* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE CITY OF DUBLIN'S ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD. HEARING. THIS MEETING IS BEING LIVE STREAMED. YOU CAN ACCESS A VIDEO OF THIS MEETING OR, UH, FUTURE MEETINGS FROM THE CITY'S VIA THE CITY'S WEBSITE, UM, FOR ANYBODY WHO IS WATCHING THE LIVE STREAM. THIS, THIS MEETING IS TAKING PLACE IN THE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS AT 5 5 5 5 PERIMETER DRIVE. UM, WE DO WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN OUR MEETINGS. UH, THE PROCEDURE FOR THE MEETING THIS EVENING, UM, EACH CASE WILL BE ANNOUNCED BY THE STAFF MEMBER. THE STAFF WILL GIVE A BRIEF REPORT ON THE CASE. APPLICANT WILL BE, UM, INVITED TO COME UP AND MAKE SOME COMMENTS. UH, THE BOARD WILL THEN ASK, WE'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK APPLICANT AND STAFF CLARIFYING COMMENTS. WE'LL THEN SEE IF THERE ARE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS. UM, IF THOSE PUBLIC COMMENTS COME FROM THE FLOOR, UH, YOU'LL BE ASKED TO COME UP TO, UH, TO THE MICROPHONE AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. UM, WE'LL SEE IF THERE ARE ANY ONLINE COMMENTS. AFTER ALL THAT WE WILL THEN DELIBERATE ON THE CASE AND WHEN APPROPRIATE, UM, PROVIDE A RULING, UM, WITH, WITH JUST FOUR OF US HERE TONIGHT FOR SOMETHING TO PASS. UM, YOU'LL, IT WILL REQUIRE THREE VOTES OF THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD THAT ARE PRESENT TONIGHT. UM, WE BEGIN OUR MEETINGS WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. SO IF, UM, IF EVERYONE WOULD STAND, FACE THE FLAG. JUDY, WE'LL CALL THE ROLL PLEASE. OKAY. MR. COTTER? HERE. MS. DAMER? HERE. MS. COOPER? HERE. MR. ALEXANDER? HERE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. [ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS and APPROVAL OF MINUTES] IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE DOCUMENTS INTO RECORD AND APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 28TH MEETING? SO MOVED. OKAY. I'LL SECOND. MS. DAMER? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. MR. COTTER? YES. MS. COOPER? YES. OKAY. OUR BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE REVIEW OF CONSTRUCTION AND MODIFICATIONS OR ALTERATIONS TO ANY SITE IN THE AREA THAT IS SUBJECT TO ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW UNDER PROVISIONS OF THE ZONING CODE SECTION 1 5 3 0.170, WE HAVE THE DECISION MAKING RESPONSIBILITY IN THESE CASES. ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO ADDRESS US ON CASES THIS EVENING MUST BE SWORN IN. SO IF THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE GOING TO ADDRESS US OR THINK YOU MIGHT ADDRESS US, IF YOU WOULD RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THIS BOARD? OKAY. THANK YOU ALL. UH, BEFORE WE GET INTO OUR CASES, I WANT TO WELCOME A NEW MEMBER TO THE DUBLIN FAMILY. UM, THIS IS BAAM BATAR, HE'S OUR NEW DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PLANNING. BAAM. IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME UP AND JUST TELL US A FEW WORDS ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND. THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MY NAME IS BEAM BATAR. UH, I JUST STARTED LAST WEEK WITH THE CITY OF DUBLIN AFTER A LITTLE OVER 25 YEARS WITH THE CITY OF WESTERVILLE. AND WHILE I WAS THERE, I STAFFED THE UPTOWN REVIEW BOARD, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THIS BOARD FOR OVER 20 YEARS. I ALSO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR, UH, STAFFING THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND MANAGING THE PLANNING DIVISION IN WESTERVILLE. UH, VERY EXCITED TO BE HERE WITH THE CITY OF DUBLIN AND LOOKING FORWARD TO OBSERVING THIS MEETING AND HOPEFULLY PARTICIPATING IN SOME, UH, PROCEDURES IN THE FUTURE. WELCOME. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, OUR FIRST CASE [Case #22-147] THIS EVENING IS CASE NUMBER 22 DASH 1 47. THIS IS 36 40 NORTH HIGH STREET. THIS IS A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW. THE APPLICATION IS A REQUEST FOR MODIFICATIONS TO A HISTORIC RETAINING WALL BETWEEN THE PROPERTIES AT 36, 38 AND 40 NORTH HIGH STREET. THE 0.46 ACRE SITE IS ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC CORE, AND IS LOCATED NORTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF NORTH HIGH STREET WITH WING HILL LANE. MS. HOLT WILL BE OUR PRESENTER. SO, SARAH, WHENEVER YOU'RE READY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. AND GOOD EVENING EVERYONE, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT INTRODUCTION TO THIS PROJECT. THIS IS THE 36 40 NORTH HIGH STREET WALL REQUEST. [00:05:01] THE PROJECT SITE IS OUTLINED IN YELLOW AND IT IS IN THE HISTORIC CORE DISTRICT. IT'S AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF NORTH HIGH WING HILL AND BLACKSMITH LANES MORE CLOSELY. THE PROJECT SPANS THREE ADDRESSES AND TWO SEPARATE OWNERSHIPS. THE WALL ITSELF IS SHOWN IN THE GREEN LINE HERE, AND THE AREA OF FAILURE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS APPROXIMATELY EIGHT FEET BY 20 FEET INDICATED BY THE RED CLOUD. AND FOR ORIENTATION, WE HAVE THE HISTORIC TWO STORY PRIVY IN THE GREEN BOX. AS WE UPDATE THE CURRENT COMMUNITY PLAN, CITY COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED THAT WE EVALUATE APPLICATIONS ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING INTERIM LAND USE PRINCIPLES. WE NEED TO NOTE THAT THE ZONING CODE AND GUIDELINES STILL APPLY AS OUR LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, BUT FOR THIS PROJECT, THE HIGHLIGHTED GOALS THAT APPLY ARE IN GREEN AND AS DESCRIBED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT, SOME HISTORY ON THIS PROJECT, THE BOARD HEARD AN INFORMAL REQUEST, UM, IN MARCH OF 22 AND SUPPORTED THE FOLLOWING ITEMS, THE HOLISTIC REPAIR OF THE WALL WITH THE ADJACENT OWNER WHO IS NOW INCLUDED IN THIS APPLICATION, RECONSTRUCTION OF THE WALL USING HISTORIC MATERIALS AND TECHNIQUES WERE MOST FAVORED. WE HAVE TO NOTE THAT, UM, WE DO NOT HAVE STRUCTURAL CALCULATIONS FOR THE WALL CONSTRUCTION YET. THIS APPROACH MAY NEED TO CHANGE BASED ON THOSE STRUCTURAL CALCULATIONS. UM, THAT'S SUBJECT OF A, A RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL THAT I'LL GO OVER IN A LITTLE BIT. AT THAT TIME, THAT SAME TIME, THE BOARD SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PARKING SURCHARGE, WHICH WOULD BE PART OF THAT STRUCTURAL SET OF CALCULATIONS, ANY LIMITATIONS ON A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO REPAIRING THE WALL AND SOME INFORMATION ON THE SUITABILITY OF THE EXISTING STONE. AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION, BUT PERHAPS THE APPLICANT CAN SPEAK TO THAT TONIGHT. THE BOARD SUPPORTED THE USE OF NON-VISIBLE MORTAR TO MAINTAIN A DRY LA APPEARANCE IF THAT WAS NECESSARY TO INCREASE STRENGTH. LOOKING AT THE CONTEXTUAL PHOTOS, UH, THIS IS THE PROPERTY AT 36 38 NORTH HIGH. THE PRIVY IS OBVIOUSLY ON THE LEFT AND THE FAILING WALL IS IN THE CENTER OF THE PHOTO. A MORE CLOSEUP VIEW OF THIS SECTION OF THE WALL, UM, SHOWS ON THE, ON THE LEFT, ON PHOTOGRAPH. THE PRIVY IS JUST OUT OF SIGHT OF THAT PHOTO, BUT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE SEWER OUTLET FROM NUMBER 40 NORTH HIGH STREET COMING OUT OF THE WALL. THE RIGHT PHOTO INDICATES THAT MOST OF THE ATLANTIS TREES, THE INVASIVE TREES THAT WERE AFFECTING THE WALL HAD BEEN REMOVED TO DATE. THERE IS SOME REGROWTH ALONG THE BOTTOM OF THE WALL ON THE 36 38 SIDE. THAT'S THE, UM, LONG FRONDS OF LEAVES. THAT IS THAT TREE. THERE'S A RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL, UM, REGARDING PREVENTING THAT, UM, REGROWTH OF PLANTS. AND WE'VE ACTUALLY ADJUSTED THAT TO INCLUDE BOTH OWNERS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION TONIGHT. AND THAT IS TO PROTECT THIS HISTORIC OBJECT FROM BOTH SIDES. AND THEN THIS IS A VIEW OF THE WALL FACING EAST BEHIND THE 40 NORTH HIGH STREET PROPERTY. IF YOU'LL REMEMBER, THE PARKING SITS ON TOP OF THE WALL HERE. AND AGAIN, WE HAVE THE SEWER PIPE COMING OUT OF THE WALL ON THE LEFT. AND THEN ALSO NOTE THE CHARACTER OF THE INTACT WALL, UH, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, AND ESPECIALLY THOSE TOP BLOCKS, THOSE CAPSTONE BLOCKS THAT ARE TO BE MATCHED NOW ACCORDING TO THE NEW PLANS. SO TAKING A LOOK AT THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN, THE WALL UNDER CONSIDERATION IS HIGHLIGHTED IN GREEN ON THIS SLIDE. THE PROPOSED PROJECT AREA IS IN YELLOW, AND THEN THE PRIVY IS IN THE GREEN BOX AGAIN. SO WHAT ISN'T SHOWN BUT WAS PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED AND ARE NOW [00:10:01] SUBJECT TO RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL TONIGHT, INCLUDE THE SANITARY SEWER SERVICE FROM THE WALL TO BLACKSMITH LANE, A UTILITY DRAWING FOR BOTH THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED UNDER AND ABOVE GROUND UTILITIES TO ENSURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONFLICTS. AND IF WE DO, HOW ARE WE GONNA RESOLVE THEM? THE EXPOSED SEWER PIPE RELOCATION. AND THAT IS TO BE DETERMINED DURING THE WALL RECONSTRUCTION DUE TO PO POTENTIAL BEDROCK BEHIND THAT WALL. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL HOW THAT SEWER LINE SHOULD REALLY BE CONFIGURED UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT'S BEHIND THAT WALL. SO, UM, THAT CONDITION OF APPROVAL TAKES CARE OF THAT EVENTUALITY. LOOKING AT THE PROJECT AREA, BOTH IN PLAN AND SECTION VIEW AT THE SAME TIME, THE AREA HIGHLIGHTED HERE IN YELLOW IS THE FRENCH DRAIN THAT WILL BE BACKFILLED WITH P GRAVEL. AND THE UNDERGROUND DRAIN PIPE IS SHOWN IN BLUE WITH AN OUTLET ON THE WALL. THE NEXT AREA THAT IS TO BE BACKFILLED, UM, WITH EARTH OR CLAY AND GRAVEL AT THE BOTTOM, UM, IS AT THE BASE OF THE WALL. AND THIS ALSO HAS AN UNDERGROUND DRAIN NOTED IN BLUE WITH AN OUTLET ON THE WALL. THERE ARE THREE WHEEL STOPS INDICATED IN YELLOW, AND THIS IS TO MINIMIZE THE VEHICULAR SURCHARGE ON TOP OF THE REPAIRED WALL. THE RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL READS THAT THE RED WHEEL STOPS ON THE NORTH SOUTH PORTION OF THE WALL ALSO NEED TO BE SHOWN. AND SINCE AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE THOSE STRUCTURAL CALCULATIONS, THOSE WHEEL STOPS MAY NEED TO BE MOVED BASED ON THOSE CALCULATIONS. SO WE'RE CAPTURING THAT EVENTUALITY AS WELL. AND FINALLY, THE APPLICANT HAS NOW INDICATED THAT THOSE CAPSTONES THAT I POINTED OUT EARLIER SHALL BE INCLUDED TO MATCH THOSE OF THE EXISTING WALL. THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED A VARIETY OF SCUPPERS AND SPLASH BLOCKS TO CONSIDER. UH, THESE ARE ALL REPRESENTATIVE AND NONE HAVE BEEN SPECIFIED, AND THEY'RE REALLY ALL TOO FANCY FOR THIS VERY VERNACULAR WALL AND THE DISTRICT CHARACTER. SO A RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL IS FOR A SIMPLE VERNACULAR DETAIL TO BE PROVIDED AT BUILDING PERMIT THAT STAFF WILL APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW APPROVAL CRITERIA, HAVE EITHER BEEN MET OR MET WITH CONDITIONS OR ARE NOT APPLICABLE. AND WE ARE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE MINOR PROJECT WITH THE CONDITIONS NOTED IN YOUR REPORT. AND TO SUMMARIZE, UM, AGAIN, WE NEED THE STRUCTURAL CALCULATIONS NOTING THAT SHOULD A MORE CONVENTIONAL WALL BE REQUIRED TO MAKE THESE CALCULATIONS WORK, UM, THAT SHALL BE PERMITTED WITH STAFF'S APPROVAL. UH, THE SECOND CONDITION IS THE WHEEL STOP LOCATIONS, INCLUDING THOSE RUNNING NORTH AND SOUTH. THE THIRD IS TO SHOW THE SANITARY SEWER TO THE MAIN IN BLACKSMITH. THE FOURTH IS PROVIDING A UTILITY DRAWING FOR EVALUATION AND ANALYSIS AT BUILDING PERMIT. THE FIFTH REGARDS THE STONE SCUPPERS AND THE SPLASH BLOCKS AS PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED. UM, THE SIXTH TALKS ABOUT REROUTING THAT EXPOSED SEWER LINE TO THE BEST POSSIBLE, UM, CURRENT REQUIREMENTS BASED ON GEOLOGY YET TO BE DISCOVERED. AND THEN AGAIN, NOTE THAT CONDITION NUMBER SEVEN HAS BEEN ADJUSTED TO INCLUDE BOTH OWNERS RELATIVE TO THE MAINTENANCE FOR THOSE INVASIVE ATLANTIS TREES. AND WITH THAT, I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BOARD MEMBERS, ANY INITIAL QUESTIONS? I DO, I MIGHT UH, SARAH, COULD YOU GO BACK TO CONDITION NUMBER ONE? SURE. I JUST NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE DISCUSSION OF THIS. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU ENVISION HAPPENING SHOULD THE CALCULATIONS NOT ALLOW A A, A RECON, AN ACTUAL HISTORIC RECONSTRUCTION? [00:15:01] SO, LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. UM, BACKGROUND INFORMATION AS, AS WE HAVE FOUND OUT THIS IS A DRY LAID STONE WALL TODAY, WE WOULD NOT BUILD A VERY TALL SEVEN OR EIGHT FOOT RETAINING WALL JUST WITH DRY LAID STONES. AND A MORE TYPICAL WAY TO DO THAT IS WITH A CONCRETE FOOTER AND SOME KIND OF, UM, UM, STRUCTURALLY SUFFICIENT CONCRETE WALL, WHICH THEN COULD BE FACED IN SOME OTHER MATERIAL TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT. SO WITHOUT THOSE CALCULATIONS, NOW TO BE ABLE TO TELL US THAT THIS DRY LAID WALL CAN INDEED SUPPORT SEVEN OR EIGHT FEET OF EARTH, THE FRENCH DRAIN, THE UNDER DRAIN AND THE PARKING ON THE TOP, WE'RE SAYING, WELL, INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK YET ANOTHER TIME, WE WILL JUST GATHER THOSE CALCULATIONS AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT WITH THE IDEA THAT, UM, SHOULD WE NEED TO DO THE CONCRETE FOOTER AND WALL THAT WOULD BE FACED WITH SOMETHING THAT LOOKS DRY LAID TO MATCH THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF THE STONE, THE ORIGINAL STONES THAT ARE IN THE WALL RIGHT NOW ARE REUSABLE? WE, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, THE BOARD HAD ASKED THAT QUESTION LAST TIME, WE DID NOT GET ANY INFORMATION ON THAT. PERHAPS THE APPLICANT CAN ANSWER THAT. OKAY. AND, AND WHICH LEADS TO MY NEXT QUESTION IS IF WE DO HAVE TO DO A MODERN WALL FACED WITH THE OLD, COULD WE USE THE OLD LIMESTONE, RIGHT? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A, A GOOD QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YES, I AM SURE WE'RE GONNA HAVE MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU SHORTLY, SO OKAY. I THINK INITIALLY SURE. WE'RE, WE'RE GOOD. ALRIGHT. WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO STEP FORWARD? GOOD EVENING. UH, WEST DAVIS, UH, ONE 30 EAST CHESTNUT STREET, UH, COLUMBUS, OHIO, UM, WITH OSBORNE ENGINEERING. UH, APPRECIATE THE, UH, SUMMARY THERE, SARAH, AND THEN APPRECIATE YOUR HELP ALONG THE WAY, GETTING A PATHWAY FOR THIS PROJECT MOVING FORWARD AND APPRECIATE THE BOARD'S OPINIONS. IN OUR LAST MEETING IN MARCH WHERE WE HAD THE INFORMAL REVIEW, WE TOOK A LOT OF YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS AND INCORPORATED THEM INTO, UH, THE APPLICATION YOU SEE HERE TODAY. AND THEN I HAVE A FEW COMMENTS KIND OF TO FILL IN SOME OF THE BLANKS AND THEN I'LL BE AVAILABLE OBVIOUSLY WITH QUESTIONS AFTERWARDS. UM, DURING THAT INFORMAL REVIEW PROCESS, OBVIOUSLY WE DISCUSSED THE HOLISTIC APPROACH. UM, RIGHT NOW THE APPLICATION YOU SEE BEFORE YOU INCORPORATES THE REPAIR AND RECONSTRUCTION OF A, A WALL ON TWO PROPERTIES. SO ON 36, 38, UH, NORTH HIGH STREET, THERE'S A 20 FOOT SECTION OF WALL, UH, THE SOUTH FACING WALL WE'RE PROPOSING TO, UH, REPAIR. AND THERE'S ALSO EIGHT FOOT, WHICH IS MOSTLY ON THE 40 NORTH HIGH STREET, UH, PROPERTY, ABOUT EIGHT FEET OF THAT. WE'RE PROPOSING TO PREPARE, UH, REPAIR AFTER THAT UP TO THE KATCH BUILDING. UH, THE WALL'S IN PRETTY GREAT SHAPE. UM, WE ATTRIBUTE, UH, THE FAILURE OF THE WALL TO, UM, THE, UM, THE, THE STORMWATER. UM, MOST OF THE STORMWATER FROM THE 40 NORTH HIGH STREET PROJECT BASICALLY MAKES IT TO THAT CORNER. IT GOES EAST AND SOUTH, UH, TO THE SOUTHEAST CORNER WHERE WE'RE SEEING THE BULGING AND, UH, THE MAJORITY OF, UH, THE DEGRADATION OF THAT WALL. UM, SO THIS PROJECT IS IN COORDINATION WITH BOTH PROPERTY OWNERS IN COORDINATION AND, UH, TO REPAIR BOTH, UH, SECTIONS OF LAW ON THAT PROPERTY. UM, AT THE INFORMAL REVIEW, WE DISCUSSED A NUMBER OF THINGS, UM, THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO SEE WITH THIS APPLICATION, WHICH WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED. UH, ONE OF THOSE WAS THAT WE TO USE HISTORIC MATERIALS AND TECHNIQUES, UH, IN INSTALLING AND RECONSTRUCTING THE WALL, WHICH WE ARE SHOWING NOW. UM, WE ARE JUST PROPOSING TO REMOVE THAT 28 FEET PLUS OR MINUS, UH, OF WALL. UM, AND THEN PUTTING IT BACK IN A DRY LAID FASHION, UM, USING THE SAME STONES. I KNOW THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, IF THE EXISTING STONES ARE USABLE. UM, MOST OF THEM ARE, SOME OF THEM ARE DEGRADED BECAUSE OF THE STORM WATER FLOWING THROUGH 'EM OVER TIME AND, AND WHY IT IS BULGING. BUT THERE IS A, A GOOD AMOUNT OF STONE UP AGAINST THE EXISTING 36 38 BUILDING THAT'S BEING DEMOLISHED. THERE'S [00:20:01] TWO WALLS THERE USING THE SAME, THE SAME MATERIAL. SO WE HAVE PLENTY OF MATERIAL TO BE ABLE TO REUSE, UH, WHEN WE DO THE DRY, DRY LAID STACKING METHOD. UM, SO TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, THERE IS PLENTY OF MATERIAL. AND TO ANSWER ANOTHER QUESTION THAT IT IS STRUCTURALLY FEASIBLE TO DO A DRY STATE, DRY LAID METHOD, UH, WE CAN PROVIDE THOSE CALCULATIONS. UM, WE HAVE, WE HAVE DONE THOSE AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THOSE THAT THIS METHOD DOES WORK STRUCTURALLY. UM, AND THEN KIND OF TO TOUCH ON, UH, THE INFORMAL REVIEW AND FEEDBACK WE GOT BACK IN MARCH, UM, USING, WE ARE GONNA BE UTILIZING SOME MODERN TECHNIQUES. UM, THOSE TECHNIQUES, UH, THE BOARD HAD REQUESTED WOULD BE, UM, THAT THEY'RE NOT VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC OR, OR NOT VISIBLE FOR THE WALL, BUT WOULD ENHANCE THE OVERALL STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE WALL. AND ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE THE, THE DRAINAGE WE'RE INSTALLING. UH, AS SARAH INDICATED, WE'RE INSTALLING A TWO-TIERED UNDER DRAIN SYSTEM, UM, TO COLLECT ALL THAT, UH, DISCHARGE IT IS HEADING TOWARD THAT CORNER. SO WE'D BE ABLE TO ALLEVIATE ALL THAT STORM DRAINAGE, UH, THAT WAS PASSING THROUGH, UH, THAT WALL AND BE ABLE TO CAPTURE THAT AND BE ABLE TO HELP, UH, THAT WALL STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY, INTEGRITY, UH, IN THE FUTURE. UM, THE OTHER, UH, I GUESS MODERN TECHNIQUE WE'LL BE UTILIZING IS, UH, AND INSTALL P GRAVEL, UH, BEHIND THE WALL. UM, THIS IS JUST A NORMAL MODERN TECHNIQUE AND THEN IT, THAT IN TURN WOULD REMOVE SOME OF THE PRESSURES, UH, THAT WALL'S SEEING CURRENTLY, CURRENTLY, UH, IN ITS EXISTING STATE, THE WALL'S ABLE TO SUPPORT, UM, THE LOADS THAT ARE BEING APPLIED TO IT. UM, BUT TO ADD THAT P P GRAVEL JUST GIVES AN EXTRA, UH, SAFETY FACTOR, UH, TO TAKE SOME OF THAT LOAD OFF. UM, AS WELL AS PROVIDING SOME OF THOSE WHEEL STOPS MOVING THAT, I THINK, UM, WE HAD PROVIDED INFORMATION THAT THOSE WHEEL STOPS NEEDED TO BE AT LEAST SIX FEET AWAY FROM THE WALL, UH, TO KIND OF HELP, UH, UH, FOR, FOR THOSE LOADS. UM, BUT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THOSE CALCULATIONS TO SHOW THAT, UM, THE DRY LIGHT STACK METHOD IS FEASIBLE, UH, FOR THIS PROJECT. UM, OTHER THAN THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAD. UM, I BELIEVE THE MASON COULD NOT MAKE IT TODAY. HE WAS, HE WAS SUPPOSED TO, UM, JIM COX WITH VIC, UH, ART MASONRY, UH, WILL BE PERFORMING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE WALL. HE WAS HERE IN THE INFORMAL MEETING. UH, I PRETTY MUCH HAVE MOST OF THE BACKGROUND, SO I'D BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS. UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN IT UP. I'LL BE HERE AS WELL AS, UM, SOME REPRESENTATIVES FROM 40 NORTH HIGH. WE HAVE THEIR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HERE AS WELL. I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER AND CLARIFY ANYTHING YOU GUYS HAVE. THANK YOU. I HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS. DO YOU WANT ME TO START? YEAH, SURE. OKAY. WHERE, WHERE ARE THE SCUPPERS GOING TO BE AND HOW MANY WILL THERE BE? SO THE SCUPPERS WILL BE WHERE THE, UH, UNDER DRAIN WILL BE OUTLETTING. SO THERE'LL BE TWO OF THEM. UM, SO THEY'LL BE IN THE WALL ITSELF, CORRECT. RIGHT. WHERE THE OUTLET JUST KIND OF THE HIDE INSTEAD OF A MODERN PIPE STICKING OUT. WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE HIDE THAT AND KEEP THAT HISTORIC LOOK. OKAY. BUT AS, AS OF YET, WE DON'T HAVE A DESIGN FOR THOSE. RIGHT. YEAH. THERE, THE INTENT WOULD BE TO UTILIZE THE EXISTING MATERIAL THERE TO KIND OF DO A CUSTOM STONE SCUPPER. UM, THAT'S KIND OF THE INTENT WITH THE, UM, THE APPLICATION. UH, THERE'S NO DETAIL PER SE, BUT IT WOULD BE TO UTILIZE SOME OF THAT EXISTING LIMESTONE TO CREATE, UH, A, THE SCUPPER AND THEN B THE, UH, SPLASH BOX TO HELP WITH THE EROSION ADJACENT TO THE WALL. YOUR SECTION'S SHOWING A WALL THAT, AND IT'S NOT, THERE'S NOT A DIMENSION ON IT, BUT WHEN I TRY TO APPLY A SCALE, A WALL THAT'S APPROXIMATELY FOUR FEET THICK AT THE BASE, IS THAT THE WAY THIS WALL'S GONNA BE CONSTRUCTED? THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S OUR ASSUMPTION. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE WILL HAVE. SO THAT'S BASED ON WHAT YOU THINK IS THERE? CORRECT. OKAY. UM, WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT HAVING AN ELEVATION DRAWING, AND IT'S REALLY UNUSUAL TO COME TO AN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW WITHOUT HAVING AN ELEVATION OF WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS LIKE, DOES ANYTHING SPECIAL HAPPEN AT THE CORNER? BECAUSE AT THE OTHER CORNER, AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER, THE KATCH CORNER, THERE'S EITHER THE STONE IS EITHER PROJECTING OUT AS A RESULT OF DESIGN BUTTRESSING FOR THAT CORNER, OR IT'S A RESULT OF THE WALL BULGING THERE. SO DOES IT, SO WHAT GO, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TURN THE CORNER? YOU'RE SAYING SPECIFICALLY BY THE COAG BUILDING? NO, I'M ASKING. THERE AREN'T REALLY DETAILS AND THERE, THERE ARE AREAS THAT NORMALLY WE LIKE TO SEE. SO DOES ANYTHING SPECIAL HAVE TO OCCUR AT THE CORNER, LIKE AT THAT CORNER? UM, IN OUR OPINION, NO. [00:25:01] NOTHING SPECIAL NEEDS TO BE DONE. I THINK OUR, WE, WE ASSESS THE REASON FOR THE BULGING IS BASICALLY THE MAJORITY OF THAT STORM WATER HEADS TO THAT CORNER. UM, MOST OF THE, OR I GUESS ALL THE WALL AFTER WHAT WE'RE CONSTRUCTING ISN'T REALLY GOOD SHAPE. AND I THINK, UH, SARAH CAN PULL UP SOME OF THOSE PICTURES. WE'RE NOT SEEING ANY DELAMINATION NO DE DEGRADATION OVER ON THAT SECTION. UM, SO I GUESS OUR APPROACH IS TO ALLEVIATE THAT STORM DRAINAGE ISSUE, WHICH IS CAUSING THE BULGING OVER TIME. UM, AND THEN YEAH, PROVIDING THAT UNDER DRAIN WITH THE, THE STONE SCUPPER WILL ALLOW THAT DRAINAGE NOT TO PASS THROUGH, UH, THE WALL. UH, THE DRY LAID STONE IS INTENDED TO ALLOW PASS THROUGH, UH, DRAINAGE. UH, BUT THIS IS JUST ADDING AN EXTRA SECURITY MEASURE. UM, 'CAUSE WE COULD SEE OVER TIME THAT, THAT THAT SECTION HAS DEFINITELY FAILED BECAUSE OF THAT. HOW, HOW ARE YOU TYING THIS WALL INTO THE, INTO THE MORTARED WALL AND THE WALL OF THE PRIVY? UH, THAT MIGHT BE A BETTER QUESTION FOR THE MASON. I GUESS HE'S A NO-SHOW TODAY. UM, BUT I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, SOME TIE IN METHODS THERE. UM, IT BEING OVER A HUNDRED YEAR OLD WALL, THERE HAVE TO, THERE HAS TO BE SOME, UM, YOU KNOW, COORDINATION WHERE WE DO TIE IN. OR MAYBE IT'S, WE TAKE IT TO THE NEXT JOINT, UM, WHERE IT IS STEADY, BUT EIGHT, EIGHT FEET TO THE NORTH AND THEN KIND OF TIE IN FROM THERE. SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO INTERLACE THE STONE OR, OR HAVE STEEL RODS CONNECT OR EPOXY STEEL RODS IN, OR YOU DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA CONNECT IT RIGHT NOW, IS THAT RIGHT? UNFORTUNATELY, THE, THAT WOULD BE FOR THE MASON. AND, UH, HE IS UNFORTUNATELY NOT PRESENT THE, THE TOP COURSE, UH, AS WE GO BACK TO THE CORNER OF THE WALL OVER AT ATCH, THAT'S BEEN MORTARED. AND, UM, SO THERE'S SOME MORTAR ON THAT WALL, I'M ASSUMING IT WAS DONE AFTER THE FACT. UM, YOU, YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU DON'T THINK YOU'LL BE EXPOSING ANY MORTAR IF YOU USE THIS PROCESS, THIS DRY, DRY LAKE PROCESS EXPOSING MORTAR? CAN YOU CLARIFY? YEAH, YEAH. WELL YOU CAN SEE THE MORTAR SMEARED ACROSS THE STONE WHEN YOU GO OVER BY ATCH. UM, AT THAT CORNER YOU CAN SEE THE TOP COURSE HAS BEEN MORTARED IN, THERE'S SOME MORTAR DOWN LOWER AND IT WRAPS THE CORNER. SO I'M JUST ASKING, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, 'CAUSE FROM WHAT WE'VE HEARD, THAT THE MORTAR IS GOING TO BE HIDDEN IF THERE IS GONNA BE MORTAR. IS THAT ACCURATE? THE INTENT IS TO NOT USE MORTAR. I THINK BELIEVE IN THE INFORMAL REVIEW IT WAS DISCUSSED THAT, UM, MORTAR WOULD ONLY BE USED KIND OF TO HELP FOR STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY. INTEGRITY. SO IT'S GONNA BE USED SPARINGLY ON, ON THE DRY STACK WALL, UM, AND IN AREAS PROBABLY BEHIND THE WALL. SO IT'S NOT SEEN, UH, FROM THE FACE. COULD YOU PROVIDE OUR BOARD, BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S REAL SKEPTICISM ABOUT BUILDING DRY LAID STONE WALLS, AND THAT'S NOT JUST COMING FROM AN ARCHITECT. UM, BUT UM, COULD YOU PROVIDE US EXAMPLES OF PROJECTS THAT YOU'VE DESIGNED THAT MEET THE CODE AND THE LENGTH OF TIME THEY'VE BEEN STANDING? UM, I WOULD ASSUME WE'D BE ABLE TO GET THAT PROVIDED BY JIM COX, THE MASON. I, I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE BE HELPFUL BECAUSE I THINK WE'LL SEE WHEN THE, WHEN THE FIGURES COME IN. BUT I I'M GONNA ASK FOR YOUR, WELL, I'M NOT GONNA SAY ANYTHING ELSE RIGHT NOW, BUT WE'LL SEE WHEN YOUR FIGURES COME IN. I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR IF, UM, MR. COY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE LISTED AS ONE OF THE APPLICANTS. CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION PLEASE? BERNIE COY 900 FOX CREEK ROAD, SUNBURY, OHIO, UH, STRUCTURAL ENGINEER. THE REASON I'M, I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS QUESTION IS WE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM YOU. THIS WAS NOT WHEN WE HAD THE INFORMAL REVIEW, BUT THIS IS WHEN WE HAD THE EARLIER REVIEW. UM, AND DAN MORGAN WAS HERE REPRESENTING YOUR CLIENT WITH A POTENTIAL PROJECT. AND YOUR LETTER THAT'S IN OUR PACKET STATES THAT YOU RECOMMEND A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL TO, TO BE BUILT TO, UM, SUPPORT THE EXISTING WALL OR TO PROTECT THE EXISTING WALL. IS THAT, IS THAT ACCURATE? CORRECT. AND YOU STILL RECOMMEND THAT THERE IS MANY OPTIONS TO GO WITH, WITH THE REBUILD OF THIS WALL? CURRENT METHODS OR MORE MODERN METHODS WOULD BE TO GO WITH A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL LIKE YOU NORMALLY SEE. MM-HMM. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY MAINTENANCE. YOU BUILD IT, YOU MAKE SURE IT'S BUILT CORRECTLY AND WATER WILL WILL WORK ITS WAY THROUGH AND IT'LL STAND THERE FOR THE LIFETIME OF THE, [00:30:01] THE WALL. WITH A DRIED, UH, STACK WALL. THERE WILL NEED TO BE MAINTENANCE AND MAKE SURE THAT IF ANYTHING DOES SHIFT AROUND A LITTLE BIT, IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. SO EITHER OPTION COULD BE VIABLE AND IT DEPENDS ON THE MAINTENANCE OF THE WALL ITSELF AS WELL. SO YOUR, YOUR RECOMMENDATION AND, UM, WAS IN THAT LETTER AND AT THAT, IN THAT CONTEXT, WAS THAT RELATED TO THAT SPECIFIC PROJECT AND THE LOADS THAT MIGHT BE IMPOSED BY THAT PROJECT? 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, WE HAD A RETAINING WALL THAT WAS SHOWN A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL. AND I KNOW ONE OF THE ISSUES WAS THE COST, THE COST OF THAT. SAY THAT AGAIN. WELL, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND AT ONE TIME YOU, YOU RECOM AND THAT PROPOSAL WAS RECOMMENDED AND YOUR LETTER RECOMMENDS IT TOO. SO, UM, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE IF, IF, IF YOU WERE TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY, LET ME ASK THIS A DIFFERENT WAY. IF, IF, UM, 40 NORTH HIGH STREET WAS TO BE DEVELOPED IN THE MANNER THAT WAS SUGGESTED IN THE PROPOSAL, WOULD YOU NEED TO PUT IN A WALL LIKE THAT? A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL THAT IS AN OPEN, UM, I'LL ANSWER THE BEST I CAN. YEAH, THAT'S, I MEAN, I'M JUST THE, THE DRY, THE, THE MORE CONVENTIONAL MODERN METHODS, YOU'LL HAVE BETTER LUCK FINDING A CONTRACTOR THAT CAN DO IT CORRECTLY. MM-HMM. , IT'S EASIER TO DESIGN AND IT'S, IT'S MORE COMMONLY USED A DRY STACK WALL. YOU NEED TO HAVE A GOOD MASON THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND THE SITE CONDITIONS MAY CHANGE AND YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADAPT TO THAT. UH, SO MY, MY INITIAL GO-TO WOULD BE TO GO WITH A MORE CONVENTIONAL ONE BECAUSE THE CONTRACTORS WOULD BE, YOU'D HAVE BIGGER POOLS TO, TO BUILD IT AND, AND USE THEM. UM, THERE IS, THERE ARE MULTIPLE OPTIONS FOR A WALL LIKE THIS. UM, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER ENGINEERING SITUATION. SO IT'S TOUGH TO SAY. I, I INITIALLY SAID YES. I WOULD SAY GO WITH A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY, LET'S DO IT. BUT IF IT'S, I DID NOT REALIZE IT WAS HISTORIC. UM, AND I ALSO DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE CITY OF DUBLIN HAD THIS MUCH INVESTED IN IT. IF WE WANT TO KEEP IT AS IS, I AM FINE WITH IT. WE CAN MAKE IT WORK. WELL ACTUALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. MORGAN EVER GOT BACK TO YOU, BUT THAT BOARD AT THAT TIME SAID THEY'D BE FINE WITH, IF HE HAD TO DECONSTRUCT THE WALL AND PUT A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL, UM, UP AND BUILD A WALL, THAT BOARD EVEN SAID IF YOU NEEDED TO, YOU COULD MOVE IT BACK A COUPLE FEET. UM, BECAUSE HE NEEDED MORE SPACE FOR THE TOWNHOUSES. SO AT THAT TIME, THE BOARD, THERE WAS SOME FLEXIBILITY AS TO, IN THAT PARTICULAR BOARD AS TO IF THE WALL NEEDED TO COME DOWN. 'CAUSE THAT WAS THE IMPRESSION THAT NEEDED TO COME DOWN. AND GRANTED, AND YOU WEREN'T THERE, WE JUST HAD YOUR LETTER AND DAN, DAN WAS REPRESENTING YOU. SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ALL THE FACTORS ABOUT WHAT, WHAT'S POSSIBLE HERE. YEAH. AND YOUR INTENT IN THAT LETTER. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. YEAH. UM, A DRY SACK WALL, IT'S BEEN, THEY'VE BEEN, THEY USED TO USE THEM BACK IN THE DAYS THEY'VE WITHSTOOD THE STAND THE TIME. UM, SOME ARE STILL STANDING, SOME ARE NOT . AND IT'S ALL BASED ON DRAINAGE AS WE'VE DISCUSSED HERE, IS MANAGING THE WATER AND MAKING SURE THE WATER DOES NOT BUILD UP BEHIND IT AND ERODE EVERYTHING BEHIND IT AND HAVE THE HYDROSTATIC PRESSURE BEHIND IT, THEN THAT WALL WILL LAST MUCH, MUCH LONGER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. DOES THAT HELP? YEAH. DID I, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I ASKED, I'LL ASK THIS A DIFFERENT WAY JUST TO MAKE SURE. 'CAUSE YOUR CLIENTS, I THINK BACK THERE AND I WANNA MAKE SURE HIS INTEREST, DOES THIS MODIFICATION PRECLUDE ANY OF THE WORK THAT HE WANTED TO, WAS CONSIDERING DOING? NO. NO. OR COMPLICATED. THE WORK THAT IS BEING PROPOSED WILL NOT HINDER ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE AREA OR WHERE WE ARE CURRENTLY. OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER, ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, MAYBE JUST FROM, WHO WOULD DO THE UC? NOW? I'M NOT SURE WHO'S DOING THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS FOR, FOR THE DR. SO, OKAY. IT'LL, IT'LL BE, UH, MR. DAVIS ALL, YOU'LL, YOU'LL, YOU'RE MAKING SURE YOU'LL DO THE, THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS FOR THE NEW WALL OR THE, LET'S SAY THE REBUILT WALL. ONE OF MY STAFF WILL, I'M NOT A STRUCTURAL, I'M A CIVIL ENGINEER, BUT WE DO HAVE A STRUCTURAL ON STAFF WHO'S LOOKED AT THE PROJECT. ALRIGHT. BECAUSE I, AS I THINK IS, IS, UM, AS WE TALK ABOUT HERE, I MEAN THERE'S TWO PROPERTIES THERE, RIGHT? SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT, THAT WHATEVER YOU'RE DOING, A ONE SOMEHOW SUPPORTS WHATEVER'S GONNA BE DONE ON THE OTHER ONE. SO, I MEAN, FROM A, I THINK AS GARY SAID, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S CONFIDENT THAT THAT DRY LAID STONEWALL IS GOING TO SUPPORT WHATEVER LOAD WE FORESEE ON THE TOP OF THE, ON THE PLATFORM UP THERE. BECAUSE IF THIS WALL COMES DOWN AND HAS TO BE REBUILT, THEN ANYTHING THAT'S DONE FOR THE PARKING LOT DOWN BELOW AND ANYTHING THAT'S DONE [00:35:01] FOR THAT PARKING ABOVE IS GONNA BE COMPROMISED. YEAH. SO THE COST SAVINGS THAT THIS PROPOSAL PROVIDES VERSUS DOING THE CONCRETE RETAINING WALL WILL, I THINK VANISH IF YOU HAVE TO REBUILD IT A SECOND TIME AND PUT IN A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL. SO, UM, AND I SEE A HEAD NOD OVER THERE, SO, I MEAN THERE'S A, THERE'S SOME RISK HERE. OH, ONE LAST QUESTION IS THE SEWER, I KNOW YOU DON'T KNOW IT'S THE DEPTH OF THE SEWER OR THE, OR THE HORIZONTAL LOCATION OF THE SEWER THAT YOU DON'T KNOW. IT'S THE DEPTH AND THE EXISTING LOCATION OF THE BEDROCK. SO THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THIS, IT'S STILL GONNA COME THROUGH THE WALL. IT'S A POSSIBILITY. YES. AND IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE IT LOOKS TODAY. CORRECT. , I THINK WE NEED AN OPTION TO SEE THAT. I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE WANNA, I THINK, I THINK THAT NEEDS, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CONSIDERATION IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS THING STICKING OUT OF THIS HISTORIC WALL THAT IT COULD HAVE LIKE PARTIALLY BLACK PLASTIC AROUND IT. I MEAN, THAT'S NOT GOOD. BERNIE. AGAIN HERE, UH, SARAH AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THE UNKNOWNS OF THE SEWER, THE SANITARY LINE AND THE BEDROCK. I THINK ONCE THE WALL HAS BEEN EXPOSED, THE GOAL IS TO MOVE AND HIDE IT BACK INTO THE WALL IN A SAFE MANNER. IF THAT'S NOT VIABLE OR IF THE BEDROCK IS RIGHT BEHIND IT, WE CAN'T PUSH IT IN. THEN TO YOUR QUESTION, WHAT HAPPENS AT THE CORNER, MAYBE THAT DOES BECOME A BUTTRESS AND ENCAPSULATES THE SANITARY LINE SO THAT YOU DON'T SEE IT. ALRIGHT, SO , SO HERE'S ONE MORE UNKNOWN. IN THIS PROPOSAL, THERE'S A LOT OF UNKNOWNS, RIGHT? SO I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF NOTES ON. SO IF WE DO DECIDE TO MOVE THIS FORWARD, WE MAY ADD SOME MORE CONDITIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CLARIFICATION OF, OF WHAT'S NOT CLEAR. YEAH. ALRIGHT. NO, I'M NOT I WAS ON, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IT AT THE BASE. I MEAN, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IT 'CAUSE THE WALL'S POROUS, RIGHT? BUT, SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE SCUPPERS, THE DRAIN PIPES, AND YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO DISCHARGE THAT AT THE LOWEST PART OF THE WALL. SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IT COME OUT AT THE BASE OF THE WALL. CORRECT. SO YOU'RE JUST GONNA HAVE IT. OKAY. SO YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO DISTRIBUTE, AT SOME POINT THE PIPE'S COMING FROM BOTH SIDES AND YOU'RE GONNA JUST PUT THEM IN ONE OR TWO SPOTS AND RUN IT DOWN THE, THE THE GRADE. CORRECT. THERE'LL JUST BE TWO SPOTS. THEY'RE ABOUT FIVE, FIVE TO EIGHT FEET APART. OKAY. AND YOU'LL SEE IN THAT CROSS SECTION WE PROVIDED WHERE, WHERE THEY WOULD COME OUT OF THE WALL, CORRECT. AT THE BASE. YEP. AND THEN FOR THE SEWER PIPE. NOW IN THEORY WITH THE FILL YOU'RE GONNA PUT IN, YOU'RE GONNA PUSH THE SEWER PIPE DOWN AND PUSH IT UNDERNEATH THE WALL IF POSSIBLE. CORRECT? CORRECT. IDEALLY TO GO ON, WE WOULD WANT TO GO UNDER THE WALL WITH THE THE SANITARY SEWER. CORRECT. ALRIGHT. AND THEN THE LAST ONE, SO IF YOU'RE GONNA ES YOU'RE GONNA EXCAVATE THE BEHIND THAT WALL, HOWEVER MANY FEET OUT OF WHATEVER IT WAS, SEVERAL THE FEET BACK THAT, SO YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THE WALL DOWN, ES PUT THE, THE FRENCH DRAIN, ALL OF THAT IN THERE AND THEN, AND, AND DRY LAY UP AGAINST THAT. SO YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA PULL EVERYTHING OUT IN THAT YOU'RE GONNA EXCAVATE IT TO EIGHT FEET DOWN, GOING NORTH AND, AND TIE IT INTO THE WALL AT THAT SPOT. SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THIS, UH, EXISTING CONDITION WITH THE KIND OF THE FRENCH DRAIN, ALL THIS KIND OF BUTCHER STUFF AT ONE SPOT, KIND OF EIGHT FEET GOING NORTH FROM THE, LET'S SAY THE SOUTH, CORRECT THIS CORNER. OKAY. YEP. OKAY. WELL I NEED SOME CLARIFICATIONS NOW, IF YOU WILL. UM, WHEN YOU SAY THAT THE, THE DUAL DRAINS WILL GO, THEY WILL DISCHARGE EIGHT, YOU'RE SAYING EIGHT FEET TO THE NORTH, WHERE CURRENTLY THAT DISCHARGE PIPE IS AROUND THREE OR FOUR FEET TO THE NORTH. IS THAT CORRECT? I THINK SOME CLARITY HERE. SO THERE'S GONNA BE, THERE'S THREE, THERE'LL BE THREE PIPES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. WE HAVE THE SANITARY SEWER, WHICH IS THAT LARGE SEWER THAT COMES OUT IN ELBOWS. THAT'S THE SANITARY THAT IS, UM, THE INTENT WOULD BE TO PUT THAT UNDERNEATH THE WALL ONCE WE DIG THAT BACK AND WE GET AN INDICATION OF HOW DEEP BEDROCK IS AND THE CONDITION OF THE PIPE, HOW WE WOULD ROUTE IT UNDERNEATH THE WALL. AND THEN THERE'S TWO ADDITIONAL PIPES WHICH WE'RE PROPOSING. THOSE ARE TWO UNDER DRAIN PIPES. THOSE WOULD COME OUT OF THE WALL RIGHT AT THE FACE OF THE WALL. AND THEN THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD BE INSTALLING THE STONE SCUPPERS TO KIND OF HIDE THE PIPE. UM, AND HISTORIC, UH, HISTORIC LOOK TO HOW, UM, THAT DOES DISCHARGE EXISTING LIMESTONE OR PIECES FROM THE OTHER PROPERTY. THE 36 PROPERTY. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO THAT PART, SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT I UNDERSTOOD WAS YOU WERE GOING TO DISMANTLE THE EXISTING STONE WALL WHERE [00:40:01] IT NEEDS REPAIRED, SET THOSE ASIDE, THEN GO IN AND REPAIR BEHIND IT TO IDENTIFY HOW YOU'RE GONNA RUN THE WATER, SURFACE WATER DRAINAGE OR THE WATER DRAINAGE AS WELL AS THE SEWER. AND THEN AT THAT POINT DETERMINE WHETHER YOU HAVE TO USE MORTAR OR WHETHER ONCE YOU'VE GONE IN AND ADDED P GRAVEL, ET CETERA, IT'S STABLE ENOUGH TO PROCEED TO GO BACK AND DRY LAY THE, THE STONE. AM I GETTING THAT RIGHT? MORE OR LESS? CAN YOU, UM, REPHRASE THE QUESTION? MAYBE. I'M SORRY, I'M FOLLOWING A HUNDRED PERCENT. WELL, I'M JUST HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF TROUBLE REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GARY WAS BEING CONCERNED ABOUT BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE WHOLE IDEA WAS TO TAKE THE WALL DOWN, DETERMINE WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE BEHIND IT, TO MAKE IT STRUCTURALLY SOUND AND SAFE AND NOT HAVE IT COLLAPSE. AND IF MORTAR WAS DETERMINED TO BE NEEDED THAT IT WOULD BE ADDED, SAY THE WALL IS CURRENTLY HERE, IT WOULD BE ADDED IN, THEN THE BRICK WOULD BE REPLACED WHERE IT WAS. SO THAT THE OUTLINE OF THE WALL REALLY DOESN'T CHANGE, IT'S JUST WHAT'S BEHIND THE WALL THAT WILL CHANGE. THAT'S CORRECT. YEP. THAT THE INTENT WOULD BE IF WE NEEDED TO USE MORTAR, IT'D BE IN THOSE BACK LAYERS. AND THEN THE FRONT LAYER, WE WOULD NOT USE ANY MORTAR. MIKE MARTY, MY QUESTIONS ARE ABOUT THE METHODOLOGY. IT'S, IT IS WHAT'S BEHIND THE WALL. BUT THE WAY, IF YOU WERE STARTING FROM SCRATCH TODAY, YOU WOULD BUILD THIS IS YOU WOULD BUILD A CONCRETE WALL BEHIND IT. RIGHT. SO, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE WALL. SO NOW I'M JUST ASKING. THAT'S FINE. I WAS JUST TRYING TO CLARIFY WHY WAS, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT TAKING THE WALL DOWN AND USING A CONCRETE WALL THAT WAS PERHAPS SUGGESTED BACK IN 19 OR IN 2020. I WASN'T A MEMBER OF THE BOARD THEN. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IN ANY OF OUR DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'VE HAD THAT WE DIDN'T THINK THAT THE, THE WALL SHOULD BE MAINTAINED AS HISTORICALLY AS POSSIBLE. WHEN WE GET TO DELIBERATIONS, I WILL TELL YOU WHY I HAD THAT CONCERN. OKAY. AND, AND I'LL, I'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY FINISHED RIGHT NOW WITH QUESTIONS. I I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION. OH, SURE. GO AHEAD. THAT'S ALRIGHT. EXCUSE ME. I MAY BE MIS UNDER OR MISREMEMBERING THIS, BUT AT THE LAST, AT THE INFORMAL REVIEW PRESENTATION, AND I, I HATE TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT WHEN YOUR STONE MASON ISN'T HERE, BUT I SEEM TO REMEMBER HIM BEING VERY NEGATIVE ABOUT USING DRY LAID AGAIN. HE'S, I REMEMBER HIM SAYING I COULD DO IT. I'VE DONE A LOT OF WALLS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA WHAT HAS CHANGED HIS MIND. AGAIN, I THINK THAT CAME FROM MORE OF A, YOU KNOW, EFFORT ON HIS PART THAT HE PREFERRED TO DO IT THE OTHER WAY AND THE DRY LAID METHOD HE DID ADMIT WAS POSSIBLE. AND WE ADMITTED THAT IT WAS STRUCTURALLY POSSIBLE AS WELL. I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE CAME FROM, AGAIN, JUST MAYBE PUTTING WORDS IN HIS MOUTH, UH, FROM THAT MEETING. BUT I THINK THAT MORE CAME FROM A, YOU KNOW, IT'D BE EASIER FOR HIM. UH, BUT NOT NECESSARILY OBVIOUSLY. 'CAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE, UH, THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE WALL, THAT THE DRY LIGHT IS THE METHOD THAT WE WERE ENCOURAGED AT THE INFORMAL MEETING TO GO TOWARDS. AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THIS PROPOSAL THE WAY WE DO TODAY. SEAN, DO YOU HAVE ANY I'M GOOD. I'M SORRY. YOU, WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU, SO YOU MAY WANT TO STAY CLOSE. . OKAY. UM, SARAH, HAVE WE HAD, IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS? OKAY. UM, HAVE WE HAD ANYTHING ELECTRONICALLY? WE HAVE NOT AND I WILL DOUBLE CHECK THAT. OKAY. WE HAVE NOT. OKAY. ALRIGHT, THANKS. OKAY. UM, TIME FOR DELIBERATION. NOW, I APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE APPLICANTS. I WASN'T HERE AT THE LAST MEETING BECAUSE I WOULD'VE BROUGHT UP SOME OF THESE SAME THINGS AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT MY ONLY, THE ONLY MEETING I MISSED IN FIVE YEARS, IT HAPPENED TO BE WHEN THE WALL CAME BACK TO US. SO I APOLOGIZE, BUT I HAVE, I HAVE TWO CONCERNS AND I'M GONNA ELUCIDATE FOR YOU, MARTY. THE FIRST ONE, THESE IS, THESE WALLS CAN BE VERY UNRELIABLE. AS MR. COY POINTED OUT. IT REALLY COMES UP TO, TO HOW, IF IT'S A DRY LA WALL, IF IT COMES UP TO THE SKILL OF THE MACE, AND I'LL GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES. IF YOU DRIVE NORTH ON OLD 3 15, 3 OF THE MOST BEAUTIFULLY DETAILED HOMES IN CENTRAL OHIO WERE BUILT ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO ACROSS FROM DELCO WATER [00:45:01] DRY LAID WALL. THE ARCHITECT HAD EXPERTS TO A LOT OF RESEARCH ON HOW TO BUILD THAT WALL. HE HAD SUPPOSEDLY A MASON WHO WAS VERY SKILLED AT THIS 30 YEARS AGO. THAT WALL IS ALWAYS FALLING DOWN THAT WALL. AND, AND YOU'LL SEE THEY'VE CHANGED THE DESIGN AS YOU DRIVE NORTH ALONG THERE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAINTAIN IT. ARLINGTON ON THE, UM, VERY CLOSE TO THE CORNER OF FISHINGER AND RIVERSIDE DRIVE, IF YOU GO UP, UM, IT'S ON THE, UH, SOUTH SIDE, IT'S NEAR A STREET CALLED KAYOKA. THERE'S A HOUSE THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S STONE ON A HILL. THAT WALL, THEY'VE BUILT THIS STONE RETAINING WALL. THEY'VE BUILT IT AT LEAST A COUPLE TIMES AND YOU CAN JUST SEE THE HILL PUSHING THIS WALL DOWN. UM, OUR CONSULTANT, WHEN SHE WROTE HER REPORT, SHE, SHE ALLUDES, WELL, THERE'S EVEN ONE RECENTLY. UM, I WAS TOLD BY THE STAFF, THERE'S ONE IN DUBLIN, IT ONLY SUPPORTS THREE FEET. IT WASHED OUT DURING THE RECENT REIGNS. SO IT'S A GAMBLE BASED ON, UM, THE SKILL OF THE PEOPLE INSTALLING IT. AND I'VE NEVER HAD A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WHO RECOMMENDED ME TO DO THIS. THE CONSULTANTS WE WORK WITH SAY IF YOU CAN BUILD A CONCRETE WALL, BUILD A CONCRETE WALL, BUT THIS WOULD BE LESS EXPENSIVE FIRST TIME. UM, SO I HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT THAT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THIS THING, WHAT THIS WALL'S GONNA LOOK LIKE. UM, AND I, I KNOW MR. DAVIS IS NOT, NOT AN ARCHITECT, PROBABLY DOESN'T COME TO OUR REVIEW BOARD MEETINGS MUCH, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE OTHER APPLICANTS SUBMITTED, THEY HAVE DRAWINGS OF WHAT THE WALL LOOKS LIKE AND THEY HAVE DETAILS OF SOME OF THESE KEY CONDITIONS. SO I WAS ASKING THE QUESTIONS LIKE, WHERE ARE THE SCUPPERS? YOU KNOW, AND WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE? UM, WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE KEY AREAS? SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE, WE DON'T KNOW REALLY WHAT, IT'S PRETTY VAGUE WHAT WE'RE APPROVING. AND I KNOW WHAT THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAS ASKED SARAH TO PUT IN THE DOCUMENTS IS HE'S GONNA TRY TO SEE IF THEY CAN MAKE THIS COMPLY TO THE BUILDING CODE. BUT EVEN IF THE MATH SAYS IT'LL WORK, IT'S STILL BASED ON SKILL, SKILL TO MASON. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, AND THEN, AND THEN THE SEWER, IF THAT PIPE COMES OUT OR SUDDENLY WE HAVE THIS BULGE IN THE WALL, THAT'S GREAT, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT LIKE WHAT, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TODAY. SO I'M A LITTLE, I I STRUGGLE WITH APPROVING THIS AND IT'S CURRENT FORM UNLESS WE WRITE EVEN MORE CONDITIONS. THAT'S ACTUALLY WHY I HAD A PROBLEM WITH CONDITION NUMBER ONE AND WHY I WAS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. IT SEEMS TOO VAGUE TO ME. UM, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF, NOT THAT I DON'T TRUST STAFF AND I DO TRUST STAFF, BUT WE'RE DOING IT. OUR JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE APPEARANCE OF THE ARCHITECTURAL DISTRICT OR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT STAYS A A AS NOT EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, BUT THAT THE FEELING IS STILL CURRENT IS STILL THERE. AND WITHOUT SEEING DRAWINGS, HOW CAN WE JUDGE WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE? NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT WE STILL ARE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF UNKNOWNS THAT THAT'S FOUR FEET OF WALL THAT YOU HAVE TO DIG UP TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHAT'S GOING ON THERE. AND MAYBE IT WILL BE REALLY EASY TO REPLACE IT IN DRY LAY. I, BUT WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU DIG IT UP. SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT UNTIL THEY DIG IT UP AND WHETHER WE COULD DO IT WITHOUT VERY GENERAL CONDITIONS ANYWAY, BECAUSE WE DON'T, WE, WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL IT'S BEEN DUG UP. I HAVE TO SAY ON MY SIDE, I'M A LITTLE LESS CONCERNED. I HAVE TO ADMIT, I MEAN, I, FROM A ARCHITECTURAL, I MEAN, WE KNOW WHAT THE STONES ARE GONNA LOOK LIKE, RIGHT? THEY'RE THERE. OKAY. GARY, YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN THE, THE, THE TALENT OF THE BRICK LAYER IS GOING TO BE VERY KEY HERE. BUT CERTAINLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAINTAIN WHAT THAT WALL LOOKS LIKE RIGHT. AT THE END OF THE DAY. SO I AGREE WE HAVE TO FIND THROUGH SOME, SOME, SOME, UH, CON CONDITIONS. BUT GENERICALLY WE KNOW KIND OF WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE FROM A STRUCTURAL STANDPOINT. WE STILL NEED TO SEE THESE CALCULATIONS. I MEAN, FOR ME THAT'S CLEAR BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE THRUST, THE LOAD THAT SITS THERE NOW IS HELD UP. THE WATER'S WASHING THIS OUT. IF WE CAN CONTROL THE FLOW, I MEAN THE HYDRAULIC FLOW BACK THERE AND THE FLUID MECHANICS BEHIND THAT WALL, I THINK YOU'D FIND A WAY JUST FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT AND THEN WITH THE WALL SITS IN FRONT OF IT, I THINK WE HAVE AN IDEA WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE AT THE END. RIGHT. WE, WE MAY NOT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHENEVER YOU TEAR IT DOWN, WHATEVER CONDITION WE PUT IN, THEY PUT IT BACK UP. IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE A HARD TIME WRESTLING AT A MEETING BEFORE WE TEAR IT DOWN. [00:50:01] SO I, THERE'S GONNA BE UNKNOWNS. I'M A HUNDRED PERCENT, I I FULLY, I FULLY AGREE WITH THAT. AND IF WE HAVE A UNSKILLED, UH, STONE MASON YEAH. EVEN, EVEN MORE CHALLENGES. BUT ENGINEERING HYDRAULIC, I THINK THERE'S A WAY, AND NOW I'LL LOOK AT, UH, MR. KUY AND JUST SAY, I MEAN I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO UNDERSTAND THE HYDRAULIC AND THE MECHANICAL PART BEHIND THAT TO ENSURE THAT THE FOUNDATION BEHIND THE WALL IS STABLE. I, I I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO FIND THAT. AND I THINK ALSO BOTH OF THEM ARE SAYING YES, THERE IS A WAY TO DO THAT. WE'LL HAVE TO VERIFY THAT THAT'S CORRECT. I AGREE. BUT I, I THINK THERE'S A WAY FORWARD AND THE WALL WILL COME UP AGAINST THAT. I THINK IT'S GONNA BE UNKNOWN, UNKNOWN EITHER WAY. THE SEWER PIPE ON THE OTHER HAND, OKAY, THAT'S A, THAT'S A CHALLENGING ONE, BUT YOU WON'T KNOW THAT TILL YOU TAKE THE WALL. I MEAN, YOU WON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL YOU TAKE THE WALL DOWN. RIGHT. AND THEN LOOK AT THE BEDROCK UNDERNEATH. SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S GONNA BE THE CHALLENGE ON THE, ON THE SEWER PIPE. IT COULD, IT COULD STICK THROUGH THERE. RIGHT. REGARDLESS, MY CONCERN IS WHEN YOU HAVE A MASON WHO SAYS, I DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING, BUT I'LL DO IT, THEY'RE SETTING YOU UP FOR, TO PROTECT THEMSELVES WHEN IT, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT THAT WAY. WHEN IT DOESN'T, WHEN IT DOESN'T WORK. SO THAT'S, THAT'S, AND LIKE I SAID, I MAY BE MISREMEMBERING IT AND YOU'RE SAYING YOU DO REMEMBER IT DIFFERENTLY FROM, I, I MEAN FOR ME, I'M SAYING I THINK IF, IF YOU HAD TO START FROM TODAY, YOU'D PUT A STONE, YOU, YOU'D PUT A, YOU'D PUT A CONCRETE WALL UP. I THINK THAT'S, I THINK WE'RE ALL CLEAR ON THAT. AND IF YOU DO IT, THERE'S GONNA BE, THERE ARE BETTER WAYS THAN DRY LAW. I LAID, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S CLEAR. THAT'S, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S GONNA BE THE PREFERRED METHOD OF TODAY TO, TO PUT A RETAINED WALL THAT'S SEVEN OR EIGHT FEET HIGH. I THINK THAT'S CLEAR. AND I THINK EVERYBODY'S SAYING THAT THAT'S NOT THE BEST WAY, I THINK ON OUR SIDE SAYING, OKAY, BUT WE WANNA MAINTAIN SOMETHING INSIDE OF THAT THAT WE THINK'S IMPORTANT INSIDE OF DUBLIN. SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIND THAT HAPPY, HAPPY SPOT IN THE MIDDLE TO ENSURE WE BE, WE WE'RE MAINTAINING THAT WHAT WE WANT, USING TECHNIQUES THAT ARE NOT WHAT I WOULD OR CERTAINLY NOT MODERN. THAT'S THE WAY I, I READ IT FROM THE, FROM THE LAST MEETING. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT YOU'LL SUPPORT THIS AS, AS OH, I THINK WE NEED, I THINK THERE ARE A FEW THINGS WE SHOULD PROBABLY TIDY UP IN THE CONDITIONS, RIGHT? TO MAKE SURE THAT FROM THE STRUCTURAL STANDPOINT, I MEAN THERE ARE A FEW THINGS. SURE. LET'S GET, I WANNA GET MARTY'S INPUT HERE AND THEN WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT, WHO WOULD SUPPORT WHAT AND HOW TO CHANGE THAT. WELL IN THE END WE CAN, WE ARE NOT WARRANTING THE STRUCTURE, WE ARE NOT WARRANTING ANYTHING ON THIS. WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR IS COMPLIANCE WITH THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES. BUT TO SAY THAT WE ARE WARRANTYING THAT WHEN THEY OPEN THE WALL AND THEY DECIDE, NOPE, WE DON'T NEED MORTAR, WE CAN JUST PUT IN SOME MORE PEA GRAVEL AND THAT WILL BE SUFFICIENT TO TAKE THE LOAD. WE HAVE TO RELY ON THEM TO MAKE THOSE CALCULATIONS. IF ONCE THEY LAY IT BACK IN 10 OR 20 YEARS AND THE WALL FAILS, THEY'LL HAVE TO BE MORE REPAIR. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE. BUT IF WE WANNA RECOMMEND THAT THEY DO SOMETHING MORE STRUCTURALLY SOUND TO BEGIN WITH BEFORE THEY LAY THE BRICK BACK SO THAT IT LOOKS LIKE IT DOES NOW, YOU KNOW, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. I'M JUST SAYING, I'M NOT SURE FROM THE MEETINGS THAT I ATTENDED, THERE WAS SO MANY UNKNOWNS AND THE FACT THAT THE SEWER WALLS JUST COMING OUT OF THE, OR THE SEWER PIPES COMING OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE WALL IS A LITTLE DISTURBING JUST IN AND OF ITSELF. THAT SOMETHING HASN'T HAPPENED TO THAT PIPE BETWEEN BEFORE. NOW YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S A COMEDY MOVIE IN THAT SITUATION SOMEWHERE. BUT, SO I DON'T KN I AM SAYING ONCE YOU OPEN UP THAT WALL, YOU TAKE THOSE BRICKS AND STACK 'EM OVER HERE TO PUT 'EM BACK AND YOU FIGURE OUT, WELL WHAT IS GOING TO STRUCTURALLY BE THE SOUNDEST WAY TO REBUILD THIS WALL SO THAT IT'S NOT BULGING SO THAT THE SEWER PIPE IS NOT DRAINING OUT ONTO THE PARKING LOT BELOW. AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY DRY LAY THE BRICK BACK ON TOP IN FRONT OF MORTARED WALL IS REALLY JUST A DECISION FOR THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WHO DECIDES IS THIS GOING TO BE STRONG ENOUGH FOR THE USE INTENDED? SO YOU'RE FINE, ESSENTIALLY LEAVING THE LANGUAGE OF ONE THE WAY IT'S, WELL THEY, I AGREE. THEY [00:55:01] STILL HAVE TO PROVIDE THE ENGINEERING CALCULATIONS. UM, ONE, ONE OTHER POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IS THAT IT'S POSSIBLE WHEN THEY REMOVE THE EIGHT FEET THIS WAY TO THE NORTH AND THE, OR ON THE EAST SIDE AND THE SOUTH SIDE 20 FEET THAT THEY MAY FIND, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO GO FARTHER. WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY REMOVE THAT AREA THAT'S BULGING IS WHAT WILL, HOW WILL THAT IMPACT THE REST OF THE WALL? SO THAT'S ANOTHER UNKNOWN. SHOULD ANY OTHER, UH, FAILURES OCCUR DURING THE RESTRUCTURING OF THE WALL, THOSE HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED AS WELL. OKAY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE FINE WITH THE LANGUAGE OF ONE. UM, AND OKAY, HILLARY, WHETHER I AGREE WITH THE LANGUAGE OF ONE IS YEAH, YEAH. I'M JUST, 'CAUSE I, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE THINGS, IT SOUNDS LIKE IF THERE'S A, I'M NOT GONNA BELABOR THINGS IF, IF THE MAJORITY, UM, ARE OKAY WITH THE GENERAL, UM, DIRECTION OF THIS. I'M, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH WITH THINGS, BUT I'M ALSO, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A VOTE HERE. SO IT'S, WELL I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. YOU, GARY, WOULD YOU PREFER THAT THEY BE REQUIRED TO BUILD A I I WOULD LIKE IF THIS OR TABLE THEN CAME BACK TO US, I WOULD WANT TO SEE ACTUAL EXAMPLES. 'CAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE I SEE ALL THESE THAT FAIL. I DON'T SEE THESE THAT WORK. SO I'D LIKE TO SEE EXAMPLES OF BOTH THE MASON AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE DESIGNED THAT SHOW US THAT THIS CAN WORK. 'CAUSE I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M FROM, I'M A SKEPTIC, YOU KNOW, SHOW ME. SO, SO FOR ME, I WOULD WANT TO SEE THAT THEN. AND I'D WANNA SEE THAT THE CALCULATIONS, I'D WANT THE BUILDING OFFICIAL TO TELL US THESE CALCULATIONS ACTUALLY WILL MEET THE CODE REQUIREMENTS. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS HERE. WELL, BUT, BUT IT'S STILL THE MASON SKILL. N NOT FOR THE, NOT FOR THE, NOT FOR THE, NOT FOR THE STRUCTURAL PART EXAMPLE, BUT THE EXAMPLES FOR THE, THE MASON HAS DONE IT. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE THING TO SAY MAKE THE MATH WORK. IT'S ANOTHER THING TO PUT IT TOGETHER. SO I WANT, I I I WOULD LIKE TO BE CO HAS TO BE COVERED ON BOTH. YOU WANNA SEE THE RESUME? I, I, I WANNA SEE PICTURES, RIGHT? AND THEN IF WE NEED VISIT AND LENGTH OF TIMES, 'CAUSE I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FAITH, BUT, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE GOAL, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THERE'S BEEN REQUESTS FOR THIS INFORMATION FOR A WHILE AND THIS HAS BEEN WRITTEN TO MOVE THIS ALONG. AND SO, AND, AND IF YOU WERE IN ANY OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICT, THERE'S NO WAY THIS WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THE INFORMATION WE HAVE TODAY. BUT IT'S ONLY THE GENEROSITY OF THIS STAFF THAT'S PUTTING IT FORWARD. SO, UM, SO WE, WE FEEL THAT THAT PRESSURE, BUT THERE'S NOT. SO, YOU KNOW, MY FEELING IS FINE IF, IF THREE OF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS AS IT IS OR WITH TWEAKS, THEN IT CAN MOVE ON. AND SHE, YOU SEAN'S SHAKING HEAD. SO HE IS, WELL, I MEAN I'M STILL NOT EXACTLY, I MEAN I'M NOT SURE IF WE COULD CONTINUE TO, I I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT WE GET TO EXACTLY. WE GET MORE PROOF THAT CAN BE DONE. THAT'S, I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S WHY I WANT TO SEE PROJECTS. I WANNA SEE ACTUAL ONES THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE, HOW LONG THEY'VE BEEN IN PLACE AND I WANNA SEE WHAT THE MASON'S DONE. BUT HAVING THOSE PROJECTS STILL DOESN'T GUARANTEE THAT THIS ONE WILL BE DONE CORRECTLY. NO IT DOESN'T. BUT IT, BUT IT SUPPORTS, IT SUPPORTS THEIR ARGUMENT THAT THEY CAN DO IT. THAT'S, IT'S ONE THING TO MAKE THE MATH WORK. THIS IS NOT LIKE POURING CONCRETE AND, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S THIS IS THIS, THIS REQUIRES A REAL ART BEYOND THE MATH. AND, BUT IF, IF, LIKE I SAID, IF, IF THREE OF YOU ARE OKAY AND IF I'M BELABORING IT, THAT'S JUST ME AND WE CAN, IT'S OKAY TO BELABOR WE CAN, WE CAN MOVE IT ON. SO, NO, THAT'S FINE. AND, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU RAISE VERY GOOD POINTS CARRIE. WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS THE LANGUAGE IN THIS CONDITION SHOULD A CONVENTIONAL RETAINING WALL, I'M ASSUMING THAT MEANS THE CONCRETE BLOCK WALL THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, YES, FACED WITH THE ORIGINAL STONE BE NECESSARY BASED ON THESE CALCULATIONS, THEN THIS SHALL BE PERMITTED WITH THE DEMONSTRATION THAT MORTAR BETWEEN THE STONE STONES SHALL NOT BE VISIBLE SO THAT THE FACE AS SARAH AND I WERE DISCUSSING BEFORE, WILL LOOK LIKE THE WALL OR AS CLOSE AS WE CAN GET IT TO THE WALL AS IT IS ONLY FIXED. UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW I ACTUALLY, I THINK I DO SEE IT, BUT HOW WHAT YOU ARE RE REQUESTING GARY IS ANY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THIS WILL GET US. BECAUSE IF THE STONE MASON, THE ONE THING THAT WHAT YOU'RE REQUESTING WILL GET US IS THAT [01:00:01] THE STONE MASON COULD DO IT THE ORIGINAL WAY, BUT WE STILL DON'T, WE'RE LEAVING THE DECISION UP TO THE BUILDING AND PLANNING STAFF AS TO WHETHER TO USE THE CONVENTIONAL OR NOT. WOULD YOU RATHER THE BOARD MAKE THAT DECISION? I, I, THAT WOULD BE EASIER, BUT I DON'T WANT TO, BUT I, I, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S A COST ISSUE HERE. SO I'M WILLING TO BE CONVINCED WITH MORE INFORMATION BECAUSE ALL I KNOW ARE THE FAILURES AND THAT'S, I'M WILLING TO BE CONVINCED AND THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR MORE INFORMATION. THERE ARE TWO TYPES. ONE TELLS US THE MATH WORKS AND YOU CAN MEET THE CODE. THE OTHER IS YOU HAVE PEOPLE EXPERIENCED THAT HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE AND DONE IT IN A WAY THAT'LL STAY UP IF THE MASON WAS HERE. THE OTHER QUESTION I WOULD ASK IS, YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY THERE'S A ONE YEAR WARRANTY ON A LOT OF WORK. HOW LONG IS THIS WALL WARRANTIED? YEAH, I ADMIT NOT HAVING THE MASON HERE MAKES THIS APPLICATION WEAKER TO ME BECAUSE IT'S REALLY IS DEPENDENT ON THE MASON SKILL. UM, AND NOT HAVING HIM HERE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE. AND I'M NOT BLAMING YOU ALL. IF HE HAD A CONFLICT, THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU COULD DO ABOUT IT. BUT, UM, IT DOES MAKE ME LESS INCLINED TO APPROVE IT JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE, THE PRIMARY PLAYER HERE TO, IN EFFECT, I DON'T WANNA USE THE WORD DEFEND HIS WORK, BUT PROMOTE HIS WORK IS PROBABLY A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT. BUT HAVING SAID THAT, AS I SAID BEFORE, IT'S STILL ULTIMATELY CONTEMPLATED IN CONDITION ONE. AND WITH THE CONTRACT, WITH THE BILL, THE, UH, MASON THAT, UH, IT BE CONSTRUCTED, IF THEY GO FORWARD WITHOUT A CONVENTIONAL RETAINING WALL, THEY HAVE TO, FOR THEIR OWN PROTECTION AS WELL AS FOR THEIR PERMITS, SHOW THAT THAT WILL BE SUFFICIENT TO ACCOMMODATE PARKING SURCHARGE. IF THEY DON'T, IF THEY'VE COME, IF THEY COME IN AND REALIZE, WELL THAT'S NOT GONNA BE STABLE ENOUGH, IT'S GONNA BE TOO, UM, UH, WEAK OR TOO, UH, JUST NOT STABLE AND THERE'LL BE, THERE'S A LIKELIHOOD FOR SHIFTING, THEN THEY WANNA GO FORWARD WITH THE CONVENTIONAL RETAINING WALL. THEY HAVE TO DO THAT AGAIN BEHIND THE LINE OF WHERE THE BRICK WOULD STILL BE RETA REPLACED AND THE MORTAR NOT SHOWING WOULD STILL BE A FACTOR. OKAY. LET'S, LET'S GET INTO THE THIS. SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE SUPPORT THIS, SEAN, YOU SUPPORT THIS AS, UH, THE, THE, YOU'RE TALKING, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONDITION, CONDITION ONE. YEAH. CONDITION ONE I SUPPORT. YEAH. SO YOU TWO? YEP. YEAH. OKAY. SO WE HAVE 3, 3, 3 THAT'LL SUPPORT THAT. UM, SO LET'S JUST GO THROUGH THEN THE REST OF THE CONDITIONS. SO, UM, CONDITION TWO, TWO AND THREE SINCE THEY'RE BOTH UP ON THE SCREEN. SO TWO IS RELATED TO ONE, I THINK, RIGHT? WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THE LOAD, WHEREVER WE PUT THE LOAD IS GONNA BE SUPPORTED BY THE WALL. SO, I MEAN, FOR ME IT, IT, IT REINFORCES NUMBER ONE ACTUALLY. YEP. ALRIGHT. CORRECT. OKAY, SO EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH TWO AND THREE. OKAY. UM, ALRIGHT. WHAT WAS THREE? SORRY, THAT WAS THE SEWER THOUGH. THREE IS, THEY'RE GONNA SHOW ACCURATELY WHERE THE EXISTING SANITARY SEWER LINE IS GOING. THAT IN AND OF ITSELF COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING. . WELL THAT'S JUST ASKING THEM TO DRAW THE EXISTING, NOT WHERE THE NEW IS GOING. SO THREE THREE'S ASKING FOR MORE DOCUMENTATION. THE DOCUMENTATION'S NOT ADEQUATE. AND SO THREE IS SAYING THAT WHAT, AND THIS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE, THREE IS SAYING THE DOCUMENTATION NEEDS TO BE MORE ACCURATE. FOUR IS SAYING, SHOWING ALL OF THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED. RIGHT. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT, IT, THE REST YOU'RE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH. 4, 5, 6, AND SEVEN. MY ONLY FIVE. FIVE IS THE TRICKIER ONE. RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU DON'T THAT'S THE ONE DETAIL THAT, THAT I WOULD SAY WE DON'T, THAT THAT'S, IF I WERE TO LOOK AT THIS ONE DETAIL, YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY, WHAT IS THAT REALLY GONNA LOOK LIKE? SO WE MIGHT HAVE TO SORT OUT HOW WE ENSURE THAT IT'S, ADMITTEDLY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT A HISTORICALLY [01:05:01] ACCURATE STONE SCUPPER LOOKS LIKE AT THE BOTTOM OF A, A RETAINING WALL LIKE THIS. WELL, IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO DEFINE, PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE GONNA BUILD IT OUT OF THE STONE THAT'S ON SITE. YEAH. SO I MEAN, I CAN SEE IT BEING LIKE MORE OF A GRATE AT THE BOTTOM WHEN THE WATER JUST FLOWS THROUGH WITH SOME SOMETHING AT THE BOTTOM. MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T ERODE. SO, BUT IT'S HARD TO, IT'S HARD TO STOP THE PROJECT AND SAY COME BACK IF WE'RE NOT TAKING OTHER STEPS TO TAKE A DELAY. AND IT'S HARD TO STOP THE PROJECT AND SAY, OH, STOP WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING THE WALL FILE AND COME BACK LATER IN THE MONTH AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE SCUPPERS. I THINK IF WE'RE NOT DELAYING OR TABLING, THERE'S PROBABLY NO OTHER OPTION THEN. YEAH. I MEAN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO KIND OF FIT IN, FIELD IT RIGHT. WHEN YOU SEE WHAT IT LOOKS, WHAT IT'S GONNA, WHEN EVERYTHING'S GONNA COME TOGETHER, NOW THE STAFF CAN GO OUT IN THE FIELD AND REVIEW IT. YEP. SO, OKAY. UM, DID THE STAFF PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE OF A AESTHETICALLY APPROVABLE SCUPPER DESIGN? WE LOOKED FOR SOME EXAMPLES, DID A PRETTY EXTENSIVE SEARCH ONLINE AND DID NOT COME UP WITH ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE APPLICANT HAD PROVIDED, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WAS ESSENTIALLY A GOOGLE SEARCH. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY IN THE DISTRICT TO POINT TO, YOU KNOW, TO SAY THAT USE THIS FORM OR CAN, CAN WE SEE THE PICTURE OF THE PROPOSED THAT WAS PROVIDED? THERE'S NOT ONE PROPOSED. WE DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE, WE HAVE PROPOSED ONES. WE HAVE TYPICALS. NO, IT WAS A PICTURE TYPICAL THAT WAS, I'M SORRY, TYPICAL. AND THIS WAS JUST A COUPLE OF ITEMS CHOSEN FROM WHAT WAS PROVIDED IN YOUR PACKET. YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THE ONES IN THE PACKET. THESE ARE SOME OF THE SIMPLER ONES. UM, OTHER THINGS THAT WERE INCLUDED WERE SORT OF COPPER OR BRASS THAT WERE COMPLETELY, UM, OUT OF CHARACTER WITH THE DISTRICT AND, AND VERY FANCY, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WOULD NOT SUPPORT. WE DO ENVISION USING THAT SAME STONE PERHAPS IN A, YOU KNOW, JUST A, A SIMPLE ONE PIECE HORIZONTAL, TWO SLIGHT PIECES VERTICAL. AND THAT MIGHT DO IT, YOU KNOW, ENOUGH TO GET OUT OVER THE BATTER OF THE WALL. I WOULD IMAGINE THERE ARE NO EXAMPLES BECAUSE THE DRY LA WAS SUPPOSED TO FLOW THROUGH THE ROCK AND NOT HAVE SCUPPERS AND DRAINAGE. MM-HMM. TUBES. EXACTLY. SO THERE, IT'S, IT'S WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY. IT'S WHEN YOU'RE COMBINING MODERN AND ANCIENT THAT YOU, OR NOT ANCIENT, BUT OLD THAT YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM. RIGHT. UNLESS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A GARGOYLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. PROBABLY NOT. OKAY, SO NOT HERE IN DUBLIN. IS THAT, SO EVERYBODY'S QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED REGARDING THE CONDITIONS. OKAY. SO DOES THE APPLICANT, WELL THERE'S, THERE'S A COUPLE. WELL, OKAY, THERE THERE SEVEN. SO THEY WERE ALL OKAY. DO YOU WANT THOSE BACK UP? OKAY, BECAUSE THE SIX IS THE ONE THAT UH, WELL, I MEAN THAT'S JUST SAYING WHAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING. YOU CAN'T SOLVE IT UNTIL CONSTRUCTION. YOU CAN'T SOLVE IT. BUT WE KNOW THE PIPE GOES THROUGH THE GROUND THIS FAR AWAY. I MEAN, IT, YOU, AT SOME POINT IT CONNECTS TO SOMETHING UNDERGROUND. RIGHT. SO I MEAN THERE'S GONNA BE THREE, THERE'S SOME, THREE OR FOUR FEET THAT SOMEHOW YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET DOWN THERE AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS. RIGHT? WELL THAT'S, THEY DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BEHIND THE WALL OR IN FRONT OF THE WALL. THAT'S, THAT'S THE CHALLENGE. IF IT'S, IF IT'S BEHIND THE WALL, THEN EVERYBODY'S HAPPY. IF IT'S IN FRONT OF THE WALL WHERE IT IS NOW, THEN THAT'S THE UNKNOWN MACHINE. YEAH. BUT THE PIPE COMES UP, GOES DOWN. SO THE, THE MAIN SEWER PIPE IS UNDERNEATH THE, THE DOWN THE GOING DOWN TO THE GROUND. RIGHT. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP WOULD, I MEAN, YOU PROBABLY COULD FIGURE OUT WITH THE, WITH SOME GROUND SENSING, UH, TOPOGRAPHICAL, YOU COULD FIGURE OUT WHERE IT IS. 'CAUSE YOU ONLY NEED TO MOVE THAT PIPE TO CONNECT IT. I MEAN, YOU NEED TO TRENCH OUT THAT TWO FEET. I, I, I THINK IS, IS HOW I SEE IT, RIGHT? THERE'S GONNA BE A TWO FOOT, I DUNNO HOW DEEP IT IS, IS THE PROBLEM. SO RIGHT. AND WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S BETTER. THAT COULD BE, THAT COULD BE KNOWN PRETTY EASY I WOULD THINK. I MEAN, FOR ME, NUMBER SIX, THE SEWER PIPE FOR ME IS NOT, WON'T BE, SHOULD NOT BE UNKNOWN. YEAH. HERE'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. THERE MAY BE ROCK MM-HMM. , BEDROCK RIGHT BEHIND THAT PIPE. SO THEN, THEN IT'S EITHER GONNA STAY WHERE IT IS OR IT'S GONNA STAY AT THAT ELEVATION AND IT'S GONNA STICK THROUGH THE WALL. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. IF THERE'S BEDROCK THERE, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT IF THERE'S, SO IT'S, THERE'S A GOOD POTENTIAL IT COULD STAY, BUT IF THERE'S BEDROCK THERE, THEN WE CAN'T BACKFILL IT. SO NOW WE HAVE, THEN, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE, THEN YOU'RE GONNA RUN INTO CONDITION NUMBER ONE. RIGHT. SO THIS IS, SO, I MEAN, I THINK FROM THAT STANDPOINT, THERE'S BEDROCK BACK THERE AND WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT A WAY TO FIX THAT. YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA JUST, AND IT SOMEHOW SITS IN A PLACE [01:10:01] THAT'S UNEVEN AND IS ALLOWING THE WALL TO COME OUT. NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, NOW THERE'S A, I WOULD SAY THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM. WELL THAT'S THE, THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING TABLE THIS THERE, IT'S GONNA SUPPORT THE LOAD, BUT IT'LL GO BACK TO IT'LL GO BACK TO ONE. IT'LL GO BACK TO ONE. IT'LL GO TO ONE. EXACTLY. IT'S THE, IT'S THE STAFF'S. YEP. SO IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T TABLE IT, IT JUST GOES BACK TO ONE. IT'S JUST, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GETTING. WE DON'T LEAVE IT TO THE STAFF. I THINK WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GETTING. YEAH, YEAH. YOU COULD GET A REINFORCED WALL, YOU COULD GET A COMBINATION OF THINGS, BUT THAT'S FINE. THAT JUST, JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE APPROVING. YEP. OKAY. OKAY. I DON'T AGREE. ALRIGHT THEN. UM, YOU SEE SEVEN, EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE WITH SEVEN? UH, YES. IT SHOULDN'T REALLY BE JUST EXCLUSIVE. THE, I'LL NEVER SAY THIS, RIGHT. INVASIVE A, HOW DO YOU SAY ALANIS, BUT IT SHOULD BE ALL INVASIVE SPECIES. BUT THE ATLANTIS ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT'S REALLY GOTTEN A FOOTHOLD IN THAT WALL. AND DESPITE THE REMOVAL ON 40 NORTH HIGH, YOU CAN SEE IT POPPING UP NOW ON 36, 38. SO IT TAKES VERY ACTIVE MANAGEMENT. THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO, THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO INCLUDE BOTH, UM, OWNERSHIP AND THE CHANGES ARE NOTED IN GREEN. WELL, WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY TO ADDRESS MARTY'S CONCERN SHALL ENSURE THAT INVASIVE SPECIES, INCLUDING ALI, TREES ARE PROACTIVELY MANAGED. YEAH. AND YOU MIGHT BROADEN THAT. 'CAUSE MR. CO'S COMMENT, IF YOU DON'T MAINTAIN THIS WALL, THEN THE WATER'S NOT GONNA CONTINUE TO MOVE THROUGH IT. AND, AND THEN YOU KNOW, IT'S A LACK OF MAINTENANCE. WELL, THAT ACTUALLY, SO, SO I WOULD BACK TO WATER. WELL, THAT NO ONE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT FUTURE MAINTENANCE. AND THAT WAS MAYBE WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU GARY, AND YOUR CONCERNS, IF THE STONE MASON IS NOT GOOD AND THE WALLFLOWERS FALLS APART A MONTH FROM, OR A YEAR FROM NOW, WHAT HAPPENS? DO THEY END UP GOING BACK AND PUTTING IN THE MODERN WALL COVER, YOU KNOW, FACED BY THE BRICKS AND OR THE OLD STONES AND WE'RE BACK TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE. DO WE NEED SOMETHING THAT TALKS ABOUT MAINTENANCE IN OUR CONDITIONS TO TAKE CARE OF THAT? I DON'T. WELL, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GUARANTEES, THEY'RE GONNA MAINTAIN IT. IF THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT INVASIVE SPECIES TREES, THEN, 'CAUSE THE GOAL IS TO PROTECT THE WALL THEN, AND WE DON'T DO THIS WITH PEOPLE'S HOMES, BUT IF WE'RE GONNA INCLUDE SOMETHING WITH TREES, WE ALMOST NEED TO BE MORE GENERAL OR YOU KNOW, WE, WE STRIKE IT BECAUSE, UM, BECAUSE IF IT FAILS THEY COME BACK TO US. WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AGAIN. WELL, SO, OKAY, ACTUALLY I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. IF IT FAILS AND THEY COME BACK TO US, WHAT WORRIES ABOUT, I'M SORRY MARTY . IF UM, IT FAILS AND THEY'RE LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES, THAT MAKES ME A LITTLE MORE NERVOUS. SO IF IT FAILS AND THEY COME BACK TO US, ALL RIGHT. IT'S NOT OUR EXPENSE, I HATE TO PUT IT THAT WAY. THEY'RE GONNA MAKE IT SO IT DOESN'T FAIL SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THAT EXPENSE. ONE HOPES AGAIN, UH, RESTATING THAT THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ASSUMING THE RISK ON THE REDEVELOPMENT. WE ARE ONLY LIMITING WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO WITH THE WALL. THEY CAN'T DESTROY IT, THEY CAN'T MOVE IT OFF. THEY HAVE TO RE RE LAY THE WALL. HOWEVER, I DO THINK THAT SEVEN WOULD BE BETTER IF IT INCLUDED ALL INVASIVE SPECIES SO THAT THERE ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE THAT TAKES HOLD THERE. IT HAS BEEN, PARDON ME, EXCUSE BEEN AT EDIT. OKAY. THANK YOU. I WAS LOOKING AT HILLARY AND LISTENING TO WHAT SHE WAS SAYING. SORRY. OKAY. I APPRECIATE IT SARAH. THANK YOU . ALRIGHT. UM, OKAY, ANY OTHER MODIFICATIONS? OKAY. APPLICANTS, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THIS LANGUAGE AS BEING PROPOSED WITH THE CONDITIONS OWNERS? OKAY. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. UM, SO WHY, LET'S SEE. IT'S BEEN SO LONG. ALRIGHT, SO LET'S, LET'S CALL FOR A VOTE. SO WE'RE, WE'RE STILL ON. OKAY. I'M OKAY. SO IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS MINOR PROJECT WITH THE SEVEN CONDITIONS? I'LL [01:15:01] MOVE AS AMENDED. THE SEVEN CONDITIONS AS AMENDED. I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WITH THE SEVEN CONDITIONS AS AMENDED PER OUR DISCUSSION. I'LL SECOND. MR. KOTTER? YES. MS. YES. STAMA SIR? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? NO. OKAY. YOU'VE BEEN APPROVED. ALRIGHT. [Case #23-021] OKAY. CASE 23 0 2 1 1 12 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET. THIS IS A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW. THIS APPLICATION IS A REQUEST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW TWO STORY RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A 0.26 ACRE SITE ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL. THE SITE IS LOCATED SOUTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET WITH PENNY HILL LANE. MS. SINGH WILL BE OUR PRESENTER. RODDY, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE ALL SET. THANK YOU AND GOOD EVENING BOARD MEMBERS. THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW AT 1 1 12 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET. THE SITE IS SHOWN HERE IN SOLID YELLOW LINE AND IT'S ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL. THE SITE IS LOCATED ALONG THE WESTERN BANK OF SCIOTO RIVER AND IS AT THE SOUTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF SOUTH RIVERVIEW AND PINENE HILL LANE. THE 0.26 ACRE LOT WAS CREATED IN 2021 WHEN THE SINGLE LOT WAS A SPLIT INTO TWO LOTS. THE OTHER LOT IS SHOWN IN DOTTED LATER LINE. THE PHOTOS HERE SHOW THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THE SITE. THE SITE HAS A SIGNIFICANT GRAY CHANGE FROM THE WEST TO THE EAST WITH A FLOODPLAIN ON THE EASTERN AND HALF OF THE LOT. THERE IS AN ONGOING CONSTRUCTION OF 1 1 10 SOUTH, 1 1 10 SOUTH RIVER VIEW, WHICH IS ALSO SEEN IN THE PHOTOS. AS WE UPDATE THE CURRENT COMMUNITY PLAN, THE CITY COUNCIL REQUESTED WE USE THE INTERIM LAND USE PRINCIPLES. THESE ARE THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES FOR ALL THE PROJECTS. HOWEVER, ZONING CODE AND GUIDELINES WILL STILL APPLY AS LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS PROJECT. THE HIGHLIGHTED GOALS AS SHOWN AND GREEN WILL APPLY. THEY ARE FURTHER DE DESCRIBED ON THE PAGE FOUR OF THE STAFF REPORT. HERE IS THE QUICK RECAP OF THE PROJECT. THE BOARD REVIEWED THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW APPLICATION IN JUNE, 2023. THERE WERE CONCERNS AND THE BOARD TABLED THE APPLICATION ON THE APPLICANT REQUEST TO FURTHER WORK ON THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. THE BOARD ALSO PROVIDED AN INFORMAL REVIEW IN JANUARY, 2023 AND FURTHER BACK IN OCTOBER, 2022. DETAILS OF THE BOARD FEEDBACK ARE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT. THE APPLICANT HAS FURTHER WORKED ON THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL TO CREATE A MORE COHESIVE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OF THE PROPOSED HOME. BETTER MEETING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CODE AND THE GUIDELINES. THE SLIDE HERE SHOWS THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN 1 1 12 SOUTH REVIEW HERE IS SHOWN HERE ON THE RIGHT, WHICH IS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE GREEN RECTANGLE AND 1 1 10 SOUTH THROUGH A VIEW ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN. THE SIDE TOPOGRAPHY REFLECTS A C SLOPE AT THE REAR, WHICH FACES THE CTO RIVER AND THE RED LINE HERE SHOWS THE EDGE OF C SLOPING. THERE IS AN APPROXIMATELY 15 FEET DROP FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE EDGE OF THE SEA SLOPE. AND THIS DATA HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM DISCOVERY. THE BUILDING PROFILE OR THE BUILT UP AREA IS HERE REFLECTED IN GRAY ALONG WITH A PERMEABLE DRIVEWAY IN THE FRONT. AND A LIVE GRAY SHOWS THE FOUR CAR GARAGE. THE PROPOSAL INDICATES 28% LOT COVERAGE AND THE BUILDING COVERAGE OF 25.36%. THE PROPOSAL DOES MEET THE LOT COVERAGE HOWEVER EXCEEDS THE PERMITTED BUILDING COVERAGE, WHICH IS 25%. A REVISED LOT COVERAGE WILL BE REQUIRED AT THE BUILDING PERMIT STAGE. AND THIS IS AGAIN INCLUDED AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL. FURTHER, THE CODE REQUIRES FRONT LOADED GARAGE SHALL BE A MINIMUM OF 20 FEET BEHIND THE FACADE OF THE FOAM. HOWEVER, DUE TO THE SIDE TOPOGRAPHY AND THE CV SLOPE AT THE REAR, THE FOUR CAR GARAGE IS IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE FRONT FACADE AND IS AT A SETBACK OF ZERO FEET. THIS WILL REQUIRE A WAIVER AS WELL. THESE ARE THE ISCHEMIC ISOMETRIC RENDERINGS OF THE PROPOSED HOME. IT SHOWS THE MASSING AND ITS RESPONSE TO THE SITE IN ALL THE DIRECTIONS. THE FIRST IMAGE, THE TOP LEFT CORNER SHOWS THE MASSING FACING THE SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET AND ONE CAN ALSO SEE THE MASSING OF 1 1 10 AND THE LIGHT GRAY SHADE AT THE REAR. THE OTHER IMAGES SHOW THE CYT TOPOGRAPHY AND APPLICANT'S RESPONSE TO THE CONTOURS, THE THREE GABLES AT THE REAR AND THE NUMEROUS DECKS AT THE REAR FACE. THE SCIOTO RIVER, THE FRONT HEIGHT OF BOTH THE NEW HOMES ARE VERY SIMILAR. HOWEVER, DUE TO THE SIGNIFICANT GRADE CHANGE, THE REAR [01:20:01] BUILDING HEIGHT INCREASES AT ITS STEPS DOWN TO THE SLOPE. THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE ROOF PLAN OF THE PROPOSED TWO STORY HOME. ON THE LEFT WE CAN SEE THE JUNE PROPOSAL AND A REVISED ROOF PLAN ON THE RIGHT. STAFF HAD EXPRESSED CONCERNS AT THE PREVIOUS A R B MEETING WITH REGARDS TO THE INCONSISTENCIES WITHIN THE PLAN AND RECOMMENDED A SIMPLIFIED ROOF PLAN WHICH COULD REFLECT A SIMPLE CAPE CALLED STYLE HOME. STAFF RECOMMENDED SOME DESIGN CHANGES TO ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS. THE UPDATED ROOF PLAN ON THE RIGHT SHOW A CONSISTENT WIDTH OF ALL THE DORMERS AND APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED ALL THE ROOF PITCHES WITH MEETS THE CODE COMING TO THE ELEVATIONS. THIS IS THE LEFT SIDE ELEVATION OR THE NORTH ELEVATION. THIS ELEVATION FACES THE 1 1 10 SOUTH RIVERVIEW STREET AND IS AT A SETBACK OF FOUR FEET, SIX INCHES. STAFF EXPRESSED CONCERNS WITH THE ROOF HEIGHTS AT THE REAR AND INCONSISTENT ROOF PITCHES. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF AND THE CONSULTANT RECOMMENDED A STONE FOUNDATION TO REFLECT THE INTERNAL FLOW LEVEL. WE CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT. THE APPLICANT HAS MADE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE DESIGN AND ELEVATION TO ACCOMMODATE THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS. STAFF FURTHER RECOMMENDS EXTENDING THE STONE FOUNDATION AS SHOWN IN RED HERE, WHICH COULD IN REFLECT THE INTERNAL FLOW LEVEL. AND THIS IS INCLUDED AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL SEEN HERE IS A SOUTH ELEVATION FOR BOTH JULY, JUNE AND THE JULY PROPOSAL. A SIGNIFICANT GRADE CHANGE IS VERY PROMINENT IN BOTH THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH ELEVATION. THE PROPOSED HOME TRANSITIONS FROM TWO-STORY HOME TO A THREE-STORY HOME IN JUNE. STAFF HAD EXPRESSED CONCERNS WITH THE REAR GABLE HIDE AND RECOMMENDED CONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE GABLES. THE APPLICANT HAS REDUCED THE CENTER GABLE HEIGHT TO MATCH WITH THE OTHER GABLES. THIS WOULD REFLECT MORE ON THE NEXT SLIDE WHEN WE DISCUSS ABOUT THE REAR ELEVATION. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF RECOMMEND SYMMETRICAL AND A BALANCED WINDOW PLACEMENTS AND THE OPENING ON THE FACADE TO BETTER ADDRESS THE GUIDELINES. THE APPLICANT IS NOW PROPOSING SIMILAR SIZE WINDOWS, WHICH ADDRESSES THE DISTRICT WINDOW PATTERNS. THESE WINDOWS HAVE A LOWER CELL LEVEL AND DOES NOT COORDINATE WITH THE FRONT LEVEL FRONT ELEVATION. SO THE APPLICANT NEEDS TO CONFIRM THIS AT THE BUILDING PERMIT STAGE IF REQUIRED. AND IT IS AGAIN INCLUDED AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL. THE REAR HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED HOME IS 35 FEET CODE LIMITS THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING AS 24 FEET AND A WEWA WILL BE REQUIRED TO SUPPORT THIS REAR HEIGHT. AS A COMPARISON, A WEWA WAS APPROVED FOR 29 FEET, FIVE INCHES FOR THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, WHICH IS 1 1 10 SOUTH RIVERVIEW. THE REAR ELEVATION OR THE EAST ELEVATION FACES THE STO RIVER. IT SHOWS A THREE STORY HOME WITH NUMEROUS TEXTS, BALCONY, SUNROOM, AND DORMER OPENINGS. ON THE LEFT WE CAN SEE THE JUNE PROPOSAL AND ON THE RIGHT THE JULY PROPOSAL. STAFF RECOMMENDED MATCHING THE GABLE STYLE AND THE SIZE OF THE THREE DORMER WINDOWS. AND APPLICANT HAS WORKED ON CREATING A MORE SYMMETRICAL AND A COHESIVE FACADE BY ALIGNING AND MATCHING THE PITCH GABLES. COMING TO THE MATERIALS LISTED HERE ARE THE LIST OF MATERIALS APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE. MOST OF THESE SAMPLES WERE AVAILABLE FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS AT THE PREVIOUS A R B MEETING. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE HARDI BOARD SIDING IN A SMOOTH TEXTURE IN ANONYMOUS COLOR FOR THE ENTIRE HOME. FOR THE TRIMS SOFFIT HEADER ANDS, THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE HARDI CEMENT BOARD IN SHOGI WHITE COLOR. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE CASA DSI TERINA BLAND STONE FOR THE WATER TABLE ALONG WITH TENNESSEE BUFF COLOR FOR THE MORTAR. ADDITIONALLY, APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE THE TAMCO HERITAGE AS FALSE SHINGLES IN WEATHERED WOOD COLOR, WHICH IS SHOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SLIDE. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE THE NORTHERN LIGHTING BERRY COLLECTION AND OLD BRONZE COLOR STAFF IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE FIXTURE AND ALL THE MATERIALS LISTED ON THE SLIDE. AND NONE OF THESE MATERIALS WILL REQUIRE A WAIVER. THE APPLICANT HAS PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED TO USE ANDERSON FX WINDOWS, WHICH IS NOT PERMITTED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT NOW PROPOSES TO USE ANDERSON 400 SERIES WINDOW, WHICH IS MADE UP OF WOOD AND VINYL EXTERIOR. A SAMPLE OF THIS WINDOW IS ALSO AVAILABLE HERE. THESE WINDOWS ARE PERMITTED WITHIN THE DISTRICT. HIGHWOOD DOES NOT MEET THE GUIDELINES SECTION 5.6 A. THE WINDOWS HAVE GROWN IN BETWEEN BETWEEN THE GLASS AND DO NOT REFLECT THE PATTERN OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS IN THE DISTRICT. THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WINDOWS ARE THE SIMULATED DIVIDED LIGHT MOUNTAINS WITH SPACES AND STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND USING A SIMILAR STYLE WINDOWS WITH SPACES FOR THE REAR LIGHTING. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE A DOUBLE-HEADED WALL MOUNTED [01:25:01] FLOODLIGHT WITH L E D BULBS. A SAMPLE PHOTO IS SENIOR ON THE SLIDE. THIS CHOICE DOES NOT MATCH THE HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND WORKING ON CHOOSING AN APPROPRIATE STYLE. THE MATERIALS LISTED HERE ON THE SLIDE WILL REQUIRE A WAIVER. THERE IS A PRECEDENCE OF APPROVAL OF ALL THESE MATERIALS. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE CLOPAY RUSTIC WOOD GARAGE DOOR IN A WALNUT COLOR. THESE DOORS ARE COMPOSITE MADE BY INSULATED STEEL ON BOTH SIDES WITH AN COMPOSITE OVERLAY. THE PROPOSED FRONT DOOR IS THERMA TRUE AND IS A COMPOSITE DOOR MADE FROM POLYURETHANE AND FIBERGLASS. LASTLY, THE DECK IS PROPOSED TO BE A TIMBER TECH IN SANDY BIRCH COLOR STAFF OPPOSED THE WAIVER FOR ALL THESE MATERIALS. THE PROJECT WILL REQUIRE FOUR WAIVERS. THE NEXT FEW SLIDES WILL DISCUSS THE WAIVER REQUESTS. THE FIRST WAIVER IS REQUEST IS FOR THE FRONT LOADED GARAGE SETBACK AT ZERO FEET FROM THE FRONT FACADE WHERE CODE REQUIRES A MINIMUM SETBACK OF 20 FEET. THE CRITERIA FOR THIS PAVERS ARE MOSTLY MET EXCEPT IT EXCEEDS TO 20% CRITERIA, WHICH IS DUE TO THE UNIQUE SITE CONDITIONS THE HOUSE HAS, THE REAR HAS A BUILDING HEIGHT OF APPROXIMATELY 35 FEET MEASURED FROM THE FINISHED ROW LEVEL TO THE MIDPOINT OF THE ROOF. A WAIVER WILL BE REQUIRED TO SUPPORT THIS HEIGHT. THE CRITERIA ARE MOSTLY MET, HOWEVER, IT AGAIN EXCEEDS TO 20% CRITERIA AND THE REQUEST IS FOR APPROXIMATELY 35%. THE GARAGE AND THE FRONT FLOOR MATERIALS ARE COMPOSITE AND WILL REQUIRE A WAIVER. MOST OF THE CRITERIA ARE EITHER MET OR NOT APPLICABLE. LASTLY, APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE TIMBER TECH DECK AT THE REAR OF THE HOME. CRITERIA ARE MOSTLY MET OR NOT APPLICABLE. LISTED HERE ARE THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW CRITERIA. THE CRITERIA ARE MOSTLY MET WITH CONDITIONS AND WAIVERS OR ARE NOT APPLICABLE. ALL THE CRITERIA ARE FURTHER DETAILED OUT IN THE STAFF REPORT ON THE PAGE 13 LISTED HERE ARE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE WAIVERS. STAFF RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF WAIVER FOR THE FRONT LOADED GARAGE SETBACK AT ZERO FEET. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF WAIVER FOR MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT OF 35 FEET AT THE REAR. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF WAIVER OF COMPOSITE GARAGE DOOR AND FRONT DOOR. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF WAIVER FOR THE USE OF TIMBER DECK DECK. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE MINOR PROJECT REVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS. THE LOT COVERAGE SHALL BE REVISED FROM 25.36% TO 25% AT THE BUILDING PERMIT STAGE. THE ELEVATION SHALL BE REVISED TO SHOW THE CORRECT HEIGHT OF WINDOW SILLS IF APPLICABLE AT THE BUILDING PERMIT, THE ELEVATION SHOULD REVISED TO SHOW THE NORTH STONE FOUNDATION TO REFLECT THE INTERNAL FLOW LEVEL AT THE BUILDING PERMIT. THE WINDOW MOUNTAINS SHALL BE REVISED TO ASSIMILATED DIVIDED LIGHT WITH SPACES BAR AT BUILDING PERMIT. THE APPLICANT SHOULD WORK WITH STAFF TO CHOOSE APPROPRIATE LIGHT FIXTURES FOR THE REAR OF THE HOUSE PRIOR TO BUILDING PERMIT. AND LASTLY, APPLICANT SHALL PROVIDE ALL UTILITY PLANS DETAILING THE SCOPE OF WORK TO BE REVIEWED, APPROVED, INSPECTED BY ENGINEERING AT BUILDING PERMIT. WITH THIS, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. APPLICANT IS IN ATTENDANCE AND WE HAVE NO PUBLIC COMMENTS. ANY QUESTIONS FOR RODDY? OKAY. UM, SEE YOU BOTH HERE. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD, ? YEAH, WE HAVE, HAVEN'T WE? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UM, IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS PROJECT? ALRIGHT, HAVE WE HAD ANY, UM, PUBLIC COMMENT? WE HAVE NOT. ALRIGHT. OKAY. UM, WE, WE DISCUSSED THE WAIVERS AT THE LAST MEETING AND I THINK EVERYONE WAS COMFORTABLE WITH THE WAIVERS. YEP. UM, THE DESIGN HAS CHANGED. EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE WITH THE REVISED DESIGN? YES, I AM. I THINK YOU DID A NICE JOB. YEAH. YOU GOT I'D SAY 90% OF ALL THE STUFF WE TALKED ABOUT. SO I THINK IT, IT WAS A GOOD JOB. YEAH. OKAY. APPLICANTS. DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE SIX CONDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN APPLIED TO? DO YOU NEED SOME CLARIFICATION LIKE ON THAT WINDOW SILL OR DO YOU NEED CLARIFICATIONS ON ANY OF THOSE OR? UM, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE GOOD. IT'S GONNA HAVE TO COME UP TO THAT WINDOWSILL. DAVID, JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF PLEASE. UH, DAVE JOHNSON 89 65 CODE DRIVE, PLAIN CITY, OHIO. OKAY. [01:30:01] UM, TYPICALLY THE WINDOWS ARE SET AT EIGHT FOOT TILE AND THEY'RE EIGHT SIX FOOT WINDOWS. SO THAT SHOULD BE A TWO FOOT SILL AND THAT'LL BE CLARIFIED IN THE PERMIT SET. SO YOU'RE OKAY THEN WITH THAT? OKAY. THAT, YEAH, THAT WAY THAT CONDITION'S WRITTEN. OKAY. I I THE 0.36 COVERAGE, THE REASON THE COVERAGE WENT UP, BECAUSE RODDY SAID THE DECKS ARE CONSIDERED NONPERMEABLE AND WE EXPANDED THE OTHER DECK, IT PUT US OVER BY 0.36. DIDN'T KNOW IF THE BOARD WOULD BE ABLE TO ROUND THAT DOWN WITHOUT HAVING US TO GO SPLIT SPLIT HAIRS AT THIS POINT. , WELL THERE IS SOME FATIGUE UP HERE. PROJECT FATIGUE MINE SURE. THERE AND HERE AS WELL. BUT I JUST, IT JUST SETS A DIFFICULT PRECEDENT IF WE SAY, WE'RE NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO COME BACK TO US WITH IT LOWER AND YOU CAN LOWER, YOU CAN TAKE IT OUT ANY PLACE YOU WANT, BUT IT, IT, YOU, IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT YOUR HARDSHIP IS. AND THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE THE RATIONALE THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TO, UM, PROVIDE THAT. I KNOW IT'S NOT A LOT, BUT, BUT, UM, I THINK THAT EQUALS MAYBE TWO FEET OF GARAGE DEPTH. SO IT'S SOMETHING WE COULD DO. YEAH. OR YOU COULD JUST, YOU KNOW, NIP AND TUCK. YEAH, I KNOW THE GARAGE. JUST DEPTH. LITTLE BIT OF GARAGE, LITTLE BIT OF SENSITIVE DECKS BIT YOU'VE, I KNOW WE, YOU TWEAK THE GARAGE AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S SENSITIVE SO IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'D BE TOO HARD TO NIP AND TUCK AND GET THAT, GET THAT OUT OF THERE. RIGHT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, I THINK WE'RE READY TO VOTE. UM, SO LET'S VOTE ON THE MOTIONS. OKAY. MOTION ONE TO APPROVE THE FRONT LOADED GARAGE WAIVER. SO MOVED. SECOND. MR. KOTTER? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. MS. DAMER? YES. MS. COOPER? YES. ALL HAVE MOTION TWO TO APPROVE EXCUSE. MOTION TWO TO APPROVE THE MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT WAIVER. SO MOVED SECOND? YES. YES. YES. OKAY. MOTION THREE. TO APPROVE A WAIVER FOR THE USE OF A GARAGE DOOR AND FRONT DOOR MADE OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS. I SO MOVE FOR THE APPROVER APPROVAL OF THE WAIVER. SEC. MR. KOTTER? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. MS. DAMER? YES. MS. COOPER? YES. OKAY. AND THE FINAL MOTION TO APPROVE THE TIMBER TECH DECK WAIVER. SO MOVED. SECOND. MS. DAMER? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. MR. KOTTER? YES. MS. COOPER? YES. OKAY. AND FINALLY. AND FINALLY TO APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT WITH THE SIX CONDITIONS. SO MOVED. SECOND. MS. COOPER? YES. MR. KOTTER? YES. MS. DAMER? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. YOU'VE PASSED . DO IT. I WANT TO THANK THE BOARD AND THE STAFF WITH WORKING WITH US. I PRE IT'S BEEN A LONG ROAD BUT I THINK THAT THE FINAL RESULT IS REALLY GOOD. SO THANK YOU FOR THE RE FOR THE REVISIONS. YEAH. YEP. YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING RESPONSIVE TO OUR CONCERNS. WE APPRECIATE IT. YEAH, I WAS SCRAMBLING THOSE FEW, FEW DAYS AFTER WE MET IN JUNE, SO IT'S ALL GOOD. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. ALRIGHT, BYE. OUR [Case #23-055] FINAL CASE, UH, CASE NUMBER 23 DASH 0 5 5 91 SOUTH HIGH STREET. IT'S A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW THE APPLICATIONS REQUEST FOR EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS AT AN EXISTING ONE-STORY BUILDING ON A 0.1 ACRE SITE. ZONED HISTORIC DISTRICT, HISTORIC SOUTH. THE SITE IS LOCATED NORTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF SOUTH HIGH STREET WITH PENNY HILL LANE. MS. HOLT WILL BE OUR PRESENTER. AND WHENEVER YOU'RE READY SARAH. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INTRODUCTION AND GOOD EVENING AGAIN, THIS IS 91 SOUTH HIGH STREET, A MINOR PROJECT REVIEW. THE PROJECT IS IN THE HISTORIC SOUTH DISTRICT. IT'S PART OF THE DUBLIN HIGH STREET NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THE BUILDING IS LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF SOUTH HIGH PENNY HILL AND MILL LANES. AND AS WE'VE DONE WITH ALL OF OUR PROJECTS TONIGHT, WE'RE TAKING A LOOK AT, UH, COUNCIL'S ADOPTED INTERIM LAND USE PRINCIPLES FOR GUIDANCE AND JUST BEING MINDFUL THAT BOTH THE CODE AND THE GUIDELINES STILL, UM, DEAL WITH [01:35:01] THE REQUIREMENTS. SO FOR THIS PROJECT, THE HIGHLIGHTED GOALS THAT APPLY ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN GREEN AND AS DESCRIBED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT. ON THE LEFT HAND PICTURE WE SEE A VIEW FROM SOUTH HIGH STREET. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL PART OF THE J EVANS RESIDENCE FROM ABOUT 1840. AND IN FRONT YOU SEE EITHER A HITCHING POST OR A BOUNDARY MARKER AND POSSIBLY A MORE MODERN PUMP. UH, NOTE THE GABLE VENT FACING SOUTH HIGH STREET, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT AND ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT MAIN ENTRY WHICH FACES PENNY HILL LANE. THE AWNING IS TO BE REMOVED ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. THIS IS THE VIEW FROM PENNY HILL LANE. THERE ARE SOME EXISTING BRADFORD PEAR TREES THERE THAT THESE TREES HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED AS NOXIOUS. UM, IT'S JUST A A POINT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES LATER ON. THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE REMOVED. NOW, UM, BEHIND THOSE TREES YOU CAN SEE A BUMP OUT PORTION OF THE 1990S EDITION THAT WAS ADDED ONTO THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. THE SITE WILL REMAIN LARGELY AS IS AND HERE WE SEE PARKING EXISTS IN TWO LOCATIONS ON THE SITE PLUS ONE SPACE ON SOUTH HIGH STREET. THE A D A RAMP IS TO BE RELOCATED IN THIS LOCATION AND THE TRASH ENCLOSURE IS TO BE, UM, CREATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. AND WE'LL DISCUSS THAT IN DETAIL IN A MOMENT AS WELL. ARCHITECTURALLY, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT CHANGES. UM, WE HAVE A ROOFTOP EXHAUST AND SCREENING REQUIRED FOR THE NEW EATING AND DRINKING ESTABLISHMENT. AND THEN ALSO IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT CHANGE IS, UM, REQUIRED, UM, IMPROVED FIRE RATING ALONG THE NORTH WALL. AND THEN FINALLY, LANDSCAPE SCREENING IS BEING PROVIDED ON THE WEST AND NORTH SIDES OF THE SITE. TAKING A LOOK AT THE ELEVATIONS, UM, THE EAST ELEVATION IS THE ORIGINAL 1840 STRUCTURE AND THE ONLY THING THAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS REPLACEMENT OF THAT GABLE VENT THAT I POINTED OUT EARLIER. IT IS TO BE THE SAME SIZE AS THE EXISTING GABLE VENT AND THE SIGN INDICATED ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THAT ELEVATION IS NOT FOR APPROVAL TONIGHT. IT IS PART OF A RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL TO BE COMBINED WITH A LIGHTING REPLACEMENT AT A LATER DATE. THE SOUTH ELEVATION ON THE BOTTOM OF THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE 1990S EDITION ON THE LEFT AND THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE ON THE RIGHT. AND HERE IS THE, UM, EXHAUST SCREEN ON THE TOP LEFT. ALL OTHER FEATURES ARE TO REMAIN AND AS MENTIONED THAT MODERN AWNING WILL COME OFF OF THE FRONT DOOR FROM THE BACK OR THE MILL LANE ELEVATION. WE SEE THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE ON THE LEFT AND THE 1990S EDITION ON THE RIGHT. THE TRASH ENCLOSURE IS ON THE FAR LEFT HERE AND THE EXISTING ROUND GABLE VENT IS TO BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER NEW VENT. AND HERE WE SEE THE EXHAUST SCREEN ON THE TOP RIGHT AND THE TOTAL HEIGHT OF THAT SCREEN IS GOING TO BE 17 FEET SEVEN INCHES. AND ACCESS DOOR WILL BE BUILT INTO THAT SCREEN. DID YOU SAY 17 OR 17? 17. THANK YOU. THE NORTH ELEVATION LARGELY APPEARS UNCHANGED. HOWEVER, AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, THE BUILDING CODE DOES REQUIRE, UM, SOME MODIFICATIONS TO ADDRESS FIRE RATING. AND WITH THAT COMES THE REPLACEMENT OF THE SIDING ON THAT SIDE. GUIDELINES SECTION 4.1 C DOES SUPPORT REPLACEMENT OF MATERIALS IN ORDER TO MEET SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS. THE SIDING ITSELF IS GONNA BE A TOPIC OF, UM, CONDITION AND FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE NEXT SLIDE. UM, ON THAT ELEVATION YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE NEW A D A RAMP ON THE RIGHT SIDE. AND THIS VIEW JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN TO SHOW THE TRASH [01:40:01] ENCLOSURE. TAKING A CLOSER LOOK AT THE SIDING, WHAT IS PROPOSED IS A NICKEL GAP CONFIGURATION. IT IS NOTED AS ENGINEERED WOOD ON THE DRAWINGS, BUT ON THE SAMPLE UP FRONT IT IS BOAL A FLY ASH PRODUCT, WHICH IS NOT PERMITTED WITHOUT A WAIVER. UM, PREVIOUSLY THE BOARD HAS ONLY APPROVED THAT MATERIAL FOR HIGH WATER, HIGH WEATHER AREAS OR AGAINST, UM, AGAINST THE GROUND WHERE INSECTS AND ROT COULD BE AN ISSUE. NOTE THAT THE PROPOSED STYLE IS DIFFERENT, THE NICKEL GAP VERSUS THE LAP SIDING. AND NOTE THAT THE REVEAL IS DIFFERENT. IT'S MUCH WIDER OR TALLER IF YOU WILL. UM, BASICALLY THIS MATERIAL IS, IS TOO MODERN IN ITS CONFIGURATION, NOT MEETING EITHER THE CODE OR THE GUIDELINES. SO WE ARE RECOMMENDING A CONDITION OF APPROVAL THAT, UM, SAYS THAT EITHER WOOD OR ENGINEERED WOOD NEEDS TO BE USED FOR THIS. IT MUST MATCH THE LAP SIDING CONFIGURATION ON THE ORIGINAL BUILDING AND IT MUST MATCH THE REVEAL OF THE ORIGINAL SIDING. MOVING ON TO COLORS, WE SEE CRUSHED ICE FOR THE BODY. THE WINDOWS IN PURE WHITE AND THE WINDOW FRAMES AND DOORS IN IRON ORE ARE REGARDING THE NORTH SIDE REFUSE ENCLOSURE. UM, THIS NEEDS TO MATCH THE BUILDING SIDING PER THE CODE. AND OF COURSE WITH THAT WE HAVE OUR OTHER CONDITION ABOUT THE SIDING ITSELF. AND BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ONLY ADJACENT TO A RESIDENTIAL USE WITH WINDOWS, AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PHOTO, UM, AND BECAUSE OF CODE REQUIREMENTS, THIS UM, TRASH AREA NEEDS TO BE EXTENDED TO THE EAST TO FULLY ENCLOSED THE TRASH BINS. IT'S NOT QUITE ENCLOSING ON THE DRAWING. SO WE HAVE A RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL TO ADDRESS THAT ALONG WITH THE APPROPRIATE SIDING. SO MOVING ON TO MORE MATERIALS AND DETAILS. THE REFUSE ENCLOSURE IS PROPOSED AS FOUR FEET TALL, WHICH IS ADEQUATE. IT'S CURRENTLY SHOWN AS THAT NICKEL GAP BORAL SIDING. AND AGAIN, THAT'S SUBJECT TO A CONDITION OF APPROVAL. THE BIKE RACK IS FROM RELIANCE FOUNDRY IN BLACK. THE GABLE VENT IS FROM GREEN HECK TO BE PAINTED PURE WHITE TO MATCH THE TRIM. AND THE TRIM ITSELF IS SHOWN AGAIN AS THE ENGINEERED WOOD ON THE DRAWINGS. BUT WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT THAT IS NOT THE BORAL PRODUCT. SO THAT IS INCLUDED AS PART OF THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. THE ROOF EXHAUST IS SHOWN FROM TWO POTENTIAL VENDORS. BOTH ARE 42 INCHES TALL AND THIS EXHAUST WOULD BE FULLY SCREENED BY THE NEW ENCLOSURE. AND AGAIN, WE'RE CLARIFYING THAT THAT SCREEN MUST MATCH THE SIDING REQUIREMENTS THROUGH A RECOMMENDED CONDITION OF APPROVAL. THE DOOR IS MARVIN TRUE STYLE, WHICH IS AN M D F PRODUCT. IT'S ONE LIGHT OVER TWO PANELS. THE MINOR PROJECT CRITERIA ARE MET, MET WITH CONDITIONS OR NOT APPLICABLE, AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE MINOR PROJECT WITH THE CONDITIONS IN THE STAFF REPORT. AND JUST BRIEFLY, UM, LIGHTING IS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE SIGN PERMIT REQUEST, WHICH WE'RE EXPECTING SOON. ALL SIDING IS TO BE WOOD OR ENGINEERED WOOD AND MATCH THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE APPROVED BY STAFF. ORAL IS NOT PERMITTED AND THIS WOULD APPLY TO THE HVAC SCREEN AS NOTED IN THE REVISED LANGUAGE. AND THAT WAS ADDED JUST FOR MAXIMUM CLARITY. THE TRASH ENCLOSURE IS TO MATCH THE NEW SIDING, UM, AND IS ALSO TO EXTEND FARTHER EAST TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL BINS ARE FULLY ENCLOSED. MINOR INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE CIVIL AND THE LANDSCAPE DRAWINGS ARE TO BE ADDRESSED AT BUILDING PERMIT. THAT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE CURBING OR NO CURBING ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH AT 87 SOUTH HIGH. AND UM, THEN FINALLY AS PART OF THAT SAME CONDITION OF APPROVAL, PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS ARE TO NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT PROPERTIES OR DRAINAGE PATTERNS. [01:45:01] AND WITH THAT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. ANY QUESTIONS? AND AND JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, HILLARY'S QUESTION, THAT HEIGHT IS FROM THE GROUND, THE 17 PLUS MINUS FETUS FROM THE GROUND. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, I KNOW THAT 17 IS RIDICULOUS, BUT I I DO KNOW THAT I JUST COULDN'T HEAR AND I UNDERSTAND THAT MY VOICE IS PROBABLY NOT AS CLEAR AS IT COULD BE TONIGHT. UM, AND IT IS MEASURED FROM THE GROUND. IT IS SLIGHTLY TALLER THAN THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, BUT IT IS LOCATED ON THE 1990S EDITION. SO IT WAS, FELT THAT IT WAS A GOOD TRADE OFF. I HAD A JUST A QUESTION ON THE TRASH ENCLOSURE. ARE YOU, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT MOVING IT FARTHER TO THE, UM, EAST BECAUSE BASICALLY THAT MEANS MORE OF THE TRASH ENCLOSURE WILL BE CLOSER TO THE HOUSE. WHAT THAT CONDITION IS SAYING IS THAT THE ENCLOSURE ITSELF NEEDS TO, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE ON THIS, BUT THE ENCLOSURE ITSELF IS NOT QUITE COVERING ALL OF THE TRASH BINS. IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK ON THE SITE PLAN, IT STOPS AT ABOUT BIN THREE. SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT EDGE ALONG THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE NEEDS TO CONTINUE ON DOWN TO CAPTURE ALL BINS. YES. I, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT TRYING TO CAPTURE ALL BINS. ABOUT HOW FAR OUT DOES THAT STICK OUT FROM THE, I MEAN THAT'S VERY CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE. SO WILL IT BE FARTHER OUT THAN THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT OR IS IT CONTEMPLATED THAT IT'LL BE WITHIN THAT BOUNDARY? 'CAUSE IT'S HARD TO TELL ON THE LITTLE DRAWING HERE. IF THAT'S BEING THE ENCLOSURE RUNS RIGHT ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE. IT'S SHOWN ALMOST, UM, CONCURRENT WITH THE PROPERTY LINE. THE PROPERTY LINE. AND PERHAPS THE APPLICANT CAN ANSWER THAT DETAIL. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. AND JUST, I MEAN, PARKING'S COMPLIANT, RIGHT? IT'S NOT MENTIONED HERE. SO I MEAN THE SPACES FOR THE, FOR THE USAGE ARE COMPLIANT. 'CAUSE NORMALLY WE HAVE PARKING ISSUES, BUT THIS, THE NUMBER OF SPACES HERE IS ENOUGH FOR THE SPACE OR FOR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. THE NUMBER OF SPACES EXACTLY. MATCHES WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR THE RESTAURANT. YEP. MM-HMM. LIKE THE FIRST ONE EVER. YEAH. WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME FORWARD? UH, KEVIN PARIC, GUNMAN ARCHITECTURE INTERIORS WE'RE AT 3 3 3 STEWART AVENUE IN COLUMBUS, OHIO. UM, PRIMARILY JUST WANTED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ON THE TRASH ENCLOSURE COMMENT. UM, THE, UH, ENCLOSURE WOULD BE WITHIN THE PROPERTY LINE ENOUGH SO THAT ALL STRUCTURES INSTALLED, UM, ON THE SUBJECT PARCEL. AND WE IMAGINE IT WOULD EXTEND SLIGHTLY PAST THE CORNER OF THE ADJACENT HOUSE TO PROVIDE THE COVERAGE REQUESTED. BUT, UM, OTHER THAN ANSWERING QUESTIONS, NOTHING FURTHER TO ADD AT THIS TIME. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I OKAY. STAY, STAY CLOSE IN CASE WE CASE COME, COME UP. UM, IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS? ALRIGHT. ANY ELECTRONIC REQUEST? NO COMMENTS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. DELIBERATION. HOW DO Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT IT? GOOD. OKAY. YEAH, I'VE, YEAH, I'M POSITIVE ON THE OKAY. ON THE APPLICANT. LOOKS GOOD TO ME. CONTINUE. ALRIGHT. UM, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THE FOUR CONDITIONS? I MEAN THERE'S, THERE'S SOME THINGS ABOUT THE MATERIAL CHANGE AND YOU OKAY. USING A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE OKAY. THE BORAL PRODUCT. WELL, I I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. WHY, WHY DID YOU WANT TO USE THAT SIDING ON THAT ONE PARTICULAR SIDE VERSUS THE LAP SIDING OVER THERE? UM, LOT OF THE ENGINEERED WOOD PRODUCTS, MANY OF THE ENGINEERED WOOD PRODUCTS WE FIND CURRENTLY JUST ARE NOT ABLE TO BE ACHIEVED IN A SMOOTH TEXTURE. UM, LP SMART SIDE, FOR EXAMPLE, [01:50:01] WE KNOW ONLY A WOOD GRAIN IS REALLY AVAILABLE. YEAH. UM, SO THERE'S MAYBE A BIT MORE FOCUS ON THE TEXTURE OF THE SIDING THAN MAYBE SOME OF THE PHYSICAL REVEALS. UM, AT THE TIME OF SUBMISSION, UM, WE THINK WE'VE IDENTIFIED SOME OTHER POSSIBLE PRODUCTS THAT CAN BE SUITABLE. UM, AND WE'LL JUST WORK WITH STAFF TO GET AS CLOSE AS WE CAN TO, UH, YOU KNOW, MATCHING THE EXISTING. OKAY. ALRIGHT, THANKS. OKAY. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINOR PROJECT WITH THE FOUR CONDITIONS? YES. I WILL MOVE. SO MOVE. I'LL SECOND. MR. KOTTER? YES. MS. COOPER? YES. MR. ALEXANDER? YES. MS. TAMER? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. YOU'VE BEEN APPROVED. THANKS. THANK YOU. THANKS. OKAY. ALRIGHT, SARAH. ALL RIGHT. [PRESENTATION] THIS IS, THIS IS THE FUN BIT. WE WANTED TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON ART G I SS URBAN EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN ONGOING FOR QUITE SOME TIME AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT, UM, SOME OF US HAVE BEEN UP TO. I CANNOT CLAIM ANY, ANY, UH, RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY OF THIS WONDERFUL WORK, BUT, UM, A LOT HAS GONE INTO THIS. SO, UM, BEFORE WE GET INTO THE DISCUSSION, I DO WANNA INTRODUCE SOME MORE GUESTS THAT WE HAVE TONIGHT. WE HAVE BRANDON BROWN OWN AND RICK FRANCE AND LANGDON SANDERS. AND I AM SO SORRY, I FORGOT YOUR NAME. KARA SHEETS. KARA. KARA SHEETS. YES. SO THANK YOU TO ALL OF THEM. THEY ARE FROM IT AND G I S AND THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH ZACH HOUNSHELL AND CHRIS WILL IN OUR OFFICE TO, UM, PUT TOGETHER THIS PRESENTATION AND THIS RESPONSE FOR YOU. SO A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND AT, UM, THE BOARD AND COMMISSION WORKSHOP BACK IN AUGUST OF 22, A REQUEST CAME FOR ASSISTANCE IN HELPING TO IMAGINE THE MASSING IN THE FORM OF VARIOUS BUILDINGS AND PROJECTS WITHIN THE DISTRICT. AND IT'S, IT WAS RECOGNIZED THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST OFTEN REALLY HARD TO PICTURE HOW BIG THESE BUILDINGS ARE GONNA BE OR HOW THEY'RE GONNA FIT APPROPRIATELY OR NOT. AND SO WE, UM, WERE REQUESTED BY THE BOARD TO INVESTIGATE DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR YOU TO CONSIDER. AND AT THE SAME TIME, BOTH, UM, IT AND G I S WERE WORKING ON SIMILAR STUDIES FOR THE ENTIRE CITY. AND THIS CONTINUES TO BE A WORK IN PROGRESS. WE'VE NOW GOT A THREE D BASE MAP CREATED. IT'S BEEN A, A BIT OF A LEARNING CURVE, BUT, UM, WE HAVE SOME VERY USEFUL IMAGERY TO SHOW YOU AND WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO REPORT BACK TO YOU ON WHAT WE FOUND. UM, AS I MENTIONED SO FAR, THERE'S A CITYWIDE BASEMENT PREPARED, AND I'M GONNA ACTUALLY SHOW THAT TO YOU WHAT THE STANDARD BASE MAP LOOKS LIKE. AND THEN SINCE WE REALIZED THAT THAT WASN'T GOING TO BE AS USEFUL TO THIS BOARD IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WE WORKED WITH A CONTRACTOR FOR APPROPRIATE DETAIL THAT INCLUDES FENESTRATION AND VEGETATION, MORE TOPOGRAPHY, MORE OF THE KIND OF DETAILS THAT THIS BOARD RELIES ON. SO WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE NEXT STEPS WITH YOU, UM, FOR USE, EITHER INTERNALLY, EXTERNALLY, OTHER IDEAS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE. UM, I KNOW THESE FOLKS ARE EAGER TO TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE VIRTUAL REALITY AND OTHER NEAT TOOLS, BUT I'LL LET THEM DO THAT PART SO EVERYONE IS HERE TO HELP ANSWER THE TECHNICAL QUESTIONS. AND, UM, WITH THAT, I'M GONNA LAUNCH INTO THE DEMO AND I THINK, RICK, YOU'RE GONNA HELP WITH THAT. SUPER. UH, OH, LET'S SEE. LOOK, IT IS LAUNCHING, RIGHT? BETTER. IT BETTER. OKAY. [01:55:07] SO HERE WE'RE GONNA START WITH WHAT THE STANDARD BASE MAP ALL OVER THE CITY LOOKS LIKE. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE HOUSES ARE JUST KIND OF BOX MASSES, WHICH IS REALLY GREAT INFORMATION, BUT AGAIN, IS NOT AS DETAILED AND AS USEFUL FOR THE WORK THAT THIS BOARD DOES. SO THESE FOLKS WORKED, AGAIN, WITH OUR, OUR CONTRACTOR TO COME UP WITH ACTUAL BUILDING FENESTRATION AND FORMS AND DETAILS AND TEXTURES. THIS IS, UM, NORTH RIVER VIEW AT, UM, ATCH AND OSCARS OBVIOUSLY. AND WE CAN ZOOM OVER HERE TO WEST BRIDGE STREET AND YOU CAN SEE THE VEGETATION. THAT WAS A ITEM OF DISCUSSION TO SORT OF HELP GET THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT. WE HAVE ITEMS SUCH AS LIGHT POSTS. UM, IN SOME OF THESE OTHER VIEWS, YOU CAN SEE TOPOGRAPHY A LITTLE BIT BETTER. BUT YOU'LL NOTE IN THE BACKGROUND HERE IS, UM, BRIDGE STREET, THIS PARTICULAR VIEW, IT TAKES A MOMENT TO LOAD. THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION IN HERE, BUT THIS IS SOUTH RIVERVIEW WHERE WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT, UM, THE ONE 12 PROJECT. AND YOU CAN SCOOT YOURSELF AROUND AND START TO SEE THE BACKSIDE OF THESE BUILDINGS FROM, UM, THE RIVER AND START TO, YOU KNOW, FEEL WHAT IT MIGHT BE LIKE ON THE STREET. AM I MISSING ANYTHING? RIGHT? NO, YOU'RE NAILING IT. OKAY, GOOD. , THIS IS A VIEW FROM SOUTH HIGH STREET, A LITTLE BIT MORE AERIAL IN NATURE. YOU CAN FLY OVER, YOU CAN STAND WITHIN, YOU CAN PEER AROUND, UM, IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. THERE'S A LOT OF UTILITY TO THIS, BUT AGAIN, NOTICE WE HAVE DORMERS AND PORCHES AND CHIMNEYS AND BUMP OUTS AND ALL KINDS OF DETAIL IN HERE. ZOOMING OVER TO THE CHURCH ON BRIDGE STREET, AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS IN HERE. AND THEN FINALLY, UM, LOOKING EAST ON BRIDGE STREET, YOU CAN SEE THAT. AND JUST BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS REALLY FUN, UM, WHERE DO I MAKE IT SNOW? YOU CAN ALSO DO FUN THINGS LIKE MAKE IT SNOW OR RAIN OR, YOU KNOW, REALLY GIVE A, A QUITE REALISTIC SENSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON. AND UM, AGAIN, RICK IS HERE TO HELP ANSWER ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS. HE'S EAGER, READY TO GO. UM, AND THEN WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR YOU, UM, THAT WE WANTED TO GO OVER. UM, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK WITH THIS PRODUCT AND THAT WE'RE MEETING YOUR EXPECTATIONS AND LOOKING FOR ANY FURTHER MODIFICATIONS OR ADJUSTMENTS THAT MIGHT BE NECESSARY WITH THE IMAGERY. WE ALSO WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE BOARD'S EXPECTATIONS FOR USE. UM, WE CAN GRAB STATIC SCREEN IMAGES TO THEN PUT IN POWERPOINTS OR WE CAN DO THE LIVE DEMO THAT'S MORE LIKE FLYING THROUGH. THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE COMPLICATED OF COURSE. AND THEN WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT SOME ANTICIPATED GUIDELINES FOR USE. WE HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT. THIS IS A PRETTY TIME INTENSIVE, UM, AND SOFTWARE DEPENDENT TOOL. UM, BUT NEVERTHELESS, IT, IT CAN BE VERY, VERY POWERFUL, ESPECIALLY PERHAPS FOR LARGER APPLICATIONS. AND THEN ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE. AND WITH THAT, [02:00:01] I'LL, I'LL WELCOME ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS. I'LL, I'LL START WITH SOME QUESTIONS. UM, CAN YOU, SOMETIMES IN AN ACADEMIC SETTING, WHEN PEOPLE ARE STUDYING BUILDING MASS IN THIS RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER BUILDINGS, THEY WANT TO TURN EVERYTHING WHITE. SO YOU'RE STUDYING PURE FORM, YOU'RE NOT, BECAUSE THE COLORS OF DIFFERENT ELEMENTS CAN BE DISTRACTING, CAN YOU JUST CLICK SOMETHING ON AND TURN THE TREES WHITE, UM, AND MAKE EVERYTHING WHITE? UH, I BELIEVE YES, WE CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT. OKAY. THEN THE SECOND QUESTION IS IN AREAS WHERE THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THE WAY YOU PERCEIVE SPACE, UM, WITH DECIDUOUS TREES CHANGES DRAMATICALLY AS THEY LOSE THEIR LEAVES. ARE YOU ABLE TO SHOW LIKE THE, THE BUILDINGS ON RIVERVIEW THAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH, YOU KNOW, THAT AREA IS SO DIFFERENT WHEN THE TREE CANOPY'S DOWN AND THERE'S MORE OF A VISTA. SO DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO, I GUESS YOU COULD TAKE THE TREES OFF OR JUST SHOW THEM AS A SERIES OF, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULDN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO BE ARTICULATED BRANCH STRUCTURE, BUT JUST SHOW TRUNKS. UM, YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD COMMENT. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF BEFORE. UM, WE MAY BE ABLE TO ADD, FOR INSTANCE, TWO LAYERS, MAYBE SAY TREASON SUMMER AND TREASON WINTER. YEAH. AND THEN YOU COULD KIND OF FLIP BETWEEN THEM. AND THEN, THEN ANOTHER THOUGHT I HAD IS HOW DOES THIS WORK? DOES AN APPLICANT GIVE YOU A SKETCHUP MODEL AND YOU DROP IN THE SKETCHUP MODEL AND ADJUST THE SIZE OF THAT MODEL? HOW, HOW WOULD THIS WORK? IT'S PART OF WHAT WE NEED TO, YEAH, THAT, THAT'S REALLY THE MEAT OF THE QUESTION. ESSENTIALLY WE'VE GOTTEN SO FAR AS TO PROVIDE THE CONTEXT NOW, UM, THAT ALL OF THESE PROPOSALS WILL THEN SNAP INTO. BUT YOU KNOW, HOW THAT MECHANIZATION WORKS IS REALLY TO BE DETERMINED. OKAY. YEAH. SO IF I'M, IF I CAN FOLLOW UP, SO TO ADD IN WHAT GARY WAS SAYING, IF FOR INSTANCE, WE HAD A, UM, PICTURE OR A SCREENSHOT OR THE WHOLE LIVE DEMO OF THE SOUTH HIGH STREET, OR LET'S USE RIVERVIEW, WE HAD THE RIVERVIEW AND, BUT THEN WE WANTED TO ENVISION WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN ONE 12 WAS ADDED. YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE CAPABILITY YET TO ADD DIMENSIONAL STRUCTURE OF WHAT WAS PROPOSED TONIGHT AT ONE 12 ONTO RIVERVIEW SO THAT WE CAN SEE HOW IT AFFECTS THE STREET SCAPE. DO YOU MIND IF I NO, PLEASE TAKE A STAB AND, AND PLEASE, YOU KNOW, INTERJECT AS MUCH AS YOU, YOU THINK YOU SHOULD. UM, I THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS THE AMOUNT OF EFFORT THAT SHOULD BE DETERMINED FOR EVERY PROPOSAL, IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO JUST PLOP DOWN A WHITE BOX. BUT IS THAT GOING TO PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF DETAIL THAT YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR? UM, SO THERE'S THIS KIND OF BALANCE FOR THAT AND, AND WHAT PROJECTS WOULD YOU WANT A MODEL FOR? YEAH, I ACTUALLY THINK PLOPPING IN A WHITE BOX AND IF YOU JUST HAD THE FENESTRATION ON IT, LIKE THE EXAMPLES TONIGHT WOULD BE REALLY VALUABLE. SO I PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK UNLESS YOU WANT TO CREATE WALKTHROUGH PROGRAMS THAT WE NEED THE ABILITY TO WALK THROUGH OR SOME OF THE MORE SOPHISTICATED PROGRAMS YOU FLY THROUGH THE SITE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T NEED THAT. I THINK THE CHALLENGE HAS BEEN PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW HOW BIG THESE PROJECTS ARE WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT TWO D DRAWINGS. SO JUST THE WHITE BOX WITH THE FENESTRATION GIVES US, YOU KNOW, THE OPENINGS GIVES US A SENSE OF THE SCALE. SO I THINK HAVING THE OPENINGS LIKE YOU'VE CREATED IS REALLY VALUABLE. BUT JUST THEY COULD BE JUST SHOTS FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, DIFFERENT LOCATIONS WHERE WE WOULD SEE THINGS LIKE AT THE STREET LEVEL, AT THE NORMAL EYE LEVEL. THOSE WOULD BE, I THINK, REALLY VALUABLE. HOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU? RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GO GO FOR WAS LIKE, AS AN EXAMPLE, PRACTICAL EXAMPLE OF TONIGHT'S PROJECT, THE 1 12, 1 OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD WAS THE MASSING. AND HOW DID THAT APPEAR? WELL, JUST HAVING IT SHOW UP AS A WHITE BOX ON THAT STREET WITH THE OTHER STRUCTURES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE WOULD'VE BEEN VERY VALUABLE. AND IN OTHER CASES I CAN THINK OF, IT MAY HAVE BEEN HELPFUL TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT TO THE APPLICANT SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR CONCERN IS, WHY WE ARE NOT MAYBE SUPPORTIVE OF THE MASSING THEY ARE PROPOSING. [02:05:01] SO THAT WAS JUST ONE OF THE IDEAS THAT I HAD ON HOW IT COULD BE USEFUL. YEAH. AND WE'RE CONCERNED WITH THE APPEARANCE, LIKE YOU SAID, FROM THE STREET. I I, I'VE NEVER BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT HOW IT LOOKS FROM AN AIRPLANE AND I REALLY DON'T THINK , THAT'S OUR CONCERN AS FAR, FAR AS IT LOOKS FROM WHERE, I'M SORRY, YOU'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT HOW IT LOOKS FROM AN AIRPLANE. AIRPLANE. THE FLYOVER AIRPLANES DIDN'T EXIST IN THE 18 HUNDREDS, SO I DON'T THINK THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE FROM THE AIR. WELL, BALLOONS DID, BUT ALL RIGHT. UM, THE OTHER QUESTION THAT THEY HAVE HERE IS WHAT ARE THE, THE EXPECTATIONS FOR USE AND I DEFINITELY NEW BUILDS, BUT ALSO EXPANSIONS. MM-HMM. , ALL THOSE APPLICATIONS WE'VE HAD WHERE THEY WANNA GO OUT BACK AND TRIPLE THEIR SIZE. YES, THAT'S, IT WOULD BE HUGELY HELPFUL. THE ON SOUTH HIGH, THOSE ONES AS WELL. I DON'T THINK I NEED IT FOR THE CHIMNEY THAT'S GOING UP ON THE NEW RESTAURANT. UM, BUT I, FOR ANY OF THE NEW BUILDS WHERE THEY'RE ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE PROPERTY, ACTUALLY THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT BECAUSE THE HARDEST THING FOR US TO BUILDS DETERMINE IS WHAT DOES SUBORDINATE MEAN? RIGHT? RIGHT. AND SO, AND AMASSING IS PROBABLY, IT'S NOT FOOTPRINT AND THAT'S WHERE SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET FOOLED. SUBORDINATE DOESN'T MEAN PLAN SIZE, IT'S REALLY THE MASS RELATIVE TO THE MASS OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. SO THOSE ADDITIONS I AGREE WITH, YOU KNOW, HILLARY'S COMMENT, I THINK SEEING THE ADDITIONS WOULD BE JUST AS VALUABLE AS SEEING AGREED. THE OSCARS DEVELOPMENT. YES. OSCARS. BUT ALSO THE ONE THAT COMES TO MIND IS SOUTH, SOUTH HIGH STREET. HIGH STREET WHERE THE SHARED DRIVEWAY WAS EXACTLY. BECAUSE THEY HAD THAT BUMP OUT PORTION THAT WE COULDN'T, WE COULD SEE THAT IT WAS GONNA BE POSSIBLY BE SEEN, BUT IF WE COULD WALK AROUND THE HOUSE VIRTUALLY WITH THE BUMP OUT, WE COULD TELL WHETHER IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE OR NOT. AND THAT, I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE SUMMER WINTER CHANGE OF TREES TOO. 'CAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON THAT PARTICULAR HOUSE AS WELL. WE WERE ALL LOOKING AT IT WITH ITS SUMMER FOLIAGE WHEN WE WENT OUT TO THE HOUSE ITSELF. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE WINTER. EVEN THE PROPERTY AT 36, 38 WOULD'VE BENEFITED FROM THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE BUILDING THAT, UH, LIKE WHERE ATCH IS, WHERE THEY BUILT A WHOLE SEPARATE BUILDING ONTO THE BACK, THEY'RE BUILDING A WHOLE NEW, YOU KNOW, DOUBLE STRUCTURE IN THE BACK. AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO SEE HOW THAT FITS. AND CERTAINLY GARY'S EXAMPLE OF OSCAR'S, THAT TREMENDOUS BOX THAT JUST WENT ONTO THE STREET. SO THAT WAS OUR IMMEDIATE THOUGHT TOO, IS CERTAINLY FOR THE LARGER PROJECTS THAT WARRANT THE CONCEPT PRELIMINARY AND FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLANS, THAT SEEMS LIKE A NO-BRAINER. BUT I'M LIKING THIS IDEA AND RICK IS TELLING ME THAT IF YOU ALL ARE OKAY WITH, UM, JUST A WHITE BOX SORT OF ADDED ONTO THE STREETSCAPE OR ONTO AN EXISTING BUILDING, THAT WE CAN DO THAT PRETTY SIMPLY. AND RICK, I MEAN, YOU COULD MAKE IT SO THAT, I MEAN, WE KNOW THE PLAN SO THE GABLES FACE THE RIGHT WAY. SO YOU COULD PUT IT AS A GENERALLY HOW IT WOULD LOOK, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT, BUT, BUT YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO SAY HERE IT'S A FRONT GABLE, IT'S A SIDE GABLE, IT HAS SOME DORM OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SO THAT'S LIKE THE EASY ENOUGH. YEAH. AND WINDOWS. AND WINDOWS, YEAH. AND DOORS. YEAH. FENESTRATION, THE WINDOWS ACTUALLY GET A LITTLE TRICKY. IT'S, IT'S EASIER TO ADD MASS, UM, OR TO TAKE AWAY MASS THAN IT IS TO ADD THOSE THINGS. YEAH. BUT, BUT THE, THE ANGLES OF THE ROOF TOP AND THE HEIGHTS RELATIVE, THEY WOULD BE, COULD BE BASED ON WHAT WAS GIVEN IN OUR PLANS THAT WE WERE GIVEN SO THAT WE COULD KIND OF GET AN ACTUAL, IF YOU BUILD IT THIS WAY, THIS IS HOW IT'S GOING TO, THE OUTLINE WILL LOOK LIKE THIS. THE BUILDING OUTLINE WILL LOOK LIKE THIS. YES. YES. BUILDING OUTLINES, YOU KNOW, IF IT HAS A CONSISTENT ROOF LINE THROUGHOUT THE STRUCTURE, VERY EASY TO DO. YOU CAN EVEN, UH, IF IT'S, IF IT'S A REDEVELOPMENT SITE, YOU COULD MASK OUT THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AND, AND PUT THIS IN PLACE, UH, WHERE YOU MIGHT SPEND MORE TIME AND, AND GET MORE INVOLVED IS IF YOU WANTED TO SEE THE GABLES AND, AND THOSE THINGS. YES. STILL TECHNICALLY CAPABLE, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE, THE BALANCE MIGHT COME. RICK, JUST REMIND ME IF I'M TO TO, TO ADD A HOUSE IN THERE, IS THIS AN HOUR A DAY? I, I HAVE REALLY HAVE NO EVEN NO CONCEPTION ABOUT HOW, HOW LONG IT TAKES TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. UM, I, I THINK THERE'S A, A BIT OF A LEARNING CURVE TO IT. UM, I, I THINK IT IS MEASURED IN HOURS. THIS ISN'T A DAY'S THING BASED ON YOUR WORKFLOW AND OUR FILING DEADLINES. AND THEN WHEN THE MEETINGS OCCUR, DO [02:10:01] WE NEED TO, TO HAVE SOMETHING DONE WITHIN THE CURRENT TIMEFRAME THAT WE GIVE APPLICANTS? CAN THAT BE ACCOMMODATED? CAN THEY DO THAT IN THAT TIMEFRAME OR WOULD WE BE LENGTHENING OUR PERIOD FROM SUBMISSION TO MEETING TO WAIT FOR THAT? WE HAVE AMPLE TIME TO OKAY, UM, ACCOMMODATE THIS. AND WHAT I'M THINKING IS WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN RIGHT NOW WHERE WE COULD USE THIS AS KIND OF LIKE A BETA TEST TO, YOU KNOW, SEE HOW IT WORKS AND WHAT THE TIMEFRAME IS AND WHAT THE END RESULT IS. BUT THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, ADDITION OR SOMETHING THAT COMES IN THAT WOULD BE USEFUL. I'M THINKING WE OUGHT TO GIVE THIS A TRY AND BRING SOME SCREENSHOTS BACK INTO THE PRESENTATION AND HAVE, HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, COMMENT ON WHAT YOU THINK. IS IT USEFUL? IS IT, ARE WE MORE ON THE RIGHT TRACK OR MAYBE EVEN DO A COUPLE THAT WE'VE FINISHED? BECAUSE THAT WAY WE'RE NOT SPRINGING SOMETHING NEW ON THEM UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE SEE IT. BUT IF WE SAW LIKE ONE 12 SOUTH RIVER VIEW AND THE ADDITION ON THE HOUSE ON SOUTH HIGH, THOSE TWO EXAMPLES WOULD MAYBE GIVE US AN, AN IDEA OF HOW EITHER A NEW BUILD OR A, UM, ADD-ON A SIGNIFICANT ADD-ON WOULD WHAT WHAT IT WILL REFLECT TO US. BECAUSE INSTEAD OF SAYING, OKAY, YOU'RE NEXT, AND OH, BY THE WAY, WE HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, MODEL THAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT AS WELL. AND SO THAT WAY WE HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW IT ACTUALLY WORKS WITH SOMETHING THAT WE'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH. WE COULD DO THAT. UM, LET'S, I THINK WE'D FIGURE OUT THE TIMING OF IT BEFORE WE PROMISE, BUT, UM, YEAH, I THINK, I THINK WE COULD HAVE SOMETHING POSSIBLY FOR JULY, MAYBE MORE LIKELY AUGUST. THIS IS JULY. OH, AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER. MY GOODNESS. TIME HAS FLOWN. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. SO I'M HOPING NEXT MONTH WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS DOCUMENT. THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANNA LOAD TOO MUCH THE, I'M LOOKING AT THE LIST HERE AND WE'VE THE, UM, I THINK WE'VE COVERED FIRST TWO PRETTY WELL. I THINK ONE GUIDELINE THAT I CAN THINK OF IS WE DON'T LET THE A, YOU AND YOU IMPORT THE INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT'S DRAWINGS BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A BETTER LIKELIHOOD OF SOME NEUTRALITY IF YOU AND YOUR STAFF MAKE THE MODEL FROM THE APPLICANT'S DOCUMENTS THAN IF WE LET THE APPLICANTS. BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE'LL SEE, IF WE SEE SCREENSHOTS WE HAVEN'T SO MUCH RECENTLY, BUT IN OTHER PROJECTS, AND, AND YOU KNOW, TO AN EXTENT WE DO THIS TOO, UM, WE SEE SCREENSHOTS FROM SKETCHUP. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GONNA SHOW YOU THEIR BEST LOOK AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA SHOW YOU THE PLACE WHERE IT'S A PROBLEM. SO IF YOU MAKE THE MODEL, THERE'S PROBABLY, I, I I THINK IT'S SAFER. OKAY. IT WOULD JUST BE MAYBE A PART OF THE PLANNING REPORT THEN COULD BE. RIGHT. JUST LIKE, UH OH, AND WE TOOK THIS MM-HMM. , THAT'S RIGHT. STRUCTURE INSERTED INTO OUR, UM, ARGIS. AND THIS IS THE PICTURE THAT WE'VE GENERATED TO SHOW HOW IT WOULD LOOK AS PROPOSED. IT'S ANOTHER PART OF THE ANALYSIS. MAYBE THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THE IT PEOPLE THOUGH, YOU KNOW, I SAID THAT, BUT THEN DO YOU HAVE OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT YOU MAKE OPEN SOURCE FOR RESIDENTS? MY QUESTION. OKAY. SO THERE'S, THERE'S A COUPLE ASPECTS TO IT. SO THE, THE THREE D BASE MAP THAT THIS UTILIZES, UM, IS JUST ONE COMPONENT OF IT AND WE HOPE TO USE THAT IN MANY OTHER APPLICATIONS. UM, YOUR, YOUR QUESTION OF IS THIS GOING TO BE USED IN OTHER WAYS? WE CERTAINLY HOPE SO. NO, BUT I MEANT IS IT GOING TO BE AVAILABLE AS AN OPEN SOURCE DOCUMENT OR, OR SOFTWARE PROGRAM FOR RESIDENTS TO USE? I'M SORRY, YES. I FORGOT ABOUT THAT PART. OKAY. YES. SO ALL OF THE MODELS THAT [02:15:01] YOU'RE SEEING, WE WANT TO MAKE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC. UM, AND POTENTIALLY HOWEVER WE GET A MODEL, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THAT'S A MODEL OF SOMEONE'S HOUSE OR A MODEL OF A PROPOSED BUILDING, WE COULD INCORPORATE IN. HOPEFULLY THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. YEAH. SO, SO THE IDEA IS, AND SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON IS A COMPANION WEBSITE THAT WILL ALLOW ANYONE TO DOWNLOAD MODELS OF, OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WE HAVE, UM, TO LOOK AT POINT NUMBER TWO, WHETHER LIVE DEMOS OR STATIC SCREENSHOTS WOULD BE HELPFUL AND ONE OR THE OTHER. IN YOUR EXAMPLES. MAYBE YOU COULD DO EXAMPLES OF BOTH AND THEN WE CAN SEE WHETHER HAVING THE, THE LIVE DEMO, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S FEASIBLE, BUT I'M TOLD IT'S POSSIBLE. YEAH. THAT WAY WE CAN, YEAH. YOU KNOW, EITHER DROP IN SLIDE OR END THE WALKTHROUGH AND THEN WE CAN TELL YOU IF ONE OR THE OTHER WAS BETTER OR WORSE OR BOTH. OKAY. ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS? NO, I, IT LOOKS GOOD. I MEAN, UH, A IT'S CALLED THAT A BETA TEST. THAT'S IT LOOKS IT LOOKS GOOD. . YEAH. I REALLY, I'M IMPRESSED. YEAH, I THINK IT'LL BE REALLY HELPFUL. HAVE WE GIVEN YOU ENOUGH, ENOUGH FEEDBACK? I THINK SO. OKAY. ALRIGHT. GOOD. THANK YOU. EXCUSE ME. IT IS NICE TO SEE THE CITY IMPLEMENTS SOMETHING THAT WE SUGGESTED. SO WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT, WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT, NO, WELL NO, IT'S BIG ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, BIG ORGANIZATION, THINGS GET LOST, SO THINGS GET LOST. SO ANY BIG ORGANIZATION. OKAY. ALTHOUGH I MUST SAY OUR STAFF SEEMS PRETTY RESPONSIVE TO, YEAH. TO OUR BOARD. . ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION ON [COMMUNICATIONS] THE JOINT WORK SESSION, WHICH IS SCHEDULED ON AUGUST 30. DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THAT'S AT? WE DON'T HAVE A TIME NOR A LOCATION YET, SO MORE INFORMATION WILL BE COMING IN SEPTEMBER. WE ARE WANTING TO DO A TOUR OF THE DISTRICT AND TAKE A LOOK AT PROJECTS AND UM, YOU KNOW, SEE WHAT'S BEEN DONE AND WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE IN REAL LIFE. UM, IF YOU COULD BE THINKING ABOUT PROJECTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, SOME ONES THAT COME TO MY MIND ARE 94 FRANKLIN STREET, 180 1 SOUTH HIGH, UM, 38 WEST BRIDGE, FOX IN THE SNOW. YEP. AND, UM, POSSIBLY 63 SOUTH HIGH. THAT'S THE MURAL AND THE TREVOR FUREY SIGN. YEAH. BUT THERE MIGHT BE OTHERS. UM, MORE INFORMATION WILL BE COMING ON WHETHER WE DO THAT ON A DIFFERENT DAY THAN OUR HEARING OR HOW THAT ALL COMES TOGETHER. 'CAUSE AGAIN, I AM HOPING, HOPING, HOPING TO FOLD IN THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS DOCUMENT AS WELL. I HAD IT ON MY CALENDAR AS THE 14TH OF SEPTEMBER. IS THAT WRONG FOR THE TOUR? FOR THE TOUR? I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT DATE, BUT THAT MIGHT BE CORRECT. I KNOW WE HAD IT ON A LIST OF DATES. IT WAS A WEEK BEFORE. I THOUGHT IT WAS A WEEK BEFORE OUR NORMALLY SCHEDULED MEETING. 'CAUSE I, I DO THINK IT'S ON OUR CALENDAR. I THINK WELL, OKAY. 14TH OF SEPTEMBER. THE 14TH OF SEPTEMBER IS A THURSDAY, WHICH IS ODD. OKAY. BUT A R B THAT MONTH IN SEPTEMBER IS THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY AND IT'S THE 27TH. WELL THEN I HAVE THE DATE WRONG, SO I DON'T HAVE IT ON. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? ONLY FOR ME, SIR. I'M NOT, I WON'T BE AT THE JOINT MEETING. I'LL BE ON VACATION. OKAY. I'M JUST ALRIGHT, THANKS SEAN. I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO REPORT. OKAY. I THINK WE'RE ADJOURNED. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU ALL. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.