REST OF THE MASS, RIGHT? I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT SITS, BUT, AND JUST GENERALLY I THINK THAT GOOD QUESTION.
I THINK FOR ME, I THINK GOOD QUESTION FROM THAT STANDPOINT, THE HEIGHT LOOK FOR ME IS REASONABLE.
IT'S WHAT WE'VE APPROVED BEFORE.
IT'S, I WOULD SAY IT'S NOT, IT FITS INSIDE, INSIDE THE CODE.
SO FOR ME, AND I LIKE HOW YOU KEPT THE BOARD AND BATTEN, I LIKE THE STANDING SEAM ROOF.
YOU'RE GONNA RE YOU'RE GONNA RESHINGLE THE WHOLE THING.
IT AT SOME POINT, I THINK, SO FOR ME, MASS, I MEAN FROM A MASSING STANDPOINT, I PERSONALLY THINK IT'S, IT'S OKAY.
IT'S WHAT WE'VE APPROVED BEFORE AND I ACT, ACTUALLY THINK HOW IT LOOKS.
IT LOOKS GOOD ON THE BACK OF THAT HOUSE.
SO IT'S, I'M, I'M OKAY JUST FROM A MASSING STANDPOINT.
AND I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF THE INITIAL QUESTION TOO.
ARE WE OKAY WITH THE MASS IN THE WAY DESIGNED? I'M FINE WITH IT.
IT, IT'S AS FAR AS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND ALL THE BUSINESS IS ABOUT THAT.
UM, I, I ON THE, ON THE PORCH.
I LIKE HOW YOU PUTTING SOMETHING THERE THAT TIES THAT PORCH TO THE FRONT PORCH? UH, OKAY.
THE OTHER OTHER ONE, THE ONE, I HAVE TO SAY, THE ONE LOOKING AT THE TOP, I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHY YOU WANT IT.
I MAYBE YOU'D HAVE TO GIVE ME A LITTLE, I'M NOT SURE WHY IT, UH, THAT ONE I WAS NOT SURE HOW IT TIED TO THE, HOW DOES IT FIT TO THE FRONT? THE, THE PORT, THE PORCH FEST FENESTRATION? DOES THAT HAVE THE WORD FOR ME? I THINK WAS, IT WAS GOOD.
BUT THE ONE IN THE GABLE JUST MAYBE WHAT WHY YES, I JUST LIKE THE DETAILING.
UM, I FEEL HOW IT'S DRAWN, IT DOES, IT LOOKS MORE, MORE MILLWORK THAN IT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
BUT IT WAS, I THINK JUST DRAWN THAT WAY JUST SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE THAT SOMETHING WOULD BE THERE.
BUT I HAVE A PICTURE OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE ON THE PORCH AND HOW WE WOULD JUST ANGLE IT TO KIND OF TIE INTO IT.
BUT JUST ADDING SOME DETAIL, JUST CHARACTER AND IMPROVE THE AESTHETICS OF THE HOUSE BASICALLY.
SO, BUT I'M OPEN TO OTHERS IF YOU'RE LIKE, NOPE, I DON'T LIKE THAT.
BUT I'M GOOD WITH COULD YOU MAYBE DESCRIBE, YOU SAY YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF IT AND I CAN SEE YOU DO IN YOUR MIND, BUT COULD YOU DESCRIBE IT TO US? UM, DO YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF THE HOUSE? THERE'S ONE 'CAUSE IT'S KIND OF, THERE'S AN ANGLE OF THE PIECE THAT I WANT AND I CAN SEND IT TO SARAH AND OBVIOUSLY PRESENT NEXT TIME WE SEE YOU GUYS ON WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
BUT IT'S JUST ON THE CURRENT PORCH IN A CORNER IS LIKE KIND OF A DESIGN.
SO IT WOULD BE TYING INTO THE PORCH? IT WOULD, YES.
YEAH, THAT DETAIL IS JUST 'CAUSE IT LOOKS, I DIDN'T SEE, I SEE THE ONE HOW YOU'RE DOING THE ONE THE, THE LOWER PORCH ON THE, ON THE HYPHEN TIES INTO THE HOW THE, HOW THE PORTING.
BUT THE OTHER ONE FOR ME, YES, FEELS OUT OF PLACE UNLESS, UNLESS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE, THE CORNER.
IT'S LOOKING AT THE CORNER CORNER.
SO RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU, YOU SEE THE GUTTER, THERE'S LIKE A CORNER ELEMENT, DECORATIVE ELEMENT THERE.
IT'S HARD TO SEE IT, BUT WE WOULD JUST TAKE THAT SAME DESIGN AND JUST PUT IT INTO THE GABLE THERE.
AND YOU HAD MENTIONED TOO, I MEAN, KIND OF BEING CONSISTENT, WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH THAT TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, DECORATION OR THE, AND I'M NOT SURE WHERE THOSE LOCATIONS ARE.
IT WOULD BE, THIS IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE HAVE DOWN RIVERVIEW AND NOT A LOT ON HIGH STREET.
SO THE GABLE DETAILING IN THERE WOULDN'T BE MORE ON THE PORCH.
I WAS REFERRING TO THE OTHER THINGS
[00:40:01]
LIKE THAT I WAS WORKING WITH OR MENTIONING LIKE WHETHER IT BE SHUTTERS, LIKE THERE ARE BRICK HOMES THAT HAVE SHUTTERS OR THERE ARE, UM, HOMES THAT HAVE LIKE THE LINTEL DETAILING OVER THAT, THAT ARE ON BRICK BUILDINGS.THOSE SORTS OF THINGS THAT WE COULD ADD THAT JUST ADD MORE CHARACTER, BUT NOT THAT SPECIFIC PIECE.
AND WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT ADDING THEN, SINCE YOU HAD DISCUSSED ADDING SOME TO THE FRONT AREA, UM, THE GABLES IN THE FRONT, WERE YOU GOING TO PROPOSE THAT AS WELL? I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU GUYS THINK.
I THINK WHAT I'VE HEARD IS NOTHING SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE HISTORICAL BUILDINGS UNLESS WE HAVE PROOF, BUT WE HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY ON THE ADDITION.
SO MINE WAS TO KEEP IT AS DESIGNED UNLESS YOU GUYS FEEL FREE THAT WE CAN EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS.
ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WITH YOUR HOUSE AND A LOT OF THE HOMES IN THE DISTRICT IS THEY'RE NOT HIGH STYLE.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE WHAT WE CALL VERNACULAR.
SO THEY'RE RATHER SIMPLE STRUCTURES AND THE GOAL.
AND SO, AND, AND THE GOAL IS TO MAINTAIN THAT CHARACTER.
I DON'T THINK THE PORCH DON'T LET, DON'T TAKE THE PORS AWAY PLEASE,
I I DON'T LIKE NERVOUS TO EVEN MENTION IT.
WHAT I'M SAYING, NO, WE WOULD NEVER DO THAT.
BUT, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT PORCH WAS APPROVED.
UH, BECAUSE IT IS, IT CERTAINLY, YEAH, IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A, A PORCH THAT'S APPROPRIATE TO A VERNACULAR STRUCTURE.
BE BECAUSE CLEARLY THERE'S A CONTRADICTION IN WHAT I'M TELLING YOU AND WHAT'S OCCURRED AT YOUR HOUSE.
SO, BUT, SO THAT'S THE POINT WHERE WE START, OKAY, WHAT SIMPLE VERNACULAR STRUCTURE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF ORNAMENT AND A LOT OF, A LOT OF DETAIL LIKE, UM, ON HIGH STREET, MR. STEEL'S BUILDING, WHICH HAS, UM, THE INVESTMENT, THE YELLOW AND WHITE TRIM, AND IT HAS A BEAUTIFUL, UH, PORCH THERE AND IT HAS A LOT OF FRET WORK IN, IN THAT PORCH.
UM, BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT STYLE.
SO IT, IT, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT FOR US TO, UM, APPROVE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU START ADDING DETAIL.
AND, AND THE THE OTHER THING TOO IS IN THE NEW BUILD WE DON'T ADVOCATE FAKE HISTORICISM.
SO IS THERE A WAY TO, AND, AND, AND BY THE WAY, THE BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING IS SOMETHING THAT COMES FROM MORE VERNACULAR STRUCTURES.
IT'S, IT COMES FROM RANCH HOMES.
AND SO WHEN YOU TAKE THAT AND YOU USE IT, AND I THINK THE DESIGNER'S INTENT OF, OF MAKING THE ADDITIONS DISTINCT FROM THE ORIGINAL HOUSE BY USING THAT COMMON MATERIAL IS REALLY GOOD.
SO I THINK THAT ALL MAKES SENSE.
BUT WHEN YOU, YOU CHOOSE A VERNACULAR, UM, MATERIAL AND THEN YOU START ADDING THESE HIGHLY DETAILED ELEMENTS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CONFLICT THERE TOO.
SO IF YOU COULD ABSTRACT OR YOUR DESIGNER COULD COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF SIMPLER GABLE TRIM, MAYBE THAT WOULD, WE COULD, WE COULD AGREE WITH THAT IN THE ADDITION.
BUT APPLYING SOMETHING THAT'S MADE TO LOOK VICTORIAN AND YOUR ADDITION'S NOT, UM, I THINK IT, IT PRESENTS PROBLEMS FOR US ON A COUPLE DIFFERENT LEVELS.
SO WOULD, I GUESS, SO I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS CLEARLY.
SO EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD TIE INTO THE PORCH, THAT WOULD LOOK FAKE AND YOU WOULD WANT SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T TIE INTO THE PORCH JUST SO PEOPLE AREN'T CONFUSED OR DIFFERENT WAY THAT ORIGINAL DIFFERENT OR A DIFFERENT WAY.
SO MAYBE THERE'S SOME, SOME WAY YOU HAVE SOME VERTICALS THAT ARE CLOSELY SPACED, BUT THE, BUT THE VERTICALS AREN'T LIKE SPUN AND THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF, UM, WHAT LOOK LIKE PRO PROFILES ON THEM.
SO THERE'S A SIMPLIFIED WAY OF DOING IT.
SO, BUT I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MORE AND, AND I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK IT, IT CAN BE A LITERAL FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, BUT I, BUT I DON'T THINK OUR CODE WANTS A LITERAL DUPLICATION OF SOME OLD ORNAMENT APPLIED TO THE NEW STRUCTURE.
PARTICULARLY WHEN THE NEW STRUCTURE, IT'S NOT, NOT THE THING YOU'D EXPECT ON THE NEW STRUCTURE.
SO SOMETHING DIFFERENT OR REMOVE IT ALTOGETHER IS WHAT I'M HEARING SOMETHING SIMPLER.
I WOULD SAY, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, SIMPLER, SIMPLER, MORE, MORE THAN FITZ BEEN SIMPLER.
I, IT'S HARD FOR ME, IT'S HARD TO VISUALIZE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.
BUT I THINK AS A BOARD WE HAVE NOT NECESSARILY TO ADDRESS IT HERE, BUT THE NEXT TIME THE FI POND COMES UP, BECAUSE SINCE WE APPROVED IN SOME GABLE EVENTS, THE CITY COUNCIL HAS UM, REALLY MADE A COMMITMENT
[00:45:01]
THAT EVERYTHING THE COMMUNITY DOES IS GONNA BE AS SUSTAINABLE AS POSSIBLE.AND PRODUCTS THAT USE FOAM, WE KNOW WE DON'T ALLOW, WE DON'T ALLOW VINYL AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY THAT'S LIKE THE NEXT ASBESTOS.
SO PRODUCTS THAT USE FOAM, I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO QUESTION WHETHER WE SHOULD BE, WE SHOULD BE USING THOSE BECAUSE OF THE SUSTAINABILITY ISSUES.
SO, UM, IT, SO IF YOU COME UP WITH SOME TRIM WORK, IF IT'S OUTTA WOOD, YOU KNOW, THEN, THEN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FOLLOWING ACTUALLY THE DIRECTION WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO FOLLOW.
BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF THAT WHEN WE APPROVE SOME OF THESE MATERIALS.
UM, ARE THERE OTHER, OTHER ISSUES THAT WE SHOULD ADDRESS ON THIS? NOT FOR ME.
UM, APPLICANTS, DO YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS FOR US? JUST CLARIFY.
UM, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF, UM, A COUPLE OF GOING BACK TO POSSIBLY OFFSETTING THE, THE ADDITION TO THE NORTH, UM, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST IS AN APPROPRIATE OFFSET TO ELIMINATE THAT TUNNEL EFFECT? I KNOW THAT I'M ASKING, I I I'M GONNA HAVE TO COME UP WITH A DESIGN THAT INCORPORATES BOTH THE CLIENT'S NEED FOR YARD SPACE, HOW THEIR CHILDREN ARE GONNA USE THE SPACE, HOW THEY WANT TO USE THE SPACE OF COURSE.
AND YOUR DESIRE TO ELIMINATE THAT EFFECT.
AND I WAS JUST HO WONDERING IF YOU HAD ANY HELP WITH THAT? UH, CAN DO WE HAVE A SITE PLAN OR CAN WE PUT THE FLOOR PLAN BACK UP? YES, IT, I HAVE IT BROUGHT UP.
AND, AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT, ARE YOU STILL RECOMMENDING THAT ACCESS TO THE GARAGE BE FROM BLACKSMITH OR ARE YOU SUGGESTING POSSIBLY OFF A SPRING HILL? I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HAVING THE DRIVEWAY TOO CLOSE TO THE CORNER.
I'D PREFER TO HAVE THE DRIVEWAY'S ACCESS AS FAR AWAY FROM A CORNER OF STREETS AS POSSIBLE.
I I, I'M, I'M PERFECTLY OKAY WITH WHERE IT'S AT.
I MEAN IT'S WHERE IT IS TODAY.
SO AND I WOULD AGREE IF YOU GET IT FARTHER THAT WAY, THAT CORNER ALREADY IS, UH, YOU DRIVE DOWN THERE, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE DRIVEWAY.
SO HERE YOU, IF YOU SLID IT DOWN, YOU WOULD MOVE IT DOWN 10 FEET OR YOU, IT, IT WOULD END UP A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE CORNER, BUT I WOULDN'T WANT IT TO COME OFF THE OTHER WAY.
IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE ASKING, STAY ON BLACKSMITH FOR ME IT WOULD UH, IT WOULD STAY.
SUGGESTING IT COME OFF SPRING HILL LANE, NOT THE NORTHERN CORNER.
YOU WERE NO, I WAS JUST ASKING WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY CREATING THIS OFF MOVING THE ADDITION TO THE NORTH, WERE YOU CONSIDERING I WAS, I WAS THINKING LEAVING IT WHERE IT WAS, I WAS LEAVING ON THE, ON ON WHERE IT HAVE IT DRAWN AND SO WOULD I NATURALLY YEP.
THEN MY CONCERN ABOUT TOO CLOSE TO CORNER BOTH.
IT REALLY NEEDS TO STAY ON BLACKSMITH.
'CAUSE UH, I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST TOO BUSY ON I THINK YEAH, EITHER WAY.
AND I THINK FOR ME, IF IT WAS EIGHT FEET I FROM IT'S SAME THING I'M THINKING.
I MEAN NOT IF YOU JUST PUSH IT EIGHT FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
EIGHT, EIGHT FEET FROM A DISTINCT HOUSE CORNER EIGHT FEET FROM WHERE IT IS NOW.
SO INSTEAD OF SIX INSTEAD INSTEAD OF 16, YOU HAD 24 6 THERE.
SO, SO YOU, SO WE'RE NOT PUSHING THE WHOLE THING OVER THERE.
WE'RE JUST PROVIDING MORE RELIEF ALONG THAT WALL.
I SORT OF PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT I APPRECIATE FEEDBACK.
GIVE ME A, IS IT EIGHT FEET OR IS IT 28? THAT'S WHAT I, YEAH, YEAH.
NO, I MEAN THAT'S, I THINK IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO GET FOR ME WHEN I LOOK DOWN THE THING, JUST SOMETHING TO GET IT.
'CAUSE AS YOU SAY, WE'VE HAD RESIDENT CERTAINLY PEOPLE THERE SAYING THE LONG WALL WALLS ARE, SAY OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AREA ARE FINDING THEM A BIT OBTRUSIVE AT SOME POINT.
AND IF YOU JUST GIVE IT SOME, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S EIGHT FEET OR 10 FEET, BUT JUST SOMETHING TO GET IT SO THAT IT, IT GIVES THE ILLUSION THAT IT, THERE'S, IT'S MORE SPACE FOR THE, FOR THE HOUSE TO THE SOUTH.
THAT'S, I DON'T, AND AGAIN, I DON'T, I'M WITH GARY, I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE MUCH THIS WAY, UH, TO MOVING THE THE STRUCTURE TO THE NORTH.
AND YOU'VE ALREADY GOT QUITE A BIT OF PROPERTY THERE ON THE SOUTH SIDE ANYWAY 'CAUSE WE ALREADY SAW WITH THE TRAILER ALREADY WAY OVER.
MM-HMM
[00:50:01]
THERE TOO ON THE SOUTH SIDE IF YOU MOVED IT OVER A LITTLE BIT AND TO SHIFT THAT HYPHEN DOWN, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT? AND I THINK YOU DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE ARE PROPOSING REMOVING A LOT OF THAT CONCRETE TO THE UH, SOUTH.AND THE DRIVEWAY ENTER FROM BLACKSMITH.
RIGHT NOW THE TWO DRIVEWAYS OF THE PROPERTIES ARE MERGED TOGETHER AND WE'D LIKE TO GET THEM SEPARATED.
I I AND I ACTUALLY THINK YOU'LL BENEFIT IF YOUR NEIGHBOR DOES THEIR ADDITION BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA GET MORE SOUTH EXPOSURE BEING OFF OF THAT PROPERTY LINE MORE IF THEY DO THAT ADDITION.
SO, AND, AND EIGHT FEET IS STILL GONNA, YOU'RE STILL GONNA RETAIN SO MUCH OF YOUR YARD OVER THERE.
BUT, BUT I THINK IT'S BETTER FOR THE, MY OWN FEELING AND, AND I THINK THERE'S A COMFORT LEVEL HERE IF YOU DO SHIFT IT, I THINK IF YOU CAME BACK WITH IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS, SOME OF US WOULD HAVE ISSUES WITH THE SIDING.
'CAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT WE HEARD FROM STAFF.
SO
BUT YES, I THINK WE'RE FINE WITH THAT.
MY THOUGHT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF BLACKSMITH THERE IS A PARKING LOT TO A BUSINESS.
LIKE IS THERE ANY CONCERNS ON, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ONE ENTRYWAY INTO A RESIDENTIAL AND ONE ENTRYWAY INTO A PARKING LOT? LIKE IS THERE, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT OR IF IT MATTERS, IS IT LIKE THE CABINET COMPANY? IS THAT WHAT THAT IS DIRECTLY FROM UM, THE CABINET COMPANIES KIND OF DIRECTLY, BUT IT'S THE COFFEE SHOP.
I FORGET WHAT OH THAT'S COFFEE.
BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW, I'M ASSUMING THAT'S NOT, NOT YOU GUYS BUT IF WE COULD FIGURE OUT WHO THAT WOULD BE TO, TO SEE IF THAT'S GONNA BE AN ISSUE OF ENGINEERING WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
BUT YOU COULD CERTAINLY, I CAN GET YOU THE CONTACT OF WHO TO TALK TO.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY MORE BUT I THANK YOU FOR THINKING AHEAD WITH THAT IDEA.
I APPRECIATE THAT WE'VE BEEN, YEAH, IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS SO THANK YOU.
[Case #23-109ARB-INF]
OUR SECOND CASE.THIS IS CASE NUMBER 23 DASH 1 0 9.
THIS IS 1622 NORTH HIGH STREET.
THE APPLICATION'S REQUEST FOR REVIEW AND FEEDBACK FOR PROPOSED THREE STORY MIXED USE BUILDING HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE 0.26 ACRE SITE IS ZONED HD HC HISTORIC CORE DISTRICT AND IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 65 FEET NORTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION NORTH HIGH STREET IN EACH EAST BRIDGE STREET.
AND RODDY WILL BE OUR PRESENTER.
THANK YOU AND GOOD EVENING BOARD MEMBERS, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR AN INFORMAL REVIEW FOR A MIXED USE BUILDING AT 1622 NORTH HIGH STREET.
THE 0.26 ACRE SITE IS LOCATED NORTHEAST AT THE INTERSECTION OF NORTH HIGH STREET AND THE EAST BRI STREET.
THE SITE IS ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC COAL WITH HISTORIC COAL ON THE NORTH, SOUTH AND WEST OF THE PROPERTY AND HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL ALONG THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
THERE HAS BEEN SEVERAL MINOR PROJECT APPLICATIONS IN THE PAST FOR SITE AND SIGN IMPROVEMENTS.
ALL THE FURTHER DETAILS ARE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT SLIDE HERE SHOWS EXISTING BUILDINGS AROUND THE PROPERTY SITE HERE IS HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW.
THE BUILDINGS 1, 2 3 WHICH ARE SEEN ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN ARE DIRECTLY OPPOSITE TO THE PROPOSED TO THE SITE.
THESE BUILDINGS WERE BUILT DURING THE YEAR 2007.
THE BUILDINGS FOUR AND FIVE ARE ADJACENT TO 1622 NORTH HIGH STREET AND PHOTOS OF THESE BUILDINGS ARE SENIOR ON THE RIGHT.
THIS IS THE CLOSER LOOK OF THE PROPERTY THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
BOTH THE BUILDINGS ARE INDIVIDUALLY LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES.
16 NORTH, WHICH IS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, WAS BUILT AROUND 1943 AND 22 NORTH HIGH STREET WAS BUILT AROUND 1,916.
NORTH WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT AS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME WITH A RECTANGLE OF FOOTPRINT AND A TWO STORY COAL.
THERE ARE TWO GABLE WALL DORMERS WHICH CAN BE SEEN AND THE CURRENTLY THE BUILDING USES THE LIMESTONE AND THE STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF.
THE CURRENT USE OF THE BUILDING IS COMMERCIAL 22 NORTH HIGH 22 NORTH HIGH STREET, WHICH IS SEEN ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE WAS BUILT AS A DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND CURRENTLY THE USE IS ALSO COMMERCIAL.
THIS IS A QUEEN AND STYLE BUILDING, WHICH ALSO HAS A RECTANGULAR FOOTPRINT WITH A VERY HIP CORE ROOF.
THE BUILDING HAS A WOOD SIDING AND A METAL ROOF AND A VERY INQU SPINDLE WORK ON THE PORCH
[00:55:05]
SEEN.HERE ARE THE SIDE PHOTOS AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.
THE FIRST PHOTO HIGHLIGHTED HERE IS THE REAR OF THE 22 NORTH HIGH STREET.
APPLICANT IS PROPOSING NO MODIFICATIONS OF FACADE IMPROVEMENTS ON THIS.
THESE TWO PHOTOS ARE OF UNUSABLE NON-CONTRIBUTING GARAGE.
IT IS LOCATED AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY AND FACES THE BLACKSMITH LANE THE LAST FIRST OF SENIOR, WHICH IS AT THE BOTTOM.
IT IS ACTUALLY THE DIRT FLOOR SHED, WHICH IS LOCATED AT THE REAR OF THE 16 NORTH HIGH STREET.
THE SHED IS NOT ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE.
STAFF IS ALSO CONFIRMED WITH THE LAW OFFICE AND THE LAW OFFICE HAS CONFIRMED THAT BOTH THE PARKING AS WELL AS THE DIRT FLOOR SHED IS NON-CONTRIBUTING.
THIS PLAN WILL SHOW THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AS WELL AS THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE FACING THE NORTH HIGH STREET ARE THE TWO EXISTING BUILDING 16 NORTH AND 22 NORTH.
THE SITE HAS A SIGNIFICANT GRADE CHANGE FROM WEST TO THE EAST WITH SOME MATURITIES WHICH ARE LOCATED AT THE REAR.
WITH THE FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN, A TREE SERVER WILL BE REQUIRED AND AT THE REAR OF THE 16 NORTH HIGHLIGHTED HERE IN RED IS THE DIRT FLOOR SHED HIGHLIGHTED.
IN THE SECOND RECTANGLE ON THE RIGHT IS ACTUALLY THE GARAGE WHICH FACES THE NORTH BLACKEST LANE.
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO DEMOLISH THESE BOTH STRUCTURES AND AS DISCUSSED IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, THE LAW OFFICE IS CONFIRMED THAT THIS IS NON-CONTRIBUTING.
THERE IS ALSO AN ASPHALT DRIVEWAY WHICH CONNECTS THE NORTH HIGH STREET TO THE NORTH BLACKSMITH LANE.
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO DECONSTRUCT THE EXISTING ASPHALT DRIVE WHICH EXISTS BETWEEN THE 16 AND THE 22 NORTH.
THIS IS THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN.
THE PROPOSAL INCLUDES A MIXED USE BUILDING WITH THE APPROXIMATELY 2000 SQUARE FEET OF THE FIRST WORKPLACE SPACE.
THE BUILDING HAS A FRONTAGE TOWARDS NORTH HIGH STREET ALONG WITH A PROPOSED POCKET PLAZA BETWEEN 16 NORTH AND 22 NORTH.
AND THIS IS TO CREATE A PEDESTRIAN CORRIDOR FROM THE NORTH HIGH STREET.
THE VEHICULAR ACCESS TO THE SITE IS PROPOSED FROM THE BLACKSMITH LANE, WHICH IS SHOWN HERE IN BLACK.
AND APPLICANT PROPOSES SIX PARKING SPACES FOR THE COMMERCIAL USERS, WHICH INCLUDES TWO AD SPACES.
BASED ON THE PROPOSED AND THE EXISTING COMMERCIAL AREA.
APPROXIMATELY 12 PARKING SPACES WILL BE REQUIRED.
THESE PARKING SPACES CAN BE FULFILLED BY ONSITE OFFSITE OR BY USING A PARKING STRUCTURE.
A PARKING PLAN WILL BE REQUIRED ON THE SECOND AND THE THIRD FLOOR.
THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TWO 1700 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENTS.
THESE APARTMENTS WILL HAVE INDIVIDUAL GARAGES AND WITH ACCESS FROM THE NORTH BLACKSMITH LANE, THE APARTMENTS WILL ALSO HAVE A PEDESTRIAN ACCESS BOTH FROM THE NORTH BLACKSMITH LANE AS WELL AS FROM THE NORTH HIGH STREET.
THE PEDESTRIAN ENTRANCES ARE SHOWN HERE IN GREEN AS WELL AS THE VEHICULAR ARE SHOWN HERE IN BLACK.
THE NEXT FEW SLIDES WILL DISCUSS THE MOSS AS WELL AS THE RESPONSE TO THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.
WE CAN SEE THE PROPOSED SOUTHWEST VIEW OF 16 NORTH HIGH STREET WITH 22 NORTH HIGH STREET AND 16 NORTH IN THE FRONT.
THE PEDESTRIAN ENTRANCE HERE IS SEEN WITH A GREEN ARROW.
THIS IS A CLOSER LOOK OF THE WEST FACADE, WHICH FACES THE NORTH HIGH STREET.
IT IS A THREE-STORY BUILDING WITH COMMERCIAL SPACE ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND DUPLEX APARTMENTS ON THE SECOND AND THE THIRD FLOOR.
THE SECOND AND THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE BUILDING ARE SIMPLE OID FORMS WITH A VERY SYMMETRICAL FACADE ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT SIDE.
AT THE BOTTOM WE CAN SEE THE PROPOSED PRIVATE ENTRANCES TO THE APARTMENTS.
AS OF NOW PROPOSED, THE TOTAL BUILDING HEIGHT IS 30 FEET FOR THE APPLICANT.
UM, FOR THE MATERIALS THE APPLICANT PROPOSES A COMBINATION OF LIMESTONE, WALL WOOD SIDING AS WELL AS WOOD SHAKE SIDING.
AND THESE MATERIALS ARE DISPLAYED ON THE FACADE AT DIFFERENT LEVELS.
THIS IS THE PROPOSED NORTHEAST VIEW.
ON THE TOP LEFT IS THE AERIAL VIEW FROM THE NORTHEAST, WHICH SHOWS THE REAR FACADE AS WELL AS THE NEARBY PROPERTIES.
THE IMAGE IN THE RIGHT SHOWS THE PROPOSED REAR ELEVATION OR THE EAST ELEVATION AND IT FACES THE BLACKSMITH LANE.
HERE WE CAN SEE THE PROPOSED VEHICULAR ENTRANCE AS WELL AS THE PROPOSED ENTRANCE TO THE GARAGES AS WELL AS THE PEDESTRIAN ENTRANCE.
THE UPPER LEVEL IS PROPOSED WITH THE OFFICE SPACE, WHICH IS THE FIRST FLOOR, WHICH IS ACCESS FROM THE NORTH HIGH STREET.
[01:00:01]
ARE ACTUALLY THE RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS WITH BALCONIES THAT FACES THE SIDE RIVER.THIS IS ANOTHER VIEW WHICH IS FROM NORTH BLACKSMITH LANE AND WHICH ALSO SHOWS THE NORTH ELEVATION.
THE PROPOSED BUILDING IS AT THE FIVE FEET SET BACK FROM THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
HOWEVER, ZERO FEET SET BACK FROM THE NORTH OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
HOWEVER, THE NORTHERN FACADE SHOW IS SHOWN HERE WITH NUMEROUS FENESTRATIONS AND OPENING ON THIS FACADE WILL NOT BE PERMITTED DUE TO THE APPROXIMATELY OF ITS CLOSENESS TO THE SITE AT THE JULY ARB MEETING.
UM, THE GIS STAFF SHARE THE ARCES URBAN TOOL AND THE BASE MAP OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF IS WORKING WITH THE GIS TEAM AS WELL AS THE CONSULTANT TO CREATE SOME MORE THREE D MODELS AND PRODUCE SOME RENDERINGS WHICH WILL SHOW THE MOSS WITH RESPECT TO THE PROPOSAL.
IN ADDITION TO THE PROPOSED MATERIALS THAT WE DISCUSSED PRIOR, WHICH WAS THE WOOD SHAKE, SIDING, LIMESTONE WALLS, WOOD SIDING, AND STANDING SEA METAL ROOF, APPLICANT PROPOSES COLORS FROM THE PRE-APPROVED HISTORIC PAINT COLORS.
WITH THIS WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSION CUSHIONS FOR THE BOAT.
DOES THE BOAT SUPPORT THE DEMOLITION OF THE DIRT SHED AND THE EXISTING NON-CONTRIBUTING GARAGE? DOES THE BOAT SUPPORT THE PROPOSED USE FOR THE INFILL DEVELOPMENT? DOES THE BOAT SUPPORT THE DESIGN CONCEPT, MASSING HEIGHT AND THE OVERALL ARCHITECTURE? AND DOES THE BOAT SUPPORT THE PROPOSED MATERIAL PALETTE? AND IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS BY THE BOARD.
WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
WE HAVE APPLICANT IN ATTENDANCE TODAY AND I DON'T THINK WE'VE RECEIVED ANY PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANY INITIAL QUESTIONS FOR RODDY? I HAVE JUST A SIMPLE QUESTION.
UM, I THINK WE HAVE SOMEPLACE, AND MAYBE IT ONLY PERTAINS TO EXISTING STRUCTURES ABOUT THE NUMBER OF COLORS, UM, THAT ONE CAN USE THE NUMBER, NOT THE COLOR THEMSELVES.
DOES IT PERTAIN TO NEW BUILDS? WE HAVE SOME GUIDANCE IN THE PRE-APPROVED PAINT COLOR DOCUMENT THAT TALKS ABOUT, IF I WERE, IS THIS SOMETHING LIKE THREE? UH, THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER, YES.
SO THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE AN ISSUE HERE.
IS THE APPLICANT OR APPLICANT'S PRESENT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A PRESENTATION? UH, JOE PICONE, UM, ARCHITECT ON THE PROJECT.
UM, I'D LIKE TO THANK THE BOARD FOR ALLOWING US TO MAKE THIS PRESENTATION AND TO GET THIS FEEDBACK AND A SPECIAL THANKS TO STAFF WHO'S PUT UP WITH A LOT OF PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS AND ZOOM CALLS.
AND ACTUALLY A IN-PERSON, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, OR MAYBE A MONTH OR SO AGO, WE HAD A, UM, A MEETING WITH THEM AND, AND IT WAS A VERY INFORMATIVE MEETING AND IT TOTALLY CHANGED OUR DIRECTION.
SO WE'RE APPRECIATIVE OF THAT.
UM, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO SEE THE GIS SLIDE AGAIN? UH, THE IMAGE, UH, THE ONE THAT WAS PRODUCED, THE HISTORIC? YEAH.
UH, FRANKLY, I, I HAVE TO SAY, I THINK THIS IS AN UNFORTUNATE CHOICE OF THE, OF A VIEW FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
UM, IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE TO HAVE, UM, A MORE REALISTIC, UM, INFORMATIVE, UM, VIEW, UH, FOR, WITH, WITH THE CONTEXT.
UM, FRANKLY, I THINK IT'S DECEIVING.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, I, I UNDERSTAND WITH, UH, THE NEW WORLD OF DRONES AND SATELLITE IMAGERY AND EVERYTHING, THIS IS NOT TOTALLY, UM, UNACHIEVABLE, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT REPRESENTATIONAL OF WHAT WE TRY TO ACHIEVE.
AND THAT IS TO CREATE A BUILDING FOR OUR CLIENT.
AND BY OUR CLIENT, I DON'T MEAN ORGE THE OWNER, I MEAN OUR CLIENT, THE PEDESTRIAN.
THIS BUILDING IS DEVELOPED FOR THE PEDESTRIAN.
UM, THE POCKET PARK IS A OPPORTUNITY FOR PEDESTRIANS TO ENTER THIS SITE.
THE, UM, BLACKSMITH LANE, UH, DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS GOING TO BE EXTRAORDINARY, UM, TO THE EAST INTO THE NORTH, UH, REALLY
[01:05:01]
WAS A MAJOR OPPORTUNITY FOR US.AND IN OUR MEETING WITH STAFF, WE LEARNED, AND THEY REALLY SHOWED ME AND TOTALLY CHANGED THE DESIGN BECAUSE WE REALIZED THIS BUILDING DOESN'T HAVE A FRONT, FRONT IN THE BACK.
IT HAS ESSENTIALLY TWO FRONTS.
IT HAS A FRONT OFF OF HIGH STREET, AND IT HAS A FRONT OFF OF BLACKSMITH.
AND BOTH OF THOSE FACADES ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
UM, SO WE, THAT POSED SOME, SOME CHALLENGES FOR US, AND THE SITE HAS SOME CHALLENGES, UM, BUT IT ALSO HAS SOME OPPORTUNITIES, PROBABLY LIKE LIFE, I GUESS, IN GENERAL.
BUT THE, THE MAIN, UM, CHALLENGE IS DEALING WITH THE GRADE CHANGE.
THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT GRADE CHANGE IN A VERY SHORT DISTANCE ON THIS SITE, BUT THAT'S ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, THAT CAUSED THESE TWO FRONT ELEVATIONS TO HAVE SORT OF A CONFLICT IN A DUALITY, IN, IN THE SENSE THAT IN A THREE STORY BUILDING FROM OUR HIGH STREET, UH, FACADE, AND A THREE STORY BUILDING FROM OUR, UM, BLACKSMITH FACADE HAD TO STILL ADHERE TO THE 30 FOOT HEIGHT REQUIREMENT.
THAT IS WHY WE CHOSE TO PUT THE DORMER ON THE WEST SIDE, THE HIGH STREET SIDE, OUT TO THE FACADE, TO THE EXTERIOR, UM, BUILDING, UH, UH, FACADE.
BECAUSE THAT ALLOWED US TO STILL MAINTAIN THE HEIGHT RESTRICTION AND TO CAPTURE MORE SPACE FOR THESE LUXURY APARTMENTS.
FRANKLY, IN THE BACK, WE HAD A DIFFERENT CHALLENGE.
WE HAD TO PROVIDE GARAGES, WHICH WE THINK ARE GOING TO BE NECESSARY FOR THIS PRICE POINT.
UM, AND WE HAD TO LIMIT THE HEIGHT AND STILL PROVIDE SPACE.
SO WE CHOSE TO TAKE THE DORMER IN THE BACK AND SLIDE IT TOWARD THE WEST, BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A BUILDING FOR FLYING CARS AND DRONES.
THIS IS A BUILDING FOR PEOPLE, PEOPLE WALKING TO AND FROM A LONG BLACKSMITH IN OUR POCKET PARK.
THE, THIS IS GOING TO BE SEEN FROM THE GROUND.
AND HOW, HOW THAT IMPACTS THESE PEDESTRIANS IS WHAT WE THINK IS IMPORTANT.
I MEAN, THIS IS, IS THIS IS A ONE OF THE MOST HISTORIC SITES IN THIS, IN THE, IN THE CITY.
WE THINK OF IT AS A SACRED SITE.
AND, AND I MEAN THAT SINCERELY, IT'S SACRED GROUND.
UM, AND, UM, SO BY CREATING THESE SHIFTING OF DORMERS, IT ALLOWED US TO CREATE THE ILLUSION OF A LOWER BUILDING.
OF COURSE, IT'S NOT GONNA BE SHOWN IN A DOOR IN A, IT'S NOT GONNA BE SEEN IN A DRONED IMAGE BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, AND I DID HAVE MODELS OF, UH, OF THE BUILDING, UM, AERIAL SHOTS.
BUT THAT WAS JUST TO CONVEY THE DESIGN INTENT AS OPPOSED TO THE IMAGERY THAT WOULD BE SEEN BY THE PEDESTRIAN.
SO I JUST SUGGEST THAT MAYBE WE LOOK AT THE BUILDING FROM THE CLIENT'S POINT OF VIEW, WHICH IS GOING TO BE AS WE, AS THEY WALK UP AND DOWN BLACKSMITH AND ENTER IN THROUGH THE POCKET PARK.
UM, AND THAT'S REALLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE THERE.
UM, AS FAR AS COLORS ARE CONCERNED, WE, YOU HAVE THIS BLANK SLATE.
UM, WE CHOSE, UM, A LAP SIDING BECAUSE THAT'S CONTEXTUAL.
WE CHOSE A, UM, STONE THAT WOULD MIMIC THE HISTORIC DUBLIN STONE WALLS.
WE CHOSE A, UH, SHAKE BECAUSE THE EXISTING ADDITION HAS A SHAKE.
UH, AND THOSE WHY WE CHOSE THOSE THREE MATERIALS, IF, IF YOU PREFER FEWER THAN FOUR MATERIALS, WE WOULD CERTAINLY BE OPEN TO THAT.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, OUR INTENTION IS NOT TO TELL YOU WHAT SHOULD BE DONE HERE.
OUR INTENTION IS TO CREATE A DIALOGUE AMONGST ALL OF US AND FIND OUT WHAT WE CAN DO TO BE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE COMMUNITY.
I MEAN, MY OFFICE IS A FEW MILES AWAY IN DUBLIN.
UH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO BE THE GUY WHO DESTROYED THE SACRED GROUND.
UM, BUT THAT'S ABOUT ALL I REALLY HAD TO SAY AT THIS POINT.
[01:10:01]
HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE.ANY INITIAL QUESTIONS? UH, MAYBE JUST A COUPLE.
SO I'M JUST, AS YOU LOOK AT IT, JUST AS YOU THINK ABOUT THE WHOLE SITE AND YOU LOOK NORTH, SO YOU HAVE THE LOW BUILDING TO THE NORTH, AND YOU HAVE THE, WELL, THE HIGHER BUILDING.
HOW DO YOU, I HAVE TO SAY ON ONE SIDE, ON THE NORTH SIDE, THE, I DUNNO WHAT KIND OF BUILDING THAT IS, BUT THAT SMALL SHED INDUSTRIAL YEAH.
I MEAN, HOW DO YOU SEE IT INTEGRATING IN THAT? 'CAUSE I SEE YOU HAVE A, IT'S KIND OF A PATIO KIND OF THING, KIND OF LOOKING IN THE SIDE, JUST, I MEAN, YEAH.
GIMME A, SEE, MY FIRST REACTION WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BACK IS HOW DOES, HOW DO YOU SEE THAT INTEGRATING TO THE, WE, FRANKLY, WE DON'T WANNA SEE IT.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S REALLY AN EYESORE.
IT'S, UM, IT'S AN INDUSTRIAL BUILDING.
IT'S NOT IN THE GREATEST SHAPE.
WE WANNA LOOK OVER IT, WE WANNA LOOK AT THE BRIDGE, WE WANNA LOOK AT THE NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN.
THAT'S WHY THE BALCONIES ARE STRATEGICALLY LOCATED IN THE CORNERS LIKE THAT.
AND THEN THERE'S A MAJOR VIEW THAT WE HAVE, WE, WE CUT THE HEIGHT OF THE DORMER ON THE BACKSIDE, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, SO THAT WE COULD STILL KEEP A VIEW OUT TO BRIDGE PARK AND ALL OF THE GREAT THINGS TO SEE.
I MEAN, UM, I'M NOT SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE NEIGHBOR, BUT WE HAVE TO CAPITALIZE ON OUR OPPORTUNITIES.
AND, AND, AND REALLY THOSE, I I, I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THOSE BUILDERS ARE EVEN GONNA BE THERE, FRANKLY.
UM, WE TRIED TO KEEP A LITTLE BIT OFF THE PROPERTY LINE TO, IN HOPES THAT SOMETHING WOULD HAPPEN THERE AND THE CONSTRUCTION WOULD, WOULD NOT, UH, INTERFERE WITH OUR EXISTING BUILDING.
YOU KNOW, AND THEN MAYBE JUST ONE MORE, JUST TO CLARIFY.
'CAUSE THE STONE, UH, THE STONE AROUND THE BOTTOM, AND I LOOK AT THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, IT LOOKS LIKE IT KIND OF MIMICS THE FLOOR.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIMICS THE FOUNDATION KIND OF HOLDING UP THE FIRST FLOOR A BIT, BUT THEN WHEN IT WRAPS AROUND, IT BECOMES A WALL.
WHEN I SAW THAT, IT LOOKED, IT LOOKED A BIT STRANGE.
AND I JUST, HOW DO YOU SEE, BECAUSE IT WRAPS AROUND A WALL, BUT IT ENDS UP, IT ENDS UP LOOKING LIKE THE FLOOR.
SO IT JUST, AND HONESTLY, I, I JUST WANTED TO CREATE MORE STONE.
I MEAN, UM, IT, IT, IT, IT IS A RETAINING WALL.
UH, THE, THE IMAGES WERE MODELED IN, IN REVIT.
AND REVIT REQUIRES US TO PUT IN THIS, THE ACTUAL ENGINEERING BEHIND THIS.
SO BASICALLY THAT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A, A CONCRETE BLOCK WALL WITH THE BRICK VENEER.
AND THEN, SO IT WOULD BE A RETAINING WALL THAT COMES AROUND AND, AND WE'RE OPEN.
I I THOUGHT SOME VERTICALITY THERE AT THE CORNERS WOULD, WOULD ACCENTUATE THE STONE.
I DI I DIDN'T WANT THE STONE TO JUST BE AN AFTERTHOUGHT.
I WANTED IT TO BE INTEGRATED INTO THE DESIGN.
AND IF, IF YOU PREFER LESS STONE, THAT'S CERTAINLY, IT JUST SAYS, IT, IT, IT LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE THE FLOOR.
AND THEN IN THE FRONT, IT'S NOT THE FLOOR ANYMORE.
SO IT'S JUST A, SO YOU'RE JUST, YOU'RE JUST USING IT MORE AS A VISUAL INDICATE.
IT COMES AROUND AND IT'S CONTINUOUS TO THE FRONT.
AND, AND WE, AND WE TRIED TO INCORPORATE IT IN THE WEST FACADE, THE WEST FRONT FACADE.
UM, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF STONE IN THERE TO TIE IN THE STONE.
I, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE DUBLIN WALLS ARE HISTORIC.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, UNTIL I MET WITH STAFF, I NEVER REALIZED HOW MUCH.
UH, AND, AND IT'S, UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANTED TO MIMIC AND PAY HOMAGE TO.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND CONTINUE THE INTEGRITY OF THIS SITE.
I MEAN, THIS, ONCE THIS THING IS BUILT, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD ANYTHING ELSE.
AND THIS, THIS, THIS PROPERTY IS SO UNIQUE AND, AND, UH, UM, I, I'M JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, ENJOYING BEING PART OF IT, FRANKLY, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
I MEAN, MY FIRST THOUGHT, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON WITH THIS PROPERTY CURRENTLY, AND, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A RADICAL CHANGE TO WHAT'S, THEY'RE NOW LOSING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TREES.
DO WE KNOW ANY HISTORIC THING ABOUT THAT FOUR DOOR GARAGE THAT WAS BUILT UNDERGROUND, SARAH, AND THERE HAD TO BE SOMETHING ON TOP OF THAT AT SOME POINT IN TIME? 'CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S BLOCK.
AND I KNOW THIS FROM JUST HAVING SEEN IT ON THE SITE.
AND, UM, WE DID HAVE FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNER, UM, AN APPLICATION THAT DID NOT MAKE IT TO THIS BOARD TO DEMOLISH THAT STRUCTURE.
SO I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH.
UM, IT IS BUILT INTO THE SLOPE.
IT HAS CONCRETE BLOCK KIND OF ON THE BACK THREE LEVELS, OR THE BACK THREE WALLS RATHER.
AND THEN IT HAS, YOU KNOW, THIS FACADE, THIS BOARD FACADE WITH
[01:15:01]
THE ROLLING DOORS, UM, LIKE MOST OF OUR OUTBUILDINGS, THEY WERE NOT A PART OF THE HISTORIC AND CULTURAL ASSESSMENT IN 2017.AND WE'RE WORKING TO REMEDY THAT, UM, WITH PHASE TWO OF THE HISTORIC CODE UPDATE.
UM, WELL NEXT QUARTER IN 2024.
SO THAT SAID, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION ON THIS.
IT'S ALSO IN PRETTY BAD CONDITION FOR THE WOOD STRUCTURE, I'M ASSUMING THE BLOCK STRUCTURES.
IT'S SOUND AND, AND IT'S SOUND.
AND I, I, I, I STUDY, AS I STUDIED THIS SITE, IT DID APPEAR THAT THERE WAS A STRUCTURE ABOVE THERE AND IT'S BUILT INTO THE HILLSIDE.
AND THAT'S WHAT SORT OF STARTED GENERATING THESE THOUGHTS OF OKAY.
AND, AND THEN WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT THE ORIGINAL BUILDING WAS, WE WERE ORIGINALLY THINKING OF A RESTAURANT TO GO ON THE FIRST FLOOR, THEN WE FOUND OUT THAT THIS, HISTORICALLY, THIS WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF DUBLIN WHO HAD, UH, I BELIEVE, UM, I, UH, AND THEY HAD A, UM, THEIR OFFICE, UH, WAS IN AN EYE DOCTOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I THINK AN EYE DOCTOR IN HIS OFFICE WAS IN ONE OF THE BUILDINGS AND UH, I THINK IT WAS, UM, 16 OR, YEAH.
AND THEN IN 22 HE HAD HIS RESIDENCE.
SO I SAW THAT AS MIXED USE OFFICE, RESIDENTIAL
SO WE DECIDED TO ABANDON THE RESTAURANT IDEA AND DO SOMETHING THAT WAS HISTORIC AND MAKE IT MIXED USE OFFICE RESIDENTIALLY.
UM, AND THERE WAS SOME COMMUNICATION THERE TOO FROM UH, I THINK IT WAS ANN ADAMS. IS ANN HERE? YEP.
DO CAN I ASK YOU A QUICK QUESTION OR? WELL, WE'RE GONNA HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT HERE IN A MINUTE.
SHE'S ACTUALLY OUR BOSS, SO NO, AH, FOR ME AND ADAMS. OKAY.
SO I KNOW YOU HAD SOME COMMUNICATION WITH KATCH, AND DID YOU EVER HEAR FROM MATT AT ALL? I NEVER HEARD BACK FROM 'EM, NO.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO IF YOU CAN'T PUT THE WINDOWS IN THE NORTH SIDE, UH, WINDOWS IN THE NORTH SIDE? UM, RODDY'S ON IN THE STAFF REPORT BECAUSE THE FIRE RATING AND THE, THE PERMITTED AMOUNT OF OPENINGS THAT CLOSE TO A PROPERTY LINE, UM, THEY'RE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT RESTRICTIONS.
SO I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR DESIGN, OR HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU ADDRESS? WELL, WE WOULDN'T, WE WOULDN'T HAVE, UH, I MAY HAVE SHOWN WINDOWS ON THE OFFICE LEVEL, BUT THAT WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE ANYWAY.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, MOST, WE HAVE A LOT OF OFFICE WINDOWS EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE RESIDENTIAL.
IF WE CAN KEEP THE WINDOWS ON THE NORTH, SOUTH AND WEST FACADES, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE KITCHENS AND OTHER SPACES IN THERE THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY APPROPRIATE.
IT'LL, IT'LL BE THE BUILDING CODE.
AND, UM, THERE ARE DIFFERENT PARAMETERS AS YOU GET WITHIN, AS YOU KNOW, AS YOU GET RIGHT.
WITHIN DIFFERENT DISTANCES OF THAT PROPERTY LINE.
AND THEY EITHER REQUIRE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF FIRE RATING OR A LIMITED PERCENTAGE OF OPENINGS ALONG THERE.
AND, AND I HAVE A FEELING FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN OTHER PROJECTS THAT YOU, YOU MAY HAVE DIFFICULTY, AND I THINK THE STAFF IS ALLUDING TO THAT IN THEIR PORT.
YOU MAY HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH ALL THOSE WINDOWS, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER FIRST FLOOR OR UP ABOVE THAT.
I, UH, THAT WOULD PROBABLY, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY COME OUT DURING A CODE REVIEW AS WE GET, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS MORE OF A, A DESIGN THAT I WANTED TO CREATE THAT LOOKED GOOD AND, AND WORKED FUNCTIONALLY.
AND WE DIDN'T REALLY DO A FULL CODE REVEAL.
I HAVE TO BE, AND, AND I KNOW, UM, THERE ARE HEIGHT ISSUES AS YOU GO HIGHER ABOVE.
I MEAN, I, I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO STUDY THAT.
BUT IF WE DO HAVE TO REMOVE THOSE WINDOWS, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR, WE HAVE ACTUALLY AN ELEVATOR IN THE BUILDING, UH, TO GO THAT GOES YOU, THAT, THAT ENTRY ON THE LOWER FLOOR, UH, WHICH IS WAS THE IDEA OF STAFF THAT I STOLE.
BUT, UM, THEY, THAT ENTRY ON THE LOWER FLOOR IS, UM, I IS IN A, INTO A LITTLE, UM, LOBBY, LIKE A, UH, SORT OF A NEW YORK, UH, KIND OF A THEME.
[01:20:01]
THAT AND YOU GO UP BYPASSING THE FIRST FLOOR, THE COMMERCIAL FLOOR, UM, AND THEN UP TO THE APARTMENT.SO, UM, THERE LIMITS YOU ON WHERE YOU CAN PUT, WE MAY HAVE TO ACTUALLY REMOVE SOME OF THE OTHER WINDOWS ON THE OTHER FACADE AS I DEVELOP THE PLANS A LITTLE BIT MORE.
BUT, BUT I DON'T SEE THAT AS A PROBLEM BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE CIRCULATION WORKS WITH THIS ELEVATOR LOBBY AND HOW YOU'RE GONNA GET OFF THE LOBBY.
AND THEN THAT'S GOING TO BE, UM, SORT OF AN ENTRY FOYER AND THEN A KITCHEN.
AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME CATHEDRAL SPACES AND SOME REALLY COOL, UM, I MEAN, I, I THINK, UH, I THINK ORE'S PLAN IS TO SOMETIME TO RETIRE THERE PROBABLY IN 60 YEARS.
ANY OTHER INITIAL QUESTIONS? OKAY.
HAVE WE HAD ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? EITHER ANYBODY HERE WANTS TO SPEAK TO THIS? OKAY.
UM, WELL, WE'LL START WITH THE, WITH THE, THE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
SO HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF THE TWO STRUCTURES? THEY'RE NON, WE, WE'VE SAID THEY'RE NON-CONTRIBUTING.
THAT'S HOW WE'VE, THAT'S HOW WE'VE CLASSIFIED THEM.
SO, I MEAN, I'M, I'M, AND THEY'RE, WELL, I DIDN'T LOOK AT THE ONE IN THE, IN THE FRONT, BUT THE ONE IN THE BACK IS CERTAINLY IN VERY ROUGH SHAPE.
I MEAN, I, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU CAN PUSH THE THING OVER.
SO IN GENERAL, UM, THEY'RE NON-CONTRIBUTING.
I MEAN, I KNOW MIKE, YOU, YOU'VE LOOKED AT 'EM IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL.
MAYBE THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS THERE THAT YOU'VE LOOKED AT FROM THE HISTORICAL SIDE, BUT I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE INSTANCE WHERE YOU CAN'T REALLY IDENTIFY WHAT WAS EXISTING YEAH.
PRIOR TO IN THE HISTORICAL GROUP.
AND NOBODY HAS ANY THAT BLOCK BUILDINGS.
I WENT OUT THERE AND I'M THE G WE DIDN'T DO A, A SURVEY, UH, TO GET THE TO A TREE SURVEY, BUT I TRIED TO MARK EACH TREE WITH A LASER.
UM, AND YOU'LL FIND, UM, THERE ARE, ARE A LOT OF TREES, SOME OF WHICH ARE VERY, UM, MATURE, BUT THEY'RE ALL IN VERY BAD PLACES.
I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY, AND I THINK I ILLUSTRATE THAT ON THAT TREE SURVEY THAT I DID PERSONALLY, UM, AT THE CORNERS OF THE, THE EXISTING GARAGE, THEY'RE LITERALLY, LITERALLY GROWING OUT OF THE FOUNDATION IN THOSE AREAS.
THERE'S, ON THE PROPERTY LINE ON THE NORTH ARE SEVERAL TREES.
THE EXISTING, UH, DIRT FLOOR SHED HAS, UH, TWO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS, IT'LL ILLUSTRATE THAT.
UM, WE WANNA KEEP, UH, ALL THE TREES ON THE PROPERTY LINE TO THE SOUTH ARE ALL THE TREES THAT ARE WORTH SALVAGING.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME GOOD TREES THERE.
THE, THE, THE ONE EVERGREEN TREE SCARES ME, FRANKLY.
IT'S UM, IT'S A REALLY TOP HEAVY TREE.
THEY TYPICALLY, UM, AND HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.
UM, AND HER, UH, SHE, SHE WORKED AS A LANDSCAPER AND, UM, AND SHE'S CONCERNED ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A DEEP ROOT STRUCTURE AND IT'S A HUGE TREE.
UM, IT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE REMOVED IN OUR CONCEPT, BUT WE WOULD REALLY, AND THAT'S THE ONE I THINK MARKED, UH, WHATEVER THAT IS THERE.
30, THE ONE, UM, RIGHT NEXT TO, UH, 22 THERE TO THE EAST OF 22, THE SOUTHEAST, THAT THAT IS A DANGEROUS TREE.
UM, AND I KNOW IT'S BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT IT'S JUST NOT, IT'S NOT GETTING ANY SMALLER.
BUT ALL OF THOSE TREES ON THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THOSE MAINTAINED.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE ACTUALLY ON OUR PROPERTY LINE A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
BUT YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THOSE TREES, UM, NEXT TO THE EXISTING GARAGE.
I MEAN, I DON'T SEE HOW THOSE ARE SALVAGEABLE, UM, UNDER, YOU KNOW, ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REALLY.
UH, BUT, BUT WE'VE, WE'VE CONSIDERED THE TREES.
WE WANNA MAINTAIN AS MANY TREES AS POSSIBLE.
AND, UM, THAT'S BASICALLY ALL I HAD TO SAY.
UM, MARTY, HILLARY DEMOLITION? NO.
AS FAR AS THE DEMOLITION GOES, I'M OKAY WITH IT.
ESPECIALLY IF IT'S IN SUCH, YEAH.
SO WE'RE ALL, I THINK WE'RE ALL OKAY WITH THE DEMOLITION OF THE TWO STRUCTURES.
UM, WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO COMMENT ON THE USE OFFICE AND RESIDENTIAL THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT.
UH, AGAIN, I MEAN, WE'VE HAD THIS RESIDENTIAL COME UP EACH TIME WE HAVE THIS.
[01:25:01]
SAID, I MEAN, I THINK GENERALLY WE WANT MORE RESIDENT IN SOME MORE RESIDENTIAL IN THAT AREA.SO I THINK FROM THAT STANDPOINT, UH, I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH, UH, HAVING RESIDENTIAL IN OFFICE THERE FROM A, JUST FROM A YOUTH STANDPOINT.
NO, AND AS YOU OBSERVED, IT'S WHAT THE AREA IS.
AND DIDN'T WE HAVEN'T, WE APPROVED A TWO, THE, THE OTHER STRUCTURE YEAH.
BUT THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE IS ON BLACKSMITH.
SO THIS WOULD BE SIMILAR EXCEPT THAT IT HAS BUSINESS, BUT AS THEY OBSERVED WITH THE TWO SEPARATE ENTRANCES, THE BUSINESS ENTRANCE IS NOT ON THE BLACKSMITH LANE FACE.
THE 36 WHATEVER IT'S YEAH, THE, THE 36 33, THE FUNCTIONS ARE SEPARATE.
SO THEY'RE IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUILDINGS.
I KNOW, BUT THE, THE BLACKSMITH FACING SIDE OF THIS PROPOSED BUILDING WOULD BE SIMILAR.
'CAUSE IT'S RESIDENTIAL ONLY FROM THE BLACKSMITH SIDE.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THE USE.
SO THE MASSING IS THE NEXT QUESTION.
AND SO ANY INITIAL THOUGHTS ABOUT THE MASSING? AND THAT'S KIND OF WHY I BROUGHT UP TOO, WITH THE KATCH CITY DEVELOPMENT, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THAT'S GOING YET.
UM, AND IT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT BETWEEN 36 AND 38, BECAUSE THAT WAS FACING THE RIVER.
THERE WAS NO RESIDENCE BEHIND THAT.
THERE WAS NO THERE VER VERSUS THIS PROPERTY, THOSE HOMES THAT ARE DIRECTLY BEHIND US WERE SOLD PRIVATELY TO FOLKS.
SO WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO'S GOING TO TAKE CONTROL OF THOSE THREE HOUSES.
ATCH WILL TAKE IT FROM THAT POINT UP TO, UH, UP TO THE OTHER STREET.
SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THAT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.
AND MY ONLY CONCERN IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MASS, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE LOOKED AT WHEN 36, 38, BECAUSE YOU GOT A HUGE STRUCTURE THAT'S GOING TO TAKE THEIR WEST VIEW AWAY FROM THEM.
UM, JUST BECAUSE IT'S SO OVERSHADOWING FROM THAT ASPECT OF IT.
SO IT'S NOT REALLY APPLES TO APPLES.
IF WE LOOK AT WHAT WE DID DOWN THERE, IT'S A FLOOR DIFFERENCE.
SO THAT'S MY CONCERN OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH COED.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, BUT THOSE ARE GONNA BE PRIVATE.
WE ASSUME PRIVATE RESIDENTS RIGHT.
DIRECTLY BEHIND THAT LOCATION BECAUSE THOSE WERE SOLD, UH, BY THE CITY, SO.
AND SARAH, DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT IT WAS IN THE, THE DEEDED, THE, OR THE SALES CONTRACT THAT THOSE ARE SUPPOSED TO STAY RESIDENTIAL, THOSE THREE? YES.
THERE IS NO LIMITATION RIGHT ON THE, ON THE DEEDS FOR ZONING, SOMEBODY CAN CERTAINLY APPLY OKAY.
IT'S UNKNOWN THERE, BUT THAT WAS MY ONLY CONCERN OF LOOKING AT THAT, IS YOU, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE FOLKS BEHIND THERE ON THE EAST SIDE.
SO I TOO FEEL THAT IT'S MASSIVE.
UM, WHETHER I'M, WHETHER THE THREE D PICTURES ARE, UM, DECEPTIVE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IT, IT, YOU THINK HEIGHT, HEIGHT, HEIGHT WIDE OR WHAT? I MEAN JUST FROM A YEAH.
HEIGHT, ACTUALLY, THE HEIGHT STUCK OUT TO ME.
AND GRANTED, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT IT, YOU KNOW, AS A PEDESTRIAN WE WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT IT.
BUT THE HEIGHT IS, IT'S HIGHER THAN THE OTHER SURROUNDING BUILDINGS.
UM, OR IT FEELS THAT WAY AGAIN FROM THOSE PICTURES.
IT IS THOUGH LOWER THAN THE, THE LIMIT FOR THE AREA APPARENTLY.
IT'S, IT'S NOT OUT OF REGULATION FOR THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING.
SO THE TOTAL HEIGHT THAT FACES THE NORTH HIGH STREET, IT'S ACTUALLY 30 FEET.
THE ONE AT THE REAR IS 30 FROM THE FRONT CABLE.
BUT THE TOTAL HEIGHT WITH THE MID CABLE THAT'S THERE, IT'S UNKNOWN AT THIS POINT, BUT THE ONE FROM THE STREET, IT IS 30.
AND YOU HAD TOLD ME WHEN WE LOOKED AT 36, 38, I THINK WE WERE AROUND 28 FEET ON THAT RESIDENCE.
ON THE OTHER RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, THE, UM, JUST TO ADD SOME CONTEXT, THE CO HATCH STRUCTURE THAT IS COMPARABLE, HOWEVER, THE SIGHTING, THE SIGHTING CONDITIONS ARE SO DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE KNOW THE ATCH IS ON A STREET.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ON AN ALLEY.
AND THE PROPOSALS THAT HAVE COME TO US FOR THE OSCAR SITE, THAT'S GONNA BE SUBSTANTIAL.
[01:30:01]
KATCH CURRENT BUILDING THAT'S BEEN BUILT IS BORDERING SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE QUITE SUBSTANTIAL.SO THE, THE SCALE AND THE MASS OF THAT SEEMED TO BE APPROPRIATE.
ONE, IT'S ON A STREET, NOT IT'S ON AN ALLEY TOO, BUT IT'S ON A STREET THAT'S A STREET ON THE SIDE.
AND SO IT'S WIDER THAN AN ALLEY, BUT IT'S GONNA BE NEXT TO OTHER REALLY BIG THINGS.
WHEREAS THIS IS ACROSS FROM THE SCALE OF ACROSS THE ALLEY IS A, IS A RESIDENTIAL SCALE.
AND IT'S NOT EVEN A RESIDENTIAL SCALE LIKE YOU FIND IN PLACES LIKE MUIRFIELD OR ESTATE PROPERTIES.
IT'S, IT'S A REALLY SMALL SCALE FINE GRAIN TYPE STRUCTURE.
SO I, I, I THINK THE, THE DILEMMA HERE IS THE CONTEXT.
NOW YOU COULD ARGUE THE, UM, THE BRIDGE, BRIDGE STREET PIZZA BUILDING.
FLAT ROOF, BUT IT'S ON A MAJOR ARTERIAL.
I MEAN, IT, IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT SETTING.
SO, UH, YEAH, I HAVE SOME, SOME ISSUES WITH THE HEIGHT, THE HEIGHT AS WELL.
AND I, AND I THINK THE 36, 38, THE TWO STORIES IS PROBABLY FOR ME, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND ALLEYS PROPER, YOU KNOW, URBAN SETTINGS DEVELOP THE STREET AS THE BIG STRUCTURE AND THEN EVERYTHING GETS SMALLER TOWARDS THE ALLEY, UH, BECAUSE THE SCALE'S SMALLER AND, AND SO IT SEEMS BACKWARD HERE.
NOW GRANTED WE HAVE VERY SMALL SCALE BUILDINGS AT THE FRONT OF THE SITE, SO MAKING SOMETHING SMALLER THAN THOSE I THINK IS DIFFICULT.
BUT YEAH, I, I THINK THE MASS IS, IS IT'S JUST, I THINK IT'S JUST TOO BIG FOR BEING RIGHT ON THAT, THAT ALLEY AND, AND KATCH TO THEIR CREDIT, I MEAN, THEY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO HIDE THAT MASS BY DROPPING THE FASCIA AND MAKING IT LOOK LIKE IT'S TWO AND A HALF STORIES.
UM, THEY ALSO RAN THE, YOU KNOW, THEY DID SOME THINGS KINDA LIKE YOUR STONE WHERE THEY HAVE THE BALCONIES CANTILEVERED OUT IN, IN STEEL TO BREAK THAT MASS UP.
BUT, UM, YEAH, IT JUST SEEMS TOO, IT JUST SEEMS TOO BIG TO ME TOO.
AND ACTUALLY, IF I REMEMBER WHEN, DURING THE PRESENTATION, IT OCCURRED TO ME THOUGH, THAT 36, I'M ALWAYS LOSING THE NUMBER, WHATEVER THE NORTHERN ONE IS TWO STORIES.
AND THAT STRUCK TO ME, STRUCK ME WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO THE PRESENTATIONS.
IS THERE ANY REASON THIS HAS TO, I MEAN, I CAN UNDER, I SHOULDN'T ASK, IS THERE ANY REASON THIS HAS TO BE THREE STORIES.
I UNDERSTAND WHY IT, IT'S DESIRED TO BE THREE STORIES, BUT IT JUST IS OUT OF PLACE.
BUT THE HEIGHT IS GENERALLY THE SAME FROM THE BACK, FROM THE GABLE.
I THOUGHT IT WAS TWO AND A HALF, BUT OKAY.
BUT, BUT THEY DIDN'T PUT ANY, YOU HAVE THE GABLE THAT'S ABOVE THE SECOND STORY, BUT THEY DIDN'T PUT ANY OCCUPIED SPACE IN THE GABLES THERE.
SO IT'S, IT'S JUST TWO STORIES OF LIVING SPACE.
AND THEN THE ROOF, UM, IS, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ATCH, I'M TALKING ABOUT YEAH, I KNOW WHICH ONE.
BUT FOR ME THE HEIGHT IS THE SAME, BUT ROUGHLY THE HEIGHTS THE SAME.
AND I THINK THE STRUCTURES THAT WE WERE BEHIND DR.
LAPIERRE'S OFFICE, I THINK THE INITIAL PROPOSALS FOR THOSE WERE LIKE TWO STORY TOWNHOUSES.
UM, I THINK THOSE WERE PRETTY SMALL.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WHICH, WHICH ALL SEEMED LIKE A LOGICAL PATTERN ALONG THAT, THAT ALLEY FOR ME, THE CHALLENGE, I MEAN, 'CAUSE IF WE'RE TALKING 28 TO 30, 30 FEET, I MEAN, KIND OF WHERE WE HAVE WITH, UH, COMING DOWN THE STREET, I MEAN THE ISSUE ALWAYS IS GONNA BE, NOW WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION, RIGHT.
THAT BUILDING, WHATEVER YOU PUT THERE IS GONNA BE A BIG FACE TO THE RESIDENT TO WHATEVER'S GONNA BE BEHIND THAT.
SO THE STRUGGLE IS GONNA BE, OH, IF YOU PUT SOMETHING THERE, IT'S GONNA BE BIG.
I MEAN, BE COMPARATIVELY, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE GONNA BE ON THE ALLEY, EVEN IF, IF IT'S 25 OR 28, I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA, IT, IT, THE STRUGGLE IS GONNA BE ARCHITECTURALLY HOW DO YOU SOFTEN THAT IN SOME WAY? RIGHT.
BECAUSE I THINK IF WE SAY IT'S 28 OR IF IT'S 30 AND WE TAKE IT TO 28, IT'S STILL GONNA BE BIG.
SO, AND HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT FROM THE, FROM THE PEOPLE BEHIND WHO ALSO HAVE SOME WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING THERE THAT WE DON'T BLOCK? WE DON'T MM-HMM.
BUT FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL STANDPOINT, I, I DO THE SAME THING.
I THOUGHT THE ROOF, EVERYTHING LOOKED BIG IN THE BACK.
THE FRONT I THOUGHT WAS OKAY FROM A, FROM A GENERAL STANDPOINT, BUT HOW DO YOU SOFTEN THE, SOFTEN THE BACK A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE IT'S STILL GONNA BE, IF YOU WANNA DO SOMETHING THERE AT 25 OR 30 FEET, IT'S STILL GONNA BE BIG.
AND HOW DO YOU MAKE IT SO IT DOESN'T LOOK SO INTIMIDATING TO THE GUY WHO LIVES IN THE HOUSE BEHIND THAT? YEP.
PLEASE, WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE, THE LOWER BUILDING UP SIMILAR TO GO HATCH,
[01:35:56]
DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT BACK TO LOWER THAT FACADE TO A MORE APPROPRIATE THAT WORDS, RIGHT? YEP.BUT, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE INTENT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEHOW HOW WE GET IT SCALED A LITTLE BIT, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MASS IN THERE.
'CAUSE YOU HAVE THAT END GABLE SITTING THERE THAT IT, IT, YOU KNOW, THE END GABLE SITTING ALL THE WAY UP TO WHATEVER, WHATEVER THE WHOLE HEIGHT'S GONNA BE.
RIGHT? I I I SEE IN MY HEAD, UM,
NO, BECAUSE IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE HERE.
'CAUSE FOR THE POINTS I MADE IT, IT'S ON A STREET.
IT, IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE AGAINST BUILDINGS THAT ARE GONNA BE BIGGER THAN IT PROBABLY IS, UH, ON THE OSCAR SITE.
YOU, YOU'RE GONNA BE CLOSE TO, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO PRESERVE ALL THOSE SMALL SCALE STRUCTURES ON THE ALLEY.
SO ON THAT ALLEY, YOU'RE GONNA BE ACROSS FROM ONE STORY STRUCTURES.
SO YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.
SO IF YOU TOOK THE APPROACH, I, I THINK SOME OF US ARE SAYING YOU NEED TO LOP OFF A FLOOR AT THE ALLEY SIDE AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, IT GOES BACK HALFWAY AND THEN THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE UPPER FLOOR.
UM, OR IT GETS TALLER BACK HALFWAY.
MAYBE THAT'S AN, WE MAY ENTERTAIN THAT.
AND, UM, YEAH, THAT, I MEAN HAVING A, HAVING A BUILDING THAT'S TWO DIFFERENT HEIGHTS PRO I THINK'S SOMETHING WE MIGHT, WE MIGHT ENTERTAIN AND YOU'LL, YOU PUSH THE MASS BACK, BACK IN THE LOT.
I THINK, I THINK WE CAN DO THAT.
NOW, OF COURSE, WE DON'T WANNA DO IT IN A FLAT GROUP.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A SLOW THROUGH FLAT ACROSS THE STREET FROM I, YEAH.
I, I, I'D, I'D BE WILLING, I KNOW WHAT OUR CODE SAYS, BUT I ALSO KNOW WHERE THE SITE'S LOCATED.
SO
SO I MEAN I, I, I PERSONALLY WOULD, MIGHT BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN THAT BECAUSE THE LOCATION IS DISTINCT AND IT'S NOT ON HIGH STREET OR IT'S NOT ON BRIDGE STREET, BUT, BUT, UM, OTHER BOARD MEMBERS MAY FEEL YOU TALKING, UH, LIKE A ROOF DECK ROOF.
WELL, WHETHER OR NOT YOU USE IT FUNCTIONALLY, THAT, THAT WOULD BE, THAT'S INTERESTING.
BUT, BUT IT WOULD KEEP THE MASS DOWN AND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FLAT ROOF POTENTIAL.
THEN YOU WOULD ENTERTAIN THAT AS A FUNCTION.
I, I WOULD, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE REST OF THE BOARD.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS, HOW THE STAFF WOULD VIEW THAT, BUT YEAH, I'D ALMOST HAVE TO SEE THAT MODEL
I KNOW WHY YOU GUYS ARE, I THINK WE'RE ALL KIND OF THINKING THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, AND YOU COULD BRING US MULTIPLE OPTIONS.
YOU COULD BRING US MASSING OPTIONS THAT DON'T HAVE FENESTRATION THAT DON'T HAVE COLORS.
AND JUST SAY, HERE, HERE, HERE ARE MASSES LETTUCE.
SO YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T GO TO THE, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE EXTENT YOU'VE GONE TO HERE, BUT YOU COULD BRING US A COUPLE OPTIONS AND THEN WE COULD, WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT.
AND THAT MIGHT BE, UM, YEAH, I LIKE THAT IDEA.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ABOUT THE MASSING ASKING THEM? OKAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T COME UP IN THE, IN THE REPORT BEFORE WE GET TO MATERIAL PALETTE, ANY ISSUES ABOUT THE SIGHTING OR THE DRIVEWAY OR HOW YOU GET IN AND OUT BACK THERE, OR? I THINK THE WHOLE THING, I MEAN, OFF THAT OUT, EVERYTHING OFF THE ALLEY IS DIFFICULT, RIGHT? THAT IT'S, IT, IT JUST, IT'S JUST THE WAY YOU HAVE TO TURN AND YOU HAVE TO TURN OUT THERE.
EVERYTHING IS DIFFICULT AND WHEN YOU, WHATEVER YOU PUT ACROSS THE STREET, THE TURNING RADIUS,
[01:40:01]
IT'S GONNA BE CHALLENGING.I MEAN, I'LL HAVE TO HAVE A PARK.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT, THE WAY BRIDGE, THE PIZZA, WHERE THE SOUTH SIDE IS, YOU MAKE A TURN, PEOPLE ARE COMING OFF OF UH, RIGHT BRIDGE STREET.
IT'LL BE SOME THINGS IN THERE.
WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK ON THE PARKING SIDE OR ON THE ACCESS SIDE.
AND I THINK THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE, AS WE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO WITH THE VILLAGE AREA, WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THOSE RESIDENTS.
I THINK BLACKSMITH IS GONNA BE A WHOLE DIFFERENT CONCEPT WHEN WE GET DONE WITH WHAT IT'S REALLY GONNA LOOK LIKE.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY ARE TRYING TO CREATE FOOT TRAFFIC AND THAT'S THE KEY.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ANYWAY, TO GET PEOPLE OUTTA THEIR CARS AND, AND WALK THE AREA AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO, BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO HAVE TRASH DELIVERY AND RIGHT.
OR PICK UP AND YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO GET TRUCKS IN THERE.
SO IS THAT THE TRENCH? YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME FOR THE RESIDENT.
EVERYTHING'S GONNA HAVE MORE, THERE'S GONNA BE MORE TRAFFIC DOWN THERE.
GENERICALLY, I THINK MOST OF THE TRAFFIC NOW FOR MOST OF THE RESTAURANTS IS OCCURRING ON SOUTH NORTH HIGH, WHICH IS KIND OF CAUSING PROBLEMS. 'CAUSE DELIVERY TRUCKS AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE PARKING UP ON NORTH HIGH.
SO THEY MAY BE MORE APTT TO USE THE BLACKSMITH SECTION, BUT I DON'T KNOW.
BUT AT THIS MODEL, THE WAY IT IS IS NOT CONDUCIVE FOR TRASH REMOVAL OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SO TRASH
IS THAT WHAT THOSE ARE? OKAY, GREAT.
THAT BE THE, UM, RESONANCE ANCE.
YOU, YOU KNOW, IWI WONDERED LOOKING AT THE SIDING, IF THE CURB CUTS TO THIS IS ACTUALLY IF BETTER ON THE OTHER SIDE, GET IT FURTHER AWAY FROM THE FALL THAT YOU HAVE OFF OF BRIDGE STREET.
IF YOU FLIPPED THE PLAN, NOW I KNOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOCKED INTO THAT SYMMETRICAL EXCESS POINT, BUT IF YOU GAVE UP THE SYMMETRY ON THE OTHER SIDE AND FLIPPED THE PLAN AND HAD YOUR DRIVE ON THE NORTH SIDE, YOU'RE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE CONGESTION THAT CAN OCCUR.
ACTUALLY, THAT WAS A SUGGESTION OR THOUGHT THAT I HAD INITIALLY.
UM, BECAUSE WHAT WE WANNA DO IS CREATE A PEDESTRIAN FLOW, RIGHT? SO IF WE CREATED, WE TOOK THE BUILDING AND SLID IT.
EXCUSE ME, CAN, SORRY JOE, CAN YOU TURN YOUR, UM, MIC, MICROPHONE ON.
UM, IF WE SLID THE BUILDING TO THE SOUTH THAT WOULD ALLOW THIS, THIS ACTUAL VISTA FROM THROUGH TO BLACKSMITH.
THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, WELL, WE HAVE THE EXISTING STRUCTURE IN THAT EXISTING LOCATION AND IT'S ALREADY CUT INTO THE HILLSIDE AND IT, IT BECOMES, UM, DIFFICULT TO REGRADE ALL OF THAT AND ADDING COSTS.
SO I, I, ANN AND I SPOKE ABOUT IT.
I'M NOT SURE IF WE, I THINK I MAY HAVE MENTIONED IT TO ORGE, UM, BUT I THINK ARCHITECTURALLY THAT WOULD BE SUPERIOR TO THIS.
WE THOUGHT ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK THINKING ABOUT COSTS, IT JUST BECAME PROHIBITIVE.
YOU KNOW, UM, I, I HAVEN'T DONE A, A, A SITE STUDY TO DETERMINE HOW MANY YARDS OF DIRT WE ARE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, BUT, UM, BUT THAT WAS, WELL I BRING THAT UP BECAUSE THIS IS GONNA GO BEFORE ENGINEERING AND TRAFFIC ENGINEERING AND THEY, THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES THAT ARE A LOT MORE, UM, YOU SOMETIMES YOU DEAL WITH ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARDS, THERE'S SOME NEGOTIATING AND SOME, SOMETIMES SOME WIGGLE ROOM.
BUT WHEN YOU DEAL WITH THESE CERTAIN CODES LIKE FIRE RATING AND, AND THIS TRAFFIC STUFF, I MEAN THE TURNING RADIUS, THE DISTANCE FROM THAT INTERSECTION ARE GONNA BE CRITICAL.
SO YOU MAY WANT TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS RIGHT NOW AS YOU'RE DEVELOPING THE SITE PLAN TO SEE WHAT KIND OF ISSUES THEY HAVE.
THE OTHER, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS YOU TALK ABOUT A PATH THROUGH THERE.
I, I THINK YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THE PLAN FOR THE ALLEY BECAUSE IF THERE'S NO PEDESTRIAN ACCESS OR NO SIDEWALK, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT PEDESTRIANS PASSING THROUGH YOUR SITE.
YOU WANT 'EM PASSING THROUGH YOUR SITE INTO YOUR BUILDING.
BUT, BUT, UM, UNLESS THERE'S SIDEWALKS DOWN THERE, I THINK YOU WANNA LOOK AT THE OVERALL PLAN, UM, AND WHERE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE DIRECTED.
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE WAS GONNA BE PEDESTRIAN ACTUALLY THAT WAS GONNA BE A ONE-WAY STREET, UM, BLACKSMITH WAS GONNA BE TURNED INTO A ONE-WAY STREET AND THERE WOULD BE PEDESTRIAN.
I MEAN, WE WERE KIND OF COUNTING ON THAT ACTUALLY.
THAT HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED.
WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY DONE FOR BLACKSMITH LANE RELATIVE TO THE KATCH PROPOSAL.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY DETERMINATIONS YET ON THAT
[01:45:01]
BECAUSE KATCH IS TRYING TO DRIVE ALL THE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC OVER TO THEIR BUILDING AND DOWN AND SO, AND, AND DOWN INTO THAT DEVELOPMENT THERE AS, AS KIND OF AN ENTRY POINT TO THERE AND THEN DOWN INTO THE PARK.SO YOU, I I WOULD LOOK AT THEIR PLAN AND WELL, WE'VE STUDIED THEIR PLAN, THE, OR WHAT THEY HAVE ON THE, ON THE WEBSITE PRETTY EXTENSIVELY.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT AN INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX NEXT TO US THAT HAS OVERHEAD GARAGE DOORS OFF OF BLACKSMITH, UM, BIGGER THAN OUR, OUR, OUR DOORS.
UM, UH, WE, WE STARTED WITH ONE DOUBLE DOOR, UM, AND THEN, UM, WE DISCUSSED IT IN, UH, OUR REVIEW MEETING AND WE THOUGHT TWO SEPARATE DOORS WOULD BE BETTER, MORE IN SCALE, YOU KNOW, WITH, I MEAN WE'RE WILLING, I, I, UM, I'M HOPING THAT THERE'S, I I, THE ILLUSTRATIONS I MADE SHOW PEDESTRIANS WALKING DOWN BA BLACKSMITH.
I MEAN, I HOPE THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE A PEDESTRIAN.
I, I MEAN WE CALL IT AN ALLEY, BUT IS IT REALLY AN ALLEY? IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE, IT'S GONNA HAVE TO MAINTAIN PARTICULAR, IT'S BLACKSMITH LANE.
WE'RE HOPING THAT THERE WILL BE PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY DOWN THERE AS WELL.
HOW ABOUT THE MATERIAL PALETTE? IT'S A LITTLE COMPLEX.
I MEAN, IF I JUST LOOK AT THAT, I THINK THE, IF I JUST GO TO THE STUFF I WROTE DOWN, LIKE YOU SAID, THE STONE WALL, JUST MAKING SURE IT KINDA LEVELS UP WITH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE, THE FLOOR OR SOMETHING THAT, AND THEN THE STONE AS IT GOES UP IN THE BACK AND THE, I GUESS THAT'S THE OFFICE AREA KIND OF.
WE HAVE THE WINDOWS GOING OUT.
I FIND THAT JUST A STRANGE, UH, TRANSITION.
AND THEN I THINK CUTTING BACK THE COLORS IS A, OR YOU KNOW, GOING ALL TO SIDING AND TWO COLORS.
AND I THINK THE ONE OF, THERE'S THREE ON THERE NOW.
THREE COLORS AND TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OR, WELL NOW I HAVE THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF MATERIALS.
I, I, I THINK IT'S A, FOR ME IT'S A LITTLE OVERDONE AND ON THE FRONT IT, FOR ME, IT REALLY, THE BACK, IT KIND OF BLENDS IN.
BUT THE FRONT FOR ME WAS REALLY, UH, OH, WHERE IS THE FRONT? BUT IT'S A BIT OVER OVERWHELMING.
I FORGET YOU HAVE THE DORM, UH, THERE WE GO.
YEAH, YOU HAVE THE WRAPAROUND, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOOD, UH, YOU HAVE AROUND THERE, PLUS THE TWO DIFFERENT MATERIALS.
IT FEELS A, FOR ME, I THINK IT COULD BE SIMPLIFIED, UM, BECAUSE THEN ALSO WITH HOW THE RELIEF IS, IT, IT GIVES A DIFFERENT, TWO DIFFERENT KIND OF SCALES AND TWO DIFFERENT, OR THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT KINDS OF MATERIALS.
I THINK, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BUSY FOR ME.
AND YOU COULD KIND OF CUT THAT INTO ONE OR TWO.
I DUNNO IF YOU REALLY NEED THE RELIEF IN THERE, UH, TO MAKE IT SO IT, IT, IT JUST IS FOR ME IS REALLY BUSY.
IT COULD BE SIMPLIFIED A LITTLE BIT JUST TO MAKE IT MORE, UH, INTEGRATED INTO THE, ACROSS THE STREET WHERE THEY HAVE MORE REALLY TWO COLORS, KIND OF MAYBE TWO SIDINGS, SOMETHING, SOMETHING ALONG THAT LINES.
SO, AND, AND I THINK THE COLORS TOO MADE IT STICK OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
SO IT PULLS YOUR ATTENTION TO ALL THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF MATERIALS BEING USED.
SO I THINK BRINGING THOSE COLORS DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND THEN GOING MORE CONSISTENTLY WITH A COUPLE MATERIALS.
AND MARTY, ANYTHING TO ADD? NOTHING.
ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ON THE SUBMITTAL? OKAY.
I THINK YOU, THE GENERAL TONE UP HERE IS IT'S A LITTLE TOO BIG SO IT, IT NEEDS TO GET SMALLER.
SO REALLY IN THE BACK, RIGHT? I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BACK, THE FRONT.
DO WE, I MEAN OKAY WITH HOW THE FRONT LOOKS MORE LIKE, I MEAN, DO YOU THINK SCALE OF THE FRONT IS, UH, OVERDONE? I MEAN, I MEAN JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE KIND OF ALIGNED ON THE, UH, THE FRONT NOW THE FRONT'S A CLEAR THREE STORIES.
I'D SAY EVEN THE FRONT FEELS MASSIVE TO ME.
MA TOO MUCH MESS I GUESS IS A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT.
BUT YEAH, IT'S JUST, IT'S STILL BIG.
IT'S A BIG CHUNK OF BUILDING GO.
I JUST LIKE THE IDEA OF MAYBE BRING US A COUPLE MORE DIFFERENT THOUGHTS OF, YOU KNOW, MAKING THAT MORE SCALED DOWN FROM GOING EAST TO WEST AND MAYBE THAT'LL MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON THAT WEST SIDE.
I, I LOOKED AT THE DRAWINGS, BUT UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T REMEMBER EVERY DRAWING IT'S IN THERE.
IS THERE A SITE SECTION THAT SHOWS THE PROFILE OF THE BUILDINGS IN FRONT RELATIVE TO THIS
[01:50:07]
GUESS? YEAH.MOST OF THOSE, THOSE ARE ALL ONE STORY ON THERE.
AND THEY'RE, NOW, WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR IS, IS A SECTION THROUGH THE ENTIRE SITE THAT SHOWS THIS AND THEN THE BUILDING'S IN FRONT.
'CAUSE THAT CAN BE A HELPFUL DRAWING TO COMPARE.
AND I'M A LITTLE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT VIEW, BUT YOU HAVE TO WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FROM THE STREET TO THE BACK JUST TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T YEAH.
YOU DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF MASSIVE THING COMING UP OUT OF THE, KIND OF BEHIND EVERYTHING AND IT, UH, IT'S HARD TO SEE THAT.
I I SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT NORTH HIGH VIEW LOOKING EAST, CORRECT? YEAH.
JUST TO MAKE OVER THE 16 AND 22 BUILDINGS, CORRECT? YEAH.
BUT THIS IS THE SECTION YOU'RE REFERRING TO.
IS THAT IT? YEAH, THAT WOULD A DRAWING LIKE, LIKE THAT.
UM, MAYBE WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU COME BACK, IT'S THE DRAWING, RIGHT? WITH BLEND MATERIALS AND IS IT, IS IT IN THERE? OH YEAH.
SO THAT YOUR CONCERN ABOUT THE RELATIVE HEIGHTS, UH, THAT THAT DRAWING GIVES YOU SOME IDEA.
YEAH, I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT MEAN, EVEN THE SCHEMATIC IS TO MAKE, IT DOESN'T REALLY SHOW THOUGH LIKE YEAH.
THAT WHERE THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY HEIGHTS ARE.
EVEN WITH THAT, IT DOES SHOW THAT THIS LOOKS LIKE THE SOUTH HERE THAN THIS, BUT THAN THE HIGH STREET SIDE.
BUT IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE A VIEW FROM NORTH HIGH LOOKING OUT OVER LAKE 16 AND OR THOSE TWO PROPERTIES AS WELL AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE LOOKING EAST.
SO, UM, IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE THAT VIEW LOOKING ON NORTH HIGH, LOOKING OVER THOSE TWO PROPERTIES, 16 AND 22, BUT THEN LOOKING EAST AND SEE GROUND FROM THE GROUND.
AND FOR ME, I ACROSS, YEAH, FOR ME, YEAH, YOU CAN DO IT ACROSS THE, THE STREET, STREET ON HIGH STREET.
IF YOU GO ACROSS THE STREET ON, ON THE WEST SIDE OF NORTH HIGH AND THEN LOOK EAST MIGHT BE, IF WE COULD GET THAT, THAT'D BE A NICE VIEW.
MAYBE WE CAN DO THAT IN A A THREE G MODEL OR WHATEVER, OR THREE DIMENSIONAL MODEL.
WHAT WE'VE DONE IS, UM, WE CREATE A MODEL AND WE GIVE PRESENTATION.
I MEAN, IF IS POSSIBLE A PIECE THAT WE COULD DO THAT STUDY BEFORE WE GIVE IT TO YOU TO I, THAT WOULD HELP US TO VISUALIZE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO CLOSE.
BUT APPARENTLY GIS IS MUCH MORE ACCURATE.
WE'LL SHARE THAT BEFORE MAYBE OUR NEXT MEETING OR ANYTHING.
I, I, I WANT TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FRONT MASS.
THAT MIGHT BE THE SIDE WHERE IT'S SAFER TO MAKE THE THIRD FLOOR INSIDE A ROOF THAT RUNS PERPENDICULAR TO THE LONG DIMENSION OF THE SITE BECAUSE THEN YOU'D BE BRINGING THE ROOF DOWN TO THE TOP.
IT'LL REDUCE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT INSTEAD OF SEEING WALL THREE STORIES, YOU'LL SEE WALL TWO STORIES, THEN ROOF AND MAYBE DORMERS IN THAT.
BUT THAT WOULD HELP BRING THAT, 'CAUSE SOME OF YOU, SOME OF YOU'RE REACTING TO THE MASS THAT'S FACING, UH, AND STREET.
I WAS GONNA SUGGEST SOME SORT OF VARIATION IN THE FRONT RIGHT NOW IT'S A BIG SQUARE.
UM, SO DORMERS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND YEAH, I LIKE YOUR IDEA OF SHIFTING THE ROOF.
UM, IT'LL REDUCE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT IT'LL HELP A LOT.
IN TERMS OF THAT IMPRESSION AND ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT IN COMMON WITH THE LITTLE STONE BUILDING IN FRONT THAT HAS A ROOF.
THE PRIMARY ROOF PARALLELS HIGH STREET BUILDING ROOF TWO AND A HALF.
SO YOU STILL GET, YOU STILL GET SQUARE FOOTAGE UP TOP, BUT IT'S, IT'S IN A ROOF ON THAT ROOF OR NO, PARDON ME.
[01:55:01]
PLEASE? SO WE CAN CAPTURE THIS ON THE FOR THE MINUTES? YEAH, WELL, WELL FIRST OF ALL WE THINK YOU SHOULD JUST BRING MASSING STUDIES.BUT, BUT ONE, ONE SOLUTION THAT I THINK MIGHT MEET SOME OF THE CONCERNS HERE ABOUT THAT MASS OF THE SIDE THAT'S NOW FACING HIGH STREET, FACING WEST IS IF YOU BROUGHT THE ROOF, YOU HAD TWO, TWO FULL STORIES, THEN THE ROOF BEGINS TO SLOPE UP AND YOU MIGHT HAVE DORMERS IN THAT, THAT FACE HIGH STREET.
UM, NOW WE STILL, I THINK A LOT OF US FEEL ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT SHOULD JUST BE TWO STORIES.
BUT THAT WOULD BE A WAY OF GETTING SOME SQUARE FOOTAGE IN THAT TOP FLOOR BUT NOT HAVING SO MUCH WALL GOING.
TWO STORIES, BUT THEN TRANSITIONING TO THE, THE THREE STORIES EVENTUALLY THAT WE WOULD BE, I DID TWO, I WOULD CALL IT TWO AND A HALF.
'CAUSE THAT OTHER, THAT UPPER ONE'S GONNA BE, WHAT I'M PROPOSING IS IT'S IN A ROOF, SO IT'S GONNA A ROOF AND IT MAY HAVE SOME DORMERS.
IT HELP YOU GET MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE UP THERE.
BUT IT, BUT IT'S INSIDE A ROOF, SO.
THANK, BUT YOU MAY COME UP WITH OTHER WAYS, BUT THOSE ARE THOSE I THINK SUMMARIZE OUR CONCERNS.
THE ALLEY DEFINITELY TOO TALL FACING HIGH STREET, MAYBE TWO AND A HALF STORIES NOT THREE.
I THINK THERE, IF YOU SHOW SOME G FROM THE OTHER, THEN IT GIVES A BETTER IMPRESSION FROM THE HIGH STREET ALSO.
YEAH, CERTAINLY THE OTHER SIDE LOOKS TOO BIG.
I I I THINK WE'VE GIVEN YOU PLENTY OF FEEDBACK,
I, YEAH, I, I APPRECIATE THE PATIENCE OF OUR APPLICANTS FOR THE NEXT CASE, SO.
UM, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE AGENDA, THE CASE 23 0 9 6 HAS BEEN POSTPONED.
SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO CASE 23 1 1 6 1 19
[Case #23-116ARB]
SOUTH HIGH STREET.THIS APPLICATION IS A REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION OF AN EXISTING OUTBUILDING LOCATED WITHIN HISTORIC DUBLIN.
THE 0.1 ACRE LOT IS ZONED HD HS, HISTORIC SOUTH DISTRICT AND IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 95 FEET NORTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF SOUTH HIGH STREET AND JOHN WRIGHT LANE AND SARAH WILL BE OUR PRESENTER.
AND, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT INTRODUCTION.
AT YOUR SEATS, YOU HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT WAS SUPPLIED BY THE APPLICANT TODAY AND I WILL LET HER EXPLAIN THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT.
THE REQUEST IS IN, UM, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC SOUTH, UH, ZONING DISTRICT.
IT IS AN OUTBUILDING ON MILL LANE BETWEEN PENNY HILL AND JOHN WRIGHT LANES.
IT'S ACTUALLY AT THE REAR OF ONE 19 SOUTH HIGH STREET AND RESIDENTIAL IS DIRECTLY TO THE WEST.
THIS IS A CLOSER VIEW THAT SHOWS THE STRUCTURE UNDER CONSIDERATION TONIGHT.
IT IS LOCATED IN THE PARKING LOT AGAIN ADJACENT TO MILL LANE.
IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WITHIN THE MILL LANE RIGHT OF WAY AS MANY OF OUR OUTBUILDINGS ARE.
SO THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE MEASURING BY DUB DISCOVERY.
THE BUILDING IS APPROXIMATELY 560 SQUARE FEET.
IT'S AN L-SHAPED FORM, LIKELY CONSTRUCTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES AND JOINED TOGETHER.
YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE ON THE SITE AS THE PAULA HOUSE AND ALSO THE CARRIAGE STEP WITH THE OWNER'S NAME INSCRIBED ALONG, UH, HIGH STREET.
THESE ARE PHOTOS OF THE STRUCTURE IN QUESTION BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE.
THE MAIN PORTION OF THE BUILDING ON THE LEFT IS LIKELY A CHICKEN COOP AND THE SMALLER L ON THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTO OR THE RIGHT OF THE RIGHT PHOTO IS A WELLHOUSE.
THESE ARE CLOSER VIEWS OF EACH SIDE.
UH, THE NORTH SIDE IS ADJACENT TO MILL LANE AND THEN THE SOUTH IS ADJACENT TO THE INTERIOR PARKING LOT WITHIN THE L AND FACING NORTHEAST.
THE OWNER JUST REMOVED AN LANTUS TREE THAT HAD GROWN UP IN THAT LOCATION.
THIS WILL REQUIRE CONTINUAL MAINTENANCE TO ENSURE THAT IT DOESN'T KEEP GROWING.
THESE TREES ARE VERY INVASIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE, HARD TO KILL.
UM, STAFF HAS SENT MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUES TO THE APPLICANT FOR THEIR USE IN THE FUTURE.
THERE ARE VARIOUS CODE SECTIONS AND GUIDELINES THAT APPLY TO THIS REQUEST, AND I WANNA GO THROUGH THEM IN SOME DETAIL.
[02:00:01]
REPORT THAT OUTBUILDINGS, UM, ARE USUALLY NOT IDENTIFIED AS EITHER CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING IN THE HISTORIC AND CULTURAL ASSESSMENT.AND AS WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER APPLICATIONS TONIGHT, THEREFORE, IT'S DETERMINED TO BE NON-CONTRIBUTING.
AND THIS IS WITH, UM, CONCURRENCE AND DIRECTION FROM THE LAW OFFICE.
THEREFORE CODE SECTION 1 53 1 76 JB, NO, SORRY, J FIVE B APPLIES FOR DEMOLITION.
AND THIS IS THE LOWER THRESHOLD OF CRITERIA FOR DEMOLITION AS COMPARED TO A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
ALSO APPLICABLE IS SECTION 1 53 0.178 REGARDING MAINTENANCE, WHERE STRUCTURES WITHIN THE DISTRICT ARE TO BE PROVIDED SUFFICIENT CARE, MAINTENANCE AND UPKEEP TO PREVENT DESTRUCTION BY DETERIORATION.
FINALLY, SECTION 4.13 OF THE GUIDELINES TALKS ABOUT HOW OUTBUILDING SHOULD BE IDEALLY REPAIRED OR RETAINED AND WHEN REPAIRED OR RETAINED NEW MATERIALS SHOULD MATCH THE OLD.
THESE ARE THE DEMOLITION CRITERIA FOR THE NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES, AGAIN PER 1 53 0.176 J FIVE B.
SO THE REQUIREMENT IS FOR ONE OF THE THREE TO BE MET.
CRITERION NUMBER ONE IS RELATED TO ECONOMIC HARDSHIP.
NO INFORMATION WAS PROVIDED SPECIFIC TO ECONOMICS WITH THIS APPLICATION.
FURTHER WITHIN THAT CRITERIA, ITEM 1 53 0.176 J FIVE A FOUR D IS REFERENCED.
UH, ONE OF THAT CRITERIA IS DELIBERATE NEGLECT AND INADEQUATE MAINTENANCE SHOULD BE AVOIDED AND AS DESCRIBED, THIS IS EVIDENT AT THIS POINT.
CRITERION TWO IS THAT THE STRUCTURE HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL, HISTORIC OR ARCHEOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE.
AND AS WE MENTIONED, THE STRUCTURE IS A CHICKEN COOP AND A WELL HOUSE.
AND WHILE IT MAY NOT HAVE ARCHITECTURAL MERIT ON ITS OWN, IT DOES ADD CHARACTER TO MILL LANE AND THE DISTRICT AS A WHOLE, ITS REMOVAL IS CONTRARY TO GUIDELINES SECTION 4.13.
CRITERION NUMBER THREE IS THAT THE STRUCTURE IMPEDES ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT OR DETRACTS FROM THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
AGAIN, THE STRUCTURE APPEARS TO BE OUTSIDE THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO NO IMPACTS TO MILL LANE ARE PRESENT.
IF MAINTAINED, AGAIN, IT COULD ADD TO THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT, IT COULD BE PRIVATE STORAGE AND BE A BENEFIT TO THE OWNER.
AND UH, FINALLY, THE REPLACEMENT OF THE STRUCTURE WITH GRASS WILL NOT ADD TO THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
AND AS DESCRIBED IN THE STAFF REPORT, PROPER BUFFERING TO THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE WEST SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.
SO THEREFORE THIS CRITERION IS NOT MET.
SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DISAPPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION.
UM, FOR THE NON-CONTRIBUTING BUILDING WITH THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS, THE APPLICANT HAS NOT DEMONSTRATED HOW ONE OF THE THREE CRITERIA IN SECTION 1 53 0.176 J FIVE B HAS BEEN MET.
THE APPLICANT HAD AMPLE TIME AND OPPORTUNITY TO REPAIR THE STRUCTURE PRIOR TO ITS CONDI CURRENT CONDITION, THUS CREATING THE SELF-IMPOSED HARDSHIP REFERENCED IN 1 53 0.176 J FIVE A FOUR D, AND NOT MAINTAINING THE STRUCTURE AS REQUIRED IN CODE SECTION 1 53 0.178.
REMOVAL OF THE OUTBUILDING IS CONTRARY TO THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES SECTION 4.13.
AND FINALLY THE APPLICANT HAS NOT PRESENTED EVIDENCE THAT THE STRUCTURE IS BEYOND REPAIR.
AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
I HAVE A, A CLARIFYING QUESTION.
[02:05:01]
SO FAR THIS DOES NOT MEET, UM, GROUNDS TWO AND THREE.SO LET'S JUST REVIEW FOR EVERYBODY THE GROUNDS FOR ONE.
NOW THERE'S A CLAUSE THAT SAYS IF THE, IF THE, UH, DAMAGE IS A RESULT OF NEGLECT, THEN ONE FALLS OUT.
SO FOR ONE YOU HAVE TO SAY WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE WITH THE BUILDING, RIGHT? YES.
AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO SAY WHAT THE COSTS ARE TO DO THAT.
RIGHT? AND THEN WHAT, WHAT THE MARKET VALUE OF THE PROPERTY BECOMES OR WOULD BE.
UM, AND AND WHETHER IT'S WORTH DOING THAT.
IS THAT RIGHT? WELL, WE'RE LOOKING AT A NON-CONTRIBUTING.
SO LET'S, I'M GONNA BACK UP THIS.
I WANT, I WANT EVERYBODY TO, I WANNA REVIEW THAT NUMBER ONE CONDITION BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY CONDITION THAT THIS COULD OR COULD HAVE MET, RIGHT? THE APPLICANT HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE ONE OF THE THREE IN ORDER TO GAIN APPROVAL.
RIGHT? BUT BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE SO FAR TO SAY TWO AND THREE, IT DOESN'T MEET THE LEVEL OF TWO AND THREE, RIGHT? WE BELIEVE THAT NONE OF THESE CRITERIA HAVE BEEN MET.
RIGHT? BUT COULD ONE, BUT OF THESE, OF THESE COULD ONE BE MET? I THINK SHE'S SAYING THAT NO EVIDENCE WAS SO FAR PREPARED, RIGHT? SO, OR PRESENTED THAT SHOWED THAT, FOR INSTANCE, THE STRUCTURE HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL VALUE, WHICH IS THE SECOND CRITERIA.
AND BECAUSE IT WAS AN OUTBUILDING, IT WAS EXCLUDED LIKE ON OUR OTHER SITES FROM THE ASSESSMENT AND THEREFORE THE UPCOMING ASSESSMENT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WOULD LOOK AT THIS TO DETERMINE IF IT IS CONTRIBUTING.
RIGHT? BUT BECAUSE LEGALLY IT WAS NOT IDENTIFIED AS CONTRIBUTING ARE, UM, ASSUMPTION HAS TO BE AT THIS POINT THAT IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING IN FAVOR OF THE APPLICANT, RIGHT? YES.
I'M TRYING TO FIND THE AVENUE THAT SAY THIS IS UP TO THE, UP TO THE APPLICANT, BUT, UM, AND WE'LL TALK WHEN THE APPLICANT, YOU'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO COME UP AND TALK, BUT I'M TRYING TO FIND THE AVENUE THAT THEY COULD MEET WITH, WITH THE BUILDING, RIGHT? EXACTLY.
AND SO WHAT, AND THIS IS SON COULD MEET BECAUSE IT SAYS THAT THE EVIDENCE HAS NOT TO THIS DAY BEEN PRESENTED, RIGHT? OKAY.
BUT SAY, AND THE BURDENS ON THE APPLICANT.
BUT THAT, MY POINT IS LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT IS AND THINK ABOUT, OKAY? BECAUSE YOU, I I THINK THEY, THEY NEED SOME FEEDBACK AND SO IF MAYBE, MAYBE THIS DOES ISN'T VOTED ON OR, OR IT'S TABLED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE AVENUE THAT WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO MEET NUMBER ONE? THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M HEADED.
WELL, IT SEEMS LIKE NUMBER ONE IS THE EASIER ONE TO MEET, RIGHT? I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE.
I WOULD AGREE BECAUSE, BECAUSE, I'M SORRY, I DON'T NECESSARILY, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE THAT NUMBER ONE WOULD BE THE EASIEST BECAUSE WE HAVE A STATED PROBLEM OF IT NOT BEING, PERHAPS NOT BEING MAINTAINED PURPOSELY AND THEN THAT WOULD RUN CONTRARY.
HOWEVER, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT NUMBER ONE COULD BE DEMONSTRATED, BUT I ALSO THINK NUMBER TWO COULD BE DEMONSTRATED AND HAS NOT BEEN, I'M NOT SAYING IT COULD BE.
I GUESS I SHOULDN'T SAY IT COULD BE, BUT THAT NUMBER TWO, THE STRUCTURE HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL, UM, SIGNIFICANCE MAY ALSO BE, IT HAS HIS, I THINK IT'S BEEN DEMONSTRATED, IT HAS HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, RIGHT, MIKE? CORRECT.
SO IT, THAT THAT, I'M SORRY, NUMBER TWO HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED FROM, FROM WHERE? SO WHERE WAS THAT? WHERE IT HASN'T BEEN? IT HASN'T BEEN.
I WAS IT, IT NOT, WE HAD DOCUMENTATION THAT SAY IT EXISTED AS CHICKEN COOP AND IT EXISTED AS
[02:10:01]
WELL, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT EXISTED AT A TIME THAT MADE IT HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THESE ARE ALREADY NON-CONFORMING.WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THERE ARE CHICKEN COOPS BEING BUILT TODAY.
THIS IS, THIS IS ALREADY THE CLASSIFICATION OF A NON-CONFORMING OR A NON, UM, THIS IS OUR LOWEST LEVEL OF LOWEST THRESHOLD.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT THIS ISN'T A CONFORMING STRUCTURE.
WE'RE JUDGING IT AS IF IT'S NON, NON, NO, BUT THE SECOND CRITERIA, WHAT MARTY'S TALKING ABOUT IS THE SECOND CRITERIA IF THEY CAN PROVE THAT THERE IS NO, THERE'S NO ARCHITECTURAL, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIC OR ARCHEOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE.
UM, AND JUST THE FACT THAT IT'S BEEN NOTED THAT IT'S A CHICKEN COOP AND A WELL, WELL HOUSE TO ME DOES USUALLY MEAN OF MORE HISTORIC NATURE.
THAT CHICKEN COOP SPILL TODAY.
THAT, I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE HARDER.
UM, JUST LET'S GO THROUGH NUMBER ONE FOR THEM BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR US ALL.
UH, BECAUSE THAT'S ALSO ABSOLUTELY.
THAT'S ALSO AN AVENUE TO PURSUE AND MAYBE WE COULD HAVE THAT SLIDE BACK UP TO HELP US.
SO CRITERION ONE IS RELATED TO ECONOMIC HARDSHIP.
UM, IT IS UP TO THE APPLICANT TO DEMONSTRATE HOW IT WOULD BE TOO EXPENSIVE TO REPAIR THIS OR, UM, SOME OTHER ECONOMICALLY BASED REASONING.
SO WE NEED A COST ESTIMATE AND AN ANALYSIS OF WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE STRUCTURE IN, IN SIMPLEST TERMS, AN ANALYSIS OF WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE STRUCTURE AND A COST ESTIMATE.
SARAH, WHAT ARE THE FACTORS ESTABLISHED IN SECTION 1 5 3 0.17, SIX J FIVE A? I'M, I'M LOOKING AT THE J FIVE A, I'M LOOKING AT YOUR PAGE FIVE IN YOUR REPORT.
MAYBE IT'S MEANT TO BE D YOU'VE GOT D HERE, FOUR D ON CRITERIA.
WE UNDERSTAND ECONOMIC, AT LEAST I UNDERSTAND ECONOMIC HARDSHIP AND PROVING THAT, BUT, AND THEY ALSO HAVE TO PROVE EITHER J FIVE A FOUR D OR THAT SUBSECTION REFERS TO, IT'S LISTED UNDER THE CONTRIBUTING AS AS KIND OF A HINT FOR, UM, THE APPLICANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THINGS SUCH AS HAS, HAS THE STRUCTURE BEEN FOR SALE RECENTLY? HAS IT, UM, DID THEY KNOW THAT IT WAS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE? SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE MORE BASIC THINGS.
WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR THE FULL BLOWN ECONOMIC ANALYSIS THAT WOULD COME WITH A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
BUT WITHIN THAT COLLECTION OF DISCUSSION POINTS ARE ALSO, IS ALSO THIS CRITERION ABOUT, HAS IT BEEN DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT? SO THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
BUT JUST FOR ME, ONLY, ONLY, UM, JUST SO WE'RE CLARIFYING 'CAUSE FIVE J FIVE A FOUR IS UNDER THE CONTRIBUTING SECTION.
SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE SAYING THAT THAT APPLIES AND IT IS ALSO REFERENCED UNDER THE NON-CONTRIBUTING JUST THAT SUBSECTION OH, FACT ESTABLISHED OVER HERE.
THAT'S NOT TERRIBLY CLEAR TO ME IN HERE.
'CAUSE IT JUST, IT ENDS AT AJ FIVE A AND THEN THIS IS ALL THE WAY TO BD, SORRY.
SO JUST NOT FULLY CLEAR TO ME THAT THAT APPLIES, BUT, BUT I THINK THE B ONE WOULD CERTAINLY APPLY AND, AND TO MEET THE CRITERIA IN TWO WOULD REQUIRE WE'VE HAD, UM, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIANS AS CONSULTANTS WRITE REPORTS.
AND WE ALSO HAVE THE REPORT THAT WAS WRITTEN BY KAREN BOKER FOR THIS PROJECT.
UH, WOULD THE APPLICANTS LIKE TO COME UP MISS BUTTON HERE? YES.
[02:15:01]
HI.UM, I'LL, I'LL CALL YOU UP IN A MINUTE.
UH, I JUST WANNA INTRODUCE MYSELF.
MY NAME IS NANCY DAVIS AND I AM, UM, THE PROPERTY MANAGER FOR ONE 19 SOUTH HIGH STREET IN DUBLIN.
UM, I THINK THERE WAS ALSO A MENTION ON AN EMAIL THAT I NEED TO GIVE A BUSINESS ADDRESS.
UH, OUR, MY COMPANY BUSINESS ADDRESS IS 1480 DUBLIN ROAD IN COLUMBUS.
UM, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS PROPERTY, UH, FOR THE CURRENT OWNERS AND THEIR FAMILY SINCE THE LATE 1990S.
UM, I MET WITH, UH, DOROTHY MAY MOFFITT AT HER HOUSE ON FRANKLIN STREET, UM, AND TOOK OVER MANAGEMENT FOR HER BACK IN THE LATE 1990S.
UM, AND CERTAINLY IN THOSE LAST FEW DECADES, DUBLIN'S CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY, UM, FROM WHAT I RECALL.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY, UH, RICHARD TO BARON, WHO IS THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER, WAS NOT ABLE TO MAKE IT THIS EVENING.
UH, HIS DAUGHTER KAREN CALLED ME ABOUT FOUR O'CLOCK TO LET ME KNOW HE WAS NOT FEELING WELL.
UM, HE IS OF UPPER AGE, SO, UM, I THINK THIS HAS, UH, UNFORTUNATELY BEEN A LITTLE STRESSFUL TO HIM.
UM, SO HE IS NOT WITH US THIS EVENING AND I WAS HOPING THAT HE WOULD BE ABLE TO KIND OF GIVE A LITTLE HISTORY.
SO I DID A QUICK ANALYSIS ON, AND I REALLY JUST WANTED THE COUNCIL AND THE BOARD TO, TO HAVE SOME MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE HISTORY THAT THE FAMILY HAS WITH THIS PROPERTY.
SO ONE 19 HAS BEEN ONE 19 SOUTH HIGH STREET HAS BEEN WITH THEIR FAMILY SINCE REALLY THE TURN OF THE CENTURY.
UM, THE RECORD SET ARE ON SOME OF THE ORIGINAL, UM, YOU KNOW, PARCEL SHEETS BEFORE THEY HAD COMPUTERS.
UM, THERE IS HISTORY SHOWING THAT THE SMITH FAMILY OWNED THIS PROPERTY IN 1920, SO OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
UM, THE SMITH FAMILY IS A RELATIVE TO THE CURRENT OWNER.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 19 OR 1890, IT'S A VERY GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT THE SMITH FAMILY WAS A RELATIVE OF THE POLI FAMILY.
OFTEN TIMES FAMILIES HOMES WENT TO THE THROUGH, YOU KNOW, TURNED OVER TO GENERATIONS, UH, BACK THEN.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN BUILT HOUSES BEHIND THEIR PARENTS' HOMES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
'CAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF LAND AS THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY FARMLAND THEN AND VERY, YOU KNOW, RURAL.
UM, SO THE SMITH FAMILY, UM, DOROTHY MAE MOFFITT IS THE DAUGHTER OF THE SMITH FAMILY.
AND DOROTHY MAY'S DAUGHTER IS NANCY TO BARON.
AND RICHARD TO BARON WAS NANCY'S, UM, OR IS NANCY'S HUSBAND, UNFORTUNATELY, NANCY IS DECEASED AND KAREN IS THEIR DAUGHTER.
SO WE HAVE KAREN, WE HAVE, UM, NANCY, WE HAVE DORTHA MAY, AND WE HAVE THE SMITH FAMILY.
SO WE HAVE FOUR GENERATIONS HERE THAT HAVE OWNED THIS PARCEL.
UM, THEY ALSO OWNED A PROPERTY ON FRANKLIN STREET RIGHT BEHIND, AS WELL AS 1 23 SOUTH HIGH STREET RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE SOUTH.
UM, AND I MANAGED THAT PROPERTY FOR THEM AS WELL PRIOR TO THEM SELLING IT, UM, AFTER DORTHA MAY PASSED AWAY.
SO IN THE TIME THAT I'VE MANAGED AND RENTED THIS PARCEL, UM, WE'VE REALLY ONLY THE, THE CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY WAS THE HOUSE WAS THE, UM, INCOME FROM THE HOME.
SO IT WAS A BAKERY, THERE WAS A COFFEE SHOP.
UM, WE HAD A, A TRAGIC FIRE IN 2011 THAT WAS VERY DEVASTATING TO, TO MRS TO BARON.
UM, WE'VE NEVER REALLY CONSIDERED, AND MAYBE THAT IS CERTAINLY OUR FAULT IN IN, IN THE OUTBUILDING AS BEING ANYTHING MORE THAN JUST STORAGE.
IT WAS A STORAGE SHED TO THEIR RECOLLECTION.
I'M SURE THE PURPOSE OF THIS SHED ORIGINALLY WAS, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE.
I KNOW THE REVIEW BOARD HAS IT AS A WELL HOUSE AND A COOP.
I'M SURE THERE WERE PROBABLY ANIMALS.
UM, I I MEAN THERE'S EVIDENCE OF A CISTERN ON THE BACK PORCH.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THE WELL WAS ALL THE WAY OUT THERE.
UM, SOME OF THE PAPERWORK THAT I SUBMITTED TODAY THAT I HAD A LITTLE MORE TIME TO RESEARCH INDICATES THAT THE LOT WAS THAT THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON A LANDSCAPED LOT WITH AN OUTBUILDING IN THE BACKYARD, A FRAME GARAGE AND A SHED WITH SHED ROOF AT THE REAR ALONG THE ALLEY.
IT DOESN'T MENTION A WELLHOUSE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, UH, PARCEL FOR, UM, THE SHEETS THAT WERE WRITTEN, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE EARLY TWENTIES AND THIRTIES, IT INDICATES THAT A GARAGE WAS ADDED IN 1927, UM, WHEN THE, UH, MOFFITT'S OWNED IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S FULL EVIDENCE OF EXACTLY WHAT WAS IN THIS BUILDING OTHER THAN POTENTIALLY SOME ANIMALS.
I MEAN, THE STRUCTURE HAS CONCRETE FLOOR, IT HAS DIRT FLOOR, IT HAS PLYWOOD FLOOR.
UM, I COULDN'T SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF A WELL, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT.
[02:20:01]
I JUST WANTED TO BE HERE TO JUST KIND OF EXPLAIN THAT THE FAMILY, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY LOVE THE PROPERTY.UM, THEY'VE OWNED IT FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
THE, THE SHED IS NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN, I GUESS CONSIDERED, YOU KNOW, SENTIMENTAL TO THEM.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW, WAS IT A CANNING SHED? WAS IT A CHICKEN COOP? WAS IT A GARAGE? WAS IT A CORN CRIB? UH, YOU KNOW, IT COULD HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF THINGS.
UH, AND I, YOU KNOW, I CAN TAKE FULL BLAME FOR THAT.
I'M THE PROPERTY MANAGER OF THE BUILDING.
UH, DIANE HERE IS, IS THE CURRENT COMMERCIAL TENANT, AND SHE'S BEEN WONDERFUL.
UM, I REALLY, THERE'S SOME HISTORY THAT THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SHED BACK IN THE, THE END OF LAST YEAR.
IT REALLY BECAME FOREFRONT WHEN WE GOT CITY ORDERS.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, AT THAT POINT WE WERE ALREADY DETERIORATED AND MATT WAS FANTASTIC TO WORK WITH, UM, WITH THE CITY OF DUBLIN ON CODE ENFORCEMENT.
AND WHEN I RECEIVED THESE IN JULY, IT SAID REPAIR.
SO I SAID, OKAY, IT NEEDS PAINTED.
WE NEED TO REBUILD SOME OF THE INTERIOR STRUCTURE TO SUPPORT IT.
AND THEN I STARTED GETTING, WELL, YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT A PERMIT.
THEY SAID, WELL, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TILL WE GET RID OF THE TREE.
WELL, YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT APPROVAL.
I DON'T HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF CODES AND I'M, I'M A PROPERTY MANAGER.
I CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, WORK WITH CITY OF COLUMBUS BEFORE ON SOME DEMOLITION PERMITS FOR SOME GARAGES.
UM, SO I'M GOING INTO THIS VERY NAIVE IN IN WRONG OR RIGHT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF IT WAS PUT ON US TO, YOU KNOW, TO TRY TO DETERMINE READING THIS CODE 1 58 POINT OR 1 53 0.07 CDI MEAN, IT'S, IT'S GERMAN TO ME, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.
AND I'M JUST HERE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE IS HARDSHIP AS WELL.
WE HAVE A RETIRED INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIVING ON A FIXED INCOME.
UM, I, IT, IT KIND OF CAME TO A SITUATION WHERE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, URGENT.
SO THE URGENCY, THEN I SAID, LET'S FIX IT.
LET'S FIX IT FOR NOW, AND THEN COME UP WITH A PLAN.
I THINK ULTIMATELY OUR TENANT WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL PARKING.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS TODAY.
TODAY IS JUST DO WE HAVE PERMISSION TO REMOVE THE, THE BUILDING IN ORDER TO IMPROVE THE SITE, UH, AESTHETICALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, I I THINK REBUILDING IT, I DON'T KNOW WITHOUT ESTIMATES AND, AND MAYBE WE GET TIME TO DO THAT, MAYBE WE PROVIDE SOME SORT OF COST ESTIMATE.
BUT WE WERE UNDER A BIT OF A TIME CONSTRAINT.
WE HAD TO BE AT THIS REVIEW MEETING THIS MONTH.
UM, AND WE MET WITH SARAH AND SOME OF THE OTHER, UM, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD STAFF LAST MONTH.
UM, AND AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT'S REQUIRED AT THIS TIME THAT YOU ALL NEED FROM US, OTHER THAN WHAT I'VE ALREADY PRESENTED.
THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE PROPERTY IS, IS NOT, UM, THE PROPERTY'S VERY SENTIMENTAL TO THE OWNERS.
AND IT, AGAIN, IT'S BEEN IN THEIR, HIS THEIR HISTORY, FAMILY HISTORY FOR YEARS THE SHED IS NOT, AND IS, IS IT IS NON-CONFORMING.
IT'S, I FOUND AN OLD LEASE BACK WHEN PAT, UH, BAKER HAD THE BUILDING NEXT DOOR AND IT WAS PARTY PANACHE.
SHE DOESN'T HAVE A BASEMENT IN THAT BUILDING ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
SO SHE RENTED THE SHED FOR 50 BUCKS A MONTH.
UM, SO IT'S REALLY NOT BEEN AN INCOME PRODUCING ENTITY ON THE PROPERTY WHERE THE HOUSE HAS.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY WOULD PREFER, THEY, THE OWNERS, UM, WOULD PREFER TO, TO DEMOLISH IT.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT COULD POTENTIALLY TRYING TO REBUILD IT AT THIS STATE COULD POTENTIALLY BE A HARDSHIP FOR, UM, FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER TO SUSTAIN THAT KIND OF MONETARY EXPENSE AND THEN ALSO KEEP DIANE'S RENT LOW.
SO,
UM, I'M DIANE NER, AND SARAH, NICE TO MEET YOU.
SO NICE TO MEET YOU IN PERSON.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I'VE WORKED IN OLD DUBLIN FOR 17 AND A HALF YEARS NOW.
UM, I WAS A HAIRSTYLIST AND NOW I'M A SALON OWNER, UH, FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS.
AND I, UH, I STARTED, I, I STARTED A SALON IN KATCH BEFORE KATCH WAS BUILT.
AND AS SOON AS I FINISHED, UH,
[02:25:01]
DECORATING AND OPENING UP, I FOUND OUT THAT THEY WERE TEARING THE BUILDING DOWN.SO THEN I WAS LUCKY, AND I'VE ALWAYS, FOR 20 YEARS I'VE WANTED TO HAVE A BUSINESS IN OLD DUBLIN AND IT JUST WORKED OUT THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS OPEN.
AND, UM, ANYWAY, AS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, I, YOU KNOW, HAVE COSTS AND THE COSTS KEEP RISING.
AND, UH, I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF BIG BUSINESS THAT IS MOVING IN.
AND I DO, UH, HAVE FOUR INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNERS THAT WORK WITH ME.
I NEED, UH, ANOTHER TWO FOR ME TO REALLY KEEP MY COSTS AT BAY.
AND, UM, SO THE, THE SHED IS TAKES UP SPACE.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, WE NEED THE SPACE.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, IT'S VERY HARD TO FIND PARKING IN OLD DUBLIN.
AND ONE OF THE GREAT REASONS ABOUT THIS, UH, LOCATION IS JUST THE FACT THAT THEY HAD SOME PARKING.
I NEED TO CUT, KEEP UP WITH COSTS.
AND HONESTLY, IT'S SUCH A PRETTY AREA BEHIND THERE.
I FEEL THAT IF THAT BUILDING WAS TAKEN DOWN AND THERE WERE SOME NICE TREES PUT UP ALONG THE EDGE THERE, IT WOULD JUST EVEN ADD MORE TO THAT LANE.
UM, THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL ARCHITECTURAL BUILDING AND HISTORICAL BUILDING IN FRONT OF IT RIGHT NEXT TO US.
AND, UM, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT WALK BACK AND FORTH DOWN THAT LANE A LOT.
UM, IT'S DIFFICULT PULLING OUT, UH, WHERE THE, THE SHED IS TO TURN, UH, LEFT OR ACTUALLY TO TURN LEFT.
IT'S, IT TOTALLY BLOCKS THE VIEW.
UM, SO I THINK IT'S A DANGEROUS SITUATION.
BUT, UM, ANYWAY, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU'VE COME UP WITH A CONCLUSION ABOUT THE BUILDING, JUST AS A BUSINESS OWNER, IT WOULD HELP TO HAVE MORE ROOM TO GROW AND, UH, STAY IN BUSINESS.
SO I APPRECIATE YOU GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK.
UM, ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANTS? OKAY.
UM, HAVE WE HAD ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? WE HAVE NOT.
SO WE, WE SEE THE STAFF'S, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS BECAUSE NONE THE CRITERIA HAVE BEEN MET YET.
THEY'VE NOT BEEN DEMONSTRATED.
SO DO, DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'VE RECOMMENDED WHAT THEY HAVE IN THE, IN THE REPORT? YEAH, IT'S, YEAH.
UM, AS, UH, I'VE SPENT MOST OF THE DAY DOING A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH AND, UM, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE ASPECT OF THIS APPLICATION.
UM, AGAIN, I FEEL AS IF WE RUSHED THIS, UM, BECAUSE WE WERE TOLD WE WE NEEDED TO COMPLETE THIS PAPERWORK.
UM, SO WE DID, AND IT WAS ME BY MYSELF.
UM, I DID, WE DID MEET WITH THE REVIEW BOARD, UM, AND, AND I AT THAT TIME AND EVEN BEFORE OUR MEETING EXPLAINED, I'M, I, THIS IS FOREIGN TO ME.
I DON'T, I NEED GUIDANCE, I NEED HELP.
UM, AND THEN IT WAS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF INFOR, WE WERE TOLD THAT IF WE DIDN'T SUBMIT IT BY THE NEXT WEEK AFTER OUR MEETING, THAT WE WOULDN'T MAKE THIS MEETING THIS MONTH.
UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, CONSEQUENCES COULD POTENTIALLY BE A VIOLATION OF CITY ORDERS AND SO FORTH.
I'LL READILY ADMIT THAT NOW I THINK I COULD EASILY SHOW PROOF OF HARDSHIP IF I UNDERSTOOD IT BETTER.
UM, AND MOST OF THE TIME WHEN I WOULD ASK FOR ADDITIONAL HELP, I WOULD BE GIVEN A, A NICE EMAIL THAT GAVE ME A LINK TO OPEN UP A FILE THAT WAS 30 PAGES LONG.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO INGEST THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT IS, AND MAYBE WE NEED
[02:30:01]
HELP, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, I ASKED DO I NEED AN ARCHITECT? DO I NEED A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT? DO I NEED, I DIDN'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, FOR REPAIRS WHEN WE FIRST GOT THE CITY ORDERS, I DIDN'T KNOW I NEEDED PERMITS FOR THAT.SO, YOU KNOW, THIS ALL STARTED IN JULY, BUT EVERY TIME I SAID, OKAY, WELL THE OWNERS HAVE DECIDED WE'RE GONNA REPAIR IT FOR NOW.
WELL, YOU CAN'T REPAIR IT 'CAUSE THERE'S, WELL, WE NEED TO TAKE THE TREE DOWN.
WELL, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT PERMIT.
SO WE FOLLOWED THE PROCESS AS REQUIRED BY THE CITY, AND IT'S TAKEN SEVERAL MONTHS TO GET TO THAT.
WE DID, UM, YOU KNOW, A BOARD UP THE STRUCTURE AND, UM, SECURE IT, UH, AND, AND STABILIZE IT.
UH, SO THAT WAS DONE, UH, WITH REALLY WONDERFUL HELP FROM, FROM MATT.
UH, BUT I JUST, I NEEDED MORE GUIDANCE AND I DIDN'T FEEL THAT I GOT IT PARTICULARLY.
YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE, WE CONTINUE THIS.
WELL, LEMME ASK, ASK YOU GO AHEAD.
I I JUST HAVE A QUESTION THAT I MEANT TO ASK EARLIER.
WHAT IS THE TIME CRUNCH? IS THAT BECAUSE THE CODE? I BELIEVE SO THE, IS THERE ANY WAY TO NEGOTIATE WITH CODE TO EXTEND IT, TO GIVE THEM MORE TIME? SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS, UM, THIS DISCUSSION STARTED BACK LAST OCTOBER AND THE BUILDING WAS OPEN AND UNSECURED, WHICH IS A CODE VIOLATION AND A DANGER AND A LIABILITY TO THE OWNER AS WELL.
IT'S A FIRE CODE VIOLATION AS WELL.
SO, UM, CODE ENFORCEMENT GOT INVOLVED AND AFTER SOME, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, AND THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING IS COUPLE OF LETTERS WENT OUT AND YOU HAVE THOSE COPIES IN YOUR PACKET.
SO, UM, THE FIRST LETTER WENT OUT TO SECURE THE BUILDING, IT WASN'T DONE.
A SECOND LETTER WENT OUT AND IT WAS SECURED.
AND THEN THE REMEDY FOR THE OWNERS, SINCE THEY STILL WANTED TO DEMOLISH IT, WAS TO COME BEFORE THIS BOARD AND SEEK A DEMOLITION PERMIT.
AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE GAVE A DEADLINE TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THIS HEARING SINCE NOW THIS IS MONTH 11 THAT WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS.
AND HONESTLY, THAT DEADLINE WAS NOT MET AND WE ACTUALLY GOT THE APPLICATION A FULL WEEK LATER.
SO WE DID GIVE ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION FOR THIS APPLICATION TO BE ABLE TO BRING IT BEFORE YOU TONIGHT TO BE MORE SPECIFIC.
THERE'S NOT A FINANCIAL PENALTY ATTACHED TO THIS YET.
NOT YET, RIGHT? I HAVE NOT READ THAT IN THE LETTERS.
AND THERE'S NO REAL DEADLINE LAID OUT EITHER.
BUT BECAUSE WE HAD SO MANY DELAYS, WE DID NOT WANT THIS STRUCTURE TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER WINTER AND POTENTIALLY BE DEMOLISHED WITHOUT BENEFIT OF A PERMIT.
WE ALSO WANTED TO GET THIS RESOLVED FOR OUR RECORDS AND CERTAINLY FOR THE OWNERS AND THE REPRESENTATIVES.
SO, UM, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO MEET OR SOMEBODY IN THE STAFF MEET PERSONALLY WITH MS. DAVIS AND GIVE THEM, BECAUSE I, I CAN UNDERSTAND SOMETIMES YOU GET AN EMAIL OR YOU GET A LINK AND IT'S 30 PAGES AND IT'S IF YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE, BUT IS, IS THERE SOMEBODY IN THE OFFICE AND MAYBE YOU'VE DONE THAT TO SOME EXTENT ALREADY? I DON'T KNOW.
WE HAVE, AND WE PROVIDED THE SUMMARY CHECKLIST FOR THE DEMOLITION THAT DESCRIBES WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AND THE RESULT WAS THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.
SO I GUESS I HAVE ONE QUESTION.
SO SARAH, YOU'RE SI DON'T RECALL GETTING ANY CITY ORDERS AND, AND MAYBE I DON'T RECALL FROM PRIOR TO JULY OF THIS YEAR.
I ONLY AM AWARE OF CITY ORDERS THAT STARTED JULY OF THIS YEAR.
I'M NOT AWARE OF OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR.
SO TWO, I RECALL SOME EMAILS LAST WINTER IN OCTOBER OF LAST, BUT NONE STEADY ORDERS THAT I REMEMBER IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR.
THAT WAS OUR FIRST PHONE CONVERSATION ABOUT WANTING TO DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE.
AND AT THAT POINT I EXPLAINED THAT THAT WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT THROUGH THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD, OR YOU COULD REPAIR IT WITH LIKE, FOR LIKE MATERIALS AND
[02:35:01]
NOT, YOU WOULD NOT NEED A BUILDING PERMIT, YOU WOULD NOT NEED BOARD APPROVAL.AND UM, AFTER THAT I FOLLOWED UP WITH SOME MORE INFORMATION, LEFT A MESSAGE FOR YOU.
AND THEN THE FOLLOWING, I THINK DECEMBER WE HAD ANOTHER CONVERSATION AND THEN, UM, DUE TO COMPLAINTS, THAT'S WHEN CODE ENFORCEMENT GOT INVOLVED IN JULY.
SO WE REALLY STARTED FOCUSING ON THIS IN JULY, UNFORTUNATELY, SO I, AND I, I KNOW ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER'S HAD SOME THINGS THEY WANNA SAY.
UM, BUT THE, THE CITY WOULD LIKE US TO MOVE THIS ALONG AND ACT ON THIS.
THAT IS ENOUGH TO SORT OF KEEP THINGS GOING.
BUT THIS CANNOT GO ON INDEFINITELY BECAUSE IF WE VOTE, AND RIGHT NOW THERE'S NOT, I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING HOW WE'LL VOTE, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S MET THE CRITERIA.
IF WE VOTE, ONE OPTION IS THEY COULD APPEAL TO THE, UM, ZONING APPEALS AND THEY COULD PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE TO THEM.
SO WE WOULDN'T, WE COULD KEEP THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS MOVING.
THEY STILL, THEY CONTINUE TO HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROVING EITHER ONE OR TWO.
UM, BUT IT'S, IT, WE, WE KEEP THE PROCESS GOING.
THEY'D STILL HAVE AN OPTION SO WE DON'T DELAY IT HERE.
UM, AND, AND THEY COULD APPEAL IT TO THAT BOARD.
IS THAT, DOES THAT ACCURATE? THAT IS CORRECT.
ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO TABLE IT TONIGHT AND HAVE IT COME BACK IN DECEMBER WITH THE FULL INFORMATION THAT'S NEEDED FOR ANALYSIS TO MAKE IT A, A DIFFERENT DETERMINATION.
AND THEN ASK FOR THIS BOARD'S WITH CONCURRENT, MAYBE A CON.
THAT WAS MY QUESTION FOR YOU ARE, IS THE CITY WILLING TO WAIT TILL THE DECEMBER MEETING? WE ARE, AND WE ALWAYS WORK WITH, UH, OKAY.
FOLKS THAT ARE IN THE PROCESS AS LONG AS THEY'RE ACTIVELY SURE.
SO JUST TO EXPLAIN TO OUR APPLICANT, IT, IT SEEMS THAT WHAT HAPPENED IS NOTHING HAPPENED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.
AND THEN ACTIONS RESULTED AT, UH, BECAUSE OF THAT 'CAUSE OF INACTION ACTIONS RESULTED BY THE CITY WHERE THEY SENT LETTERS SAYING THAT YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CODES.
AND WE'VE DISCUSSED THAT ABOUT FIRE CODE PROBLEMS AND SECURING THE BUILDING.
AND IT IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO IT IS SUBJECT TO OUR RULES, WHICH CAN BE COMPLICATED.
HOWEVER THE REPAIRS NEEDED, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
YOU COULD COME IN AND DEMONSTRATE IT'S GONNA COST US SO MUCH DOLLARS TO DO THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER FOR THE REPAIRS.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UM, INFORMATION FROM A STRUCTURAL PERSPECTIVE.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION THAT INDICATES, AND YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO OBTAIN THAT.
BUT WE HAVE NOTHING THAT SAYS, OH, AND THIS IS, UH, I THINK WE ARE ASSUMING IT'S GOING TO BE STRUCTURALLY SIGNIFICANT, UH, ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE OF ITS AGE AND BECAUSE OF THE, UH, GENERAL MATERIALS AND, AND ITS LOCATION, ET CETERA.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DISPROVE THAT.
SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO, TO MEET THE OTHER CRITERIA, YOU ONLY HAVE TO MEET ONE OF 'EM.
SO IT'S EITHER GONNA HAVE TO BE THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP SIDE, THIS IS WHAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE TO PREVENT IT FROM FURTHER DISREPAIR, OR THIS IS WHAT HAS, OR THAT WE JUST WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE THROUGH HISTORY THAT THIS PROPERTY, THIS, UM, WE'RE CALLING IT THE CHICKEN COOP OR THE WELL HOUSE IS IN FACT NOT A WELL HOUSE.
AND IT WAS A CHICKEN COOP THAT WAS BUILT IN 1942 OR 1958 OR WHATEVER, AND IT'S NOT HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT AND THEREFORE NOT CONTRIBUTING.
THAT WOULD BE HOW YOU WOULD FALL INTO OUR CRITERIA.
IN THE EVENT THAT YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO ESTABLISH THAT FOR US IS LIKELY THE BOARD WOULD VOTE TO DENY THE DEMOLITION REQUEST BECAUSE OUR JOB IS TO PREPARE TO PRESERVE THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THESE BUILDINGS, THE HISTORIC NATURE OF OUR DISTRICT AND THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE IN
[02:40:01]
WITHIN THAT DISTRICT.HOWEVER, EVEN AT THAT POINT, YOU WOULD STILL THEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TO SAY WE THINK THAT THE, UH, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD MADE A MISTAKE.
SO I WOULD SAY YOU COULD TABLE EVERYTHING NOW AND COME BACK IN A MONTH, WORK WITH THE STAFF, AND THEN WE WILL LOOK AT WHATEVER OTHER D ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE, OR WE CAN PROCEED TO MAKE A DECISION BASED ON YOUR SUBMISSIONS.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE NUMBER THREE IMPEDES ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT AND DISTRACTS FROM THE DE FROM THE DISTRICT.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT THAT REALLY ENTAILS? UM, WELL FIRST OF ALL, THE, UM, SARAH INDICATED IN THE PRESENTATION THAT THE STRUCTURE'S NOT IN THE RIGHT OF WAY OF THE ALLEY.
MEANING IT'S NOT IN THAT, THAT PART OF THE ALLEY THAT'S MEANT FOR UTILITIES AS WELL AS TRANSPORTATION.
SO IT IS NOT DISRUPTING TRAFFIC.
YOU, YOU'VE SAID, WELL, IT'S TOUGH TO GET OUT.
WELL THAT'S IN ANY DENSE CITY, IT'S TOUGH TO MAKE TURNS WHERE YOU HAVE BUILDINGS.
SO THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS REFERS TO.
IT'S NOT WHAT, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS REFERS TO, THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO MAKE A TURN BECAUSE YOUR SIGHT LINE IS OBSTRUCTED BY THAT BUILDING.
WHAT IT'S REFERRING TO IS THE ABILITY TO DEVELOP THAT OR, OR, OR TO DO THINGS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY THAT THE CITY'S EXPECTED TO DO, LIKE REPAVE, LIKE RUN UTILITIES.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THAT ONE IS ABOUT AND THAT'S WHY IT DOESN'T MEET THAT CRITERIA.
IT'S NOT ABOUT ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT ON YOUR PROPERTY NECESSARILY.
SO THE FACT THAT IT JUST COMPLETELY BLOCKS WHEN YOU TURN OUT.
WELL, NOW THAT'S LIKE COMPLETELY, THAT'S, THAT'S ARGUABLE TOO.
SO, UM, YEAH, I I NO THAT IT WOULD NOT MEET THE CRITERIA.
AND WHAT ABOUT DISTRACTS FROM DISTRICT? ACTUALLY OUTBUILDINGS ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE DISTRICT.
OUTBUILDINGS ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF ANY HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE THEY REFLECT THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT'S HISTORIC.
SO IN HAVING, MAINTAINING THEM IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
IN FACT, THE BUILDING JUST TO THE NORTH OF YOUR PROPERTY THAT'S COME BEFORE US WITH A PROPOSAL IS TRYING TO UTILIZE A WELLHOUSE IN THE WAY THEY'RE DEVELOPING THE PROPERTY.
SO THEIR OUTBUILDINGS ARE IMPORTANT IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
WELL, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THIS IS A COMMERCIAL AREA AND, BUT IT USED TO BE, BUT IT USED TO BE A RESIDENTIAL AREA AND THAT'S WHAT THE, THE LOOK OF THE RESIDENTIAL OF THE HISTORY OF THE AREA IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE.
SO THOSE OUTBUILDINGS, A CHICKEN COOP AS A MATTER OF FACT, SHOWS THE HISTORY THAT PEOPLE LIVED HERE AND HAD CHICKENS HERE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE USED AS A CHICKEN COOP NOW, BUT TO PRESERVE THE LOOK OF THE AREA SHOWS OUR HISTORY AND OUR DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENT.
WELL, I, I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY, BUT ALSO I, I DO BELIEVE IT DOES DISTRACT FROM THE BEAUTY OF THE AREA.
WELL, I THINK YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE LACK OF MAINTENANCE IS REALLY WHAT'S DISTRACTING.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT ROOF, UM, AND, AND THE WAY THAT IT HASN'T BEEN MAINTAINED, THAT'S REALLY THE DISTRACTION.
HAVING A SIMPLE WHITE VOLUME BACK THERE IS NOT A DISTRACTION.
BUT THE LACK OF MAINTENANCE AND THE WAY THAT ROOF LOOKS AND THE WAY THE FASCIA FACING THE ALLEY LOOKS, THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE FIXED.
BUT THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER SHEDS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD A LOT OF SHEDS THAT HAVE BEEN HISTORIC, THAT HAVE BEEN IN RUINS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY HAS ALLOWED THE BUSINESSES TO, TO DOWN.
AND THEY'VE MET, THEY'VE MET THE CRITERIA WE'RE YOU NEED TO MEET THE CRITERIA.
AND, AND WE SAID IT IN OUR EARLIER CONVERSATION AMONGST US, MARTY PARAPHRASED IT, YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO MEET ONE OR TWO.
WE DON'T THINK YOU CAN MEET THREE.
AND I THINK THE MEETING WE, IF WE DO, IF YOU ASK US TO TABLE THIS, I THINK IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION AT THAT MEETING, CHANCES ARE WE'RE ALL GONNA SAY NO, YOU CAN'T DEMOLISH IT.
SO WE, I THINK THE, THE CONSENSUS I FEEL IS EVERYBODY HERE IS WILLING TO ENTERTAIN TABLING THIS ONE TIME, ONE TIME ENTERTAIN WHAT? THAT YOU COULD TABLE IT, MEANING WE WON'T VOTE TONIGHT.
GARY, COULD I JUST ASK ONE QUESTION OF SARAH? YEAH.
IF CUS APPEALED TO THE ZONING APPEALS, IS THAT WHERE IT GOES BOARD? IS IT, IS IT A, I'M GONNA USE A TECHNICAL TERM HERE THAT PROBABLY MARTY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS, BUT IS THAT A HEARING
[02:45:01]
DE NOVO? DO THEY GET TO PRESENT EVIDENCE THERE? IS IT JUST AN APPEAL OF OUR RECORD? BOTH.THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS WILL ACCEPT DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE.
THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE PROBLEM FOR THE APPLICANT IS THAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT WHETHER OUR ACTIONS WERE PROPER IN ACCORD LAW AT THE TIME.
SO, SO YOU'RE BETTER OFF TABLING.
IT'S NOT A TRIAL, IT'S A, IT'S A LOOSE EVIDENTIARY, UH, PRESENTATION.
BUT UM, YES, WITHOUT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THERE'S NO WAY THEY WOULD YES, REVERSE US.
BUT THEY ALSO LOOK TO SEE IF WE MADE ANY ERRORS IN OUR JUDGMENT.
SO YOU'RE BETTER OFF TABLING IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.
AND PRESENT YOUR EVIDENCE TO US FIRST, RATHER THAN HAVING US TAKE A VOTE NOW AND THEN APPEALING IT TO BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
AND IN FACT, I THINK WE HAVE SENT THINGS BACK TO THE, TO THE ARBI THINK WHEN I SAT ON THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, I BELIEVE WE SENT SOMETHING BACK TO THE ARB FOR MORE, FOR FOR MORE INFORMATION OR AT LEAST HAD A CASE.
SO WHERE WE SAID THAT'S WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.
THAT THAT TELLS ME A LOT RIGHT THERE THAT THE, SO THAT, AND WE'LL USE IT IN LOOSE TERMS, BUT THE TRIAL, THE HEARING HAS TO HAPPEN HERE.
THE EVIDENCE HAS TO BE PRESENTED HERE RATHER THAN IT ZONING APPEALS.
IT, I'M NOT SAYING IT COULDN'T BE PRESENTED AT JUST DIRECTLY TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
IF FOR INSTANCE, WE PROCEEDED, YOU SAID, NOPE, JUST GO AHEAD, WE WANNA HAVE OUR DECISION NOW, THEN WE DECIDE AND THEN YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
AND THEN YOU GO TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS AND THEN THEY REVIEW OUR RECORD AND THEY REVIEW THE STAFF REPORT AND THEY REVIEW THE CRITERIA.
AND THEN THEY WOULD PRESUMABLY, AND I'M NOT ON THE BOARD NOW SO I CAN'T SPEAK TO HOW THEY'RE OPERATING, BUT PRESUMABLY THEY WOULD ACCEPT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU MIGHT HAVE.
BUT WHAT THEY RELY ON US TO DO IS TO LOOK AT THE RECORD THAT'S PRESENTED TO US AND MAKE A DETERMINATION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW.
AND WHAT WE ARE GENERALLY SAYING IS, AT THIS POINT, WE DON'T THINK YOU'VE PROVIDED THE INFORMATION NEEDED TO GET THE RESULT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.
YOU HAVEN'T MET THOSE CRITERIA.
DOESN'T MEAN IT COULDN'T HAPPEN.
AND THAT'S WHY I THINK WE ARE MORE OF THE MINDSET THAT YOU OUGHTA MAYBE COME BACK AGAIN IN A MONTH WITH SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, BOTH IN MAYBE EXPLORING WHAT YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO DO TO PRESERVE IT.
AND BEYOND THAT, UM, IF YOU ARE JUST DON'T THINK IT'S PRESERVABLE, TELL US WHY.
SHOW US WHAT YOU'VE, WHAT, UH, INFORMATION YOU HAVE ABOUT WHY IT'S NOT, UH, CAPABLE OF BEING PRESERVED ECONOMICALLY.
ECONOMICALLY, NOT AESTHETICALLY.
UH, WE DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE IT'S ON THE CORNER OF THE LOT.
IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AN ECONOMIC BURDEN.
FUNDAMENTALLY WE'RE BOUND BY THE THREE THINGS IN THE CODE, RIGHT? THIS IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT THAT WE SOMEHOW YOU HAVE TO HELP US FIND A WAY THAT GETS YOU TO, OR, OR, OR WE'LL FIND, THERE'S NOT A WAY TO GO FORWARD.
SO IT'S FUNDAMENTAL THAT ONE OF THESE THREE CRITERIA AND YOU HAVE TO COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, IT, WE MEET ONE, ONE OR TWO OR THREE AND THIS IS THE REASON AND HERE'S THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE.
AND THEN THAT'LL, THAT'LL ALLOW US, WITHOUT THAT WE'RE UNABLE ACTUALLY TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
'CAUSE YOUR BURDEN IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN FIND A CRITERIA ONE, TWO, OR THREE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO MAKE A CHOICE OF WHAT YOU NEED, WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO DO.
SO, AND OF THOSE, GARY IS RIGHT WHEN HE HAS MENTIONED THAT ONE IS PROBABLY THE EASIER OF THE TWO, BUT IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE OTHER SOURCES OR RESOURCES IN THE CITY THAT MIGHT HELP YOU DETERMINE WHEN WAS THAT BUILDING ACTUALLY BUILT.
AND WHETHER OR NOT IT IS CONTRIBUTING, IF YOU'RE IN, IF YOU'RE IN FACILITIES MANAGEMENT, IF YOU'RE MANAGING PROPERTIES, I WOULD THINK YOU HAVE, UM, SMALL CONTRACTORS THAT YOU DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS.
SO THAT'S THE KIND OF PERSON WHO COULD WALK THROUGH AND SAY, YOU NEED TO DO X, Y, AND Z AND PUT DOLLARS TO IT.
SO IT IT'S NOT FOR A STRUCTURE LIKE THIS, IT'S NOT A COMPLEX PROCESS TO DO THAT.
IS IT CLEAR TO YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO SHOW BEFORE WE CAN APPROVE DEMOLITION? I GUESS I JUST CLARIFY FROM WHAT I'VE WITNESSED HERE OVER THE LAST FEW HOURS AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS PROCESS.
UM, THE, THE PRIOR APPLICATIONS, 16 NORTH HIGH STREET, THERE'S AN OUTBUILDING AND YOU HAVE APPROVED THAT DEMOLITION UHUH? NO, THAT'S, THAT'S A CONCEPTUAL REVIEW.
THEY'LL COME BACK WITH THE SAME THING.
I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO, BECAUSE
[02:50:01]
I DROVE THAT WHOLE ALLEY AND IT'S, IT IS DILAPIDATED AS OUR SHED.THAT ENTIRE BLACKSMITH ALLEY'S A MESS.
THEY WILL BE BEFORE US AT LEAST TWO MORE TIMES.
SO TONIGHT WAS JUST A CONCEPTUAL REVIEW AND OUR TENTATIVE APPROVAL WAS BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY CAN MEET ONE OF THOSE THREE CRITERIA.
COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS, BECAUSE OF THE RESOURCES THEY HAVE, THEY, THEY HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN PUT PRICES ON THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO WE HAVE HAD, AND WHEN WE'VE APPROVED DEMOLITION, WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD COST ESTIMATES FOR IT.
SO I CAN DEFINITELY COME DO THAT.
IT APPEARS YOU HAVE ONE OR TWO ROUTES YOU CAN TAKE.
SO NOW WE CAN, WE CAN TALK PROCESS.
SO YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE ALL SUGGESTING IS THAT YOU ASK US TO TABLE YOUR APPLICATION AND NOT VOTE TONIGHT ON IT BECAUSE IF WE VOTE IT AS IT IS, WE WILL PROBABLY VOTE NO, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO DEMOLISH IF WE, UH, IF YOU TABLE IT, YOU CAN COME BACK, YOU HAVE TIME TO GET THE INFORMATION, YOU CAN COME BACK, MAKE YOUR CASE.
WE START AGAIN AND WE MIGHT, WE MIGHT APPROVE IT.
SO I'M GOING TO ASK THE COUNCIL TO TABLE UNTIL NEXT MONTH.
THE NEXT I DO HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION AND I KNOW IT'S LATE.
SO I JUST APPRECIATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
UM, WHEN I WAS THERE TODAY, I NOTICED WHAT LOOKED LIKE A SURVEY STAKE AND IT HAD WHAT I THINK SAID EASEMENT AND IT WAS HALFWAY INTO THE BUILDING WHERE THE, ALL THOSE NEW UNDERGROUND UTILITIES ARE.
SO AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, THAT THE STRUCTURE IS ACTUALLY IN AN UTILITY EASEMENT OR, OR IS THAT STAKE ON THERE BY ACCIDENT? I, WHEN I WAS THERE TODAY, UM, BECAUSE I THINK I LEFT SHOW THERE WAS A LOT OF, THERE WAS A LOT OF UTILITY WORK BEING DONE YEAH.
SO I HAVE A FEELING THAT'S A RESULT OF THAT PROCESS AND THERE ARE UTILITY EASEMENTS, UM, ALL THAT AREA.
SO I DON'T KNOW THE RELATIONSHIP AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF US HERE KNOW THE RELATIONSHIP OF THOSE BUILDINGS TO THE EASEMENTS.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE.
IF IT'S ACTUALLY SITTING IN A, A UTILITY EASEMENT OR NOT.
I WOULD DOUBT IT HIGHLY BASED ON THE WORK THAT BRIAN GABLE HAS DONE WITH THAT PROJECT.
AND HE'S COME BEFORE YOU TO EXPLAIN THAT WHAT THEY'VE BEEN CREATING, THINKING BACK TO HIS PRESENTATIONS, ARE EASEMENTS THAT ALLOW FOR THOSE UTILITY BOXES AND PEDESTALS TO BE PUT IN AND THEY'RE SQUARE IN NATURE.
THEY'RE NOT, UM, RUNNING PARALLEL TO THE ROAD.
SO I SUSPECT THAT THAT'S WHAT THAT IS.
HE KNOWS THAT, UH, WE PRESERVE THINGS IN THE DISTRICT AND WE'RE NOT RUNNING EASEMENTS THROUGH BUILDINGS.
AND, AND THE UTILITY BOX HAS ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THAT SHED.
WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THOUGH ABOUT THAT STAKE AND ITS, UM, APPLICATION TO THE PROPERTY AND TO THE UTILITY EASEMENT, THEN YOU COULD GO TO THE UM, DEPARTMENT, TO THE BUILD TO THE ROAD FOLKS AND ASK THEM, OKAY, WHAT, WHY IS THIS STAKE IN THIS BUILDING OR WHY, WAS IT BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING IT'S ACTUALLY WAS YOU FOUND IT STUCK INTO THE BUILDING? YES.
AND IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S THREE, YOU KNOW, IT'S FAIRLY, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE EAST DIRECTION.
I MEAN IT'S INCORPORATED ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF THE BUILDING ON ALONG THAT MILL ST.
I DON'T HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE IT EAST OF WHERE THE, YOU KNOW, OF THE ALLEY INTO THE BUILDING.
I WOULD ASK FOR CLARIFICATION OF WHAT THAT MEANT OR WHAT THAT WAS.
I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT BEFORE.
SO I'M JUST, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS PLACED INCORRECTLY OR IF THAT'S NEW OR IF THE BUILDING IS ACTUALLY SITTING IN A UTILITY EASEMENT.
BUT I'LL, I'LL WELL YOUR UTILITY BOX IS CLEARLY REALLY NEW AND PART OF THAT CORRECT WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE AND THERE IS MORE WORK GOING TO BE DONE IN THAT GENERAL AREA.
SO YOU COULD DEFINITELY FOLLOW UP WITH THAT.
YEAH, THAT'S OUTSIDE OUR, OUR PURVIEW.
SO IS THERE A MOTION TO ENTERTAIN? SO THE REQUEST IS TO TABLE UNTIL DECEMBER'S MEETING? YES.
SARAH, CAN WE PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA IN DECEMBER? WE CAN.
UM, THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE TO GET THAT INFORMATION TO US IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.
AND, AND WE'RE GONNA ASK YOU TO MEET THAT DEADLINE INSTEAD OF BEING BECAUSE LATE I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS LATE.
THAT'S, I MEAN, I KNOW I'M RUNNING BEHIND.
UM, BUT ANYWAYS, I'M NOT GONNA MAKE EXCUSES
AND THE INFORMATION'S NOT HERE, THEN WE'LL PROBABLY VOTE.
[02:55:01]
IT LOOKS LIKE WITH WHAT WE HAVE NOW, IF IT DOESN'T CHANGE, WE'RE NOT GONNA APPROVE THE DEMOLITION.SO IF YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT IT IN DECEMBER, THERE'S PRESSURE ON YOU.
YEAH, I I JUST WANNA ENFORCE THAT THE STAFF'S DEADLINE.
'CAUSE THE STAFF HAS TO READ IT AND, AND ANALYZE THE WHOLE SITUATION BEFORE IT EVEN COMES TO US.
SO IF YOU CAN MAKE THE STAFF'S DEADLINE.
AND THAT IS DECEMBER ONE OR NOVEMBER 30TH OR TODAY'S THE 15TH.
SO TWO WEEKS FROM TODAY WOULD BE PERFECT.
WE CAN, WE CAN WORK WITH THAT.
SO IN THAT CASE I MOVE THAT WE TABLE THIS MATTER UNTIL THE, IS THERE A SECOND? I CAN SECOND THAT.
JUST FOR A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, I'M GONNA POSTPONE YOUR, THE MOTION WAS TO POSTPONE TO THE DECEMBER MEETING, CORRECT? YES.
[Adoption of the 2024 Hearing Schedule]
ADOPTION OF THE 2024 HEARING SCHEDULE.EVERYBODY LOOK AT THOSE DATES SINCE LAST MEETING.
YEAH, YOU MOVED THE MARCH ONE.
SO YOU'VE GOT THE DATES IN YOUR PACKET AND, UM, IF THEY ARE ACCEPTABLE TO YOU, WE NEED A MOTION FOR THAT, PLEASE.
WELL, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T LOOK, I ASSUMED THEY STAYED THE SAME.
WHAT'S THE MARCH? WHAT'S THE MARCH? WHAT'S CHANGED? I THINK LOOK AT THE, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CHANGED ANYTHING.
BAAM, DO YOU KNOW IF WE ACTUALLY CHANGED ANYTHING? ARE YOU SURE? OKAY.
I, HAVING BEEN OUT OF THE OFFICE FOR A LITTLE BIT, I THINK THE MARCH DATE WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AT MARCH 15TH, WHICH WAS BEFORE THE SCHOOL SPRING BREAK.
IT HAS NOW BEEN MOVED TO MARCH 29TH, WHICH IS AFTER SPRING BREAK 27TH.
BUT IT WAS MOVED UP QUITE EARLY OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
AND I KNOW I, THAT WAS A CONCERN FOR ME.
SO, AND THEN THEY HAD AN ATTACHMENT TO THE DATES THAT SHOWED ALL THE OTHER POTENTIAL IMPACTING EVENTS GOING ON EACH MONTH.
SO, WHICH I HAD THE 27TH DOWN, SO YEAH, JUST I DIDN'T A CHANGE, I MEAN, FOR ME, I'M GONNA MISS TWO.
I KNOW I ALREADY, THERE ALREADY HAVE WORK THINGS THAT I, WELL ONE OF 'EM WILL BE IN THE GALAPAGOS, BUT IF WE MOVE IT TO THE NEXT WEEK FROM THE 27TH, THEN IT GETS CLOSE TO, I MEAN, THEN WE START TO RUN OUT.
YOU START TO RUN OUT A MONTH THE NEXT MONTH.
SO I, I JUST KNOW I'LL MISS, SO AS LONG AS NOBODY HAS A CONFLICT ON MARCH 27TH OR TWO PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE HERE.
YEAH, WELL WE DO HAVE APPARENTLY A CONFLICT IN FEBRUARY FOR TWO OF US.
MR. ULMA, I DUNNO IF ANYBODY ELSE IS OFF FOR OH, YOU'LL BE GONE.
AND THEN I'LL BE BACK FOR THE MARCH FOR SURE.
AND I'M NOT AND I WON'T BE HERE.
SO THOSE TWO I KNOW I'M, I'M IN EUROPE, SO, SO WE'RE KEEPING THE DATES THEN THOUGH, SO AS LONG AS THERE'S ENOUGH, AS LONG AS WE'RE GOOD AND EVERYBODY'S GOOD ON JANUARY AND MARCH FOR ME, THEN I SHOULD BE HERE.
MAKE A, SO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
WE DO NEED A MOTION FOR THAT PLEASE.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE PROPOSED MEETING DATES FOR THE BOARD FOR 24 25.
[COMMUNICATIONS]
THING I WANTED TO MENTION WAS A FOLLOW UP ON THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CODE UPDATES THAT WAS RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL BY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION RECENTLY, UM, THERE WAS A BIT OF A DISCUSSION ABOUT NOTIFICATION OF HISTORIC DISTRICT STATUS PRIOR TO PURCHASE FOR PEOPLE.UM, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT, BUT THERE WAS A DISCUSSION AND IT IS GOING TO CITY COUNCIL ON DECEMBER 11TH.
SO IF YOU WANNA FOLLOW ALONG WITH THAT, YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME.
SO THAT'S OUR LANGUAGE CHANGE ESSENTIALLY.
THE CONTRIBUTING NON-CONTRIBUTING TO LANDMARK AND BACKGROUND.
WHAT'S THE STATUS OF THE WALL? I WAS GONNA ASK, I I, 'CAUSE SEAN WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH, HE SAID YOU'VE GOTTA SEE THIS CHUNK OF CONCRETE.
AND SO I'M, I'M UP THERE LOOKING AT IT TODAY AND I'M GOING, IT'S BEEN AT LEAST A MONTH SINCE IT'S BEEN THAT WAY THEN.
SO A COUPLE DAYS AGO WE HAD A MEETING AT THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE ABOUT WHAT TO DO NEXT.
[03:00:02]
STAFF WAS ABLE TO CLARIFY FOR, UM, BOTH OWNERS ABOUT WHAT THEY NEED TO DO NEXT TO KEEP THINGS MOVING.WE REMINDED THEM THAT THE BOARD DID, UM, APPROVE OPTIONS BASED ON THE POTENTIAL STRUCTURAL SITUATION AND WHETHER OR NOT A CONCRETE FALSE WALL WAS NEEDED BEHIND THE STONE WALL OR WHETHER WE COULD DO A DRY LA SITUATION.
SO WE REMINDED THEM OF THAT OPPORTUNITY.
UM, THE, THE VAULT APPEARS TO BE AN OLD SEPTIC TANK SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TWO STORY
WOULDN'T THAT BE FASCINATING IF IT WAS, UM, IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER AND BETTER THAT IT DOES THAT SIDE OF THE STREET.
SO THE, THE APPLICANT'S ENGINEER NEEDS TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE REMOVE THAT THING? WHAT VOIDS IT LEAVES AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE DO TO ADDRESS THAT? UM, THE BALL IS FIRMLY IN THE APPLICANT'S COURT.
THEY KNOW THIS AND, UM, THERE WE ARE.
I CANNOT BELIEVE THEY HAVEN'T ACTED ON IT.
YEAH, I KNOW IT'S BEEN LIKE THAT.
AT LEAST BECAUSE I, WHEN I LOOKED AT THE OTHER DAY.
YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S TERRIBLE.
I MEAN, WE GAVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT BECAUSE WE SAID AT THAT MEETING, WE'LL APPROVE THIS ESSENTIALLY CON CONDITION.
IT'S ON THE DENTIST CONDITIONALLY.
RIGHT, BECAUSE, BECAUSE IT WELL IT IMPACTS THOUGH THAT I IT IMPACTS THE OTHER, IT REALLY FALLS TO WHAT DOES THE YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
I'M SURE THERE'S SOME, WE STILL HAVE THE, THE SEWER PIPE.
SO HOPEFULLY, 'CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU CAN, SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, 'CAUSE THAT WAS IN ONE OF THE CONDI, THE, UH, THE PIPE THAT'S THERE, THAT'S OUTSIDE THE WALL, THE PEOPLE THAT WENT OUT AND TALKED ABOUT CODE VIOLATIONS FOR THIS LAST PROJECT, CAN THEY GO OUT AND LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, WHY ISN'T THERE ANY ACTION ON THIS? MM-HMM.
IT DOESN'T SEEM FAIR THAT THESE PEOP YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T ACTING.
IT'S REALLY IN, WELL IT'S NOT NECESSARILY SAFE THE WAY, THE WAY IT'S NOT NECESSARILY SAFE.
AND I CAN CERTAINLY TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT IT AND TALK WITH OUR CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL TO SEE, UM, BUILDING, I DON'T KNOW THAT BUILDING.
I KNOW FIRE DOESN'T HAVE ANY JURISDICTION, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT BUILDING DOES EITHER.
I KNOW THAT SOME CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED ABOUT PUTTING UP SO PEOPLE DON'T DRIVE OFF THE UPPER LEVEL OR PEDESTRIANS DON'T FALL OFF.
SO SOMETHING ABOUT PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, WHOEVER DOES THAT SORT OF THING.
SO THAT WOULD BE CODE ENFORCEMENT.
I CAN CERTAINLY ASK ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
AND OF COURSE WHOEVER IS THE AESTHETIC POLICE AROUND HERE, BUT YOU KNOW.
THAT PROPERTY IS DETERIORATING AND SEE AT SOME POINT THEY'RE GONNA COME TO US AND IT'S JUST A MASSIVE MESS.
SO THEY, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING GOING ON OVER THERE OR EVEN TRYING TO SHORE IT UP A LITTLE BIT NOW.
'CAUSE THE WOOD'S STARTING TO FALL OFF THE FRONT.
UM, IT'S JUST BECOMING A REAL EYESORE IN REGARDS TO MAINTENANCE.
SO THAT IS SCHEDULED TO COME BEFORE YOU NEXT MONTH.
UH, WHAT KIND OF AN AGENDA DO WE HAVE FOR NEXT MONTH? PRETTY FULL.
UH, WE HAVE TWO CHEESE WILL COME BACK.
NO, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE READY UNTIL SPRINGTIME.
SO WE'LL HAVE THE APOTHECARY AND, UM, ONE 19 AND THE DEADLINE HAS ALREADY PASSED FOR THE DECEMBER HEARING FOR ANYTHING NEW.
OH, THAT WON'T BE, IT'LL BE MANAGEABLE.
IS THERE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
YOU NEED A SECOND? NO, YOU DON'T.