Nov 09, 2023 Planning &amp; Zoning Commission

WE HAVE, UH, MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER 12TH, 2023, UM, UH, FOR ACCEPTANCE INTO THE RECORD, ALONG WITH TONIGHT'S DOCUMENTATION.

WELCOME, MS. BEAL.

I'LL TURN TIME OVER TO YOU.

WILL YOU PLEASE CALL ROLL MR. CHINOOK? HERE.

[ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS and APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]

DO I HAVE A MOTION? SO MOVED.

THANK YOU, MR. SUPER ACT.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND.

THANK YOU, MS. HARDER.

THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD TO CITY COUNCIL WHEN PLANNING OF PROPERTY AND REZONING ARE UNDER CONSIDERATION.

IN SUCH CASES, CITY COUNCIL RECEIVES A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMISSION.

IN OTHER CASES, THE COMMISSION HAS THE FINAL DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY.

ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON ANY OF THESE ADMINISTRATIVE CASES MUST BE SWORN IN THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.

STATE THAT NO NEW AGENDA ITEMS ARE TO BE INTRODUCED.

AFTER 10:30 PM THE APPLICANT WILL PRESENT THEIR CASE FIRST, FOLLOWED BY STAFF ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATION, AFTER WHICH THE COMMISSION WILL THEN ASK QUESTIONS OF BOTH THE APPLICANT AND STAFF.

FOLLOWING THAT, WE WILL PROCEED TO PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN DELIBERATE ON EACH CASE.

ANYONE INTENDING TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON ANY OF THESE ADMINISTRATIVE CASES, WILL YOU PLEASE STAND, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THIS COMMISSION? THANK YOU.

THERE ARE TWO CASES, UH, TWO APPLICATIONS

[Case #23-091 PP & Case #23-092 FP]

ELIGIBLE FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA THIS EVENING.

BOTH OF THE CASES ARE TOWNS ON THE PARKWAY.

SECTION THREE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT CASE, 23 DASH 91 PP AND 23 DASH 92 FP.

DOES ANYONE WISH TO HAVE THESE CASES REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA? SEEING NONE, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA.

SO MOVED.

THANK YOU, MR. SUPAK.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND.

OUR FIRST CASE FOR REVIEW IS PENZONE BASE ONE AT 66 71 VILLAGE PARKWAY.

UH, TOWNS ON THE PARKWAY IF YOU'RE HERE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING, AND THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR EFFICIENCY.

WE CERTAINLY WELCOME THE TOWNS ON THE PARKWAY DEVELOPMENT TO OUR BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT.

ALRIGHT, MOVING ON.

[Case #23-106AFDP]

AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

CAN WE PLEASE PUT UP THE SLIDE SHOWING THE SITE LOCATION AND THE REVIEW PROCESS STAGE AS THOSE ARE BEING PUT UP? UH, THIS IS A PROPOSAL FOR AN AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS TO AN EXISTING BUILDING.

THE APPROXIMATELY THREE AND A HALF ACRE SITE IS ZONED B-S-D-S-C-N BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT SAW, MILL CENTER NEIGHBORHOOD, AND IS LOCATED NORTHWEST AT THE ROUNDABOUT AT VILLAGE PARKWAY.

AND BRIDGE PARK AVENUE IS OUR APPLICANT HERE IN ATTENDANCE.

I'LL INVITE YOU TO THE PODIUM.

IF YOU COULD PRESS THE BUTTON, WAIT UNTIL THE GREEN LIGHT ON THE MICROPHONE AS SHOWN HERE IS ON.

PERFECT.

AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

UH, GOOD EVENING.

I'M CHRIS MYERS WITH MYERS AND ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTS.

I'M MIKE BURMEISTER WITH MYERS AND ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTS.

AND YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD? UH, 2 32 NORTH THIRD STREET, COLUMBUS, OHIO.

WELCOME.

SO TONIGHT WE'RE HERE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT AN AMENDMENT.

AND DO YOU HAVE A PRESENTATION FOR US, US THIS EVENING? UH, I THINK WE DO.

WONDERFUL.

[00:05:01]

UH, WE'RE SEEKING FOR A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FINN APPLICATION ON A BUILDING, WHICH IS CALLED THE ONE BUILDING, UH, WHICH IS THE PENZONE ORIGINAL GRAND SALON.

UH, UH, YOU MIGHT KNOW US FROM OTHER PROJECTS WE'VE DONE ADJACENT, UH, INCLUDING THE NEW SALON, UH, RIGHT OUT ON THE ROUNDABOUT.

AND THEN WE HAVE A FEW OTHER PROJECTS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION.

UH, FOR NEXT MONTH, WE'LL BE BACK KIND OF WITH A CONCEPTUAL REVIEW OF A GALLERY PROJECT AND SOME OTHER BUILDINGS, UH, AS WELL TONIGHT WE JUST WANTED TO WALK YOU THROUGH SOME OF THE, UH, BRIEF HISTORY OF THE, HOW WE'VE GOTTEN TO THE POINT.

UH, AND WE'D LIKE TO JUST REEVALUATE ONE OF THE, UH, EXTERIOR FINISHES.

SO, UH, MIKE HERE IS, UH, OUR PROJECT MANAGER AND PROJECT ARCHITECT WORKING.

HE'S GONNA WALK US THROUGH SOME OF THE, UH, THE STEPS THAT WE'VE GOTTEN TO THIS POINT, AND THEN I'M GONNA KIND OF FILL IN WITH A COUPLE OF THE OTHER ITEMS. THANK YOU.

GOOD EVENING EVERYONE.

UH, SO, UH, TAYLOR, OUR CASE MANAGER AS YOU HAVE IT UP THANK YOU, IS SHOWING YOU THESE ARE SOME OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT WE PRESENTED TO YOU OF THE BUILDING BASE.

ONE, UH, LAST YEAR WHEN WE WERE IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL FOR OUR PROJECT.

AND THE ISSUES THAT WE WERE ADDRESSING IS THE EXTERIOR FINISHES OF THE BRICK, THE STUCCO, AND BRINGING THIS TO THE NEW AGE OF WHAT THE PENZONE BRAND IS AND THE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, 'CAUSE IT'S BEEN SITTING PRETTY DERELICT FOR A LITTLE WHILE NOW.

SO IF WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

UH, THE OVERALL CAMPUS APPROACH IS, WE'RE SEEING HERE IS THIS IS THE ONE BUILDING AND WE'VE BEEN DOING MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE LANDSCAPING, THE SITE IMPROVEMENTS, BUT THE OUTSIDE, UH, WAS A FACELIFT TO THE PROJECT.

AND SO IF WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, THIS IS WHERE IT'S LOCATED, , BUT WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE, UH, THE RENDERINGS AND THE ELEVATIONS IF YOU COULD PLEASE.

SO THIS IS THE, THE IMAGES THAT WE HAD BEEN APPROVED WHEN WE WERE IN FRONT OF THE BOARD LAST YEAR WITH THE SEMITRANSPARENT STANDING OF THE BRICK PAINTING OF THE STUCCO, UH, APPLICATION OF THE NEW RESPA SIMULATED WOOD PANELING ON THE FACADE, NEW ROOF, UH, MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT TO THE LANDSCAPING OF THE SITE AND THE PROPERTY.

AND SO THE CONDITION WE WANT TO LOOK AT IS THE BRICK THEN THAT WAS APPROVED OF ALTERING ITS APPEARANCE TO WHAT WE WANNA TALK ABOUT NOW.

SO IF WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

SO THESE ARE KIND OF THE BEFORE AND AFTER OF WHAT WE HAD IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS LAST YEAR.

AND WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR BASED OFF OF THE APPLICATION OF THE STAINING OF THE BRICK.

AND WHAT I WANT TO REALLY EMPHASIZE IS WHEN WE GO LATER IN THE SLIDES, IS THE FIELD APPLICATION THAT CONTRACTORS ARE OVERCOMING THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR SOME DISCUSSION ON.

SO WE CAN GO TO KIND OF THE, ONE OF THE LATER SLIDES, PLEASE, THAT HAS THE, UH, SHOWING IT INSTALLED IN THE FIELD.

'CAUSE SOME OF THESE SLIDES IN THE MIDDLE ARE THE DOCUMENTATION OF THE BRICK INSIDE THE FACADE OF THE PERCENTAGES FOR YOUR PLANNING AND ZONING REQUIREMENTS.

SO AS THE CONTRACTOR WAS STARTING TO INSTALL THE MOCK-UP FOR US TO REVIEW IN THE FIELD, SOME OF THE CONSTRAINTS THAT WE'RE HAVING IS THE BRICK OVER TIME AS WEATHERED AND AS DIFFERENT FLASHING OF COLORS.

IT'S NOT A CONSISTENT ONE COLORED BRICK.

THERE'S TOO MANY, UH, VARIATION WITHIN IT THAT WE'RE GETTING THE COLORS TO SATURATE DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SEEN AND WE'RE HAVING PROBLEMS ME MEETING WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO BE A STANDARD OF AN ACCEPTABLE PRODUCT TO SHOW THE OWNER AND THE CITY OF DUBLIN, UH, THE FINAL APPEARANCE.

SO WHAT WE ASKED WAS A MODIFICATION OF THE AMOUNT OF THE STAIN WE'RE APPLYING TO THE BRICK.

AND SO THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER IS WHAT WAS APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF ALTERING THE BRICK WITH A STAIN OF A SEMI-TRANSPARENT.

AND AS WE STARTED PUTTING IT ON THE, THE BRICK AND THE FACADE, WE JUST CANNOT MAKE, MAKE THAT CONSISTENCY ACROSS THE WHOLE ENTIRETY OF THE BUILDING.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE CAME TO TODAY OF ASKING THAT STAINING TO BE ALTERED A LITTLE BIT.

SO THAT'S KIND OF THE HISTORY OF WHERE WE'RE AT, WHAT WE ARE APPROVED FROM BEFORE, OF ALTERING THE BRICK EXISTING CONDITION TO A LIGHT STAIN, TO WE'RE ASKING FOR MORE OF AN OPAQUE STAIN AT THIS POINT.

SO THE, THE SLIDE, WHICH IS UP IN FRONT OF YOU, THE UPPER RIGHT IS KINDA SHOWING THE APPLICATION ON THE ACTUAL BUILDING, UH, RECENTLY, UH, INSTALLED.

AND YOU CAN SEE IT'S VERY PATCHY AND, AND SOMEWHAT THIN.

AND AGAIN, THAT'S THE LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY OR OPACITY, UH, THAT HAD BEEN, UH, APPROVED.

UH, THE PEN ZONES ARE, UH, FOND OF THE, UM, MODIFICATIONS TO A BUILDING RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, WHICH IS THE FORMER, UH, MELLOW MUSHROOM BUILDING, WHICH IS NOW THE FIRST WATCH.

[00:10:01]

AND THAT ACTUALLY HAS A PAINT APPLICATION, UH, APPLIED TO THAT, UH, UPPER PORTION OF THE BRICK.

AND, UH, THAT WAS AN OPTION WE HAD FIRST DISCUSSED, UH, WITH STAFF AS, UH, UH, FOR THAT TO BE CONSIDERED.

UH, WE WERE STEERED BACK TOWARDS LET'S KINDA KEEP WITH THE, UH, THE STAIN AS A MASONRY, UH, STAIN TO BE APPLIED.

UH, BUT OUR, WHAT WE'RE SEEKING IS ESSENTIALLY JUST SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE MORE OPAQUE, SO IT HAS A LITTLE MORE, UH, UNIFORMITY AS PART OF THE, UH, REVIEW.

I THINK, UM, ONE OF THE, UH, ADVISOR ARCHITECTS, MARK FORD ALSO LOOKED AT THIS AND I THINK HE ALSO, UH, IN THE REPORT, UH, SUPPORTED THIS DIRECTION OF POTENTIALLY, UH, GOING TO A DEEPER FINISH.

UM, I WANTED TO ALSO SHARE WITH YOU A PIECE OF THE, THE DIRECTION WE'RE HEADED ON THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS OVERALL CAMPUS FOR THE PEN ZONES.

UH, AND ONE OF THE COMMENTS THAT, UH, WAS RECEIVED IN THE LAST INFORMAL PRESENTATION THAT HAS DRIVEN A LOT OF OUR NEXT PRESENTATION FOR, UH, DECEMBER 7TH FOR, UH, THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF, UH, THE GALLERY RESIDENTS, UH, PROJECT WAS REALLY HOW DO WE CREATE A COHESIVE THREAD OF, UH, COMPARABLE PALLET OF, UH, FINISHES AND MATERIALS THROUGHOUT ALL OF THESE BUILDINGS THAT, UH, THE PEN ZONES HAVE PLANNED, UH, FOR THIS PROPERTY.

YOU KNOW, THE CHALLENGE IS SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING, WHETHER IT'S THE LAST NEW SALON OR THIS BUILDING, UH, THE GALLERY, UH, RESIDENCE AND THE FUTURE BUILDINGS, THEY'RE ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION.

UH, THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT IN THE EARLY 1980S.

UM, IT SERVED THEM WELL, BUT IT'S REALLY GOING THROUGH A COMPLETE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR, UH, TRANSFORMATION.

THE INTERIOR IS ABOUT 90%, UH, COMPLETE.

IT'S GONNA BE THEIR NEW OFFICE HEADQUARTERS, UH, AND TRAINING, UH, FACILITIES.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STRUCK US IN THE, UH, IN THE CONVERSATIONS WE WERE HAVING WITH YOU ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AGO ABOUT THE, THE GALLERY RESIDENCE WAS IN THE MATERIAL SELECTION OF THAT BUILDING AND THE FUTURE PHASES PAST THAT.

HOW DO WE CREATE ARCHITECTURE THAT MAYBE FEELS LIKE A COHESIVE CAMPUS AND ISN'T NECESSARILY THE EXACT SAME MATERIALS ON EVERY SINGLE BUILDING? SO WHEN WE TAKE THIS BUILDING, THE ORIGINAL BUILDING, UH, AND WE'RE TRYING TO TRANSFORM THAT AESTHETIC FROM, UH, A 1980S, UH, INCONSISTENT, UH, RED BRICK TO SOMETHING THAT BLENDS WITH A LOT OF THE NEW, UH, WHITE AND, AND REALLY BLONDE COLORED STONE THAT WE HAVE, UH, ON THE NEW SALON AND THE, UH, UPCOMING BUILDINGS, THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY DRIVING US TO TRY TO CREATE A LITTLE MORE, UH, CONSISTENCY THAN THE THE SORT OF THIN PATCHY, UH, YOU KNOW, WHITEWASH FINISH, UH, WHICH HAS BEEN APPROVED.

SO AGAIN, WHAT WE'RE SEEKING IS THE EXACT SAME MATERIAL.

IT'S THE EXACT SAME APPLICATION.

IT'S JUST REALLY A COUPLE MORE COATS OF IT, UH, TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE OPAQUE.

ULTIMATELY, OUR HOPE IS THAT THIS EFFORT ON THIS BUILDING HELPS IT REALLY COHESIVELY BE A PART OF THE MASTER PLAN FOR THE OVERALL, UH, DEVELOPMENT.

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

IS AX.

HELLO.

TURN THE TIME OVER TO YOU FOR OUR STAFF PRESENTATION.

PAINTED OR STAINED BRICK IS REVIEWED AS A SECONDARY MATERIAL AND THEREFORE ITS APPLICATION SHOULD BE LIMITED TO ACCENTS ON THE BUILDING UNLESS OTHERWISE APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

AND GOOD EVENING.

THIS IS A REQUEST FOR AN AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR MODIFICATIONS TO THE FINISHES OF EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS ON THE PEN ZONE BASE ONE OFFICE BUILDING IN THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT DEVELOPMENT IS GENERALLY A THREE STEP PROCESS WITH A FOUR STEP, UH, IF AMENDMENTS TO THE APPROVED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN ARE REQUESTED.

CONSIDERATIONS INCLUDE COMMUNITY PLAN AND CODE ALIGNMENT, AS WELL AS, UM, HOW THE PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS ARE INTEGRATED WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA.

PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS THE FINAL REVIEWING BODY FOR THIS APPLICATION.

THE 3.52 ACRE SITES HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW AND LOCATED NORTHWEST OF THE ROUNDABOUT AT VILLAGE PARKWAY AND BRIDGE PARK AVENUE IN A ZONE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT SAML CENTER NEIGHBORHOOD.

AFTER WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT STAFF REMAINS CONCERNED WITH THE PROPOSED OPAQUE BRICK STAIN.

UH, THE GENERAL CODE, UM, DEFINITION FOR MASONRY STATES THAT NATURAL OR NATURAL APPEARING STONE OR BRICK SHOULD BE MAINTAINED AND ANY NATURAL MASONRY IS REALLY A HALLMARK OF THE EXISTING BUILDING CHARACTER THAT WE SEE THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF DUBLIN.

THE PROPOSED OPAQUE STAIN BRICK IS ALSO INCONSISTENT WITH THE LAW AND ESTABLISHED DEVELOPMENT CHARACTER ACROSS DUBLIN, WHERE INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS AND SITES DO NOT COMPETE FOR ATTENTION, BUT ARE DESIGNED AND INTEGRATED WITH THE SURROUNDING CONTEXT.

IN THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT, BRICK IS A PRI PERMITTED PRIMARY BUILDING MATERIAL THAT SHOULD REMAIN IN ITS NATURAL STATE AS A HIGH QUALITY AND DURABLE MATERIAL.

[00:15:01]

AND IF THE EXISTING BRICK IS STAINED TO BE OPAQUE IN APPEARANCE, IMPORTANT ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES SUCH AS THE SOLDIER COURSE TREATMENT BELOW THE WINDOWS IS LOST ON THIS BUILDING.

ALL AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN CRITERIA IS EITHER MET, NOT MET OR NOT APPLICABLE.

AND WITH THAT PLANNING RECOMMENDS DISAPPROVAL OF THE AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU MS. MULLINAX LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION FOR QUESTIONS FOR EITHER STAFF OR THE APPLICANT.

WE'LL TAKE THESE IN TURN.

HOW ABOUT WE START WITH STAFF QUESTIONS? MR. CHUCK ? UM, I, THE, THE, THE QUESTION WE DIDN'T ADDRESS THOUGH IS THE OTHER, THE COLOR CHANGES, I GUESS.

I MEAN, MAYBE THIS IS MORE FOR APPLICANT, SORRY, BUT THERE'S OTHER, UM, MATERIAL CHANGES AS WELL AS PART OF THIS.

CORRECT? LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT THE BRICK, BUT THEY'RE TALKED ABOUT WARMING UP THE TRESPASS CHANGING AND SOME OF THE OTHER COLORS ARE CHANGING AS WELL.

IS THAT, SO THE MATERIALS ARE NOT CHANGING.

IT'S THE COLORS THAT ARE CHANGING OF THE STUCCO, UM, AS WELL AS THE BRICK AND THEN SOME OF THE FASCIA ON THE BUILDING.

SO THE T AND THE TRESPASS CHANGING AS WELL.

AND THAT, AND STAFF IS OKAY WITH THAT ALSO, RESPA IS NOT, UH, CHANGING AT ALL.

THE COLOR OF IT IS CORRECT, SO YES.

UM, STAFF ADDRESS THIS WITH THE APPLICANT AND PLANNER VIEW.

THE RENDERINGS JUST LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT THE MATERIAL ITSELF IS NOT CHANGING.

THE, THE COLOR OF THE WHITE ON THE BRICK ALSO GOT A LITTLE WARMER IN TONE BECAUSE THE, THE WHITENESS WAS TRYING TO BE, UM, SORT OF REDUCED IN, CALL IT HARSHNESS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, GIVING THAT MORE OF A, UH, YOU KNOW, A BLONDE COLORED WHITE INSTEAD OF STARK WHITE.

AND AS PART OF THE, AS PART OF THE COORDINATION WORKING WITH STAFF, UH, DURING THIS REQUEST, THEY DID ASK FOR A LITTLE BIT OF A VARIATION ACROSS THE FACADE BECAUSE WE, THEY THOUGHT WE HAD TOO MUCH WHITE ON TOP OF WHITE AND WE WERE LOSING SOME OF THE FEATURES OF THE BUILDING.

SO THEY ASKED US TO AMEND A COUPLE OF THE COLORS.

SO WHEN YOU SAW A SOFFIT TRANSITION TO A BRICK, THEY DIDN'T WANNA SEE THE WHITE ON THE WHITE.

SO THAT'S WHY THEY ASKED US TO REVISE THESE COLORS SLIGHTLY.

SO THOSE COLORS WERE DRIVEN, THOSE COLOR CHAIN WERE DRIVEN BY STAFF THEN? CORRECT.

WE, WE MATCHED TO THEIR SUGGESTIONS.

OKAY, PERFECT.

MR. SU BLACK.

I WAS GONNA ASK A SIMILAR, I WAS GONNA ASK A SIMILAR LINE OF QUESTIONS SPECIFICALLY ON THE WOOD TONE THAT WE SEE CHANGE FROM IMAGE TO IMAGE.

YEAH, THAT WAS, UH, AGAIN, THAT WAS JUST A, UH, THE SOFTWARE AND OUR QUALITY OF OUR RENDERINGS GOT SLIGHTLY IMPROVED, BUT THE ACTUAL PRODUCT AS WE WORKED WITH STAFF IS STILL THE SAME APPROVED ROMANTIC WALNUT FOR THE RESPA PANELS THAT WAS APPROVED BEFORE, WHICH IS CLOSER TO THE PREVIOUS, THE WOOD AND THE PREVIOUS, ACTUALLY WHAT IT IS, IS IT'S ACTUALLY CLOSER TO THE PROPOSED, THE REAL COLOR.

THE PREVIOUS RUNNING WAS SLIGHTLY A LITTLE, UH, I WOULD SAY A LITTLE ORANGER THAN WHAT IT REALLY IS.

BUT THESE, THE SAMPLES THAT WERE SHOWN PHYSICALLY WHEN WE WERE HERE IN FRONT OF YOU LAST IS WHAT REALLY WE'RE MATCHING.

BRICK BUILDING, IT'S REALLY JUST THE POSITION OF SOME OF THE, UH, THE, THE, UM, THE BRICK THEMSELVES.

GOT IT.

AND IT, UH, IT'S HARD TO DO THESE ON COMPUTER SCREENS WITH ALL THESE LIGHTS, BUT IT'S, IT'S SORT OF A MAHOGANY KIND OF FINISH.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR FOR THE APPLICANT? IT'S HARDER.

UM, IF IT'S, UH, IF YOU'RE PUTTING ON A THICKER COAT, DO YOU, UH, SEE IT WEATHERING DIFFERENTLY DOWN THE ROAD OR, UH, LESS MAINTENANCE TO THAT? UM, GREAT QUESTION.

MUCH LESS MAINTENANCE.

UM, THERE'S ALSO, INHERENTLY IN A BUILDING THAT'S ALMOST 50 YEARS OLD, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF CHALLENGE IN SORT OF WATER AND WEATHERPROOFING.

UH, AND THE MORE OF THIS MATERIAL THAT IS ON, YOU KNOW, THE BETTER THE COAT IS, UH, THAT IT HAS TO PROTECT IT.

UM, WHERE, WHERE WE ARE APPLYING THIS IN THE KIND OF THE BRICK AREAS, UM, BECAUSE IT'S A LITTLE MORE OPAQUE.

THE, THE SORT OF TOUCHUP WORK BECOMES A LOT MORE BLEND.

IT, IT BLENDS IN A LOT EASIER IF AND EVER IT REALLY NEEDS TO.

UH, THIS IS REALLY ONE OF THE KIND OF THE PREMIER, UH, MASONRY STAIN, UH, PRODUCTS IN THE MARKETPLACE.

AGAIN, THE, THE SORT OF ARCHITECT ADVISOR CONSULTANT NOTED THAT AS WELL.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CERTAINLY LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S VERY, VERY HIGH QUALITY AND, AND, UH, DURABLE AND LONG LASTING.

UM, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE ONE OTHER COMMENT IF I COULD.

THERE WAS A, A NOTE ABOUT, UH, THE ROBLOX SILLS AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BRICK WORK ON THE BUILDING.

UM, THERE'S SOME ROTATION OF BRICK IN, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, AROUND WINDOWS AND DOORS.

UH, BUT THIS IS NOT AN ORNAMENTAL BRICK BUILDING.

THERE'S NOT A LOT OF RELIEF AND CHANGE AND, YOU KNOW, AS YOU MIGHT SEE IN A HISTORIC

[00:20:01]

UM, WHEN THIS OPAQUE PRODUCT IS PUT ON, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STAIN APPLICATION AND A PAINT APPLICATION IS A PAINT ACTUALLY HAS A GREATER THICKNESS AND IT MASKS OVER ANY OF THE TEXTURE OF BRICK OR ANY OF THE RELIEF OF THE MORTAR JOINTS, OR IF THERE'S ANY MOVEMENT IN THE BRICK, MEANING THEY'RE PULLED OUT.

SO BY GOING TO A STAIN, IT ACTUALLY PENETRATES MUCH BETTER.

SO IT DOESN'T WEAR OFF LIKE PAINT WOULD PEEL, BUT WHAT IT ALSO DOES IS IT'S MUCH, MUCH THINNER AND IT ALLOWS YOU TO STILL READ THAT IT'S A BRICK FINISH.

BUT WHEN YOU PUT PAINT ON IT, WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU PUT SUCH A THICK COAT THAT YOU, YOU, YOU LEVEL OUT EVERYTHING AND IT FEELS MUCH MORE MONOLITHIC.

SO THE APPLICATION OF THE STAIN VERSUS A PAINT, UH, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD REALLY MAKE SURE IS CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD.

ON THAT SAME NOTE TOO, WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING THE OTHER BUILDING, THE OTHER BUILDING, WILL YOU THEN, WHEN YOU PUT ON THE BRICK, WILL YOU THEN GO BACK AND PAINT IT SO THAT IT IS COHESIVE OR, SO THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

SO ON THE, UM, WHAT WE'RE IN FOR IN A COUPLE WEEKS IS THE, UH, THE GALLERY THAT ACTUALLY HAS A STONE AND STONE PANELS VERY SIMILAR TO THE NEW, UM, SALON ON THE CORNER.

ON THE, THE NEXT PHASE, WHICH THERE'S TWO OF THESE, UM, OFFICE, UH, AND, AND RETAIL BUILDINGS THAT ARE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THE ONE.

WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS THAT THOSE ARE A BRICK THAT IS PAINT STAINED OR FINISHED, LIKE WHAT WE, UH, ARE PROPOSING TODAY.

SO AGAIN, RATHER THAN, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A NEW BUILDING, THAT CONSISTENCY WE THINK COULD, COULD REALLY BE IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT WOULD BE, UH, DIRECTLY, UH, ADJACENT QUESTION FOR STAFF, UH, WE BROUGHT UP THE FIRST WATCH BUILDING A COUPLE OF TIMES.

UH, SO JUDGING BASED OFF OF PHOTOS ALONE, WAS THAT A SECONDARY MATERIAL? UH, A PORTION OF THE BRICK THAT WAS TREATED AND A PORTION REMAINED THE SAME? WAS IT THE MINORITY OR THE MAJORITY OF THE BRICK? CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT PARTICULAR APPLICATION? YES, HAPPY TO.

UM, SO WITH THE FIRST WATCH BUILDING THE BRICK IS THE PRIMARY BUILDING MATERIAL WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE BUILDING, UM, AND THE BRICK ON THAT PORTION IS LEFT IN ITS NATURAL STATE WHERE THE SECONDARY PIECE OF THAT, UM, OF THAT MATERIAL IS THE PAINTED PORTION UP ON THE PARAPET.

AND LARGELY THAT, UM, WAS DONE BECAUSE THERE WERE ARCHITECTURAL MODIFICATIONS TO THAT PARAPET.

AND SO THE PAINTING OF THAT HELPS TO CONCEAL ANY, YOU KNOW, CHANGES WITHIN THAT.

UM, A PROPORTION OF THE BUILDING.

WAS THERE NEW BRICK ADDED AMONGST THE OLD BRICK ON THAT BUILDING, OR WAS IT JUST THE ARTICULATION OF THAT PARAPET? MOSTLY ARTICULATION, UM, AND REUSING, UM, EXISTING BRICK FROM THE BUILDING.

THAT THE IDEA IS TO WRITE ARCHITECTURALLY WITH OUR MATERIALS AND COLORS BRING COHESIVE COHESIVENESS ACROSS THE CAMPUS.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR FOR THE APPLICANT? MR. FISHMAN? FINE, I HAVE THOSE RECOMMENDED BECAUSE, BECAUSE OF THE USING A, A PAINT OR MAKING IT TOO WHITE OR? YEAH, SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DISAPPROVAL BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NOT ALIGNING WITH, UM, OUR POLICY FOR EITHER OPAQUE STAINED BRICK, UM, OR PAINTED FULLY PAINTED BRICK.

UM, THIS IS THE PRIMARY BUILDING MATERIAL ON THIS BUILDING AND IT'S BEING PROPOSED TO BE STAGED, UM, TO AN OPAQUE APPEARANCE.

SO IT'S REALLY JUST NOT ALIGNING WITH, UM, DUBLIN AND WHAT WE HAVE HISTORICALLY APPROVED THROUGHOUT DUBLIN.

WHEREAS WITH FIRST WATCH, IT WAS VERY LIMITED IN ITS APPLICATION, WHICH IS WHAT THE CODE, UM, ALLOWS FOR.

SO, SO YOU'D RATHER SEE THEM STAIN THE BRICK, I ASSUME, RIGHT? YES.

SO WITH THE MARCH APPLICATION EARLIER THIS YEAR, THE APPLICANT WAS APPROVED FOR A VERY, VERY LIGHT SEMI-TRANSPARENT STAIN, UM, WHICH IS NOT AS STARK OF A, UM, CHANGE TO THE BUILDING'S APPEARANCE.

SO STAFF WAS SUPPORTIVE OF THAT AT THAT TIME.

AND IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT MR. FISHMAN PARTICULAR STAIN COMPLIMENTARY TO THE UNDERSTANDING WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING THE OTHER APPLICATION THIS EVENING, BUT WOULD THAT BE COMPLIMENTARY MATERIALS FOR THAT COHESIVE DESIGN AND STAFF'S OPINION AMONGST THREE BUILDINGS? UM, SO I KNOW MOST ABOUT THE SALON BUILDING THAT'S IN EXISTENCE, UM, COMPARING THE EXISTING BUILDING TO THAT BUILDING, THE STONE ON THAT BUILDING IS NATURALLY WHITE IN ITS APPEARANCE.

SO IT'S MEETING THE MASONRY DEFINITION OF OUR CODE, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S WHITE IN ITS APPEARANCE, BUT DOESN'T HAVE PAINTED WHITE BRICK ON THAT BUILDING.

SO WE FEEL THAT THIS APPLICATION IS DEVIATING EVEN THOUGH WE CAN CERTAINLY APPRECIATE

[00:25:01]

THEY ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE BUILDINGS.

THANK YOU, MS. MULLINAX, ANY FINAL QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION FOR EITHER STAFF OR FOR THE APPLICANT? THANK YOU GENTLEMEN.

MR. FISHMAN, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY ONE THING YOU SAID FROM STAIN TO PAINT, WE'RE WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE, WE'RE STAYING WITH STAIN.

WE'RE JUST SAYING MORE OPAQUE.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION NOW, UH, ACTUALLY I CAUGHT MYSELF BEFORE WE MOVED ON.

IS THERE ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC WHO, UH, WOULD LIKE TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE? HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY? SEEING NONE.

NOW COMMISSION LOOKING TO YOU FOR DISCUSSION.

MR. CHINOOK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START FOR US THIS EVENING? SURE.

UM, I, I THINK I SAID THIS LAST TIME YOU GUYS CAME.

I APPRECIATE YOU REHABBING THIS BUILDING.

I MEAN, IT WOULD PROBABLY WOULD'VE BEEN A, MAYBE AN EASIER CHOICE TO DEMO IT AND START OVER.

SO I THINK GET A LOT OF CREDIT FOR TAKING A, A BUILDING AND TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST OF THE SITUATION.

I APPRE I RECOGNIZE WHAT STAFF'S CONCERNS, BUT I I'M IN FAVOR OF THE CHANGE.

AND HONESTLY, I THINK IT FITS BETTER WITH THE OVERALL DESIGN OF THE BUILDING.

APACHE LOOK TO ME HEARKENS BACK DECADES FURTHER, BUT BEFORE THIS BUILD, I MEAN AFTER, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THIS BUILDING WAS EVEN BUILT.

SO I THINK IT FITS WITHIN THE STYLE OF THE BUILDING MUCH BETTER.

UM, AND AGAIN, I I, AND I RECOGNIZE IT AS A, AS A PRIMARY MATERIAL, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT A DOMINANT MATERIAL ON THE, ON THE BUILDING.

SO, UM, I GUESS SHORT, SHORT ANSWER IS I'M, I'M, I'M GREAT WITH IT.

I THINK IT, IT, IT LOOKS NICE AND AGAIN, I THINK I SAID THIS LAST TIME AS WELL, YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB.

UM, WITH THE OVERALL DESIGN AND REHAB IN THE BUILDING AND THE EXTERIOR MS. HARDER, I AM IN FAVOR OF IT.

UM, DUE TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE TONING IT DOWN A BIT, IT'S NOT GONNA BE THAT STARK STARK, UM, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF YOUR, UM, OTHER BUILDINGS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, IT, THEY ARE STARK.

AND, UH, AND SO I LIKE THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE KIND OF TONING THIS ONE DOWN, MAKING IT INTO, UM, THE OTHER, UH, UH, BUILDINGS COHESIVENESS.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TOO, AND WE'LL BE WATCHING FOR THAT AS WELL TOO.

THANK YOU, MS. HARDER, MR. AK.

UM, SO UNFORTUNATELY I'M GONNA, UH, GO THE OPPOSITE DI DIRECTION ON THIS.

AGAIN, I SAME SORT OF COMMENTARY AS MR. CHINOOK.

KUDOS ON, ON, UH, PUTTING SOME LOVE INTO THIS BUILDING.

UM, I, I HAPPEN TO ALWAYS THINK THAT NOT ALWAYS FUNDAMENTALLY MOST TIMES COVERING UP BRICK IS VERY UNFORTUNATE, RIGHT? UH, IT STARTS TO TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT THE BRICK IS.

IT TALK STARTS TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT THAT, THAT IT IS, RIGHT? AND SO FUNDAMENTALLY HERE, UH, FROM THE DAIS, WE WANT HIGH QUALITY PRODUCTS.

UM, WE CAN, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, QUIBBLE OVER WHETHER IT'S A STAIN OR A PAINT, BUT ULTIMATELY SORT OF COLORING THE ENTIRETY OF THE THING, UH, INCLUDING THE GROUT STARTS TO, STARTS TO DOWNPLAY, STARTS TO COVER, COVER IT, AND MAKE IT A MONOLITH IN, IN A VERY RE REAL, MEANINGFUL WAY.

I WAS FOND OF THE WHITEWASHING AS, RIGHT, THAT'S A COMMON VERNACULAR AROUND BRICK THAT HELPS TO KEEP THE TEXTURE OF THE BRICK ACTIVE AND, UH, A CRITICAL ELEMENT OF, OF THE MATERIAL ITSELF.

SO YOU'RE ALWAYS REALIZING THAT RICH WARMTH, QUALITY OF THE BRICK.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, UM, FOR THAT REASON, I, I'M NOT IN SUPPORT HERE.

THANK YOU, MR. AK.

MR. FISHMAN.

UH, I HATE TO SAY THIS, I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT IMPORTANT.

I'M KIND OF IN BETWEEN.

UM, I, I, I, I THINK YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.

I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE BUILDING MORE ATTRACTIVE AND, AND, UM, UM, MY CONCERN WHEN I LOOKED AT IT IS THAT YOU'RE GETTING RID OF THE MORTAR LINES WHEN, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PUT ENOUGH OPAQUE STAIN ON THAT, THAT IT MAKES IT A PURE WHITE RATHER THAN, UM, UM, UH, A TRANSPARENT STAIN.

UH, I'M KIND OF IN BETWEEN.

I, I THINK THAT, UM, IT'S TASTE, YOU KNOW, WHAT PEOPLE LIKE, UH, I, I THINK I ALWAYS TRY TO AGREE WITH THE STAFF THOUGH.

AND, AND I ALSO AGREE WITH MR. SIMILAC.

I THINK THAT, UH, THERE IS SOME BEAUTY IN THE TEXTURE AND, AND, AND HAVING THE MORTAR LINES AND HAVING IT LOOK LIKE BRICK, UH, AND IT'S REAL POPULAR NOW.

I DROVE AROUND, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE PAINTING THEIR HOUSES WHITE, YOU KNOW, BRICK AND I MEAN, IT'S REAL.

AND, UM, IT, TO ME, IT'LL BE 20 YEARS FROM NOW, PEOPLE SAY, OH MAN, WE GOTTA TRY TO SAND BLAST THIS BRICK BECAUSE IT, IT, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS BAD.

EVERYTHING'S WHITE.

YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW HOW THAT GOES EVERY 10 YEARS.

UM, UM, UH, YOU'RE OUTTA STYLE.

SO I'M KIND OF, I, I, I PERSONALLY, UM,

[00:30:01]

I THINK YOU SHOULD GET TO DO WHAT YOU WANNA DO, BUT I THINK THAT I, I DON'T THINK SOMEBODY'S GONNA SAY, OH, THEY ROCKED THE BUILDING.

UM, I, I THINK THAT I HAVE TO AGREE WITH STAFF.

IF, IF WE HAVE A CHOICE, UH, THE LESS COLOR YOU PUT ON IT, THE BETTER IF, IF, BUT I AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK UPDATING IT IS IMPORTANT.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING, I'M KIND OF IN BETWEEN.

I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO UPDATE THE BUILDING, UH, YOUR ARCHITECTS, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, STAFF HAS A GOOD POINT.

UH, THEY DON'T WANT A STARK WHITE BUILDING SITTING THERE, YOU KNOW? AND SO, UH, I, I'M, I'M IN BETWEEN , MR. CLAC, I'M USUALLY NOT, BUT I, I AM NOW, UM, FORGIVE ME, I, I MISSED A NOTE.

KIND OF A CRITICAL ELEMENT.

I, I'M JUST GONNA ARTICULATE IT RELATIVE TO MY STANCE.

THE, AND, AND I THINK THIS IS PART OF THIS COULD BE THE APPLICATION PROCESS.

FUNDAMENTALLY, THE EXAMPLES YOU SHOW ARE SPRAYED APPLICATIONS, WHICH WHITEWASHING HISTORICALLY ISN'T NECESSARILY A SPRAYED APP APPLICATION.

IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A SORT OF A WIPE ON AND WIPE OFF APPLICATION WITH A WATERED DOWN, UM, WATERED DOWN SOLUTION.

I THINK PART OF THAT IS IF WE GET A WHITEWASHED, HISTORICALLY VERNACULAR WHITEWASHED, UH, END STATE, THAT I THINK IS, IS WHAT I'M FOND OF, THIS, THE THINLY SPRAYED VERSION THAT IS KIND OF ACTING LIKE A WHITEWASH, BUT ISN'T ACTUALLY THE, ISN'T ACTUALLY THE RENDERING WE SAW.

I THINK THAT'S, UM, THAT'S AN UNFORTUNATE END STATE FOR ALL THIS, MR. IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

MR. ZU, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE MORTAR JOINTS AND THE TEXTURE OF THE BRICK? WELL, I, I DO THINK THE, THE WHITEWASHING, RIGHT, THE, UM, THE VARIED WHITEWASHING DOES A GREAT DEAL FOR BRICK AND, AND THE TEXTURE, THE TEXTURE OF THE BRICKS JUMPS OFF AT YOU.

IT DOESN'T GET, UH, WASHED INTO, UM, PAINTED INTO A MONOLITHIC ELEMENT, IS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO.

I AGREE.

UH, WELL, I WILL, UM, CONCLUDE OUR COMMISSION DISCUSSION.

UM, I AGREE WITH MR. LAC AND MR. FISHMAN, BUT I'M ALSO GONNA ADD SOME, SOME TEXTURE, NO PUN INTENDED.

UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT A BUILDING AND YOU BROUGHT UP THE FIRST WATCH, AND WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE CONSIDER CONSIDERATE OF THE NEXT APPLICATION.

SO TODAY, YOU KNOW, YESTERDAY IT WAS FIRST WATCH, HEY, WE HAVE THIS PARAPET, HEY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REUSE SOME BRICK.

THE COLOR'S NOT GONNA BE EXACT.

IT'S GONNA LOOK A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

SO WE'D LIKE TO PAINT A LITTLE BIT AS A SECONDARY MATERIAL, AND THEN THE NEXT APPLICATION COMES FORWARD, AND IT'S ALL OF OUR SECONDARY MATERIAL.

AND SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT COULD THE NEXT ONE BE? AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I'M NOT SUPPORTIVE.

THE OTHER IS, WE ALREADY HAVE A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF THIS BUILDING THAT'S STUCCO, THAT KIND OF IS THAT BLANCHED BLONDE, UM, MATERIAL THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT HAS, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE MUCH ARTICULATION.

AND THE MORE OPACITY TO THE COVERING ON THE BRICK FADES, ITS ARTICULATION AND TEXTURE AND THE FEEL, THE LOOK AND THE FEEL THAT WE WANT FOR THIS AREA, WHICH IS WHY BRICK IS A PERMITTED MATERIAL.

WE, WE LOSE SOME OF THAT.

AND SO I APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT COHESIVENESS WITHIN A COMMUNITY, BUT WE DON'T HAVE AN APPROVED, YOU KNOW, BUILT BUILDING YET.

THAT'LL BE, WHEN WE CONSIDER THAT NEXT APPLICATION, THAT'LL BE OUR CONSIDERATIONS FOR THAT NEXT APPLICATION WE'RE PLANNING, RIGHT? AND SO WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING TOWARD THE FUTURE, UH, BUT WITH THE CONSIDERATIONS OF THE OPACITY, THE TAKING AWAY OF THE TEXTURE.

AND, UH, I APPRECIATE WHAT STAFF DID WITH THE, HEY, CAN WE, YOU KNOW, THE JUXTAPOSITION OF THE WARM WHITE VERSUS THE COOLER WHITE.

CAN WE MAKE IT LOOK NOT SO BLANCHED? I APPRECIATE THAT THAT WAS AN ATTEMPT, BUT I STILL SIDE WITH STAFF IN THEIR RECOMMENDATION TO DISAPPROVE THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

I LOOK INTO THE APPLICANT BEFORE WE MAKE A VOTE.

DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE COMMISSION? THE, THE, THE ONE COMMENT THAT I THINK CAME UP IS ABOUT THE, THE SORT OF MASKING OF TEXTURE BASED ON THE APPLICATION OF THE, THE PRODUCT.

AND I GUESS THE, THE ONLY THING I CAN REALLY SAY IS I CAN REASSURE YOU THAT THE, THE APPEARANCE OF BRICK, THE TEXTURE OF BRICK, THE VISIBILITY OF DISTINCT

[00:35:01]

BRICK UNITS AND MORTAR JOINING AND PATTERNING, ALTHOUGH THERE'S VERY, VERY LITTLE PATTERN ON THE BUILDING, WILL STILL BE VERY VISIBLE BECAUSE IT'S A STAINED APPLICATION, NOT A PAINT.

I, IF YOU ZOOMED IN OR WENT OVER AND SAW LIKE WHAT THEY DID ON FIRST WATCH, THAT'S A PAINT APPLICATION.

SO IT'S, IT'S LIKE PUTTING TOOTHPASTE ON THE BUILDING AND IT JUST KIND OF FLATTENS IT ALL OUT.

IN OUR CASE, YOU WOULD STILL HAVE THAT VERY APPROACHABLE, UH, TEXTURE.

BUT I GUESS WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE REALLY STRIVING FOR IS THE TIDINESS OF A MORE UNIFORMED FINISH.

I THINK IN A SORT OF A, A HISTORIC APPLICATION OR A STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE THAT IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY WHITEWASHED BRICK, I'D ABSOLUTELY AGREE, BUT I THINK THIS IS A 1980S AT THE TIME, TRYING TO BE A, A CERTAIN STYLE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO BLEND INTO SOME FAIRLY CONTEMPORARY BUILDINGS THAT ARE THERE RIGHT NOW.

AND AS WE KNOW OUR PLAN FOR THE NEAR FUTURE.

SO TH THIS KIND OF BRIDGING OF NEW AND OLD IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS EFFORT.

UM, BUT AGAIN, THE, THE AWARENESS OF THE MATERIAL THAT IT IS, I THINK WILL STILL BE VERY, VERY CLEAR.

IT'S REALLY JUST THE, THE TIDINESS OF THE CONSISTENCY, UH, OF THAT MATERIAL.

SO I HEARD TWO AND A HALF VOTES, SO MAYBE THAT MIGHT HAVE SKEWED THE HALF TO A FULL.

I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUICK FOLLOW UP TO THAT TOO.

SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE, I KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRECEDENT.

WE DON'T WANNA START THIS WHOLE IDEA OF GOING TO PAINTED BRICK, BUT AGAIN, AS YOU SAID, YOU'VE TRIED TO DO THIS METHOD.

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THIS STAIN, YOU KNOW, THE PARTIALLY TRANSPARENT STAIN, RIGHT? AND IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT WORKING, WHICH IS THE REASON WHY YOU'RE DOING THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE, RIGHT? IT LOOKS VERY PATCHY.

AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WITH THIS PARTICULAR BRICK, IT'S NOT VERY SUCCESSFUL.

AND I AGREE WITH YOU, AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE GOING TO THIS, CORRECT? YEAH.

IT'S NOT, WELL WE, AND WE EVEN CONSIDERED JUST LEAVE IT BRICK, DON'T DO ANYTHING.

AND THEN IT REALLY, IT, IT STANDS OUT.

SO UNIQUELY DIFFERENT THAN EVERYTHING.

THAT'S KIND OF THE THEME OF THE DEVELOPMENT.

AND THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE STANDARDS IS, YOU KNOW, TO NOT HAVE SOMETHING WHICH IS STARKLY DIFFERENT TO ITS CONTEXT.

THE, THE, THE OTHER THING.

AND I'LL, IF, IF, IF I COULD INTERRUPT.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE PAST THE DISCUSSION, THE, THE DEBATE.

I UNDERSTAND.

SO, UH, WE DO HAVE DELIBERATION TO CONCLUDE.

UH, I DO WANNA POINT OUT THAT MR. SOAK DID BRING, BRING UP ALSO THE APPLICATION.

SO THE APPLICATION IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN YOUR TRADITIONAL WHITEWASH VERSUS THE SPRAY.

AND SO SOMETHING TO NOTE FROM MR. SOAKS EARLIER COMMENTS.

UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER FINAL QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO A VOTE? ALRIGHT, UH, IS THERE ANY, UH, DESIRE TO TABLE THE APPLICATION OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROCEED WITH VOTE THIS EVENING? NO.

UNDERSTOOD.

I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION, UH, TO APPROVE A FINAL, AN AMENDED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN WITH A SINGLE CONDITION.

SO MOVED.

THANK YOU, MRS. BLACK.

DO I HAVE SECOND? SECOND.

THANK YOU, MS. HARDER.

I, I ASSUME WE SETTLED ON THIS WOULD BE THE .

NO.

OH, THEY'RE ASKING YOU.

SO WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE VOTING FOR ON RIGHT NOW IS AN APPROVAL OF THE OPAQUE STAIN.

NO, MR. AK NO, THIS CALL, NO GENTLEMEN, WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE PENZONE BUSINESS BEING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE CERTAIN, CERTAINLY HOPE THAT YOU APPRECIATE OUR LOOKING OUT FOR NOT JUST THE INDIVIDUAL PARCEL, BUT THE, THE REST OF THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY AS WELL.

CERTAINLY WELCOME YOU BACK NEXT MONTH WHEN WE LOOK AT OTHER DEVELOPMENTS.

MOVING ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM FOR TONIGHT'S AGENDA, WE HAVE CASE 23 DASH 0 79 ADMC, HISTORIC DISTRICT CODE UPDATE.

ALRIGHT,

[Case #23-097ADMC]

CAN WE PLEASE PUT UP THE SLIDES SHOWING THE SITE LOCATION AND REVIEW PROCESS? STAGE CASE 23 DASH 0 79 IS A REQUEST FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL, THE CITY COUNCIL FOR PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ZONING CODE.

MS. ROUSH, I WILL WELCOME YOU THIS EVENING AND TURN TIME OVER TO YOU FOR A PRESENTATION THIS EVENING.

GREAT, THANK YOU.

GOOD EVENING.

UM, SO AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS IS, UM, AMENDMENTS TO OUR CODE AND GUIDELINES RELATED TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO I THOUGHT I WOULD GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW JUST TO REMIND OURSELVES OF WHERE WE'VE BEEN, UM, AS YOU ALL DEAL WITH, UM, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CODE OR YOU'VE SEEN THOSE VARIOUS ITERATIONS OVER TIME, UM, AND SORT OF HOW WE GOT TO THE AMENDMENTS THAT ARE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.

SO I'LL, I'LL

[00:40:01]

BE BRIEF ON THAT, BUT, UM, PRIOR TO 2012, UM, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WAS GOVERNED BY ITS OWN SET OF, UM, ZONING AND GUIDELINE RE UM, REGULATIONS, UM, IN 20, IN 2012.

THEN OBVIOUSLY WE WENT TO THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT AND INCORPORATED THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS PART OF THAT.

SO IT WAS INTEGRATED WITHIN THE CODE, UM, AS, AS A PIECE OF THAT THAT REALLY PERMITTED BUILDING TYPES, UM, AND USES AND INTENSITY OF DEVELOPMENT THAT DIDN'T REALLY ALIGN WITH, UM, THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.

SO THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS RAISED FOLLOWING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BRIDGE STREET DISTRICT, PARTICULARLY RELATED TO HOW THAT WAS APPLIED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND WE THEN MADE SOME AMENDMENTS IN 2017, UM, BASED ON THIS HISTORIC AND CULTURAL ASSESSMENT.

UM, SO THAT WAS REALLY LOOKING AT, UM, AN INVENTORY CITYWIDE OF ALL OF OUR DETAILED INVENTORY OF HISTORIC AND CULTURAL ASSETS THROUGHOUT THE CITY, AND THEN IDENTIFYING THOSE AS, UM, EITHER CONTRIBUTING OR NOT CONTRIBUTING, WHICH WILL PLAY INTO OUR CONVERSATION TODAY.

UM, SO THAT WAS A BIG PIECE OF THAT, WHICH THEN, AS I MENTIONED, THEN HELPED INFORM, UM, SOME AMENDMENTS IN 2017, UM, WITH THE CREATION OF A HISTORIC SOUTH DISTRICT WITHIN THE BRIDGE STREET CODE, WHICH THEN BE, BECAUSE ON THAT SOUTH HIGH STREET, UM, PORTION OF THE CODE, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE TRANSITIONING INTO MORE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS.

SO HOW DO WE GO FROM THAT MORE INTENSE HISTORIC CORE DOWN TO RESIDENTIAL? SO WE CREATED A NEW DISTRICT CALLED HISTORIC SOUTH.

SO THAT IS LOOKING AT REDUCED BUILDING HEIGHTS AND THEN ALSO TRYING TO ADDRESS SOME CONCERNS OF COUNCIL AND RESIDENTS ALONG THE WAY, UM, ABOUT DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS THAT WE WERE SEEING AT THE TIME.

UM, THERE CONTINUED TO BE CONCERNS ABOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BEING WITHIN THE BRIDGE STREET CODE, AND WE CREATED A TASK FORCE TO HELP UNDERSTAND, UM, THAT AND WHAT THAT COULD LOOK LIKE, AS WELL AS THEN WHAT MODIFICATIONS NEEDED TO BE, UM, MADE RELATED TO OUR, UM, HISTORIC DISTRICT AREA PLAN AND HOW WE'RE MANAGING THE DISTRICT, WHICH THEN ULTIMATELY CULMINATED IN 2021, UM, WHICH WAS US REMOVING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT FROM THE BRIDGE STREET CODE, CREATING, GOING, SORT OF GOING BACK TO WHERE WE WERE PRE 2012 WITH HAVING OUR OWN CODE AND GUIDELINES SPECIFIC TO THE DISTRICT THAT REALLY FOCUSED ON THE PRESERVATION, UM, OF HISTORIC RESOURCES FIRST, BUT OBVIOUSLY ALLOWING FOR INFILL AND REDEVELOPMENT THAT FITS MORE, UM, COHESIVELY WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE CURRENTLY ARE, UM, WITH, WITH THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES.

UM, AGAIN, IN TERMS OF THE BACKGROUND OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO WE HAVE OUR LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS OR ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOUNDARY WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS A NATIONAL REGISTERED DISTRICT, WHICH IS A SOUTH HIGH, UM, AREA.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS ALL HELPS TELL THE STORY OF HOW WE, HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE, UM, IN TERMS OF THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT, BUT REALLY LOOKING AT HAVING THOSE PRESERVATION TOOLS, UM, SPECIFIC TO THE DISTRICT.

UM, AND THEN HAVING OUR LOCAL DISTRICT, WHICH IDENTIFIES THEN APPENDIX F AND APPENDIX G, WHICH ARE MAPS IN THE CODE THAT CORRESPOND WITH THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES THAT TALK ABOUT APPENDIX F IS ALL THE PROP, THE BOUNDARIES OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND APPENDIX G ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE UNDER THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD'S PURVIEW, BUT ARE OUTSIDE THE DISTRICT.

SO SOME ADDITIONAL HISTORIC RESOURCES OUTSIDE THAT REQUIRE THEIR, THEIR REVIEW.

UM, AND THEN WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THEN AGAIN ON A NUMBER OF THE APPENDIX G PROPERTIES, WE HAVE PROPERTIES THAT ARE INDIVIDUALLY LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER, UM, AS WELL AS THEN THAT NATIONAL REGISTERED DISTRICT.

SO THAT, UM, IS IMPORTANT TO HOW WE'VE APPLIED THIS AMENDMENT GOING FORWARD.

SO IN TERMS OF THE CODE, UM, JUST TO SHARE HOW, HOW THAT'S USED, THOSE ARE USED IN TANDEM WITH THE GUIDELINES.

SO THE CODE OBVIOUSLY ARE THE VERY OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, USES SITE DEVELOPMENT REQUIREMENTS, SIGNS REVIEW PROCESS, UM, AND THOSE APPLY TO ALL THE PROPERTIES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THOSE IDENTIFIED ON APPENDIX G.

UM, IN TERMS OF DEMOLITION CRITERIA, WHICH IS A LARGE FOCUS OF THE AMENDMENT THAT'S BEFORE YOU, UM, UNDER THE CURRENT CODE, IF YOU'RE BUILDING IS CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTING, THEN YOU HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP.

AND THE REQUEST THAT GOES TO THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD IS VERY ONEROUS TO OVERCOME, UM, AND PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION.

THERE IS THEN ALSO NON-CONTRIBUTING, WHICH THEN THE BURDEN OF PROOF ESSENTIALLY FOR REQUESTING DEMOLITION IS LESS.

YOU ONLY HAVE TO MEET ONE OF THREE CRITERIA.

UM, SO THAT BECAME PART OF A DISCUSSION OF WHAT BUILDINGS ARE CURRENTLY IDENTIFIED AS CONTRIBUTING NON-CONTRIBUTING, AND HOW ARE WE APPLYING THE DEMOLITION CRITERIA AND SHOULD THOSE REALLY BE APPLIED, UM, AS PREVIOUSLY OUTLINED.

UM, THE GUIDELINES THEN PLAY SORT OF A SUPPLEMENTAL PIECE TO THE CODE.

THEY'RE THE MORE DISCRETIONARY,

[00:45:02]

UM, IN NATURE, UM, GUIDELINES, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, THAT REALLY HELP PROTECT THE CHARACTER.

SO NOT EVERY PROPERTY STRUCTURE WITHIN THE DISTRICT IS TREATED THE SAME JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A VERY ECLECTIC DISTRICT, UM, WANTING REALLY TO LOOKING AT HOW WE'RE PRESERVING THE CHARACTER, BUT ALSO THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONTEXT AS WELL.

THOSE ARE REALLY KEY FACTORS.

SO THE GOAL OVERALL IS FOR ORIGINAL AND HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT WERE REALLY IN A REHABILITATION AND PRESERVATION FOCUS, WHEREAS THE NEW BUILDINGS AND ADDITIONS WERE LOOKING FOR COMPATIBILITY AND APPROPRIATENESS.

UM, SO THE GUIDELINES HELP SUPPLEMENT THE CODE FROM THAT MORE CONTEXTUAL PIECE VERSUS THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS.

SO THE AMENDMENT BEFORE YOU TODAY, UM, CAME OUT OF SOME CONVERSATIONS, UM, THAT WE'VE HAD AGAIN SINCE WE'VE MADE MODIFICATIONS TO THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES OVER THE YEARS.

UM, BUT REALLY DRIVEN BY CITY COUNCIL AND SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO LOOK AT HOW DEMOLITION REQUESTS SPECIFICALLY ARE ADDRESSED, UM, AND EVALUATING WHICH PROPERTIES ARE TRULY HISTORIC IN NATURE WITHIN THE DISTRICT AND HOW THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES ARE APPLIED RELATED TO DEMOLITION.

UM, THIS HAS SPURRED THEN ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW WE'RE APPLYING THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES OVERALL, WHICH IS A FOCUS OF A PHASE TWO CONVERSATION.

UM, SO TONIGHT WHAT'S BEFORE YOU IS REALLY FOCUSED ON HOW, HOW WE'RE HANDLING DEMOLITION REQUESTS AND HOW THE REVIEW CRITERIA, UM, WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ARE BEING APPLIED AND WHAT BUILDINGS THEY'RE BEING APPLIED TO.

UM, SO THE AMENDMENTS BEFORE YOU ARE THEN TO REVISE THE LANGUAGE IN THE CODE, PARTICULAR TO THE DEMOLITION SECTION WHERE IT WAS PREVIOUSLY CALLED CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING TO THEN A LANDMARK AND A BACKGROUND BUILDING.

AGAIN, THE NOMENCLATURE OF CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING HAS CREATED SOME CONCERNS AND SOME, UM, OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY, UM, AND HAVE A MORE, UM, SPECIFIC WAY WE'RE APPLYING, WE'RE APPLYING THAT.

SO THAT HAS RESULTED IN A NUMBER OF BUILDINGS THAT MAYBE PREVIOUSLY WERE CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTING ARE NOW CONSIDERED LANDMARK.

BUT WE'VE REALLY TRIED TO HONE IN ON, AND I HAVE A, THE NEXT SLIDE HERE TALKS ABOUT OUR METHODOLOGY FOR HOW WE GOT THERE, BUT REALLY HONING IN ON WHAT ARE THESE TRULY HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD NOT BE APPLYING DEMOLITION CRITERIA TO.

BUILDINGS THAT ARE NOT AS HISTORIC IN NATURE, DON'T HAVE THE CHARACTER THAT WE REALLY FEEL LIKE NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED.

THERE'S STILL MERIT TO THEM BECAUSE THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHARACTER.

BUT HOW IS ARB LOOKING AT THOSE AND APPLYING THE CRITERIA? UM, SO WITH THIS AMENDMENT, THERE ARE STRUCTURES, UM, THAT AGAIN, ANYONE WANTING TO DEMOLISH SOMETHING HAS TO GO TO THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD.

SO IT'S REALLY THE STANDARD OF REVIEW.

SO THERE WOULD BE MORE STRUCTURES THAT ARE ELIGIBLE TO NOT HAVE TO MEET THAT HIGHER BURDEN, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO GO TO ARB, UM, AND STILL PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION.

SO IN ORDER TO DO THAT, UM, WE'VE MADE MODIFICATIONS TO THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES AND THEIR SUPPORTING MATERIALS, UH, TO GET THERE.

AND THEN, UM, AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED, PHASE TWO IS REALLY LOOKING AT, UM, WE'VE TALKED WITH ARB ALSO ABOUT ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVALS AND HOW TO HELP EXPEDITE THE REVIEW PROCESS.

'CAUSE THAT'S ALSO BEEN SOMETHING RAISED, UM, TO THEM.

AND THEN LOOKING AT OUR OUTBUILDINGS AND SOME OF THESE HISTORIC OBJECTS AND HOW TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, UM, TAKING CARE TO PRESERVE THOSE AS WELL.

SO IN ORDER TO GET TO THIS DESIGNATION OF THE LANDMARK VERSUS BACKGROUND, WE LOOKED AT AND IDENTIFIED.

SO THE DARKER AERIAL PART IS THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD DISTRICT.

UM, AND AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE LOWER PORTION, THAT RED RECTANGLE THAT IS THAT SOUTH HIGH STREET NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT.

SO THAT'S THE NATIONAL, UM, OR THAT, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER BOUNDARY, UM, THAT WAS ESTABLISHED, UM, MANY YEARS AGO.

SO WE LOOKED AT ALL THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE WITHIN THAT RED BOUNDARY THAT IN THIS GRAPHIC ARE IDENTIFIED AS GREEN.

SO THOSE NATIONAL REGISTERED DISTRICT PROPERTIES, UM, THAT THOSE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED LANDMARK UNLESS THEY WERE BUILT IN THE MOST RECENT HISTORY.

SO YOU'LL SEE LIKE GRAYED OUT AT THE CORNER IS, UM, TOWN CENTER ONE, WHICH HAS STARBUCKS AND JENNY'S OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT HISTORIC, BUT THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS WITHIN THAT BOUNDARY WOULD BE CONSIDERED LANDMARK.

WE THEN ALSO IDENTIFIED THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN ORANGE, WHICH ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE INDIVIDUALLY LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER THAT THOSE ALSO SHOULD BE, UM, HAVE THAT HIGHER BURDEN OF REVIEW FOR DEMOLITION.

UM, AND THEN WE TOOK THE TIME PERIOD FOR BOTH THE GREEN AND THE ORANGE BUILDINGS.

WHERE ELSE IN THE, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DOES THAT TIMEFRAME FALL? SO 9 18, 20 TO 1930.

UM, AND THAT THOSE SHOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED, UM, AS PART OF A LANDMARK AS AS A LANDMARK BUILDING, AS WELL AS THEN A COUPLE PROPERTIES THAT WERE MAYBE OUTSIDE

[00:50:01]

THAT TIMEFRAME BUT HAD FROM A ARCHITECTURAL OR CONTEXTUAL CONTEXT NEEDED TO, OR WE FELT SHOULD BE INCLUDED.

SO LIKE AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE, UM, WHERE FOX AND THE SNOW IS.

SO THAT'S OUTSIDE THAT TIME PERIOD, BUT THAT BUILDING IS SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF ITS ARCHITECTURAL STYLE AND WE WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO BE LOST.

SO, SO REALLY THE GREEN, ORANGE BLUE ARE WHAT IS NOW CONSIDERED LANDMARK, AND ANYTHING THAT IS GRAY WOULD THEN BE CONSIDERED A BACKGROUND BUILDING.

SO LANDMARK HAS THE HIGHER BURDEN BACKGROUND DOES NOT.

SO AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED, THIS HAS GONE THROUGH SOME SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSIONS WITH COUNCIL GOING BACK ALL THE WAY TO MARCH OF 22, WHERE THIS TOPIC WAS FIRST RAISED, UM, OR AT LEAST CONCERNS ABOUT HOW WE'RE, UM, ADDRESSING HIS TRULY HISTORIC BUILDINGS WITHIN AND PROPERTIES WITHIN THE DISTRICT.

SO WE'VE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL COUNCIL ITERATIONS IN 2022, UM, WITH THEN BRINGING THIS BACK FORWARD IN MAY OF THIS YEAR TO COUNCIL IN A WORK SESSION SHARING THIS METHODOLOGY, THESE RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO THEY'VE SEEN THIS, THEY'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH WHERE STAFF, UM, IS HEADED AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'VE MADE.

UM, FOR THAT, WE THEN HAD A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING, UH, WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT TO TALK THROUGH THIS, UM, AS WELL AS THEN TOOK THIS TO ARB TO GIVE THEM AN UPDATE IN MAY.

UM, AND THEN MOST RECENTLY WE THEN HAD, UM, THIS REVIEWED AT THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD AT THEIR SEPTEMBER MEETING, AND THEY'VE REVIEWED AND MADE A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL TO YOU THIS EVENING OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS.

UM, WE HAD A COUPLE NEIGHBORHOOD INFORMATIONAL MEETINGS IN THAT TIMEFRAME AS WELL.

UM, SO THE GOAL WOULD BE TO COME HERE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT AND SHOULD YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE MOVING THAT ALONG, OUR GOAL IS TO THEN GET THIS TO COUNCIL HERE BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR.

UM, AND AS PART OF ARBS REVIEW, THEY HAD SOME MINOR MODIFICATIONS, WHICH WE'VE INCORPORATED.

SO ENSURING THAT ALL THOSE APPENDIX G PROPERTIES ARE IDENTIFIED ALSO AS LANDMARKS.

UM, WE HAD THE RELOCATED CABIN THAT'S, UM, UNDER CONSTRUCTION ON THE DUBLIN ARTS COUNCIL SITES THAT WASN'T PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED ON HERE, THAT'S NOW INCLUDED.

UM, ARB ALSO HAD DISCUSSION ABOUT, SO IN THE CODE, IF YOU WERE REQUESTING DEMOLITION IN ANY INSTANCE UNDER THE CURRENT CODE, YOU HAVE TO GET APPROVAL FOR WHAT'S GONNA BE REPLACED WITH, UH, WHAT THE DEMO DEMOLISHED STRUCTURE'S GONNA BE REPLACED WITH.

THE ARB FELT THAT FOR LANDMARK BUILDINGS THAT SHOULD REMAIN TRUE FOR BACKGROUND BUILDINGS.

THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO JUST DEMOLISH AND RESTORE THE SITE, UM, TO SORT OF A CLEAN CONDITION AND COME FORWARD AT A LATER DATE TO GET SOMETHING APPROVED THAT THAT FELT MORE USER-FRIENDLY, UM, IN THAT INSTANCE.

AND THEN WE HAD SOME MINOR CLERICAL THINGS THAT WE UPDATED AS WELL.

SO THOSE CHANGES HAVE BEEN INCORPORATED IN WHAT'S BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING.

UM, SO WITH THAT, WE'RE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL VISTA TO CITY COUNCIL.

HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR TALK THROUGH, UM, ANY DETAILS THAT YOU HAVE.

SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MS. RAUSCH.

SO I'LL HANDLE QUESTIONS AND THEN WE'LL TURN SOME TIME OVER FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

WE, BEFORE WE CONTINUE ON TO DELIBERATION, SO LOOKING TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM.

I, I HAVE ONE, UH, IT'S KIND OF UNRELATED, BUT RELATED.

UM, UH, WHEN, UH, SOMEBODY, UH, PURCHASES A PROPERTY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, IS THIS GONNA BE ATTACHED TO THE DEEDED OR, UH, AS A REQUIREMENT? BECAUSE I MEAN, I I, I I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB, BUT I THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW GOING IN, UH, WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE.

Y YEAH, SO WE DON'T ATTACH ANYTHING TO THE PROPERTY.

I MEAN, IT'S OBVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED THAT IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

WHEN YOU ARE A NEW RESIDENT, YOU GET INFORMATION ABOUT THE CITY.

AND WE DO INCLUDE IN THAT A MAILER THAT WE'VE CREATED IN OUR OFFICE THAT, YAY, YOU'RE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND YOU NOW HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO, UM, MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT AND THAT THERE'S RULES AND, UM, REQUIREMENTS FOR YOU AS A PROPERTY OWNER.

UM, WE ALSO DO THAT MAILER THEN ON A YEARLY BASIS, WHETHER YOU'RE A NEW PROPERTY OWNER OR NOT.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF COMMUNICATION THAT HAPPENS, UM, TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THAT.

'CAUSE WE HAVE HAD THAT IN, IN THE PAST WHERE PEOPLE WERE NOT REALLY FULLY AWARE OF WHAT THAT MEANS.

UM, AND SO WE'VE REALLY TRIED TO RAMP UP OUR EDUCATION FACTORS.

WE HAVE ON OUR WEBSITE, UM, A HISTORIC DISTRICT PAGE WHERE ALL THE RESOURCES ARE FOR THE CODE, THE GUIDELINES, THINGS RELATED TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES.

SO WE'VE REALLY TRIED HARD TO, TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A, IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY AND, AND A RESPONSIBILITY AND, AND WE'RE HERE TO HELP FIGURE THAT OUT.

SO I UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT BEFORE THEY BUY THE PROPERTY, IN OTHER WORDS, IF SOMEBODY BUYS A PROPERTY IN SPECIAL AREAS LIKE GERMAN VILLAGE, IF THEIR ATTORNEY READS THE DEEDED, IT HAS SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS, OKAY? SO THE ATTORNEY CAN SAY TO THEM, YOU'RE BUYING THIS, BUT YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE GOT TO DO THIS AND

[00:55:01]

THIS AND THIS BEFORE YOU BUY IT.

UH, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS ONCE THEY BUY IT, THEN YOU HAND THIS AND THEY, I MEAN, I'M NOT IN YEAH, GO AHEAD.

YEAH, YEAH.

MR. BOX, CAN YOU SPEAK TO CITY'S OBLIGATION RESPONSIBILITY IN NOTIFICATION OF, UH, OR, OR MAYBE EVEN NOT JUST, UH, OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY ABILITY TO, RIGHT.

I I DON'T KNOW IF THIS COULD TETHER INTO TITLE COMPANIES AND TITLES OR YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

IF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR HAS SOLVED THIS, SET A MACRO SCALE THAT YOU KNOW WELL, SO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CODE GOVERNED BY THE CITY OF DUBLIN, ENFORCED BY THE CITY OF DUBLIN, IS A ZONING CODE, WHICH DOES NOT, NOT NECESSARILY, AND PROBABLY IN NEARLY EVERY CASE, DOES NOT AT ALL APPEAR IN THE CHAIN OF TITLE FOR THE CODE.

IT'S REG OR FOR THE PROPERTY, IT'S REGULATORY.

IT COULD BE CHANGED BY THE CITY OF DUBLIN, UM, YOU KNOW, AT ITS LEISURE, SUBJECT TO LEGISLATIVE PROCESSES.

SO THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE ANY DUTY TO AFFIRMATIVELY INFORM PEOPLE MOVING INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT THEY ARE MOVING INTO A HISTORIC DISTRICT OR THAT THEY HAVE ANY SPECIAL, UM, OBLIGATIONS THAT APPLY TO THEM.

IT IS THAT KNOWLEDGE IS, UH, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO ACQUIRE.

NOW THAT BEING SAID, I KNOW THAT THE, THE CITY DOES MAKE AN EFFORT TO PUBLICIZE IT, BUT IT HAS NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO DO SO.

IT, MR. BOGS, IS THERE REALLY ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN I'M BUYING IN THE HORSE HISTORIC DISTRICT VERSUS I'M BUYING NEXT TO AN EMPTY PARCEL, AND I I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CAN BE HOUSING OR A GAS STATION OR, OR, OR IS THERE REALLY ANY SUBSTAN SUBSTAN YES.

I CAN'T SPEAK SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE.

NO, NO.

THANK YOU, MR. FOX.

OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? OKAY, SO, SO I, YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO DO THAT, RIGHT? BUT I KNOW WHEN I BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY, MANY TIMES IN THE DEEDED IT SAYS, YOU'RE IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN AND YOU CAN'T DO THIS OR THAT, OR WHATEVER.

UM, UH, OR THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS, UM, I I, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE DEEDED, BUT, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THERE WAS A DOCUMENT THAT THE CITY PUBLISHED THAT WOULD GO WITH THE CLOSING STATEMENT OR SOMETHING.

BECAUSE I HEAR SO OFTEN, NOT JUST IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, PEOPLE SAY, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WHEN I BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THAT'S, UH, UH, YOU, I'M SURE YOU'VE DEALT WITH THAT A LOT.

AND SO I I, I'M NOT SAYING YOU'VE DONE IT BEFORE, BUT I'M JUST SUGGESTING, UH, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU, BY MY HOUSE IN, IN MEREFIELD, THERE'S A, A THING THAT'S THICK THAT GOES WITH THE DEEDED THAT SAYS WHAT YOU CAN DO AND WHAT YOU CAN'T DO.

WELL, AND PART OF THAT MAY BE A FUNCTION OF THE, THE MEREFIELD ASSOCIATION OR PARTICULAR HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION THAT THE DEVELOPER PUT THAT IN, RIGHT? THE DEVELOPER PUT THAT IN.

IN MORE RECENT TIMES, THE CITY HAS STARTED AS A CONDITION OF PUD REZONINGS REQUIRING THAT THERE BE FORCED AND FUNDED HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS.

AND THOSE UNDER OHIO'S PLANNED COMMUNITY LAW BECOME PART OF THE CHAIN OF TITLE, BUT THAT'S ALL CONTROLLED, UM, PRIMARILY AS A, AS A OBJECTIVE OF THAT PLANNED COMMUNITY LAW.

THERE'S ONLY A LITTLE ZONING PIECE THAT JUST SAYS, TO GET YOUR ZONING, YOU HAVE TO DO THIS HERE, BECAUSE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS REALLY A STRAIGHT ZONING DISTRICT.

THERE'S NOT THAT ELEMENT TO IT WHERE THE CITY IS REQUIRING SOMEBODY TO PUT ANYTHING IN THE CHAIN OF TITLE.

THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY TO CAUSE PEOPLE TO PLACE THINGS IN A DEEDED, UM, IN THAT WAY.

NOW, I BELIEVE, AND I COULD BE MISTAKEN, THAT THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS BY THE CITY IN THE PAST TO PUT OUT PAMPHLETS, PUBLISH TO, YOU KNOW, LOCAL TITLE AGENCIES AND LOCAL, UH, REALTORS THAT THEY NEED TO BE AT LEAST GIVING THEIR CLIENTS THE INFORMATION THAT THEY CAN GO OUT AND FIND WHAT ZONING DISTRICT THEY'RE IN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE UPTAKE ON THAT HAS BEEN, BECAUSE THAT'S ALL TOTALLY VOLUNTARY, IS I'M SURE THE REALTORS ARE SCRAMBLING TO GET PEOPLE ALL THAT INFORMATION WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO SELL 'EM A HOUSE.

UH, YEAH.

THAT, THAT MAY OR MAY FIRMLY IN CHIEF GREAT APPOINTMENT TO THE, BUT TO THE COMMENTARY IF THE CITY'S MAKING AN EFFORT TO RELAY THAT INFORMATION THAT I'M TO THE RIGHT PARTIES THAT'S SAYING IS SOMETHING, SOME DOCUMENT THAT, THAT THAT CAN, THAT CAN PASS WITH THE TITLE OR WITH THE, THE, IT HAS ALL THIS IN.

I BELIEVE, MADE SOUND LIKE WE HAVE TRIED TO GET PEOPLE TO ADOPT THOSE EFFORTS, BUT WE CAN'T MAKE PEOPLE DO IT.

THE, THE CITY HAS,

[01:00:02]

I MEAN, AND THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE, RIGHT? SO I THINK THAT'S MAYBE WHAT THE CHAIR WAS GETTING AT.

LIKE THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT TO BE SOUGHT.

IT'S A PRETTY SMALL DISTRICT, AND, AND HONESTLY, I MEAN, WE DON'T RUN INTO THAT ALL THE TIME.

PEOPLE, MOST OF THE TIME PEOPLE CON CONTACT OUR OFFICE TO ASK, WHAT ARE THE RESTRICTIONS I WANT TO DO X CAN I DO THAT? SO, I MEAN, THERE IS DEFINITELY A DIALOGUE.

I MEAN, I ADDITIONALLY, EVERY HOMEOWNER WHO SELLS A HOUSE HAS TO FILL OUT A SELLER'S DISCLOSURE.

ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? SEEING NONE, WE WILL MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

AND THAT'S THE METHOD FOR COMMUNICATION FROM ONE SELLER TO A PURCHASER.

ANY RESTRICTIONS ON THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY.

THE CITY, IF THE CITY WERE THE SELLER, THE CITY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PROPERTY.

BUT WHETHER THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY, PASSING TO PRIVATE PROPERTY, THE CITY IS QUITE RESTRICTED IN WHAT OUR, UH, ABILITY TO FORCE IS TO, TO IT.

WHAT I HEAR IN THAT THERE IS A MECHANISM BY WHICH INFORMATION LIKE THIS SHOULD BE TRANSFERRED AND RELAYED TO A POTENTIAL NEW BUYING.

CORRECT.

NEW, NEW OWNER.

CORRECT.

UM, SEPARATE QUESTION.

WE JUST, UH, RATTLED THROUGH ALL THAT, BUT OF COURSE THERE ARE, AND I, AND I'M, MAYBE, I'M, MAYBE I'M JUST CLARIFYING.

THERE ARE FOUR DIFFERENT DISTINCTIONS ON THIS, IN THIS DOCUMENT.

THERE'S THE GREEN ONES, THE ORANGE ONES, THE BLUE ONES, THE GRAY ONES.

SOME OF THOSE, I THINK THE GREEN AND THE YELLOW ARE NATIONALLY REGISTERED.

DOES THAT INFORMATION UNDERSTOOD THAT OUR PLANNING AND ZONING DISTRICT IS A ZONING ZONING, UM, ZONING, CODIFIED ZONING THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT TO THE DEEDED OR THE TITLE, TITLE PROCESS? I GUESS I'M ASKING A NATIONALLY REGISTERED, I THINK IS DEPARTMENT OF INTERIORS ORIENTED STUFF, WHICH IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THE CITY OF DUBLIN.

MM-HMM.

DOES THAT INFORMATION HAVE A MECHANISM THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN, SAY, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? OUR, OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT? UH, I DO NOT KNOW IF THE DEPARTMENT REQUIRES AS A CONDITION OF BEING LISTED THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER AT THE TIME OF LISTING, YOU KNOW, RECORD SOME MEMORANDUM, YOU KNOW, INTO THE CHAIN OF TITLE OR NOT.

GOT IT.

THANK YOU, MS. HARDER, UH, YES, I CAN YOU, UM, GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT BETTER BACKGROUND ABOUT, UM, STONE WALLS, UH, IF THAT IS A BACKGROUND AND IF YOU CAME UPON A STONEWALL, LIKE YOU'RE DIGGING AND, AND, UH, ARE YOU THEN OBLIGATED THEN TO PASS THAT ALONG? YOU, YOU MENTIONED IT A BIT HERE AND I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED A BIT MORE.

YEAH, SO THAT GOES TO THE PIECE.

SO IN THE HISTORIC CULTURAL ASSESSMENT FROM 2017 STONEWALL, WERE VERY, UM, SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED AND THERE'S AN INVENTORY, AND WE HAVE AN INVENTORY OF WHERE ONES EXIST AND, AND THEN ULTIMATELY A RANGE OF THESE ARE MOST HISTORIC OR ACCURATE, VERSUS ONES THAT WERE BUILT, UM, THAT LOOK DIFFERENT AND DON'T HAVE THE SAME CHARACTER.

SO THERE THAT ALREADY IS IDENTIFIED, UM, WITHIN THE ASSESSMENT, THE GOAL OF ARB, WHEN THEY REVIEW PROJECTS, THEY SEE THOSE WALLS.

AND IF SOMEONE WANTED TO, UM, REMOVE RELOCATE, THAT WOULD BE WITHIN THEIR PURVIEW TO DETERMINE THAT.

UM, I MEAN, AGAIN, OUR GOAL ALWAYS IS TO RETAIN THOSE.

UM, AND THEY, THEY PRETTY MUCH HISTORICALLY HAVE, HAVE EITHER REQUIRED THEM TO BE, TO REMAIN ON THEIR SITE, BE REBUILT OR RELOCATED SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IT'S PRETTY RARE THAT THEY WOULD LET THOSE BE, UM, DEMOLISHED AS PART OF A DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.

UM, BUT AGAIN, WE ARE DOING THIS, UM, THERE ARE OTHER ITEMS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, PARTICULARLY OUTBUILDINGS, THAT AS PART OF THAT ASSESSMENT WE'RE NOT REALLY REVIEWED.

UM, SO THAT'S PART OF THIS PHASE TWO CONVERSATION IS LOOKING AT THE OUTBUILDINGS TOO, TO IDENTIFY THAT.

UM, AND IF WE NEED TO ADDRESS SOMETHING ALSO RELATED TO THE STONE WALLS MORE CLEARLY, WE, WE ANTICIPATE INCLUDING THAT TOO.

SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

AND JUST BACK TO OUR EARLIER DISCUSSION, I DID PULL UP THE, UH, STATE OF OHIO DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, UH, UH, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY DISCLOSURE FORM, REALIZING THIS IS RESIDENTIAL, AND WE DO HAVE SOME BUSINESSES, UM, UH, SKIPPING THE DISCLOSURES AT THE TOP THAT ESSENTIALLY SAY, DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE.

UM, ON THE THIRD PAGE OF THE DOCUMENT, IT DOES SAY, DO YOU KNOW OF, UH, IS THE STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY DESIGNATED BY ANY GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITY AS A HISTORIC BUILDING OR IS BEING LOCATED IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT NOTE, SUCH DESIGNATION MAY LIMIT CHANGES OR IMPROVEMENTS THAT MAY BE, MAY BE MADE ON THE PROPERTY, YES OR NO? AND IF YES, DESCRIBE,

[01:05:02]

DOES ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION? IF YOU'LL PLEASE COME FORWARD, STEP UP TO THE MICROPHONE, PRESS THE BUTTON UNTIL YOU SEE THE GREEN LIGHT, AND THEN STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

HI, UM, MY NAME IS LINDY LYON AND I LIVE AT 1 4 3 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UM, MR. FISHMAN, I ACTUALLY LOVE THAT YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION.

I ACTUALLY THINK WE NEED MORE GOVERNMENT LEADERS WHO ARE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT PROTECTING PEOPLE BEFORE THEY GET INTO SITUATIONS WHERE THEY HAVE NO IDEA.

AND WE'VE HEARD THE WHOLE DUE DILIGENCE THING, BUT WE WERE ONE OF THE PROPERTIES THAT WILL NOW BE A BACKGROUND PROPERTY THAT TRULY DOESN'T HAVE ANY HISTORICAL INTEGRITY, BUT WAS FLAGGED AS SOMETHING THAT IT'S A POST WORLD WAR II HOME, UM, CONCRETE BLOCK, A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET FALLING APART.

WE'RE NOT UNGRATEFUL FOR A ROOF OVER OUR HEAD, BUT IT TRULY IS ONLY A ROOF OVER OUR HEAD.

IT WAS ALL WE COULD AFFORD TO GET INTO THE DISTRICT THAT WE WANTED TO BE IN.

AND WE HAD NO IDEA THAT THERE WOULD BE, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE WITHOUT REASON TO THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE A HISTORIC PROPERTY THAT WOULD HAVE SUCH REGULATIONS OVER IT TRULY HAS NO PLAQUE.

ANYONE DRIVING BY WOULD BE LIKE, OOH, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT JUST, IT DOESN'T HAVE HISTOR HISTORICAL INTEGRITY.

SO NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD'VE TRULY THOUGHT THAT WHEN THEY BOUGHT IT.

WE DID KNOW IT WAS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT.

BUT TO THINK THAT, UM, THERE WAS A BOARD THAT HAD SO MUCH CONTROL OVER A PROPERTY WITH, UM, LIKE NO REMARKABILITY AS FAR AS HISTORY, EXCEPT FOR IT WAS POST WORLD WAR II.

LIKE THAT REPRESENTS VERY HARD TIME IN AMERICA THAT WE WOULD BE STUCK WITH IT.

WE JUST DID NOT KNOW THAT.

SO I ACTUALLY LOVE THAT YOU SAID THAT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SO HELPFUL.

THIS HAS BEEN A TWO YEAR PROCESS FOR OUR FAMILY, TRYING TO DEMO AND BUILD A HOUSE THAT WE CAN RAISE A FAMILY IN AND THAT WE CAN STAY FOR THE LONG RUN.

I GREW UP IN DUBLIN, LOVE DUBLIN.

THIS HAS LIKE, BEEN OUR DREAM.

AND SO WE FEEL REALLY THANKFUL THAT WE'RE KIND OF REORGANIZING THIS THING, MAKING IT MORE CLEAR, CONTRIBUTING NON-CONTRIBUTING, DOING IT IN A WAY IT'S LIKE A LOT OF CONFUSION FOR THAT AVERAGE JOE, YOU KNOW, JUST BUYING A HOUSE.

SO, UM, WE'RE REALLY THANKFUL FOR THE CHANGES.

AND I LOVE THAT YOU SAID THAT, THAT THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE TO SAY, OH, YOU KNOW, DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE OR THIS OR THAT, OR PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW, YOU KNOW, BUT I I, I, HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO HAVE THAT BE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD'VE SAVED US YEARS OF HARDSHIP AND TROUBLE TRYING TO PROVE HARDSHIP ON A PROPERTY THAT HAD NO HISTORIC INTEGRITY WHATSOEVER.

SO I LOVE THAT.

IF THAT COULD HAPPEN, GREAT.

I THINK IT WON'T BE AS BIG OF AN ISSUE NOW BECAUSE THERE'S MORE CLARITY ON PROPERTIES AND TRULY MORE RESPECT FOR WHAT IS HIS HISTORICALLY RELEVANT.

UM, AS FAR AS REMARKABILITY, NOT JUST, THAT IS A TIME IN HISTORY, YOU KNOW, THAT REPRESENTS VERY HARD TIMES AND YOU CAN'T TELL IN AMERICA SOMEONE, YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT AND DEAL WITH THAT.

LIKE, THAT'S UN-AMERICAN.

UM, SO YES, WE'RE THANKFUL.

WE ARE SO EXCITED AFTER TWO YEARS OF TRYING TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD A HOME THAT WE CAN STAY IN AND LOVE AND HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THAT AT THIS POINT.

UM, WE'VE LIVED THERE FOR SIX YEARS AND THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A REALITY FOR US.

SO WHEN WE WENT THERE AND LIKE, IT WAS LIKE JUST SHATTERED DREAMS, RIGHT? WHEN SOMEONE'S LIKE, OH, THIS IS HISTORIC AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, AND YOU SHOULD'VE KNOWN AND ALL THESE THINGS.

WELL, IT'S COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE AND IT HAS BEEN VERY DIFFICULT.

SO I'M VERY THANKFUL THAT YOU EVEN THOUGHT OF THAT TO, TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM SITUATIONS THAT THEY DON'T SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

UM, SO YEAH, THAT'S REALLY MY, MY 2 CENTS.

SO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

AND UM, YEAH, WE'RE, MY FAMILY'S REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CLARITY AND UPDATES.

WE LOVE THE HISTORIC AREA, UM, AND WE WANT TO ADD TO THE VALUE OF THE AREA.

THANK YOU MS. LE.

ANYONE ELSE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH TO MAKE COMMENT ON THIS ITEM? HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY COMMENT FROM THE LIVESTREAM? ALRIGHT.

RIGHT, WE ARE LOOKING, UM, FOR, UH, DISCUSSION, UH, AND A MOTION TO MOVE THIS FORWARD FOR RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.

YES, MR. FISHMAN, UM, NOT TO DWELL ON THIS, BUT THE YOUNG LADY BROUGHT UP, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WE CAN ATTACH THIS WHEN WE APPROVE THIS DOCUMENT, UM, IN SOMEBODY THERE, THERE'S GOTTA BE A PRESIDENT OF THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, I GUESS, AND ALL THAT, THAT EVERYBODY GETS A COPY BEFORE THEY CLOSE ON THEIR HOUSE.

UH, COULD WE ASK AS A COMMISSION THAT IT BE BROUGHT FORWARD AS A CONCERN FROM THE COMMISSION TO CITY COUNCIL FOR DISCUSSION OF IF THERE IS A WAY TO PRE NOTIFY, WE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT AS USUAL.

BETTER SAID THAN I .

ALRIGHT.

I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

MOTION TO APPROVE.

THANK YOU MRS. LACK.

DO I HAVE SECOND? SECOND.

HAVE SOME COMMUNICATIONS, UM, ON OUR AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.

MR. FISHMAN, DID WE HAVE ANY CONDITIONS OR ANYTHING? NO.

UH, MS. BEAL.

[01:10:01]

MS. MR. CHINNOCK? YES.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

UH, WE DO

[Solar Implementation – Tammy Noble]

THE FIRST ONE IS THE SOLAR IMPLEMENTATION.

MS. NOBLE, ARE YOU PRESENTING THAT PARTICULAR ITEM TO US THIS EVENING? I AM.

WONDERFUL.

I'LL TURN THE TIME OVER TO YOU.

SO WE APPRECIATE THE COMMISSION'S ATTENTION TO A TOPIC THAT IS OF PARTICULAR, UH, CONCERN WITH THE CITY OF DUBLIN, UM, SPECIFIC TO RENEWABLE ENERGY.

UM, IF THE COMMISSION WOULD RECALL APPROXIMATELY TWO YEARS AGO, WE HAD INTRODUCED SOME REGULATIONS RELATED TO SOLAR ENERGY.

UM, WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN IMPLEMENTING CODE LANGUAGE, UM, THAT WOULD REGULATE SOLAR ENERGY.

WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF MONTHS TO REVIEW THIS CODE LANGUAGE, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WHAT WE'VE, UM, EXPERIENCED AS PART OF THAT REVIEW PROCESS AND GAIN SOME INPUT FROM THE COMMISSION REGARDING HOW WE MOVE FORWARD.

IN TERMS OF SOME BACKGROUND, UM, THE CITY OF DUBLIN ADOPTED THESE REGULATIONS AGAIN AFTER A LENGTHY, UH, CONVERSATIONS FOR SEVERAL YEAR YEARS.

IN JUNE OF 2023, THERE'S A 30 DAY REFERENDUM PERIOD.

SO THE, THIS, UH, LANGUAGE WAS ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE JULY 12TH, 2023.

AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE BUILDING CODE SINCE, OR THE BUILDING DIVISION SINCE THAT TIME TO REVIEW PERMITS ASSOCIATED WITH SOLAR ENERGY IN TERMS OF VOLUME, SINCE THE ADOPTION IN JULY, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY THREE MONTHS, WE'VE HAD 25 PERMITS.

UM, PRIOR TO THAT WE HAD 75 PERMITS IN TOTALITY SUBMITTED TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN.

SO THE, UM, ESSENCE IS WE ARE EXPERIENCING AN INCREASE IN PERMITS ASSOCIATED WITH SOLAR ENERGY, AND WE'RE EXCITED TO HAVE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE FOR US IN TERMS OF HOW WE REGULATED THE CODE PRIOR TO THE ADOPTION OF THE NEW REGULATIONS.

UM, IN AN EFFORT TO ALLOW SOME INSTALLATION OF SOLAR ENERGY, WE DID NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF CODE REGULATION SPECIFIC TO SOLAR, AGAIN, PRIOR TO THE CODE.

SO WE ACTUALLY UTILIZED A PROVISION IN THE CODE CALLED ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, UM, TO ALLOW SOME, UM, PROJECTS TO MOVE FORWARD FOR SOLAR ENERGY.

THE IMPORTANT PART OF THAT CHANGE WAS WHEN WE WERE REVIEWING IT PRIOR TO THE NEW LANGUAGE, IT ONLY REGULATED LOCATION OF SOLAR PANELS.

SPECIFICALLY, IT REQUIRED THAT SOLAR PANELS BE LOCATED TO THE SIDE OR THE REAR OF THE BUILDING.

IT DID NOT PERMIT TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING, BUT IT DID NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE IT WAS A GENERIC CODE SECTION.

UM, IN TERMS OF MOVING FORWARD IN OUR CURRENT CODE REGULATIONS, WE DID ALLOW MORE PERMISSIVE LANGUAGE.

CURRENTLY, OUR CODE ALLOWS FOR SOLAR PANELS TO BE INSTALLED IN ANY, UH, LOCATION OF A BUILDING, BUT TO, UM, ALLOW THAT ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT, WE DID INCLUDE AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS AND, UM, REVIEWING THOSE AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS.

AS PART OF OUR DISCUSSION TONIGHT, MOVING THE TWO CODE SECTIONS THAT WE ARE SPECIFICALLY TARGETING FOR THIS CONVERSATION, UM, WE HAVE, THERE'S, THERE'S A HANDFUL OF, UH, CODE MODIFICATIONS THAT ATTEMPT TO GET AESTHETIC TWO AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS, BUT SPECIFICALLY THE TWO REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'RE CHALLENGED WITH THE MOST AND OUR CURRENT APPLICATIONS ARE THE FIRST, UH, REGULATION IS A REGULATION THAT'S SPECIFIC TO ROOF-MOUNTED EQUIPMENT.

IT REQUIRES THAT IF IT'S A ROOF-MOUNTED, UH, PRODUCT, THAT THEY, THE PANELS BE INSTALLED IN A RECTANGULAR SHAPE AND I'LL EXPLAIN HOW, HOW WE, UM, GOT TO THESE REGULATIONS.

BUT THE IDEA IS TO AVOID ANY TYPE OF, UM, COMPLEX OR NON-SYMMETRICAL CONFIGURATIONS AND THAT IT LOOK ALIGNED AND CONSISTENT WITH THE, UM, THE ROOF ITSELF.

THE SECOND REQUIREMENT THAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING AT LENGTH IS A REQUIREMENT THAT WE WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS HOW THE PANELS LOOKED IN TERMS OF, OF, UM, BEING MOUNTED TO AN EXISTING ROOF, AND SPECIFICALLY THAT IT'S LOOKED INTEGRATED TO THE ROOF TO THE EXTENT THAT IT COULD BE, AND IT'S SPECIFIC TO COLOR.

AND OUR SPECIFIC REGULATIONS

[01:15:01]

CURRENTLY STATE THAT THE COLOR IS SIMILAR TO THE ROOF COLOR, THAT THE PANELS BE SIMILAR IN IN COLOR.

UM, AGAIN, THERE'S OTHER PROVISIONS IN THE CODE THAT WE HAVE WORKED THROUGH THAT ARE WORKING QUITE WELL AND THAT IT, THAT INCLUDES, UM, CONCEALING ANY TYPE OF ACCESSORY PARTS, UM, INCLUDING FLASHING FRAMES, CONDUITS, AND, AND WIRINGS.

UH, SECONDLY THAT THE EQUIPMENT BE IN WORKING CONDITION AND THAT, UM, ANY TYPE OF COLOR OF THE FRAMING, FRAMING, UM, BE MATCHING TO THE ROOF ITSELF.

THOSE ARE ALL WORKING QUITE WELL.

IT'S THE TWO PROVISIONS THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT WE'RE, UM, ASKING FOR THE COMMISSIONS INPUT ON.

SO, I'LL, I'LL, UH, BRIEFLY GO THROUGH THE REVIEW PROCESS.

UM, THIS HAS HAD SOME LENGTHY CONVERSATION.

IT STARTED IN THE LATER PORTION, PORTION OF 2021.

UM, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED WITH THE REGULATIONS, WE WORKED WITH, UM, A MYRIAD OF, OF ENTITIES THAT WE COULD GET SOME EXPERIENCE FROM, INCLUDING INSTALLERS, UM, ENERGY PROVIDERS, REGIONAL PARTNERS, INCLUDING MORSI.

UM, AND WE ALSO LOOKED AT OTHER COMMUNITIES FOR BENCHMARKING EFFORTS, UM, AND WE LOOKED, LOOKED AT THAT NATIONALLY AS WELL AS LOCALLY.

IN TERMS OF WHAT THIS COMMISSION ACTUALLY SAW, THIS WAS ACTUALLY, UH, PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSION IN FOUR SEPARATE MEETINGS OF WHICH CONCLUDED IN OCTOBER OF 2022.

AND THOSE ARE ALL PUBLIC PROCESSES.

UM, AS IT CONCLUDED WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND WE DID SOME, WE DID SOME VISUAL SURVEYS, WE DID A LOT OF, UM, COMPARISON WITH CODE LANGUAGE.

BUT AS IT CONCLUDED WITH THIS PARTICULAR BODY, WE ALLOWED FOR GROUND MOUNTED EQUIPMENT, UM, BOTH RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.

WE REQUIRED THAT THE EQUIPMENT BE LOCATED TO THE SIDE OF THE REAR, WHICH WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE, UM, PREVIOUS PROCESSES.

WE REQUIRED THAT, UM, THE EQUIPMENT BE LIMITED IN VISIBILITY, UM, FROM THE RIGHT OF WAYS, AND THAT THERE WERE HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS.

NOW I'VE UNDERLINED, UH, A PARTICULAR CODE SECTION BECAUSE THAT DID GET MODIFIED AS IT MOVED TO COUNCIL.

SPECIFICALLY, COUNCIL DID REQUIRE THAT GROUND MOUNTED EQUIPMENT ONLY BE PERMITTED IN COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.

SO I'M TRYING TO SPECIFY HOW THAT CHANGED.

UM, IN TERMS OF ROOF MOUNTED EQUIPMENT, AGAIN, WE ALLOWED TO THE SIDE OR REAR, UH, THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS THAT THE COLOR BE COMPLIMENTARY TO THE ROOF, AND THAT THERE BE NO MORE THAN AN ELEVATION OF 18 INCHES BETWEEN THE ROOF AND THE PANELS THEMSELVES TO MITIGATE ANY TYPE OF VISIBILITY BETWEEN THE TWO.

AND FINALLY, THAT THEY BE AR UH, IT'D BE ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED INTO THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING.

SO AS IT STAND STANDS, THAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AS IT MOVED FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL.

UM, WHEN IT WAS FIRST HEARD IN, UH, NOVEMBER OF 2022, UH, CITY COUNCIL, THERE HAD BEEN, UM, A A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT MOSTLY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES.

AND COUNCIL HAD ASKED US TO CLARIFY MUCH OF THE LANGUAGE THAT WE WERE PROPOSING SPECIFICALLY, UH, WHAT IT, WHAT, UM, TYPE OF IMPLICATIONS IT WOULD HAVE ON A RESIDENTIAL HOMEOWNER.

SO IN RESPONSE TO COUNCIL'S CONCERNS, THE CITY, UM, DID, WE HAD ALREADY CONDUCTED A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE SURVEY WITH HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS.

BUT, UM, TO GET A WIDER AUDIENCE FOR THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC, WE LITERALLY EXTENDED THE SURVEY TO ALL RESIDENTS AND PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN THE CITY OF DUBLIN RELATED TO WHAT THEIR VIEWPOINTS ARE WITH SOLAR.

AND THEIR ATTITUDES TOWARDS MOVING FORWARD WAS SOLAR ENERGY.

WE HAD A VERY GOOD RESPONSE RATE.

IT WAS LESS THAN A THOUSAND RESPONSE RESPONSES, BUT THAT'S A VERY HIGH TURNOVER FOR A PARTICULAR TOPIC.

UM, WE ALSO CONDUCTED A PUBLIC MEETING THAT WAS SPECIFIC TO SOLAR ENERGY, WHERE WE DID A MENTEE METER, UM, EXERCISE WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE PUBLIC, GET IMMEDIATE RESPONSES AND RESPOND TO, UM, WHAT THE VIEWPOINTS WERE IN THE ROOM.

SO THAT WAS A VERY HEALTHY AND, UM, INTERACTIVE PROCESS.

AND FOR THE MOST PART, THERE WAS A VERY POSITIVE REACTION TO SOLAR ENERGY.

UM, SO, UH, WE THEN TURNED TO CITY COUNCIL TO RESPOND TO WHAT WE HAD HEARD, UM, BOTH FROM THE SURVEY AND THE PUBLIC MEETING.

WE CONDUCTED TWO WORK SESSIONS, UM, IN THE BEGINNING PORTIONS OF THE YEAR.

AND A LOT OF THAT CONVERSATION FOCUSED ON TWO THINGS.

ONE, RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES.

WE WERE MOSTLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IMPACTS IT WOULD BE TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY, AND SECONDLY,

[01:20:02]

HOW THESE REGULATIONS APPLIED TO THE FRONT FACADE OF A HOME, SPECIFICALLY THAT'S THE MOST VISIBLE VIEWPOINT, AND HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.

UM, WE DID WORK THROUGH CODE LANGUAGE WITH CITY COUNCIL, AND IT CONCLUDED WITH A SECOND READING IN JUNE OF 2023.

UM, THERE WAS A GREAT DIALOGUE IN TERMS OF SOLAR ENERGY AND WHAT WE WERE HEARING FROM THE PUBLIC AND CITY COUNCIL HEARD RATHER LOUDLY THAT THERE WAS SUPPORT FOR SOLAR ENERGY.

SO TO SUPPORT SOLAR CITY COUNCIL, UM, DECIDED TO ALLOW SOLAR EQUIPMENT ON ALL FACADES OF THE BUILDING, AS I DISCUSSED EARLIER, WITH THE IDEA THAT THERE WOULD BE AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS.

AND AGAIN, THOSE, THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT TONIGHT.

SO JUST IN TERMS OF, AGAIN, OF WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING SINCE THE ADOPTION OF THE CODE, WE'VE HAD 25 PERMITS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED, AND THIS IS AS OF OCTOBER, BUT 25 PERMITS THAT WE'RE SUBMITTED TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

UM, SPECIFIC TO RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES, THERE'S ONE COMMERCIAL APPLICATION, BUT MOST OF THIS DIALOGUE IS RELATED TO RESIDENTIAL.

UM, SEVEN OF THOSE APPLICATIONS HAVE BEEN APPROVED.

SO IF YOU DEDUCT, THAT'S A ROUGHLY ABOUT 28%.

UM, THE RATE THAT WE'RE EITHER DISAPPROVING OR REQUIRING MORE INFORMATION IS A LITTLE HIGHER THAN WE EXPECTED, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE BEFORE THE COMMISSION TONIGHT.

UM, WE WANT TO NOT ONLY IMPROVE IN OUR REVIEW PROCESS, BUT WE WANNA WORK WITH INSTALLERS AND HOMEOWNERS TO UNDERSTAND, ARE WE ACCOMPLISHING WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA ACCOMPLISH, AND HOW CAN WE MOVE FORWARD TO MAKE SOLAR A PRIORITY FOR THE CITY? SO AFTER SEVERAL MONTHS, WE REVIEWED THE REGULATIONS, WE'VE PROVIDED AN UPDATE, UM, FOR THIS COMMISSION, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR SOME INPUT FROM THE COMMISSION.

THE FIRST CODE SECTION THAT WE'D LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IS, UM, A CODE SECTION THAT WE HAD ADOPTED FROM SEVERAL SUBURBAN COMMUNICA, UH, COMMUNITIES WITH A SLIGHT MODIFICATION, UM, IN TERMS OF SHAPE.

UM, SPECIFICALLY THE CODE SECTION IS LISTED ABOVE, BUT IT'S LISTED AS ROOF-MOUNTED EQUIPMENT SHALL BE INSTALLED IN A RECTANGULAR SHAPE.

AND WE, WE INCLUDED THE, UM, PHRASING AND RECTANGULAR SHAPE TO AVOID NON-SYMMETRICAL CONFIGURATIONS.

THE NON-SYMMETRICAL CONFIGURATIONS AS VERY TYPICAL IN MOST, UH, MOST COMMUNITIES.

BUT WE DID, UM, ADD THE FIRST PORTION OF THIS, AND IF YOU LOOK TO THE PICTURE TO THE LEFT, WE ANTICIPATED THAT WE WOULD GET A, A CONSISTENT SOLID SHAPE THAT WOULD LOOK MORE CON IN CONFORMITY TO THE ROOF LINE ITSELF.

AND WHAT WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO AVOID WAS THE SECOND PICTURE THAT THAT WOULD LOOK, UM, IN A SOMEWHAT DISORGANIZED, I GUESS, FASHION IF, IF YOU WILL, UM, AND THAT IT WOULD DRAW MORE ATTENTION TO THE ROOF LINE THAN, THAN NECESSARY.

SO WHAT WE HAVE FOUND, UM, THROUGH OUR REVIEWING OF APPLICATIONS IS BY REQUIRING THE RECTANGULAR IN SHAPE, WHAT WE'RE ASKING PROPERTY OWNERS TO DO IS EITHER ADD OR ADMIT PANELS TO MEET THAT REGULATION.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS EITHER THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE MODIFICATIONS OR THERE'S A, UH, SOME FACTORS IN EFFICIENCY IF THEY HAVE TO REDUCE PANELS.

SO WE'RE NOTICING THAT, THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT, UM, COMPANIES ARE, UM, BRINGING TO OUR ATTENTION.

THE OTHER THING THAT WE'RE FINDING IS THAT TO PROVIDE A SOLID INSTALLATION OF PANELS, THERE ARE THINGS SPECIFIC TO THE ROOF THAT CAN PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING SPECIFICALLY TO, I'M GONNA SAY, UH, VENTING PIPES, THINGS THAT ARE IN THE ROOF ITSELF THAT PROHIBIT A PANEL TO BE INSTALLED OVER IT.

SO WE'VE HAD TO MAKE SOME CONSIDERATIONS, UM, TO ACCOMMODATE THE, THE CURRENT CODE.

IN ORDER TO DO THAT.

WHAT WE'VE DONE IS IF YOU, AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK TO THE LEFT, THAT WAS OUR INTENDED CONSEQUENCE THAT, THAT YOU GET A A A SOLID STRAIGHT CONFIGURATION.

IF YOU NOTICE, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, THIS IS ON A GARAGE, ON THE SIDE OF A GARAGE, WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS TO THE RIGHT IS A, IS A EXAMPLE OF AN APPLICATION THAT WE'VE ACTUALLY APPROVED.

AND IF YOU SEE ALMOST TO THE CENTER OF THAT ROOF, THERE'S A VENT THAT'S PROHIBITING, UM, SOMETHING TO THE APP, ABSOLUTE CENTER OF THE ROOF.

BUT WHAT WE'VE DONE IS

[01:25:01]

WE'VE ALLOWED FOR, I'M GONNA SAY MULTIPLE RECTANGULAR SHAPES.

SO THEY MEET THE CODE AS IT STATES, BUT IT IS VERY DISSECTED.

SO OUR QUESTION IS, ARE WE ACCOMPLISHING WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA ACCOMPLISH? AND IS THAT THE APPEARANCE THAT WE WISH TO HAVE? SO THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE ASKING SPECIFICALLY OF THE COMMISSION, AND I WILL SAY, I'M GONNA GO THROUGH THESE QUESTIONS AND THEN CONTINUE ON TO THE NEXT SUBJECT AND WE'LL, WE'LL GO BACK AND, AND ALLOW FOR CONVERSATION IF THAT'S THAT'S ACCEPTABLE CHAIR.

SO TO TRY TO GET A, I GUESS, A HANDLE ON THE COLOR REQUIREMENTS, WHAT WE DID, UM, WE TOOK A SHINGLE COMPANY AND WE TOOK THE TYPICAL COLOR OPPORTUNITIES THAT A, THAT A PROPERTY OWNER WOULD HAVE FOR A SHINGLE APPLICATIONS.

UM, SO THE COM THE QUESTIONS THAT WE'RE POSING TO THE COMMISSION IS, FIRST, IS THE UPDATED CODE LANGUAGE IMPROVING THE AESTHETIC APPEARANCE OF SOLAR PANELS THUS FAR? IF SO, UM, DOES THE COMMISSION SUPPORT HOW PLANNING HAS INTERPRETED CODE? IN OTHER WORDS, HOW WE'RE KIND OF DISSECTING THOSE RECTANGULAR SHAPES? IF NOT, SHOULD A CODE, SHOULD THE CODE BE MODIFIED? AND THAT CODE MODIFICATION COULD INCLUDE COMPLETELY OMITTING THE RECTANGULAR AND SHAPE LANGUAGE ALTOGETHER, OR SIMPLY REQUIRING THAT ONLY ON THE FRONT FACADE OF A HOUSE.

AGAIN, THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL, UH, DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD UP UNTIL THE ADOPTION OF THE CODE.

AND THEN OF COURSE, ANY OTHER COMMENTS THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD HAVE.

THE SECOND REQUIREMENT THAT WE'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IS COLOR.

UM, CURRENTLY OUR CODE REQUIRES THAT ROOF MOUNTED EQUIPMENT BE OF A COLOR THAT THE, THE EXACT WORD IS SIMILAR TO ROOF COLOR.

UM, AS YOU MAY UNDERSTAND, PANELS, UM, ARE MANUFACTURED IN PRIMARILY A BLACK COLOR.

WE HAVE TALKED TO SOME COMPANIES THAT OFFER A GRAY PRODUCT, BUT IT'S VERY LIMITED.

UM, AND SPECIFIC TO THIS AREA, IT'S PRIMARILY A BLACK OPTION FOR INSTALLATION OF PANELS.

SO THE RESULT IS THE CITY HAS APPROVED MOSTLY DARKER COLORED ROOF SCHEMES FOR THE, UM, FOR MEETING THIS PARTICULAR CODE REQUIREMENT.

THE SECOND THING I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT IS I MENTIONED SEVEN OF OUR CURRENT APPLICATIONS HAVE BEEN APPROVED.

FIVE WERE COMPLETELY RE-ROOFED, UM, INSTALLATION PRACTICES.

SO THEY ACTUALLY HAD SOME ABILITY TO MODIFY THE COLOR BASED ON OUR REQUIREMENT.

SO THERE WERE, THERE WERE SOME ADVANTAGES IN THAT PARTICULAR SCENARIO THAT WOULDN'T BE NECESSARILY AVAILABLE TO SOMEONE WHO'S SIMPLY PLACING PANELS ON THE ROOF.

THE OTHER THING THAT WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, WE'RE TRYING TO BE CREATIVE IN HOW WE REVIEW THESE APPLICATIONS.

UM, WE'VE, WE'VE HEARD COMMENTS AND WE UNDERSTAND COMMENTS TO BE, IT'S A FAIRLY SUBJECTIVE REQUIREMENTS, SO HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT LESS SUBJECTIVE? SO WE'VE ACTUALLY STARTED TO REVIEW AND, UM, THANKFUL FOR, UH, CITY COUNCIL'S COMMENTS.

THERE'S SOME APPLICATIONS THAT WE'VE, UH, RESEARCHED WHERE YOU CAN BASICALLY TAKE A, TAKE A PICTURE, TAKE A PICTURE OF A PIC, TAKE A PICTURE OF A PRODUCT, AND IT WILL DISSECT WHAT KIND OF COLOR ELEMENTS ARE IN THAT PICTURE.

AND IT HELPS YOU DISSECT WHAT KIND OF COLOR TONES YOU'RE WORKING WITH.

I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

SO THE EXAMPLE ON THE LEFT, SO YOU'RE TAKING A PICTURE OF, LET'S JUST SAY YOU'RE DEALING WITH A COUPLE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF GREEN, SOME BLUES.

IT ALLOWS YOU TO DISSECT THAT COLOR, THAT PICTURE, AND TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT COLOR PALETTES YOU'RE DEALING WITH.

UM, THE SECOND, UM, APPLICATION PROCESS IS IF YOU TOOK A COLOR AND YOU WANTED TO REPLICATE, SAID COLOR, IT GIVES YOU OPTIONS FOR DOING SO.

SO WE'VE STARTED TO RESEARCH DIFFERENT IDEAS OF HOW WE CAN REGULATE THIS IN A MORE PRECISE MANNER.

UM, BUT THIS TONIGHT IS ONE OF OUR, UM, ATTEMPTS TO TRY TO GET SOME MORE PREDICTABILITY TO THE PROCESS.

UM, LASTLY, WE'VE ALSO RESEARCHED SOMETHING CALLED SOLAR SKIN, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAD RESEARCHED FOR, UM, CITY COUNCIL PRIOR TO THE ADOPTION OF CODE LANGUAGE.

AND THAT'S BASICALLY JUST A LAMINATE APPLICATION TO THE SOLAR PANELS THAT MIMIC WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE.

IT COULD BE A GRAPHIC, IT COULD BE THE ACTUAL, UH, PANELS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO MIMIC.

AND SO WE DID RESEARCH THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT AN APPLICANT HAD BROUGHT, UH, FORWARD TO US TO CONSIDER.

I WILL SAY BRIEFLY, WE'VE TALKED TO A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT INDUSTRY LEADERS AND THERE IS SOME CONCERNS ON THIS APPLICATION PROCESS OF ITS LONGEVITY AND ON IN ITS INSTALLATION PRACTICES.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE STILL CONTINUING TO RESEARCH.

[01:30:04]

AND WE DISSECTED THEM INTO WHAT WE WOULD CURRENTLY TODAY APPROVE, DISAPPROVE.

AND THE THIRD CATEGORY IS, I'M JUST GONNA SAY QUESTIONABLE AND WE'LL LOOK FOR YOUR GUIDANCE.

UM, THE TOP CATEGORY IS WHAT WE'VE APPROVED TO DATE.

THEY ARE, THEY ARE DARK IN NATURE.

IT INCLUDES BLACK, DARK BROWN AND DARK BROWN, UM, DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF, UM, FOR THE DISAPPROVED, THERE'RE LIGHTER IN NATURE.

THERE'S AN ORANGE BLUE, UM, AND LIGHT BEIGE COLORS THAT WE'VE, WE'VE, UM, NOT APPROVED.

AND THEN AGAIN, THE THIRD COLUMN IS MORE, THAT'S MORE OF LIKE VARIATIONS OF COLORS THAT WE SIMPLY NEED TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S LIGHT OR DARK AND DOESN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CODE.

SO FOR THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, UM, WE'RE ASKING, UM, FOR THE CODE LANGUAGE, ARE WE IMPROVING THE AESTHETIC APPEARANCE OF SOLAR PANELS BY DICTATING COLOR? UM, DOES THE COMMISSION SUPPORT HOW STAFF IS RECOMMENDING, UH, THE COLOR IMPLEMENTATION AND SHOULD ADDITIONAL COLORS BE SUPPORTED? WE ARE GETTING, UM, APPLICANTS THAT ARE GETTING LIGHTER COLOR APPLICATIONS THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR, UM, CONSIDERATION FOR.

AND THEN, UH, DOES THE COMMISSIONS SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SOLAR SKIN? AGAIN, WE HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS ON, UM, SOME, SOME ITEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

UM, SHOULD THE CODE BE MODIFIED, WOULD WE OR SHOULD WE OMIT THE COLOR REQUIREMENTS ALTOGETHER? OR AGAIN, SIMPLY REQUIRE THOSE REQUIREMENTS ON THE FRONT FACADE.

AND AS, AS ALWAYS, ANY CONSIDERATIONS FROM THE COMMISSION.

SO IF YOU LIKE, I WILL, I WILL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE WE PROCEED INTO THE DISCUSSION COMMENTS, AND THEN I'LL BACKTRACK INTO THE FIRST DISCUSSION TOPIC.

THANK YOU, MS. NOBLE.

SO WE WILL CONTINUE ON TO QUESTIONS AND THEN BEFORE WE GO INTO DISCUSSION, WE'LL HAVE TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

ALRIGHT.

DO MR. CHINOOK, DO WE WANNA DO QUESTIONS? AND IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S TWO BUCKETS HERE, TALKING SYMMETRY AND TALKING COLOR.

DO YOU WANNA YEP, LET'S DO COLOR FIRST AND THEN WE'LL BACKTRACK THEN WE'RE GOING BACK.

THE, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE SOLAR SKIN.

'CAUSE IT READ IN HERE AND I'VE HEARD OF IT DOESN'T PERFORM VERY WELL.

IS THAT, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR FINDINGS AROUND THE SOLAR SKIN AND HOW IT PERFORMS? UH, YES, OF COURSE.

SO I, I'VE TALKED TO NOT ONLY A COMPANY THAT WOULD ACTUALLY PRODUCE THIS FOR AN APPLICANT, BUT I'VE ALSO TALKED TO A, A SUPPLIER, UM, THAT WOULD, IF THEY WERE TO SELL THIS PRODUCT, THEY WOULD SELL THE PRODUCT.

UM, AND WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD IS THE INSTALLATION PROCESS IS VERY METICULOUS IN TERMS OF EACH PANEL IS INDIVIDUALLY COVERED.

AND SO AT ANY POINT IN TIME THAT APPLICATION PROCESS COULD BE IMPACTED BY, UM, EITHER ANY TYPE OF MOISTURE OR WEATHER CONDITIONS UNDERNEATH THE, THE, UM, LAMINATE.

AND THEN THE OTHER COMMENT THAT I RECEIVED IS IT DOES REDUCE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE PANELS THEMSELVES.

AND THIRDLY, THERE IS A WARRANTY ASSOCIATED WITH THE PRODUCT.

IT'S A 10 YEAR WARRANTY, BUT THEY SAID IN AS ANY TYPE OF BUILDING MATERIAL, IT'S INDICATIVE OF WEATHER CONDITIONS AND THAT BEING IN THE MIDWEST, WE HAVE A LOT OF RAIN, A LOT OF SNOW, AND THAT, THAT THAT COULD ACTUALLY REDUCE HOW THE PRODUCT PERFORMS EVEN WITHIN A 10 YEAR CYCLE.

SO, SO HAVE YOU APPROVED ANY WITH THAT? NO.

YOU'RE STILL WAITING.

YEP.

AND THEN I HAVE ANOTHER QUICK QUESTION.

SO YOU MENTIONED THE, UM, THE, THE, THE COLOR OF THE PANELS ITSELF AND THE FRAMING, I BELIEVE YOU SAID, YOU, YOU, THE, THE FRAMING AROUND THE PANELS TO MATCH THE ROOF COLOR OR IS THE FRAMING AROUND THE PANELS MATCH THE PANELS? BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENCE WHEN THE PANELS ARE MORE UNIFORM IN COLOR YEAH.

AS OPPOSED TO MATCHING THE ROOF COLOR.

NICER WHEN THEY, IT ALL MATCHES.

IN THE CURRENT REGULATIONS, I BELIEVE WE'VE HAD FLEXIBILITY HOW WE'VE APPROVED THE, THE, UM, APPLICATIONS IS THE FRAMING HAS ALWAYS MATCHED THE PANELS THEMSELVES.

IT JUST SIMPLY IS GONNA DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PANELS MORE IF WE DEVIATE IN COLOR.

YEAH, I AGREE.

I THINK THAT'S A BIG FACTOR IN THIS IS THAT IT MAKES IT LOOK A LOT MORE UNIFORM AND JUST

[01:35:01]

SO THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING.

THANK YOU MR. CHINO.

MS. HARDER, UH, JUST TALKING ABOUT OUTTA YOUR 25 APPLICATIONS, WAS IT NEIGHBORHOODS OR WAS IT INDIVIDUAL? SOMEONE WHO MAYBE LIVE ON AN ACRE LOT? UM, THE, I'M SORRY, THE, THE APPLICANT.

SO THE, SO I'M, YOU HAD LIKE 25, 27 APPLICANTS.

MM-HMM.

UM, AND OUT OF THOSE, WOULD THEY HAVE LIVED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE, YOU KNOW, 120 HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR IS IT INDIVIDUALS WHO LIVE ON ONE, UM, LOT THAT COULD BE, UH, NOT SURROUNDED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD? YEAH, SO MOST OF THEM ARE IN, IN PLATTED SUBDIVISIONS.

SO THEY'RE DENSE AREAS IN WHERE, WHERE THERE'S CLOSE PROXIMITY, IF YOU WILL.

AND THEN COULD YOU TELL IF ANY OF THOSE, UH, IF THEY'RE HOAS WEIGHED IN ON THEIR, ON, IF YOU'VE HEARD FROM THE HOAS CONCERNING THIS? UM, SO WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH HOAS ALMOST, I WOULD SAY INDIRECTLY WOULD BE MY RESPONSE.

IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

THO THOSE TWO, UH, REVIEW PROCESSES ARE PARALLEL AND TRACKED, UM, AND DON'T NECESSARILY IN INTERSECT, BUT WE HAVE WORKED WITH HOAS IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS.

SO I WOULD SAY IT'S COLLABORATIVE.

THANK YOU, MS. HARDER.

ANY QUESTIONS OVER ON MY LEFT, MR. FISHMAN? YEAH.

UM, HAVE WE INVESTIGATED ALL TYPES OF SOLAR PANELS THAT ARE OFFERED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD OR THE UNITED STATES? BECAUSE I, I, I HAVE A TESLA AND I GET, UH, COMMERCIALS FROM THEM EMAILS AND THEY HAVE THEM THAT LOOK LIKE SHINGLES.

AND YOU SHINGLE THE ROOF WITH, WITH THIS AND THEY GET, THEY SAY THE EFFICIENCY'S INCREDIBLE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

UM, UH, UH, MAYBE WE SHOULD, I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO MAKE A SQUARE PANEL LOOK LIKE IT BELONGS THERE WHEN YOU PUT IT ON A SHINGLED ROOF NO MATTER WHAT, IF YOU CHANGE THE COLOR, THAT HELPS A LITTLE, BUT IT'S STILL, I DROVE AROUND AND ONE THING I NOTICED THAT, UH, I, IN, IN THE COLUMBUS AREA, I'VE NOTICED SEVERAL, THEY, THEY DON'T BRING IT ALL THE WAY TO THE GUTTERS.

SO YOU'VE GOT THIS THING SITTING UP AND IT, IT, IT LOOKS LIKE A PANEL.

IT DOESN'T LOOK ATTRACTIVE AT ALL, UH, NO MATTER HOW THEY DO IT.

I FIGURE REPORTS REALLY WELL, AND I, AND MOST OF THEM, THE, THE, THE OBJECTION I HAD WAS THE HOW HIGH THEY SIT UP OFF THE ROOF AND ALSO THEY DON'T GO TO THE EDGE OF THE ROOF.

AND THEY DON'T USUALLY COVER THE WHOLE ROOF.

I, I, THERE'S ONE AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE NORTHWEST, I SAW A RANCH HOUSE AND IT, IT'S GOTTA BE TWO OR THREE FEET FROM THE EDGES OF THE ROOF, THE WHOLE THING.

AND IT SITS UP AND IT, IT, IT REALLY DOESN'T LOOK VERY ATTRACTIVE.

SO I WONDER IF WE COULD INVESTIGATE THE TYPES AND, AND, AND, UH, UM, UH, HOW THEY'RE INSTALLED.

I MEAN, I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB.

YOU, THERE'S A LOT OF WORK HERE.

I READ REMEMBER THIS, I MEAN YOU, UM, BUT I THINK THE CLOSER WE MAKE 'EM LOOK TO SHINGLES OR THE ROOF OR THE, THE HOUSE WAS BUILT THAT WAY, THE MORE ATTRACTIVE IT'S GONNA BE.

NO, THAT'S, IT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT.

SO, UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN, WHEN, UH, CITY COUNCIL WAS CONTEMPLATING WHAT WE SHOULD DO ON FRONT FACADES, WE DID RESEARCH SOLAR PANELS THAT ACT AS A BUILDING MATERIAL THEMSELVES.

AND THAT'S THE TESLA EXAMPLE THAT YOU MENTIONED.

UM, ORIGINALLY WHEN WE PROPOSED THE LANGUAGE TO CITY COUNCIL, AND IT'S STILL IN THE CODE TODAY, WE HAVE A PROVISION THAT IF THE SOLAR PANEL ACTS AS A BUILDING MATERIAL, THAT IT'S REVIEWED AS THE BUILDING MATERIAL.

SO IN YOUR PARTICULAR, WHAT IN THIS, WHERE I THINK YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS IS IF THE SOLAR PANEL IS ACTUALLY THE SHINGLE ITSELF, IT'S REVIEWED JUST AS A SHINGLE.

IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ANYTHING MORE OR ANYTHING LESS.

THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS MY, MY NEXT QUESTION WAS, WELL IS THAT EVEN AVAILABLE IN THIS COMMUNITY OTHER THAN TESLA? IS IT AVAILABLE? SO WE ACTUALLY RESEARCHED, THERE'S ONE PARTICULAR COMPANY THAT OFFERS, UM, TESLA SHINGLES AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING, AND THIS WAS PROBABLY MAYBE SIX MONTHS AGO SINCE I'VE LAST TALKED TO THEM, BUT THEY'RE LOOKING TO PRODUCE THEIR OWN VERSION OF THE SHINGLE.

SO THE ANSWER IS, IT IS AVAILABLE IN THIS AREA.

THERE IS A COST ASSOCIATED WITH, UM, THAT PRODUCT AND THAT OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS DO ACCOUNT FOR THAT APPLICATION.

SO THOSE ARE THE THREE RESPONSES I WOULD GIVE YOU.

I, I THINK IN SUBDIVISIONS, I THINK MADE A GOOD POINT THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THESE HODGEPODGE THINGS AND IT'S GONNA, WE'RE LOOKING, WE'RE INTERESTED IN AESTHETICS IN MANY CASES IN MOST CASES.

AND I THINK THAT IF WE REQUIRE SOME, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT IT HAS TO LOOK LIKE SHINGLES.

IT HAS TO BE A MATERIAL THAT, UH, IS APPROVED.

I THINK IT'D BE A HUGE IMPROVEMENT.

UM, I, AND, AND I DROVE AROUND BECAUSE I, I, I, YOU KNOW,

[01:40:01]

THEY'RE LIKE A COUPLE FEET FROM THE GUTTERS.

I I, I ALSO THINK IF WE SHOULD, I THINK YOU DO, I READ IN HERE THAT IF WE CAN GET 'EM, PUT 'EM IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, BUT SOME, THEY'LL SAY, WELL, THE SUN DOESN'T FATE, THERE'S A BIG TREE THERE AND THE SUN DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, SHINE ON THAT SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

UM, THAT, THAT WE CAN BE A LOT LOOSER, BUT I THINK IF WE'RE GONNA PUT 'EM ON THE FRONT, I THINK WE SHOULD EXPLORE EVERY MATERIAL POSSIBLE.

DUBLIN'S NEVER BEEN SHY ABOUT REQUIRING EXPENSIVE MATERIALS.

UH, AND I THINK THAT, UH, WE, WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THAT.

SO WHEN WE GO THROUGH DELIBERATION, WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL KIND OF GO DOWN EACH ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.

I THINK MS. NOBLE, YOU'VE FRAMED IT UP VERY WELL.

THE, THE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, GUIDANCE ON THE COLORS SEPARATED FROM THE, UH, THE SHAPE, SO TO SPEAK.

SO IF WE COULD GO BACK TO ANY QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE HAS ON THE COLORS AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO SHAPE.

I THINK THE COLORS WILL HELP.

AGREED.

DO IS, UM, SHOW THEM THE REQUIREMENTS AND LET THEM RESPOND.

I, I THINK IT HELPED.

I, I THINK THE CLOSER WE CAN GET IT TO LOOKING LIKE ROOFING MATERIAL, UH, BUT ESPECIALLY IN SUBDIVISIONS, IF YOU'RE OUT IN THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, NOT AS BAD, BUT ONE ROOF YOU SEE DRIVING SUBDIVISION IN ONE ROOF AFTER ANOTHER.

AND IF YOU KNOW, YOU, UM, I THINK IT TRY TO MAKE IT AS ATTRACTIVE AS POSSIBLE.

ANYWAY.

MR. PELLAND, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YEAH, WHEN WE, UM, IN OUR REVIEW OF OTHER CODES, UM, I GUESS I'M ASKING HOW PREVALENT AND CONSISTENT WAS A, SOMETHING ABOUT COLOR SOMETHING WHAT I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THAT THE WORD COLOR MAY NOT BE EXTREMELY PREVALENT.

I WOULD SAY INTEGRATED IS MORE OF A WORD THAT I SAW.

UM, I THINK THAT THAT'S A FAIR RESPONSE.

GOT IT.

ALL RIGHT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION ON COLOR? ALRIGHT, LET'S BACKTRACK A LITTLE BIT AND, AND GO BACK TO SHAPE.

SO LOOKING AGAIN FOR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION ON SHAPE, MR. CHINOOK.

SO REGARDING THE, THE SHAPE QUESTION MOST LIKE, TO, TO MR. FISHMAN'S POINT, MOST OF THE PANELS DON'T COVER THE ENTIRE ROOF.

IS THAT, I GUESS, WHY IS THAT, THAT QUITE SIMPLE QUESTION.

SO WHY I WOULD SAY EVERYTHING GOES BACK TO EFFICIENCY.

SO IT'S JUST HOW, HOW STEEP IS THE PITCH AND, AND WHERE'S THE SUN ALLOCATION FOR THE MOST PART OF THE DAY AND WHERE CAN THEY GET THE MOST CONSUMPTION OF SUN? UM, I WOULD SAY WE STRUGGLED WITH THIS REQUIREMENT QUITE A BIT.

I THINK THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EVEN A, AN OPACITY REQUIREMENT.

SHOULD IT BE 90% OF A, A SPECIFIC, UH, ROOF LINE IS COVERED WITH SOLAR PANELS.

WE, WE WENT IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AND THIS IS WHERE WE LANDED.

UM, BUT I WOULD SAY EVERYTHING IS SOMEWHAT RELATED TO EFFICIENCY.

SO WAS THAT BASED ON FEEDBACK FROM INSTALLERS, FEEDBACK FROM PROVIDERS? YES.

YES.

MM-HMM AND I'M, I'M BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT, BUT I THINK THAT THE ISSUE THAT MR. FISHMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH PANELS BEING, YOU KNOW, A FOOT OR 18 INCHES SHORT OF THE EDGE OF THE ROOF IS THAT IF THEY'RE SITTING ABOVE THE ROOF BUT GO DOWN TO THE EDGE OF IT, THEY'RE GOING TO SHED WATER OVER YOUR GUTTER INSTEAD OF ONTO THE ROOF AND INTO THE GUTTER.

ADDITIONALLY, YOU TYPICALLY AREN'T WE LOOKING AT KIND OF PRE-MANUFACTURED SIZES.

SO UNLESS YOUR ROOF EXACTLY MATCHES THE DIMENSIONS OF THE PANELS, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE UNDER MR. CHIN.

DO YOU HAVE QUESTION? HAVE ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION ON THE SHAPE.

IS THAT, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE RE REVIEWED BY STAFF ON, I KNOW IT'S A LOT, BUT BECAUSE TO ME IT'S A CASE BY CASE, RIGHT? SO THE EXAMPLES YOU SHOWED, THE ONE IN MY OPINION DIDN'T LOOK GREAT 'CAUSE IT WAS A LITTLE BIT PATCHWORK PIECEMEAL IF WE WANNA CALL IT.

SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE'S A PROVISION WHERE WE COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, SHAPE CAN BE REVIEWED BY STAFF AND THEN WITHIN SOME, SOME SORT OF REASON.

SO IT'S NOT JUST THE HODGEPODGE BECAUSE I, I AGREE WITH THE ISSUE.

I MEAN, I, OR I MEAN I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE.

I SHOULD SAY THAT YOU'VE GOT DEFINITE THINGS ON DIFFERENT ROOFS AND I, I THINK WE WANNA TRY TO ACCOMMODATE PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I GUESS MY OPINION IS THAT WE DON'T WANNA JUST LET YOU KNOW PEOPLE HAVE AT IT AND DO WHAT'S MOST EFFICIENT.

'CAUSE SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T LOOK AESTHETICALLY AS NICE.

ABSOLUTELY.

UM, AND, AND THE ONE THING THAT I WILL SAY, SPECIFIC TO THE SHAPE REQUIREMENT, WE'VE ACTUALLY WORKED QUITE WELL WITH THE COMPANIES AND ESSEN.

ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'LL

[01:45:01]

AND USUALLY THEY'LL COME BACK WITH A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS.

IT'S NOT AS IF, UM, I WOULD SAY THEY MAKE A PROPOSAL AND IT'S YES OR NO, YOU WANT THIS PROPOSAL, IT'S YOU MAY HAVE OPTION A, B OR C.

A IS MORE EFFICIENT, B IS LESS EFFICIENT, AND C YOU MIGHT HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE, UM, WANTING TO INSTALL.

BUT THE POINT BEING IS IT'S NOT A KIND OF ONE SIZE ALL FITS SCENARIO.

AND SO WE'RE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM ON THE SHAPE REQUIREMENT A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THE COLOR.

DOES THAT SUFFICIENTLY GET TO WHAT WE WERE SO SORRY, ONE QUICK.

SO, SO THEN OF, OF THE ONE, I MEAN YOU MENTIONED YOU HAD A 28% APPROVED.

SO THE ONES THAT WEREN'T APPROVED, IS IT MORE ABOUT THE SHAPE OR IS IT MORE ABOUT THE COLOR? IS IT HARD TO, IS IT EVERYTHING ? THE CURRENT APPLICATIONS THAT WE HAVEN'T APPROVED USUALLY INCLUDE BOTH OF THEM.

I WOULD SAY THE COLOR ISSUE IS IT HARDER TO RESOLVE THAN THE SHAPE.

THANK YOU MS. NOBLE.

OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE SHAPE? LET'S DO MR. FISHMAN.

I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT WASN'T SQUARE WHEN I WAS DRIVING AROUND.

I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, I, THAT ONE YOU SHOULD HAVE THE PICTURE OF.

I DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE.

BUT ALSO, UM, I'M GONNA GET OFF A LITTLE BIT THE COLOR.

UM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A TREMENDOUS HELP IF YOU COULD EXACTLY MATCH THE COLOR OF THE SHINGLES, UM, REQUIRE THAT YOU, YOU'RE MENTIONING THAT, UH, UH, OF COURSE BLACK IS BLACK SHINGLES, BUT UH, UM, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STOOD OUT THE MOST AS I DROVE AROUND TODAY IS THAT YOU HAVE A, A REAL POPULAR ROOF IS THAT BROWN AND BEIGE AND YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT BLACK SH THAT BLACK, UH, PANEL SITTING ON TOP OF IT.

I I THINK THAT WAS IT GLARES RIGHT AT YOU.

SO I THINK THAT COULD HELP.

BUT I, I STILL THINK THAT WE SHOULD LOOK AT ALL THE PRODUCTS WITH COLOR AND SHAPE AND, AND AND SEE SOMETHING THAT IS LIKE THE TESLA WHERE IT'S A SHINGLE AND THAT WE COULD REQUIRE, WE REQUIRE A LOT OF THINGS IN DUBLIN THAT OTHER PLACES DON'T.

SO I THINK THAT THAT MAY BE A GOOD SOLUTION.

MR. , DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? NO, MS. HARDER.

I'M JUST CURIOUS, UM, AND MAYBE THIS ISN'T RELATING TO SHAPES, BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW IF IT'S IN WORKING CONDITION OR NOT? 'CAUSE THAT'S SORT OF ONE OF THE ITEMS THERE.

UH, UH, WOULD I EVEN KNOW IT AS A HOMEOWNER BESIDES MY BILL AND SO FORTH? YEAH, WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THAT WHEN WE IMPLEMENTED THE PROVISIONS AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY REQUEST INFORMATION ABOUT THE PRODUCTIVITY.

THERE'S USUALLY AN APP THAT YOU, THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE PRODUCTION ACTIVITY FOR THE SOLAR PANELS AND WHETHER IT'S PRODUCING OR NOT PRODUCING.

UM, OF COURSE WE'RE NEW INTO THIS PROCESS.

WE HAVEN'T ENCOUNTERED THAT QUITE YET.

THERE IS INSPECTION PROCESSES ONCE THE PANELS GET INSTALLED, SO WE AT LEAST WE KNOW ONCE THEY'RE INSTALLED THAT THEY'RE IN WORKING CONDITION.

UM, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S YET TO BE DETERMINED, SO THAT'LL BE ON THE HOMEOWNER TO DO.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU KIND OF START A SERVICE COMING TO YOUR HOUSE AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR, FIRST OF ALL FOR CLEANING.

UM, AND, UH, AND I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD KIND OF SEE IF IT'S IN WORKING ORDER THAT WAY TOO SIMILAR TO SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. UM, SO THAT'S INTERESTING TO ME.

YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON SHAPE IN OUR PUBLIC MEETINGS THAT, THAT WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN PART OF? WE'VE HEARD SOME FEEDBACK FROM, UM, FROM THE PUBLIC ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, BUT IN THE MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN PRESENT ON, WAS THERE SIGNIFICANT CONCERN ON EITHER ONE OF THOSE TOPICS? WAS THERE CON SIGNIFICANT CONCERN, ONE VERSUS THE OTHER? UM, FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC, I WOULD SAY NOT.

AND WITH FAIRNESS TO THAT RESPONSE, IT WAS VERY MUCH UP UNTIL THE ADOPTION, IT WAS VERY MUCH, UH, FOCUSED ON THE FRONT FACADE.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE IS WE'RE STARTING TO HEAR THOSE KIND OF COMMENTS.

AND THERE'S, LET'S JUST SAY IF, IF COLOR, IF I'M GONNA, THIS IS JUST A GENERAL CALCULATION, BUT LET'S SAY A FOURTH OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS CAN MATCH THE COLOR, THAT'S THE REMAINING PART THAT CAN'T MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.

SO THAT'S WHY, THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE'RE HERE.

THANK YOU MS. NOBLE.

ALRIGHT, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE'LL TURN SOME TIME OVER FOR A PUBLIC COMMENT.

IF ANYONE WISHES TO SPEAK TO THE COMMISSION ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, WE WOULD INVITE YOU TO THE MICROPHONE.

IF YOU COME FORWARD, PLEASE PRESS THE BUTTON TO ENABLE THE MICROPHONE.

YOU'LL SEE THE GREEN LIGHT GO ON.

AND THEN PLEASE STATE

[01:50:01]

WELL, HI EVERYONE.

UM, MY NAME IS JERRY KKI.

I'M, UH, 4 3 1 3 WIND AT WOODS BOULEVARD.

UH, MY SPOUSE, LEE AND I HAVE LIVED IN DUBLIN FOR ABOUT 30 YEARS.

UM, THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS.

OUR VERY RECENT EXPERIENCE WITH INSTALLING SOCIAL SOLAR, SOLAR PANELS ON OUR FAMILY HOME, UH, OHIO POWER SOLUTIONS, FINISHED THE INSTALLATION YESTERDAY.

UH, MINE IS THE VERY UGLY ONE THAT YOU GUYS WERE CRITICIZING.

THE PATCHWORK ONE THOUGH.

SO THANKS FOR YOUR, YOU KNOW, SUPPORT OF THAT.

I, I I, THE, THE SHAPE IS THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE OF THE TRIANGULAR REQUIREMENTS AND THE FACT THAT THAT THAT'S, THEY REJECTED OUR ORIGINAL PLAN.

UM, YOU KNOW, SO I, WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING TO KIND OF GET IT, TO GET IT DONE.

UM, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, IT'S THE RESULT OF YOUR RULES.

UM, SO, UM, I, I THINK THIS MEANS THAT LEE AND I ARE AMONG THE VERY FIRST FEW RESIDENTS WITH SUCCESSFUL EXPERIENCE IN NAVIGATING THE SOLAR ORDINANCE, UH, THAT WAS APPROVED IN JUNE.

AND I'D LIKE TO JUST SHARE SOME OF OUR EXPERIENCES WITH YOU.

UH, BUT BEFORE I GET TO THAT, UM, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO SHARE, UH, JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS, UH, CLARIFY SOME, UH, ABOUT THE NEW SOLAR, ABOUT THE, THE PURPOSE OF THIS.

UH, DUBLIN CITY COUNCIL'S VISIONARY GOALS SAY THAT THE CITY ASPIRES TO BE A SUSTAINABLE, RESILIENT, AND CONNECTED GLOBAL CITY OF CHOICE.

UM, THE COUNCIL AND THE CITY STAFF SHOULD GET A LOT OF CREDIT FOR CREATING SUCH IMPORTANT GOALS THAT ADDRESS IMPORTANT GLOBAL ISSUES IN WAYS THAT RELATE TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

UM, ANY REASONABLE DEFINITION OF SUSTAINABLE AND RESILIENT, I THINK SHOULD INCLUDE AGGRESSIVE POLICIES TO CHANGE THE STATUS QUO AND REDUCE THE BARRIERS TO SOLAR INSTALLATIONS AND OTHER RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES LIKE GEOTHERMAL SYSTEMS AND SMALL WIND TURBINES.

I I HAVE TO THINK THAT THE CITY'S GOAL IN TAKING ON THE CHALLENGE OF CREATING A NEW RENEWABLE ENERGY ORDINANCE WAS JUST THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS FINDING THE RIGHT KIND OF REGULATION FOR THESE DISTRIBUTED ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES, WHICH ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN TODAY'S WORLD TO ADDRESS THE, THE CARBON ISSUE, RIGHT? AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

UH, THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY BEGINS BY SAYING THE PURPOSE OF THIS SECTION IS TO PROMOTE SUSTAINABLE ENVIRONMENTAL PRACTICES AND STEWARDSHIP.

IT ALSO SAYS THAT PROMOTING RENEWABLE ENERGY IS AN INTENTIONAL OBJECTIVE OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN.

AND THESE REGULATIONS PROMOTE THE INSTALLATION OF SOLAR ENERGY AMONG OTHER RENEWABLE ENERGY PRACTICES IN THE MOST EFFECTIVE METHOD POSSIBLE.

THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS PASSED.

UH, LITTLE PARTICLES IN IT THAT TRIES TO MAKE A CONTRAST BETWEEN THE TWO SO THAT IT STANDS OUT AND LOOKS DIMENSIONAL.

UM, THESE ARE IMPORTANT GOALS AND, AND I HAVE TO SAY THESE ARE EXTRAORDINARILY POWERFUL STATEMENTS THAT THE CITY HAS MADE.

HOWEVER, THE ORDINANCE CONTAINS OTHER LANGUAGE, OPPOSITIONAL LANGUAGE THAT IMPOSES DIFFICULT OR EVEN EXCLUSIONARY CONDITIONS FOR INSTALLATION.

LIKE WHAT? WELL, ONE THING IS THE ARTIFICIAL REQUIREMENT THAT PANELS BE INSTALLED IN A RECTANGULAR SHAPE TO AVOID COMPLEX AND NON-SYMMETRICAL CONFIGURATIONS.

ANOTHER IS ROOF MOUNTED EQUIPMENT SHALL BE A COLOR THAT'S SIMILAR TO THE ROOF COLOR.

THESE CONDITIONS NEED TO HAVE SOME TRANSPARENCY AND FLEXIBILITY BUILT INTO THEM TO MAKE THEM MORE UNDERSTANDABLE AND WORKABLE.

UM, AS FAR AS I KNOW, MOST SOLAR PANELS PRODUCED IN THE WORLD ARE BLACK, BUT BLACK ROOFS ARE HIGHLY UNDESIRABLE FROM THE ENVIRONMENTAL PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE THEY ABSORB HEAT AND INCREASE THE HOME'S AIR CONDITIONING LOAD.

IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE ROOF BLACK, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE EVEN MORE PANELS THAN YOU WOULD'VE HAD BEFORE JUST TO RUN THE AIR CONDITIONING MORE.

UM, ESPECIALLY IN THE SUMMERTIME.

THESE ARE, THERE ARE VARIOUS COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS THAT MIGHT SOUND REASONABLE, UH, TO THE ISSUES OF COLOR, BUT THEY'RE NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

AS, AS I THINK WE'VE HEARD.

UH, I CAN JUST SAY A COUPLE MORE THINGS ABOUT IT.

UH, ONE EXAMPLE OF THESE PROBLEMS WITH THESE SOLAR SKINS.

FIRST, THEY'RE VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE.

MAYBE A HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR EACH PANEL.

UH, YEAH, OUR, MY HOUSE HAS NOW 31 PANELS ON IT.

UM, YOU KNOW, $3,100 FOR WHAT I MEAN FOR A PRODUCT THAT IS NOT GONNA LAST VERY LONG.

[01:55:01]

FUNCTION.

AND, UH, THEIR USE WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY, AND THIS IS I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT.

THEIR USE WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY VOID MANY IF NOT ALL PRODUCT WARRANTIES.

I LOOKED UP MINE.

UM, AND, UH, IT SAYS IF YOU ADD OTHER THINGS TO IT, YOUR WARRANTY WOULD BE VOIDED.

NOW THE PARTICULAR PANELS THAT WE HAVE ARE, HAVE A 25 YEAR WARRANTY.

OKAY? SO YOU'RE GONNA PUT A THING THAT MAYBE COULD LAST 10 YEARS OR, AND IT'S GONNA AVOID MY WARRANTY, WHICH I REALLY AM GONNA NEED FOR THE NEXT NUMBER OF YEARS.

UM, SO I JUST DON'T THINK THOSE ARE FUNCTIONAL, FUNCTIONAL SOLUTIONS TO THIS.

UM, SO, UM, THERE ARE ALSO CERTAIN PRACTICAL REALITIES TO CONSIDER WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT CREATING A SOLAR ROOF.

UM, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA IS NOT JUST TO LIKE MATCH THE SHAPE OF THE ROOF OR COVER THE WHOLE ROOF WITH PANEL, THAT THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WOULD BE DONE.

UM, THERE'S COUPLE OF THINGS TO CONSIDER.

FIRST, ROOFS ARE ONLY SO LARGE AND SO EVERY INCH OF IT IS ACTUALLY POTENTIALLY VALUABLE.

BUT THE BACK ROOFS OF MOST RESIDENCES ARE PLACES WHERE BUILDERS PUT THIS UNSIGHTLY STUFF THAT THEY DON'T WANNA PUT ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

PLUMBING STACKS, RIGHT ON MITIGATION PIPES, WHICH ARE REQUIRED BY THE CITY, BY THE WAY.

UM, CHIMNEYS FOR HOT WATER HEATERS, BATHROOM FAN VENTS TO NAME JUST A FEW THINGS.

A SOLAR DESIGNER TRIES TO USE THE AVAILABLE SPACE TO GENERATE ENOUGH ELECTRICITY FOR THE PROJECT TO POWER THE HOUSE, UH, WHILE MEETING THE, YOU KNOW, WHILE MEETING THE ENERGY NEEDS OF THE, OF THE FAMILY.

UM, THIS VARIES A LOT BY THE NUMBER OF OCCUPANTS TYPE OF HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS AND USE MANY OTHER VARIABLES.

THE MOST EFFICIENT PLACEMENT OF PANELS ALMOST CERTAINLY IS NOT GONNA BE REGULAR RECTANGULAR, SQUARE, WHATEVER.

UM, AND THE PANELS ARE PRETTY MUCH OF THE SAME SIZE AND NEED TO BE IN PLACES WHERE THE SUN SHINES ON A ROOF MOST OF THE DAY, WHICH IS TYPICALLY GONNA BE THE SOUTH SIDE OF A ROOF.

THE NUMBER OF PANELS, I HAVE TO SAY IS NOT ARBITRARY.

UM, SOLAR SYSTEMS ARE TYPICALLY DESIGNED LIKE OURS, WAS TO PROVIDE AN AGGREGATE OVER THE YEARS' TIME THE ELECTRICITY THAT WE WOULD USE IN A YEAR.

AND AEP HAS A RULE THAT YOU CAN ONLY HAVE AS MUCH AS 120% OF YOUR USE.

I MEAN, YOU CAN'T GO ABOVE THAT.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO FILL THE WHOLE ROOF WITH PANELS.

YOU'D HAVE TO TURN MOST OF 'EM, YOU'D HAVE TO TURN SOME OF 'EM OFF IF YOU WERE GENERATING MORE THAN 120%.

UM, THAT DOESN'T, THAT WOULDN'T BE FUNCTIONAL 'CAUSE THEY'RE EXPENSIVE.

UM, SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE WAY IT WORKS IS SOME DAYS YOU'RE GONNA USE MORE ELECTRICITY THAN YOU GENERATE OTHER DAYS, THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

SO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR, SOME MONTHS YOU'LL GET A BILL.

SOME MONTHS YOU'LL HAVE A SURPLUS, AND AT THE END OF THE YEAR YOU HOPE IT'LL AVERAGE OUT TO ZERO.

YOUR TOTAL BILL WOULD BE ZERO.

UM, NOW IN MY CASE, WE NEEDED 33 PANELS ESTIMATED FOR THAT.

UM, I HAD TO KNOCK OFF TWO BECAUSE OF THE , THE SHAPE RULE AND ALL THAT.

UM, SO WE ENDED UP WITH, UH, 31 PANELS.

WELL THAT'S GONNA, THAT'S GONNA LEAVE ME WITH A DEFICIT OF SOLAR PRODUCTION, AND THAT'S BEFORE WE ACQUIRE A ELECTRIC VEHICLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY INCREASE THE, THE USE QUITE A BIT.

UM, SO I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO ADD MORE TO THIS, UM, AT SOME POINT.

SO, UM, IF YOU DON'T GET THE ZERO ELECTRIC BILL, THEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA, THAT WOULD MINIMIZE IF YOU GET THAT, YOU'RE GONNA MINIMIZE THE SPENDING ON ELECTRIC ELECTRICITY AND THAT MAKES THE PROJECT WORTHWHILE.

UH, IF YOU CAN'T GET IT, THEN IT NEGATES SOME OF THEIR KEY REASONS FOR BUILDING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

UM, SO IN OUR CASE, YOU KNOW, WE PRESENTED A PLAN FOR 33 PANELS.

UH, IT WAS REJECTED BECAUSE OF THE SHAPE IN RESPONSE, OUR INSTALLER CHANGED THE PLAN TO FOUR RECTANGULAR SHAPES AND THE COST OF ONLY BEING ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE 31 PANELS.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A AESTHETIC TAX THAT IS PUT ON, UM, KNOCKING OFF TWO PANELS FOR AESTHETIC PURPOSES, INTERFERES WITH OUR GOALS FOR ZERO ELECTRIC BILLS AND REQUIRES US TO CONTINUE TO DRAW NON-RENEWABLE POWER FROM AEPS ELECTRIC GRID.

UH, COLOR WAS THE OTHER STICKING POINT.

UM, OUR SHINGLES ARE GAF HD TIMBERLINE IN WEATHER WOOD COLOR.

UM, THIS COLOR AND TYPE IN FACT ARE I THINK THE MOST COMMONLY USED SHINGLES IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE SHINGLES THEMSELVES ARE BLACK AND GRAY, WHICH IS THE WAY THEY LOOK IN MOST LIGHT CONDITIONS.

THEY'RE DESIGNED TO APPEAR HIGHLY DIMENSIONAL.

SO THAT PART OF THE SHINGLE IS BLACK, REALLY BLACK, AND THEN THERE'S A PART NEXT TO IT, WHICH IS LIKE GRAY AND HAS SOME OTHER LIGHTER,

[02:00:01]

THAT'S A REALLY NICE THING ACTUALLY.

THESE ARE, THESE ARE GOOD SHINGLES.

UM, AND, UM, SO, SO WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT, UM, THEY'RE DESIGNED TO APPEAR DIMENSIONAL BY CONTRASTING THE LIGHT AND DARK COLORS.

UM, THEY DO PROVIDE A GOOD APPEARANCE, AND I THINK THEY LOOK ACTUALLY LOOK GREAT AGAINST THE BLACK PANELS.

BUT THE PLANT EXAMINER REJECTED THEM ADVISING US TO FIND A NEW, A NEW ROOF COLOR.

YOU KNOW, ONE GUY DOWN THE STREET FROM ME JUST PUT IN NEW SOLAR PANELS ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO, UH, ABOUT A WEEK BEFORE HE STARTED THE WHOLE PROJECT.

HE TORE EVERY SHINGLE OFF HIS HOUSE AND REPLACED THE ENTIRE ROOF.

I MEAN, IT'S PHENOMENALLY EXPENSIVE THING JUST TO BE ABLE TO PUT NEW SOLAR PANELS ON YOUR HOUSE IN ADDITION.

UM, THAT'S A BIG, THAT'S A BIG BURDEN.

UM, UH, SO I POINTED OUT THAT THE CITY HAD APPROVED ROOFS FOR SOLAR EQUIPMENT THAT CONTAINED NOT GAF, BUT OWEN'S CORNING DRIFTWOOD SHINGLES AND PROVIDED SOME EVIDENCE THAT THESE ARE THE FUNCTIONALLY THE SAME SHINGLES THAT WE HAVE, UH, THAT ARE OFTEN USED.

UH, AND THEY'RE USED INTERCHANGEABLY AROUND THE COUNTRY.

UH, YOU KNOW, IN STORM DAMAGE YOU CAN'T GET THIS ONE KIND.

THEY PUT THE OTHER ONE ON AND PEOPLE CAN'T REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

UM, SO I, I SHARED THE PICTURES OF OUR ROOF WITH, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER CRAM PASSED THEM ALONG TO THE CITY MANAGER MEGAN OC CALLAHAN.

I TOOK SOME PHOTOS AND OF THE ADDRESSES OF HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR SOLAR PANELS, UH, WITH OWEN'S CORNING DRIFTWOOD SHINGLES, THEY LOOK REALLY SIMILAR TO MY ROOF.

UM, I, I WANNA GIVE THE CITY REALLY HIGH MARKS, UH, FOR, UH, RESPONSIVENESS.

THE FOLLOWING DAY WE RECEIVED OUR, OUR APPROVAL.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THAT WAS, HOW THAT WAS DONE, AND I'M NOT ASKING, I'M JUST VERY GRATEFUL FOR IT.

UM, ALTHOUGH WE COULD NOT ADDITIONALLY PUT UP ALL THE PANELS WE WANTED, OUR SOLAR INSTALLER TOLD US THAT HE HAD AN OPENING IN HIS SCHEDULE AND THAT IF WE DIDN'T DO IT, LIKE RIGHT NOW, IT WOULDN'T BE DONE THIS YEAR.

UH, SO, UH, SO WE DECLARED VICTORY, UM, SURRENDERED AND, UM, AND SIGNED A CHANGE ORDER TO REDUCE THE PROJECT BY TWO PANELS.

AND WORKMAN BEGAN THE WORK ON MONDAY.

UM, THEY FINISHED THE PROJECT YESTERDAY AFTERNOON.

UH, THERE ARE A COUPLE MORE HURDLES TO CLEAR CITY ZONING AND ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS AND CERTIFYING SOME FEATURES OF THE SYSTEM TO AEP AWARDING THEIR, AWAITING THEIR INSTALLATION OF THE REQUIRED, UH, METER THAT DOES THE NET METERING.

THAT IS, IN OTHER WORDS, IT RUNS, RUNS IN ONE DIRECTION WHEN YOU'RE BUYING POWER OFF THE WEB OR OFF THE, THE GRID.

AND THEN WHEN YOU'RE PRODUCING MORE, IT'S SPINS THE OTHER WAY TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE SELLING POWER TO AEP.

UM, SO HOPEFULLY WITHIN A FEW WEEKS WE'LL BE GENERATING OUR OWN ELECTRICITY, UH, TO WRAP UP.

UH, I FIND IT HARD TO SEE THE CITY'S INTEREST IN REGULATING THE SPECIFIC PLACEMENT OF THESE PANELS GIVEN THAT THEY, THAT THEY WENT ON THE BACK OF OUR HOUSE AND FACES A HEAVILY WOODED CITY OWNED AREA THAT'S TOTALS ABOUT 40 ACRES OF TREES.

NOBODY'S EVER GONNA SEE THESE THINGS, INCLUDING MY NEIGHBORS.

UM, THE APPROVED DESIGN IS LESS EFFICIENT THAN IT COULD BE IN TERMS OF THE ROOF SPACE IT OCCUPIES.

UH, AND IT TOOK A LOT OF EFFORT ON MY PART TO TRACK DOWN THE NAMES SPECIFICATIONS, CORRECT SHINGLE SAMPLE, TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE OUR CASE REGARDING THE COLOR.

I WAS IN A PANIC THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THIS AT ALL.

I MEAN, IT'S LIKE ONE THING TO KNOCK OFF TWO PANELS, BUT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR, WE WOULD HAVE ZERO PANELS.

AND THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE TO ME.

UM, SO, UM, MY RECOMMENDATION IS IF THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE, IF YOU REALLY FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THE NEED FOR AESTHETIC CONSIDERATIONS, THAT IS THAT THE ORDINANCES, SHAPE AND COLOR RULES APPLY ONLY TO PROJECTS DESTINED FOR THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE THAT FACES A PUBLIC STREET.

I THINK THAT YOU CAN SAFELY DEREGULATE THE BACK OF HOUSES FOR THIS SOLAR PANEL ISSUE.

THIS WILL ALLOW A VAST MAJORITY OF CASES TO PROCEED EFFICIENTLY WITH MINIMAL TO NO DEGRADATION OF THE CITY'S OVERALL APPEARANCE.

UM, CITY IS NOW SET, UH, NOW SET A NOW HAS A SET OF RULES THAT ON PAPER, IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY FOLLOWED CAREFULLY, UH, MIGHT BE THE MOST RESTRICTIVE RULES IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THE PHILOSOPHY IS THAT I STARTED MY TALK TODAY ABOUT.

IT SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED, NOT DISCOURAGED.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THIS WAS THE CITY'S INTENT.

I HOPE THAT SHARING SOME OF OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH THIS IS

[02:05:01]

HOPEFUL TO YOUR DELIVER, HELPFUL TO YOUR DELIBERATIONS.

FINALLY, I DO WANNA SPECIFICALLY THANK CITY MANAGER, EARL CALLAHAN, COUNCILMAN CRAM, AND OTHER CITY STAFF WHO'VE TAKEN AN INTEREST IN WHAT WE WERE DOING.

WE DID GET THE PROJECT INSTALLED, AND WE ARE GRATEFUL.

WE DEARLY LOVE OUR CITY AND WE WANNA SEE IT TO BE AS SUCCESSFUL AS POSSIBLE.

SO THANKS FOR YOUR ATTENTION THIS EVENING.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

JERRY.

ARE THERE OTHER PEOPLE HERE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? AND I, I, I DIDN'T WANNA INTERRUPT YOUR, YOUR PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT OUR RULES AND REGULATIONS, I APOLOGIZE.

OUR TIMER IS BROKEN, BUT OUR RULES AND REGULATIONS STATE THAT NO PUBLIC COMMENT SHOULD EXCEED FIVE MINUTES, SO.

GOTCHA.

I'M JASON DIEHL.

UM, I LIVE, UH, MCDAVID COURT, UM, WHICH IS OVER BY, UH, KAUFMAN.

UM, JUST A COUPLE THINGS, UM, WARREN FOR YOU, UM, IT'S BY CODE THAT ALL PANELS HAVE TO BE A MINIMUM OF 18 INCHES FROM THE EDGE OF THE ROOF.

THAT'S, UH, PER BUILDING CODES.

SO THAT'S NOT, UH, NEGOTIABLE.

UM, THE OTHER THING WITH, WE'VE LOOKED INTO, UH, WE'VE ACTUALLY BEEN DOING, LOOKING INTO SOLAR FOR OVER TWO YEARS, AND TAMMY'S TALKED WITH ME QUITE A FEW TIMES.

WE'VE LOOKED INTO A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

UH, THE TESLA FOR OUR ROOF, IT'S NOT A HUGE HOUSE, 75 TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR THE TESLA ROOF.

AND TO SAVE THREE OR $4,000 A YEAR, IT JUST DOESN'T REALLY MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE.

THE SAME THING GOES WITH, WE'VE TRIED TO LOOK AT CHANGING THE COLOR OF THE ROOF.

I'VE CONTACTED A BUNCH OF FOLKS, THEY WON'T CHANGE THE COLOR UNLESS YOU REPLACE THE WHOLE ROOF, $25,000.

UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, NOT, IT'S KIND OF NOT VERY SUSTAINABLE, UH, FOR A CITY.

IT'S REALLY WASTES A WHOLE LOT OF STUFF, OBVIOUSLY.

UM, WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE ROOFS THAT FACES THE STREET.

UH, WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE ROOFS THAT'S COLOR PALETTE ON THE BOTTOM ROW THERE.

THAT'S KIND OF MAYBE TO BE DETERMINED.

THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC IF WE CAN GET SOME GUIDANCE ON THERE.

UM, I ALSO BROUGHT THE SOLAR SKIN INFORMATION OVER TO TAMMY.

'CAUSE WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THREE DIFFERENT COMPANIES.

WE PAID FOR 'EM MORE THAN TWO YEARS AGO.

ONE OF 'EM WENT, UH, BANKRUPT.

SO IT'S BEEN AWESOME.

UM, AND, UH, SO THE SOLAR SKINS DECREASE.

THEY DO DECREASE, UH, ABOUT 15% PRODUCTIVITY, UM, YOU KNOW, MATCHES THE COLOR EXACTLY TO THE ROOF, UH, WHICH I BELIEVE WOULD MEET ALL THE CODE NEEDS IF, IF, IF THINGS CAN GO THROUGH.

UM, IT'S, IT'S JUST A, BEEN A BIG CHALLENGE.

UM, OBVIOUSLY ALL OF DUBLIN HAS REALLY STAND UP AND SAID, WE LIKE SOLAR.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S AT LEAST WHAT THE SURVEY SAID.

UM, AND HE'S RIGHT.

THESE SOLAR RESTRICTIONS ARE INCREDIBLY LIMITING.

UM, MY WIFE AND I WALKED AROUND TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE HAVE 80 HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND, UH, THREE CURRENTLY HAVE SOLAR.

UM, WITH THE NEW REGULATIONS NOW, ONLY ONE OF 'EM WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO BE INSTALLED.

UM, AND OUT OF THE 80 HOUSES, UM, 70, 70, 70 OF 'EM WOULD BE EXCLUDED.

UM, WITH THESE CURRENT REGULATIONS, BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EIGHT HOUSES THAT ARE BLACK ROOF AND A COUPLE OTHERS THAT ARE, UM, ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THAT DARK COLOR.

SO, UM, I THINK WE REALLY DO NEED TO, YOU KNOW, USE SOME COMMON SENSE TO OPEN THIS UP TO MORE PEOPLE.

SO IF WE'RE GONNA EXCLUDE, YOU KNOW, 87% OF HOUSES BASED ON COLOR IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD ALONE, THAT'S A HUGE NUMBER.

AND THAT IS CLEARLY NOT, DOESN'T BRING DUBLIN TO BE A VERY SUSTAINABLE, UH, AND GREEN COMMUNITY, IN MY OPINION.

SO LESS THAN FIVE.

THANK YOU, MR. NEIL.

ANYONE ELSE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM? PLEASE STEP FORWARD.

STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

UH, HI, MY NAME'S JAKE TRIBIANO.

I LIVE AT 95 LONGVIEW DRIVE.

UM, FIRST OFF, I'D, I'D LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU TO TAMMY FOR ALL OF HER HARD WORK, UH, WITH EVERYTHING SHE'S PUT TOGETHER AND, AND FOR ALL YOU GUYS, UH, WORKING HARD TONIGHT TO, UH, KEEP DUBLIN SUCH A GREAT CITY.

UM, I AM ONE OF THE, THE MANY, UM, RECENT HOMEOWNERS WHO HAVE BEEN DENIED, UH, ACCESS TO SOLAR ENERGY DUE TO THE, BOTH THE COLOR OF THE ROOF AND THE SHAPE OF THE SOLAR PANELS THAT MY ARRAY WOULD BE IN.

AND, UH, IF IT WAS, IF IT WAS THE OLD CODE, I WOULD'VE BEEN APPROVED NO PROBLEM AT ALL.

AND SOUNDS LIKE THE TWO GENTLEMEN BEFORE ME AS WELL WOULD'VE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM.

IT'S ON THE BACK OF MY HOUSE, LITERALLY, NOBODY CAN SEE IT.

UM, BUT WITH THE NEW CODE, WITH THE, THE COLOR REQUIREMENTS AND THE RECTANGULAR SHAPE REQUIREMENTS BEING APPLICABLE TO ALL ROOF FACES AS OPPOSED TO JUST THE FRONT, IT IMMEDIATELY ELIMINATES MY PROJECT.

I CAN'T EVEN PUT UP ONE PANEL UP BECAUSE I HAVE A GRAY ROOF THAT ISN'T DEEMED, UH, SIMILAR IN COLOR TO BLACK.

SO, UM, I I ALSO HAVE A, A, A BIT OF A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE.

I'VE WORKED IN THE SOLAR INDUSTRY FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS, AND I'VE WORKED WITH A LOT OF COMMUNITIES HERE LOCALLY ON THEIR FIRST, UM, THEIR FIRST, UH, STREET FACING SOLAR RESIDENTIAL SOLAR INSTALLATIONS, UH, BEXLEY GRANBY, UH, HEIGHTS,

[02:10:01]

TO NAME A FEW.

AND WITH, WITH DUBLIN'S, UH, PURPOSE STATEMENT OF THIS CODE, AND WITH OUR VISION AS A CITY TO BE SUSTAINABLE, RESILIENT, AND FOR THIS CODE TO PROMOTE SOLAR ENERGY, I THINK A REALLY SIMPLE SOLUTION THAT THOSE, UH, JURISDICTIONS HAVE ADOPTED THAT I, THAT I THINK WORKS VERY WELL IS JUST THE, THE CODE THAT WE HAD BEFORE WE CHANGED IT, RIGHT? WHERE IF IT'S ON THE REAR OR THE BACK OF A HOUSE WHERE IT'S NOT STREET FACING, IT'S NOT LOOKING AT THE PUBLIC, UH, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO SOLAR.

THERE'S, THERE'S NOT, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THE, THE, THE COLOR FRAMING AND, AND THAT TYPE OF AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS, BUT NOTHING TOO CRAZY.

BUT IF IT'S ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, UH, HOW, HOW THEY DID IT WAS, IT GOES, IF IT'S ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, NO MATTER WHAT, IT GOES TO THE, UH, THE ARB.

SO ANY HOUSE THAT'S REQUESTING SOLAR ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, IT GOES THROUGH LIKE ITS OWN REVIEW PROCESS, INDIVIDUAL REVIEW PROCESS, WHERE IT'S NOT JUST LIKE A BLACK OR WHITE, UM, ANSWER.

AND I KNOW THAT THAT MIGHT NOT BE THE, THE, THE SOLUTION THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.

'CAUSE THAT THAT DOES ADD CERTAINLY ADD ADDS WORKLOAD TO YOU GUYS.

UM, BUT I, I'VE SEEN THAT WORK REALLY WELL.

UH, I, I DON'T SEE, AND I, AND I THINK IT'S HARD TO FIND A JUSTIFICATION FOR DENYING PEOPLE LIKE MY, MYSELF AND, AND THE PEOPLE, UH, THAT WE HEARD BEFORE US TODAY ACCESS TO SOLAR WHEN NO ONE CAN EVEN SEE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, UM, WHEN IT'S NOT LOOKING IN THE BACK OF YOUR HOUSE, RIGHT? SO, UM, I'M, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

I KNOW YOU GUYS HAD A COUPLE GREAT QUESTIONS ABOUT LIKE HOW SOLAR ENERGY WORKS.

HAPPY TO, UH, ANSWER ANY OF THOSE IF YOU GUYS HAVE, HAVE, UH, ANY QUESTIONS.

BUT ALSO THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU, MR. IAN.

ANYONE ELSE HERE FROM THE PUB? PLEASE STEP FORWARD.

WAIT UNTIL THE GREEN LIGHT IS ON.

PRESS THE BUTTON, WAIT UNTIL THE GREEN LIGHT IS ON, ON THE MICROPHONE, AND THEN STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

IT'S THE LIGHT ON.

I DID BRING A COPY OF THE, UM, ARTICLE OUT OF THE COLUMBUS MONTHLY MAGAZINE, AND I'D LIKE TO LEAVE IT WITH YOU IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT OR YOU HAVEN'T READ THE, UH, REPORT FROM AEP BECAUSE A-E-P-A-E-P HAD TO REPORT TO THE PUCO, UM, WHY THERE WAS A ROLLING OUT OUTAGE.

MY NAME IS ROBERT REED.

I LIVE AT 73 57 CHRISTIE CHAPEL, WHICH IS IN THE ARLINGTON SUBDIVISION.

UM, JUST DOWN THE ROAD.

UM, I ONLY NEEDED 11 SOLAR PANELS BASED ON MY ELECTRIC USAGE FOR THE PAST 12 MONTHS.

AND WHAT THE, UM, WHAT THE SOLAR COMPANY TOLD ME WAS THAT, UM, OR TO COME UP WITH THE NUMBER OF PANELS THAT YOU NEED.

THEY TOOK MY ELECTRIC BILLS FOR THE PAST 12 MONTHS AND I DID THE SAME THING, RAN THEM OFF.

AND, UM, SO I ONLY NEEDED 11 PANELS.

NOW IT'S JUST MY WIFE AND MYSELF.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UM, CARS THAT ARE ELECTRIC.

WE DON'T HAVE A SWIMMING POOL OR ANYTHING ELSE OF PULLS, UH, POWER.

THAT'S WHY I ONLY NEEDED 11.

MY PROBLEM WAS THAT 11 DOESN'T MAKE THE TRIANGLE.

MY OPTION WAS TAKE ONE AWAY.

NOW I'M NOT GOING TO BE EFFICIENT OR ADD ONE, WHICH IS GONNA COST ME.

SO WE ADDED ONE.

UM, DIDN'T SEE WHERE THAT WAS QUITE FAIR IN THAT I DIDN'T NEED IT, BUT I WAS FORCED BECAUSE OF THE NEW REGULATIONS.

IF I HAD HAD THIS INSTALLED ALMOST A YEAR AGO, NO PROBLEM AT ALL.

BUT, UH, BECAUSE OF THE REGULATIONS THAT WENT INTO EFFECT, UH, JULY, WHATEVER IT WAS, UM, I WAS FORCED TO DO THIS.

THE ONLY REASON THAT I ACTUALLY DID IT WAS BECAUSE LAST YEAR WE HAD A ROLLING OUTAGE ACROSS THE CITY.

AND, UM, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE COLUMBUS MONTHLY MAGAZINE THAT ACTUALLY OUTLINED THE REPORT.

ACTUALLY, IT WAS THE REPORT, AND IT STATED THAT, UM, AEP DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH POWER.

THEY'RE BRINGING IT IN, AND THAT'S WHERE THE COST IS, UH, CAUSING OUR POWER, OUR ELECTRIC BILLS TO GO UP.

AEP ASKED FOR 30%, UH, FOR THE YEAR OF 23, AND THEY GOT IT.

UM, NOW 30% INCREASE.

THEY'VE ASKED FOR A, UM, INCREASE FOR THE YEAR OF 24, HASN'T BEEN APPROVED YET, BUT THEY'LL GET IT.

WHAT THE POINT IS, IS THAT WHEN THE PERSON CAME TO MY HOUSE AND WAS TELLING ME ALL OF THIS, I THOUGHT, OKAY, FOR ME, A 12 MONTH AVERAGE WAS 150 SOME ODD DOLLARS A MONTH.

IF I DID THE MONTHLY THING, NOW MY PAYMENT IS ONLY $110.

WELL, I THOUGHT, OKAY, I'VE GOTTA PAY AN ELECTRIC BILL ANYWAY, SO I'LL JUST GET THESE PANELS.

WELL, THE WORST MISTAKE IN MY LIFE, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A HASSLE AND I'VE HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN AND KNEW THAT WHAT I KNOW NOW WOULDN'T DO IT.

BUT, UM, JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT WITH YOU.

[02:15:01]

AND IT TELLS YOU WHY.

AND IT TELLS YOU THAT AS A COUNTRY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GENERATE SOME ADDITIONAL POWER, AND IT'S GOTTA BE SOLAR OR WHATEVER ELSE.

BUT, UM, TRYING TO, UH, GET IT FROM, UM, YOU KNOW, THESE POWER PLANTS, THAT'S NOT GONNA SUSTAIN US, UH, AS A COUNTRY.

THANK YOU, MR. BUT, UM, I'LL PASS THIS ON TO TAMMY.

TAMMY'S BEEN EXTREMELY HELPFUL TO ME BECAUSE, UM, WHEN MY COMPANY TOLD ME THAT, UH, I WAS DENIED BECAUSE OF COLOR OF THE ROOF, I THOUGHT, NO, THESE GUYS ARE JUST TRYING TO BLOW SMOKE UP MY TAIL.

BUT, UH, AFTER TALKING TO TAMMY AND SHE PRINTED OFF THE NEW REGULATIONS, YEAH, YOU WERE RIGHT.

BUT, UH, DO, DO GIVE THE, UH, SHAPE A LITTLE MORE CONSIDERATION BECAUSE, UM, THE ADD AN ADDITIONAL PANEL WHEN YOU REALLY DIDN'T NEED IT, UH, DIDN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, AESTHETICALLY, UH, I'M NOW IN, UM, WITHIN THE REGULATIONS JUST INSTALLED LAST MONDAY.

THANK YOU, MR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ANYONE ELSE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH TO MAKE COMMENT? YOUR MIC IS ON.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

UH, GERARD LINSKY, 49 0 5 CROS DRIVE IN BRANDON.

UH, FIRST I'D LIKE TO, UM, UH, THANK TAMMY.

I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HER, TALKING TO HER OVER THE LAST WEEK OR TWO.

UM, I BELIEVE OUR PERMIT WAS APPROVED TODAY.

SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S GREAT NEWS.

AND I JUST WANNA BRING A FEW MORE THINGS TO THE, TO THE FOREFRONT FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT WITH, UH, THE CURRENT REGULATIONS.

AND ONE OF THOSE REALLY WITH THE RECTANGULAR, UM, THE REQUIREMENT FOR RECTANGULAR, UM, ARRAYS OF PANELS IS THAT ACTUALLY THAT REQUIREMENT, UM, IN, IN TERMS OF NOT BEING ABLE TO MEET THAT ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO ACTUALLY HAVE TO PUT THE PANELS ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.

SO PART OF IT IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU HAVE NON RECTANGULAR ARRAYS AND YOU CAN PUT THEM ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, THEN YOU WON'T NEED TO PUT ANY RECTANGULAR ARRAYS OR NON RECTANGULAR ARRAYS ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

SO I THINK IT'S A GIVE OR TAKE, RIGHT? AND IF YOU ALLOW THINGS ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, THEN THAT WOULD PREVENT HAVING SOME OF THEM FROM BEING IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND BEING MORE VISIBLE.

AND THAT COULD OBVIATE SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH THE, UH, COLOR MATCHING AND EVERYTHING.

SO I THINK THAT'S ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT.

ANOTHER REALLY IMPORTANT POINT THAT WAS MADE BY ONE OF THE EARLIER GENTLEMEN WHO WHO SPOKE WAS THAT, UM, AEP DOES NOT, UM, ALLOW YOU TO PRODUCE TOO MUCH ENERGY.

SO THE IDEA OF THE NUMBER OF SOLAR PANELS AND, YOU KNOW, ADDING AN ADDITIONAL SOLAR PANEL OR ADDING, YOU KNOW, ADDING WHAT YOU NEED TO GET THE, UH, THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE, FOR THE SHAPE AND EVERYTHING IS, IS POTENTIALLY NOT AN OPTION.

BECAUSE IF YOU PRODUCE MORE THAN 20% OF YOUR ENERGY FOR, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY THE, THE AMOUNT OF PERIOD OF TIME, BUT I THINK IF IT, YOU KNOW, A FEW MONTHS OR SOMETHING, AP IS ACTUALLY ABLE TO DISCONNECT YOU FROM THE NETWORK, SO THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO EVEN GET POWER FROM THEM.

AND SO THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN ISSUE, OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T THINK YOU WANT THAT HAPPENING.

UM, YOU KNOW, FORCING PEOPLE TO ADD PANELS TO MAKE A RECTANGULAR ARRAY, AND THEN HAVING, HAVING THEM, YOU KNOW, RUN THE RISK OF GETTING SHUT OFF BY AP FOR GENERATING TOO MUCH ENERGY.

AND SO JUST, THOSE ARE A FEW MORE CONSIDERATIONS TO, TO THINK ABOUT AS THEY'RE GOING FORWARD.

AND, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, MY WIFE AND I, AND AND OUR KIDS MOVED HERE TWO YEARS AGO FROM, FROM DOWNTOWN COLUMBUS.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS IS BECAUSE DUBLIN, YOU KNOW, DOES, DOES SAY THAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, SUSTAINABLE FORWARD-THINKING CITY.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, FOR THE MOST PART THEY ARE.

AND I THINK THIS IS REALLY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DUBLIN TO LEAD, UM, IN THE AREA AND REALLY GET AHEAD OF THE GAME, UM, ESPECIALLY WITH THE, THE FACT THAT, UH, SOLAR IS BECOMING A MUCH MORE, UM, UH, FINANCIALLY OR ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE OPTION FOR US WITH THE, WITH THE RISING POWER, THE RISING POWER PRICES FROM AP AND EVERYTHING.

AND SO I THINK REALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, IT'S GOOD FOR, FOR PEOPLE'S, UM, YOU KNOW, BOTTOM LINES AROUND HERE.

AND SO, THANKS.

ANYONE ELSE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH TO MAKE COMMENT? I, UH, FOR THE SAKE OF EXPEDIENCY, WHY DON'T YOU WAIT UNTIL AT, AFTER THE END AND EITHER COMMUNICATE THAT THROUGH STAFF OR GRAB ONE OF US.

WE WANNA AVOID QUORUM ISSUES.

I, AND THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A, A VOTE ON ANYTHING TONIGHT.

THIS IS ALL JUST FOR DISCUSSION.

YEAH, I WAS JUST CURIOUS.

YES, WE CAN ADDRESS THAT.

JUST QUICK, SORRY, I HAVE TWO PUBLIC COMMENTS, BUT BOTH GENTLEMEN, BOTH MR. DIEHL AND MR. HOLINSKI.

WHY DON'T WE DO THAT WHEN WE ARE MOVING ON TO DELIBERATION.

SO ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE WISH TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO DELIBERATION? SO THIS ITEM IS A NON, UH, NON MOTION.

[02:20:01]

DID I SAY THAT RIGHT? I SAID THAT WRONG.

UM, SO UNLESS YOU WANT ME TO READ THEM.

DO YOU, YOU'RE OKAY WITH ME NOT READING 'EM.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR THAT WE GOT SOME, SO COULD YOU JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THOSE EMAILED TO US? ABSOLUTELY.

YEP.

BUT SO TOO WILL THE TECH EVOLVE AND THE AVAILABILITY WILL EVOLVE AND BY DEFAULT, RIGHT? AND CERTAIN THINGS, AS THOSE SHINGLES, AS THOSE SHINGLES, UM, AND SOLUTIONS LIKE THEM BECOME EASIER TO MANUFACTURE, THERE'S BY DEFAULT OFF, OFTEN TECHS HAVE, RIGHT? THE PRICE DROPS OVER TIME, THEY BECOME MORE EFFICIENT, MORE AVAILABLE.

ALRIGHT.

UM, SO WE HAVE TWO ITEMS THAT MS. NOBLE IS LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMISSION ON.

THERE IS NO ACTION, THERE IS NO VOTE BEING TAKEN THIS EVENING.

UH, MS. NOBLE, COULD YOU TALK EVERYONE THROUGH WHAT NEXT STEPS LOOK LIKE? ABSOLUTELY.

SO WE HAVE UPDATED CITY COUNCIL ON EVEN HAVING THE DISCUSSION THIS EVENING.

UM, WE WILL GIVE AN UPDATE TO CITY COUNCIL AT THE REGULAR MEETING ON MONDAY TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT KIND OF COMMENT WE HAVE RECEIVED, NOT ONLY FROM THE COMMISSION, BUT THE PUBLIC AT LARGE, AND THEN WE WILL BE DIRECTED TO, UM, CONSIDER A CODE MODIFICATION OR WORK WITHIN THE REALMS OF OUR CURRENT CODE.

THANK YOU, MS. NOBLE.

UM, FOR THE SAKE OF EXPEDIENCY, WE WILL TAKE BOTH ITEMS TOGETHER.

AND SO, MR. FISHMAN, I'LL START WITH YOU.

FIRST OF ALL, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE, APPRECIATE THE THREE PEOPLE THAT TESTIFIED, UH, TONIGHT BECAUSE YOU REALLY TAUGHT ME A LOT.

I, I, UH, I'VE, I'VE CHANGED MY OPINION.

I DIDN'T CHANGE IT.

I, I, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WE HAD A TOUGH REGULATION ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSES.

I, I DON'T SEE ANY NEED FOR THAT BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING FOR AESTHETICS AS PEOPLE DRIVE DOWN THE STREET.

UM, AND, AND SO I, THAT'S WHERE YOU PUT THE AIR CONDITIONER, THAT'S WHERE YOU PUT THE STUFF.

SO I AGREE WITH THEM A HUNDRED PERCENT.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE MUCH DIFFERENT REGULATION FOR ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T SHOW FROM THE STREET.

OKAY? UM, AND, AND WE, WE HAVE TO BE REASONABLE THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

I I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME AESTHETIC CONTROLS BECAUSE I, I HAVE AN EXPERIENCE FROM 20 YEARS AGO, 30 YEARS AGO WHERE, UH, I LIVED IN A PLACE CALLED THE GABLES IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS.

AND, AND THE GUY NEXT TO ME WANTED TO HEAT HIS HOT WATER HEATER WITH SOLAR, AND HE PUT THIS THING IN HIS HOUSE, LOOKED LIKE A BILLBOARD.

UM, IT STUCK UP.

NOW THEY'VE, WE'VE COME A LONG WAY FROM, THAT WAS 40 YEARS AGO.

UM, BUT, BUT, UH, I THINK THAT WE, FOR THE SAKE OF THE NEIGHBORS AND THE SAKE OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS, WHEN YOU DRIVE THROUGH OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL.

I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT CAN, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, AESTHETICALLY APPRECIATE THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

I THINK IF YOU CAN GET 'EM ON THE BACK, MORE POWER TO YOU.

AND I THINK THAT, UH, THE MOST, UH, MORE EFFICIENT YOU CAN BE, THAT'S MY OPINION.

OKAY? BUT, UM, I DON'T THINK WE CAN REGULATE SOMETHING.

I I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO REGULATE SOMETHING IN SOMEBODY'S BACKYARD.

THANK YOU, MR. PUSHMAN.

MR. AK, UM, FIRST, JERRY, JASON, JAY, ROBERT GERARD.

UM, THANK YOU ALL FOR, FOR SPEAKING TONIGHT.

UM, THESE THINGS, THESE THINGS ARE NOT EASY FOR ANY OF US, RIGHT? WE, WE, THE COLLECTIVE, WE THE ENTIRETY OF THE CITY, WE WANT SUSTAINABILITY AND WE WANT ENERGY SAVINGS.

AND THOSE THINGS ARE GOOD.

WE ALSO ALWAYS WANT A LOVELY COMMUNITY.

AND WITH THAT COMES, COMES, UM, YOU KNOW, COMES AESTHETICS, AESTHETIC CONSIDERATIONS IN A WEALTH OF WEALTH OF WAYS, RIGHT? SO HERE WE ARE TRYING TO BALANCE THAT IN A REALLY MEANINGFUL WAY, UM, WHILE WE PUT WHAT ESSENTIALLY AMOUNTS TO A MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT UP ON A VERY VISIBLE PART OF OUR, OUR, OUR HOMES, RIGHT? UM, THIS IS A QUICKLY EVOLVING INDUSTRY.

UM, THERE ARE COMPELLING SOLUTIONS EMERGING, THUS THE, THUS THE TESLA, THE TESLA INTEGRATED SHINGLE, UH, SINGLE ELEMENT.

THERE'S OTHERS THAT ARE INTEGRATING INTO, INTO WINDOW GLASS.

THERE'S OTHERS, RIGHT? INTEGRATING POTENTIALLY INTO, UM, UM, RANGE SCREEN PANELS AND, AND THE LIKE, RIGHT? SO INTEGRATED SOLUTIONS ARE EVOLVING AND EVOLVING QUICKLY.

SO TOO ARE THINGS LIKE SKINS AND YEAH, THE SKINS ARE AN INTERESTING POSSIBILITY THAT GIVES US, GIVES US A TACTIC TO SOLVE FOR COLOR MOVING FORWARD.

'CAUSE I, I THINK, AS YOU KNOW, MANY OF US KNOW, SOME OF YOU MENTIONED, UM, PANELS ARE BLACK.

THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE.

UM, AND SO THAT WILL BE, THAT WILL PROVE A PROBLEM IF WE'RE TRYING TO MATCH ROOF SHINGLES WITH, WITH BLACK PANELS CONSISTENTLY, CONSISTENTLY.

UH, THIS IS A BIG PUSH RIGHT NOW, AND I'M JUST SAYING THIS FOR OUR AWARENESS, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A BIG PUSH BECAUSE OF THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, WHICH IS ONLY, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN TWO YEARS IN PLACE, THAT'S IN PLACE TILL 2030.

THIS IS NOT SLOWING DOWN.

PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE APPETITE FOR THIS AS THAT CONTINUES.

[02:25:01]

SO THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR HOW DO WE CONTROL FOR? AND, UH, WE, EARLY ON, WE WERE, WE WERE ARTICULATING THAT HOW DO WE FUTURE PROOF THIS FOR THOSE AS THEY BECOME MORE AVAILABLE, AS THEY BECOME MORE AGREEABLE, AS THEY BECOME MORE COST EFFECTIVE, RIGHT? UM, IN MEANINGFUL WAYS AS WE FINALLY DISCERN A SKIN THAT DOESN'T REDUCE SUBSTANTIALLY AND HAS LONGEVITY IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WE CAN, WE CAN EFFECTIVELY WRITE INTO IT TODAY.

THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WE JUST HAVE TO AGREE AS THIS INDUSTRY EVOLVES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO REVISIT IT ON A REGULAR, REGULAR CADENCE.

AND FORGIVE ME, THAT WAS, THAT WAS NOT ON COLOR OR ON COLOR OR SHAPE AT, AT ALL.

BUT IMPORTANT, I THINK IMPORTANT, UM, IMPORTANT AWARENESS FOR US COLLECTIVELY AS WE DO THIS FOR OURSELVES, FOR THE CITY IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

FRONT AND FRONT AND BACKS NEED TO BE TREATED DIFFERENT.

WE, WHEN WE PARTICIPATED AND, AND, UM, SCRIBED AND DRAFTED OUR PORTION OF, OF THE CODE, WE HAD DIFFERENT TREATMENT FOR FRONTS AND BACKS AND FRONTS MIGHT BE BETTER SAID, AS VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, RIGHT? THE LANGUAGE THERE IS GONNA BE IMPORTANT.

'CAUSE SIDES GET SEEN FROM THE STREET AS WELL.

AND IF WE DO THIS WRONG, UM, WE'LL HAVE THE AESTHETIC TREATMENT IN THE FRONT, YOU KNOW, AND THE SIDE IS HIGHLY VISIBLE, ESPECIALLY ON STREET ON CORNERS, RIGHT? WHAT'S THE FRONT ROAD SIDE? SO THE LANGUAGE THERE IS GOING TO BE GOING TO BE IMPORTANT.

UM, ROOF COLOR, AGAIN, I, I, I THINK THAT'S A BRI I, FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, GIVEN THE CURRENT, UH, AVAILABILITY OF TECHNOLOGIES, THAT FEELS LIKE A BRIDGE TOO FAR ON THE BACK.

UM, OBVIOUSLY THE SORT OF ASPECT OF THE SHAPE IS, AS EVERYONE, EVERYONE NOTED, THERE IS MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT, THERE ARE VENTS COMING OUT OF THE BACK OF BACKS OF OUR HOUSES.

UM, THERE MIGHT BE ALSO SKYLIGHTS, RIGHT? UM, THAT DOES CREATE SOME TROUBLE.

THERE IS MERIT TO WANTING IT TO, YOU USED A REALLY APPROPRIATE WORD, TAMMY.

DISORGANIZED, RIGHT? DISORGANIZED SHAPES ARE NOT WHAT WE ARE AFTER.

UM, BUT TO WHAT EXTENT DO WE, TO WHAT EXTENT DO WE, UH, HOLD OUR, OUR FEET TO THAT FLAME COLLECTIVELY, RIGHT? SO I AGREE.

UM, MR. SCHOCK, YOU SAID IT WELL, IF WE CAN WRITE IT IN A WAY, IF WE CAN WRITE SOMETHING IN A WAY THAT IS, UM, WORKS BACK AND FORTH WITH THE CITY AND THE CITY APPROVES AND THERE IS, THERE COULD BE GENERAL, GENERAL SORT OF, UM, DIRECTIONAL POINTING TOWARDS, IDEALLY IT'S ORGANIZED IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER, BUT THAT ORGANIZATION IS INTERPRETABLE, I THINK COULD BE A REALLY APPROPRIATE STEP.

AND THAT'S REALLY MORE OF A PROCESS STEP, WHICH I THINK YOU ARE ALREADY KIND OF DOING.

AND IT MIGHT BE CODIFIED, BUT THAT MIGHT BE THE MOMENT WHERE WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AND WE CAN RELAX THE LANGUAGE SPECIFICALLY IN THAT ASPECT.

AND I'M GONNA SAY AGAIN, ON THE BACK, MAYBE NOT ON THE SIDES, IF THEY'RE VISIBLE, MAYBE NOT ON THE FRONT.

THANK YOU, MR. SOUP, BLACK.

MS. HARTER, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

UM, THIS HAS BEEN A RIDE FOR ALL OF US.

WHEN IT FIRST CAME TO, UH, DUBLIN, IT WAS BECAUSE THE STATE LEGISLATURE WAS MOVING VERY QUICKLY ON SOME LEGISLATION AND PASSED IT.

THEN, UM, THIS COMMITTEE, UH, GOT WORKING AND SPENT A LOT OF TIME COMING UP WITH SOME, UM, THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ABOUT IT.

AT LEAST SOMETHING GOT ON PAPER.

UH, THEN, UM, WE OPENED IT UP.

IT WAS OPENED UP BY THE CITY AND WORKING WITH STAFF AND DID A GREAT JOB BRINGING THE COMMUNITY IN.

AND I HAPPENED TO GO TO ONE OF THOSE MEETINGS AND GOODNESS GRACIOUS, PEOPLE WERE AWARE OF, UH, WHAT THEY WANTED.

AND, UH, THEY WANTED SOME OPTIONS.

AND WE HEARD THAT LOUD AND CLEAR.

IT WENT TO CITY COUNCIL.

THEY HEARD THAT.

AND I THINK THAT'S ONE GOOD REASON WHY WE'RE BACK HERE.

AND THIS IS A GOOD EXERCISE FOR ALL OF US TO BE WORKING TOGETHER ON THIS.

SO, UM, WHERE WE ARE NOW IS, UM, I LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE, UM, LOOK AT THE FRONT AND BACK DIFFERENTLY.

UM, THINGS CAN BE, UM, MOVED

[02:30:01]

AROUND WITH SHAPES AND THINGS THAT IN THE BACK, UH, WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE AS MUCH OF THE MECHANICALS THAT ARE IN THE BACK.

AND SO WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THOSE.

AND, UM, AND THEN, UM, I AM NOT OPPOSED TO COLOR, BUT WHAT I AM OPPOSED TO IS INSTALLATION THAT IS DONE WRONG.

UM, I, I, UH, WORRY ABOUT THE COST ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE PUTTING, UM, INTO MATERIALS.

SO COLLECTIVELY, MAYBE THE CITY CAN ALSO HELP OUT THE CITIZENS BY PUTTING TOGETHER A LIST OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN TRIED, UH, NOT JUST HERE, BUT MAYBE IN, IN OTHER AREAS, AND WHY THOSE PRODUCTS WORK BETTER THAN OTHERS.

SO YOU DON'T KIND OF GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE WHERE, OH, WE'VE USED A PRODUCT THAT MAYBE WE WOULDN'T HAVE USED.

UM, SO I'M OKAY WITH THE SHAPES IN THE BACK.

I, I UNDERSTAND THAT'S A COST, UM, TO CITIZENS AND, UH, AND, AND HE HELPING IT TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE SUSTAINABLE.

UH, WE DO LIVE IN AN AREA THAT REALLY TRIES HARD TO DO THAT.

UM, AND I THINK, I THINK WE CAN DO THAT.

AND AGAIN, COLOR, I THINK WE CAN WORK WITH THAT.

UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MANY OF US WHO'VE CHANGED OUR ROOFS AND YOU HAD A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO PICK.

SO THERE'S, WE, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WORK WITH, UM, THOSE COLORS THERE TOO.

I APPRECIATE HOW THE STAFF HAS MOVED US IN A GREAT DIRECTION, UM, AND BEING VERY OPEN AND BRINGING IT BACK AND MAKING US THINK, UM, THROUGH THIS.

LEMME MAKE SURE MY NOTES.

I THINK THAT'S IT.

ON THE FRONT IS STILL, MM-HMM, .

THANK YOU, MS. HARDER, MR. CHINOOK.

UH, I DON'T HAVE A LOT, UH, TO ADD, BUT I 100% AGREE.

AND I, I, I APPRECIATE THE FRUSTRATION FROM THE PUBLIC.

AND I MEAN, SUSTAINABILITY IS NOT EASY, RIGHT? IT'S GREAT TO SAY WE WANNA BE SUSTAINABLE, BUT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF WORK, A LOT OF EFFORT.

AND IT'S OBVIOUSLY FRUSTRATING FOR THE PUBLIC, BUT IT'S ALSO A LOT OF WORK FOR THE STAFF.

AND FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, FROM FROM UP HERE.

I MEAN, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THE COLOR BRICK FOR TWO HOURS.

SO IT'S, IT'S OBVIOUSLY IMPORTANT TO US THAT WE MAINTAIN A CERTAIN, UH, AESTHETIC IN THE CITY, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CHARGED WITH.

SO I THINK IT'S, IT'S OBVIOUSLY VERY TOUGH, UM, WHICH EVERYBODY'S, I'M JUST REITERATING WHAT EVERYBODY'S SAYING.

IT'S A, IT'S A TOUGH, TOUGH SCENARIO.

I WANT TO COMMENT JUST ON THE COLOR PIECE, THOUGH.

MY OPINION ON THE COLOR, I'M NOT AS CONCERNED ABOUT THE COLOR.

'CAUSE SOMETIMES WHEN YOU TRY TO MATCH, IT ACTUALLY LOOKS WORSE.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT MAYBE HAVING A WHITE SOLAR PANEL TRYING TO MATCH A WHITE ROOF BAD EXAMPLE, BUT MAYBE DOESN'T LOOK THAT GREAT.

SO I, I HAVE A LITTLE MORE LENIENCY ON, ON, ON THE COLOR BECAUSE IT JUST, YOU KIND OF TAKE IT TOO FAR AND IT LOOKS COULD POTENTIALLY LOOK WORSE.

I THINK WE CAN, CAN DEFINITELY WORK WITH THAT.

I GUESS MY QUESTION, AND I KIND OF ALLUDED TO IT EARLIER THOUGH, WOULD BE IF, I KNOW IT'S A LOT THE HEART, IT'S A LOT ON THE TASK TO STAFF, BUT I THINK THE, ESPECIALLY GETTING THROUGH THIS, THIS PERIOD WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER AND FIGURE IT OUT, YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB FROM WHERE WE WERE, A COUPLE EVEN, YOU KNOW, SIX MONTHS AGO.

BUT CAN STAFF HAVE MORE INVOLVEMENT? AND THAT WOULD BE MY ONE ASK.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE OBVIOUSLY TALKED A LOT ABOUT DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, SCENARIOS OF MAYBE LENIENCY ON THE BACK OF THE, THE BUILDINGS, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T WANT, OR THE BACK OF THE HOMES, BUT I JUST DON'T WANNA GET TO A POINT WHERE IT'S A, I HATE TO USE THE TERM FREE FOR ALL, BUT WE'RE END UP WITH, YOU KNOW, EVEN THE BACKS OF HOMES OR SIDE SIDE YARDS THAT STILL DON'T LOOK AESTHETICALLY LIKE WE WANT IT TO LOOK.

UM, SO AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LOT TO ASK A STAFF, BUT THE MORE ENGAGEMENT STAFF CAN HAVE ON REVIEWING THESE, I THINK WE CAN, I FEEL GOOD ABOUT OFFERING A LOT MORE LENIENCY ON SHAPE AND COLOR AND SOME THINGS LIKE THAT.

IF, BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF TRUST IN STAFF THAT IS WORKING ON, UM, YOU KNOW, THE BEHALF OF, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF THE AESTHETIC SIDE OF THE, THE, THE ARGUMENT HERE.

THAT'S IT.

THANK YOU, MR. CHINOOK.

UM, I'LL BE SOMEWHAT SUCCINCT.

UM, I LIKE THE IDEA OF, UM, LOOSENING UP SOME OF THE LANGUAGE.

I LIKE LIMITING NON PLANAR, NON-CONTIGUOUS ELEMENTS AND ENCOURAGING COMPLIMENTARY COLOR AND DESIGN.

UH, I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING THIS MORE ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW, AND I KIND OF LOVE THE IDEA OF, HEY, IF IT'S ON THE FRONT, YOU'RE ARB.

UH, SO THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS.

COMPLIMENTARY IS A GOOD WORD.

UH, I WROTE IT AS SOON AS YOU, YOU SPOKE, JAMIE, RIGHT? COMPLIMENTARY WITH, WITH REVIEW BY STAFF ALLOWS THEM TO DECIDE IF IT IS COMPLIMENTARY WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MATCHY MATCHY.

UM, FRONT I VISIBLE, YES, ARB, AGREED.

ARE WE, AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY FOR EVEN MY, I SO THAT I'M NOT MINCING MY WORDS, BUT I KIND OF HEARD IT AND WONDER IN YOURS TOO, AND MAYBE IT'S TRUE OF ALL OF US.

I STILL LIKE THE AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS ON THE VISIBLE STUFF, RIGHT? YEP.

WHEN WE'RE SAYING RELA RELAXING, I'M RELAXING ON THE BACK, BACK SIDE.

[02:35:01]

YEP.

WHEN YOU SAID ARP, WERE YOU MEANING ARB OR A-R-T-A-R-T BEING LIKE A STAFF TEAM THAT WOULD REVIEW? SO I WAS THINKING ARB ON THE FRONT SIDE, ADMINISTRATIVE ON THE BACKSIDE, ON THE, WE'RE LOOKING AT 25 APPLICATIONS IN HOW MANY MONTHS? I, WELL, SO FAR, WHAT, 25 AND FIVE MONTHS, THREE MONTHS SINCE BECAME MAYBE BETTER PUT IS THAT TO WIT, IS THAT A COMMISSION? AND, AND MORE TO THE POINT, THE A B'S FOCUS IS HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO IT MAY BE OUTSIDE THEIR DAILY WIT.

YEAH, I THINK WHAT WE'RE THINKING IS A LITTLE BIT MORE SCRUTINY UNTIL WE GET SOME EXAMPLES UNDER OUR BELT.

AND THEN JUST LIKE WE HAVE IN SOME, THEN WE CAN DELEGATE DOWN TO, UM, UH, AN ADMINISTRATIVE TYPE ROLE.

SO IF WE HAVE A MECHANISM, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE IS GREAT, I THINK FOR THE BACKSIDE OF THE PROPERTY, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, HEY, LET'S, LET'S TRY TO MAKE IT AS GOOD AS WE CAN, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY WITH THE, HEY, THEY GAVE US PLAN A, PLAN B, PLAN C, WHICH ONE CITY DO YOU WANT? BUT, BUT MAYBE WE NOODLE ON SOMETHING THAT CAN, BUT ON THE FRONT, I'M SORRY.

I'M SORRY.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.

NO WORRIES.

BUT ON THE FRONT SIDE, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE SENSITIVE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T JUST IMPACT THAT PARTICULAR HOMEOWNER.

IT IMPACTS EVERY HOMEOWNER AROUND THAT PARTICULAR PERSON.

PERHAPS WE COULD NOODLE ON SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD SEE SINCE YOU HAVE MORE CITYWIDE JURISDICTION, BUT MORE SIMILAR TO LIKE A CONSENT CALENDAR THING WHERE YOU COULD SEE THE EXAMPLE BEFORE IT GETS THE FINAL APPROVAL.

PULL IT IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BUT I LOVE THE IDEA OF BRINGING BACK IDEAS.

WE, WE CAN THINK OF A, A WAY TO DO THAT.

SO IT'S NOT A FULL-BLOWN APPLICATION TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PERHAPS, BUT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD SEE.

SO, WE'LL, WE'LL WORK ON THAT.

THANK YOU, MR. BOX.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS A NON-ACTION ITEM.

WE'RE NOT TAKING A VOTE ON THIS PARTICULAR ELEMENT THIS EVENING.

ARE THERE ANY FINAL ITEMS, FINAL DISCUSSION ITEMS FOR THE SOLAR PANELS FROM ANYONE BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT COMMUNICATION ITEMS? I JUST WANTED TO ADD, UM, JUST KEEPING IN MIND THE HOAS THAT ARE OUT THERE TOO AND BRINGING THEM ALONG IN ALL THIS CONVERSATION.

TO TOUR ONE AND TWO RECAPS, MS. ROUSH.

AND MR. BOGGS, DO YOU WANNA CLARIFY THE CITY'S ROLE WHEN IT COMES TO HOA REGULATIONS? SORRY ABOUT THAT.

UM, UH, SURE.

YEAH, THE, THE CITY GENERALLY DOESN'T GET INVOLVED IN THE SUBSTANCE OR EVEN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE HOA REGULATIONS.

ONE THING THAT I WILL SAY IN, IN THE SOLAR PANEL CONTEXT THAT COMPLICATES THAT EVEN MORE IS I BELIEVE THAT THE STATE LAW THAT YOU ALLUDED TO, UM, COMMISSIONER HARDER, REALLY FOCUSES ON HOAS THEMSELVES.

AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE HAVE BEEN LEGAL ACTIONS FILED WITH REGARD TO HOAS.

SO WE MIGHT TRY TO AVOID THOSE HOT POTATOES.

THANK YOU, MR. BOX.

THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, YOU'RE WELCOME TO STAY AROUND AND, AND CHAT WITH US SOME MORE, BUT WE'LL BE MOVING ON

[Tour I and II Recaps – Bassem Bitar]

UH, I'M GONNA LET BASSAM GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW, UM, OF OUR, OF OUR TOURS AND HEAR, HEAR FROM YOU ON THAT.

SO THANK YOU.

WEXHAM MEDICAL HOSPITAL CAMPUS, AND ALSO THE OU CAMPUS.

IT IS A GOOD CONVERSATION.

MM-HMM, IT IS, IT IS HARD.

WELL, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IN A FEW YEARS IT MIGHT, THEY ALL MIGHT BE VERY, VERY AESTHETIC, RIGHT? AND OR I ALSO GO TO, PART OF THE TROUBLE IS THE MODULE IS BIG RIGHT NOW.

THERE MIGHT BE NARROW SLICES THAT ARE MORE MANAGEABLE AND CAN CREATE BETTER SHAPES, AND I THINK TECHNOLOGY'S GONNA SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

I, I DID FOR OLD, AND I REMEMBER DISHES, WE HAD ONE IN, IN OFF OUR STREET.

IT WAS 20 BY 20 OR SOMETHING, UH, SATELLITE DISHES, AND THERE WERE LAWSUITS OVER IT.

THEY MADE IT TAKE IT DOWN.

AND HE SAID HE SPENT, YOU KNOW, $10,000 FOR IT OR SOMETHING.

I'M JUST MAKING THAT UP.

BUT SOME BIG NUMBER.

AND, AND, AND, UH, CABLE CAME, THE PROBLEM WENT AWAY.

, YOU KNOW, SO I, I DID FOR KICK AND GIGGLES GOOGLE COST OF TESLAS

[02:40:01]

THAT DEPRECIATE.

SO THE ROADSTER STARTED AT 80 TO 130.

THE X CAME DOWN TO 80, THE S CAME DOWN TO 58, AND WHILE WE DIDN'T QUITE GET THE 35, THE ELON WON, AND WE DID GET 39.

SO I'LL TURN THE TIME OVER TO YOU FOR OUR TOUR RECAP.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, THE STATE AND THE EVENING.

I WILL.

UH, UM, AS YOU KNOW, WE HAD, UH, DONE A COUPLE OF TOURS.

ONE DRIVING, UH, TOUR ON SEPTEMBER 14TH AND A WALKING TOUR OF BRIDGE PARK ON OCTOBER 5TH.

UH, WE DID GET A LOT OF COMMENTS FROM ALL OF YOU AND ALL OF THE, UH, ALL THE FOLKS THAT PARTICIPATED.

UM, I PERSONALLY APPRECIATED THAT ALSO.

IT WAS VERY EDUCATIONAL, UH, TO ME.

AND AS YOU KNOW, THE SITES THAT WE, UH, VISITED HAD A VARIETY OF USES.

AND SO ONE, AND WE SUMMARIZED IN THE MEMO THAT WE PROVIDED TO YOU SOME OF WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD TO BE YOUR COMMENTS AND BE INTERESTED IN SEEING IF WE MISSED ANYTHING.

AND ALSO MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT WE'VE LEARNED AND WHAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON MOVING FORWARD.

UM, WANTED TO JUST VERY QUICKLY, UH, MAKE A COUPLE OF OBSERVATIONS, UM, IN TERMS OF SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASKED AND THE, UH, FOLLOW UP RESEARCH THAT WE DID AND INCLUDED IN THE MEMO.

AND SO I JUST WANTED TO GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THESE SITES.

NOT, NOT EXHAUSTIVELY, BUT UH, UH, THE SLIDE THAT YOU SEE HERE HAS A COUPLE DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE VISITED.

UH, ONE IS A NEWER ONE WITH AUTUMN ROSE WOODS.

ONE IS A, A LONG ESTABLISHED ONE IN DONAL CLIFFS.

AND I THINK THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE GENEROUS OPEN SPACE THAT WE HAVE WITH THE, UH, DONNA GOLD CLIFFS, THE VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES AND, UM, AND SO FORTH.

SO THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE DENSITY WAS, WHAT THE SETBACKS WERE AND, AND SO FORTH.

AND SOMEWHAT SURPRISING TO ME AT LEAST, WAS THAT THE SETBACKS ACTUALLY ARE VERY SIMILAR.

IT'S THE WAY IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.

EACH ONE OF 'EM WAS CONSTRUCTED AND THE ALLOCATION OF OPEN SPACE, IN FACT, THE TECHNICAL DENSITY IS A LITTLE HIGHER AT DONNA GOLD CLIFFS VERSUS AUTUMN ROSE WOODS.

UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE WORTH TO LOOKING AT IN THE FUTURE, AND WHETHER THE, UH, NEW NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN GUIDELINES MIGHT ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE MAY HAVE.

OTHERWISE, THE ALLOCATION OF, OF OPEN SPACE, THE, UH, THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT DRIVEWAYS AND, UH, PROXIMITY OF CARS TO SIDEWALKS AND SO FORTH.

SO, UM, JUST KIND OF AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION, WHICH ALSO CARRIED FORWARD.

WE VISITED THE OVERLOOK AT TARTAN RIDGE AND THEN A SUB AREA OF TARTAN RIDGE ITSELF.

AND AGAIN, WHEN WE LOOKED BACK AT THE, UH, SETBACKS AND SO FORTH, UH, THERE WERE, AGAIN, SIMILAR, THE LAYOUT MAKES, MAKES A QUITE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE CHARACTER OF EACH ONE OF THOSE.

THE, UH, ONE THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE SETBACKS IS, UH, THE HAMLET ON JEROME.

UH, THAT ONE DEFINITELY DOES HAVE SMALLER SETBACKS, AND THE DENSITY, AT LEAST FOR THAT PARTICULAR SUB AREA, IS, UH, QUITE A BIT HIGHER THAN THE REST.

AND I THINK, AGAIN, IN THIS CASE, THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER THE DRIVEWAYS WERE LONG ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE CARS WITHOUT, UH, INTERFERING WITH THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK AND NO TREES AND, AND NO YES, LIMITED, LIMITED SPACE, WHICH IS ODDLY DISCONCERTING AS YOU, AS YOU LOOK AT THIS.

RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY.

WE ALSO, AS YOU KNOW, VISITED, UH, DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL.

THE ASHERTON HAPPENS TO BE A MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL BUILT, I BELIEVE, IN THE 1970S.

AND THAT ONE HAD A LOT OF OPEN SPACE AND INCLUDING THE, UH, THE PONDS THAT GAVE IT A CERTAIN CHARACTER THAT, UH, OUR IMPRESSION WAS THAT ALL OF YOU FELT COMFORTABLE, EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THE MATERIALS ARE ONES THAT WE WOULD NOT TYPICALLY ALLOW THESE DAYS, LIKE VINYL SIDING, BUT THAT THE OVERALL CHARACTER, THE TRADE-OFFS WITH THE OPEN SPACE, THE, UH, SETUP WAS, WAS ACCEPTABLE.

SO, AGAIN, MAYBE, UH, ITEMS TO THINK ABOUT IN THE, IN THE FUTURE AS WE MOVE ON TO MORE INSTITUTIONAL TYPES OF USES, UH, ONE OF THE STOPS WAS THE, UH, UH, POOL.

AND, UH, OUR IMPRESSION WAS THAT THE ARCHITECTURE WAS VIEWED FAVORABLY.

SOME OF THE RETENTION OR DRY DETENTION, UH, BASINS WERE WELL DONE.

UH, A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN ABOUT SOME OF THE LONGEVITY OF THE, UH, WOOD MATERIAL, UH, BUT OVERALL, UH, POSITIVE IMPRESSIONS.

WE VISITED THE OHIO STATE, UH, CAMPUS, THE, THE

[02:45:01]

AND OBVIOUSLY THOSE ARE THE TWO DIFFERENT ONES, UH, BUILT DIFFERENTLY, BUT APPRECIATION FOR THE OPEN SPACE, CONCERNED ABOUT SOME OF THE WAY FINDING, ESPECIALLY AT THE OU CAMPUS, BUT ALSO SOME OF THE, UH, SIGNAGE AT THE, UH, OSU FACILITY AND WHETHER THE WAY FINDING WAS EFFECTIVE OR NOT.

AND THEN COMMERCIAL IN TURN, UH, AN EXAMPLE WAS THE CORNERS ON FRANCE ROAD AND, AND THE INTEGRATION OF SOME OF THE PUBLIC OPEN SPACE, THE INTEGRATION INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND SOME OF THE, UH, PARKING LAYOUTS THAT, UH, LENT THEMSELVES TO, UH, HOPEFULLY A SUCCESSFUL DEVELOPMENT AT THAT LOCATION.

AS WE MOVED TO THE WALKING TOUR WITH BRIDGE PARK, UH, THE FIRST STOP, AS YOU MAY REMEMBER, WAS, UH, TALLER FLATS.

AND THERE WE LEARNED THAT THERE WERE SOME ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS THAT WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO IN THE FUTURE, NOT ONLY AT THE APPROVAL LEVEL, BUT UH, PERHAPS AT THE DURING CONSTRUCTION.

UH, HARD TO SEE AND AND HEAR, BUT THE, UH, WAY THE, UH, PARAPET TURNS AROUND THE CORNER, UH, WAS NOT ALWAYS COVERED WITH THE FINISHED MATERIALS.

AND SOME OF THE BACKING MATERIALS WAS, WAS VISIBLE.

I THINK THERE WERE SOME SIMILAR OBSERVATIONS WITH SOME OF THE ARCHITECTURE DETAILS ON THE, UH, TIMES ON THE PARKWAY, UH, DEVELOPMENT.

I DON'T HAVE PICTURES OF THAT ONE.

UM, BUT THEN AS WE GOT INTO THE, UH, THE MAJOR PART OF BRIDGE PARK, UH, THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SOME OF THE MATERIALS THERE, THE WIDTH OF THE SIDEWALKS, AND WHETHER THOSE WERE, UH, ADEQUATE ON, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, ON LONGSHORE DRIVE.

UM, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER SOME OF THE MATERIALS ARE WEATHERING WELL OR THEY, WHETHER THEY WILL REQUIRE MORE MAINTENANCE IN THE FUTURE.

UH, BUT AN APPRECIATION FOR SOME OF THE, UH, OPEN SPACES THAT WERE WELL DONE WITH THE, WITH THE TERMINAL VISTAS.

AND THIS HAPPENS TO BE IN THE NORTHERN, UH, PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT.

ALSO SOME APPRECIATION FOR SOME OF THE UNIQUE SIGNAGE AT THE CORNERS, INCLUDING THE SILO AND, AND THE, UH, OTHER FEATURES.

UH, BUT AS YOU TURN AROUND, THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONING ABOUT WHETHER THE TERMINAL VISTA TOWARDS THE RIVER WAS, UH, UH, THE BEST WAY TO, TO BE DONE, OR WHETHER IT COULD HAVE BEEN ORIENTED SO THAT THE BRIDGE OR OTHER FACILITIES WOULD BE YOUR FOCAL POINT.

AND A FEW CONCERNS ABOUT SOME OF THE MATERIALS BLEEDING INTO SOME OF THE, UH, SURROUNDING, UM, AREAS AND SOME OF THE POCKET PLAZAS WHERE THE INTERNAL USES WERE NOT DESIGNED TO ALLOW FOR THOSE TO BE, UH, USED FOR OUTDOOR SEATING FOR THOSE, UH, PARTICULAR USES.

AND THEN FINALLY, SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE GARAGES, SOME THAT WERE EARLY, THAT WERE NOT NECESSARILY THE MOST AESTHETICALLY PLEASING AND SOME ON THE RIGHT THAT, UH, IS A NEWER GARAGE THAT INCORPORATED SOME ELEMENTS TO, UH, BLEND IN WITH THE DEVELOPMENT.

SO, I WILL STOP HERE.

VERY QUICK OVERVIEW.

UH, THERE WERE A LOT OF COMMENTS, SO AGAIN, WE WOULD WELCOME ANY ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS, AND THEN IF WE, UH, WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT, UH, WHAT, UH, MIGHT BE DONE MOVING FORWARD, THANK YOU.

I THINK ONE THING THAT WE COULD, I, I THINK THIS COMMISSION DOES A FANTASTIC JOB.

AND I'M, I'M GONNA BREAK MY NORMAL AND I'M GONNA MAKE A FEW COMMENTS AND THEN TURN IT OVER TO THE COMMISSION FOR SOME OTHERS.

UH, SO LOOKING AT THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY SPECIFICALLY, I THINK THAT ONE THING THAT POPPED OUT TO ME WAS HOW IMPORTANT THAT PUBLIC REALM IS.

SO THE SETBACKS, THE FRONT SETBACKS, A A FIVE FOOT DIFFERENCE, MAKES A HUGE IMPACT TO HOW INDIVIDUALS IN THE PUBLIC REALM INTERACT WITH THAT PROPERTY.

WHEN THE HOUSE IS SET BACK A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, IT'S A DIFFERENCE TO THAT PUBLIC REALM.

ADDITIONALLY, THE STREET LAYOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I LIVED IN UTAH FOR 11 YEARS AND EVERYTHING THERE IS ON THE GRID SYSTEM.

SO EVERYTHING IS LIKE THESE, YOU KNOW, PERFECTLY LINED YOUR STREETS.

YOU HAVE NORTH AND SOUTH ROADS, AND YOU HAVE EAST AND WEST ROADS, AND EVERYTHING'S ON A BLOCK, BUT YOUR LOTS ALSO LOOK SMALLER, EVEN THOUGH YOUR, YOUR DENSITY IS CREATED.

THAT, AND DUBLIN'S DONE A VERY GOOD JOB OF DOING THE SPOKEN WHEEL TYPE NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND BECAUSE YOU GET THE UNDULATION OF THE FRONT AND THE SIDE, UM, LOT COVERAGE AND THE, THE ACTUAL WIDTH OF THE LOTS, IT, IT'S DIFFERENT INTERPLAY.

AGAIN, THAT PUBLIC REALM IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

AND THEN THE LAST THING THAT I WANNA, UM, CALL OUT IS BOTH FROM A RESIDENTIAL AND A, UM, A COMMERCIAL PERSPECTIVE.

YOU KNOW, WE, YOU GUYS HEAR ME SAY ALL THE TIME, YOU KNOW, CRAYONS VERSUS TUPELOS VERSUS LEGO BLOCKS.

[02:50:01]

I THINK THAT EVERYBODY PUTS THEIR HEART AND SOUL AND MORE TIME THAN THEIR FAMILY PROBABLY WANTS THEM TO, INTO PREPARING AND ATTENDING THESE MEETINGS.

AND THAT COMES FROM A COMMISSION AND A STAFF PERSPECTIVE.

BUT I DO THINK THAT, UM, CONCENTRATING MORE ON THE ITEMS THAT ARE WITHIN OUR PURVIEW, WE LOOKED AT SOME OF THE MATERIALS ON BUILDINGS, AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I WENT, I CERTAINLY HOPE I DIDN'T APPROVE THAT ON A COUPLE OF 'EM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN.

IT DOESN'T HOLD UP WELL, IT DOESN'T, UM, HOLD UP FROM A, A COMMERCIAL, FROM A PUBLIC OR FROM AN INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER'S PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT? CITY APPROVED PROPERTY.

IT'S NOT HOLDING UP, IT'S NOT WEATHERING.

WELL, IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, WARREN CALLED OUT EARLIER.

WE'VE NEVER BEEN AFRAID OF HAVING HIGH QUALITY MATERIAL IN THE CITY OF DUBLIN.

AND SO I DON'T REALLY SEE A NEED TO CHANGE THAT.

WE LIKE HIGH QUALITY BECAUSE IT STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

SO I BELABORED MY SIDE OF THINGS, BUT I'D LIKE TO TURN OVER TO THE REST OF THE COMMISSION TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON THE TOURS.

MR. HOW DO WE GET TO THE STREET? BECAUSE I HAD BROUGHT THAT UP TOO, LIKE HOW DID, HOW DID THAT, I GUESS, HOW DID WE GET TO A GRID AT MORE GRIDED STREET LAYOUT THAN TO YOUR POINT, LIKE HOW DID THAT PRELIMINARY PLAT THAT, THAT IT'S THE DUPLO BLOCKS, IT'S A CONCEPT PLAN SOMEWHAT, BUT THE DUPLO, AND I THINK WE OWE OURSELVES, UH, AND WE OWE THE RESIDENTS MORE.

IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE BUILDING GREEN PARCELS VERY OFTEN.

YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE MOST OF THE CITY BUILT OUT, BUT I THINK THAT WE OWE IT TO OURSELVES AND TO THE RESIDENTS TO PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION ON THOSE PRELIMINARY PLATTS AND HOW THOSE PARCELS ARE GONNA BE LAID OUT.

I HAD A COUPLE OTHER QUE COMMENTS TOO.

SO, UM, ON THE WOOD MATERIAL THAT KIND OF KEEPS, SEEMS LIKE IT KEEPS REARING ITS UGLY HEAD.

AND I KNOW WE'VE BEEN, IN THE PAST, WE'VE, AND I'M NOT A BIG PROPONENT OF, YOU KNOW, TRAPPER SOME OF THESE OTHER ACM PANELS THAT CAN REPLACE WOOD.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, UM, POOL, IF YOU LOOK AT KINDA WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE NORTH MARKET, I, I, TO ME, THERE'S AN APPETITE FOR A WOOD MATERIAL AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN REAL WOOD.

A WOOD-LIKE MATERIAL THAT CAN SUSTAIN WEATHER MUCH BETTER THAN AN ACTUAL WOOD, IT LOOKS A LOT BETTER.

AND IT'S JUST, AND IT'S, IT LASTS A LONG, A LONGER PERIOD, AND IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

AND I WOULD QUALIFY IT AS A, AS A HIGH QUALITY MATERIAL.

SO I JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO START TO CONSIDER SOME OF THOSE PRODUCTS THAT HAVE COME A LONG WAY, UM, TO NOT BE, SO AGAIN, I'M NOT NECESSARILY PROPONENT FOR OR AGAINST IT.

I LIKE THE WOOD LOOK, UM, REAL WOOD, BUT I'M JUST THINKING AS WE SEE THINGS AGE AND NOT MAYBE MAINTAIN, IT'S JUST SOMETHING MAYBE WE NEED TO CONSIDER GOING FORWARD.

AND THE OTHER THING I WANNA ADD TO, TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT ONE REAL QUICK.

WE, WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY FOR AN ARCHITECT TO KIND OF REVIEW THESE MATERIALS AND GIVE US REPORTS, BUT DO WE ALSO HAVE KIND OF THE, THE PROOFS IN THE PUDDING? DO WE LOOK AT APPLYING A RESPA, AN IHA, A WHATEVER IT IS, MATERIAL ON ONE OF THESE AREAS OF ALREADY CONCERN AND SEE HOW IT WEATHERS AND SEE FOR OURSELVES, CITY OWNED PROPERTY, DO WE LIKE THE WAY THAT IT LOOKS, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS A LITTLE WORSE FOR THE WAY, OR EVEN THOUGH IT'S PRETTY MUCH BRAND NEW.

DO WE DO THOSE CASE STUDIES? YEAH, MR. CHINO, SORRY, ONE, ONE MORE QUICK.

SO I THINK WHEN WE, WE ALL WENT TO SEE THE ASHER TENANT AGAIN, IT'S CLOSE TO MY HOME, SO I'M A LITTLE MORE PASSIONATE ABOUT IT.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK IS MOST SUCCESSFUL, OBVIOUSLY THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF SPACE AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY REALISTIC GOING FORWARD, BUT I THINK IT'S THE MOUNDING THAT THEY'VE DONE ACROSS THE, ALONG ARLINGTON PARKWAY THERE THAT, UM, I KNOW WE'VE DONE IT A A LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE, BUT I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO REALLY CONSIDER TOO.

'CAUSE IT REALLY HAS A, JUST A NICE FEEL WHEN YOU JUST USE JUST SIMPLE MOUNDING TO, TO, TO BLOCK HEADLIGHTS CARS, SOME, SOME THINGS LIKE THAT THAT REALLY MAKE THE, THAT WELL, AND AGAIN, ADJACENCY OF THAT VERSUS THE COMMUNITY TEMPERED BY THE MOUNDING AND THE SPACE.

I DON'T, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD, YOU KNOW, THE ARCHITECTURE IS FINE AND ADEQUATE, BUT IT'S NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT.

UM, BUT THAT'S ALWAYS WHAT THAT DRIVE AROUND ARLINGTON I THINK IS ALWAYS REALLY LOVELY.

AND RECOGNIZING, YOU ALWAYS TALK ABOUT CARDINAL HEALTH ADJACENT, DONE, WELL ADJACENT TO, I FORGET WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS, BUT THE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY ACROSS THE STREET, THAT'S A LOVELY TRANSITION.

ARLINGTON IS A REALLY LOVELY TRANSITION.

AND TO YOUR POINT, THE MATERIALS IN THOSE BUILDINGS ARE NOT OF THE HIGH QUALITY THAT WE, BUT WE'VE, IT, IT WORKS BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY'VE DONE RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE MATERIALS.

WELL, THE QUALITY IS FOR LONGEVITY, YOU KNOW, AND I'M SORRY, WORD UP MIC.

IT'S FOR LONGEVITY.

AND SOME OF THE NEW MATERIALS HAVE PROVEN ITSELF.

HARDY CLANK SEEMS TO HAVE PROVEN ITSELF.

IT'S BEEN AROUND 20 YEARS NOW.

AND, AND, AND, UH, YOU STILL HAVE TO PAINT HARDY PLANK.

BUT, BUT, BUT, UH, I, I THINK THERE'S SOME GOOD MATERIALS, BUT

[02:55:01]

I THINK YOU GOTTA BE REAL CAREFUL.

I, I JUST CAN'T RESIST SAYING THAT IN 1973, I BUILT MY FIRST BUILDING.

THE GUY FROM APCO SIGNING WAS THERE AND THEY, HE WAS TALKING ME INTO ALUMINUM SIGNING AND HE SAID, YOU'LL NEVER LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THIS STUFF GO BAD.

WELL, GUESS WHAT I DID? IT ONLY TOOK A FEW YEARS.

AND SO, SO I THINK WE HAVE TO, THEY HAVE TO PROVE THEMSELVES BEFORE WE MS HARD.

I THINK WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING AROUND, YOU'RE NOTICING ALL THE STONE THAT'S AROUND AND WHAT DOES STICK OUT.

IF IT'S A, IF IT'S A STONE THAT'S LIKE KIND OF SHINY, NOT REAL, IT REALLY STICKS OUT BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MUCH GOOD STONE HAPPENING AND, AND FEATURES.

AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT TOO.

I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THE MOUNDING.

I ALSO WOULD PUT BRIDGE PARK IN THERE TOO WITH THAT BECAUSE THERE'S SOME NICE LITTLE, UH, OPPORTUNITIES THERE THAT, THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WERE, UM, LOOKING AROUND, UM, ALSO IS WHEN YOU SEE THE DRIVEWAYS, THE CONCRETE VERSUS THE BLACKTOP, UM, IT'S JUST NICE TO THINK ABOUT THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE CONCRETE OPPORTUNITY AND LESS OF AN EXPENSE FOR NEIGHBORS TOO.

AND I THINK MORE AND MORE, SINCE MAILBOXES ARE CHANGING, THERE'S MORE OF THE STATIONARY TYPE THINGS TOO, AND LOOKING AND FINDING THOSE AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT AS MORE AN ART FEATURE OR A PLACE TO MEET UP WITH FRIENDS.

AND SO KIND OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT THAT SPACE LOOKS LIKE, UM, AS WELL TOO.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE'LL HEAR PEOPLE COME IN AND SAY, WELL, WE, WE SEE DEVELOPERS COME IN AND TALK ABOUT THAT.

WELL, WE MIGHT BE PUTTING SOME RETAIL IN THERE, BUT THEN LATER IT SWITCHES TO HOMES AND SO FORTH LIKE THAT.

HOW, HOW DO WE TAKE THAT SWITCH WHEN IT, WHEN IT HAPPENS? AND MAYBE WE'RE NOT EVEN PART OF WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THAT THEY DON'T FIND RETAIL TO BE SOMETHING, UM, THAT THAT'S GONNA BE ADVANTAGEOUS IN THAT AREA.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THAT'S ALL HAPPENING, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT TOO? SO, AND THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR TAKING US AROUND.

IT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

UM, I LEARNED A LOT JUST BEING NEW ON THE COMMISSION AND SO FORTH.

AND IT ALSO IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO BRING US TOGETHER.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? I THINK WE ALL ECHO MS. HARDER'S COMMENTS.

NEXT ITEM FOR COMMUNICATIONS, UH, IS OUR AGENDA.

AND IT WAS FUN.

IT'S FUN BEING WITH YOU GUYS OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW, AIS AND SORT OF THING.

ALRIGHT,

[2024 Meeting Schedule – Jenny Rauch]

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE WE'RE ADOPTING THIS YET.

UH, JENNY, WHEN WOULD THAT HAPPEN? WHICH MEETING WOULD WE ADOPT THE SCHEDULE SO WE COULD ADOPT IT TODAY? UM, IF YOU, IF YOU ALL FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, I INTRODUCED IT AT THE LAST MEETING, RECEIVED SOME FEEDBACK FROM SEVERAL COMMISSION MEMBERS, UM, AND MADE SOME MODIFICATIONS AND THAT IS WHAT WAS INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET, UM, THIS EVENING.

SO THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS TO NOTE THAT I WOULD DEFINITELY WANT SOME FEEDBACK ON.

SO AGAIN, IF WE NEED MORE TIME, WE HAVE, WE'VE APPROVED DATES ENDED FEBRUARY, SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE DON'T HAVE TIME, UM, IF WE NEED FURTHER CONSIDERATION, BUT I'M HAPPY TO ALSO APPROVE THESE THIS EVENING IF YOU, IF YOU WISH.

SO, UM, I GUESS I'LL TURN ATTENTION TO MAY, JUNE AND SEPTEMBER.

SO, UM, IN MAY WE ARE PROPOSING A TOUR.

UM, AGAIN, SO I GUESS PART OF MY QUESTION IS DO WE FEEL LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO ON A YEARLY BASIS? IF NOT, THEN I CAN JUST, WE CAN JUST PICK ONE OF THOSE DATES AND DO A REGULAR MEETING.

THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE.

UM, I MEAN, WE ENDED UP NEEDING TO SPLIT IT UP WITH THE NUMBER OF THINGS WE SAW.

I FEEL LIKE WE'RE FAIRLY CAUGHT UP AT THIS POINT, SO MAYBE WE WOULDN'T NEED TWO, TWO DATES SO WE COULD PICK ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE DATES TO BE ANOTHER REGULAR MEETING.

SO I GUESS I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK ON WHETHER YOU THINK ANOTHER TOUR IS WARRANTED AT THIS POINT.

I ORIGINALLY HAD THAT IN THE FALL, BUT THEN WE HAD TO WAY TOO MANY THINGS CRAMMED IN THERE, SO I MOVED IT UP.

FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, I THINK.

SO AS A REGULAR IT FOSTERS A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF CONVERSATION.

INDEPENDENT OF, YOU KNOW, WITH CASE STUDIES, BUT INDEPENDENT OF MM-HMM.

A A CASE.

UM, OKAY.

MY ONLY, MY ONLY COMMENT, WE'RE ONLY SIX MONTHS AWAY FROM THAT RIGHT NOW.

AND SO, UH, I SEE, I SEE VALUE, ESPECIALLY AS WE HAVE NEW MEMBERS MM-HMM.

AS WE HAVE KIND OF THE MIX UP OF THE COMMISSION, RIGHT? 'CAUSE IT'S NOT JUST THE NEW MEMBERS WHO ARE, WHO ARE YEP.

WHO LEARN FROM THAT.

IT'S ALSO THE, YOU KNOW, LIKE MY, HEY, WE NEED TO PAY MORE PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO SOME OF THESE MATERIALS.

AND I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION FOR FIVE YEARS MM-HMM.

UH, BUT I DO THINK THAT MAYBE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW IS TOO SOON.

TOO SOON.

ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE BREADTH, HOW MANY MM-HMM.

PROPERTIES WE JUST TOURED.

HEY, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE IN PUBLIC MEETING, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A DISCUSSION.

UM, I DO.

MAYBE WE HAVE LIKE A HYBRID APPROACH.

MAYBE WE HAVE IT, IT'S ALLOWABLE TWICE A YEAR, BUT ONE OF 'EM IS JUST A,

[03:00:01]

HERE'S YOUR HOMEWORK.

GO AND LOOK AT THESE PROPERTIES.

BUT I ADD ANOTHER FOLLOW THOUGHT TOO AND NOT, I KNOW IT'S OBVIOUSLY CREATING MORE WORK, BUT, UH, TO, TO DO A VIRTUAL TOUR OF OTHER COMMUNITIES OR OTHER AREAS THAT WE, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY IT'D BE GREAT TO GO OUT AND TRAVEL ALL OVER AND SEE PLACES TOGETHER, BUT I THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL SOMETIMES TO, IF THERE'S A COMMUNITY THAT WE'VE HEARD OF THAT'S DOING SOMETHING WELL TO JUST KIND OF, THAT'S WHAT'S IN FEBRUARY TRIP TO ROSEMARY BEACH IN EARLY DECEMBER.

PERFECT.

I WAS THINKING I'M NOT SWITZERLAND IN FEBRUARY.

WE'RE ALWAYS UP FOR COMMERCIAL TRIPS, BUT AGAIN, JUST A, JUST A THOUGHT.

I, YOU KNOW, IT'S WORK TO PUT THAT TOGETHER.

WELL, AND THAT COULD BE AN OPTION OF, IT'S INSTEAD OF A TOUR OF DUBLIN THAT EVENING, WE COULD PICK ANOTHER COMMUNITY AND SEE SOMETHING LOCALLY.

I MEAN, THAT'S DEFINITELY AN OPTION TOO.

SO.

WELL, WE COULD JUST PICK ONE OF THOSE DATES AND MAYBE, UM, YEAH, GO FROM THERE AND, AND JUST, AND AS WE GET CLOSER TO THE TIME, TALK ABOUT THAT.

AND IF WE DON'T THINK WE NEED IT, THEN WE CAN CANCEL IT.

THAT'S NO BIG DEAL.

UM, AND WE CAN ALSO KEEP IN THE BACK OF OUR MIND IN THE FALL TIME TOO.

IF WE FELT LIKE IT WARRANTED ANOTHER DUBLIN TOUR, WE COULD LOOK AT ONE OF OUR FALL MEETINGS.

'CAUSE SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON AGENDAS, WE HAVE AVAILABILITY.

SO, OKAY.

SO THEN IF, IS THAT AGREEABLE, I GUESS TO EVERYBODY.

ADDITIONALLY, WE'RE GONNA REVISIT THESE.

ALL RIGHT.

SO THEN MAYBE I'LL OPT FOR THAT MAY 23RD DATE FOR THE, FOR THE TOUR.

UM, BECAUSE I WAS ALSO TRYING TO HIT NICE WEATHER TOO.

UM, SO THEN LIGHTER AS WELL.

OKAY, SO THEN I, IN JUNE THEN I KNOW THAT ONE PERSON WILL BE ABSENT ON THE 13TH.

MY ISSUE IS THE WEEK BEFORE IS THE TOURNAMENT.

SO WE TYPICALLY DON'T LIKE TO MEET DURING THE WEEK OF THE TOURNAMENT.

'CAUSE THAT CAUSES SOME PROBLEMS. AND I CAN'T ADD A SECOND MEETING AT LIKE, FOLLOWING THE 20, WHAT WOULD THAT BE, THE 27TH OR WHATEVER THAT DATE IS.

'CAUSE THAT'S WHEN BZA MEETS.

SO WE EITHER UNFORTUNATELY HAVE AN ABSENT MEMBER OR WE JUST HA WE JUST MEET ONCE.

WHAT IF WE KEEP THE THREE DATES IN MAY AND CANCEL ONE OF THE ONES IN JUNE? DO YOU SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? I DON'T THINK THAT MATTERS.

I MEAN, OR, OR AGAIN, WE JUST MEET AND SOMEBODY'S ABSENT.

I MEAN THAT'S JUST SORT OF THE NATURE OF IT.

I I JUST, WELL, IT, IT'S ALSO NICE IF ONE PERSON'S ABSENT AND WE'RE CANCELING A WEEK BECAUSE WE HAVE THREE, THEN WE CAN PLAN THIS FAR IN ADVANCE.

HEY, WE WANNA DO VACATIONS, WE WANNA DO WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, DURING THE TIME WHERE WE'RE NOT MEETING.

WHY DON'T WE, YEAH, KIND OF PUT ON THE DOCKET MAY TIME PERIOD FOR REVISITING DATES SINCE WE'RE LOOKING AT 'EM IN NOVEMBER, THAT'S SIX MONTHS AWAY.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL LET'S KEEP IT AND THEN WE CAN REVISIT WHEN WE GET CLOSER TO THE TIME.

SO, OKAY.

AND THEN I HAVE THE SAME ISSUE THEN FOR THAT SEPTEMBER 19TH MEETING, SOMEONE WILL BE ABSENT.

WE COULD MOVE IT TO THE WEEK BEFORE OF THE 12TH.

SO THEN YOU'D HAVE TWO MEETINGS IN ONE WEEK 'CAUSE YOU'RE THE JOINT WORK SESSION.

AND THEN A WEEK IS ALSO THEN, SO AGAIN, WE COULD EITHER CANCEL THE 19TH BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE TWO MEETINGS.

WHY DON'T WE BE IN THAT ONE THINK, I THINK YOU KEEP 'EM AS, AS IT AS THEY ARE.

I MEAN, ONE AGAIN, ONE, ONE PERSON.

THAT'S FINE.

MISSING IS A REASON TO SORT OF LOAD UP ONE WEEK.

THAT'S FAIR.

I JUST WANNA BE MINDFUL OF KNOWING, WE'RE TRYING TO MAINTAIN OUR ATTENDANCE HERE TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN.

SO, AND AGAIN, I MADE WAS ABLE TO MAKE MODIFICATIONS TO ADDRESS OTHER 'CAUSE THERE'S OTHER MEMBERS THAT HAD HAVE ISSUES.

SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT.

SO IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THIS, THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND WE APPROVE THIS THEN, UM, THIS EVENING.

THAT WAY WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.

SO, SO MOVED.

DO I HAVE SECOND? SECOND.

THANK YOU MR. CHINON.

ALRIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR ANOTHER FUN FILLED THURSDAY EVENING.

UM, AND STAFF, YOU DID A FANTASTIC JOB.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.