[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:02]
IT'S THURSDAY, JUNE 29TH, 2023.
THIS IS THE CITY OF DUBLIN BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
YOU CAN JOIN THE MEETING IN PERSON AT 55 55 PERIMETER DRIVE AND ALSO ACCESS THE MEETING VIA THE LIVESTREAM ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE.
WE WELCOME PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, INCLUDING PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THE CASES.
THE MEETING PROCEDURE FOR THE CASE THIS EVENING WILL BEGIN WITH THE STAFF PRESENTATION FOLLOWED BY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO MAKE A PRESENTATION.
THE BOARD WILL ASK CLARIFYING QUESTIONS OF STAFF FIRST AND THEN OF THE APPLICANT.
THE BOARD WILL HEAR PUBLIC COMMENTS FROM THE PODIUM.
EACH SPEAKER MUST PROVIDE THEIR NAME, ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD FOLLOWING PUBLIC COMMENT, INCLUDING THOSE SUBMITTED ONLINE.
THE BOARD WILL DELIBERATE ON THE CASE PRIOR TO RENDERING A DECISION.
[ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS and APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
MOVE NEXT TO THE ACCEPTANCE OF DOCUMENTS AND APPROVAL OF MINUTES.DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT DOCUMENTS INTO THE RECORD AND APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FROM MAY 25TH, 2023.
WITH REGARD TO THE SWEARING OF WITNESSES AND STAFF, IF ANYONE INTENDING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON THE LOAN CASE THIS EVENING, PLEASE STAND, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANSWER IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THIS BOARD? YES.
[ Case #23-043]
OKAY, FOR OUR LOAN CASE THIS EVENING, IT IS CASE NUMBER 23 DASH 0 4 3, THE MILLER RESIDENCE AT 31 65 LILLY MAR COURT.THIS IS WITH REGARD TO A NON-USE AREA VARIANCE.
SPECIFICALLY, THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR VARIANCE TO ZONING CODE SECTION 1 53 0.210 B FOUR LITTLE A TO ALLOW A DRIVEWAY TO EXCEED THE MAXIMUM WIDTH FOR FRONT LOADED GARAGES AND A VARIANCE TO ZONING CODE SECTION 1 53 0.021 C3 TO PERMIT A CONCRETE PAD TO ENCROACH INTO THE, THE REQUIRED SIDE YARD SETBACK ON A 0.9 ACRE SITE ZONED LIMITED SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
THE SITE IS LOCATED EAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF LILLY MAR COURT WITH B BRA SMAR PLACE.
WITH REGARD TO STAFF PRESENTATION THIS EVENING, WE'LL HAVE ELIZABETH FIELDS PRESENTING ELIZABETH.
UM, AS THE CHAIR MENTIONED, UH, THE SUBJECT SITE IS LOCATED, UM, ON LILLY MAR DRIVE.
UM, IT HAS FRONTAGE BOTH ON LILLY MAR COURT,
UM, THE PROPERTY IS RECTANGULAR IN SIZE AND VERY SIMILAR IN SIZE IN NATURE TO OTHER PROPERTIES ON, UH, LILLY MAR COURT, BOTH ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDE, UM, OF THAT ROAD.
UM, EXCEPT FOR THE, THE, BASICALLY THE ONES ON THE END OF THE CUL-DE-SAC OBVIOUSLY ARE, ARE DIFFERENT IN SHAPE.
UM, AS STATED, THE PROPERTY IS IS ABOUT 0.94 ACRES IN SIZE, UH, ZONED OUR TWO LIMITED SUB, UH, LI LIMITED SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL.
UM, AT THE HOUSE CURRENTLY HAS ABOUT 125 FEET FRONTAGE ON LILY MARK COURT, UM, AND IS SET BACK APPROXIMATELY 70 FEET FROM THE ROAD.
UM, IT ALSO HAS 20, ABOUT 21 FEET FROM THE EAST PROPERTY LINE.
UM, 190 FEET FROM THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE.
THAT'S, UM, THE PROPERTY LINE ADJACENT TO MARTIN ROAD, AND THEN 12.6 FEET ON THE WEST PROPERTY LINE.
UH, THE SITE HAS SIGNIFICANT NATURAL FEATURES AND, AND, UH, FOLIAGE AT THE SOUTH OF THE SITE, WHICH PROVIDES, UH, GOOD BUFFERING FROM THE HOUSE TO MARTIN ROAD AND FROM THE ROAD TO THE RESIDENTIAL AREA AS WELL.
THESE ARE IMAGES OF THE HOUSE, UH, AS IT STANDS TODAY.
UM, THE PICTURE ON THE RIGHT IS AGAIN TAKEN FROM THE ROAD, SO YOU CAN KIND OF GET A SENSE OF HOW BACK, HOW FAR BACK IT IS,
[00:05:01]
UM, FROM THE STREET.UH, THIS IS AN IMAGE OF AN, THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THE, UM, KIND OF PULL IN, UH, SIDE PARKING SPACE, UH, THIS PARKING SPACE, THIS, UH, CONCRETE IN THE FRONT, THE DRIVEWAY EXTENSION.
UM, THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS, UH, FOR THE VARIANCE IS TONIGHT FOR THE REQUEST TO HAVE A DRIVEWAY, UM, THAT IS WIDER IN WIDTH THAN WHAT THE CODE REQUIRES.
UM, THAT IS RESULTING IN THIS BY THIS EXTRA, UM, PARKING SPACE IN THE FRONT.
THE HOUSE WAS RECENTLY REMODELED.
UM, AND WITH THAT REMODEL, THE EXISTING GARAGE ON THE PROPERTY WAS CHANGED FROM A SIDE LOAD GARAGE TO A FRONT LOAD GARAGE.
UM, SO YOU CAN SEE THIS IS KIND OF A PREVIOUS PICTURE OF WHAT THE SITE LOOKED LIKE BEFORE THE ADDITION, AND THEN AFTER, UM, YOU CAN USE THAT, THAT TREE KIND OF AS A GAUGE POINT, UM, AND SHOWS THAT THERE WAS PAVEMENT IN A SIMILAR LOCATION PREVIOUSLY AND NOW, BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT CONDITION IN THE SENSE THAT, UM, THE PREVIOUS PAVEMENT WAS ALLOWED IN THAT LOCATION BECAUSE IT WAS A SIDE LOAD GARAGE.
AND NOW THAT IT IS A FRONT LOAD GARAGE, DIFFERENT RULES APPLY TO THAT SITE.
SO THIS IS THE TWO VARIANCES THAT ARE BEING REQUESTED.
SO THE FIRST VARIANCE IS FOR THAT SIDE YARD SETBACK.
UM, THAT'S SHOWN IN THAT, UH, SHADED RED AREA.
UM, HERE, I DON'T, NO, IT DOESN'T SHOW THAT
UM, THEY, THE CONCRETE FOR THE DRIVEWAY WAS EXTENDED TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
UM, THE CODE REQUIRES THAT ONCE, IF IT'S A FRONT-LOADED GARAGE, ONCE THE CONCRETE GOES PAST THAT FRONT OF THE GARAGE, THE, UM, FRONT BUILDING FRONTAGE, UM, THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED THEN DRIVEWAY ANYMORE.
AND THAT CONCRETE WOULD'VE HAD TO MEET THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, UM, THERE, WHICH IS EIGHT FEET.
AND THEY CURRENTLY HAVE A 3.9 FOOT SETBACK BETWEEN THE CONCRETE, UM, AND THE PROPERTY LINE.
THE SECOND REQUEST AGAIN, IS FOR THAT, UM, THE DRIVEWAY WIDTH.
THE CODE HAS A MAXIMUM, UM, OF 30 FEET IN WIDTH BETWEEN THE RIGHT OF WAY, LINE OF MAXIMUM WIDTH OF 30 FEET FOR THE DRIVEWAY BETWEEN THE RIGHT OF WAY LINE AND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE GARAGE.
UM, AND THEY'RE, THEY HAVE 49 FEET, UM, SHOWN WITH THAT RED ARROW OF WHERE THAT FRONTAGE EXISTS.
WHEN LOOKING AT THE VARIANCE CRITERIA, UH, THESE ARE THE CRITERIA FOR, UM, CRITERIA A, UM, AS, UH, LISTED IN THE, IN THE MEMO, UM, ALL THREE OF THESE CRITERIA STAFF DETERMINED THAT THE CRITERIA WAS NOT MEANT.
UM, IT WAS DECIDED THAT WITH NUMBER ONE, UH, THE SITE IS OF A TYPICAL SIZE AND LAYOUT OF MANY OF ITS NEIGHBORS, UM, AND THAT THERE WAS NO SIGNIFICANT NATURAL FEATURES THAT, UM, MAKES THE SITE UNIQUE IN, IN ANY WAY, UM, THAT WOULD MAKE THAT VARIANCE, UH, MEET THIS CONDITION.
UM, OH, THERE'S TWO ONES, BUT NUMBER TWO, THE, UH, VARIANCES IS, VARIANCES ARE NECESSARY DUE TO THE ADDITION TO THE HOUSE AND THAT HOUSE REMODEL, WHICH CHANGED THE GARAGE AGAIN, FROM A SIDE LOAD TO A FRONT LOAD GARAGE.
AND THEN WITH NUMBER THREE, THE PURPOSE, UM, SORRY.
THE, UH, THE CODE REQUIREMENT IS VERY SPECIFIC IN DISSUADING PEOPLE FROM HAVING THEIR DRIVEWAY CONTINUE AROUND THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
UM, AND THIS REQUEST IS IN DIRECT, UH, OPPOSITION OF THAT PURPOSE AND THE CODE FOR CRITERIA B.
UM, THE CODE REQUIRES THAT, AT LEAST, THAT THE BZA FIND THAT AT LEAST TWO OF THESE FOLLOWING ARE MET.
UM, STAFF HAS DETERMINED THAT TWO OF THE FOUR HAVE BEEN MET, UM, WITH NUMBER ONE SPECIAL PRIVILEGE.
WE STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT, UM, FOR BOTH VARIANCES, THE CRITERIA WAS NOT MET, UM, THAT THIS REQUEST WOULD CONFER A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE TO THIS PROPERTY OWNER THAT WOULD NOT BE GRANTED TO OTHERS.
UM, FOR NUMBER TWO, THAT THE VARIANCE REQUEST, UH, DOES MEET, UM, THAT, THAT CRITERIA, IT'S NOT A REOCCURRING VARIANCE IN THIS, IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD OR IN THE ZONING DISTRICT.
UM, THREE, THERE'S NO ISSUES WITH THE D DELIVERY OF GOVERNMENTAL SERVICES.
AND THEN NUMBER FOUR, UM, THE DRIVEWAY EXTENSION COULD BE REDUCED IN ORDER TO MEET, UM, THE CODE REQUIREMENTS.
SO WITH THAT, UH, PLANNING STAFF RECOMMENDS DISAPPROVAL OF VARIANCE, NUMBER ONE, THAT IS THE NON-USE VARIANCE FOR THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, UM, FROM SECTION 1 53 0.021 SUBSECTION C3.
UM, AND THEN ALSO RECOMMENDS DISAPPROVAL FOR THE SECOND VARIANCE, WHICH IS FROM SECTION 1 53 0.2 10, SUBSECTION
[00:10:01]
B FOUR A.UM, THAT WOULD BE TO PERMIT THE 49 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY BETWEEN THE RIGHT OF WAY LINE AND THE FRONT FACING GARAGE.
UM, SO WITH THAT, UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THOSE.
DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? UH, I HAVE A QUESTION.
SO, FOR VARIANTS, ONE, UH, YOU KNOW, I READ THIS THAT THE TOTAL OF SIDE YARD MUST BE 20 FEET.
I FEEL LIKE THAT'S MET IN TOTAL APPEARS TO BE 25 FEET IN TOTAL.
AND THE SECOND PART WAS MINIMUM OF EIGHT FEET ON, UM, THE ONE SIDE.
AND SO WHEN FACING THE HOUSE, THE LEFT SIDE HAD 21.1 FEET PER THE DRAWING ON THE SITE PLAN.
AND I'M CONFUSED ON WHY THEY DON'T MEET THE, WHY THE EIGHT FEET ON ONE SIDE ISN'T MET.
UM, THE CODE, OH, DO YOU WANNA, THE CODE REQUIRES THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF EIGHT FEET ON BOTH SIDES, AND THAT THEY HAVE TO COMBINE TO MAKE A MINIMUM OF 20 FEET.
SO IF ONE SIDE IS 10, THE OTHER ONE HAS TO BE 10 TO EQUAL 20, OR YOU COULD HAVE ONE AT EIGHT AND THE OTHER AT 12 TO MEET THAT 20.
UM, BUT BOTH HAVE TO MEET AT LEAST EIGHT FEET.
IT'D BE HELPFUL TO SEE THAT BECAUSE THE, IN THE PLANNING REPORT, IT SAID ON ONE SIDE, AND THEN WHEN I LOOKED UP THE CODE THE OTHER NIGHT, IT SPECIFIED ONE SIDE.
SO IS THERE ANOTHER PART OF THE, THE CODE THAT SAYS THAT ESSENTIALLY WE'VE, WE'VE APPLIED THE, THE MINIMUM SETBACK TO ANY SIDE YARD IS EIGHT FEET.
THE SECOND PART OF THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT IT'S THE TOTALITY OF THE TWO SIDES.
SO, UH, IT ENSURES THAT BOTH SIDES HAVE A MINIMUM BUFFER FOR NOT ONLY DRAINAGE, BUT SEPARATION FROM USES.
DID I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THE SETBACK, UH, APPLIES BECAUSE THE GARAGE IS NO LONGER SIDE LOADED? WAS, AND SO WHAT WAS THE NUMBER JUST TO, IT WAS ANOTHER FOUR FEET THAT THEY WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE IF IT WAS STILL SIDE LOADED, IF IT WAS SIDE LOADED AND CONSIDERED, UM, A DRIVEWAY.
IS THE, UM, TAMMY, IS THERE A MAXIMUM OR MINIMUM SETBACK FOR DRIVEWAYS FOR SIDE LOADED GARAGES? I DON'T KNOW THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, SO I DON'T WANNA CONFUSE THIS.
BUT IF IT WERE CONSIDERED A DRIVEWAY, A DRIVEWAY THAT WOULD BE FORWARD OF THE PROPERTY, THE MINIMUM SETBACK WOULD BE THREE FEET.
BUT BECAUSE IT EXTENDS BEYOND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE, IT THEN BECOMES A STRUCTURE.
AND THE EIGHT FEET IS THE REQUIREMENT.
AND THAT'S THE DRIVE THAT'S CONSIDERED THE STRUCTURE CORRECT.
AND YES, AND, AND NOT TO BE TOO, UH, TO BE VERY SPECIFIC.
ONCE IT EXTENDS BEYOND THE FRONT FACADE OF A HOUSE, IT'S NO LONGER A DRIVEWAY AND IT'S A STRUCTURE.
BUT PREVIOUSLY WHEN THEY DID HAVE A SIDE LOAD GARAGE THAT WAS CONSIDERED GARAGE AND JUST HAD TO BE THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OR DRIVEWAY, YEAH.
DID YOU HAVE YOUR QUESTION ADDRESS? SO JUST A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO MY INITIAL QUESTION.
IN TERMS OF THE TOTALITY, IS THAT WHAT THE CODE SAYS OR IS THAT HOW WE'VE INTERPRETED IT? I'M STILL CONFUSED BASED ON THE PLANNING REPORT SAYING ONE SIDE AND THEN WHAT I READ THE OTHER NIGHT SAYING ONE SIDE, THAT'S WHAT THE CODE SAYS IS THE MINIMUM SETBACK IS EIGHT FEET.
WHAT THE TOTALITY OF A, A SPECIFIC NUMBER IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE 20 FEET.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU SATISFIED? I JUST, I JUST THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT BE CLEAR, MORE CLEARLY LAID OUT.
DO PERHAPS, TAMMY, I THINK YOU GRABBED THE CODE BOOK.
DO YOU WANT TO, DO YOU WANNA WALK THROUGH JUST TO MAKE SURE WE'RE, WE'RE CLEAR ON THIS, UM, MS PORTION, 1 53? WE CAN, YEAH, WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, DAN? PATRICK, ANYTHING? I GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU.
YOU'RE REQUESTING THAT WE DISAPPROVE BOTH OF THESE VARIANCES? CORRECT.
IF WE GO FORWARD WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATION, WHAT THEN BECOMES OF THE HOMEOWNER'S OBLIGATIONS THEN AT THAT POINT,
[00:15:01]
THE, UM, EXISTING STRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T MEET THE CODE REQUIREMENT WOULD HAVE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE REQUIREMENT.THE, SO THAT WOULD, THEY WOULD'VE TO TEAR PORTIONS OF IT DOWN? YES.
DAN, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? NO, IT'S PROBABLY MORE, JUST TO BE CLEAR ON THIS, ELIZABETH, IF THE HOMEOWNER HAD COME TO STAFF BEFOREHAND AND HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY, YOU THERE WOULD'VE BEEN MOST LIKELY AN EDUCATION SESSION ABOUT WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE.
AND YOU WOULD THEN HAVE ADVISED THEM THAT IF THEY WANTED TO PROCEED IN THE MANNER OF WHICH THEY ULTIMATELY BUILT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME TO OUR BOARD TO GET THE VARIANCE.
THE CP Z A THAT THEY WOULD'VE TO GO TO AFTER THIS GROUP, WHAT IS THAT GROUP? THAT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS WHERE THEY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION AND A SITE PLAN AND WE REVIEW IT INTERNALLY.
DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE, JOEL? YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION ON VARIANCE TOO.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, AS I DUG INTO THE REQUIREMENT AND, UH, INTO THE CODE FURTHER, UM, IT'S, IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THE CODE WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT, UH, THAT NO DRIVEWAY PAVEMENT SHALL BE PERMITTED TO EXTEND BEYOND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE GARAGE.
UM, AM I CONFUSING THAT, IS THAT ALSO PART OF THIS REQUIREMENT? CORRECT.
UM, THAT IS WHY THE VARIANCE IS REQUIRED ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, BECAUSE ONCE THAT CONCRETE GOES PAST THE FRONT OF THE GARAGE, IT'S NO LONGER CONSIDERED A DRIVEWAY WITH A PERMITTED THREE FOOT SETBACK.
IT'S CONSIDERED A STRUCTURE WITH A REQUIRED EIGHT FOOT SETBACK.
IS THERE ANY, IS THERE ANY GUIDANCE OR PRECEDENT ON HOW FAR PAST IT IT HAS TO BE TO, TO TRULY BE CONSIDERED PAST, IS THE CUTOFF POINT RIGHT? AT THE END OF THE, THE STRUCTURE? YES.
I MEAN, LITERALLY YOU DRAW A PARALLEL LINE FROM WHATEVER THE MOST FORWARD PART OF THE HOUSE IS.
IT'S ESSENTIALLY TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S A, NOT A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PARKING OR PAVEMENT IN THE FOREFRONT OF A HOUSE.
THAT IT'S, THAT THAT DOESN'T DOMINATE THE APPEARANCE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
SOMETIMES IT'S EASIER TO TALK ABOUT INTENT.
SO WE'VE HAD DISCUSSION IN THE PAST ABOUT WHETHER, I THINK SPECIFICALLY WHEN TALKING ABOUT KIND OF A PERTINENT STRUCTURES AND WHETHER THERE'S A CONNECTING STRUCTURE, A BREEZEWAY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, ALSO WHEN WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MAYBE PERGOLAS BEFORE, AND I THINK THAT IT SEEMS LIKE IN THE PAST WE'VE SAID THAT, THAT CERTAIN STRUCTURES DIDN'T MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT TO BE A STRUCTURE.
NOW I REALIZE THAT THIS, BY DEFINITION IS SAYING THAT THAT PAD ALONE IS A STRUCTURE, I GUESS I'M HAVING TROUBLE DETERMINING.
SO IT'S JUST FOR THE SAKE OF, OF THE FACT THAT IT'S PAST THE HOUSE, THAT IT'S CONSIDERED A STRUCTURE.
I GUESS THAT ALL MAKES SENSE AS I TALK THROUGH IT.
BUT, BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OTHER STRUCTURES THAT PROPERTIES LOOK AT ADDING, THEY'RE MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT BEFORE WE CONSIDER THAT TO BE A STRUCTURE.
I GUESS THERE'S NOT REALLY A QUESTION THERE.
IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THIS WOULD BE
SO TAMMY, WERE YOU ABLE TO LOCATE THAT CODE SECTION? YEAH, SO THE EXACT LANGUAGE SAYS FOR DWELLINGS AND ASSOCIATED BUILDINGS, THERE SHALL BE A TOTAL OF SIDE YARDS OF 20 FEET.
SO THAT'S TOTALITY OF BOTH, UH, WITH A MINIMUM OF EIGHT FEET ON ONE SIDE.
AND, AND I, I GUESS I SHOULD STAND CORRECTED.
WE HAVE INTERPRETED THAT TO MEAN ANY ONE SIDE.
[00:20:01]
EIGHT FEET.EIGHT FEET, THAT STILL WOULD MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
EIGHT FEET AND 12 FEET WOULD MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
SO AM I, AM I FOLLOWING THAT CORRECTLY THEN? THEY, THEY DO MEET ON THE VARIANCE ONE, THE TOTAL, THE SIDE YARD MUST BE 20 FEET.
THEY MEET THAT IT'S 25 FEET IN TOTAL AND THEN MINIMUM OF EIGHT FEET ON ONE SIDE, THEY WOULD MEET THAT.
BASED ON THAT, ANY ONE SIDE NEEDS TO MEET.
SO THE TOTALITY, THEY MEET THE MINIMUM SIDE YARD.
THEY DO NOT MEET, THEY MEET THE TOTALITY OF 20 BECAUSE THEY HAVE 21 AND EIGHT, SO THAT'S 29.
BUT ANY ONE SIDE HAS TO BE EIGHT FEET.
THE CHALLENGE, I GUESS THERE IS, DOES IT SAY ANY ONE SIDE OR ON ONE SIDE?
DO YOU WANNA BRING UP THAT ONE PHOTO AGAIN? THE, WITH THE RED, UH MM-HMM.
JOEL, DO YOU WANNA TALK THROUGH THIS? I THINK THIS ON THIS ASPECT, I, I DON'T HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS ON THE FIRST VARIANCE.
I'LL HOLD IT FOR THE DISCUSSION ON VARIANCE TOO.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY.
SPECIFICALLY ON THE PART ABOUT NO DRIVEWAY PAVEMENT SHALL BE PERMITTED TO EXTEND BEYOND THE FRONT, THE SIDE OF THE GARAGE.
WHEN WE LOOK AT THE IMAGE HERE, IF, IF WE FLIP IT AND YOU'RE FACING THE HOUSE, ARE WE SAYING THAT APPLIES TO THE 12.6 FOOT STRETCH ON THE RIGHT SIDE AND THE, THE PART THAT HANGS OUT TO THE LEFT OR JUST ONE OF THOSE TWO? WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? CAN WE BRING UP THE ONE PHOTO OF THE, WE'RE FACING THE FRONT OF THE, YEAH, SO MM-HMM.
SO YEAH, ON THE, THE LEFT HAND PICTURE, THE STRETCH OF THE DRIVE DRIVEWAY, THAT'S TO THE LEFT.
IF YOU PULL ON THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN TURN LEFT.
DOES THAT PART TRIP THAT OR IS IT JUST THE RIGHT SIDE? NO, IT IS THAT PART THAT YOU TURN LEFT THAT PARKING SPACE THAT'S IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE THAT MAKES THAT WIDTH MORE THAN 30 FEET.
UM, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EXTRA, UM, CONCRETE ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE FOR VARIANCE.
DOES INTENT TO PARK IN AN AREA, IS THAT PART OF DEFINING IT AS A DRIVEWAY OR DOES INTENT TO PARK THERE? NOT MATTER FOR WHAT THE DEFINITION OF DRIVEWAY THAT WAS PART OF THE REGULATIONS WHEN WE MODIFIED THE CODE TO INCLUDE THIS, WHETHER, WHETHER THAT'S THE ACTUAL USE OF THE PAVEMENT AS A DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT CATEGORY.
BUT THE, AGAIN, THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO MINIMIZE PAVEMENT FORWARD OF A STRUCTURE SO THAT, THAT YOU HAVE FUNCTIONALITY TO THE GARAGE, BUT THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF PAVEMENT.
UM, BUT WE DID FIND THAT PEOPLE WERE, UM, CREATING BASICALLY PARTS OR PORTIONS OF THEIR DRIVEWAY FOR PARKING.
UM, AND THAT WAS CREATING EXCESSIVE PARKING.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? SO, SO IF I'M FOLLOWING RIGHT, IT'S A YES ON THE YES.
WAS A KEY COMPONENT PART OF IT.
PART OF IT THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM.
WOULD THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO COVER THAT PART AND MAKE IT A CARPORT, OR, OR IS THAT, WOULD THAT VIOLATE CODE AS WELL AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE AREA IN THE FRONT OR ON THE SIDE? THE FRONT IN FRONT OF IT? NOT THAT I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING FOR THE DEFINITION TO HIS POINT ON USAGE, IF THAT WAS LIKE A CARPORT, WOULD THEN IT NOT BREAK THE WIDTH VARIANCE? IT, I MEAN, IT COULDN'T BE PART OF THIS CONSIDERED THE DRIVEWAY.
SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT THRESHOLD WOULD BE IF WHAT STAFF, UM, HAS DONE ON A REGULAR BASIS.
BUT IF IT WAS LIKE A STRUCTURE OR AN ADDITIONAL GARAGE KIND OF THING, THEN I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE PART OF A BUILDING.
OR A STRUCTURE AND NOT JUST, UM, A SLAB ON THE GROUND.
AND THEN, SORRY, JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, UH, WE DON'T HAVE TO BRING IT UP.
THE OTHER DIAGRAM SHOWS THE 12 FOOT FOR THE FIRST VARIANCE I SEE IN THIS PICTURE HERE ON THE LEFT WHERE IT BOWS OUT A BIT BEFORE IT BOWS OUT IS, IS IT BEYOND THE 3.9 FEET? SO, SO IT KIND OF GOES OUT WHERE YOU GET TO THE GARAGE, BOWS OUT TO THE RIGHT A LITTLE BIT MM-HMM.
[00:25:01]
UP TO THERE, WOULD THAT ALSO VIOLATE THE, THE EASEMENT THERE OF 3.9 FEET, EIGHT FEET? I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT MEASUREMENT.UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT THE ANSWER.
HANG ON, YOU'RE NOT ON MIC, SO LET'S HANG TIGHT.
YEAH, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY INCREASE THE NUMBER IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT BUMPS OUT.
WE TRIED TO MEASURE THE WIDTH, THE GREATEST WIDTH.
UM, HONESTLY, I CORRECT MYSELF, THE GREATEST WIDTH WOULD'VE BEEN WHERE THIS, CAN YOU, CAN YOU GO TO WHERE THE DRIVEWAY? YEAH.
SO THAT ARROW, WE CHOSE THE WIDEST PORTION OF THE DRIVEWAY FORWARD OF THE BUILDING.
IF YOU TRANSITION THAT TO THE SOUTH, THAT'S GONNA BE A SMALLER DISTANCE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
AND, AND SO THAT EXTRA, NOT TO NITPICK, BUT THAT, THAT FOOT AND A HALF OR SO, FROM WHERE YOUR ARROW IS FINDING THE WIDEST POINT THERE TO BACK BEFORE IT BOWES OUT A LITTLE BIT, WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT VIOLATE THE DISTANCE AS WELL? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE THE LAST QUESTION.
I WANT TO KIND OF GO BACK WHERE I WAS GOING BEFORE.
LOOKING AT THIS, WHAT WE HAVE UP RIGHT NOW, CAN YOU KIND OF OUTLINE WHAT THEY WOULD NEED TO DO TO BE IN COMPLIANCE? SURE.
UM, SO THE RED SHADED IN AREA THAT WOULD NEED TO BE, UH, BROUGHT IN FROM THE SIDE LOT LINE TO, SO THEY WOULD MAINTAIN AN EIGHT FOOT SEPARATION BETWEEN THE EDGE OF THE PAVEMENT AND THE, AND THE SIDE, UH, PROPERTY LINE.
UM, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE 12.6 BETWEEN, SO THEY WOULD, THEY COULD HAVE LIKE A FOUR FOOT STRIP THERE, BUT NOT, NOT THE WIDTH THAT THEY HAVE NOW.
UM, IF THAT WAS BROUGHT IN, THEN THAT WOULD BE FINE.
AND THEN IN THE FRONT FOR VARIANCE TWO, UH, THAT WIDTH, BASICALLY THE WHOLE CONTINUOUS WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY WOULD, WOULD NEED TO BE 30 FEET OR LESS IN, UM, IN WIDTH.
SO I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY WHERE THEY HAVE THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT PARKING SPOT IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
UM, BUT THERE ALSO MAY BE A SLIGHT ISSUE WITH HOW THE DRIVEWAY BOWS OUT TO GO TO THAT SIDE PORTION.
UM, THEY MAY HAVE TO JUST KIND OF TAKE THAT DRIVEWAY STRAIGHT TO THE GARAGE INSTEAD OF BOW TO MAINTAIN THAT 30 FEET BASICALLY RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR GARAGE.
CUZ THE GARAGE IS 30 FEET IN WIDTH.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE 20 FEET OVER WITH REGARD TO THE, THAT SECOND VARIANCE.
SO THEY GOTTA ELIMINATE 20 FEET OF CONCRETE AND THEN THEY HAVE TO ELIMINATE HOW MUCH CONCRETE ON THAT KIND OF, THAT SIDE PATH.
WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE ENTIRE WIDTH OF THAT SECTION OFF THE GARAGE? 12.6.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FROM THE GARAGE TO THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE? NO, NOT THE, JUST THE ACTUAL, HOW, WHAT'S THE FOOTAGE OF THE, THE CONCRETE ITSELF? THE PATH FOUR.
WE GOOD? I'M SURE WE'RE GONNA HAVE MORE.
JOHN, JANE, YOU WANT TO, DO YOU WANT TO, YOU BOTH CAN COME UP.
LET'S MAKE SURE WE TAKE TURNS, UH, FOR YOUR PRESENTATION HERE OR JUST ONE OF YOU? YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
MAKE SURE THE MIC'S ON WHEN YOU TALK, WHEN YOU'RE NOT TALKING, IF YOU COULD REMEMBER TO TURN IT OFF.
AND THEN, UH, JUST FOR THE RECORD, JUST IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR FULL NAME AND ADDRESS.
UH, WE RESIDE 31 65 LILLY MAR COURT.
AND, UH, IT'S NICE TO MEET YOU.
WE HAD NO INTENTION OF EVER BEING IN THIS POSITION
[00:30:01]
TO EVER MEET ANYBODY THIS WAY.UH, BUT HAVING SAID THAT, UM, I WANT TO KIND OF WALK YOU THROUGH SOME OF THE HISTORY, UH, CAUSE I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.
AND THEN, UH, TALKED, UH, TO THE DOCUMENT ABOUT, ESPECIALLY I THINK THE WORD INTENT WAS REALLY WAS USED A COUPLE TIMES.
AND THEN KIND OF VERIFY FROM WHAT WE CAN SEE, WHAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED.
UM, WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND, UH, HAVE DONE IT.
YOU CAN SEE A SIGNIFICANT REMODEL TO THAT.
UH, IN THAT TIME WE PUT A FENCE UP, ALMOST THE WHOLE BACKYARD'S NOW FENCED IN.
WE PUT A SHED IN ALL OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS.
SO I WANNA IMPRESS UPON YOU WE'RE NOT, OUR INTENTION WAS NEVER TO TRY AND GET AWAY WITH SOMETHING OR SNEAK SOMETHING IN.
UH, THE CONTRACTOR DID NOT HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DRIVEWAY AND THE SIDE PART JUST BECAUSE AT THE TIME WE HAD TO SIGN THE CONTRACT WITH DAVE FOX, WE COULDN'T DECIDE ALL OF THE PARTICULARS ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY.
UH, WE USED THE CEMENT CONTRACTOR THAT WAS USED ON OTHER PORTIONS WHEN WE WENT THROUGH WITH HIM AND FIRST STARTED LAYING IT ALL OUT.
UM, THIS IS WHERE WE MADE OUR FATAL MISTAKE IN THAT, IN TALKING WITH PEOPLE AND TALKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR, KEEP THE SIMILAR FOOTPRINT.
YEAH, WE CAN PUT THIS OVER HERE.
WE ARE NOT TRYING TO TAKE AWAY ANY RESPONSIBILITY ON OUR PART.
HAD WE DONE THAT, WE WOULDN'T BE STANDING HERE TODAY CUZ WE WOULD'VE ADJUSTED IT TO, TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.
UH, HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, UH, A FEW THINGS.
IF YOU CAN GO TO THE OTHER DECK, PLEASE.
THERE'S ONE, UH, YEAH, THE VERY FIRST PAGE.
SO IT, IT WAS KIND OF MENTIONED, BUT YOU CAN SEE PREVIOUSLY THAT'S OUR HOUSE ON THE LEFT AND OUR NEIGHBOR, UH, DANE FORD'S HOUSE ON THE RIGHT AND OUR DRIVEWAYS WERE RIGHT UP AGAINST EACH OTHER.
UM, SO AS FAR AS FROM A PRIVACY VIEWPOINT, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND YOU CAN SEE OURS AND MANY OTHER DRIVEWAYS NOT ONLY GOES STRAIGHT BACK, THEY WENT BEHIND THE PROPERTY.
UH, AND, AND THAT'S A, THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOVE IS IT TALKS ABOUT ALL THE ONE ACRE LOTS, THE MATURE TREES.
UM, UH, IT WAS DISCUSSED AT VERY TYPICAL.
I, I WOULD DISAGREE THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE TYPICAL IN, UH, THE SIZE AND BEING ABOUT ONE ACRE.
THEY'RE NOT TYPICAL IN THE LAYOUT.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, YOU HAVE ABOUT 11, UH, FRONT LOADS.
YOU HAVE DRIVEWAYS THAT ARE SIDE BY SIDE.
YOU HAVE DRIVEWAYS THAT ARE ONE SIDE OF ONE PROPERTY.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT OUR PROPERTY IS WE NEVER HAD 10 FEET BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAYS AT THE TOP.
WE NEVER HAD 20 FEET BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAYS AT THE BOTTOM.
THEY WERE THE, THEY'RE THE CLOSEST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, SO IF, IF WE HAD KEPT, UH, A SIDE LOAD, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY.
UH, EVEN THOUGH WITH OUR CURRENT CONFIGURATION, THERE'S ACTUALLY MORE PRIVACY, UH, AND, AND ROOM BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAYS.
BUT, UM, IF YOU, UH, I THINK YOU'VE ALREADY SHOWED GOOD PICTURES OF OUR, OF OUR HOUSE BEFORE.
SO, BUT IF YOU COULD BRING UP THE PRESENTATION YOU HAD.
UM, CUZ I JUST WANTED, AND WHEN YOU SHOWED OUR, UH, DRIVEWAY IN TOTALITY, MOST OF THE, UH, I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY NOTES, SEE HOW MANY MAJORITY OF THE, UH, FRONT LOAD DRIVEWAYS HAVE SOME KIND OF A, I I CALL 'EM A TURNAROUND.
SO THEY CAN COME OUT, TURN BACKWARDS AND PULL FORWARD OUT OF THEIR DRIVEWAY TO MAKE IT SAFER.
YOU'LL SEE MOST PEOPLE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER SIDE YARD SO THEY CAN PUT IT IN THE YARD BETWEEN THEIR NEIGHBORS.
YOU GO TO THE, YEAH, IF YOU LOOK ON THE LEFT, UM, THIS IS ONE THING WE NEED TO TALK TO.
WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE CLARIFICATION.
I, I DON'T CONSIDER THE DRIVEWAY WHERE YOU SEE THE DOOR ON THE LEFT, YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT, THE ENTRY, IF YOU SAY 30 FEET, YOU'RE SAYING THAT PLANTER WITH THOSE TWO FLOWERS AND THAT DOOR, OUR DRIVEWAY TO, TO US, THAT'S A, THAT'S A WALKWAY INTO THE HOUSE.
YOU, YOU'RE NOT GONNA DRIVE A CAR.
IT'S NOT A RIGHT OF WAY TO DRIVE INTO IT.
UM, BUT SO IF YOU TAKE THAT LINE THAT'S IN FRONT OF THOSE, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THOSE FLOWERS, JANE.
BUT ANYWAY, THE IN FRONT OF THAT A LITTLE BIT.
AND YOU GO STRAIGHT OUT TOWARDS OUR YARD AND THEN YOU GO TO THE RIGHT, THAT'S ABOUT 30 FEET.
[00:35:01]
UH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT LESS DEPENDING ON WHERE, WHAT WE WOULD TAKE, HAVE TO TAKE OUT TO MEET THE VARIANCE.YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A SIDEWALK.
WE TRIED TO INTEGRATE THE SIDEWALK AND THE TURNAROUND TOGETHER.
OUR INTENTION WAS YOU PULL OUT OF THE HOUSE, YOU BACK INTO THAT, AND THEN YOU PULL OUT.
WE HAD THE DEEPEST SETBACK IN THE 117 FEET.
YOU CAN SEE THE PICTURE OF HOW FAR IT IS BACK THERE.
WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID BACKING ALL THE WAY OUT OF OUR DRIVEWAY.
IF I UNDERSTAND THE CODE CORRECTLY, WE COULD, IF IT WAS AS SIMPLE TO CUT OUT, IT WOULD BE ABOUT A 12 BY 19 PIECE THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CUT OUT OF THAT UPPER SLAB FOR THE TURNAROUND.
IF I COULD SOMEHOW MAGICALLY PICK THAT UP AND PUT IT RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF THAT GARAGE DOOR ON THE LEFT WHERE THAT GRASS IS, IT WOULD MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
UH, ACTUALLY WE COULD COME DOWN FURTHER AT THE 30 FEET.
SO THE, THE COMMENT ABOUT THE INTENT IS NOT TO HAVE A MASS OF CEMENT.
WELL, OUR INTENT WAS YOU WOULDN'T SEE A MASS OF CEMENT FROM THE ROAD.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THIS CLOSER TO THE HOUSE INTEGRATED WITH THE SIDEWALK AS OPPOSED TO COMING DOWN ANOTHER 30 OR 40 FEET, WHICH WE COULD, AND MAKE THAT 30 FOOT WIDE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THAT.
UH, IF YOU HAVE THE PICTURE OF THE SIDE, OR I KNOW IT'S DRAWING ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, I THINK THERE'S, IS THERE, UH, OF THE FINISHED, GO TO THE ONE THAT'S, YOU CAN, UH, KEEP GOING PLEASE.
YOU, YOU CAN SEE THERE ON THE, ON THE PICTURE ON THE RIGHT.
THAT'S BEFORE IT WAS IN, IN PROCESS, ABOUT FIVE FEET OF THAT WOULD NEED TO BE CUT OUT.
AND THAT WOULD EXTEND ALL THE WAY TO THE VERY BACK CUZ IT'S ALL THE WAY PAST THE BACK OF OUR GARAGE.
AND SO YOU CAN WALK AROUND IT, BUT IF YOU WANTED TO KEEP THAT EIGHT FOOT, WE'D HAVE TO CUT OUT ABOUT A FIVE FOOT BY 50 FOOT PART OF CEMENT.
AND AS YOU WERE RIGHT ON THAT CURVE, UH, BELIEVE ME, I'M OUT THERE AT SIX IN THE MORNING WITH MY TAPE MEASURE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY HOW THE CURVE AND THAT IT'S ABOUT A, THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE.
SO, UM, NINE BY 12, FIVE BY 50 WOULD HAVE TO COME OUT.
UM, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, OBVIOUSLY.
AND SO WE HAD, WE HAD GOOD DISCUSSIONS, UH, WITH TAMMY AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE VARIANCE.
I MEAN, AGAIN, WE, WE'VE GOT OURSELVES IN THIS SITUATION, BUT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE.
SO NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT, OKAY, WHAT, WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT OUR PROPERTY OR WHAT THE INTENT, WHEN I READ THE INTENT, AND IT WAS EVEN IN THE REPORT, THE INTENT OF THIS RULE ON THE SIDE WHERE FRONT LOAD IS TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN SIDE LOAD.
OUR SIDE LOAD COULD, WE WERE STILL SIDE LOAD.
WE COULD KEEP GOING OUT FARTHER THAN THIS WAS TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM DRIVING, UH, BESIDE THE HOUSE AND INTO THE BACKYARD AND PARKING CARS ON THE SIDE AND IN THE BACK.
OUR INTENTION WAS TO DRIVE OUR RIDING MOWER FROM THE FRONT THROUGH IT.
YOU CAN CAN'T REALLY SEE THERE'S A FENCE THERE.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE A FOUR OR FIVE FOOT GATE ON THE SIDE OF OUR HOUSE RIGHT THERE.
WE DON'T PUT THINGS ON THE SIDE.
OUR INTENTION'S NOT IF THE INTENTION, THE TRUE INTENTION IS TO KEEP, UH, FROM PARKING THERE.
THERE'S OTHER THINGS WE COULD DO BESIDES REMOVE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CEMENT.
IF THE IN, IF THE INTENTION IS NOT TO HAVE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CEMENT FROM THE VIEW IN THE FRONT, KEEPING IT THE WAY IT IS IS LESS CEMENT THAN IF WE MOVE THAT.
HAVE YOU, CAN YOU SHOW THE PICTURE OF THE, FROM THE, UH, STREET, THIS TO ME DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CEMENT.
IT'S, IT'S 14 FOOT ALL THE WAY UP.
YOU, YOU CAN'T EVEN KNOW WE'RE GONNA PUT BUSHES THERE ON THE SIDE OF THAT TURNAROUND.
YOU WON'T EVEN SEE THAT FROM THE STREET.
SO CAN CAN YOU GO TO THE, UH, UH, OTHER DECK? MM-HMM.
DRIVEWAYS OF LILLY MAR I REALLY, I, I DON'T WANNA SAY MY INTENTION IS NOT TO SAY LOOK AT SOMEBODY ELSE.
BUT I DO WANT TO IMPRESS UPON YOU, THIS IS NOT, EVERYTHING'S THE SAME IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
BASED ON THE LOT LAYOUTS BEING DIFFERENT, WHERE DRIVEWAYS ARE OF, OF THE 11 FRONT LOADS, YOU GOT 11 VARIATIONS OF THE SIDE LOADS.
THERE'S NOT, LIKE YOU GO INTO SOME NEWER DEVELOPMENTS AND EVERY DRIVEWAY LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME.
SO IF YOU'LL GO ON EACH OF THESE, I PUT OUR DRIVEWAY ON THE RIGHT AND THE OTHER HOUSE ON THE LEFT.
I HAVE NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT ANY OF THE HOUSES THAT ARE SHOWN ON HERE.
I FELT CREEPY TAKING PICTURES OF THEIR HOUSE, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS
[00:40:01]
IMPORTANT FOR YOU GUYS TO SEE.SO THERE YOU CAN SEE ON THE LEFT, THEY HAVE ROOM TO PARK ON THE LEFT SIDE.
IT'S NOT IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, BUT THEY HAVE ROOM ON THE SIDE.
WE DON'T HAVE ROOM ON THE SIDE.
THERE'S ONE, THERE'S A, THERE'S A PAD UP THERE ON THE RIGHT.
AGAIN, THEY HAVE ROOM ON THE RIGHT TO PUT THEIRS.
UH, NEXT ONE LOOKS LIKE THE SAME HOUSE, BUT IT'S NOT.
IT'S, YOU CAN SEE AGAIN THE PAD ON THE RIGHT SIDE BECAUSE OF THE, THE LOT THEY HAVE ROOM.
THIS TIME THEY HAVE ROOM ON THE LEFT, BUT IT'S JUST THE WAY THE HOUSE FACES.
AND IF YOU'LL NOTICE YOU'RE NOT SEEING OTHER DRIVEWAYS NEXT TO THESE DRIVEWAYS LIKE YOU ARE OURS.
BUT IT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD, I WOULD ARGUE IF THE INTENT IS NOT TO HAVE A BUNCH OF PARKING SPACES OR LOOKING LIKE IT OR HAVE A MASSIVE CEMENT, WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED THAT.
AND THE OTHER ONE I'M SURE IS FINE.
NEXT THIS ONE, THE, THE PAD GOES ALL THE WAY UNDER THOSE BUSHES TO THE LEFT UP BY THE HOUSE.
AND THIS IS, THIS IS A FRONT LOAD.
THIS ONE, THIS ONE HAS A LITTLE BIT CURVE TO IT.
HAS THE RIGHT WIDTH AND EVERYTHING.
THIS IS A NEW BUILD AND WE DO HAVE AN ACTUAL NEW BUILD IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING WITH THAT ONE.
IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT, PLEASE.
SO THE DRIVEWAYS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE VARIOUS STYLES AND PADS.
THERE'S TWO THEMES THAT WE FEEL MAKE OURS UNIQUE.
OURS SITS BACK A LONG WAY, 117 FEET THAT THAT'S THE WAY WE BUILT IT.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS KIND OF NE NECESSITATED TO, YOU KNOW, CHANGE THE GARAGE INTO LIVING SPACE.
WE THINK IT'S PLEASING LOOKING.
WE DON'T THINK IT'S OVERWHELMING LOOKING.
UH, IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE OF WHY WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE A HUNDRED, AN 117 FOOT DRIVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF A, A BACKEND MAKING THE GARAGE, UH, DRIVEWAY WIDER WILL LOOK LIKE MORE CEMENT, BUT WE'LL STILL BE PRETTY MUCH BACKING ALL THE WAY DOWN.
UH, THE SPOT AT THE SIDE, UH, BETWEEN OUR PREVIOUS DRIVEWAY AND OUR NEIGHBOR, IT'S THE CLOSEST BY FAR IN THE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
MANY DON'T, DON'T SHARE A DRIVEWAY SPACE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE YARD.
OUR, OUR DRIVEWAY, WE FEEL IS VERY MUCH IN LINE, UH, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO I I, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CRITERIA THAT WERE PUT UP, YOU KNOW, UH, LET ME JUST TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT.
SO ON THE PAD ON THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE, SO THE INTENTION, WELL WRITTEN INSIDE, UH, THE PLANTING CREAMS, THEY DON'T WANT DRIVEWAYS ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE DRIVING INTO THEIR BACKYARD.
AND WE'RE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT INTENTION.
AND IF, IF THIS WERE ALMOST ANY OTHER HOUSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THERE WOULD BE TONS OF ROOM OVER THERE.
WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.
SO OUR LOT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LOT WE BOUGHT, BUT IT'S A UNIQUE SHAPE OF DRIVEWAYS COMPARED TO THE OTHERS.
UM, THE GRANTING THE VARIANCE, WHEN I, WHEN I READ THE DOCUMENTS, IT TALKED ABOUT GRANTING THIS VARIANCE TO US THAT IT WILL NOT, THAT ONE OF THE RE THINGS, UH, STIPULATIONS IS THAT IT WILL NOT GRANT A, IT WILL NOT CAUSE A SUBSTANTIAL ADVERSE EFFECT TO THE PROPERTY OR IMPROVEMENT IN THE VICINITY AND NOT MATERIALLY IMPAIR THE INTENT OR PURPOSE.
WHEN, WHEN I READ THAT, IT KIND OF STRUCK ME WHEN I WAS READING THIS TO SAY SUBSTANTIAL ADVERSE EFFECT.
WHERE IS THE SUBSTANTIAL ADVERSE EFFECT FROM GRANTING US THIS VARIANCE? I, I HAVE TROUBLE SEEING THAT IN TOTALITY WITH THE, THE SPACE THAT'S IN THERE.
IT'S NOT A HINDRANCE TO OTHERS, IT'S NOT AN EYESORE, IT'S A MISTAKE.
AND, UH, WE'RE TRYING TO REMEDY THAT THE BEST THAT WE CAN.
UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE TURNAROUND, WE PUT IT WHERE IT IS TO INTEGRATE TO THE SIDEWALK.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LIMIT IS FOR A SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE.
IF IT'S THREE FEET OR FOUR FEET OR FIVE FEET, WHATEVER THAT IS, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD CUT AND LEAVE A SIDEWALK AND THEN CUT THE OTHER OUT.
AND AT THIS POINT WE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE.
UH, WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON THE DRIVEWAY AND MAKING IT LOOK NICE WITH THE WRAPAROUND ON
[00:45:01]
IT.AND I, I JUST, IT KILLS ME TO THINK ABOUT TAKING THAT OUT AND UH, DOING ANYTHING ELSE.
SO, UM, ANYTHING MAYBE WE WOULD DO IN THE FUTURE, PUT MORE CEMENT IN THE FRONT THERE SO OUR DRIVEWAY WOULD LOOK MORE MASSIVE FROM THE STREET.
I, WE EVEN, UH, THOUGHT WHEN WE WERE HAVING OUR PHONE CALL THE OTHER DAY, I WAS REMINDED THIS ISN'T, UH, LET'S MAKE A DEAL, WHICH I APPRECIATE THIS IS, WAS BASED ON FACTS AND, BUT IF THE CONCERN IS THAT THAT'S A LOOKING LIKE A DRIVEWAY ON THE SIDE, WE'RE OPEN TO DOING SOME KIND OF MODIFICATION THAT GETS APPROVED BY THE COUNCIL.
THAT'S A ARCHWAY OR SOMETHING THAT FOUR OR FIVE FEET WIDE THAT LOOKS NICE AT A ROD EYE OR SOMETHING THAT PREVENTS ANYONE FROM EVER DRIVING A VEHICLE ON THE SIDE.
CUZ THAT'S THE INTENT OF THIS.
WHEN YOU START GETTING INTO THE, I WAS CONFUSED AS YOU WERE ABOUT THE EIGHT FEET ON WHAT, AND 20 ON WHAT, WHEN THEY WERE SIX FEET APART BEFORE.
SO JUST BECAUSE IT'S A FRONT LOAD VERSUS SIDE LOAD, NOW THEY HAVE TO BE THIS MAMMOTH SPACE WHEN ACTUALLY NOW IS MORE, HAS MORE PRIVACY.
UM, OUR OUR NEIGHBORS, UH, OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR IS FINE WITH IT.
IT'S, WE'VE, THERE'S JUST NO CONCERN ABOUT DRAINAGE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, AND WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER TO KIND OF CLEAN UP THE WHOLE SPACE IN BETWEEN THERE.
SO I, I DON'T HAVE A MAGIC SOLUTION.
THE ONLY SOLUTION TO GO TO THE LETTER OF, OF THE, HOW IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED TO US IS TO REMOVE A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF CEMENT.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE, UH, YOU KNOW, HUMBLY ASKING FOR THE VARIANCE CUZ WE DO NOT SEE A SUBSTANTIAL ADVERSE EFFECT, UH, TO ANYONE FOR GRANTING THIS.
ANY, ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.
I, I'M SURE WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
JOEL, DO YOU WANNA GO AHEAD? COULD, COULD WE PULL BACK UP THE, THE PICTURE FACING THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE? MM-HMM.
SO I JUST WANNA CLARIFY LIKE CRYSTAL CLEAR FOR THE RECORD, LIKE YES OR NO ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THE STRIP OF CONCRETE THAT GOES PAST THE DRIVEWAY.
DO YOU INTEND TO PARK THERE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT? ON, ON THE LEFT SIDE, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE GARAGE? NEVER, NEVER GONNA PARK ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE GARAGE.
THEN ON THE, ON THE LEFT SIDE WHERE YOU TURN TO THE LEFT TURNAROUND, THE TURNAROUND, DO YOU INTEND TO PARK THERE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT? NO.
AND THEN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE GARAGE, THE PAVEMENT PAST THE GARAGE IN YOUR VIEW IS, WAS THAT SIMPLY REPAVING WHAT WAS ALREADY THERE? IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T GO AS FAR INTO THE BACKYARD.
THOSE ARE MY ONLY QUESTIONS FOR NOW.
SO JASON, REAL QUICK, DAN, JUST ONE, JUST ONE SECOND.
WHAT'S THE WIDTH ON THAT AGAIN? I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR.
I JUST, FROM MY MIND, WHAT'S THE WIDTH ON THE AREA ON THE RIGHT SIDE? PAST THE FRONT FACADE? THE, THE, THE PAD ON THE SIDE OF THE GARAGE? YES.
SO THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING FIVE, ABOUT FIVE FEET.
THERE'S SOME INCHES IN THERE, RIGHT? BUT IT'S ABOUT FIVE FEET THAT WOULD'VE TO BE TAKEN OUT.
TAMMY, DO YOU WANNA INTERJECT? GO AHEAD PLEASE.
YEAH, SO I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH THE CONVERSATION.
SO TO UH, MEMBER KRETZ CONVERSATION, THE REASON WHY WE WERE CONSIDERING THE PAVEMENT TO THE FOREFRONT OF THE HOUSE.
SO IN THIS PICTURE ON THE LEFT SIDE, THE DEFINITION OF DRIVEWAY, AND I'M JUST GONNA READ THIS, SO BEAR WITH ME.
IT'S HARD PAVED SURFACE OF A LOT IS THAT'S SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED OR RESERVED FOR MOVEMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES.
SO IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR PARKING, BUT IT'S, IT CAN INCLUDE MOBILITY OF VEHICLES.
UM, AND THEN THE SECOND THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS, AND I THINK I, I THINK MR. MILLER'S POINTS ARE WELL MADE OF THE NATURE OF THE AREA.
IT, IT CLEARLY STATES OR THIS IS AN OLDER COMMUNITY, UM, BUT MOST OF THESE HOUSES, I'M GOING TO SOMEWHAT SURMISE, THEY PREDATE OUR CODE REQUIREMENTS.
AND THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA OF ADOPTING CODE REQUIREMENTS IS TO BRING PROPERTIES INTO COMPLIANCE OPPOSED TO ALLOWING THEM TO FALL OUT OF COMPLIANCE.
[00:50:01]
OLDER COMMUNITIES LIKE THIS, IT IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY DO HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, A LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T MEET THE CURRENT CODE, BUT THE IDEA IS TO BRING THEM INTO CODE, IF THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE.BUT I, I DO AGREE THERE, THERE SEEMS TO BE COMPLEXITY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IF I, I COMMENT ON THAT JUST ONE SECOND.
I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR ON SOMETHING.
TAMMY, WITH HOMES THAT ARE OUT OF CODE, IT'S NOT AS IF YOU'RE GOING AROUND IT AND, AND FORCING ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY'RE GRANDFATHERED IN BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE AND OR THE ADJACENT STRUCTURES PREDATED WHEN THE CODES WERE APPROVED.
WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO ENFORCE EXISTING CONDITIONS.
IF THEY WERE IN TO MANIPULATE THOSE CONDITIONS, WE BRING THEM INTO COMPLIANCE.
BUT I GUESS MY, TO BE VERY CLEAR, MY STATEMENT, THE WHOLE IDEA OF NONCONFORMING IS THAT WE BRING PROPERTIES INTO COMPLIANCE.
YEAH, AND I, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT IT'S GONNA BE A HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE THAT HAPPENS TO BE REALISTIC.
THESE ARE OLDER HOMES, THEY'RE GONNA REPAVE THEIR DRIVEWAYS.
I UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION, UH, WHEN WE DID OUR FENCE, FOUR FOOT, 50 FOOT OFF MARTIN ROAD, WE'RE THE ONLY ONES.
AND SO, AND, AND UH, UNLESS SOMEONE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WHERE ANYBODY WOULD EVER TAKE THEIR FENCE DOWN, RIGHT? CUZ IT'S GRANDFATHERED IN.
SO YOU'RE NEVER GONNA GET THIS CONFORMITY.
AND, UH, SO I, I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT, UH, IF YOU LOOKED AT PICTURES OF THAT PLACE 30 YEARS AGO, YOU WOULD SEE 90% OF THE DRIVEWAYS ARE THE SAME AS THEY ARE TODAY.
WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT PICTURES OF THE NEIGHBORS AND YOU SAID A LOT OF THE HOUSES HAVE A LITTLE MORE ROOM TO THE SIDE OF THE GARAGE.
SO IN A LOT OF THE CASES, MAYBE THE GARAGE WAS HERE OUT TO THE RIGHT, THEY HAD THEIR TURNAROUND, A LOT OF 'EM HAD THE TURNAROUND THAT YOU'VE GOT FEATURED HERE.
UM, YOURS WOULD'VE BEEN IN THAT IN A SIMILAR SITUATION WITHOUT THE EXTENSION.
IS THAT CORRECT? WHEN YOU HAD THE SIDE LOADED GARAGE, IT DIDN'T EXTEND OUT AS FAR AS THIS OR IT DID.
SO OUR TURNAROUND, WHEN WE HAD A SIDE LOAD, WE JUST COULD BACK STRAIGHT UP TO THE, YOU KNOW, ALMOST INTO OUR NEIGHBOR'S YARD AND THEN GO, YOU KNOW, YOU WENT BACK AND THEN YOU WENT OUT.
BUT THE GARAGE ITSELF IS THIS EXTENDED, UH, FURTHER TOWARDS THE PROPERTY LINE THAN THE ORIGINAL GARAGE? I THINK YOU HAVE THAT PICTURE FROM MY FIRST, I'M NOT SURE I, THE VERY FIRST DECK.
YEAH, THERE'S, THEY'RE IN THERE.
THERE'S A PICTURE OF THE BEFORE DRIVEWAY.
AND YOU COULD, WHILE WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, I JUST, A QUICK QUESTION ON THE, SO, UH, MR. FORD HAD TESTIMONY HERE THAT, UH, HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH IT.
THAT'S YOUR NEIGHBOR? UH, THE NEIGHBORS, YOU LOOK AT OUR HOUSE, HE'S THE ONE WE SHARE THE PROXIMITY DRIVEWAY.
UH, IT WASN'T SIGNED OR DATED OR ANYTHING AT OH, I, I, YEAH, I, THAT WAS A MISTAKE.
AND THEN
IT WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT WE'VE WAS THROWN UP.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE WORKED OUT WITH OTHER SITUATIONS.
WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A, A NUMBER OF FEET, SOMETIMES THAT COULD BE A REMEDY.
YOU WOULD, AND YOU HAD A LOT OF PICTURES, COMPARATIVE PICTURES FROM BEFORE THIS PROJECT, YOU KNOW, A PICTURE DOWN THE PROPERTY LINE.
YOU KNOW, I REALIZE THAT YOU DIDN'T EXPECT THIS TO BE AN ISSUE.
WERE THOSE TAKEN? WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THOSE? OH, JUST WE TOOK THOUSANDS OF PICTURES JUST OF, OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT IF THINGS THERE WAS, BETWEEN OUR TWO DRIVEWAYS, THERE WAS A TON OF HONEYSUCKLE AND WE WERE DOING BEFORE AND AFTER PICTURES OF THE HONEYSUCKLE BEING GONE.
THE TREE THAT IS A NICE REFERENCE IN THE PICTURE, ACTUALLY FELL FROM HIS YARD ONTO OUR HOUSE THIS LAST YEAR.
SO THAT REFERENCE ISN'T THERE ANYMORE.
BUT YOU CAN SEE BEFORE THIS IS THE, THE GARAGE AS, AS YOU GUYS KNOW, TWO YEARS.
THANK YOU FOR PULLING THAT UP.
AND THEN SO THE, AND THERE'S ANOTHER PICTURE.
IT SHOWS FROM ABOVE, YOU CAN SEE THE TOTALITY OF IT.
MAYBE IT'S THE VERY FIRST PICTURE OF THE VERY FIRST DECK.
SO YOU SEE WHAT I'M ASKING THOUGH, IN TERMS OF ROOM TO TURN AROUND OR THE CONCRETE, THE CURRENT GARAGE SITS ON SOME OF THAT FORMER DRIVEWAY.
SO THE, THE, AT THE END OF THE, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE GARAGE DOOR AND UP THROUGH THE, UH, TOP OF THE GABLE END, THE NEW GARAGE IS RIGHT
[00:55:01]
THERE.UH, AND THEN LAST QUESTION I HAD, SO YOU HAD PREVIOUS VARIANCES FOR A SHED AND A FENCE.
CAN YOU TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THOSE? YEAH, WE, WE, UH, APPLIED FOR THOSE AND WE GOT THOSE.
THEY'RE ON THE SIDE AS A MATTER OF RECORD.
SO THE REASON I WANNA SAY THAT IS WE, WE WEREN'T TRYING TO PULL THE WOOL OVER ANYBODY'S EYES.
I MEAN, IF, IF THE WEATHER HAD NOT BEEN, UH, GOOD, THE FINAL INSPECTION WOULD'VE BEEN DONE BY DUBLIN BEFORE OUR DRIVEWAY WAS EVEN POURED.
SO WHO KNOWS THEN MAYBE IF SOMEDAY IF WE SELL IT, WE WOULD'VE FOUND THE PROBLEM.
SO WE WEREN'T TRYING TO HIDE IT FROM ANYONE.
UH, WE CAME BACK TO MOVE IN IN MARCH AND UH, OUR PROJECT MANAGER FROM DAVE FOX GOES, I GOT SOME BAD NEWS AND THIS WAS NOT THE BAD NEWS I WAS EXPECTING.
HE, HE SAID THE, THE PERSON HAD SAID THE, UH, THE SIDE, THE SIDE CEMENT.
NOW, IT WAS ONLY THIS WEEK THAT, OR LAST WEEK WE LEARNED ABOUT THIS 49 FOOT.
THAT WAS NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL DISCUSSION OF BEING OUT OF VARIANCE WHEN I GOT THE REPORT FROM THE PLANNING GROUP IS WHEN THAT CAME UP.
SO I RUSHING IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND ANSWER THAT.
SO ALL OF OUR WORK SINCE MARCH HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS SIDE PAD, BUT WE'VE NOW INCLUDED THE TURNAROUND AS WELL.
UM, SO, UH, WITH RESPECT TO THE, UM, RENOVATIONS THAT YOU MADE, UH, UM, JUST MAYBE BROADLY SPEAKING, WHAT WAS THE SORT OF, UH, INSPIRATION FOR THAT? WHAT, WHAT KIND OF GUIDED YOU TO, TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES? YEAH.
WELL WE, FIRST OF ALL, WE, WE I'VE, UH, WE MOVED BACK TO COLUMBUS AFTER BEING GONE FOR MANY YEARS.
I REMEMBER MARTIN ROAD AS BEING THE CUT THROUGH PEOPLE USED TO USE TO GET TO SAWMILL.
SO WHEN OUR REALTOR SAID THERE, THERE'S SOMETHING OFF MARTIN ROAD, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD SEE 10 HOUSES OR SAILING UPPER ARLINGTON, WE'D COME AND THEY WERE ALL GONE.
OR IN DUBLIN, CUZ WE WERE COMING FROM OUTTA STATE.
THE NEIGHBORHOOD GOT US, IT'S CHARMING.
THE TREES ARE HUGE, BUT THE HOUSE WAS A QUARTER OF THE SIZE OF THE ONE WE WERE COMING FROM.
UH, IT WAS A VERY SMALL HOUSE.
UH, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD TO, WE BOUGHT IT AFTER LOOKING AT IT ONE TIME.
UH, WHEN WE MOVED IN, WE OPENED THE GARAGE DOOR.
I PULLED MY CAR IN AND THE END OF IT WAS STILL OUTSIDE.
UH, SO THE GARAGE WASN'T EVEN DEEP ENOUGH.
SO, YOU KNOW, SO WE KNEW RIGHT AWAY WE WERE GONNA CHANGE IT, BUT WE LOVED THE YARD AND SO WE ENGAGED WITH DAVE FOX.
WE, WE WANTED A SCREENED IN PORCH.
WE LOVE SEEING THE BIG TREES IN THE BACK.
UH, SO THAT BATHROOMS WERE SMALL, SO WE CHANGED.
SO WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF WHAT, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE'RE SO HAPPY TO BE HERE, NOT HERE TONIGHT, BUT BACK IN OHIO AND, AND PART OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND, UH, I WISH I COULD GO BACK IN TIME AND, AND CHANGE IT.
WE WOULD'VE CHANGED THE DRIVEWAY EVEN THOUGH I PERSONALLY THINK YOU WOULD'VE SEEN A MASSIVE AMOUNT MORE OF CEMENT IN THE FRONT.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY WE THINK OURS IS UNIQUE AND TRIED TO COME TO A, GET AN AGREEMENT FOR A VARIANCE.
SO DO YOU KNOW, UM, WHEN ANY OTHER RENOVATIONS HAVE BEEN DONE TO THE, UH, THE PROPERTY ITSELF? OR IS THIS THE MOST SUBSTANTIAL SORT OF CHANGE? YEAH, THIS WAS BUILT IN 69 AND I THINK THAT WAS THE LAST TIME ANYTHING WAS DONE TO IT.
UM, ANY ANYTHING ELSE CHANGED ON THE INSIDE? LIKE SOME, UH, ESSENTIAL SORTS OF, UM, U UTILITIES LIKE PLUM PLUMBING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT WAS ASSESSING EVERYTHING.
IF, IF YOU WENT INSIDE, YOU WOULD, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A HOUSE BUILT IN 1969.
WE ALL NEW FLOORS, WE OUT THE BACK IS A BRAND NEW KITCHEN, 18 BY 18 SCREENED IN PORCH, UH, PUT ON A NEW MASTER BEDROOM AND BATH.
UH, ALL NEW ELECTRIC, ALL NEW PLUMBING.
UH, IN MANY WAYS IT PROBABLY WOULD'VE BEEN CHEAPER TO TEAR THE HOUSE DOWN AND, AND BUILD A NEW ONE, BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE COUPLE THAT DID THAT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO FROM WHAT I'M HEARING, THESE WERE A LOT OF, THERE WERE A LOT OF NECESSARY SORTS OF RENOVATIONS THAT OCCURRED, UH, IN THE, IN THE PROCESS THAT LED US SORT OF TO THIS, IT GETS TO HERE SITUATION.
THIS, THE DRIVEWAY WAS THE FINAL MM-HMM.
SO A LOT OF THAT WAS NECESSITATED BY SOME OF THESE NECESSARY ARRANGEMENTS THAT WERE EXACTLY.
WE, WE WANTED ROOM TO BE ABLE TO PARK TWO CARS.
YOU COULDN'T EVEN PARK ONE IN THE PREVIOUS GARAGE.
WE GOOD? DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT? WE DO NOT.
OKAY, SO ONLINE, THAT'S ONLINE, DON'T WORRY.
[01:00:01]
I'LL GET YOU ONLINE.ONLINE, UH, MR. MILLER, IF YOU WANNA JUST, UH, SIDESTEP FOR A SECOND AND WE'LL, WE, WE MAY HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK UP FOR OUR DELIBERATIONS.
UH, SIR, THOUGH, IF YOU WANNA APPROACH AND PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND, UH, PROVIDE US, UH, YOUR COMMENTS.
MAKE SURE IT'S GREEN THOUGH, IF IT WHEN YOU START.
MY ADDRESS IS 31 68 LILLY MARK ORT.
UH, I LIVE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.
I AM ABOUT TO ALIENATE MY NEIGHBOR.
I AM SORRY, BUT I'M ABOUT TO ALIENATE YOU IN THE FACT THAT I'M OPPOSED TO THIS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, ONE OF THE PICTURES HE SHOWED WAS ACTUALLY MY DRIVEWAY AS WELL.
UH, THIS WAS PUT IN, UM, ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO.
UH, I DID A GARAGE RENOVATION AS WELL.
I CAME TO PLANNING, UH, BEFOREHAND AND SUBMITTED MULTIPLE DIFFERENT IDEAS.
I COULD NOT PUT IN A SIDE LOAD GARAGE BECAUSE IT WOULD'VE LEFT A FOUR FOOT DROP OFF INTO MY NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
BUT THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY THAT PLANNING WOULD ALLOW ME TO PUT IN ANYTHING ELSE AS FAR AS A DRIVEWAY THAT COULD EXTEND BEYOND WHICH A SIDE LOAD ALLOWS YOU TO EXTEND BEYOND.
I WAS HELD TO WHAT JOEL WAS READING, THAT IT IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE MORE THAN 30 FEET WIDE, AND IT IS NOT TO PASS BEYOND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE GARAGE.
THOSE WERE THE TWO REQUIREMENTS THAT I WAS HELD TO.
AND THERE IS ANOTHER NEIGHBOR THAT WAS HELD TO THE SAME THING.
UM, DO, CAN WE BRING, IF ONE OF THE PHOTOS CAN WE BRING UP, GO THROUGH THE PHOTOS, YOU LET US KNOW WHAT PICTURE IS YOURS SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT? YES.
I'LL HAVE YOU LET HER KNOW WHEN, RIGHT.
NO, THERE'S, THERE'S A COUPLE MORE.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONE RIGHT THERE.
AND YOU'LL SEE THAT I AM FORCED TO BASICALLY BACK OUT.
I HAD PLENTY OF ROOM TO PUT A SIDE TURNOUT THERE, BUT I AM FORCED TO BACK OUT OF MY DRIVEWAY EACH AND EVERY TIME OR BACK IN WHICHEVER WAY I DO IT.
BUT I AM FORCED TO DO THAT BECAUSE I'M NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE A TURNOUT FOR THAT GARAGE, UH, IN THERE WITHIN THE 30 FOOT, UH, SPACING.
UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN SEE.
UM, I ACTUALLY, AND WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH THIS AND, UH, UM, I WENT OUT AND I MEASURED OTHER DRIVEWAYS THAT HAD TURNOUTS AND I MEASURED THEM AND THEY ALL WERE ACTUALLY WITHIN THE 30 FOOT REQUIREMENTS.
UM, THE NEIGHBOR JUST TO THE, UM, UH, WELL LEFT ON THIS PICTURE OF ME, UH, WAS, UH, ANOTHER ONE THAT, UM, UH, HAD A TURNOUT, BUT IT WAS, AGAIN, WITHIN THE 30 FOOT LIMIT.
UH, HE NOW HAS ONE WHERE HE HAS TO ANGLE PARK, UH, WITH THE RENOVATIONS HE PUT IT INTO WHERE HE ANGLE PARKS IN THERE, BUT STILL HAS TO BACK OUT.
SO AS FAR AS, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS, AND I'M SORRY, I, I I TRULY AM SORRY.
I REALLY WISH THAT YOU WOULD'VE HAD THIS KNOWLEDGE BEFORE YOU PUT ALL OF THAT CONCRETE IN.
I THOUGHT, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, I, THE CONTRACTORS, ALL OF
[01:05:01]
'EM THAT I TALKED TO HAD THIS KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT DUBLIN REQUIREMENTS WERE.THAT'S THE REASON I DID THIS UPFRONT AND HAD TO PUT IN THIS STYLE.
I WOULD'VE REALLY RATHER HAD A TURNOUT THERE THAT I COULD HAVE USED TO BE ABLE TO TURN OUT AS WELL.
NO, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
YOU, WHEN YOU HAD TALKED WITH THE CITY AT THE TIME, THEY TOLD YOU BY CODE YOU COULDN'T DO THAT, YOU OF COURSE COULD HAVE APPLIED FOR A VARIANCE I DID TWICE WITH THE IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD.
THESE ARE CASES, THERE SHOULD BE CASES ON RECORD OF MY REQUEST FOR VARIANCE.
SO YOU, YOU ACTUALLY SUBMITTED PAPERWORK FOR A YES.
WHAT I, I'M GONNA DEDUCT A COUPLE OF THINGS.
PERHAPS WE DIDN'T GET A COMPLETE APPLICATION THAT USUALLY, UH, BRINGS IT TO THE POINT.
NO, I ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY CAME IN WITH A VARIANCE.
TALKED TO THE BOARD, JUST LIKE HE IS DOING RIGHT NOW WITH THE PAPERWORK AND EVERYTHING.
AND WAS FLATLY TURNED DOWN TWICE.
WAS THAT TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS OR TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, I BELIEVE.
SO, SO THIS WOULD BE THE BOARD THAT YOU WOULD'VE ATTENDED? IT WAS IN, UH, DIFFERENT PLACE OVERALL FROM ROAD AT THE TIME.
DO YOU THINK MAYBE, DO YOU THINK THAT YOU CAME IN AND TALKED TO STAFF? COULD THAT BE IT? YES, I TALKED TO STAFF, YEAH.
I, I CAME IN TO STAFF INITIALLY.
I FILLED OUT ALL THE PAPERWORK REQUESTING A VARIANCE.
AND, UH, LIKE I SAY, I DID THAT TWICE WITH TWO DIFFERENT PROPOSALS.
BA BASICALLY THE FIRST ONE WAS A PROPOSAL WITH WHAT I, UH, WANTED WITH A FRONT LOADING.
THE SECOND ONE WAS A, UH, DESIGN TO SHOW THAT A SIDE LOADED GARAGE WAS NOT PRACTICAL IN THE FACT THAT, LIKE I SAID, LEFT A FOUR FOOT, UM, OFFSHOOT THREE FEET OF TO, UH, DUMP ONTO THE NEIGHBOR'S, UH, PROPERTY.
SO YES, THERE WERE, THERE WERE TWO TIMES WHEN I CAME IN HERE AND ASKED FOR A VARIANCE JUST LIKE THIS.
SO WHAT I'M, I'M SLIGHTLY DEDUCTING.
WE PROBABLY WERE IN CONVERSATIONS FOR A VARIANCE, BUT YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY ATTEND THIS MEETING BEFORE, RIGHT? I ATTENDED, I ATTENDED A MEETING.
NOW, WHETHER OR NOT YOU, YOU SAID, UH, JOEL, I THINK YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A, AN APPEALS VERSUS A PLANNING AND ZONING, UH, MEETING.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF MEETINGS, I GUESS.
SO THIS IS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
THERE'S OTHER, UM, FORUMS FOR ME, THE, IT'S HARD TO GO OFF OF, UM, LIKE WITHOUT CERTAINTY.
SO FOR ME, I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION FOR YOU.
UH, IF YOU, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT IF YOU HADN'T GONE THROUGH ALL OF THAT, YOU OTHERWISE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THIS KIND OF SETUP GIVEN YOU'VE SOUGHT A SIMILAR SETUP YOURSELF, BUT YOU FEEL GENERALLY IT SHOULD BE APPLIED THE SAME? YES.
THAT THAT IS, THAT IS WHAT, UH, BASICALLY WHERE I'M COMING FROM IS THAT I, I, IF NOTHING ELSE, I JUST WANNA MAKE THE STATEMENT THAT I WAS NOT ALLOWED MY NEIGHBOR TO THE RIGHT.
UM, YES, THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
WHAT YEAR DID YOU DO YOUR DRIVEWAY? I DIDN'T DIG THAT UP.
IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, PROBABLY FIVE YEARS AGO WAS WHEN I FINALLY DID THE CONCRETE PORTION OF IT.
UM, I DID THE GARAGE, I WANNA SAY IN 2016 OR 17 MAYBE, WAS WHEN I DID THE GARAGE AND WENT THROUGH ALL OF THIS.
THE DRIVEWAY HAD TO REMAIN HALF PAVE, HALF GRAVEL FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.
SO, UH, BUT THE GARAGE AND DESIGN THE GARAGE TO WHERE I COULD GET THE DRIVEWAY AND EVERYTHING, I BELIEVE IT WAS SIX, UH, 2016.
I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK, BUT MY NAME IS NOT VERY COMMON.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT RECORDS, YOU OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO PING MY NAME.
[01:10:01]
LOT MORE CRITICAL THAN YOU THINK, ACTUALLY.SO I'M GONNA HAVE TO HAVE CONFIRMATION IF HE WAS IN FRONT OF THE BOARD AND THERE WAS A DENIAL ON TWO VARIANCES, THAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
IF SOMEHOW YOU WERE ADVISED BY STAFF AND DID SOMETHING INCORRECTLY, WHICH I'M NOT PRESUMING YOU DID, I HAVE NO IDEA MM-HMM.
AND SO, WHILE THIS CONVERSATION IS TAKING PLACE, CAN YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME FOR ME? M A S MM-HMM.
I'M GONNA DO SOME RESEARCH WHILE YOU THAT'S FINE.
YOU CAN, I THINK WE'RE THESE MOST HAVE A QUESTION FOR, UM, THE PUBLIC, UH, COMMENT, GENTLEMEN.
WE MAY CALL YOU BACK UP IF YOU WANT TO SIT TIGHT JUST FOR A SECOND.
ELIZABETH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.
UH, IN REGARD TO THE, UM, THE SIDE SIDE OF THE GARAGE MM-HMM.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO THAT, THAT WOULD REMOVE, LEMME SAY IT LIKE THIS, THAT MAY REQUIRE A DIFFERENT VARIANCE, BUT IT WOULD BE FOR SOMETHING LIKE A, A SEPARATE STRUCTURE THAN JUST THE DRIVEWAY, RIGHT? AM I SAYING THAT CORRECTLY? I, I UNDERSTAND.
YEAH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
SO WE HAD, UH, SPOKE WITH MILLERS.
I, I, I WANT TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, THE INTENT OF THE CODE IS NOT ONLY TO PREVENT THIS AREA TO BE USED FOR A PARKING AREA, OR EXCUSE ME, A DRIVEWAY, WHETHER IT'S PARKING OR MANEUVERABILITY, BUT IT'S ALSO TO PROVIDE A MINIMUM SEPARATION BETWEEN A PROPERTY LINE AND A STRUCTURE.
UH, THERE ALREADY WAS ESSENTIALLY A STRUCTURE THERE WITH THE DRIVEWAY PREVIOUSLY.
SO I'M NOT, I'M JUST SAYING I THINK WE'VE SETTLED THAT.
I DON'T WANNA SAY THAT THEY'RE GRANDFATHERED IN.
BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF THEY HAD A SIDE LOW GARAGE.
SO IF I, THERE WAS SOMETHING DONE.
I'M JUST, I'M JUST, I'M TRYING TO CONCEPTUALIZE SOMETHING THAT WOULD OBVIATE THEM TO HAVE TO TEAR OUT A PORTION OF THAT AREA.
UM, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THE YARD, THE YARDS WERE SO TIGHT ANYWAY, AND NOT ONLY HAS THE NEIGHBOR CONSENTED TO IT BEING THERE, BUT THERE ALREADY WAS PAVEMENT UP TO THAT SAME POINT.
JUST THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND.
DO EITHER OF YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW OFFHAND? SO WE CALLED THE, THE, UH, TAMMY.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE CALLED THE, UH, DRIVEWAY A STRUCTURE.
WHEN IT EXTENDS BEYOND THAT FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE, IS THAT ALSO THE CASE WITH THE SIDEWALK? JUST AS, I MEAN, THIS IS KIND OF THE POINT JASON IS MAKING, BUT IS THAT, IS THAT CONSIDERED A STRUCTURE IF IT'S A SIDEWALK THAT EXTENDS BEYOND THE F FRONT FACADE? NO, I WOULD DIFFERENTIATE THE SECOND AS A DR THAT'S AN ACTUAL DRIVEWAY BASED ON THE DEFINITION THAT I HAD REPORTED TO YOU.
AND, AND I GUESS IT LOOKS MORE NARROW THAN A TYPICAL DRIVE.
I'M ASSUMING IT'S WIDE ENOUGH FOR A CAR TO FIT ON IT.
BUT IF IT WAS A LITTLE MORE NARROW AND A CAR, A REASONABLE CAR WOULDN'T FIT ON IT, THEN IT, IT WOULDN'T FIT THE DEFINITION OF A DRIVEWAY ANYMORE, I'M ASSUMING.
WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO, TO JASON'S POINT TO CLEARLY INDICATE THAT IT'S A DRIVEWAY THROUGH SAY A GATE, I MEAN, SORRY, THAT IT'S A WALKWAY THROUGH, SAY, A GATE WHERE A MOTORIZED VEHICLE COULDN'T PASS, THAT'LL DISRUPT THEIR IDEAS FOR THEIR LAWNMOWER.
BUT WOULD THAT KIND OF MAKE THAT POINT MOOT? I MEAN, I GUESS, LET ME BACK UP TO WHAT JASON WAS SAYING.
IF, IF, AT A MINIMUM, AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE SEPARATION BETWEEN PROPERTY LINES, SO LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
IF, IF AT A MINIMUM THE BOARD WERE TO WANT TO ENTERTAIN THIS, THE VARIANCE FOR THE SEPARATION, WHAT I MIGHT
[01:15:01]
RECOMMEND TO DISCOURAGE ANY TYPE OF PARKING OR MANEUVERABILITY IN THAT SPOT WOULD BE SOME SORT OF PERMANENT RETAINING WALL.BECAUSE MY, MY POINT IS, IF THE APPLICANT DOESN'T INTEND TO USE THAT AS A PARKING SPACE, OR EVEN A MANEUVERED, A MANEUVERABLE SPOT TO GET TO THE BACKYARD, THE NEXT PROPERTY OWNER MIGHT.
SO WE CAN'T, WE HAVE TO PLAN FOR LONGEVITY IN THESE PARTICULAR CASES.
SO I'M THINKING, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE, BUT IF WE DID LIKE A, YOU KNOW, A SMALL RETAINING WALL THAT WAS A COUPLE FEET IN, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD PREVENT A CAR FROM BEING, YOU KNOW, GOING TO AND FROM THAT SPACE, THAT MIGHT BE AN ACCEPTABLE, UH, ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.
UM, AGAIN, THE BOARD CAN APPROVE OR DENY, AND THEY CAN ALSO, YOU CAN ALSO ADD CONDITIONS.
SO THAT MIGHT BE, UM, SOMETHING YOU WOULD WANNA CONSIDER.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE CAN GET TO REALLY OUR DELIBERATION POINT UNTIL WE HAVE CLARITY ON, UM, WHETHER THERE WAS A PRIOR, I MEAN, I'VE LITERALLY SEARCHED FOUR YEARS OF CASES AS WE'RE SPEAKING, ALTHOUGH THE, THE GENTLEMAN'S NAME DOES SOUND FAMILIAR.
I LOOKED THROUGH, I STARTED IN 15 AND WENT ALL THE WAY TO 18, JUST A, A LITTLE BIT BEFORE, A LITTLE BIT AFTER.
UM, CAN, I WISH I KNEW FOR SURE WHAT, WHAT YEAR IT WAS.
UM, I CAN'T THINK I COULD GO HOME AND GET THE RECORDS, UH, EMAIL RECORDS AND STUFF LIKE THIS THAT I WENT THROUGH WITH.
UM, AND I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE PERSON ON THE, UM, STAFF THAT I WAS DEALING WITH AT THE TIME AS WELL.
BUT I CAN'T REMEM RECALL THAT IF, IF I SAID A NAME, WOULD IT, WOULD YOU RECOGNIZE A NAME? I MIGHT.
IT, CLAUDIA SOUNDS FAMILIAR, BUT I I, NO, I'M, I'M LOUSY AT, I'M LOUSY AT FACES AND NAMES.
UM, MAKE A QUICK POINT ON THAT.
SO CRITERIA B, WHICH IS WHERE SPECIAL PRIVILEGE WOULD FALL INTO, YOU NEED TWO OUT OF THOSE FOUR CRITERIA.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WHAT MR. MASON BRINK HAS DESCRIBED WOULD BE CONFERRING SPECIAL PRIVILEGES TO THE MILLERS.
BUT THAT WOULD BE ONE CRITERIA OF THE FOUR NOT MET.
AND I DO BELIEVE TWO OTHERS ARE MET.
SO I WONDER IF WE SHOULD DELIBERATE ON THAT BEFORE WE GO DOWN THAT ROAD.
YEAH, I'M NOT EVEN, I MEAN, FOR ME, I'M NOT CONSIDERING THOSE.
THE SECOND, UM, THEY'VE MET TWO, SO ON EACH OF THE VARIANCES.
SO I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A NON-DISCUSSION POINT FOR US.
BUT FOR, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT REASON I I READ THAT WOULD NOT CONFER ON THE APPLICANT BEING THE MILLER'S ANY SPECIAL PRIVILEGE.
IT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T OR DEPRIVE THE APPLICANT OF RIGHTS COMMONLY ENJOYED OR NOT DENYING THE APPLICANT OF ANY RIGHTS ENJOYED BY OTHERS WERE, UM, THE PUBLIC COMMENT WAS SAYING WE'D BE DE GRANTING A RIGHT.
SO I, I READ THAT COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY.
IT SAYS, WOULD NOT CONFER ON THE APPLICANT ANY SPECIAL PRIVILEGE.
IF THAT WAS A PRIVILEGE THAT WASN'T GRANTED TO MR. MASON BRINK, WOULDN'T IT BE SPECIAL? I, IF IT WAS, AND IT WAS THE EXACT SAME VARIANCES AND HOUSE AND LAYOUT AND EVERYTHING, I WOULD AGREE, BUT WITHOUT THAT, UM, FEELS MOOT.
BUT I AGREE WITH YOU, UH, MEMBER GARVIN, THAT THAT IS ONE OF THE, THE FOUR CRITERIA.
SO ACTUALLY DID, I HAD ONE, GO AHEAD.
UM, IT SAYS IT, IT WAS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD, THE ACTUAL, AT LEAST THIS CASE WAS TABLED, BUT IT IS YOUR APPLICATION 31, 31 68.
IT SAYS IT WAS TABLED, BUT IT DID, IT WAS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD AND POTENTIALLY TABLED IF IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS GONNA
[01:20:01]
RIGHT, RIGHT.THE PLANNER WOULD'VE BEEN MARIE MARIE DOWNEY.
DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? YEAH, YEAH.
FOR ME, WHERE, HOW IT WAS POTENTIALLY GOING TO COME OUT ISN'T, ISN'T RELEVANT, UM, THAT THEY TABLED.
AND FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, THAT'S WHERE I STAND ON THAT.
MY, I HAD ONE OTHER QUESTION FOR, UH, MS. NOBLE, CAN YOU REREAD THE DEFINITION OF DRIVEWAY AGAIN? I KNOW WE WENT BACK AND FORTH ON THAT A COUPLE TIMES.
THE ONE THAT HAD THE, THE PART ABOUT MOTION.
SO THE DEFINITION FOR DRIVEWAY, AND I'LL, I'LL READ THE TOTALITY OF THE DEFINITION, BUT IT'S A HARD PAVED SURFACE OF A LOT THAT IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED AND RESERVED FOR THE MOVEMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES TO AND FROM THE PUBLIC AND PRIVATE STREET.
THIS DEFINITION INCLUDES THE AREA FROM THE STREET PROVIDING ACCESS TO AND FROM A LOT AND ANY MANEUVERING AREAS.
AND IT SAID SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR, EXCUSE ME, AND THE BEGINNING OF THAT, IT SAID SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR, AND THEN IT WENT ON WITH WHAT YOU SAID SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR.
YOU KNOW, NOW WE'RE IN A POSITION HERE, WE CAN OBVIOUSLY ASK MORE QUESTIONS, BUT, UM, WHY DON'T WE SEE WHERE WE'RE AT? I, LET'S START WITH THE, UM, OR WE CAN DISCUSS 'EM ALL AT ONCE.
JOEL, THOUGH, WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR POSITION HERE ON, ON THESE FOR ME ON THAT LAST PART, SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR IS THE KEY COMPONENTS, THE, FOR ME, THE APPLICANT ISN'T SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATING THAT AREA FOR PARKING.
DO YOU MEAN THE SIDE, THE PORTION SIDES, THE SIDE PORTIONS.
SO THE, I'M, I'M OPEN TO THE OTHER MEMBER'S THOUGHTS AND BEING CONVINCED.
I CAME IN OF THE VIEW ON THE FIRST VARIANCE, YOU KNOW, I WAS LEANING TOWARDS, UM, APPROVING BASED ON TOTAL SIDE YARD MUST BE 20 FEET.
THAT'S MET IN TOTAL APPEARS TO BE 25 FEET.
AND THE SECOND PART WAS A MINIMUM OF EIGHT FEET ON ANY ONE SIDE WAS WHEN WE CLARIFIED IT.
AND SO THE LEFT SIDE HAS 21.1 FEET.
WE, WE COULD DISAGREE ON HOW WE INTERPRET THAT, BUT FOR ME, ONE OF THE, ANY ONE SIDE HAS 21 HAS MORE THAN EIGHT FEET.
AND SO WHEN I WORKED THROUGH CRITERIA A GIVEN, I ESSENTIALLY DISAGREE WITH THE NEED FOR THE VARIANCE THAT I'M COMFORTABLE APPROVING ON VARIANCE TWO, UH, AROUND THE 30 FEET.
I INTERPRET THIS DIFFERENTLY, DIFFERENTLY, UM, THAN THE DISCUSSION.
SO I LOOKED UP IN THE, THE CODE, THE DEFINITION OF STREET RIGHT OF WAY LINE, BECAUSE THAT FELT IMPORTANT FOR HOW WE DEFINE THE FEET.
AND SO THE CODE 1 53 0 0 2 EE DEFINES STREET RIGHT OF WAY, LINE AS A LINE THAT SEPARATES THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY FROM A CONTINUOUS PRO PROPERTY, WHICH IS PRETTY VAGUE.
AND SO I INTERPRET THAT AS THE LEFT WORD AND RIGHT WORD BOUNDS OF THE DRIVEWAY THAT TOUCH BELIEVE MARIE COURT.
AND SO I WON'T GO ON AND ON, BUT THAT LED ME TO, TO FEEL THAT THEY MET THAT REQUIREMENT.
AND SO WHEN I WENT ON IN THE CODE, WHEN I READ THAT PART, THAT'S WHERE I CAME UPON THE NO DRIVEWAY PAVEMENT SHALL BE PERMITTED TO EXTEND BEYOND THE FRONT FACADE, WHICH IS WHY I'D ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
AND THAT'S WHERE I WAS HUNG UP ON VARIANCE TOO, BECAUSE IT FELT LIKE IT DOES EXTEND BEYOND THE FACADE.
BUT THEN AS WE DIG INTO THE DEFINITION OF DRIVEWAY, AND YOU KNOW, THAT LANGUAGE ABOUT SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR MOTION, THE APPLICANT SAID, YOU KNOW, EVERY SIGNAL THE APPLICANT GAVE WAS THAT THEY DON'T INTEND TO BE USING THAT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT.
UM, SO LESS CONVINCED OTHERWISE.
I'M, AND I HEAR THE NEIGHBOR AND I'D BE FRUSTRATED IF I, IF I FELT THAT WAY TOO, BUT FOR THE REASONS I GAVE EARLIER, I, THAT'S NOT PART OF MY,
[01:25:02]
WHERE I LAND ON THIS.SO IT SOUNDS LIKE, JUST TO, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT YOU WOULD, UH, BE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING BOTH OF THE VARIANCE REQUESTS.
DAN, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE? I'LL WORK BACKWARDS A LITTLE BIT HERE.
UM, AS I ALLUDED TO BEFORE, I THINK CRITERIA BR MET, UM, JUST THROUGH THE SECOND AND THIRD CRITERIA.
UH, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY HINDRANCE TO GOVERNMENT SERVICES.
UM, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S ESPECIALLY REPEATABLE.
UH, I, I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD INDICATE A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE BEING GRANTED TO THE MILLERS THAT WASN'T GRANTED TO MR. MASON BRINK, POTENTIALLY AGAIN, WITHOUT AN ACTUAL HEARING.
UH, BUT THAT'S ONLY ONE OF THESE FOUR CRITERIA.
UH, WORKING BACK TO THE FIRST SET, WHICH, UH, ALL NEED TO BE MET.
I DO THINK THE FIRST CRITERIA IS MET.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD A CLOSER DRIVEWAY TO BEGIN WITH.
I REALIZE THE INTENT, WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO GRANDFATHER IN ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T MEET THE PLANNING.
UM, THE THIRD CRITERIA, UM, UM, KIND OF ON THE FENCE ON, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT, UM, THAT IT'S GONNA HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON OTHER PROPERTIES BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT AS THE PREVIOUS ONE.
UM, THE ONE, THE ONE THAT I'M HUNG UP ON HERE IS THE VARIANCE IS NOT NECESSITATED BECAUSE OF ACTION OR INACTION OF THE APPLICANT.
I GUESS MY THOUGHT IS YES, YOU KNOW, YOU ADDED THE FRONT LOADED GARAGE THAT IS YOUR ACTION, WHICH WOULD, UM, CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF A DRIVEWAY.
I DON'T THINK THAT THE PATH ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE GARAGE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A DRIVEWAY.
I THINK THAT IN PRACTICAL USAGE AND IN INTENT, UH, THAT'LL BE A WALKWAY, A PATHWAY.
SO, UM, WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO FOR ME IS THE 30 FOOT WIDTH AND WHETHER THAT WAS REQUIRED BY YOUR ACTION INTERACTION.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT A TURNABOUT FROM A SIDE LOADED GARAGE.
IT WAS A PROBABLY LESS OR SIMILAR CONCRETE SPACE WHEN YOU THINK OF WHAT WAS REPLACED BY THE STRUCTURE.
SO, UH, I'D BE INCLINED OVERALL TO APPROVE BOTH VARIANCES.
AND MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN I ADD SOMETHING AS I'M DOING RESEARCH? I APOLOGIZE.
I WOULDN'T INTERRUPT, OF COURSE, DELIBERATION.
UM, THERE WAS A VARIANCE APPLICATION BEFORE THE BOARD TO BE SPECIFIC.
IT WAS CASE 14 DASH OH FIVE ONE.
THE VARIANCE DID COME BEFORE THE BOARD, BUT IT WAS A DIFFERENT VARIANCE.
IT WAS BASICALLY, IT WAS FOR, UM, THE AMOUNT OF GARAGE DOOR WIDTH THAT YOU CAN HAVE FACING A ROAD.
SO THERE'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT YOU CAN HAVE, AND THEN IT HAS TO BE BROKEN UP.
YOU WERE BEFORE THE BOARD AND YOU WERE FOR A VARIANCE.
UH, AND IT WAS TABLED, BUT IT WAS FOR A DIFFERENT, UM, CODE SECTION.
SO THERE WAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONCRETE, THE DRIVEWAY.
IT WAS NOT, IT WAS THE, IT WAS THE FACADE OF THE GARAGE.
PATRICK, WHAT ARE YOU, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING HERE? UH, WELL, UH, I GUESS, UM, I'M SORT OF ECHOING SOME OF THE, UH, UH, SENTIMENTS ALREADY, UM, ALREADY, UH, GIVEN, UM, IN TERMS OF, UH, I GUESS THE, THE FIRST SET OF CRITERIA, UH, CRITERIA, A UNDER, UH, SECTION 1 53, 2 31 H TWO A.
UM, I, I, FOR THE, UM, I'D SAY FOR BOTH VARIANCES JUST GIVEN, GIVEN THE, UM, SORT OF THE PECULIAR NATURE OF THE LAND, THE WAY THAT THE, THE PROPERTY LINES HAVE, HAVE ABUTTED EACH OTHER.
AND, UH, GIVEN THAT A, UM, A NEW STRUCTURE FOR THE, UH, GARAGE DOORS OR THE GARAGE HAS BEEN, UH, WAS, WAS CONSTRUCTED AS PART OF A, A BROADER SORT OF, UM, NECESSARY RENOVATION PROJECT.
UM, I, I, I'M INCLINED TO SAY THAT, UM, UH, THERE WERE SOME SPECIAL CONDITIONS IN PLACE THAT, UH, THAT CALLED FOR THAT.
UM, AND, UH, IF THEY WERE NECESSARY, THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY, UM, UM, DUE TO ANY SORT OF ACTION, UH, OR INACTION ON, ON YOUR PART, UH, YOU'RE ACTUALLY IMPROVING THE PROPERTY, UH, MAKING IT MORE LIVABLE, MORE HABITABLE FOR YOU, UM, BY MAKING RENOVATIONS OF, OF THAT NATURE.
AND, UH, YOU KNOWS, THERE'S SOME ANCILLARY THINGS THAT, UH, UH, BRANCH OFF FROM THAT AS WELL.
AND, UH, SO THIS IS SORT OF WHERE WE ARE, UH,
[01:30:01]
IN TERMS OF THAT.UM, IN TERMS OF, UH, GRANTING THE VARIANCE FOR CAUSE SUBSTANTIALLY ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE PROPERTY.
I, I, FOR REASONS STATED, I THINK, UH, THERE WERE IMPROVEMENTS MADE ON THE PROPERTY, UM, DUE TO, DUE TO BOTH.
UM, SO I MEAN, THAT'S SORT OF WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE A YES FOR BOTH OF THE VARIANCES.
YOU KNOW WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT THE ONLY REASON WE'RE HERE TODAY IS BECAUSE YOU MADE A MISTAKE.
SO HOW I'M FRAMING THIS IN MY MIND IS IF YOU WERE USING DAVE FOX OR THE CONCRETE CONTRACTOR ANNUITY WAS DOING, AND YOU WERE GONNA MAKE A VARIANCE REQUEST, CUZ YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE TO THIS BOARD, WHAT WOULD BE, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE WORKED WITH STAFF AND WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE COME HERE TO ASK? REALLY, THE TURNAROUND, PROBABLY YOU WOULD'VE WANTED, I WOULD THINK, UH, AND IF STAFF SAID, YOU CAN ONLY HAVE A SMALL PATH AROUND THE HOUSE, YOU PROBABLY WOULD'VE SAID FINE TO COMPLY WITH CODE, AND YOU WOULD'VE PROBABLY COME HERE.
AND AT LEAST I, I THINK YOU WOULD.
AND IF YOU WANT TO CONFIRM, YOU CAN, IF YOU WANT TO COME UP AND HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ME, BUT I'M THINKING IN MY MIND, YOU'RE REALLY GONNA WANT THAT, THAT TURNAROUND IN THE FRONT BECAUSE IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO, TO BACK OUT.
UM, AS IT AS IT STANDS, I'M JUST, I'M JUST NOT CERTAIN, UM, THAT YOU'RE MEETING THE CRITERIA, UH, ON ALL THESE.
I, I THINK I CAN, I CAN GET, AND THIS IS FOR EVERYBODY ELSE TOO, IF YOU WANT TO DISAGREE WITH ME.
I THINK SPECIAL CONDITION PROBABLY EXISTS FOR THE TURNAROUND, UH, BASED ON THE FACT THAT HE'S SO CLOSE TO THE NEIGHBORING YARD.
THE PATH THOUGH, I'M, I, I JUST CAN'T GET THERE.
I I, I REALLY AGREE WITH WHAT TAMMY SAID.
WE'RE THINKING NEXT HOMEOWNER.
I KNOW THEIR INTENT IS NOT TO USE IT FOR CERTAIN THINGS.
UM, I'D BE OF THE POSITION THAT WE WOULD NEED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF PERMANENT STRUCTURE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT PATH, UH, FOR ME TO GET TO A YES ON, ON THAT ONE.
BUT I'M JUST, I'M STRUGGLING ON THIS FIRST ONE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT HIM TO TEAR DOWN ANYTHING AT THE SAME TIME.
YOU'RE ASKING US TO PROVE A VARIANCE.
BUT THIS COULD MATERIALLY IMPAIR, UH, THE SUBSEQUENT, UM, MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE BECAUSE PEOPLE COULD SAY, OH, I SPENT 50,000, 75,000, A HUNDRED THOUSAND ON X OUT OF COMPLIANCE.
AND THEN YOU'RE COMING HERE TO SAY, OH, I, I MADE A MISTAKE.
IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, YOU, YOU DO HAVE A RECOVERY HERE, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR CONTRACT IS WITH YOUR CONCRETE CONTRACTOR.
MAYBE YOU DIDN'T SIGN ONE THAT'S PROBABLY ON YOU, MAYBE IT DID, AND YOU HAVE A REMEDY WITH HIM OR WHATEVER COMPANY THAT IS.
SO THIS IS FOR ME, I'M JUST, I'M JUST NOT CERTAIN I CAN GET THERE.
UM, I'M CLOSER ON THE TURNAROUND, BUT I DON'T KNOW.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M SAYING HERE? I THINK MY OPINION HINGED ON THAT BEING A PATHWAY THAT'S NOT A DRIVEWAY.
UM, UH, SO I, I MEAN I, IF THERE'S A REASONABLE PERMANENT STRUCTURE THAT CAN MAKE THAT CLEAR, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT.
I'M STILL IN THE SAME PLACE BASED ON, I, YOU KNOW, SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR APPLICANT FELT EVERY SIGNAL THEY GAVE WAS THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, DON'T INTEND TO, TO PARK THERE.
UM, BUT IT DOES HINGE ON THAT, THAT ASSUMPTION FOR THAT PART.
SO BASED ON THE DEFINITION OF DR, I JUST INTERPRET THE DEFINITION OF DRIVEWAY DIFFERENTLY ON THAT.
I THINK THE APPLICANT, THE ALTERNATIVE IS THE APPLICANT COULD BACK OUTTA THEIR DRIVEWAY, INTO THEIR FRONT YARD,
[01:35:01]
MAKE IT, TEAR IT APART, AND THEN PULL OUT OF THEIR DRIVEWAY EVERY DAY.AND I'M NOT SURE THAT'S THE INTENT OF THE, THE CODE EITHER, BUT THEY, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BACK OUT OF THEIR DRIVEWAY, TEAR APART THEIR YARD, AND MAKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOOK NOT AS NICE AND THEN PULL OUT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S MY STRUGGLE.
PATRICK, ARE YOU STILL GOOD WITH BOTH? UH, JUST TO FOLLOW UP, SO YOU'RE IMPLYING THAT, UH, THE PRESENCE OF CONCRETE, UM, ON THE, UH, PROPERTY WOULD, UH, INHIBIT THEM FROM, OR, OR IT WOULD, UH, THE LACK OF, UH, CONCRETE WOULD, UM, IN SOME WAY LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.
UM, I, I GUESS IN TERMS OF, OF, OF THE WALKWAY ITSELF, UM, MAYBE THERE'S A QUESTION IN TERMS OF, UM, UH, TIME AND TIME AND PLACE.
UH, SO ESSENTIALLY JUST SO FOR, FOR CLARITY, UM, THE, THE WALKWAY, THE PATHWAY IS IN PLACE BECAUSE, OR HAD THEY HAD THE, THE PULLOUT STRUCTURE OF THE SIDE GARAGE AS THEY, AS THEY HAD BEFORE, WOULD THAT THE STRUCTURE AS IT IS, WOULD BE FINE.
IT'S DUE TO THE CHANGE OF THE DEFINITION IS THE YES.
IF THEY HAD THE SIDE LOAD GARAGE, THEN THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED DRIVEWAY AND THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A THREE FOOT SETBACK.
UM, AND THEY HAVE 3.9 FEET, UH, BETWEEN THEIR PROPERTY LINE AND THE CONCRETE.
SO HAD THEY CHANGED THE CONCRETE FIRST AND THEN DECIDED TO MAKE IT A, UH, FRONT FACING GARAGE THEN RATHER THAN A SIDE GARAGE? WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS POSITION.
IT WOULD BE SORT OF GLOBAL SETTING.
UH, I THINK, UH, IF, UH, THAT MIGHT HINGE ON PERHAPS THE CONCRETE GUY GETTING THERE ON A CERTAIN DAY, UM, EARLIER THAN, UH, SOMEBODY WHO WOULD LIKE, BUILD A, A STRUCTURE, UH, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT, UH, SORT OF, UH, I DON'T KNOW, UH, TRIVIALIZES THE, UM, THE ORDER OF, UH, OPERATIONS HERE.
SO I, I THINK THAT IT'S SORT OF ARBITRARY, UM, CONSIDERING HOW THE STRUCTURE, UH, WE, WE WOULD BE HAVING TO DO AN EXAMINATION OF LIKE THE, UM, UH, TIME AND PLACE OF CERTAIN, UM, IMPROVEMENTS ON THE LAND, UH, WHAT OCCURRED WHEN, WITH RESPECT TO WHAT OCCURRED PREVIOUSLY OR WHAT OCCURRED NEXT.
SO, UM, TO ME, I THINK THAT'S A, A FAIRLY, UH, PERSUASIVE POINT WITH, UH, UM, IN DEFENSE OF THE, UH, THE WALKWAY.
JOEL, YOU'RE GOOD FOR BOTH? YES.
ARE YOU GOOD FOR BOTH? MM-HMM.
I DON'T REQUIRE ANY CONDITIONS.
COULD I MAKE A MOTION? YOU CAN, YOU CAN, YOU CAN READ THOSE MOTIONS AND, UM, WE CAN GO AHEAD FOR A VOTE.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE A NON-USE I AREA VARIANCE TO ZONING CODE 1 53 0 2 1 C3 TO PERMIT A 3.9 FOOT SETBACK FOR THE CONCRETE PAD AND THE SIDE YARD.
UM, DID THAT INCLUDE BOTH MO, BOTH VARIANCES? I THINK WE'RE JUST DOING THE ONE FIRST.
JOEL, DO YOU WANT TO SET IT UP FOR THE SECOND ONE? I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE A NON-USE AREA VARIANCE TO ZONING CODE 1 53 2 10 B FOUR A TO PERMIT A 49 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY BETWEEN THE RIGHT OF WAY, LINE, AND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE GARAGE.
THEY HAVE PASSED BOTH OF THEM.
UM, SO THANK YOU FOR COMING FOR THE BOARD.
[COMMUNICATIONS]
COMMUNICATIONS, TAMMY? WE DO.UM, IF THE BOARD REMEMBERS SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, WE HAD SEVERAL CASES THAT WERE RELATED TO SOLAR ENERGY, SPECIFICALLY, UH, SOLAR PANELS ON RESIDENTIAL HOMES.
UM, THE CITY HAD WENT THROUGH SOME LENGTHY DISCUSSIONS, SURVEYS, PUBLIC MEETINGS, AND CITY COUNCIL
[01:40:01]
ACTUALLY ACTED ON A CODE MODIFICATION THAT PERMITS IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES PERMITS, UM, SOLAR PANELS ON RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES IN ALL LOCATIONS OF A PROPERTY.UM, AGAIN, THERE ARE SOME REQUIREMENTS, SOME AESTHETIC REQUIREMENTS.
SO WE HAVE IN TURN REACHED OUT TO ALL OF THE APPLICANTS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY PENDING, UM, ACTION BEFORE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT CODE REQUIRES AND TO LET THEM, UH, AND THEIR CONTRACTORS IDENTIFY IF THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CODE.
IT'S, UH, CITY COUNCIL TO TAKE AN ACTION ON JUNE 12TH.
UM, THE ACTION TAKES EFFECT 30 DAYS BEYOND THAT ADOPTION.
SO JULY 12TH IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE.
SO WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH THE THREE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY BEFORE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TO ATTEMPT TO IDENTIFY WHETHER THEY NEED TO PROCEED TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS OR IF THEY WOULD, UH, REMOVE THEIR APPLICATIONS, UH, FROM THE BOARD.
SO WE'LL KEEP YOU POSTED, UM, TO THAT.
UM, THE SECOND POINT OF INFORMATION IS JUST OUR COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE.
WE JUST, UM, FINISHED OUR SECOND MAJOR PUBLIC MEETING, A VISIONING SESSION THAT TOOK PLACE AT THE OHIO UNIVERSITY THAT WAS LAST WEEK.
WE HAD A GREAT TURNOUT AND WE HAD GOOD FEEDBACK.
UM, THERE'S STILL IS A SURVEY, SO IF YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE SURVEY, WE REALLY WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR ASSISTANCE AND WE'LL KEEP YOU POSTED AS PUBLIC MEETINGS CONTINUE TO OCCUR WITH THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
REAL QUICK WITH REGARD TO THE SOLAR PANEL CO OR THE SOLAR PANELING CODE OR WHAT HAVE YOU, IN THE EVENT SOMEBODY WANTS TO PROPOSE SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF WHAT IS PERMITTED ON THE CODE AND NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE CITY HAVE BROKEN DOWN WITH THE APPLICANT, IS THEIR FORUM TO CHALLENGE THAT CODE? THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
SO IF, SO THEY HAVE TWO ROUTES.
IF THEY WERE TO, UM, IF FOR SOME REASON IN OUR CONVERSATIONS FEEL LIKE WE'RE MISINTERPRETING THAT CODE, THEY COULD APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
IF THEY SIMPLY COULDN'T OR DIDN'T MEET A REQUIREMENT, THEY COULD COME HERE AS A NON-USE VARIANT.
SO THIS IS STILL THEIR AVENUE, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY, FOR RELIEF? UM, ALTHOUGH I'VE WORKED THROUGH TWO OF THE THREE CONTRACTORS AND I'M RELATIVELY CERTAIN THAT WE CAN, UM, APPROVE THE PROPOSALS THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY HAVE IN PLACE.
UH, I DO, I HAVE NOT HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE THIRD OF THE YOU MEAN APPROVE THE CITY APPROVES, SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO PRESENT.
UH, HOW ARE WE LOOKING FOR, DO WE HAVE A MEETING IN JULY OR IS THAT, UH, HOW ARE WE LOOKING? DO WE HAVE ANY APPLICATIONS FOR JULY? UH, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY CURRENTLY.
WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD BE AUGUST THEN.
WELL, IF THERE'S NO OTHER BUSINESS, UH, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.